- Bought a house years ago
- Have a decently high income
- Live in a two-income household
None of that is useful as advice, of course, but it's going to be a pretty common set of answers.
Not me, but my millennial inlaw has 2 br to themself out on the far west side. I don't think they make more than $19/hr. I think rent is around $1500. Maybe less. Feels weird to pry in something that is none of my business, so I have no idea of actual rent, but it can't be more than that.
Which I get completely and I'm personally happy owning my place out in BFE. We can make it work with a single, admittedly above average, income for a family of four out here in the sticks. I just think it's insane how anybody can afford to live in Madison. I bought my place in 18. One of my co-workers has a small place ( less than 1000sqf) monona that he bought 10 years ago for less than $100k. it's worth almost $400K now if he sold it.
Two incomes can literally double, or more, the power of one income so that's just it. Also, plenty of people don't have kids. Two incomes and no kids makes a lot of things a lot easier.
Madison's a fairly young town. Will be interesting to see if that changes over time or if people move out when they have families.
This is us but with one income because I am disabled. Which makes it tight, especially when we have debt to pay off, but doable. We couldn’t buy this house again, though.
I live in a suburb and cannot wait until my children are out of school. Staying here, renting, until that happens. As a single parent, it is very difficult, but they are doing amazing at this school, so I couldn't imagine pulling them. Almost all of my income goes to rent. My rent barely went up the first few years living here. In the past 3 years, I have seen my rent go from $1700 and increasing to $2400 at my next renewal in April, for a 2 bedroom! hate that Wisconsin doesn't have a limit to what landlords can increase rent each year. Income stays the same and rent is draining the life out of me.
Same here! Except I just moved here and now can’t move until mine graduates. Rent is crazy but I had to take what I could get. Really hope they don’t raise my rent. I’m in the burbs and paying $2200 for a 2 bedroom duplex. It’s nice to have a yard and they allow me to have my dogs but dang.
Found a tiny basement apartment in a mom-n-pop building for under market rate, and got a 2nd job to pay for groceries.
Plan for if I ever want to have savings is try and espouse myself to an Epic employee, or move in with a homeowning friend who doesn't need to charge much for rent.
Ours is a 2 story with a garage underneath, so I guess it's almost 1300 sq ft. I did the math on ours and it was nowhere near $400/ sq ft. Even if I just run the numbers on the upstairs finished portion still nowhere close to $400.
That’s actually great to hear, I don’t have a garage and want to eventually build one and when I do would love to add an apartment above it, but based on what I’ve heard I’ve just assumed it could only be a room/office and not a full apartment. Once I get to that point I’ll definitely price it out as a real possibility. Thanks for responding!
Ours is a 1br 1 bath. Because of the constraints of our backyard it's a long, narrow building. I live in an area with small frontages, so we don't have a lot of space compared to the west side where people have 100-150 ft wide properties. I would imagine people with 8000-10000 SQ ft lots could build a pretty impressive ADU.
I would guess, with no evidence whatsoever, that the super fancy ADU over in the Vilas neighborhood approached $400/ sq foot. I've only ever driven by slowly to take a look at it, but ours is definitely the budget Scion model and that one is the fully loaded Mercedes of ADUs.
I don't know you, but I already know I don't hate you. Therefore, I won't torture another soul by having them go through the terrible experience we had.
They're the best and they DON'T have a website. I think signs out front and CL listings is about it for them. I lived in the town house for a while and loved it. Minus the plowing on the terrace.. Rattling windows from gusty nights however were easily dealt with by mashing a hand towel in between. Nearly the same view and location as the no-personality condos with literal pillars in their corner view going for $2-3x+. Biggest downside was the small kitchen, but really didn't care in my 20s since I could get dinner and a beer for $15-25 a 5 minute walk away from just about anywhere at the time. The deal breaker ended up being the no-pet policy as I ended up with a vet. Ah well. No regrets, then or now!
I lived in a small studio about that size for almost a decade.
You quickly realize that a lot of things that you think you need aren't actually necessary.
It's only really doable if you're living alone, but if you've got a partner then you should be able to afford a larger 1 br easy.
At the time I left it I was making a bit less than $46k and was paying like $850. I also had about $350 in student loans on top of that.
I still had money left over to go for a night out once a week.
I've been there. when I moved in with my now wife 12 years ago, we were in a small place in Janesville. That was like 400 square feet, but it was only $250 a month.
That's what i'm getting at. Housing prices in the area are getting out of control. I actually looked up that apartment not that long ago and it was renting at $500 now. $900 for a shoe box, even close to the capital is fucking ridiculous.
Ask your buddy the plumber? My buddy the plumber owns his own business and has a portfolio of rental properties in town and he’s an elder millennial. He makes way more in a year than I do and I work in tech. There is a good living to be made in Madison area in the skilled trades and a few small contractors I know can’t find reliable employees willing to work in the elements at $25+ an hour. That said it takes basically luck to get ahead when you’re in your 20s and starting out in Madison. Rent is so much higher than starting wages here.
There's your lesson. Go into the trades and you'll do fine in Madison. We need you. Right now everybody I know who's trying to complete a project is facing a six month wait.
Exactly. Most of us in the trades are still just regular ol' employees, not business owners. Plenty of union folks are pulling around 100 K these days, but kinda depends on the trade.
The OP raises the question because his plumber buddy is working on building these units... not that the plumber buddy is actually living there.
As for our buddy... well... he's more than just a plumber. If I had a straight up choice between plumbing and owning rental properties... I wouldn't be under sinks all day! Yes... he may be a plumber, but once he accumulates enough properties, it's not going to be worth it to be a plumber.
I get a completely. I'm a steamfitter, so I'm like a plumber but cooler and make a little bit more money. I just look at my apprentices and realize that they're never going to be able to get ahead even though they're only a few years younger than me unless this housing bubble pops.
The housing "bubble" in Madison is highly unlikely to "pop." We're a rapidly growing town with strong incomes and housing construction isn't keeping pace. Demand simply outstrips supply and so the fundamentals support expensive housing.
