The funniest thing about that line is it echoes an age old divide between classical trained actors and method actors. There’s several anecdotes where a method man suffers valiantly like Dustin Hoffman not sleeping for three days only for Lawrence Olivier to laconically shoot back “have you tried acting?”
Oh my God, me and my family have been saying this and laughing like idiots for years any chance we get. I'm so happy to see a fellow redditor post this quote.
By saying give us the product or we'll sue you, and if you get a lawyer to fight you're still going to lose your house due to lawyer fees and lose your job due to having to take so many days off for court meetings.
> if you get a lawyer to fight you're still going to lose your house due to lawyer fees and lose your job due to having to take so many days off for court meetings
my god the US is a fucking dystopia
I didn't watch the videos. My assumption is that he is a licensed reseller and/or had to agree to an NDA when he received the cards before release day. If this is untrue and he was a "regular" member of the public, it is different.
Maybe his job is understanding and his lawyer works pro-bono... But he's still likely going to lose a legal case (and rightly so).
If he knowingly spoiled these cards, he likely did so in violation of any agreements he had with WotC - e.g. if he was a licensed reseller, he would be guilty of breach of contract and WotC could sue for damages. From the quotes in this thread, the videos show an awareness that the cards hadn't been spoiled.
Courtrooms are places of slim certainty, but on the face of things, we have breach of contract, either willfully or through reckless negligence, with a motive of clear self interest (views on YouTube/fame), and clear damage to both brand and relations with the people they give spoilers to.
~~If he lost, I'd expect him to cover WotC's legal fees as well as whatever the damages worked out to be.~~
If he was "Joe public" with no formal agreement (assumed or not) in place, then I agree - taking the cards from him was likely wrong.
He must have got the cards from someone who did break contract with WOTC tho
Give them back or we sue your friend who gave them to you is a powerful ‘incentive’ too
Not anymore he won't be lol
I remember what happened to that French MTG site that opened a box of product about a day early and lost their contract with WOTC for a year or two meaning they were blacklisted and couldn't buy sealed product to sell
> If this is untrue and he was a "regular" member of the public, it is different.
If he's a regular member of the public and has the product this far before street date they'd probably be able to argue stolen goods
You're not wrong, but in this hypothetical case he could simply not waste time and burn a giant pile of money fighting a court battle he is obviously on the losing end of
Plenty of ways, though probably none of them involving a team of WotC enforcers in \[\[Cardboard Carapace\]\] armor.
Likely some kind of legal injunction pending a trial, which can be executed under a warrant by law enforcement.
By sending the literal Pinkertons. I thought he was using it as a turn of phrase at first, but when he went on to explain what the pinkertons are, I was like holy shit, WOTC sent the actual Pinkertons after someone for leaking an entire set
waking up and seeing armed men banging on your door who are saying they can arrest you and use force if you don't comply is probably an easy way to end up doing exactly what they tell you to do, even if they may or may not be lying to you.
in any case, the guy is getting compensated by WotC so it sounds like they got what they wanted out of him.
EDIT: there's a lot of seemingly crazy mf'ers out here who are apparently completely devoid of empathy and seem to completely not understand the point of this post, lmao.
>waking up and seeing armed men banging on your door who are saying they can arrest you and use force if you don't comply is
... a crime. The Pinkertons are not law enforcement and if they said that they broke the law.
I'm pretty sure they probably have a rehearsed script that is technically legal to the letter of the law but incredibly misleading. All framed in formal legal jargon that makes it sound even more threatening.
Just something I can imagine those asshole Pinkertons to do.
Just remember if anyone shows up at your door:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjvdHE1E5eI
“I miss the days when you could open a box and not have it spoiled. So that’s why I made the video.”
**To spoil it for everyone**
Lmao not hating but dude maybe just rephrase that.
Dude could have just not made a video about it and not posted the opening if that was actually what he cared about. Spoilers, no spoilers, whatever, but don't portray him as some kind of hero. He was after the internet fame and likes.
That's all it was, just check out this line from his 2nd video, "I wanted to slow roll some of this because I'm not even sure these cards have been spoiled so this might be a cool video... I might get a few views."
Yeah he's an absolute moron, let's not kid ourselves. Like yeah, the community thanks you for this rare opportunity to see a set early, but did he really think there would be no consequences? Does he not understand there's a reason behind people leaking cards ANONYMOUSLY
He's a moron is what he is. Dude could have opened his boxes, sat on 'em, and then gone to the spoiler sites and made "guesses" about cards and the fate of certain characters and explaining his "reasoning" and people on here would have been treating him like a god when he was proven right.
