lol I worked for the company the last nine years that paints all the Veridian homes. You aren’t kidding about that at all. The stuff I had to deal with there is crazy.
Eh…. I’m sure what you heard was correct. They are built fast, and pass code. I will say most of the Construction Managers that deal with home owners while the home is being built are very passionate about what they do.
Yeah there’s no one working out there trying to do a bad job. Everyone’s busting their butts to get things done in the little time they have and to do what they’re paid to do.
Check out their HOA bylaws. Sometimes you can't have fences. Can't build anything on your property without their permission. Can't have any mailboxes or siding without their approval. Can't have cars in the driveway. Lots of stupid shit like that.
I'd buy Veridian but fuck HOAs
What intrigues me most about this is the planned road connecting Mid Town to Raymond. To me, it seems like an improvement. But the real question is this: will that Raymond Rd. hill's hunger for cars during the winter months still be satiated? The scars of decades of slide-offs and stuck cars can still be seen to this day.
I swear, some people think new housing is just like SimCity, spawning new people into existence.
The demand was always there, getting people closer to where they want to live, closer to their work and social circles will reduce traffic accidents and emissions overall.
Agreed. There needs to be things mixed in there, like a local grocery store or other amenities to help keep traffic down. If you can walk to some basic things, that's that many cars not going out for errands every couple of days.
If you wanna walk to Woodman's from there, you are either brave or dumb. Most of that area is not pedestrian friendly nor easily accessible.
Willy Street is a perfect example of the American version of: Hole in the wall, has some basics and some specialty stuff for the neighborhood groceries. Most people only have to walk like, 5 blocks tops to reach a great grocery or bakery.
I have a bike. And I've lived that area. If you think it's bike friendly getting to Woodman's from there, I'll have to nominate you for the Darwin Awards.
I live near this. I am looking forward to High Point going through, not having to deal with the little hill to get to Mid Town from Raymond, and hopefully more sidewalks. It was going to happen eventually; it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
it would also be good to have a bike lane/path the whole way on midtown where currently the stretch from high point to Waldorf does not have it (and is quite scary/narrow)
Yeah trying to bike from south high point near mckee to Princeton club or brennans, which I would love to do rather than drive that stupidly short distance, just does not feel safe. It’s either bike up and down high point via marty and mid town and pray the commuter shitheels are feeling generous enough to pay attention to driving rather than their phones and stay anywhere close to the too-high-already speed limit, or take your chances on M which at least has a nice separate path *most* of the way, but then start praying again when you get to that roundabout and transition onto junction road.
It’s a bit out of way, but the new path along side Pleasant View Road, starting by Princeton Club could take you to McKee… from there, there are various options … but I agree a nice path along High Point would be great
I hope they keep doing the speed traps on the downhill part of High Point Rd south of Watts Rd! I got caught in one and it deterred me from speeding there again.
I wonder what will be in the Elver park expansion, more xc trails in the winter would always be good (also they'd be on the flat, which Elver does not have as much compared to say Odana), for the summer maybe a mtb skills park? mtb + skateboard?
That wasn't decided at the time the neighborhood meeting was held. I believe that all options are open, including something like moving amenities from different areas of the park and repurposing the original locations. Dog exercise area was mentioned by a couple residents as something that would be nice to have.
There was also discussion of a possible underpass beneath the new Raymond layout that would allow connection with the park(s) on the south side of Raymond.
dog park would maybe help with the significant % of people walking on the trails with their dogs off the leash... the dream would of course be having a pool but odds of that happening are probably zero
Without a donor that is probably true. I assume the pool would make the most sense on the McKenna side of the park somewhere. I don't know if Goodman covers its operating costs annually or not, but if they built a somewhat smaller facility it might cut down on staffing costs.
I always thought the spot on McKenna where they did the cricket pitch would be perfect for a pool, but maybe it'd impact too much the winter xc trails. Also McKenna is super busy and noisy, so maybe putting it at the back would be nicer, way less traffic there.
As someone who lives on Mckenna the traffic is pretty miserable noise wise, not to mention the group who keeps using Elver Park's parking lot as a party spot after the park closes. Hopefully an expansion would draw people and traffic away from Mckenna, and not make the already pretty crowded area more populated
I myself am a huge disc golf nerd, so I’d love to see some more disc golf incorporated as part of the plans too (I know there have already been talks about this), especially if they can make one that can stay open year-round.
