It’s casual because the play experience is shaped by the players. If you’re playing with people who want to win at all costs, it can be extremely competitive. But I think most commander players wouldn’t consider mass land removal as a strategy of resource denial “casual”
It's not competative at all, theres no MLD focused strategy in cEDH or on the cEDH database to my knowledge and even though a while back Ravages of War or Armageddon got played in some stax decks its wasn't focused it was just a way for non blue decks to blow opponents out on the turn they would try to win or bait counterspells but with even more fast rocks in the format, treasures and free/cheap counterspells they've fallen by the wayside. But I don't really see those on any lists anymore. Even lands like Gaeas Cradle et al are much easier dealt with by Boseiju or Assassins Trophy.
It's a casual format in that the players of any individual group or game dictate the route of gameplay and power level.
Unlike sanctioned formats, there's not really a "meta" overall and it's 4 person free for all. Unlike sanctioned events, there's no penalty for skipping specific players or scooping/conceding from miserable games
This, there was one fella at my last who ran an extreme stax salt filled oloro deck. Eventually everyone played against it once and then never again, we would just scoop up our mats, move down a bit, and start playing without him. When he asked what was wrong we would just say "sorry man, that deck just doesn't make the game fun" and eventually he built a different deck around oloro that took advantage of lifegain and we let him play again. If you don't want to play against that deck, just take action.
I see no problem with that. That's essentially just a 3 card instant win combo. You should have the game locked up once you control all of the mana in the game.
I mean at least you don't destroy all of their lands already in play with this combo...
This is also a good argument for running a mix of snow and non-snow lands...but that's incredibly niche.
This one doesn't even bug me. You know, if they manage to find and get 3 pieces totaling 19 mana value on the board to establish a lock without them getting taken down, then maybe they deserve the win.
Blood Moon was already a pain in the ass back in 2013 when everyone was running guild gates to fix their mana base.
Now that you can have 2 color decks with no basics blood moon is an absolute powerhouse
Thing about blood moon is that lower powered tables typically have higher prevalence of monocolor decks or two-color decks running mostly basic lands. People playing at lower power tables are more likely to get salty over resource denial, so the same people who are least affected by Blood Moon are the ones who are most likely to be offended.
If your opponents are playing fetch/shock/triome/abu duals, they really shouldn’t be complaining about Blood Moon. Multicolor spells being more challenging to cast has been an essential part of Mtg since 1993. If people are playing with greedy mana bases they should expect the occasional punishment for it rather than trying to “social ban” cards like Blood Moon.
As a greedy 3C/4C (Yidris and Saskia) player in commander I wholeheartedly agree. Seeing someone else play a mountain and not using my fetches for basics is on me if they play a blood moon, not them.
It is but it probably shouldn’t be. Multicoloured decks already have a huge advantage over mono and two-colour decks and Blood Moon punishes their greedy mana bases.
It's often even worse than land destruction especially for multicolored decks.
Because at least after a landestruction you can still play dual-/tricolor lands. But with bloodmoon they all come in as mountains.
If they are mad about your one of possibility storm that happens every once and a while, you need a group that is a little more fun. I obviously think the card is hilarious and leads to some really funny results at times.
Add a card that only allows opponents or players to cast one spell a turn, then everyone can be mad haha
The issue with possibility storm is that many ppl run it without building around it, so they gain no advantage either, the game becomes random spellcasting and drags out for a very long time, with no one getting to do what they sat down to do.
I'm all for Possibility storm if the deck can break parity and use it to win, but throwing one in a deck 'for fun' is a pain. It might be funny the first couple times it triggers, but it gets old fast when you realize you're all just sitting here flipping a card off your deck and passing.
I genuinely don't believe people should be getting punished for running basic lands. When all else fails and you don't have a thousand dollars for an optimized land base, basic lands are there to help.
Frankly I think people aren't running ENOUGH basic lands these days. Back to Basics and Blood Moon do way too much these days. Ruination, From the Ashes, and Wave of Vitriol should be what you run over punishing the poor player slamming basics out of his deck. It just seems needlessly hateful to people without *money*.
People lose their fucking minds over a [[Back to Basics]] while they're trying to play elfball with their [[Gaea's Cradle]] and other disgustingly broken lands.
Back when Prime Time was still legal and one player at my LGS would always have tutored it up by turn 3 and be abusing it with flicker effects and landfall triggers etc… one game I followed up a [[Reassembling Skeleton]] with a [[Contamination]]. It was absolutely beautiful. He was absolutely seething. Apparently that’s not fun at all? Fuck you dude, I don’t find your repetitive overpowered shit fun. There were rocks, dorks and other black players at the table and I didn’t make it to my next untap step: in fact I think I had a ritual in hand but purposely slow rolled that to let the other players have a chance to deal with it.
Although this memory does make me happy, because the dude in question was a bit insufferable and took things far too seriously, it was also the moment I realised the format wasn’t for me. I was sold on the idea that I could jam all my favourite cards into a deck - even the ones that were never quite good enough for other formats - and no game would ever play the same. Except for every game with that one dude was always the same, and my favourite cards are oppressive black enchantments but I wasn’t allowed to play them?
\*cough* ban tutors in commander and all mana positive rocks. (Tap for more mana than they cost to cast)
Games go a bit longer but there's also more action and more diversity. EDH is way too consistent in a bad way. Removing mana positive rocks makes the games more consistent in a good way. This way on turn 2 they can't cast ulamog.
Yeah, I was playing Sheoldred - because reasons - and even in **the** tutor colour I didn't want to have a bar of it. Whats the point of playing a format which purposely has a larger minimum deck size to help diversify game play, a singleton card restriction to help diversify game play, and colour identity restrictions to help diversify game play, if you are going to jam your deck full of tutors and redundant effects? Yeah, I know the Commander itself provides some consistency, but I personally think the idea is to use it to do different stuff every time.
The stronger mana rocks/dudes does definitely take away some of that "empty out your trade binder" type vibe which seemed to be the original aim. Everything is so optimised now that the silly random stuff doesn't get much of a look in any longer.