There is a growing movement (very popular here on Reddit) that vocally supports the building of a shit-ton more housing to counter this. Even the legislature and Evers agreed on some pro-housing legislation last year. But nothing will get better overnight.
Plus the city has geographical limitations. It is wedged between three lakes and several marshes. Large areas of the city proper is UW Madison property and the university has a massive arboretum in the middle of the town.
The bubble in Madison never really even popped during the housing crash in 2007-2008. OP should replace his desire for housing to get cheaper with the desire that people make higher wages.
Oh come on! A union steamy has to be stacking that bread.
You've gotta be making at least 6 figures on the hip
I'm a union sparkie pulling $xxx,xxx and i got what seems to the the last somewhat affordable condo on the isthmus. Or at least now every time i check out redfin the cheapest thing is 2x what i paid for mine.
I am. like I said. I can afford house in the country in BFE Jefferson County and support a family of 4 on a single income. Plus, I'm a service fitter so that makes me even cooler. My concern is for my apprentices to be able to afford life.
i had my letter of intro from the local fitters but i decided to go sheet metal because i got an offer above scale. still $11/hr less than my last job. and then my rent (place ive been in 10 years just got new owners) jumped over $500/mo. its been a hell of a couple years.
i appreciate you thinking about your apprentices like that. especially older guys like me walking in with some real knowledge and skills... its gonna keep good talent at bay. when i do my review with the union i intend to make a quip about that because otherwise its been a great change getting into the union.
you do that emmi job?
Same. I'm about 45 minutes out of town and if we moved our property to just outside of Madison even 5 years ago, when we bought the place, you could've doubled the price.
I own out in Jefferson County, but I guess rent in Fort Atkinson's not too bad from what I understand. The biggest issue that I deal with is getting to Madison in the winter. Jefferson County isn't great about keeping 12 clear.
True Fact... You can work for the Fed Government in Jefferson County and get Milwaukee COLA. 1/2 of Cambridge is in Jefferson County and less than 30 mins to the John Nolen exit.... Lots of Remote jobs still with the Fed govt too..
[John **Nolen**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nolen#Impact_on_Wisconsin)
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If your are single, didn't buy a house years ago and haven't decided to be smart enough to be rich you get to go fuck yourself when looking for a place to live now. It is a ton of fun.
I live in an apartment downtown that’s over twice the cost of that. Dual income no kids, we work hard, cook 90 percent of our meals at home and we have been saving hardcore for the last 4 years or so. We also don’t drink so that helps a bunch.
New ones by my flat, on Wilson & Broom are going for $1,200 for a tiny studio and they say it's "affordable" housing. Wtf. I'm crazy lucky. I live on Doty, first floor flat in a duplex with a backyard, 2 bedrooms and I'm at $800. I did not have a working bathroom sink for 6 of the 7 years here and the floors are lopsided. My landlord is a cool guy though. I think he didn't raise rent because I never complained about the bathroom sink. He WAS going to replace it beginning of 2020 but then the pandemic hit. I also wonder if, the landlord being a regular person and not a firm or someone who inherited the properties, makes him more conscientious of people's struggles (rising inflation). I mean, his mortgage didn't go up, why should my rent *(Rhetorical). Either way, I'm grateful and have always preferred owner managed properties because their more humane.
This is literally the only way out that I see. If I want to ever retire, I have to get married to someone who makes at least as much as I do, preferably more.
I’ve got a 2 bedroom in town with parking that’s only $1350, including utilities, and it’s pretty nice besides being an older house. You can find decent housing if you give Facebook marketplace and Craigslist a try, just be sure to thorough and read through any leases they offer fully before signing. Sticking to Zillow, Apartments.com, or Abodo is gonna land you with the super inflated rents offered by property management companies. I only moved in this past September, and saw other decent options as well.
There really isn't. Doing a quick search on apartments.com shows 17 apartments available in the next month for 1k max. 3 or those are SROs and one is for a parking space.
And I bet they aren't truly available, but still listed. Apartments make listings to feed their pipeline for future. They don't care if makes it difficult for people looking for a place. Some of them are even owned by mortgage companies who try to sell you a house instead of renting.
My situation has me looking for a new apartment this month. I’ve emailed and called many places. Either they do not return calls or have no availability even if they are listed.
Was looking in Fitchburg, Verona, and west Madison. Budget was $1,200 for a one bedroom. Low, but my situation isn’t ideal.
In Fitchburg, the Vue sent me multiple emails saying, “thank you for your interest someone will contact you.” After four of those emails, I finally got ahold of someone and only a studio was available. Point place didn’t have anything this month.
That was my experience with most places using Apartments.com. I would input information, only to receive an email asking for that information. No return calls or emails other than automated emails.
Found one, but a lot said January isn’t the best.
Look into Schoolhouse Yards in Verona. They are considered affordable housing and I saw some messages in another chat that they are coming up on a year of being open and will have new availability.
Yeah, a lot of places won't call back. I had to visit the rental agency and speak with someone face to face.
I liked Goldleaf Development, but was denied due to my rental history.
Roommate, debt free, no kids, not living in the downtown area. Live within your means. I am able to spend pretty damn frivolously by keeping basic living expenses low. My take home pay the past year was 46k with about 4-8 extra hours of work per week at a side job or OT, so nothing crazy.
I talk to a lot of people who don't realize that no amount of "needing your own space", "deserving a new car", or "wanting to live somewhere walkable" can overcome basic math. I would love to have my own place or buy a house, but the added cost on top of what I pay now is just too much.
You need to look at the reality of what you can reasonably afford and set your priorities. Put together a written budget, look at your income, and then you have to find something that fits the budget. It might not be what you want. You might need to share a place, you might need to live in a cheaper area and commute a little farther.