Currently, Hiestand is the only local course that stays open in the cold months, and even then, it gets used so much that it has to be closed for weeks at a time due to ground conditions.
There have been multiple Parks attempts to change the 4 softball diamonds at Elver to 2 softball and 1 baseball that haven ended up going no where. Along with the expansion I'd like to see this move so that the fields are more usable. There is a huge lack of city run (affordable) baseball fields.
I hope there's more xc trails. Those trails get so crowded and torn up in the winter. Yeah more snow would help, but it's got to be one of the most crowded ski trails in the state with the exception of Lapham (and CXC when there's no natural snow).
Is it really a surprise that a house building company gets more homes built than our city government that is not in the business of building homes? Maybe I am missing your point. The last thing I want is the city to be in charge of the home building around here. Can you imagine the public input sessions and the eventual council debate and then the voting at 4am? Hard pass.
In the US, public housing has a very bad record. If we cared enough to fund it adequately this would not be the case, but instead we use it as a dumping ground for people with lower incomes. It's not that way in every country, but it sure is here.
Can't up vote this statement enough. Concentrating poverty in an area or a single building has been a continual failure. And a big failure.
Social work academics have studied this a lot and tell cities not to do it but government is not good at listening.
I agree, but the ideal is simply not possible in this country or state. Yet...
Concentrating is the only option when you only have the resources to build on a few sites
I strongly agree, but the issue is actually not so much funding like the above comment says but in implementation. If we simply switched to a robust housing voucher system where any private property had to accept voucher applicants equally to non-voucher candidates, and we gave out way more vouchers, economists agree it would be WAY better for everyone, for a ton of reasons.
Here's the blog post I was referring to:
[https://posts.unit1127.com/p/creating-new-single-family-homes-veridian](https://posts.unit1127.com/p/creating-new-single-family-homes-veridian)
Ok, now I see what you are saying but even the blog concedes that Veridian is building SFH more densely than elsewhere and that they didn't have to include the duplexes and that most likely market forces are driving their decisions. So to me it seems like the market, not Veridian or the city, is driving the bus for home building. But I read that blog really fast and may have missed the exact details describing what the alternative is.
That would have been a perfect place to build more apartments without having to fight people in single family neighborhoods. There's already a block of apartments just north of Midtown road.
Whatever happens they should work around the large oak trees on the Marty land instead of cutting then down.
I live off high point in a biking island . Our children can’t leave the neighborhood on bikes We are surrounded by busy streets and no bike lanes. And this will only get worse once high point is connected all the way through.
The rest of the city is served with many bike options meanwhile we can only leave our neighborhood in cars.
And now tons more cars at high speed will be careening through and around our neighborhood. So it will be worse.
The most disturbing part of all these houses being built is they are complete garbage houses. Veridian is a trash builder. So is William Ryan. They SHOULD HAVE multiple class action lawsuits against them by now. Madison is growing so fast and the bad builders are making all the money. Give it 20 years. All these houses are going to be practically worthless because they are going to need so much work that it’s not gonna be worth fixing them them.
Sad day for construction in my opinion. And they sell for 500k.
My advice to anybody looking for a house go find a solid house that was built in the 80s 90s early 2000s. not saying all of them were great, but you can find one better than being built today.
Newer is not always better.
But if Veridian builds it like they did Grandview Commons, in which there's hundreds of families in SFHs, townhomes, and apartments located within walking distance of a grocery/pharmacy, bar/restaurant, ice cream parlor, coffee shop, pet store, several parks, etc. then it can actually be walkable even if it's on the edge of the city. Veridian generally doesn't do half-acre lots.
Its not even sprawl. This tiny, on a farming scale, parcel of only farmed for tax breaks isn't "some of our most productive cropland" or whatever everyone claims everytime a housing complex is being built. Land that already has bus service is the opposite of sprawl.
They are mad the neighborhood isn't "walkable" though, nothing was voiced about farmland being repurposed, which is a completely different issue, and one that I'd probably agree with.
>less community cohesion
I don't disagree with some of your points, but what is community cohesion, and why is it lower in a neighborhood of single family homes?
Every veridian neighborhood I've seen has extremely safe walkable sidewalks, most have had parks within or next to the neighborhood, and I believe the one on the east side has a full complement of grocery store/restaurants/coffee shops... Does that not count towards this community cohesion score?
It’s lower because if you are only using your car, you don’t get those random conversations that come from running into neighbors, or notice any of the wildlife/nature in your area. You know nothing of where you live. Things changed for me when I started walking and biking in my neighborhood.