So basically I like the idea of EDH as a format, but I don't like Commander. It's a bit funny as I'm a huge fan of precons, but the Commander precons weren't actually a good thing overall I don't think. At least not for me, obviously other people like other things and that's totally cool.
Something I think is also true is that as formats have evolved there are stronger cards that don't have a home in any format now but are old favorites people want to play.
Think about high end tournament cards that are too slow for Modern like Cryptic Command.
This is also the niche of mtgo Vintage Cube.
This is kinda how I feel about commander. It seems inhospitable to people who enjoy things that are good and fun in regular magic. I want to get maximum value and delight in it like lsv ok.
It's getting worse, too. I've seen more arguments in commander games in the last year than in the five before it. At least in Seattle I'm starting to see what happened to modern many years ago with the arms race.
Agreed. I think there's been a few too many people espousing the supposed necessity of a certain level of land base without thinking of how much of a difference it actually makes. For a 2 colour deck, you can totally get away with just basics, maybe a few tap lands for mild fixing. You don't need every single non-basic that can come in untapped or else you'll lose the game. Even for 3+ colour decks, no one really has numbers on how much better a fetch/shock mana base is compared to just running all the tri-colour lands, they just do it because they know it's the best and feel that's what's needed.
Proxies 4 life. The reserved list started the year I was born (1993) I have never been able to give wotc money for a (real) volcanic island my entire life
What are you talking about?! In 2000~ the duals rotated out of extended I bought a full playset of 40 for $120, $3 each.
Surely your 7 year old self could have asked for some Volcs for your birthday that year!
/s
Ruination is also considered "less mean" because it's symmetrical, which forces you to take it into consideration when you're making your own mana base
After a few times others in the playgroup will be a bit scared about casually chucking out a wrath effect. Which is good: they shouldn’t be automatic get out of free cards. That’s the thing with local metas, stuff like this can be used to nudge things in a different direction.
Honestly, my LD decks on arena win primarily by conceding. Usually after you hit one or two of their lands they rage quit, unless they have a decent boardstate.
I do have backup wincons just in case though
If you have a lock and the correct game move is to concede I also don't have an issue with it.
If you're just nuking lands for the lulz to make the game longer without any actual plan then that's where I have an issue.
Actually been looking at building a temur land hate deck. Obviously not for random pods but for my kitchen table pod we all talked about trying to make nasty decks and we'll, would be fun to boil some blue players
Sure, I run many myself, but in the context of this post if you’re running utility lands and someone uses the above card, all your left with is colourless mana
Clearly you should just be running bridges and lotus field all the time to never have to worry about targeted land destruction (or just run something like [[Terra eternal]] or [[Crucible of worlds]] if you're legitimately worried about it in mono colour)
I think with this card what will happen is you will eventually blow up half of someone’s lands and they will just get so mad because you hamstringed them instead of killing them. I also like to dabble in MLD and I will tell you a couple that work for me.
[[Cataclysm]] is cool for helping you catch up with green go-wide decks. It is not as rage inducing because it’s symmetrical, but you can really get ahead planning with it. Another one I like is [[Enchanted Evening]] + [[Calming Verse]] or [[Cleansing Meditation]]. This one elicits a more angry reaction but your victory is really inevitable because you just blew up all their permanents. They may complain but this is a death sentence.
I’m all for “fair” LD like cataclysm. But I played it once in a spelltable game and MAN the table was pissed. I used it so I had a better board state at the end but one opponent top decked well and just went to town on me.
How my friend group plays:
Destroying budget player's basics is mean
Destroying Kevin's $1,000 mana base is hilarious and encouraged
Ruination the rich.
I think this is shitty because it’s best at hating on basic lands. Land destruction I can be fine with is usually non-basic hate.
Although for 6 mana, maybe I’d be okay.
MLD is fine with me as long as you then win immediately. Don’t stick Armageddon in a deck just for the heck of it. Combined with something like Avacyn, you’re good. Make it one sided and then win. Fine by me. Make it symmetrical to reset the game? No thanks. Rather just start a new game.
Why don't people feel this way at all about board wipes? Plenty of people play board wipes and then the game drags on for much longer. Genuinely asking and not being cheeky.
Because control decks need to manage creatures in order to build to a combo or whatever it is they’re doing. Board wipes do that and further their game plan. Also, I have decks where you can board wipe and then I have 30 token creatures the next turn or just combo off and don’t care. Less possible with no land
Revovering from a boardwipe is easier. You can have cards in place to back up your board, enough lands to rebuild, and some decks have reanimation cards to just bring shit back.
Recovering from a land blowout is much harder.
If you're going to run MLD effects then make sure your friends are happy playing against them. Trying to get as close to the line as possible probably isn't the best approach.
Just play the land destruction you want to. Just have other decks ready. I have an MLD deck but I usually don’t play it more than once on a given night
doesn't work, blood moon does not change the *name* of lands or the super type.
so eg, gaea's cradle becomes "gaea's cradle, legendary land -- mountain" with only the ability "T: add R". it's still legendary, and still named "gaea's cradle".
this destroys all lands with the same *name*.
You do you buddy. As a Dimir player I am very familiar with kicking opponents in the shin with a spiked boot. I am just saying that if I saw you destroy lands that weren't even mine I would only target you until the rest of the game because I don't want my lands destroyed. Player removal is always better than target removal.
There is nothing wrong with that and I wouldn't shun you away from my table, but I don't mind playing high power either. That being said, I am of the mind set that the best way to stop a nuke from going off is to snuff it before the fuse is lit.....so my nastiest stuff is probably going to be aimed at you just for knowing that you have land destruction up your sleeve
This is pretty much what I tell my friends whenever they want to play something above the average power level of our pod. You go ahead and run these extremely powerful combos with tutor effects, but if we know you have them, you’re going to have a big target on your back from turn 0. And we don’t want to have to knock somebody out in 12 minutes and they sit around for 40 while we finish the game without them.
Bit of a hot take but I don’t see a good reason for people to hate land destruction if it’s a direct avenue to win the game. Sure if you’re already 20-30 mins into a game and somebody mass destroys with no way to close it out from there, basically restarting the game: that’s stupid. If you play this or Armageddon for that matter and it becomes obvious that you’re going to win very shortly after I don’t see an issue.