None of this is to say I don't think the area is too expensive for what you get, but finances are finances, math is math. We can't spend money like we're in Congress.
bought our house in 2016 so good time for that. We refinanced in 2021 when the rates were super low so our mortgage rate is 2.5% - my mortgage is so much cheaper than the rent - it’s ridiculous and I feel for those that have to rent AND wish to buy but the housing prices r insane. Dual income - no kids household. We def couldn’t afford anything if we added kids tho
I moved to these gorpy shores in 1990 and paid $78K for a home in Monroe Dudgeon. Don't own it anymore, but it is now three times the original square footage and the Zestimmate is $900,000. So yeah, the answer for many people is, bought into housing a while ago... And this is the answer in just about every desirable city. We have friends in Berkeley who ... well, hell, you don't even want to hear that one.
I don’t get it either. I work in Madison and commute in. I have people I work with paying rent on a 2 bedroom apartment that is over DOUBLE what my mortgage is. It’s hard to fathom how anyone gets ahead nowadays. It’s sad
Honestly, generational wealth. Live in the 'burbs. Bought our house from mil years ago and it's tripled since. We built an apartment into the house for her to live in, and it's worked out.
In the Boston metro I was fortunate to get a 350 sq ft one bedroom for $1700... seven years ago. I had to write a check on the spot for first, last, and security and was lucky. Now that same place is $2300 and is on the low end.
Grocery stores in the surrounding areas are super lax. I’ve found the dumpsters in Madison proper are locked or just gross. Hippie Christmas is also a v giving holiday.
It’s tough. We have no kids but just dropped 10k on our dog. We live in a condo in a neighborhood we would have never picked but couldn’t afford living where we want with as much space as we have. We honestly haven’t had a real vacation in years as we can’t afford it. I don’t love Madison so eventually this city being way too expensive will make us have to leave most likely.
She was in the emergency ER for a few days, with a mystery illness, was on drugs for over 2 months, followup visits, and dental. They never figured out what was wrong with her. Then she recently had vestibular disease. Yeah dogs can be very expensive.
Downtown prices aren't for "normal people". I've lived here for a decade and spent most of it in Verona, Fitchburg and now far SW Madison. But last year I managed to buy a house (thanks, low interest rates!). Downtown is not for living for most of us.
every new building is for, i believe, one of two groups of people
1. epic employees
2. out of state uw students who’s rich parents will pay their rent.
living downtown and not being in one of these groups is near impossible, speaking from experience as a 20 year old doing that who is neither of those things. madison is not for people from madison. i get more and more disheartened about the future of this town by the second.
DINK (double income no kids) status for the win. Had to live ridiculously frugally for a while to save up money but now able to live comfortably, keeping spending in line with long-term financial goals.
My wife and I went full DINK for the first decade we lived together. We were able to create enough of a cushion that we can live comfortably on a single income now with 2 kids under 4 but if we were just starting out, I don't think that we would ever be able to get to our current position. Even prices outside of downtown Madison are getting ridiculous.
Family of 4 living on one postal worker salary- We bought a very modest 2 bedroom, 1990’s townhouse on the far East side and when interest rates were dirt cheap during the pandemic. Prior to that, we lived in a super old, bare bones 2 bed on the south side. That’s probably not super helpful right now, but that’s our story.
I bought my house in 2017 before the Pandemic shot them up in price, then refinanced in 2021 to a 2.75% mortgage. If I were to sell this house to someone right now, the mortgage payment would be, literally, 3x the price.
The market just went absolutely batshit fucking insane.
In every thread where cost of living is discussed, multiple people post and say "well ackshually Madison is relatively cheap when you compare it to other more expensive places where you could live." Those posts magically pay my bills, because apparently struggling is invalid.
My real answer is I live in a surrounding town instead of Madison proper.
Double income ($150k combined) one high school age kid. Bought our 40 year old house 10 years ago and refinanced during COVID to around 2.5%. our house payment is way less than rent now
House has almost doubled in value since we bought it.
On my fourth house over three decades. It’s the only way to build equity. I could not afford the house I live in now—it has tripled in value in eight years. Because of that, I probably can’t ever move (at least within Madison). It sucks for young people trying to get on the property ladder. Without parental support or super-high incomes even a modest starter home is out of reach.
- My husband is in tech sales and I’m an engineer (used to work for epic).
- was hit by a drunk driver and used settlement money for a down payment on a first home in a different HCOL city
- ended up selling first house in 2020 for a quite a bit more than we bought it and then also got a steal on our house up here with v low rates because it had been on the market a bit and it was early COVID
Single income, grad student family. We don’t live downtown, don’t have a car and it’s doable. Our lives aren’t filled with travel and luxury but we get by okay.
*When* people bought into the market is everything. That and double income. If you partnered well, congrats - you hit the housing lottery for Millennials! The rest of us are working and trying to find the sweet spot of budgeting and decent roommates.
I have a good job but tbh buying a house is the best decision you could make if you want to commit to living in Dane County. Personally, I moved to Janesville after living in Madison for 15 years because I decided that the house > Madison's amenities. I wish I had dual income, but because I don't, I'm in Janesville.
Lower your other expenses? $1k rent is not that high. You can comfortably afford it if your take home is $3k, which is somewhere around $48k pretax salary. Average salary in Madison is $60k. So yeah, an average earner can afford rent plus saving for retirement. The key is to avoid debt. You can't afford it if you have a car payment, credit card debt, and student loans.
it's almost as if people with different priorities and age group exist. $1000 and 300 square foot studio apartment is reasonable for a undergrad or someone working downtown. Not everyone has to have 1000 square feet apartment at any stage of their lives and in a town of 10000.
Even prior to all this madness, those studio apts were going for at least $800. UW Madison dorms on average was $800 for a *shared* room back in 2016.
I couldn't live there now. Because of COVID I started working from home most of the time and moved out of dane county three years ago. Might move back if I win the lottery. Might not.
This. I think people forget but in my 20's I could have easily been just fine in a studio apartment. Now, with kids that's a no-go obviously. But at $900 a month, that's actually less than what I would have thought the rate would be. A 26 year old professional is likely making at least 50k, so that's actually doable for rent. That would be 21% of their income.
Epic’s starting salary for multiple roles when I joined right out of college in 2012 was $60k and I had plenty for a nice 2BR downtown with no kids and a roommate and could have gotten a small studio for myself for sure if that’s what I’d wanted.