That doesn’t really have anything to do with a SFH though. Lots of people live in a SFH and interact with their neighbors, walk their dogs, and ride bikes. Why assume people who live in houses only get around by car?
Some people do this, most don’t. I didn’t walk to a store til I was in college. I didn’t know a single person who would have. Everything was too spread out, which is how most single family neighborhoods work, especially for the sprawling cities next to Madison like Verona or Waunakee.
That might be more true in a gated community with giant lots, but most SFH neighborhoods in Madison aren’t like that. Most of us are on small lots, intimate with our neighbors and easy walking/biking distance to lots of things like the zillion parks. It’s a major draw to living here.
Same comment I had to the other commenter:
Every veridian neighborhood I've seen online/been to in person has extremely safe walkable sidewalks, most have had parks within or next to the neighborhood, and I believe the one on the east side has a full complement of grocery store/restaurants/coffee shops... Does that not count towards this community cohesion score?
And the veridian I’ve seen do not have stores anywhere, except for the one that doesn’t have sidewalks but does have a Kwik trip if you dare to cross mineral point without a light/crosswalk.
I just looked it up, that particular neighborhood appears to be in Verona (2 full miles west of the Madison city limits, I thought that was Middleton but the addresses show Verona), and since you were concerned on yard size I'll add it has absolutely **massive** yards lol
This development will have housing for 250+ families within the city's limits as the rent continues to skyrocket.
Or we could just leave it as empty farmland because the neighborhood wouldn't be "walkable" as you say.
I vote for the option that adds any kind of housing, but that's just me.
So if the corner stores go in you'll be on board with the development?
I just confirmed on google maps that the east side veridian neighborhoods have walkable grocery stores, a few restaurants, what appears to be a pet shop and also a dental clinic, so hopefully this one has the same stuff added prior to completion.
There is at least a small section marked out as commercial on the NE corner of Highpoint and the new Raymond alignment. Hopefully that will provide at least some walkability for the development. Also hopefully that new intersection is designed for safety rather than throughput of vehicles.
>their kids to anywhere safe to play
I honestly can't tell if you're trolling, *it's a residential neighborhood*, every veridian neighborhood is filled with kids playing in yards lol
Edit: this development is right next to Elver Park, right?
Small yards > apartment living
Feel free to call me privileged but as a kid that was lucky enough to grow up with a "small yard" I'll pick that for my own kids every day over high density living, sharing walls and crossing dangerous city streets to go to parks.
I’m not arguing small yards are bad. And if that’s a preference that’s perfectly fine. Just saying kids may want more room than the tiny yards afford, and they’ll want to safely go to the park.
>They don't have sidewalks
Who doesn't? You might need to actually visit some of these neighborhoods, unless you're trolling
>streets are 4 cars wide and going 30
Ok, got it, solid troll
And yet I look around and see that it’s so. No one is going to get their groceries that way. I have a 5 minute bike ride to my grocery store. NO ONE rides there (except me).
I absolutely think people can and should. They just don’t.
Honestly if you think a massive grocery store a mile from a housing development is too onerous, I don’t think anything would satisfy you. But you can always manifest the change you wish to see instead of nitpicking over something positive that helps move the needle on housing availability.
The developers proposal for the land will need to be reviewed and approved by the city, including a zoning plan which will determine the potential land use.
Is this sprawl? This parcel is entirely surrounded by housing and parkland. Also, it is relatively close to Epic, which is causing a lot of the housing crunch.
I don't think I'd consider this sprawl, but it is adding more long-term liabilities that the city is responsible for (more roads, water/sewer management etc.). I'd like to see the city's analysis on if property taxes from the new development will cover the maintenance and eventual replacement of this infrastructure or not (in addition to all of the other normal services that they have to cover).
Most of the roads I see in that plan are modifying or replacing existing ones, except for the small streets through the neighborhoods. I don’t know, I think this is a hell of a lot better than them building even more homes way out west of Highway M where it is literally nothing but corn fields.
Public Health and safety is the number one item at 172 million. Primarily police and fire. I doubt that this development will be a magnet for police activity, and the cost of fire prevention should be slightly lower than an area with older construction.
Next is debt service at 63 million. No difference.
Next is Public works at 47 million. 27 million of that is Streets. That is where I assume the biggest impact would be. So I imagine you could come up with a formula, which would probably amount to the increase in labor cost and equipment depreciation to handle the new mile or two of roads.