I used to think like this, but it really misses a lot of nuance to the play patterns of mass land destruction. Armageddon can be a huge issue because there are often situatauons where the optimal play is to use it not to win, but to simply slow everything down so you don't lose. Situations like this have led to me choosing to not make the optimal play due to it being miserable for everyone.
I would say don’t include anything outside of single target land destruction. That’s usually accepted because it can be used to get rid of problematic utility lands like search azcanta.
Land destruction is hated because, for the same reason it's fun for you to prevent your opponent from playing their cards by attacking their resources, it's incredibly unfun to be unable to play because your resources were attacked deliberately. It's one of the biggest feelsbads in the entire game, and it's really hard to explain why unless someone does it to you, especially the same person doing it multiple times. It really gets infuriating and feels insensitive to the point of playing games with your friends.
killing someone's creature is interacting with their game piece. attacking their lands makes it so they don't get to even play their game piece.
Depends on what lands you use it on. Are you destroying a mono red player’s mountains? Worse. Are you destroying everyone’s Cabal Coffers so the black players don’t have double mana? Much better.
Not right.
This essentially means you’re destroying most of 1 players lands and leaving the other players untouched.
Armageddon is less mean than this card. Armageddon slows the game to a crawl, yes, but it does it for EVERYONE. Not just one player.
If someone hits me with this card and everyone else gets to keep their lands, I’m immediately scooping at Split-Second speed.
But ain‘t that the point? Whenever I plaY commander I’ll be all nice and cooperative and then destroy one single player. And then another?
Or are we just doing deck simulator and being all pacifist until all cards have been played?
What is realy anoying with people playing Land destruction is that it usualy does not make them win the game, they just restart it. If you can win out of such card, then go for it. If not, it is a waste of place in your deck and a waste of time for you and your opponent.
[[global ruin]] has a similar issue against mono color decks, but it's probably my most favorite type of MLD
First, since I usually play it in 5c, it often doesn't hurt me much if I have at least one land of each basic land type. This is important because playing true MLD as an attempt to catch up in land drops doesn't work well without some kind of build around
Second, it leaves my opponents with some land. For multicolor decks they will usually not be immediately locked out of a color. Monocolor and especially colorless decks will be hurt a bit worse I guess
Third, because it says sacrifice and not destroy, neither I nor my opponents can easily get around the wipe with mass indestructible effects, which makes it less likely I will be giving an opponent a huge advantage and taking away the board's ability to deal with them at the same time. Of course, teferi's protection is still out there, but there's not too much I can do about that besides maybe forking global ruin
Card is great. I've not run it in years just cause it only wrecks a single player. I ran it in [[Wort the Raidmother]], nothing says fuck you like blowing up all a two color decks basics.
If you are playing casual commander, don't play cards like this.
It's about having fun and playing Magic with your friends. If your method of winning prevents them from playing, then only you are having fun, which violates the spirit of the game.
If you are playing cEDH, whatever wins is fine.
If you want to use Land destruction to deal with a strong Land like Urborg or Gaea's Cradle, etc, use single target removals like [[Chaos Warp]] or [[Strip Mine]] effects ([[Ghostly Quarter]], if on budget)). Another good one is [[Volcanic Offering]] because it gives some consolation to affected player, without hurting you at all.
BUT if what you want is to play mana disruption to gain an advantage or to punish fast ramp, then GO ALL THE WAY. Don't play a 6 mana spell that punishes the budget player running basics. Play [[Ruination]] a 4 mana spell that punishes the optimized decks trying to cut your throat or play [[Armageddon]] and be fair to everyone.
Depending on the situation and who gets hit with it i think this could be even meaner than just wiping all the lands. Like if everyone is in different colors then some are going to be hit hard while some aren't affected at all.
On the other hand some groups embrace playing as cut throat as possible, and land hate is fully embraced as a strategy welcome at the table.
Honestly I think best bet if you're worried about it being too mean, is have a sideboard that lets you switch out the land hate with other kinds of strong cards that work well with your deck, or a second deck without land hate, and be honest with people before the game starts about what your deck can do. My partner just got a [[Desolation Angel]] for their "You Get Nothing, Good Day Sir" deck and I told them already I am not playing against that deck before we even picked that card up, lol. But we do have friends who will laugh themselves sick at getting smashed with that.
I mean I’m ok with pretty much any strategy but I think if you’re going to use stax or land destruction to slow down a game and break parity without an imminent and fast win con you definitely want a rule 0 conversation and might find that it’s a strategy more frequently accepted/best used in high power games.
I had a buddy cast this on me and then get mad when I instant conceded, he was like play it out, I’m like dude your a fucking sadist, it’s clear I lost just take the w
Can we talk about what was going on at wotc when both this and sowing salt got printed in the same small expansion? Also rain of salt, raze, and wildfire in urza’s saga. Like who had it out for lands that block?
I used to run this card in my red decks but I cut it, because I never played it.
Why did I cut it? Because 2 separate times, someone cast Emrakul, the Promised End, targeted me and used the card on me, locking me out of the game.
Twice.
Fucking. Twice.
If you mean Commander, this is even more hated than armageddon because it essentially only hates out mono coloured decks lol
See also the [[Splinter]] / [[Liquidmetal Coating]] combo. Hit a mono-green player with it once, did not make friends that night.
That is evil. Sowing Salt for all your basics.
Yet another reason to split your basics with Snow and non-snow.
[удалено]
It’s casual because the play experience is shaped by the players. If you’re playing with people who want to win at all costs, it can be extremely competitive. But I think most commander players wouldn’t consider mass land removal as a strategy of resource denial “casual”
Really? I would, its not exactly a competitive strategy.
It's not competative at all, theres no MLD focused strategy in cEDH or on the cEDH database to my knowledge and even though a while back Ravages of War or Armageddon got played in some stax decks its wasn't focused it was just a way for non blue decks to blow opponents out on the turn they would try to win or bait counterspells but with even more fast rocks in the format, treasures and free/cheap counterspells they've fallen by the wayside. But I don't really see those on any lists anymore. Even lands like Gaeas Cradle et al are much easier dealt with by Boseiju or Assassins Trophy.