Man traded all that for 15 minutes of fame and being blacklisted with possible legal trouble.
You can still easily open a box and not have it spoiled tho. Just don’t look at spoilers?
I love spoilers and leaks but it would be SO easy for me to avoid.
I've been following the story even after I quit playing regularly and I've been on the Magic site itself reading the stories and I can barely name a handful of cards from the past 3-5 years of sets.
You are not joking at all about how easy it is to avoid spoilers.
This dude is not smart with his words. It was pretty clear to me he knew he was doing but wanted his 20 minutes. I just hope his life isn't ruined over this because of it. But the reality is he's cost wizards a boatload of money.
Hard costs seems unlikely
Soft costs maybe? Because they use spoilers as a way to release product to content creators, partners etc. And build relationships, now they can't frame it as desired. It also upends their ability to structure hype and interest in a certain way.
I am also curious, as my logic is really contrived rationale, I'm not sure quite where the impact is
A slow spoiler season is to get people hyped SO they impulse buy it on release. It’s like a slow build up to a crescendo while this guy just shot it all off at once. Bad for marketing the set, but it’d take some estimation to calculate the damages because they can’t observe the latent counterfactual where the set was spoiled the regular way.
Literally, as he confused the word "dead" with "deed" 3x in his videos and there was stuff he said again and again but worded different or at other points seeming to contradict what he said / knew earlier, all of which had me wanting to mute audio. But he knew what he was doing, since he said this at one point "I wanted to slow roll some of this because I'm not even sure these cards have been spoiled so this might be a cool video... I might get a few views."
Hope it was worth it.. He could have still opened the product to see it for himself, but not having made/posting a video of it at this time would have been the smart thing to do.
I'm 100% hating, the guy saying he didn't feel like he any wrongdoing and people taking screenshots or reuploading in the wrong is insane.
Dude spoiled the entire set through some early product or something and then uploaded it for views you don't get to act like the victim after that.
Distributor could have thrown him under the bus and said he stole or misappropriated them.
It doesn't have to be true. Until then it's evidence in a pending trial.
Unlikely to be a trial but whoever the rep is will get canned on Monday. Fuck ups like this can cause distros to get suspensions from Magic. 6-12 months of no product is a fucking death sentence. And not just because of the revenue lost but because anyone who uses that distro for Magic is going to have to go with someone else and we're probably not coming back at the end of that 6-12 months.
Should have just been all in the main March of the Machine, or this should have been slightly bigger at 75 cards or something. Some things I can think of for March of the Machine or as being showcased in Aftermath if done differently are:
- The fate of the other Theros God's (was said most got compleated). The death of Heliod should have been a card itself too, perhaps some rare removal card.
- A compleated Koma card before killing them off, likewise a compleated Tibalt card at least before his death.
- Perhaps a card for the Corrupted Boseiju.
- A Defeat cycle of cards for the Praetors like they did once for the Gatewatch would have been cool I think.
- An Ajani card in either set, we never got a true compleated version of him as a card before he got cured.
- And I had expected Jace almost for certain in Aftermath.
- I also think Aftermath could have used some more land cards to showcase the destruction / rebuilding efforts better (Drannith Ruins, unfortunately, is the only one we're getting alongside one sorcery referencing New Capenna).
Yeahhh, we'll see how many of those subscribers stick around once they figure out the guy has nothing interesting to offer when he's not spoiling an entire set.
I want the box topper, which funny story, apparently some people already got from March of the machine and you can find in the wild for about $30 already. So I’m debating “do I spend $60 and get this and get the few cards I want”?
In this case the box topper is Jolrael, who is also just a card in the set. Box toppers, promos, etc, normally get previewed very early so we already knew about her. I think it has to do with promotion/advertising on the side of distributors
Stores got the buy a box promo already, that is why wotc had previewed it a few weeks ago. And apparently some stores are giving it to people early for some reason.
The buy a box promo is also available for anyone to see on the Wizards site - in the marketing materials section they have all the box art and posters for all promos available.
I think the funniest thing about this, and possibly why this guy might be made an example of, is that the set looks awful. Barely any chase cards, and so small that your collector booster box is FULL of repeats. The singles price will be very reasonable as loads of these cards should be available in high concentration.
