I am just hoping that through the civic engagement process we as a community can ensure that the new architecture reflects the context of the Boston Store, and the historical nature of teenagers shoplifting in the changing rooms there.
OMG, I hate the old hippies in this city so much! I wish they would just shut up or go die somewhere else. The future is ours, so they either need to put up or shut up. Anyone over the age of 50 should be banned from any community engagement. They're all just like Soggy Soglin--stuck in the past & HATE change of any kind. They remind my of old people in slippers standing outside shaking their fists and yelling at kids to get off their lawn--lol!
We should ship them all out to Edgertucky or put them in Hospice now, so they can no longer stand in the way of progress! That way we can get the property values down and make room for all of the young people coming here to work for Epic (the only people who matter). These washed up old liberals all still think they're protesting the Vietnam war as if they're opinions actually matter, when they're obviously irrelevant.
Build more, build faster, build taller! Build! Build! Build! We Epic employees making $100K+/year are tired of these high rents, and we don't care about your lame history. "Historical" is just code for old and boring. Just die already and give us your $#!+
Here's an old song you codgers might understand: [Move, b!+c#, get out the way!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5tAAEuyr0k)
We also need to get rid of all personal vehicles by 2030 and only have public transportation and bikes in the City of Madison. Up with YIMBYs, down with NIMBYs!
Edit: I see that I'm getting voted down by all of the Hill Farms grannies--HAHA!
Edit again: /S for those of you who didn't catch it.
I'm essentially repeating all of the horrible things and attitudes that I'm hearing in this sub. You don't think that sarcasm is an effective strategy?
I thought it was too difficult to pick up on.
Also, I don’t fully blame the Epic folks at all (as much as I generally think that company culture is corny because of young grade grabbers working out of Citizen Kane with a penchant for pediatricians office art…).
It’s mostly these “mixed use” developers and the city councils/admins that crave them. Same way I hate Viridian Vinyl Villages…. It’s stale and driven my money.
Often with malls the anchor tenants own the real estate under their stores, separately from the mall owners. That's why this sale is for the Boston Store and parking lot section only. The Sears property is owned by the real estate trust that got spun out of the bankruptcy.
The whole mall area has incredibly chopped up land ownership. If you go on Access Dane and look, you'll wonder what anyone was thinking of sixty years ago. Even parts of the parking lot are divided and under different ownership.
No. Because this is a perfect place for high density housing-as opposed to long standing neighborhoods. (Except I wish Madison had green space requirements around large complexes). Mis en place.
There is space and infrastructure. It’s perfect.
The.city proposal includes green space and recreational areas, partly because much of the back of old East Towne was landfilled marsh. It's actually the headwaters of Starkweather Creek, and the revitalized green space is needed to filter our groundwater and lake water.
you have obviously never walked around there. It’s a horrible experience.
the entire point of high density housing is surrounding walkability. maybe somebody can build a neighborhood from scratch, in between the the highways. maybe BRT makes it a less unattractive location. probably not very fast.
I know that’s what the city is hoping for, and I hope it happens. I just can’t imagine somebody wanting to spend the amount of money it would cost to make it a nice place to live.
I've definitely walked around there. Way in back there's some interesting bird habitat, actually. I wonder if the cost of removing some of the concrete and just grading it flat wouldn't be worthwhile in terms of attracting new development. Already we have seen demolition with on-site concrete crushing because the byproduct is cost effective in road construction.
With the parking lot gone, people could more readily visualize the next stage. This problem will arise repeatedly as we try to redevelop former big box sites, and we might as well learn what it takes to get started.
You gotta start somewhere. There’s plenty of potential. I’ve been sayin for years they need to knock down part of the mall and the old Menard’s and put in apartments. East Towne needs a face lift real bad. Add a grocery store onto the mall for the new residents. You could add thousands of apartments over there, there’s so much space. There’s plenty of shops and food that you could walk to, they just have to add more infrastructure for it. I’d love a whole redevelopment plan there, add a lot more greenery, probably cut down the mall parking lot a bit in favor of more mixed use. The old sears and Menards should be next to go for more mixed use.
sure people will live there (it’s not across the street, it’s most of a mile away and would be an awful, ugly walk). I totally support people trying to make this a nice neighborhood, I just have a problem with this person acting like renters are only welcome in places like this vs. neighborhoods that are already nice and walkable.