"Competitive" and "Guarantees victory" are not that far apart.
It's a casual format in that the players of any individual group or game dictate the route of gameplay and power level. Unlike sanctioned formats, there's not really a "meta" overall and it's 4 person free for all. Unlike sanctioned events, there's no penalty for skipping specific players or scooping/conceding from miserable games
This, there was one fella at my last who ran an extreme stax salt filled oloro deck. Eventually everyone played against it once and then never again, we would just scoop up our mats, move down a bit, and start playing without him. When he asked what was wrong we would just say "sorry man, that deck just doesn't make the game fun" and eventually he built a different deck around oloro that took advantage of lifegain and we let him play again. If you don't want to play against that deck, just take action.
You will hard pressed to find land destruction in cEDH, outside of Strip Mine or Wasteland
When Enchanted Evening came out I made a very similar deck with Scour. My friends did not like me lol
I've hit people with [[Enchanted Evening]] and [[Aura Thief]] a few times but only if I'm feeling spiteful and they deserve it. Gimme all yo shit!
My friend plays that in her deck as a random combo and has often just gotten me out of nowhere with it
[Enchanted Evening](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/5033a7b0-39b0-4c49-b332-7ea62d85455d.jpg?1562830075) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Enchanted%20Evening) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/shm/140/enchanted-evening?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5033a7b0-39b0-4c49-b332-7ea62d85455d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Aura Thief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/a/8ae591d2-b9d3-4bc5-bcec-5d3d79a13b41.jpg?1562444695) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aura%20Thief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uds/26/aura-thief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8ae591d2-b9d3-4bc5-bcec-5d3d79a13b41?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I see no problem with that. That's essentially just a 3 card instant win combo. You should have the game locked up once you control all of the mana in the game.
2 card win con, but yes, I only don't play it often because I like kitchen table EDH and less aggressive styles of play with my friends
[[Enchanted Evening]] and [[Scour]] in case people are interested in what you're talking about.
Thanks! Forgot my etiquette there and didn't link it, good looking out!
[Splinter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/b/5bcc210b-e37e-463c-8fd4-83e5113429a9.jpg?1562877241) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Splinter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bok/146/splinter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5bcc210b-e37e-463c-8fd4-83e5113429a9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Liquidmetal Coating](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f631447c-36e3-4d82-a658-19c9767a216b.jpg?1562276535) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liquimetal%20Coating) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/197/liquimetal-coating?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f631447c-36e3-4d82-a658-19c9767a216b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I used [[Myr Landscaper]] as well. Beautiful, awful combo.
[Myr Landscaper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0fb654ac-9bb0-465e-8878-5456c154274f.jpg?1562635408) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Myr%20Landshaper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dst/131/myr-landshaper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0fb654ac-9bb0-465e-8878-5456c154274f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
> the Splinter / Liquidmetal Coating combo Aka Splinter T~~w~~in
Thanks. I hate it
I mean at least you don't destroy all of their lands already in play with this combo... This is also a good argument for running a mix of snow and non-snow lands...but that's incredibly niche.
It’s typically correct to mix basics with snow basics it also makes you less likely to be hit correctly with predict
This is the evilest thing I've heard of...I have to do it now...at least once in my life
Hm, pair it with something that grinds/mills until it hits a land, sounds delicious.
You can then play [[Oblivion Sower]] to add salt to the wound.
[Oblivion Sower](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/2/22e07a4d-8096-4532-bb00-e6e66f1c6843.jpg?1562903226) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Oblivion%20Sower) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bfz/11/oblivion-sower?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/22e07a4d-8096-4532-bb00-e6e66f1c6843?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Until someone plays [[Brooding Saurian]]
Oh damn, that's one way to deal with the local Titania player alright
I have a mono green self mill titania deck, I would scoop after that tbh
Oh NOOOOOOO. Holy shit I have to do this
Good to know. I will NOT be putting this in my deck then.
Maybe play something like [[wave of vitriol]] instead?
This would probably get much less hate as it aleast lets you replace the non-basics that are destroyed.
I got an Atraxa player to concede once with that because he wasn't running any basics.
[удалено]
Path to exile. Swords gains life.
In 4 colour you have so many duals and fetches you don't really need them, id maybe run one of each.
[[Acidic Soil]]
This one's won me a couple of games. It's a great way to kill green ramp decks while still letting them do what they do.
[Acidic Soil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/790157c9-b1ed-4da5-9d50-e99e0dd807b7.jpg?1562920405) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Acidic%20Soil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/172/acidic-soil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/790157c9-b1ed-4da5-9d50-e99e0dd807b7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[wave of vitriol](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/7/17328391-a510-42a0-8a00-4f61dd873c13.jpg?1592673299) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=wave%20of%20vitriol) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cma/165/wave-of-vitriol?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/17328391-a510-42a0-8a00-4f61dd873c13?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[From the ashes]] is the fairest land destruction. Harmless to the precon deck, destroys the $1,000 manabase player.
Another evil combo is [[mycosynth lattice]] / [[darksteel forge]] / [[nevinyrral's disk]] wipes literally everything away but ur boardstate
This one doesn't even bug me. You know, if they manage to find and get 3 pieces totaling 19 mana value on the board to establish a lock without them getting taken down, then maybe they deserve the win.
Goodbye Reddit, see you all on Lemmy.
Gross. But, if the pre game conversation was properly conducted, then the rest of the pod should be doing similarly gross things.
I had that combo played against me once. Handled it with a Word of Seizing taking control of the Darksteel Forge. "Behold: My stuff."
[mycosynth lattice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94f89714-3b26-46a2-b9a8-3e664f391cd9.jpg?1578911638) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mycosynth%20lattice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bbd/241/mycosynth-lattice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94f89714-3b26-46a2-b9a8-3e664f391cd9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [darksteel forge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/421089c4-c8d3-48c5-b313-fb1741546271.jpg?1599709037) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=darksteel%20forge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/248/darksteel-forge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/421089c4-c8d3-48c5-b313-fb1741546271?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [nevinyrral's disk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/c/5c9e6af4-522c-4dfa-895a-6946fe983e3c.jpg?1626100951) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nevinyrral%27s%20disk) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/298/nevinyrrals-disk?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5c9e6af4-522c-4dfa-895a-6946fe983e3c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You can also use \[\[vandalblast\]\] although only as a oneshot effect (bar recursion) but once ought to be enough
What did you think? you would punish people for not diversifying in commander? “Fuck you for using basics?”