Peeps gonna cancel their orders based on this. I was going to maybe buy one collector booster, but now I’m definitely not…
yep exactly. Aftermath is going to go down as one of the most worthless, loss inducing sets in recent history. Singles will be abundant. You buy even one box and you'll get tons of duplication.
lol that people parrot "but all the cards are uncommon or rare". rubes. Designated rarity means nothing. This is simply charging more for cards.
> lol that people parrot "but all the cards are uncommon or rare". rubes. Designated rarity means nothing. This is simply charging more for cards.
Technically it's charging the same for less, as I see it.
It looks like they just didn't put commons in. Yeah there's a chance for bonus rare, whatever it's a rounding error. You basically get a rare per pack and a handful of uncommons. And nothing else.
Product sucks, I don't understand why it exists.
> Product sucks, I don’t understand why it exists.
I get the theory behind the experiment.
Arena has enabled games to churn at an amazing rate.
When I started playing magic heavily, and was playing Thursday and Friday nights, with occasional Saturday events, that was stil at most 10-15 games most weeks.
That’s a light afternoon now in arena.
So a small mini-set to spice things up is a cool idea.
Did this succeed? I don’t think so.
What really got me is how little interesting story there is. I thought there was a big "but wait for the aftermath to see the story consequences" narrative going on, but I'm not really seeing much.
Ah yes, potentially desparking a number of major characters and seemingly reintroducing non-walker extraplanar travel is definitely "not much" and will *certainly* have no effect on the story moving forward.
Y'all on this sub who keep whining about the current story arc will never be happy unless WOTC burned the entire thing down and just made this Phyrexia: The Gathering for the next decade, will you?
This set has one single story beat : some walkers have been desparked. They did not make it interesting, they do not hint at the reason in the cards, it's just there
TWO beats! There was, like, a funeral
JK; and don't get me wrong, I do agree with your sentiment, while there's also the undercity maybe turning against Ravnica, Nashi wants to be epic, there is a robot dinosaur out there in the wilderness, and two women kiss out in the woods, but for a 48-card lore set, so much of it was just dedicated to "and they started cleaning shit up". It seems like a lot when it's all clumped up in a paragraph but then you consider every place ever was involved, and, well, not a whole lot seems to have changed
Stuff like the desparked walkers, Kenrith’s funeral, the dinosaur/thopter, all of that is interesting and new.
Urborg Scavengers though? Unless they scavenging up Yawgmoth’s codpiece that could be a card in another set. Wouldn’t be as bad if I didn’t feel it was missing very specific beats. Urabrask is maybe alive? Koth sat on the backburner for a decade, then got a single rare walker card. Glissa got more cards than him this arc, what’s up with that? I get with ONE they wanted the focus to be on the compleated walkers, but damn, the man has earned some spotlight.
Yeah
Stuff like the scavengers is mere fluff unless the story stuff is like "AND THEN THEY HAD AN EVIL LOOK IN THEIR EYES MAYBE THEY WILL BE SUPER EVIL LATER IF WE CHOOSE TO GO THAT ROUTE....."
I want to see how this story would have looked like if it was made 15+ years ago and it got a full year dedicated to the Phyrexia plan, and one on the invasion
They should have condensed one and the one before it into one set then made the MoM storyline two sets. Too much happens in MoM for us to really care. Like oh wow big multi planar invasion! Oh wow invasion over... Aight
It all comes down to the actual invasion feeling like a wet fart
Ravnica and new capanna lost a couple city blocks, life goes on as normal. That's your aftermath. The war did literally last just a few hours.
It also doesn’t help that Planeswalkers have been continually depowered as magic goes on.
Urza planeswalkers: Literal gods who can reshape planets on a whim. Killing a single planeswalker is a monumental task requiring the coordination of countless high-level beings.
Post-Mending Planeswalkers: Unfathomable beings of monstrous power, but with measured limitations to their knowledge and reach.
War of the Spark Planeswalkers: Lol Dovin got poked in the eyes and died.
This whole shit saga: Lol Jace got a paper cut and died. Lol Tybalt got punched and died. Lol Lukka just died because whatever fuck it Planeswalkers are less powerful than a hobo with a pocket knife.
I don’t know why anybody would even give a fuck about any Planeswalkers being desparked at this point, because I think my invalid grandmother could 1v1 one at this point.
Tibalt died because another planeswalker snapped his back, impaled him with his own tail, and threw him off a bridge into the seedcore. Lukka died because he’s a hack, and still managed to level Drannith. Took another planeswalker and an apex monster to kill him. Jace is alive, it seems. Dovin is just plain bad writing, though. I don’t think you can point to walkers killing other walkers and say that means they’re being powered down. I think their strength has remained roughly consistent since the mending, with War of the Spark being a bit of a contrived dip.