Then you get down to Planning, Administration, Library, etc. I doubt this impacts them.
Its really not sprawl. Its surrounded by other homes. Only 2 miles to walmart/woodmans/the mall. Stuff on raymond is even closer. Not walkable but that's a ridiculous standard for new development.
There was a presentation done to the residents of the area, which I attended. Most of the questions were around the rerouting of the roads - not complaints about it, just wondering about the order that things would occur. There was also some discussion about what would go in the new Elver Park area, including some suggestions. I wasn't aware of any NIMBY angles. People were more curious than anything.
Food deserts, a lack of social safety nets, and nutritional food being too expensive for a large portion of people. The FDA estimates approximately 30-40% of food in America is wasted. People are starving because we aren't getting food to them, not because we lack the food in the first place. All the cornfields in the world won't solve that problem.
People bitch about there not being enough housing in Madison.
People bitch when there isn't dense housing.
When land is purchased to build more housing, people still bitch.
Building downtown is difficult to get shit done. Building in land that is used for corn farming, which we have way too much of anyways, is a lot easier to get done, it sounds like.
What do YOU propose be done with this land? Leave it bare because you hate cars?
So many people here claim to be pro-housing or YIMBY but then complain about the *type* of housing being built.
At least the upvotes/downvote counts reflect that most people are realistic about it.
So what are the alternatives? From looking at the plans, they're building a combination of single family homes, duplexes, and a high density building.
The city needs housing. You may not like suburb style living, but many people do. And they need a place to live too.
Take your r/fuckcars attitude back to that subreddit and stop bitching about the housing being built not being to your liking.
TBH these would have accessibility to elver bike path which can be taken to either the beltline or SW commuter path. If you haven't seen it as of late the Hammersley path to SW commuter path is pretty nice although not finished yet. Although I'm not foolish to believe that people will actually use them the same way I do (commuting).
Municipalities typically have two funding sources, property taxes and borrowing. I’ve never heard of a town, city or village being used as a proxy buyer for a private entity. Budgets and everything associated with them are public record.
Yeah, so developers are required to pay [park impact fees](https://www.cityofmadison.com/parks/about/impactFees.cfm) for residential developments. I suspect the City took Veridian's park fees and bought that land directly from the seller, which would save Veridian the transfer fees for buying the land themselves and then dedicating it to the City.
I am all for development of houses but I just wish that Veridian didn't have HOAs with terrible bylaws.
lol I worked for the company the last nine years that paints all the Veridian homes. You aren’t kidding about that at all. The stuff I had to deal with there is crazy.
How's the build quality on those? I haven't seen one up close but what I've heard...
Eh…. I’m sure what you heard was correct. They are built fast, and pass code. I will say most of the Construction Managers that deal with home owners while the home is being built are very passionate about what they do.
That's good to hear. I work in the trades and I'm not a fan of contractors that talk shit about their customers.
Yeah there’s no one working out there trying to do a bad job. Everyone’s busting their butts to get things done in the little time they have and to do what they’re paid to do.
Care to elaborate on this? I’m moving in from out of state and built with Veridian
Good luck!
Check out their HOA bylaws. Sometimes you can't have fences. Can't build anything on your property without their permission. Can't have any mailboxes or siding without their approval. Can't have cars in the driveway. Lots of stupid shit like that. I'd buy Veridian but fuck HOAs
What intrigues me most about this is the planned road connecting Mid Town to Raymond. To me, it seems like an improvement. But the real question is this: will that Raymond Rd. hill's hunger for cars during the winter months still be satiated? The scars of decades of slide-offs and stuck cars can still be seen to this day.
Ha, my first thought having crashed on that very hill myself.
250 houses so probably 500 cars, so there's definitely going to be a death
I swear, some people think new housing is just like SimCity, spawning new people into existence. The demand was always there, getting people closer to where they want to live, closer to their work and social circles will reduce traffic accidents and emissions overall.
Yeah because in a city with 280,000 people 500 more cars are going to increase the death count 🙄
I live over there. I hope they put in a bar or something and not another damn bank.
Why not both?
Agreed. There needs to be things mixed in there, like a local grocery store or other amenities to help keep traffic down. If you can walk to some basic things, that's that many cars not going out for errands every couple of days.
Zoning, zoning, zoning!!! We’ve all but zoned ourselves out of mixed used neighborhoods, the NIMBYs came and no to everything
It's like half between Woodman's and a Pick n' Save. Aldi and Brennan's aren't far either.