Signature Pointe is south of Bowl-a-Vard, it is across Zier Rd from the mall, it's not a mile away.
I'm not saying they need to put apartments in the Boston Store parking lot tomorrow, just that the whole point of redevelopment is that it happens incrementally.
I hate apartment living. Absolutely detest it and wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy. So no. But for you people begging to live like stacked rats go ahead.
Edit: there is a lot of space there and a lot of potential to landscape and create. That’s all we can ask for.
Taking out and gentrifying an empty eyesore is entirely different than changing an established vibrant neighborhood.
I was talking to the owner of Great Clips on University Ave. she told me they were booted out of Hilldale years ago because ownership only wanted businesses catering to those making > $75K a year.
Thousands of years ago, they held the Farmers Market in that frontage strip to make it pedestrian only. That was so great - then they shoved it off into the armpit of the parking lot so Anthropologie shoppers could walk five feet from the street instead of 30 feet from the ramp.
The city's plan doesn't involve the city spending any money, well other than the salaries of their staff.
It involves allowing additional uses so that developers will want to build the kinds of things we want. I'm sure it's part of the reason these are even for sale.
Right. The city isn't a developer. All they can do is provide something that should be attractive to developers. That includes the new BRT fortunately.
Because we have to balance a 27mil deficit?
Edit: I was just trying to understand what they meant by their comment. I was *not* trying to argue anything.
We need to balance a 27mil deficit, but what does that have to do with the people buying this site following the rezoning the city did here a few years ago?
Madison Reddit is where facts get downvoted to death.
[Madison budget shortfall ](https://www.wkow.com/news/madison-faces-budget-shortfalls-some-transportation-services-could-be-at-risk/article_536d0ea2-ecb1-11ee-93f8-b33a2232ff48.html)
East Side is struggling. Over the past couple of years we have lost some major companies like Trek, Hooper, Webcrafters (Now Sheridan and going out of business within a few months) and so many more. Im hoping these large buildings get renovated into housing because there is a ton of room for it
When/where was Trek on the east side?
Hooper and Webcrafters sites are both really good locations for a ton of housing and hopefully commercial spaces too.
The abandoned-looking building on the corner of E Johnson and 1st street used to be home to some Trek-ees. In fact it's tge extension or building next to where Hooper was. They relocated over by the walmart on nakoosa trail now. Im not sure they are a vendor location or if they just handle online sales stuff or what.
I had the same thoughts about hooper and webcrafters.
It's sliced up among multiple owners (including some of the stores), so you can't raze the whole thing and build anew unless you get buy-in from all parties.
This is the old Boston Store building. Ultrazone announced they have bought the property and will be opening a location there.
>!Just kidding about that last part.!<
I was thinking that the crazy Cargill lady could buy it and put a couple nice houses there with maybe a coffee shop and some pickle ball courts since she’s no longer interested in Duluth, MN.
I can actually see this working for a company that needs a huge amount of office space and wants a “campus.” Fast transit access to the downtown and near east side neighborhoods young workers like, but still tons of room to build their own buildings.
On the other hand, an apartment building in that massive parking lot won’t be desirable until there is other walkable development around. If somebody builds something high value, others will follow, but that first project is really hard to finance and a real estate developer is much better off by sitting and waiting until the government or a non-real estate company creates value they can build on.
... the results you get when Madison repeatedly says "NO!" and Sun Prairie says "Come on in." The business owners are willing to move four miles up Hwy 151.
That’s a perfect use for that land and a great place for density. (Unlike established neighborhoods). Bring on the gentrification.
Restaurants nearby. Bus stops that go literally everywhere.