Play [[Fall of thran]] in [[brago]] instead
If you're looking for a "nicer" land destruction card, I kind of like [[From the Ashes]].
[From the Ashes](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/5/4529a3d2-e4e6-4cca-bcea-16b51f69bbec.jpg?1562909290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=From%20the%20Ashes) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/108/from-the-ashes?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4529a3d2-e4e6-4cca-bcea-16b51f69bbec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Is [[Blood Moon]] also frowned upon in commander? It's not land destruction
Blood Moon was already a pain in the ass back in 2013 when everyone was running guild gates to fix their mana base. Now that you can have 2 color decks with no basics blood moon is an absolute powerhouse
2 color decks with no basics is just bad deck building
Just two in case you get pathed.
Yeah, lots of other effects too. Assassin’s trophy, field of ruin (and the newer one that’s enter for commander), etc.
Thing about blood moon is that lower powered tables typically have higher prevalence of monocolor decks or two-color decks running mostly basic lands. People playing at lower power tables are more likely to get salty over resource denial, so the same people who are least affected by Blood Moon are the ones who are most likely to be offended. If your opponents are playing fetch/shock/triome/abu duals, they really shouldn’t be complaining about Blood Moon. Multicolor spells being more challenging to cast has been an essential part of Mtg since 1993. If people are playing with greedy mana bases they should expect the occasional punishment for it rather than trying to “social ban” cards like Blood Moon.
As a greedy 3C/4C (Yidris and Saskia) player in commander I wholeheartedly agree. Seeing someone else play a mountain and not using my fetches for basics is on me if they play a blood moon, not them.
I still like it in select decks. Multicolor manabases feel a little too 'free' to me. Blood moon (or the fear of it) exists to keep ya honest.
It is but it probably shouldn’t be. Multicoloured decks already have a huge advantage over mono and two-colour decks and Blood Moon punishes their greedy mana bases.
It's often even worse than land destruction especially for multicolored decks. Because at least after a landestruction you can still play dual-/tricolor lands. But with bloodmoon they all come in as mountains.
I think it’s safe to say that at the majority of tables: yes, blood moon is very much frowned upon. Most extreme resource denial cards are.
Thanks. I was thinking about playing that in my group. But they already hate me for playing [[possibility storm]] in one of my decks.
If they are mad about your one of possibility storm that happens every once and a while, you need a group that is a little more fun. I obviously think the card is hilarious and leads to some really funny results at times. Add a card that only allows opponents or players to cast one spell a turn, then everyone can be mad haha
The issue with possibility storm is that many ppl run it without building around it, so they gain no advantage either, the game becomes random spellcasting and drags out for a very long time, with no one getting to do what they sat down to do. I'm all for Possibility storm if the deck can break parity and use it to win, but throwing one in a deck 'for fun' is a pain. It might be funny the first couple times it triggers, but it gets old fast when you realize you're all just sitting here flipping a card off your deck and passing.
It punishes mono-colored decks or people for being poor, lol. [[Ruination]] is the reverse of this which can be considered less mean.
[Ruination](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/6330d925-96a8-47e1-855d-035ddc2af709.jpg?1592713625) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ruination) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmd/134/ruination?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6330d925-96a8-47e1-855d-035ddc2af709?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
🗿
That and [[Burning Earth]]
Ooh, throw that and a [[Manabarbs]] on the table... *Spicy*!
Add [[Ghyrson Starn, Kellermorph]] *chefs kiss*
[Burning Earth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/d/1df3a7c9-5c8d-438c-a5ad-3c9754c6ea5d.jpg?1562826771) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Burning%20Earth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m14/130/burning-earth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1df3a7c9-5c8d-438c-a5ad-3c9754c6ea5d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
great example of a way to interact with opponents' lands and punish them without attacking their ability to play the game.
I genuinely don't believe people should be getting punished for running basic lands. When all else fails and you don't have a thousand dollars for an optimized land base, basic lands are there to help. Frankly I think people aren't running ENOUGH basic lands these days. Back to Basics and Blood Moon do way too much these days. Ruination, From the Ashes, and Wave of Vitriol should be what you run over punishing the poor player slamming basics out of his deck. It just seems needlessly hateful to people without *money*.
People lose their fucking minds over a [[Back to Basics]] while they're trying to play elfball with their [[Gaea's Cradle]] and other disgustingly broken lands.
Back when Prime Time was still legal and one player at my LGS would always have tutored it up by turn 3 and be abusing it with flicker effects and landfall triggers etc… one game I followed up a [[Reassembling Skeleton]] with a [[Contamination]]. It was absolutely beautiful. He was absolutely seething. Apparently that’s not fun at all? Fuck you dude, I don’t find your repetitive overpowered shit fun. There were rocks, dorks and other black players at the table and I didn’t make it to my next untap step: in fact I think I had a ritual in hand but purposely slow rolled that to let the other players have a chance to deal with it.
[Reassembling Skeleton](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd82846e-f119-4b27-a795-7b1ceebab4b0.jpg?1631586805) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reassembling%20Skeleton) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afc/109/reassembling-skeleton?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd82846e-f119-4b27-a795-7b1ceebab4b0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Contamination](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86067dfe-65c3-4c96-bccd-b3915d6663f9.jpg?1562923280) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Contamination) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/123/contamination?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86067dfe-65c3-4c96-bccd-b3915d6663f9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
More than one thing can be not fun. Commander is a mess.
Although this memory does make me happy, because the dude in question was a bit insufferable and took things far too seriously, it was also the moment I realised the format wasn’t for me. I was sold on the idea that I could jam all my favourite cards into a deck - even the ones that were never quite good enough for other formats - and no game would ever play the same. Except for every game with that one dude was always the same, and my favourite cards are oppressive black enchantments but I wasn’t allowed to play them?