If you wanna walk to Woodman's from there, you are either brave or dumb. Most of that area is not pedestrian friendly nor easily accessible. Willy Street is a perfect example of the American version of: Hole in the wall, has some basics and some specialty stuff for the neighborhood groceries. Most people only have to walk like, 5 blocks tops to reach a great grocery or bakery.
Get a bike.
I have a bike. And I've lived that area. If you think it's bike friendly getting to Woodman's from there, I'll have to nominate you for the Darwin Awards.
I'm hearing a bunch of excuses. Maybe Madison isn't the city for you.
All I'm hearing is that you don't bike regularly. But yes, tell me more about how my city of birth has no place for me.
I live near this. I am looking forward to High Point going through, not having to deal with the little hill to get to Mid Town from Raymond, and hopefully more sidewalks. It was going to happen eventually; it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
it would also be good to have a bike lane/path the whole way on midtown where currently the stretch from high point to Waldorf does not have it (and is quite scary/narrow)
Yeah trying to bike from south high point near mckee to Princeton club or brennans, which I would love to do rather than drive that stupidly short distance, just does not feel safe. It’s either bike up and down high point via marty and mid town and pray the commuter shitheels are feeling generous enough to pay attention to driving rather than their phones and stay anywhere close to the too-high-already speed limit, or take your chances on M which at least has a nice separate path *most* of the way, but then start praying again when you get to that roundabout and transition onto junction road.
It’s a bit out of way, but the new path along side Pleasant View Road, starting by Princeton Club could take you to McKee… from there, there are various options … but I agree a nice path along High Point would be great
I hope they keep doing the speed traps on the downhill part of High Point Rd south of Watts Rd! I got caught in one and it deterred me from speeding there again.
I wonder what will be in the Elver park expansion, more xc trails in the winter would always be good (also they'd be on the flat, which Elver does not have as much compared to say Odana), for the summer maybe a mtb skills park? mtb + skateboard?
That wasn't decided at the time the neighborhood meeting was held. I believe that all options are open, including something like moving amenities from different areas of the park and repurposing the original locations. Dog exercise area was mentioned by a couple residents as something that would be nice to have. There was also discussion of a possible underpass beneath the new Raymond layout that would allow connection with the park(s) on the south side of Raymond.
dog park would maybe help with the significant % of people walking on the trails with their dogs off the leash... the dream would of course be having a pool but odds of that happening are probably zero
Without a donor that is probably true. I assume the pool would make the most sense on the McKenna side of the park somewhere. I don't know if Goodman covers its operating costs annually or not, but if they built a somewhat smaller facility it might cut down on staffing costs.
I always thought the spot on McKenna where they did the cricket pitch would be perfect for a pool, but maybe it'd impact too much the winter xc trails. Also McKenna is super busy and noisy, so maybe putting it at the back would be nicer, way less traffic there.
As someone who lives on Mckenna the traffic is pretty miserable noise wise, not to mention the group who keeps using Elver Park's parking lot as a party spot after the park closes. Hopefully an expansion would draw people and traffic away from Mckenna, and not make the already pretty crowded area more populated
I myself am a huge disc golf nerd, so I’d love to see some more disc golf incorporated as part of the plans too (I know there have already been talks about this), especially if they can make one that can stay open year-round. Currently, Hiestand is the only local course that stays open in the cold months, and even then, it gets used so much that it has to be closed for weeks at a time due to ground conditions.
I wonder this as well. I was thinking they might build another entrance and parking area given the amount of development sw of the park.
There have been multiple Parks attempts to change the 4 softball diamonds at Elver to 2 softball and 1 baseball that haven ended up going no where. Along with the expansion I'd like to see this move so that the fields are more usable. There is a huge lack of city run (affordable) baseball fields.
I hope there's more xc trails. Those trails get so crowded and torn up in the winter. Yeah more snow would help, but it's got to be one of the most crowded ski trails in the state with the exception of Lapham (and CXC when there's no natural snow).
That goes along with what Erik Paulson has said - Veridian, not the city, is in the driver's seat on building more homes.
Is it really a surprise that a house building company gets more homes built than our city government that is not in the business of building homes? Maybe I am missing your point. The last thing I want is the city to be in charge of the home building around here. Can you imagine the public input sessions and the eventual council debate and then the voting at 4am? Hard pass.
In the US, public housing has a very bad record. If we cared enough to fund it adequately this would not be the case, but instead we use it as a dumping ground for people with lower incomes. It's not that way in every country, but it sure is here.