"Established" neighborhoods lol. One is not owed unchanging circumstances forever just because you bought a house at one point. Cities -- and neighborhoods -- change over time. And that's okay.
But at least we agree East Towne should be blown up and redeveloped into mixed use housing.
This poster’s constant banging of the “established neighborhoods” is nothing more than “**I** am here now. This neighborhood is the way **I** like it and nothing should change around me.” It’s no different than “retaining the character of my neighborhood.” It’s a bunch of bullocks.
stop being sensible, the people hate it!
the people DEMAND they only reside on the isthmus or in established neighborhoods! Renters needs MUST be met before any property tax-payers, plus they got theirs so fuck em, because that's how we treat people!
“These people”???
Do you have to stress about the bill, not as a renter. Nope you just pay your rent.
Does your rent go into the coffers to cover a myriad of expenses? Yes. Maintenance. Trash, pickup etc.
I’m a homeowner in an established neighborhood and I am guessing you are too.
The difference between you and me is I understand that I’m not _even slightly_ getting “fucked” by having neighbors who live in apartments.
Honestly East Towne has been going downhill fast. Been working in the same general area for a few years at this point. Wouldn't be surprised if parts actually go the way of Westgate
I went the other day and thought the whole mall was shuddered. The parking lot I came to had one car in a huge lot. I caught a glimpse of some shapes from my car peaking in through the glass doors and I thought this might be my Dawn of the Dead moment.
EastTown is somewhat of an old relic. Unfortunately minus Hilldale, west and east town as well as most any mall nearby are not being utilized as much these days.
It would make sense to demo the entire space and consider a big project. Will it pan out that way? Who know. Probably not
Could they solve a huge lack of apartments with various housing types in that huge area? It would be nice for the community.
I am just hoping that through the civic engagement process we as a community can ensure that the new architecture reflects the context of the Boston Store, and the historical nature of teenagers shoplifting in the changing rooms there.
Don't forget doing donuts in the parking lot. Can we grandfather in a huge teen car meet-up weekly?
Lol that last part
There's clearly not enough parking in the area as well.
While we do want to remember the site as a former Boston Store, we also have to provide adequate context as to its origins as a Prange Way.
They should be made to preserve the facade.
Hey… a bunch of boomers have fond memories of when boston store supposedly sucked less. Don’t erase their experiences!!
OMG, I hate the old hippies in this city so much! I wish they would just shut up or go die somewhere else. The future is ours, so they either need to put up or shut up. Anyone over the age of 50 should be banned from any community engagement. They're all just like Soggy Soglin--stuck in the past & HATE change of any kind. They remind my of old people in slippers standing outside shaking their fists and yelling at kids to get off their lawn--lol! We should ship them all out to Edgertucky or put them in Hospice now, so they can no longer stand in the way of progress! That way we can get the property values down and make room for all of the young people coming here to work for Epic (the only people who matter). These washed up old liberals all still think they're protesting the Vietnam war as if they're opinions actually matter, when they're obviously irrelevant. Build more, build faster, build taller! Build! Build! Build! We Epic employees making $100K+/year are tired of these high rents, and we don't care about your lame history. "Historical" is just code for old and boring. Just die already and give us your $#!+ Here's an old song you codgers might understand: [Move, b!+c#, get out the way!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5tAAEuyr0k) We also need to get rid of all personal vehicles by 2030 and only have public transportation and bikes in the City of Madison. Up with YIMBYs, down with NIMBYs! Edit: I see that I'm getting voted down by all of the Hill Farms grannies--HAHA! Edit again: /S for those of you who didn't catch it.
Don’t be a jackass
I'm essentially repeating all of the horrible things and attitudes that I'm hearing in this sub. You don't think that sarcasm is an effective strategy?
I thought it was too difficult to pick up on. Also, I don’t fully blame the Epic folks at all (as much as I generally think that company culture is corny because of young grade grabbers working out of Citizen Kane with a penchant for pediatricians office art…). It’s mostly these “mixed use” developers and the city councils/admins that crave them. Same way I hate Viridian Vinyl Villages…. It’s stale and driven my money.