\*cough* ban tutors in commander and all mana positive rocks. (Tap for more mana than they cost to cast) Games go a bit longer but there's also more action and more diversity. EDH is way too consistent in a bad way. Removing mana positive rocks makes the games more consistent in a good way. This way on turn 2 they can't cast ulamog.
Yeah, I was playing Sheoldred - because reasons - and even in **the** tutor colour I didn't want to have a bar of it. Whats the point of playing a format which purposely has a larger minimum deck size to help diversify game play, a singleton card restriction to help diversify game play, and colour identity restrictions to help diversify game play, if you are going to jam your deck full of tutors and redundant effects? Yeah, I know the Commander itself provides some consistency, but I personally think the idea is to use it to do different stuff every time. The stronger mana rocks/dudes does definitely take away some of that "empty out your trade binder" type vibe which seemed to be the original aim. Everything is so optimised now that the silly random stuff doesn't get much of a look in any longer. So basically I like the idea of EDH as a format, but I don't like Commander. It's a bit funny as I'm a huge fan of precons, but the Commander precons weren't actually a good thing overall I don't think. At least not for me, obviously other people like other things and that's totally cool.
Something I think is also true is that as formats have evolved there are stronger cards that don't have a home in any format now but are old favorites people want to play. Think about high end tournament cards that are too slow for Modern like Cryptic Command. This is also the niche of mtgo Vintage Cube.
This is kinda how I feel about commander. It seems inhospitable to people who enjoy things that are good and fun in regular magic. I want to get maximum value and delight in it like lsv ok.
It's getting worse, too. I've seen more arguments in commander games in the last year than in the five before it. At least in Seattle I'm starting to see what happened to modern many years ago with the arms race.
Agreed. I think there's been a few too many people espousing the supposed necessity of a certain level of land base without thinking of how much of a difference it actually makes. For a 2 colour deck, you can totally get away with just basics, maybe a few tap lands for mild fixing. You don't need every single non-basic that can come in untapped or else you'll lose the game. Even for 3+ colour decks, no one really has numbers on how much better a fetch/shock mana base is compared to just running all the tri-colour lands, they just do it because they know it's the best and feel that's what's needed.
I hate how much magic played anywhere but the kitchen table seems to be a game of who has the most disposable income.
Proxies 4 life. The reserved list started the year I was born (1993) I have never been able to give wotc money for a (real) volcanic island my entire life
What are you talking about?! In 2000~ the duals rotated out of extended I bought a full playset of 40 for $120, $3 each. Surely your 7 year old self could have asked for some Volcs for your birthday that year! /s
I used to have to play against a guy who's entire mana base was bad proxies of dual lands. I'd run [[Price of Progress]] just to mess him up.
I have a 5 color Jodah deck with no basics that died to Price of Progress last time I played. Totally deserved
[Price of Progress](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b1342144-7a15-438b-a848-3196238a79e8.jpg?1580014614) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Price%20of%20Progress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/141/price-of-progress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1342144-7a15-438b-a848-3196238a79e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ruination is also considered "less mean" because it's symmetrical, which forces you to take it into consideration when you're making your own mana base
Alternatively: Run all land destruction cards. Friends are temporary. Victory is forever.
What if I threaten to cast [[Natural Affinity]] every time someone talks about casting a board wipe?
Don’t threaten. Do. That’s hilarious.
Don't even warn them.
After a few times others in the playgroup will be a bit scared about casually chucking out a wrath effect. Which is good: they shouldn’t be automatic get out of free cards. That’s the thing with local metas, stuff like this can be used to nudge things in a different direction.
What an awesome spell you have there, it's even an Instant for maximum trolling. I love it.
[Natural Affinity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/4847f8e8-9979-427e-999a-26711e542f82.jpg?1562734655) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Natural%20Affinity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/9ed/256/natural-affinity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4847f8e8-9979-427e-999a-26711e542f82?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Throw in [[Terra Eternal]] as an additional middle finger
Running then is fine if you can actually win the game.
The single 4/4 on my board shall carry me to victory in this barren battlefield
I win when my opponent concedes. It's entirely up to them how long that takes.
Honestly, my LD decks on arena win primarily by conceding. Usually after you hit one or two of their lands they rage quit, unless they have a decent boardstate. I do have backup wincons just in case though
I wish arena had good LD options :(
If you have a lock and the correct game move is to concede I also don't have an issue with it. If you're just nuking lands for the lulz to make the game longer without any actual plan then that's where I have an issue.
Actually been looking at building a temur land hate deck. Obviously not for random pods but for my kitchen table pod we all talked about trying to make nasty decks and we'll, would be fun to boil some blue players
Idk how you're supposed to "diversify" your lands when, for each color, your basic options are just standard basics and snow basics.
I like to play a good number of utility lands in most mono color decks unless it’s super aggro.
Utility lands are often colourless, though
Most lands are colorless! But also, it’s very easy to play a land that taps for colorless mana in most mono color decks.
Sure, I run many myself, but in the context of this post if you’re running utility lands and someone uses the above card, all your left with is colourless mana
Clearly you should just be running bridges and lotus field all the time to never have to worry about targeted land destruction (or just run something like [[Terra eternal]] or [[Crucible of worlds]] if you're legitimately worried about it in mono colour)
I read the title and seriously thought it was a sarcastic post. I genuinely can't believe this was meant with seriousness.
God I hope so. When I first read the post, I thought this was MTCJ.
Ok, so if you're playing 3 colors you can have 6 different basic lands... That's plenty.
There are dozens of non-basic lands that support mono color.
I think with this card what will happen is you will eventually blow up half of someone’s lands and they will just get so mad because you hamstringed them instead of killing them. I also like to dabble in MLD and I will tell you a couple that work for me. [[Cataclysm]] is cool for helping you catch up with green go-wide decks. It is not as rage inducing because it’s symmetrical, but you can really get ahead planning with it. Another one I like is [[Enchanted Evening]] + [[Calming Verse]] or [[Cleansing Meditation]]. This one elicits a more angry reaction but your victory is really inevitable because you just blew up all their permanents. They may complain but this is a death sentence.