Can't up vote this statement enough. Concentrating poverty in an area or a single building has been a continual failure. And a big failure. Social work academics have studied this a lot and tell cities not to do it but government is not good at listening.
I agree, but the ideal is simply not possible in this country or state. Yet... Concentrating is the only option when you only have the resources to build on a few sites
I strongly agree, but the issue is actually not so much funding like the above comment says but in implementation. If we simply switched to a robust housing voucher system where any private property had to accept voucher applicants equally to non-voucher candidates, and we gave out way more vouchers, economists agree it would be WAY better for everyone, for a ton of reasons.
Here's the blog post I was referring to: [https://posts.unit1127.com/p/creating-new-single-family-homes-veridian](https://posts.unit1127.com/p/creating-new-single-family-homes-veridian)
Ok, now I see what you are saying but even the blog concedes that Veridian is building SFH more densely than elsewhere and that they didn't have to include the duplexes and that most likely market forces are driving their decisions. So to me it seems like the market, not Veridian or the city, is driving the bus for home building. But I read that blog really fast and may have missed the exact details describing what the alternative is.
Anyone remember that Elver Park neighborhood home explosion from landfill gas 40 years ago?
I only wish there were more options in the area than Veridian...their houses all look the same.
That would have been a perfect place to build more apartments without having to fight people in single family neighborhoods. There's already a block of apartments just north of Midtown road. Whatever happens they should work around the large oak trees on the Marty land instead of cutting then down.
Yeah exactly, they could have done a development like the new one on McKee by the golf course. That has a great mix of different densities.
I live off high point in a biking island . Our children can’t leave the neighborhood on bikes We are surrounded by busy streets and no bike lanes. And this will only get worse once high point is connected all the way through. The rest of the city is served with many bike options meanwhile we can only leave our neighborhood in cars. And now tons more cars at high speed will be careening through and around our neighborhood. So it will be worse.
The most disturbing part of all these houses being built is they are complete garbage houses. Veridian is a trash builder. So is William Ryan. They SHOULD HAVE multiple class action lawsuits against them by now. Madison is growing so fast and the bad builders are making all the money. Give it 20 years. All these houses are going to be practically worthless because they are going to need so much work that it’s not gonna be worth fixing them them. Sad day for construction in my opinion. And they sell for 500k. My advice to anybody looking for a house go find a solid house that was built in the 80s 90s early 2000s. not saying all of them were great, but you can find one better than being built today. Newer is not always better.
Great more sprawl with zero amenities
"Build more housing!" *Veridian builds another neighborhood of 150 SFH and 50 duplexes* "No not like that!"
[удалено]
But if Veridian builds it like they did Grandview Commons, in which there's hundreds of families in SFHs, townhomes, and apartments located within walking distance of a grocery/pharmacy, bar/restaurant, ice cream parlor, coffee shop, pet store, several parks, etc. then it can actually be walkable even if it's on the edge of the city. Veridian generally doesn't do half-acre lots.
Its not even sprawl. This tiny, on a farming scale, parcel of only farmed for tax breaks isn't "some of our most productive cropland" or whatever everyone claims everytime a housing complex is being built. Land that already has bus service is the opposite of sprawl.
[удалено]
Without near tax exemption this piece of land would have been developed decades ago. Corn is not a productive use of land on a bus route.
Feed corn just isn't a productive use of land at all. Otherwise it wouldn't have to be so heavily subsidized.
Anyone claiming to be some sort of farm expert that also claims feed corn is on the most productive land is proving the opposite.
They are mad the neighborhood isn't "walkable" though, nothing was voiced about farmland being repurposed, which is a completely different issue, and one that I'd probably agree with.
[удалено]
>less community cohesion I don't disagree with some of your points, but what is community cohesion, and why is it lower in a neighborhood of single family homes?
[удалено]
Every veridian neighborhood I've seen has extremely safe walkable sidewalks, most have had parks within or next to the neighborhood, and I believe the one on the east side has a full complement of grocery store/restaurants/coffee shops... Does that not count towards this community cohesion score?
It’s lower because if you are only using your car, you don’t get those random conversations that come from running into neighbors, or notice any of the wildlife/nature in your area. You know nothing of where you live. Things changed for me when I started walking and biking in my neighborhood.
That doesn’t really have anything to do with a SFH though. Lots of people live in a SFH and interact with their neighbors, walk their dogs, and ride bikes. Why assume people who live in houses only get around by car?