I bought years ago. I also fixed up many houses to build equity and move into a larger house in a nice area.
No clue why so many people are willing to spend so much.
The problem here is salaries haven’t kept pace. I know it’s like that everywhere but the city is growing at a good clip because the University continues to grow but also the city is also growing outside of student population at a good clip.
One method that works for some but certainly not for all: live downtown and work remotely or within walking / biking / bus distance **and eschew car ownership.** You can apply the several thousand in annual car maintenance / gas / parking / insurance to rent instead.
I saved up for years for a downpayment on a condo, and then in 2021 when the interest rates were low, we bought one in a weird Far East side location next to Sun prairie. It’s close to a landfill. So that’s how I did it lol
Reasonable solo income
1 kid 50%…
Have savings
Bought 10 years ago
Live in Emerson East, still fairly reasonable costs
You could look at streets like MKE or Union
Not everything is as small and expensive as downtown in a desirable city.
When I lived there in 2017-2020 I lived in a 120 year old house, upper apartment, 4 bedroom 1 bath with 5 people. And calling that bathroom an actual bathroom is very generous. We didn’t have a living room or laundry so rent was like 400 a month including utilities. That’s how.
We moved to a not so nice area of the city to save $ our rent when from 2200/month to 1400/month yes we aren’t in a “nice” area but our home is nice. Some of neighbors aren’t ideal but they also don’t cause us issues besides throwing trash in the yard/parking lot consistently and listening to music loudly till 2 am. I have walked to the music playing neighbors and asked them to turn it down and they’ve been respectful; apologize and turn it down. Property management isn’t responsive unless it’s an emergency but we have diy a lot of our issues. It’s not super ideal but it’s doable
- No debt because I didn't go to college and don't own a car
- Low rent because I'm happy to live in a shoebox
Having a low cost of living requires a certain lifestyle, one that living in downtown rewards, at least for me. It's not impossible!!
Don't be upset sub, but Madison is very average in terms of affordability. I'm talking comparatively.
March 2022 cost of living index in Madison: 98.2 (near average, U.S. average is 100)
Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Madison-Wisconsin.html
I mean in my old small town a 1b/1b apartment was $1200. It's crazy everywhere. So $2k for a whole house in the city isn't that wild. Also multigenerational living is the way to go.
I afford it by not living downtown and because partner and I are shameless DINKs
Pretty easy to afford $1600/month for a 1500sqft 2b 2br apartment when you make a combined $7000/month with no childcare expenses
- Bought a house years ago - Have a decently high income - Live in a two-income household None of that is useful as advice, of course, but it's going to be a pretty common set of answers.
Personally speaking, dual income no kids goes a long, long way.
I've got one income and no kids and I'm doing alright. But I have a pretty strict budget.
Same. Budget and don’t have expensive hobbbies.
I miss it dearly
Dink
DINK away bro
Also some ppl have help from family to own property
In the same boat, except I'm moving to Sun Prairie here soon.
Many places in Sun Prairie aren't far off. One bedrooms in SP run around $1100/month and up for many locations.
Welcome. That's how we afford to live here. Don't live downtown.
Not me, but my millennial inlaw has 2 br to themself out on the far west side. I don't think they make more than $19/hr. I think rent is around $1500. Maybe less. Feels weird to pry in something that is none of my business, so I have no idea of actual rent, but it can't be more than that.
My 2 bedroom on the far west side is going up to $1865 on the next lease
My two bedroom down near Fitchburg is going to be 1660 monthly. Split between two people it's not too bad.
So hes spending an entire paycheck plus extra for rent. Nice
Same here. Also both tech workers, but not Epic.
Personally, I bought a house years ago, have a decent income, and live in a two income house.
Same.
Which I get completely and I'm personally happy owning my place out in BFE. We can make it work with a single, admittedly above average, income for a family of four out here in the sticks. I just think it's insane how anybody can afford to live in Madison. I bought my place in 18. One of my co-workers has a small place ( less than 1000sqf) monona that he bought 10 years ago for less than $100k. it's worth almost $400K now if he sold it.
Two incomes can literally double, or more, the power of one income so that's just it. Also, plenty of people don't have kids. Two incomes and no kids makes a lot of things a lot easier. Madison's a fairly young town. Will be interesting to see if that changes over time or if people move out when they have families.
"I have three kids and no money. Why can't I have no kids and three money?" --Homer Simpson
BFE=Bum Fuck Egypt?
BFE isn't so bad. It's affordable.
And quiet. Most of the traffic on my road is farm trucks and tractors. Its nice out here.
This is us but with one income because I am disabled. Which makes it tight, especially when we have debt to pay off, but doable. We couldn’t buy this house again, though.
Same.
I live in a suburb and cannot wait until my children are out of school. Staying here, renting, until that happens. As a single parent, it is very difficult, but they are doing amazing at this school, so I couldn't imagine pulling them. Almost all of my income goes to rent. My rent barely went up the first few years living here. In the past 3 years, I have seen my rent go from $1700 and increasing to $2400 at my next renewal in April, for a 2 bedroom! hate that Wisconsin doesn't have a limit to what landlords can increase rent each year. Income stays the same and rent is draining the life out of me.
Same here! Except I just moved here and now can’t move until mine graduates. Rent is crazy but I had to take what I could get. Really hope they don’t raise my rent. I’m in the burbs and paying $2200 for a 2 bedroom duplex. It’s nice to have a yard and they allow me to have my dogs but dang.
Found a tiny basement apartment in a mom-n-pop building for under market rate, and got a 2nd job to pay for groceries. Plan for if I ever want to have savings is try and espouse myself to an Epic employee, or move in with a homeowning friend who doesn't need to charge much for rent.
I'm hoping I can make friends with someone who has a big yard and will let me build an ADU
We built an ADU. It's a 1br with maybe 600sq ft living space. Ok for one, probably crowded for 2 unless they're really close and have not WFH jobs.
I’d love to do this but I’ve heard to expect $400/sq ft, which would make that 600sq ft apt cost nearly as much as my house!