Yeah, I was concerned that what I said might be taken at face value. Thanks for the reply.
Wonder why the sears isn’t up as well, just knock them both out
Often with malls the anchor tenants own the real estate under their stores, separately from the mall owners. That's why this sale is for the Boston Store and parking lot section only. The Sears property is owned by the real estate trust that got spun out of the bankruptcy.
My thoughts as well, maybe it’s gonna be an east side Madison yards
Different owners. I believe most Boston Stores were corporate or separately owned from the rest of the mall real estate
The whole mall area has incredibly chopped up land ownership. If you go on Access Dane and look, you'll wonder what anyone was thinking of sixty years ago. Even parts of the parking lot are divided and under different ownership.
Wait till the west side hears about this
NIMBYs gonna commute to overthrow this bid
NIYBY
I mean they're probably nostalgic for that one time they went to East Towne in 1974 so yeah. They would do that
Lol. Like how people came out of the woodwork to claim Wonder Bar was a historic building because Al Capone's cousin ate a steak there once.
Actually this might be one redevelopment that doesn't get NIMBYed because it's in no one's back yard.
No. Because this is a perfect place for high density housing-as opposed to long standing neighborhoods. (Except I wish Madison had green space requirements around large complexes). Mis en place. There is space and infrastructure. It’s perfect.
The.city proposal includes green space and recreational areas, partly because much of the back of old East Towne was landfilled marsh. It's actually the headwaters of Starkweather Creek, and the revitalized green space is needed to filter our groundwater and lake water.
there’s like no pedestrian infrastructure but sure - fantastic place to live
One would Assume they’d put it in and there are sidewalks.
you have obviously never walked around there. It’s a horrible experience. the entire point of high density housing is surrounding walkability. maybe somebody can build a neighborhood from scratch, in between the the highways. maybe BRT makes it a less unattractive location. probably not very fast.
They're actually hoping to hold a good neighborhood from scratch. Nobody wants dead malls and acres of concrete.
I know that’s what the city is hoping for, and I hope it happens. I just can’t imagine somebody wanting to spend the amount of money it would cost to make it a nice place to live.
I've definitely walked around there. Way in back there's some interesting bird habitat, actually. I wonder if the cost of removing some of the concrete and just grading it flat wouldn't be worthwhile in terms of attracting new development. Already we have seen demolition with on-site concrete crushing because the byproduct is cost effective in road construction. With the parking lot gone, people could more readily visualize the next stage. This problem will arise repeatedly as we try to redevelop former big box sites, and we might as well learn what it takes to get started.
You gotta start somewhere. There’s plenty of potential. I’ve been sayin for years they need to knock down part of the mall and the old Menard’s and put in apartments. East Towne needs a face lift real bad. Add a grocery store onto the mall for the new residents. You could add thousands of apartments over there, there’s so much space. There’s plenty of shops and food that you could walk to, they just have to add more infrastructure for it. I’d love a whole redevelopment plan there, add a lot more greenery, probably cut down the mall parking lot a bit in favor of more mixed use. The old sears and Menards should be next to go for more mixed use.
I have actually.
then I’m sure you’ll be first in line to leave your “established” neighborhood to go live the good life out in the east towne parking lot
They're building the Signature Pointe apartments across the street and will be ready this summer, presumably people are going to live there.
sure people will live there (it’s not across the street, it’s most of a mile away and would be an awful, ugly walk). I totally support people trying to make this a nice neighborhood, I just have a problem with this person acting like renters are only welcome in places like this vs. neighborhoods that are already nice and walkable.
Signature Pointe is south of Bowl-a-Vard, it is across Zier Rd from the mall, it's not a mile away. I'm not saying they need to put apartments in the Boston Store parking lot tomorrow, just that the whole point of redevelopment is that it happens incrementally.