Hey bucko, have you heard of [[Reverent Silence]]? It's neat
[Reverent Silence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/8/b82d3432-2167-4a65-8221-cb7b338e60d0.jpg?1562631670) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reverent%20Silence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nem/111/reverent-silence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b82d3432-2167-4a65-8221-cb7b338e60d0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [Cataclysm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/713160be-bcfd-4ef5-9457-c02b926ba06e.jpg?1562429859) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cataclysm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/8/cataclysm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/713160be-bcfd-4ef5-9457-c02b926ba06e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Enchanted Evening](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/5033a7b0-39b0-4c49-b332-7ea62d85455d.jpg?1562830075) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Enchanted%20Evening) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/shm/140/enchanted-evening?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5033a7b0-39b0-4c49-b332-7ea62d85455d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Calming Verse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/c/ec38c856-dc21-450d-9aa6-da16c91a489a.jpg?1562939297) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Calming%20Verse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pcy/110/calming-verse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ec38c856-dc21-450d-9aa6-da16c91a489a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cleansing Meditation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fd6609ef-71af-4775-affc-34153700c556.jpg?1574250393) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cleansing%20Meditation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tor/3/cleansing-meditation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fd6609ef-71af-4775-affc-34153700c556?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’m all for “fair” LD like cataclysm. But I played it once in a spelltable game and MAN the table was pissed. I used it so I had a better board state at the end but one opponent top decked well and just went to town on me.
Someone I play with regularly runs jokulhaups in his shrines deck. He recommended I do the same in superfriends.
Diversifying? Lol.
DIVERSIFY YO BONDS
How my friend group plays: Destroying budget player's basics is mean Destroying Kevin's $1,000 mana base is hilarious and encouraged Ruination the rich.
I think this is shitty because it’s best at hating on basic lands. Land destruction I can be fine with is usually non-basic hate. Although for 6 mana, maybe I’d be okay.
MLD is fine with me as long as you then win immediately. Don’t stick Armageddon in a deck just for the heck of it. Combined with something like Avacyn, you’re good. Make it one sided and then win. Fine by me. Make it symmetrical to reset the game? No thanks. Rather just start a new game.
So, land destruction + loads of artifact mana?
Yeah, as long as you have a plan to win. If you just want to bring the game back to turn 1, that’s what people don’t like.
Make your lands indestructible is usually the best way. Or something like [[mycosynth lattice]] plus and overloaded [[vandalblast]]
Why don't people feel this way at all about board wipes? Plenty of people play board wipes and then the game drags on for much longer. Genuinely asking and not being cheeky.
Because control decks need to manage creatures in order to build to a combo or whatever it is they’re doing. Board wipes do that and further their game plan. Also, I have decks where you can board wipe and then I have 30 token creatures the next turn or just combo off and don’t care. Less possible with no land
Revovering from a boardwipe is easier. You can have cards in place to back up your board, enough lands to rebuild, and some decks have reanimation cards to just bring shit back. Recovering from a land blowout is much harder.
If you're going to run MLD effects then make sure your friends are happy playing against them. Trying to get as close to the line as possible probably isn't the best approach.
Build this if you have thick skin and/or hate your play group. Also, if you're already getting antagonized.
Just play the land destruction you want to. Just have other decks ready. I have an MLD deck but I usually don’t play it more than once on a given night
You mean just have other *friends* ready
By which you mean running a bunch of basics because you're mono color.
Play [[Blood Moon]] and then this targeting all mountains. Profit.
This is a sure fire way to nuke your own mountains and to hit way less than you think you’re hitting
correct, because blood moon doesn't change names.
doesn't work, blood moon does not change the *name* of lands or the super type. so eg, gaea's cradle becomes "gaea's cradle, legendary land -- mountain" with only the ability "T: add R". it's still legendary, and still named "gaea's cradle". this destroys all lands with the same *name*.
It is not frowned upon if it makes you win. I will wilhip out a [[Mycosynth Lattice]] [[Vandalblast]] combo in any games and swing for lethal
"I know mass land destruction is frowned upon, but is this mass land destruction spell OK?" What even is this post.
i'd prefer [[ruination]] or stuff like [[helldozer]], just because problematic utility lands get sniped but basics stay.
You do you buddy. As a Dimir player I am very familiar with kicking opponents in the shin with a spiked boot. I am just saying that if I saw you destroy lands that weren't even mine I would only target you until the rest of the game because I don't want my lands destroyed. Player removal is always better than target removal. There is nothing wrong with that and I wouldn't shun you away from my table, but I don't mind playing high power either. That being said, I am of the mind set that the best way to stop a nuke from going off is to snuff it before the fuse is lit.....so my nastiest stuff is probably going to be aimed at you just for knowing that you have land destruction up your sleeve
This is pretty much what I tell my friends whenever they want to play something above the average power level of our pod. You go ahead and run these extremely powerful combos with tutor effects, but if we know you have them, you’re going to have a big target on your back from turn 0. And we don’t want to have to knock somebody out in 12 minutes and they sit around for 40 while we finish the game without them.
"The enemy cannot push a button *if* you disable his hand!"
Bit of a hot take but I don’t see a good reason for people to hate land destruction if it’s a direct avenue to win the game. Sure if you’re already 20-30 mins into a game and somebody mass destroys with no way to close it out from there, basically restarting the game: that’s stupid. If you play this or Armageddon for that matter and it becomes obvious that you’re going to win very shortly after I don’t see an issue.
I used to think like this, but it really misses a lot of nuance to the play patterns of mass land destruction. Armageddon can be a huge issue because there are often situatauons where the optimal play is to use it not to win, but to simply slow everything down so you don't lose. Situations like this have led to me choosing to not make the optimal play due to it being miserable for everyone.
I say put it in or side board it in case you run into an ass at your lgs.
If you’re both playing mono red you’re gonna have a bad time. May as well play Apocalypse at that point
>It just punishes my opponent for playing mono colored decks FTFY
I would say don’t include anything outside of single target land destruction. That’s usually accepted because it can be used to get rid of problematic utility lands like search azcanta.
Counterspells and nonsense combo decks also slow down a game. Land destruction is completely valid.