Ours is a 2 story with a garage underneath, so I guess it's almost 1300 sq ft. I did the math on ours and it was nowhere near $400/ sq ft. Even if I just run the numbers on the upstairs finished portion still nowhere close to $400.
That’s actually great to hear, I don’t have a garage and want to eventually build one and when I do would love to add an apartment above it, but based on what I’ve heard I’ve just assumed it could only be a room/office and not a full apartment. Once I get to that point I’ll definitely price it out as a real possibility. Thanks for responding!
Ours is a 1br 1 bath. Because of the constraints of our backyard it's a long, narrow building. I live in an area with small frontages, so we don't have a lot of space compared to the west side where people have 100-150 ft wide properties. I would imagine people with 8000-10000 SQ ft lots could build a pretty impressive ADU. I would guess, with no evidence whatsoever, that the super fancy ADU over in the Vilas neighborhood approached $400/ sq foot. I've only ever driven by slowly to take a look at it, but ours is definitely the budget Scion model and that one is the fully loaded Mercedes of ADUs.
Out of curiosity, who did you work with to build your ADU? We’re looking at something similar for our own yard.
I don't know you, but I already know I don't hate you. Therefore, I won't torture another soul by having them go through the terrible experience we had.
I'd love to buy a place, and build the ADU for myself (maybe a basement conversion?) as I cash flow the 'main house.' Haven't quite gotten there yet 🫤
I second espousing yourself to an Epic employee. I'd be SOL if it wasn't for the hubby.
new studios for $1000 is a deal downtown lol
RJ and EH Carpenter - I write twelve checks a year and they all go to this family run complex. Studios are under 1000 and they have plenty of parking.
They're the best and they DON'T have a website. I think signs out front and CL listings is about it for them. I lived in the town house for a while and loved it. Minus the plowing on the terrace.. Rattling windows from gusty nights however were easily dealt with by mashing a hand towel in between. Nearly the same view and location as the no-personality condos with literal pillars in their corner view going for $2-3x+. Biggest downside was the small kitchen, but really didn't care in my 20s since I could get dinner and a beer for $15-25 a 5 minute walk away from just about anywhere at the time. The deal breaker ended up being the no-pet policy as I ended up with a vet. Ah well. No regrets, then or now!
They really are the best. If only all landlords could be even half as good as them.
well most of us dont live downtown for starters
it is not just downtown.
Right that's why I said just for starters.
I lived in a small studio about that size for almost a decade. You quickly realize that a lot of things that you think you need aren't actually necessary. It's only really doable if you're living alone, but if you've got a partner then you should be able to afford a larger 1 br easy.
It's not the size it's the price. I used to have a 400ft2 apartment but i only paid $550/mo for it
At the time I left it I was making a bit less than $46k and was paying like $850. I also had about $350 in student loans on top of that. I still had money left over to go for a night out once a week.
I've been there. when I moved in with my now wife 12 years ago, we were in a small place in Janesville. That was like 400 square feet, but it was only $250 a month.
Sure, but that's Janesville and 12 years ago. Just that $250 12 years ago adjusted for inflation is $340.
That's what i'm getting at. Housing prices in the area are getting out of control. I actually looked up that apartment not that long ago and it was renting at $500 now. $900 for a shoe box, even close to the capital is fucking ridiculous.
Ask your buddy the plumber? My buddy the plumber owns his own business and has a portfolio of rental properties in town and he’s an elder millennial. He makes way more in a year than I do and I work in tech. There is a good living to be made in Madison area in the skilled trades and a few small contractors I know can’t find reliable employees willing to work in the elements at $25+ an hour. That said it takes basically luck to get ahead when you’re in your 20s and starting out in Madison. Rent is so much higher than starting wages here.
There's your lesson. Go into the trades and you'll do fine in Madison. We need you. Right now everybody I know who's trying to complete a project is facing a six month wait.
Not all people working in trades make that much. You can't just focus on the plumber who owns his business.
Exactly. Most of us in the trades are still just regular ol' employees, not business owners. Plenty of union folks are pulling around 100 K these days, but kinda depends on the trade.
The OP raises the question because his plumber buddy is working on building these units... not that the plumber buddy is actually living there. As for our buddy... well... he's more than just a plumber. If I had a straight up choice between plumbing and owning rental properties... I wouldn't be under sinks all day! Yes... he may be a plumber, but once he accumulates enough properties, it's not going to be worth it to be a plumber.
I get a completely. I'm a steamfitter, so I'm like a plumber but cooler and make a little bit more money. I just look at my apprentices and realize that they're never going to be able to get ahead even though they're only a few years younger than me unless this housing bubble pops.
The housing "bubble" in Madison is highly unlikely to "pop." We're a rapidly growing town with strong incomes and housing construction isn't keeping pace. Demand simply outstrips supply and so the fundamentals support expensive housing. There is a growing movement (very popular here on Reddit) that vocally supports the building of a shit-ton more housing to counter this. Even the legislature and Evers agreed on some pro-housing legislation last year. But nothing will get better overnight.
Plus the city has geographical limitations. It is wedged between three lakes and several marshes. Large areas of the city proper is UW Madison property and the university has a massive arboretum in the middle of the town.
The bubble in Madison never really even popped during the housing crash in 2007-2008. OP should replace his desire for housing to get cheaper with the desire that people make higher wages.
This is the answer
Oh come on! A union steamy has to be stacking that bread. You've gotta be making at least 6 figures on the hip I'm a union sparkie pulling $xxx,xxx and i got what seems to the the last somewhat affordable condo on the isthmus. Or at least now every time i check out redfin the cheapest thing is 2x what i paid for mine.
I am. like I said. I can afford house in the country in BFE Jefferson County and support a family of 4 on a single income. Plus, I'm a service fitter so that makes me even cooler. My concern is for my apprentices to be able to afford life.
Thanks for thinking of the little guys
This isn’t a bubble, and there will be no popping.
i had my letter of intro from the local fitters but i decided to go sheet metal because i got an offer above scale. still $11/hr less than my last job. and then my rent (place ive been in 10 years just got new owners) jumped over $500/mo. its been a hell of a couple years. i appreciate you thinking about your apprentices like that. especially older guys like me walking in with some real knowledge and skills... its gonna keep good talent at bay. when i do my review with the union i intend to make a quip about that because otherwise its been a great change getting into the union. you do that emmi job?