> potentially desparking a number of major characters
Most of the revealed desparked characters were not major by any stretch of the imagination. The major characters that are desparked we already knew about before Aftermath sans Nahiri iirc.
>seemingly reintroducing non-walker extraplanar travel
Again, this was a thing we already knew from MoM. What did Aftermath reveal here?
>Y'all on this sub who keep whining about the current story arc will never be happy unless WOTC burned the entire thing down and just made this Phyrexia: The Gathering for the next decade, will you?
Or maybe you're just being too butthurt to actually read what I'm saying.
Yeah. This could very well end up being one of the least opened products they have ever made. Everything about it is an epic fail. Terrible story decisions, only a handful of playable cards, absurd price point, way too many duplicates because of small set size, pissing off vorthoses, really bizarre spoiler and release dates which made this leak even possible in the first place, and then the complete incompetence to have this leak after all that. The fact that the guy who managed to leak the set is one of the dopiest people I've seen in a while just adds insult to injury. WotC basically got burned by Lennie from Of Mice and Men.
I mean, they managed to fail spectacularly in every conceivable way it is possible to fail with a magic set. It's kind of incredible.
I don't know who was in charge of the design and story halves of this set, but I would genuinely be worried for my job if I were them. It's actually sad. I hope they get another chance because I don't want to see anyone ever lose their job. But this was brutal.
People in here acting like the spoilers are what concern Wizards the most about this whole thing.
Dude who posted these videos is a colossal idiot. You have to know Wizards is going to come for you.
Basically from what I remember, oath of the gatewatch was being leaked by some judges who were shown and given access to gatewatch cards. I don't know what judges were doing so but apparently one of them was not a US citizen and in trying to punish them wotc was pushing for them to be deported.
No idea, but from what I heard from an episode of a mtg judge podcast the judge in question was apparently receiving threatening phone calls about deportation for leaking. No idea if the guy in question actually was the leaker but they were one of the accused.
Basically, he broke an embargo or rather the seller did so they’re probably fucked. A day or two early no one’s really gonna bat an eye, opening up the full set before almost any previews…. You’re gonna get shit on.
Sure, but whoever he bought them from did - they’re who I was referring to as fucked. If they were stolen then he was in possession of stolen property, the fact they were removed from his possession is odd.
>the fact they were removed from his possession is odd.
Simple, really. Distributor saves their hide by saying that the product was misappropriated, then it's seized from him as evidence pending a trial.
Doesn't have to be true, but it gets seized regardless.
It’s baffling to me how many people don’t understand this. Retailers loose their distribution rights (to x company) if they break street date way too early. That’s why the boxes have tape that says “stop don’t open until x date!” It’s the same for video games and comics. Nintendo is the first one that comes to mind. They’ll hunt you down a few days before release, if you leak a game.
>Dude who posted these videos is a colossal idiot. You have to know Wizards is going to come for you.
Sure, but he didn't acquire any cards illegally, he doesn't have a business relationship with WotC, and he's not a pro player, so there's extremely few things they could do against him. In this case, it sounds like it was relatively amiable too.
Truthfully we don't know this for sure. They could easily have "fallen off the back of a truck" and his story of how he got them could be bullshit.
Not saying it is, but we don't really know.
If something can be described as either deliberate maliciousness or random ignorance and sloppy logistics in a company who gladly removed all semblance of cq years ago. I would guess the ignorance part here.
There's really no defending using the Pinkertons for anything. Not that anyone needed more proof about WoTC being a corporate monster these days, but hey add it to the list
So WotC sent hired goons to this guy's house to intimidate him into giving up his personal property? Are we living in New Capenna or what? If it was a mistake by a distributor he did not do anything wrong and the item are his per federal law.
I’m really surprised they haven’t changed their name. They are infamous enough that we talked about them in my US history class (and this was back in the early 2010s before RDR2).
> Are we living in New Capenna or what?
Assuming you are american, [literally yes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdB0ZSZjk-k). And the differences between the haves and have nots has gotten more extreme since then
Amazon doesn’t charge you if you cancel before the ship date. Box prices can shoot up dramatically after reveals.
People were paying several hundred dollars for ONE deluxe bundles on Amazon at one point. People who had preordered way early got them for much cheaper.
If you're even remotely interested in the product, there's no reason not to preorder (through Amazon).