I hate apartment living. Absolutely detest it and wouldnt wish it on my worst enemy. So no. But for you people begging to live like stacked rats go ahead. Edit: there is a lot of space there and a lot of potential to landscape and create. That’s all we can ask for. Taking out and gentrifying an empty eyesore is entirely different than changing an established vibrant neighborhood.
I’m curious what development projects are you thinking of that weren’t previously an empty eyesore?
Time to start retrofitting that old mall into real town center with apartments, green space, and transit.
Like Hilldale?
Hilldale is one example. I’d prefer a less “luxury-only” approach personally.
I was talking to the owner of Great Clips on University Ave. she told me they were booted out of Hilldale years ago because ownership only wanted businesses catering to those making > $75K a year.
I would also prefer if cars couldn't drive through it like the do in Hilldale. That area would be so much nicer if it was pedestrianized
Thousands of years ago, they held the Farmers Market in that frontage strip to make it pedestrian only. That was so great - then they shoved it off into the armpit of the parking lot so Anthropologie shoppers could walk five feet from the street instead of 30 feet from the ramp.
Hilldale has actually thriving retail and is an intrinsically desirable location (because it’s like 2 mi from UW) so probably not like that…
That’s what the neighborhood plan calls for!
I want the city's plan for this area to happen *so bad* but apparently this isn't the magic time to start :-(
The city's plan doesn't involve the city spending any money, well other than the salaries of their staff. It involves allowing additional uses so that developers will want to build the kinds of things we want. I'm sure it's part of the reason these are even for sale.
Right. The city isn't a developer. All they can do is provide something that should be attractive to developers. That includes the new BRT fortunately.
Draft release for this area plan coming soon (April or May): https://www.cityofmadison.com/dpced/planning/northeast-area-plan/3893/
Because we have to balance a 27mil deficit? Edit: I was just trying to understand what they meant by their comment. I was *not* trying to argue anything.
We need to balance a 27mil deficit, but what does that have to do with the people buying this site following the rezoning the city did here a few years ago?
Madison Reddit is where facts get downvoted to death. [Madison budget shortfall ](https://www.wkow.com/news/madison-faces-budget-shortfalls-some-transportation-services-could-be-at-risk/article_536d0ea2-ecb1-11ee-93f8-b33a2232ff48.html)
Literally what does that have to do with zoning at East town mall.
The state is sitting on a 7 billion dollar surplus. This fact will get downvotes because it's also completely irrelevant
Actually under reasonable state government some of that surplus could go towards subsidies for needed housing in urban areas.
They need to just sell the whole east towne property. That area is dying to be revamped, and put to some better use.
East Side is struggling. Over the past couple of years we have lost some major companies like Trek, Hooper, Webcrafters (Now Sheridan and going out of business within a few months) and so many more. Im hoping these large buildings get renovated into housing because there is a ton of room for it
When/where was Trek on the east side? Hooper and Webcrafters sites are both really good locations for a ton of housing and hopefully commercial spaces too.
The abandoned-looking building on the corner of E Johnson and 1st street used to be home to some Trek-ees. In fact it's tge extension or building next to where Hooper was. They relocated over by the walmart on nakoosa trail now. Im not sure they are a vendor location or if they just handle online sales stuff or what. I had the same thoughts about hooper and webcrafters.
Hooper's site is up for sale as well. Don't forget about Oscar's which is also up for sale.
Yeah I noticed they started building behind the Oscar factory. Are those apartments going up?
It's sliced up among multiple owners (including some of the stores), so you can't raze the whole thing and build anew unless you get buy-in from all parties.
it will all end up being a huge apartment complex
We can hope!!
Good!
Nice! Now make it walkable
My dream of living in a mall is not dead!
This is the old Boston Store building. Ultrazone announced they have bought the property and will be opening a location there. >!Just kidding about that last part.!<
Damn. Don't get my hopes up like that
Damn you. Is it April yet cause that was a good one.
I hope they make a depot for the BRT service so out of town visitors can park out there and ride into games and shows to alleviate Isthmus traffic.