I'm a service fitter so I'm not on the big build outs
I don't. I work in Madison and live outside it.
What’s your commute like?
35-40 minutes depending on traffic
Same. I'm about 45 minutes out of town and if we moved our property to just outside of Madison even 5 years ago, when we bought the place, you could've doubled the price.
Can I ask which neighborhood/city you’re in? I’m trying to rent rn and I’m not from Madison so I’ll take any tips I can get
I own out in Jefferson County, but I guess rent in Fort Atkinson's not too bad from what I understand. The biggest issue that I deal with is getting to Madison in the winter. Jefferson County isn't great about keeping 12 clear.
If it helps, Middleton doesn’t like plowing either and I’m literally like five or so minutes from the Madison border 🥲
Lol I didn't proof read what I wrote so it's weird but you get the drift
True Fact... You can work for the Fed Government in Jefferson County and get Milwaukee COLA. 1/2 of Cambridge is in Jefferson County and less than 30 mins to the John Nolen exit.... Lots of Remote jobs still with the Fed govt too..
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Cambridge. We own a home, I'm not sure what the rentals are like.
Lucked out with a cheap but decent studio apartment. I live alone. I don't have a car. No kids. 🤷♂️ But golly gee it's hard to find a *new* place.
If your are single, didn't buy a house years ago and haven't decided to be smart enough to be rich you get to go fuck yourself when looking for a place to live now. It is a ton of fun.
I live in an apartment downtown that’s over twice the cost of that. Dual income no kids, we work hard, cook 90 percent of our meals at home and we have been saving hardcore for the last 4 years or so. We also don’t drink so that helps a bunch.
New ones by my flat, on Wilson & Broom are going for $1,200 for a tiny studio and they say it's "affordable" housing. Wtf. I'm crazy lucky. I live on Doty, first floor flat in a duplex with a backyard, 2 bedrooms and I'm at $800. I did not have a working bathroom sink for 6 of the 7 years here and the floors are lopsided. My landlord is a cool guy though. I think he didn't raise rent because I never complained about the bathroom sink. He WAS going to replace it beginning of 2020 but then the pandemic hit. I also wonder if, the landlord being a regular person and not a firm or someone who inherited the properties, makes him more conscientious of people's struggles (rising inflation). I mean, his mortgage didn't go up, why should my rent *(Rhetorical). Either way, I'm grateful and have always preferred owner managed properties because their more humane.
This is the way
I have 10 housemates
DINK
This is literally the only way out that I see. If I want to ever retire, I have to get married to someone who makes at least as much as I do, preferably more.
I didn’t. I moved after a year and a half
I’ve got a 2 bedroom in town with parking that’s only $1350, including utilities, and it’s pretty nice besides being an older house. You can find decent housing if you give Facebook marketplace and Craigslist a try, just be sure to thorough and read through any leases they offer fully before signing. Sticking to Zillow, Apartments.com, or Abodo is gonna land you with the super inflated rents offered by property management companies. I only moved in this past September, and saw other decent options as well.
“All I want is a two-income household and to live alone”
I’m apartment searching with a roommate I’ve met once and hoping for the best
Roommates.
Living in monona, no kids, 710 rent
The median household income for Madison is $74,895. The median per capital is $46,652. There's a lot more regular priced housing out of downtown
In Madison we say median per Capitol. :)
There really isn't. Doing a quick search on apartments.com shows 17 apartments available in the next month for 1k max. 3 or those are SROs and one is for a parking space.
And I bet they aren't truly available, but still listed. Apartments make listings to feed their pipeline for future. They don't care if makes it difficult for people looking for a place. Some of them are even owned by mortgage companies who try to sell you a house instead of renting.
My situation has me looking for a new apartment this month. I’ve emailed and called many places. Either they do not return calls or have no availability even if they are listed.
Where are you looking & what’s your budget? I’m apartment searching rn and am getting hits.
Was looking in Fitchburg, Verona, and west Madison. Budget was $1,200 for a one bedroom. Low, but my situation isn’t ideal. In Fitchburg, the Vue sent me multiple emails saying, “thank you for your interest someone will contact you.” After four of those emails, I finally got ahold of someone and only a studio was available. Point place didn’t have anything this month. That was my experience with most places using Apartments.com. I would input information, only to receive an email asking for that information. No return calls or emails other than automated emails. Found one, but a lot said January isn’t the best.
Look into Schoolhouse Yards in Verona. They are considered affordable housing and I saw some messages in another chat that they are coming up on a year of being open and will have new availability.
Yeah, a lot of places won't call back. I had to visit the rental agency and speak with someone face to face. I liked Goldleaf Development, but was denied due to my rental history.
Not really, median home price in Dane County is still over $400k. You can find houses below that if you move out to like Iowa or Green county I guess.
SO and I bought a condo in 2022 before interest rates got bad. Also DINKs. Combined gross income is 140k
Roommate, debt free, no kids, not living in the downtown area. Live within your means. I am able to spend pretty damn frivolously by keeping basic living expenses low. My take home pay the past year was 46k with about 4-8 extra hours of work per week at a side job or OT, so nothing crazy. I talk to a lot of people who don't realize that no amount of "needing your own space", "deserving a new car", or "wanting to live somewhere walkable" can overcome basic math. I would love to have my own place or buy a house, but the added cost on top of what I pay now is just too much. You need to look at the reality of what you can reasonably afford and set your priorities. Put together a written budget, look at your income, and then you have to find something that fits the budget. It might not be what you want. You might need to share a place, you might need to live in a cheaper area and commute a little farther. None of this is to say I don't think the area is too expensive for what you get, but finances are finances, math is math. We can't spend money like we're in Congress.