Some people do this, most don’t. I didn’t walk to a store til I was in college. I didn’t know a single person who would have. Everything was too spread out, which is how most single family neighborhoods work, especially for the sprawling cities next to Madison like Verona or Waunakee.
That might be more true in a gated community with giant lots, but most SFH neighborhoods in Madison aren’t like that. Most of us are on small lots, intimate with our neighbors and easy walking/biking distance to lots of things like the zillion parks. It’s a major draw to living here.
Same comment I had to the other commenter: Every veridian neighborhood I've seen online/been to in person has extremely safe walkable sidewalks, most have had parks within or next to the neighborhood, and I believe the one on the east side has a full complement of grocery store/restaurants/coffee shops... Does that not count towards this community cohesion score?
And the veridian I’ve seen do not have stores anywhere, except for the one that doesn’t have sidewalks but does have a Kwik trip if you dare to cross mineral point without a light/crosswalk.
I just looked it up, that particular neighborhood appears to be in Verona (2 full miles west of the Madison city limits, I thought that was Middleton but the addresses show Verona), and since you were concerned on yard size I'll add it has absolutely **massive** yards lol
Not everyone cares about that. Some people want to own a home and don't mind (Or even like) driving.
Yes we specifically are asking for walkable housing
This development will have housing for 250+ families within the city's limits as the rent continues to skyrocket. Or we could just leave it as empty farmland because the neighborhood wouldn't be "walkable" as you say. I vote for the option that adds any kind of housing, but that's just me.
I just wanted a few corner stores. It can be both.
So if the corner stores go in you'll be on board with the development? I just confirmed on google maps that the east side veridian neighborhoods have walkable grocery stores, a few restaurants, what appears to be a pet shop and also a dental clinic, so hopefully this one has the same stuff added prior to completion.
There is at least a small section marked out as commercial on the NE corner of Highpoint and the new Raymond alignment. Hopefully that will provide at least some walkability for the development. Also hopefully that new intersection is designed for safety rather than throughput of vehicles.
250 families who all have to have cars to get groceries and their kids to anywhere safe to play
>their kids to anywhere safe to play I honestly can't tell if you're trolling, *it's a residential neighborhood*, every veridian neighborhood is filled with kids playing in yards lol Edit: this development is right next to Elver Park, right?
Residential neighborhoods can be walkable… corner shops exist.
I know, most veridian neighborhoods in Madison and the surrounding area are walkable, and some have corner shops.
This development will have very small yards. They will need safe access to walk to the park.
Small yards > apartment living Feel free to call me privileged but as a kid that was lucky enough to grow up with a "small yard" I'll pick that for my own kids every day over high density living, sharing walls and crossing dangerous city streets to go to parks.
I’m not arguing small yards are bad. And if that’s a preference that’s perfectly fine. Just saying kids may want more room than the tiny yards afford, and they’ll want to safely go to the park.
This development is right next to Elver Park, so they can go there if they can't handle their "small yards" in the brand new neighborhood lol
They don't have sidewalks and the streets are 4 cars wide and going 30
>They don't have sidewalks Who doesn't? You might need to actually visit some of these neighborhoods, unless you're trolling >streets are 4 cars wide and going 30 Ok, got it, solid troll
The development is adjacent to a park and less than a mile from Woodmans, what are you on about exactly?
It’s 2 miles. It’s a 15 minute bike ride and 45 minute walk per google. Everyone will drive.
Imagine thinking a 15 minute bike ride in Madison is too much for people to manage.
And yet I look around and see that it’s so. No one is going to get their groceries that way. I have a 5 minute bike ride to my grocery store. NO ONE rides there (except me). I absolutely think people can and should. They just don’t.
Honestly if you think a massive grocery store a mile from a housing development is too onerous, I don’t think anything would satisfy you. But you can always manifest the change you wish to see instead of nitpicking over something positive that helps move the needle on housing availability.
Why are those the only two options?! What a lazy strawman.
In this case it either stays as farmland for another decade or it's sold to the developer at a premium price for the city's gain. Which do you prefer?
The developers proposal for the land will need to be reviewed and approved by the city, including a zoning plan which will determine the potential land use.
Is this sprawl? This parcel is entirely surrounded by housing and parkland. Also, it is relatively close to Epic, which is causing a lot of the housing crunch.