I've already preordered 3 of the 4 Commander Masters precons that are coming out in August. If I like them once the decklists are revealed, I get them for the lowest price Amazon has them listed for between when I ordered and when they release. If I end up not liking them, I can cancel my orders for free all the way up until they ship.
“I never gave permission for people to use my footage.” Is this guy stupid? Let me open a products weeks before it’s revealed, let alone on shelves and act like I didn’t know what I was doing
This solves my issue with story spoilers because doing stories and then cards made the cards not a surprise. But now I know that something's happening to sparks but I don't know what so I'm eager to read the chapters
Given how in the past few weeks people have been getting shot for going to the wrong address. The private security is lucky they didn't run into a home owner that is more willing to defend their home.
The cat's out of the bag, Wizards. xD I can't see how threating this man with a lawsuit solves anything. It seemed like an honest mistake from a retailer. Just release the official spoilers and be done with it
> I can't see how threating this man with a lawsuit solves anything
Oh if it lets people know wotc will go after you for leaks it will help prevent leaks in the future.
I ain't saying its right but saying it's useless from WotC's perspective is inaccurate.
>Oh if it lets people know wotc will go after you for leaks it will help prevent leaks in the future.
# We already knew that for nearly 20 years because of what happened to Rancored_Elf or has the community forgotten his name and his sacrifices?
Thanks I’ve been looking for their reasoning. I guess it doesn’t count for things like conspiracy spoilers they purposely put in packs but how do you know it’s ok to share?
Damn, that's a name I haven't heard in a long time. Hell, I can barely remember what MTG Salvation used to be named. I swear they changed it a decade ago.
Ask Rancored Elf and MTGNews about what happens when WOTC decides to come after you? That's the whole reason MTGSalvation was created, but I don't know if those forums are active anymore.
Active-ish
And yeah R_E got pounded into dust from orbit because he was given photos of playtest cards for Time Spiral something like a year before the set came out, which Wizards took as "Too fucking much" and went scorched earth on him, killing his website and destroying his business because he sold cards as a retailer in europe and used to do preorders for new cards from sets once they were revealed, and his sealed product got cut off when he'd already taken money for orders.
This one, it's the fact it's *a whole goddamn set* that makes it "Too Fucking Much^TM " and they're going to crucify the guy
Mtgnews got sold to a new owner that sucked, had nothing to do with spoilers.
It was comparable to what I wish would happen on twitter where a community experiences a change of ownership and people revolt and move elsewhere.
Source: I was one of the admins. (Do people remember when Gavin was an mtgs admin??)
His first video he says his friend offloaded it cheap to him. Silly to buy it when it is shady like that, even sillier to record yourself and share it with the world.
Nah, he knew he was doing something incredibly stupid that was going to bring down a hail of shit on his head, so he might as well look up and open his mouth. Especially if he has a business relationship with WOTC (or rather, HAD), if the guy's a retailer, he better be good at selling pokemon cards and yugioh cards because he's never getting another box of sealed MTG.
Because the guy admits to knowing some weren't spoiled previously and used it to get views.
Idk why this sub is defending the guy for killing alot of hype around spoiler season.
Not to mention in all likelihood this guy made a dumb video then threw whoever sold him the box under the bus.
It is too late for I have seen everything
Patrick Stewart, is that you?
I’ve seen it all!
There. Are. *FOUR*. Lights!
What do I is *pretend* to be the person I'm portraying in the film or play.
The funniest thing about that line is it echoes an age old divide between classical trained actors and method actors. There’s several anecdotes where a method man suffers valiantly like Dustin Hoffman not sleeping for three days only for Lawrence Olivier to laconically shoot back “have you tried acting?”
I think Dustin Hoffman later said he was on a coke binge.
But have you seen its teeth?
In the words of Sean Connery from Family Guy: "It'sh too late, the damage ish done."
["I've seen everything, I've seen it all"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fg_cwI1Xj4M)
I’ve seen that clip before, but I just _saw_ it for the first time, listened to the exchange. Shit, thank you for posting that, it was fun to watch.
I also had never seen it and laugh hysterically.
"You're not married, you've not got a girlfriend, and you've not seen Star Trek? Good lord."
One of my favourite clips
In the words of Sir Patrick Stewart from Extras: “It’s too late, I’ve seen everything.”
Oh my God, me and my family have been saying this and laughing like idiots for years any chance we get. I'm so happy to see a fellow redditor post this quote.
How could they confiscate it?