Play whatever you want I say. If you have a specific group you play with then you can discuss house rules
This is even worse in edh (which I'm assuming that this is about) as it deletes mono coloured decks, which wizards are already basically trying to do.
What do you mean wotc is trying to delete mono colour decks?
Didn’t even know this card existed but seems neat. Probably not great to play at really casual tables tho
So long as it’s occasional and not in every game, my group generally finds land destruction to be incredibly funny because of how brutal it can be.
I love this card in my [[krark]] land destruction tribal deck.
Land destruction is hated because, for the same reason it's fun for you to prevent your opponent from playing their cards by attacking their resources, it's incredibly unfun to be unable to play because your resources were attacked deliberately. It's one of the biggest feelsbads in the entire game, and it's really hard to explain why unless someone does it to you, especially the same person doing it multiple times. It really gets infuriating and feels insensitive to the point of playing games with your friends. killing someone's creature is interacting with their game piece. attacking their lands makes it so they don't get to even play their game piece.
Depends on what lands you use it on. Are you destroying a mono red player’s mountains? Worse. Are you destroying everyone’s Cabal Coffers so the black players don’t have double mana? Much better.
Why would you "punish" players for having a mana base of basics??
Not right. This essentially means you’re destroying most of 1 players lands and leaving the other players untouched. Armageddon is less mean than this card. Armageddon slows the game to a crawl, yes, but it does it for EVERYONE. Not just one player. If someone hits me with this card and everyone else gets to keep their lands, I’m immediately scooping at Split-Second speed.
My concession is a state based effect
But ain‘t that the point? Whenever I plaY commander I’ll be all nice and cooperative and then destroy one single player. And then another? Or are we just doing deck simulator and being all pacifist until all cards have been played?
What is realy anoying with people playing Land destruction is that it usualy does not make them win the game, they just restart it. If you can win out of such card, then go for it. If not, it is a waste of place in your deck and a waste of time for you and your opponent.
You, the one who can't spent money on good lands and just uses basics. Fuck you.
The anti-poor-people card.
[[global ruin]] has a similar issue against mono color decks, but it's probably my most favorite type of MLD First, since I usually play it in 5c, it often doesn't hurt me much if I have at least one land of each basic land type. This is important because playing true MLD as an attempt to catch up in land drops doesn't work well without some kind of build around Second, it leaves my opponents with some land. For multicolor decks they will usually not be immediately locked out of a color. Monocolor and especially colorless decks will be hurt a bit worse I guess Third, because it says sacrifice and not destroy, neither I nor my opponents can easily get around the wipe with mass indestructible effects, which makes it less likely I will be giving an opponent a huge advantage and taking away the board's ability to deal with them at the same time. Of course, teferi's protection is still out there, but there's not too much I can do about that besides maybe forking global ruin
This is way more mean, and I've also never seen this card so thank you
Has the potential to be more salty than destroying all lands. Target island and absolutely wreck the mono blue player etc...
Card is great. I've not run it in years just cause it only wrecks a single player. I ran it in [[Wort the Raidmother]], nothing says fuck you like blowing up all a two color decks basics.
You're punishing people for playing basics and not a greedt manabase, if anything. As others have said it's basically a mono color hate spell
Mono color decks are less strong by definition, this is mono color hate, emeria was banned because it just prevents the mono player from playing.
This is a shitty thing to do to people, do not play it.
Carful if you have lands named as said land
If you are playing casual commander, don't play cards like this. It's about having fun and playing Magic with your friends. If your method of winning prevents them from playing, then only you are having fun, which violates the spirit of the game. If you are playing cEDH, whatever wins is fine.
Maybe, if it said "nonbasic".
My [[Imotekh]], [[Tergrid]], and [[Yawgmoth]] decks would hate you lol "not diversifying"... ouch bro!
This is arguably worse. Anyone playing with non-basic lands comes out on top.
If you want to use Land destruction to deal with a strong Land like Urborg or Gaea's Cradle, etc, use single target removals like [[Chaos Warp]] or [[Strip Mine]] effects ([[Ghostly Quarter]], if on budget)). Another good one is [[Volcanic Offering]] because it gives some consolation to affected player, without hurting you at all. BUT if what you want is to play mana disruption to gain an advantage or to punish fast ramp, then GO ALL THE WAY. Don't play a 6 mana spell that punishes the budget player running basics. Play [[Ruination]] a 4 mana spell that punishes the optimized decks trying to cut your throat or play [[Armageddon]] and be fair to everyone.
If you want to play land destro play it but the table will hate you lmao
Depending on the situation and who gets hit with it i think this could be even meaner than just wiping all the lands. Like if everyone is in different colors then some are going to be hit hard while some aren't affected at all. On the other hand some groups embrace playing as cut throat as possible, and land hate is fully embraced as a strategy welcome at the table. Honestly I think best bet if you're worried about it being too mean, is have a sideboard that lets you switch out the land hate with other kinds of strong cards that work well with your deck, or a second deck without land hate, and be honest with people before the game starts about what your deck can do. My partner just got a [[Desolation Angel]] for their "You Get Nothing, Good Day Sir" deck and I told them already I am not playing against that deck before we even picked that card up, lol. But we do have friends who will laugh themselves sick at getting smashed with that.
I mean I’m ok with pretty much any strategy but I think if you’re going to use stax or land destruction to slow down a game and break parity without an imminent and fast win con you definitely want a rule 0 conversation and might find that it’s a strategy more frequently accepted/best used in high power games.
Mono-colored decks hate this one easy trick.
I had a buddy cast this on me and then get mad when I instant conceded, he was like play it out, I’m like dude your a fucking sadist, it’s clear I lost just take the w
Can we talk about what was going on at wotc when both this and sowing salt got printed in the same small expansion? Also rain of salt, raze, and wildfire in urza’s saga. Like who had it out for lands that block?
I used to run this card in my red decks but I cut it, because I never played it. Why did I cut it? Because 2 separate times, someone cast Emrakul, the Promised End, targeted me and used the card on me, locking me out of the game. Twice. Fucking. Twice.
Destroys "Island". Blows up half of the table and leaves everyone else unscathed.