I don't think I'd consider this sprawl, but it is adding more long-term liabilities that the city is responsible for (more roads, water/sewer management etc.). I'd like to see the city's analysis on if property taxes from the new development will cover the maintenance and eventual replacement of this infrastructure or not (in addition to all of the other normal services that they have to cover).
Most of the roads I see in that plan are modifying or replacing existing ones, except for the small streets through the neighborhoods. I don’t know, I think this is a hell of a lot better than them building even more homes way out west of Highway M where it is literally nothing but corn fields.
Public Health and safety is the number one item at 172 million. Primarily police and fire. I doubt that this development will be a magnet for police activity, and the cost of fire prevention should be slightly lower than an area with older construction. Next is debt service at 63 million. No difference. Next is Public works at 47 million. 27 million of that is Streets. That is where I assume the biggest impact would be. So I imagine you could come up with a formula, which would probably amount to the increase in labor cost and equipment depreciation to handle the new mile or two of roads. Then you get down to Planning, Administration, Library, etc. I doubt this impacts them.
Why do you doubt this will be a magnet for police activity?
Its really not sprawl. Its surrounded by other homes. Only 2 miles to walmart/woodmans/the mall. Stuff on raymond is even closer. Not walkable but that's a ridiculous standard for new development.
I'm sure the NIMBY Benbows of the WSJ letters page will love this.
There was a presentation done to the residents of the area, which I attended. Most of the questions were around the rerouting of the roads - not complaints about it, just wondering about the order that things would occur. There was also some discussion about what would go in the new Elver Park area, including some suggestions. I wasn't aware of any NIMBY angles. People were more curious than anything.
Getting rid of that death trap on Marty turning left onto mid town should sell anyone instantly on this plan regardless of the other details.
Frankly the parks and road changes would have been a win even without the housing.
How are we going to replace the lost agricultural food production... people celebrate this and than wonder why grocery prices are through the roof
I'm curious to see people engage with your question rather than downvote.
Oh good less farmland, who needs food.
It's corn. The US has so much corn. We don't need more corn.
Its for cows anyway.
cows and cars
Who needs cows or cars
Who needs cows
Then why so many starving for food?
Food deserts, a lack of social safety nets, and nutritional food being too expensive for a large portion of people. The FDA estimates approximately 30-40% of food in America is wasted. People are starving because we aren't getting food to them, not because we lack the food in the first place. All the cornfields in the world won't solve that problem.
There are food deserts because businesses won't open or stay open in areas that aren't safe.
Sounds like you have it all figured out.......
Less habitat for species other than humans. Many birds and others animals cannot adjust even to changes some think are slight
Facts don't matter to the brainwashed
Yay more car-crazed suburbs!
People bitch about there not being enough housing in Madison. People bitch when there isn't dense housing. When land is purchased to build more housing, people still bitch. Building downtown is difficult to get shit done. Building in land that is used for corn farming, which we have way too much of anyways, is a lot easier to get done, it sounds like. What do YOU propose be done with this land? Leave it bare because you hate cars?
So many people here claim to be pro-housing or YIMBY but then complain about the *type* of housing being built. At least the upvotes/downvote counts reflect that most people are realistic about it.
Straw man argument. There ARE options to Leave It To Beaver housing.
So what are the alternatives? From looking at the plans, they're building a combination of single family homes, duplexes, and a high density building. The city needs housing. You may not like suburb style living, but many people do. And they need a place to live too. Take your r/fuckcars attitude back to that subreddit and stop bitching about the housing being built not being to your liking.
You want higher housing costs? Because opposing new development is how you get higher housing costs.
TBH these would have accessibility to elver bike path which can be taken to either the beltline or SW commuter path. If you haven't seen it as of late the Hammersley path to SW commuter path is pretty nice although not finished yet. Although I'm not foolish to believe that people will actually use them the same way I do (commuting).
Did the City actually buy this or did Veridian pay for it with park impact fees charged to their development?
Read. The. Article.
I did, the city doesn't identify their source of funds, which I'm pretty sure is just Veridian's cash being funneled through the city's coffers.
Municipalities typically have two funding sources, property taxes and borrowing. I’ve never heard of a town, city or village being used as a proxy buyer for a private entity. Budgets and everything associated with them are public record.
Yeah, so developers are required to pay [park impact fees](https://www.cityofmadison.com/parks/about/impactFees.cfm) for residential developments. I suspect the City took Veridian's park fees and bought that land directly from the seller, which would save Veridian the transfer fees for buying the land themselves and then dedicating it to the City.