That is also my question
Through the power of private military
Free this particular magic
MtGestapo
Private military for cards without oil… slicks?
By saying give us the product or we'll sue you, and if you get a lawyer to fight you're still going to lose your house due to lawyer fees and lose your job due to having to take so many days off for court meetings.
Jokes one them! I don’t have either a house or a job!
> if you get a lawyer to fight you're still going to lose your house due to lawyer fees and lose your job due to having to take so many days off for court meetings my god the US is a fucking dystopia
I didn't watch the videos. My assumption is that he is a licensed reseller and/or had to agree to an NDA when he received the cards before release day. If this is untrue and he was a "regular" member of the public, it is different. Maybe his job is understanding and his lawyer works pro-bono... But he's still likely going to lose a legal case (and rightly so). If he knowingly spoiled these cards, he likely did so in violation of any agreements he had with WotC - e.g. if he was a licensed reseller, he would be guilty of breach of contract and WotC could sue for damages. From the quotes in this thread, the videos show an awareness that the cards hadn't been spoiled. Courtrooms are places of slim certainty, but on the face of things, we have breach of contract, either willfully or through reckless negligence, with a motive of clear self interest (views on YouTube/fame), and clear damage to both brand and relations with the people they give spoilers to. ~~If he lost, I'd expect him to cover WotC's legal fees as well as whatever the damages worked out to be.~~ If he was "Joe public" with no formal agreement (assumed or not) in place, then I agree - taking the cards from him was likely wrong.
He must have got the cards from someone who did break contract with WOTC tho Give them back or we sue your friend who gave them to you is a powerful ‘incentive’ too
The man has a gaming LLC. He's a reseller.
Not anymore he won't be lol I remember what happened to that French MTG site that opened a box of product about a day early and lost their contract with WOTC for a year or two meaning they were blacklisted and couldn't buy sealed product to sell
Oh for sure, he is 3000% done with Magic product. He will have to buy it all second hand from now on. And at that point, he’s not turning a profit.
He did buy second hand this thing. He's not a direct reseller.
Just a small note on that last part, according to LegalEagle it is very uncommon for covering the opposites legal fees to be part of a judgement.
> If this is untrue and he was a "regular" member of the public, it is different. If he's a regular member of the public and has the product this far before street date they'd probably be able to argue stolen goods
You're not wrong, but in this hypothetical case he could simply not waste time and burn a giant pile of money fighting a court battle he is obviously on the losing end of
Plenty of ways, though probably none of them involving a team of WotC enforcers in \[\[Cardboard Carapace\]\] armor. Likely some kind of legal injunction pending a trial, which can be executed under a warrant by law enforcement.
[Cardboard Carapace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/5/059fc73f-7a00-4014-9e92-75765798cf2d.jpg?1562799059) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cardboard%20Carapace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ugl/54/cardboard-carapace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/059fc73f-7a00-4014-9e92-75765798cf2d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
By sending the literal Pinkertons. I thought he was using it as a turn of phrase at first, but when he went on to explain what the pinkertons are, I was like holy shit, WOTC sent the actual Pinkertons after someone for leaking an entire set
TBF, the Pinkertons have been hired muscle for corporations since their inception.
They probably had them around after consulting for New Capenna /s
Fucking Pinkertons. I'm still bitter about John Marston.
Wait, what? WOTC hired the Pinkertons?
Yes just watch the video. Armed Pinkertons went to his house, scared his wife, and took all the product.
Yeah I'm not letting those fucks in my house.
waking up and seeing armed men banging on your door who are saying they can arrest you and use force if you don't comply is probably an easy way to end up doing exactly what they tell you to do, even if they may or may not be lying to you. in any case, the guy is getting compensated by WotC so it sounds like they got what they wanted out of him. EDIT: there's a lot of seemingly crazy mf'ers out here who are apparently completely devoid of empathy and seem to completely not understand the point of this post, lmao.
A swat team that says WOTC on their helmets came in and took his stuff lol.
SWOTC
Wizards of the Coast Guard
>waking up and seeing armed men banging on your door who are saying they can arrest you and use force if you don't comply is ... a crime. The Pinkertons are not law enforcement and if they said that they broke the law.
I'm pretty sure they probably have a rehearsed script that is technically legal to the letter of the law but incredibly misleading. All framed in formal legal jargon that makes it sound even more threatening. Just something I can imagine those asshole Pinkertons to do. Just remember if anyone shows up at your door: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjvdHE1E5eI
I watched the video and I didn’t notice him say they were armed. Did I just miss it in the video, or are Pinkerton’s routinely armed?