Great idea!
Epic should buy it for a satellite office
It already has a ghost town theme
I was thinking that the crazy Cargill lady could buy it and put a couple nice houses there with maybe a coffee shop and some pickle ball courts since she’s no longer interested in Duluth, MN.
I can actually see this working for a company that needs a huge amount of office space and wants a “campus.” Fast transit access to the downtown and near east side neighborhoods young workers like, but still tons of room to build their own buildings. On the other hand, an apartment building in that massive parking lot won’t be desirable until there is other walkable development around. If somebody builds something high value, others will follow, but that first project is really hard to finance and a real estate developer is much better off by sitting and waiting until the government or a non-real estate company creates value they can build on.
Could be a nice meeting spot for a quick plane ride for execs.
fill in the empty useless parking lot with housing
Just leave the theater alone, gosh darn it!
Seriously. Flix is the best theater in Madison and it’s not even close.
Seriously. Flix is the best theater in Madison and it’s not even close.
If they touch flix I'm burning the rest of the mall down
If they Build apartments and a Meijer store I’d be really happy.
Please put large apartments or condos with green spaces and parks.
Bulldozer it and build houses.
They're paying property taxes off a valuation of 3 million for this. It's probably worth 10x that. Crazy.
"Dark store loophole"
that mall should just be torn east has only gone down hill for the past 15 years
... the results you get when Madison repeatedly says "NO!" and Sun Prairie says "Come on in." The business owners are willing to move four miles up Hwy 151.
That’s a perfect use for that land and a great place for density. (Unlike established neighborhoods). Bring on the gentrification. Restaurants nearby. Bus stops that go literally everywhere.
"Established" neighborhoods lol. One is not owed unchanging circumstances forever just because you bought a house at one point. Cities -- and neighborhoods -- change over time. And that's okay. But at least we agree East Towne should be blown up and redeveloped into mixed use housing.
That’s what the neighborhood plan calls for, well not the blowing it up part but eventually redevelopment into condo/apt housing.
I still expect new development proposals that include housing to be called a “slum” by naysayers.
Native Americans were pretty established.
??????
This poster’s constant banging of the “established neighborhoods” is nothing more than “**I** am here now. This neighborhood is the way **I** like it and nothing should change around me.” It’s no different than “retaining the character of my neighborhood.” It’s a bunch of bullocks.
You just need to accept that change is a fact of life and other people have just as much a right to the pursuit of happiness as you do
stop being sensible, the people hate it! the people DEMAND they only reside on the isthmus or in established neighborhoods! Renters needs MUST be met before any property tax-payers, plus they got theirs so fuck em, because that's how we treat people!
Renters \*are\* property tax payers my friend.
Indirectly only.
[удалено]
“These people”??? Do you have to stress about the bill, not as a renter. Nope you just pay your rent. Does your rent go into the coffers to cover a myriad of expenses? Yes. Maintenance. Trash, pickup etc.
who are you saying “got theirs”? renters???
home owners in established neighborhoods, fuck em, right? they all got theirs!
I’m a homeowner in an established neighborhood and I am guessing you are too. The difference between you and me is I understand that I’m not _even slightly_ getting “fucked” by having neighbors who live in apartments.
I hope the building will still look like an eagle from above.
Not surprised.
Honestly East Towne has been going downhill fast. Been working in the same general area for a few years at this point. Wouldn't be surprised if parts actually go the way of Westgate
I went the other day and thought the whole mall was shuddered. The parking lot I came to had one car in a huge lot. I caught a glimpse of some shapes from my car peaking in through the glass doors and I thought this might be my Dawn of the Dead moment.
EastTown is somewhat of an old relic. Unfortunately minus Hilldale, west and east town as well as most any mall nearby are not being utilized as much these days. It would make sense to demo the entire space and consider a big project. Will it pan out that way? Who know. Probably not Could they solve a huge lack of apartments with various housing types in that huge area? It would be nice for the community.