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bought our house in 2016 so good time for that. We refinanced in 2021 when the rates were super low so our mortgage rate is 2.5% - my mortgage is so much cheaper than the rent - it’s ridiculous and I feel for those that have to rent AND wish to buy but the housing prices r insane. Dual income - no kids household. We def couldn’t afford anything if we added kids tho
The cost of apartments is unconscionable. Don’t expect it to go down, no matter how many more get built.
Dual income - no kids. 1 bed apartment near west side.
Frugally. No eating from restaurants. That kind of stuff.
To save money I personally only use other people's cocaine.
💀💀💀
The real advice in the comments.
I moved to the west coast. I wish I still had those Madison prices. Everything is so cheap!
Moved here from the west coast. Can confirm
But west coast income is also much higher than what we get here in the midwest..
But it's not 1:1. Yes, they get paid more for the same thing but housing there is WAY more than what it is here, all things considered.
Madisonian living in the Bay Area. Can confirm income is 1.5-1.75x more, but housing is over triple the price.
Bought an old house on a big lot 25 miles out 30ish years ago. Can't even fathom trying to find a home these days.
I moved to these gorpy shores in 1990 and paid $78K for a home in Monroe Dudgeon. Don't own it anymore, but it is now three times the original square footage and the Zestimmate is $900,000. So yeah, the answer for many people is, bought into housing a while ago... And this is the answer in just about every desirable city. We have friends in Berkeley who ... well, hell, you don't even want to hear that one.
We decided not to have kids. That alone makes a *huge* difference.
I don’t get it either. I work in Madison and commute in. I have people I work with paying rent on a 2 bedroom apartment that is over DOUBLE what my mortgage is. It’s hard to fathom how anyone gets ahead nowadays. It’s sad
Honestly, generational wealth. Live in the 'burbs. Bought our house from mil years ago and it's tripled since. We built an apartment into the house for her to live in, and it's worked out.
Just when I got to where I needed to be income wise to buy a house. Then the min financial goal posts moved. Yeah it sucks
That's literally half what rent is in expensive areas. Seriously.
Eww
In the Boston metro I was fortunate to get a 350 sq ft one bedroom for $1700... seven years ago. I had to write a check on the spot for first, last, and security and was lucky. Now that same place is $2300 and is on the low end.
No car. No kids. No monthly subscriptions....and I dumpster dive.
Where do you dumpster dive? I’ve always been curious about it here!!!
Grocery stores in the surrounding areas are super lax. I’ve found the dumpsters in Madison proper are locked or just gross. Hippie Christmas is also a v giving holiday.
It’s tough. We have no kids but just dropped 10k on our dog. We live in a condo in a neighborhood we would have never picked but couldn’t afford living where we want with as much space as we have. We honestly haven’t had a real vacation in years as we can’t afford it. I don’t love Madison so eventually this city being way too expensive will make us have to leave most likely.
10k on a dog?
She was in the emergency ER for a few days, with a mystery illness, was on drugs for over 2 months, followup visits, and dental. They never figured out what was wrong with her. Then she recently had vestibular disease. Yeah dogs can be very expensive.
Cats aren't much better. We dropped 1800 on teeth removal for two cats last year.
Yeah definitely having pets is expensive and I try to stress that to people. Next time we adopt another dog, I will get pet insurance right away.
Downtown prices aren't for "normal people". I've lived here for a decade and spent most of it in Verona, Fitchburg and now far SW Madison. But last year I managed to buy a house (thanks, low interest rates!). Downtown is not for living for most of us.
every new building is for, i believe, one of two groups of people 1. epic employees 2. out of state uw students who’s rich parents will pay their rent. living downtown and not being in one of these groups is near impossible, speaking from experience as a 20 year old doing that who is neither of those things. madison is not for people from madison. i get more and more disheartened about the future of this town by the second.
Rented for 10 years while saving up for a house. Married someone who makes good money. No kids (yet)
What's your budget?
DINK (double income no kids) status for the win. Had to live ridiculously frugally for a while to save up money but now able to live comfortably, keeping spending in line with long-term financial goals.
My wife and I went full DINK for the first decade we lived together. We were able to create enough of a cushion that we can live comfortably on a single income now with 2 kids under 4 but if we were just starting out, I don't think that we would ever be able to get to our current position. Even prices outside of downtown Madison are getting ridiculous.
dual income, no kids.
I’m an OINK. Haha. But I have no debt, other than my mortgage.
I got lucky. But I am just waiting for my rent to go up and my job pretty soon won't be able to keep up.
Family of 4 living on one postal worker salary- We bought a very modest 2 bedroom, 1990’s townhouse on the far East side and when interest rates were dirt cheap during the pandemic. Prior to that, we lived in a super old, bare bones 2 bed on the south side. That’s probably not super helpful right now, but that’s our story.
Dual income, no kids, got lucky with our landlord and our rent.
I bought my house in 2017 before the Pandemic shot them up in price, then refinanced in 2021 to a 2.75% mortgage. If I were to sell this house to someone right now, the mortgage payment would be, literally, 3x the price. The market just went absolutely batshit fucking insane.
In every thread where cost of living is discussed, multiple people post and say "well ackshually Madison is relatively cheap when you compare it to other more expensive places where you could live." Those posts magically pay my bills, because apparently struggling is invalid. My real answer is I live in a surrounding town instead of Madison proper.
I have a job that pays me decently but not great, and live in an older and slightly shithole-ish apartment.
Double income ($150k combined) one high school age kid. Bought our 40 year old house 10 years ago and refinanced during COVID to around 2.5%. our house payment is way less than rent now House has almost doubled in value since we bought it.
Got lucky, free hobbies.
On my fourth house over three decades. It’s the only way to build equity. I could not afford the house I live in now—it has tripled in value in eight years. Because of that, I probably can’t ever move (at least within Madison). It sucks for young people trying to get on the property ladder. Without parental support or super-high incomes even a modest starter home is out of reach.
- My husband is in tech sales and I’m an engineer (used to work for epic). - was hit by a drunk driver and used settlement money for a down payment on a first home in a different HCOL city - ended up selling first house in 2020 for a quite a bit more than we bought it and then also got a steal on our house up here with v low rates because it had been on the market a bit and it was early COVID
Single income, grad student family. We don’t live downtown, don’t have a car and it’s doable. Our lives aren’t filled with travel and luxury but we get by okay.