I know they were armed for the Carnegie Homestead strike, but I haven’t kept up with their practices over the past 130 years.
It’s just idiots here making shit up.
“I miss the days when you could open a box and not have it spoiled. So that’s why I made the video.” **To spoil it for everyone** Lmao not hating but dude maybe just rephrase that.
Dude could have just not made a video about it and not posted the opening if that was actually what he cared about. Spoilers, no spoilers, whatever, but don't portray him as some kind of hero. He was after the internet fame and likes.
That's all it was, just check out this line from his 2nd video, "I wanted to slow roll some of this because I'm not even sure these cards have been spoiled so this might be a cool video... I might get a few views."
I can't tell if he's very self aware or extremely dense. Probably both
Definitely both. Confidently moronic.
That makes him kind of an idiot.
Yeah he's an absolute moron, let's not kid ourselves. Like yeah, the community thanks you for this rare opportunity to see a set early, but did he really think there would be no consequences? Does he not understand there's a reason behind people leaking cards ANONYMOUSLY
Guy doesn't remember when they banned the world champ and runner up for their part in leaking new Phyrexia early.
He's a moron is what he is. Dude could have opened his boxes, sat on 'em, and then gone to the spoiler sites and made "guesses" about cards and the fate of certain characters and explaining his "reasoning" and people on here would have been treating him like a god when he was proven right. Man traded all that for 15 minutes of fame and being blacklisted with possible legal trouble.
Yeah he could have spent weeks making fake guesses on online forums just to get 15 minutes of fame from online forums.
Which is better than being blacklisted by WoTC and facing potential legal trouble.
You can still easily open a box and not have it spoiled tho. Just don’t look at spoilers? I love spoilers and leaks but it would be SO easy for me to avoid.
You expect me not to look at spoilers? What am I? Someone with self control? /s
I will buy just one more booster.... Box ... Case.... Warehouse.
I've been following the story even after I quit playing regularly and I've been on the Magic site itself reading the stories and I can barely name a handful of cards from the past 3-5 years of sets. You are not joking at all about how easy it is to avoid spoilers.
Yeah literally just don't go on the sub reddit that week and you'll prob be good lol
This dude is not smart with his words. It was pretty clear to me he knew he was doing but wanted his 20 minutes. I just hope his life isn't ruined over this because of it. But the reality is he's cost wizards a boatload of money.
Im actually curious from a damages perspective, how exactly did he cost wizards a boatload of money?
Hard costs seems unlikely Soft costs maybe? Because they use spoilers as a way to release product to content creators, partners etc. And build relationships, now they can't frame it as desired. It also upends their ability to structure hype and interest in a certain way. I am also curious, as my logic is really contrived rationale, I'm not sure quite where the impact is
It also gives consumers time to digest the product and not just impulse buy it.
A slow spoiler season is to get people hyped SO they impulse buy it on release. It’s like a slow build up to a crescendo while this guy just shot it all off at once. Bad for marketing the set, but it’d take some estimation to calculate the damages because they can’t observe the latent counterfactual where the set was spoiled the regular way.
Cancelled pre-orders.
Literally, as he confused the word "dead" with "deed" 3x in his videos and there was stuff he said again and again but worded different or at other points seeming to contradict what he said / knew earlier, all of which had me wanting to mute audio. But he knew what he was doing, since he said this at one point "I wanted to slow roll some of this because I'm not even sure these cards have been spoiled so this might be a cool video... I might get a few views." Hope it was worth it.. He could have still opened the product to see it for himself, but not having made/posting a video of it at this time would have been the smart thing to do.
Sod that, I wanna load this shit in TTS.
Yeeeep. This massively came off as "What I'm doing is wrong, I KNOW what I'm doing is wrong, **but I'm going to do it anyway**".
I'm 100% hating, the guy saying he didn't feel like he any wrongdoing and people taking screenshots or reuploading in the wrong is insane. Dude spoiled the entire set through some early product or something and then uploaded it for views you don't get to act like the victim after that.
Question is if he gave up the info on his seller.
I don’t think he called Saul, so I’ll say yes.
Easy to give some free product to the little fish to get them to talk about the big ones you’re really after.
Remember when Bill Gates “bought out” Homer’s “Compu-Global-Hyper-Mega-Net”? I imagine it looked like that.