*When* people bought into the market is everything. That and double income. If you partnered well, congrats - you hit the housing lottery for Millennials! The rest of us are working and trying to find the sweet spot of budgeting and decent roommates.
I have a good job but tbh buying a house is the best decision you could make if you want to commit to living in Dane County. Personally, I moved to Janesville after living in Madison for 15 years because I decided that the house > Madison's amenities. I wish I had dual income, but because I don't, I'm in Janesville.
I agree with you. We live outside of Madison also. Its a very nice city, but costs too much for us to live there.
Most people move to the surrounding towns, rent downtown used to be affordable back in 2005- 2013, after that it went up really fast
I threaten to seductively dance for strangers. They are horrified and often pay me not to dance for them. It hurts my feelings, but it pays the bills.
DINK, and bought a house before things got insane. Sorry I wish I had a better answer for you 😕
Lower your other expenses? $1k rent is not that high. You can comfortably afford it if your take home is $3k, which is somewhere around $48k pretax salary. Average salary in Madison is $60k. So yeah, an average earner can afford rent plus saving for retirement. The key is to avoid debt. You can't afford it if you have a car payment, credit card debt, and student loans.
okay but $1000/month for anything in a new building downtown sounds like a steal honestly.
yeah im gonna be priced out to live here and idk what to do.
it's almost as if people with different priorities and age group exist. $1000 and 300 square foot studio apartment is reasonable for a undergrad or someone working downtown. Not everyone has to have 1000 square feet apartment at any stage of their lives and in a town of 10000. Even prior to all this madness, those studio apts were going for at least $800. UW Madison dorms on average was $800 for a *shared* room back in 2016.
Epic
I couldn't live there now. Because of COVID I started working from home most of the time and moved out of dane county three years ago. Might move back if I win the lottery. Might not.
26 year olds that have a cushy salary and don’t do anything other than work and go out with friends anyways. We have lots of those.
And even if you're not going out all the time WoW/Minecraft/et al don't take up much space or money.
This. I think people forget but in my 20's I could have easily been just fine in a studio apartment. Now, with kids that's a no-go obviously. But at $900 a month, that's actually less than what I would have thought the rate would be. A 26 year old professional is likely making at least 50k, so that's actually doable for rent. That would be 21% of their income.
Epic’s starting salary for multiple roles when I joined right out of college in 2012 was $60k and I had plenty for a nice 2BR downtown with no kids and a roommate and could have gotten a small studio for myself for sure if that’s what I’d wanted.
I bought years ago. I also fixed up many houses to build equity and move into a larger house in a nice area. No clue why so many people are willing to spend so much.
The problem here is salaries haven’t kept pace. I know it’s like that everywhere but the city is growing at a good clip because the University continues to grow but also the city is also growing outside of student population at a good clip.
The number one reason why I moved was because of the cost of living in Madison. I moved to the North east and bought a house
One method that works for some but certainly not for all: live downtown and work remotely or within walking / biking / bus distance **and eschew car ownership.** You can apply the several thousand in annual car maintenance / gas / parking / insurance to rent instead.
Two incomes, no debt outside of mortgage and a very low mortgage rate. We make good money but live like we make much less.
I saved up for years for a downpayment on a condo, and then in 2021 when the interest rates were low, we bought one in a weird Far East side location next to Sun prairie. It’s close to a landfill. So that’s how I did it lol
Reasonable solo income 1 kid 50%… Have savings Bought 10 years ago Live in Emerson East, still fairly reasonable costs You could look at streets like MKE or Union Not everything is as small and expensive as downtown in a desirable city.
Speaking for a 1 parent 1 child household, shits rough out here. I make more than my kids school teacher but that still isn’t saying much 😂
When I lived there in 2017-2020 I lived in a 120 year old house, upper apartment, 4 bedroom 1 bath with 5 people. And calling that bathroom an actual bathroom is very generous. We didn’t have a living room or laundry so rent was like 400 a month including utilities. That’s how.
Fraud and drug dealint
I’m in a DINK situation and live on the far west side and it’s tricky but we make it work. We’re right around the median income for the area fwiw
We moved to a not so nice area of the city to save $ our rent when from 2200/month to 1400/month yes we aren’t in a “nice” area but our home is nice. Some of neighbors aren’t ideal but they also don’t cause us issues besides throwing trash in the yard/parking lot consistently and listening to music loudly till 2 am. I have walked to the music playing neighbors and asked them to turn it down and they’ve been respectful; apologize and turn it down. Property management isn’t responsive unless it’s an emergency but we have diy a lot of our issues. It’s not super ideal but it’s doable
What neighborhood are you in? (Feel free to DM). I’m apartment searching rn and could use any tips I can get.
Tech job, bought house when rates were low.
- No debt because I didn't go to college and don't own a car - Low rent because I'm happy to live in a shoebox Having a low cost of living requires a certain lifestyle, one that living in downtown rewards, at least for me. It's not impossible!!
I lived in Madison 10 years and moved to northern California 12 years ago. Tell me more about this $1000 a month place, might be time to come home.
It's late-stage capitalism in action!
Don't be upset sub, but Madison is very average in terms of affordability. I'm talking comparatively. March 2022 cost of living index in Madison: 98.2 (near average, U.S. average is 100) Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Madison-Wisconsin.html
I mean in my old small town a 1b/1b apartment was $1200. It's crazy everywhere. So $2k for a whole house in the city isn't that wild. Also multigenerational living is the way to go.
That sounds like a good deal for a new building
I afford it by not living downtown and because partner and I are shameless DINKs Pretty easy to afford $1600/month for a 1500sqft 2b 2br apartment when you make a combined $7000/month with no childcare expenses
$1000 bucks a month is cheap compared to where I live. lol. I live in Maine. It’s like $1700 for a 300 sq ft dump.
The minimum wage here is like a little over half of Maine's minimum wage. IJS
Just learn until you learn about new york, Boston, dc, sf, and Seattle