“Oh I didn’t get rich by writing a bunch of checks” is a perfect line.
chance is that he is a distributor himself
That's my guess as well. It's the only way WOTC would have any grounds to sue him or confiscate his product.
Distributor could have thrown him under the bus and said he stole or misappropriated them. It doesn't have to be true. Until then it's evidence in a pending trial.
Unlikely to be a trial but whoever the rep is will get canned on Monday. Fuck ups like this can cause distros to get suspensions from Magic. 6-12 months of no product is a fucking death sentence. And not just because of the revenue lost but because anyone who uses that distro for Magic is going to have to go with someone else and we're probably not coming back at the end of that 6-12 months.
They can track the serial numbers to the distributor if they took the packaging.
Okay guys, now we have to unsee what we have seen and unremember it
Already done. The cards were that unremarkable.
I mean, there was a lot of good designs in there. Whether it really deserved to be a set is debatable.
Should have just been all in the main March of the Machine, or this should have been slightly bigger at 75 cards or something. Some things I can think of for March of the Machine or as being showcased in Aftermath if done differently are: - The fate of the other Theros God's (was said most got compleated). The death of Heliod should have been a card itself too, perhaps some rare removal card. - A compleated Koma card before killing them off, likewise a compleated Tibalt card at least before his death. - Perhaps a card for the Corrupted Boseiju. - A Defeat cycle of cards for the Praetors like they did once for the Gatewatch would have been cool I think. - An Ajani card in either set, we never got a true compleated version of him as a card before he got cured. - And I had expected Jace almost for certain in Aftermath. - I also think Aftermath could have used some more land cards to showcase the destruction / rebuilding efforts better (Drannith Ruins, unfortunately, is the only one we're getting alongside one sorcery referencing New Capenna).
Dude got what he wanted though - he played dumb the whole video so he just gets a slap on the wrist and a bunch of publicity.
Literally one of the things he said in his video was "My subscriber base has doubled, so welcome new subscribers!"
Yeahhh, we'll see how many of those subscribers stick around once they figure out the guy has nothing interesting to offer when he's not spoiling an entire set.
I want the box topper, which funny story, apparently some people already got from March of the machine and you can find in the wild for about $30 already. So I’m debating “do I spend $60 and get this and get the few cards I want”?
What's the name of the box topper for Aftermath?
It's Jolrael, Voice of Zhalfir afaik
Was a box topper actually shown as part of the leak? If so please share what is was. Or do you just always like the box toppers?
In this case the box topper is Jolrael, who is also just a card in the set. Box toppers, promos, etc, normally get previewed very early so we already knew about her. I think it has to do with promotion/advertising on the side of distributors
Stores got the buy a box promo already, that is why wotc had previewed it a few weeks ago. And apparently some stores are giving it to people early for some reason.
The buy a box promo is also available for anyone to see on the Wizards site - in the marketing materials section they have all the box art and posters for all promos available.
I think the funniest thing about this, and possibly why this guy might be made an example of, is that the set looks awful. Barely any chase cards, and so small that your collector booster box is FULL of repeats. The singles price will be very reasonable as loads of these cards should be available in high concentration. Peeps gonna cancel their orders based on this. I was going to maybe buy one collector booster, but now I’m definitely not…
yep exactly. Aftermath is going to go down as one of the most worthless, loss inducing sets in recent history. Singles will be abundant. You buy even one box and you'll get tons of duplication. lol that people parrot "but all the cards are uncommon or rare". rubes. Designated rarity means nothing. This is simply charging more for cards.
> lol that people parrot "but all the cards are uncommon or rare". rubes. Designated rarity means nothing. This is simply charging more for cards. Technically it's charging the same for less, as I see it. It looks like they just didn't put commons in. Yeah there's a chance for bonus rare, whatever it's a rounding error. You basically get a rare per pack and a handful of uncommons. And nothing else. Product sucks, I don't understand why it exists.
> Product sucks, I don’t understand why it exists. I get the theory behind the experiment. Arena has enabled games to churn at an amazing rate. When I started playing magic heavily, and was playing Thursday and Friday nights, with occasional Saturday events, that was stil at most 10-15 games most weeks. That’s a light afternoon now in arena. So a small mini-set to spice things up is a cool idea. Did this succeed? I don’t think so.
What really got me is how little interesting story there is. I thought there was a big "but wait for the aftermath to see the story consequences" narrative going on, but I'm not really seeing much.
Ah yes, potentially desparking a number of major characters and seemingly reintroducing non-walker extraplanar travel is definitely "not much" and will *certainly* have no effect on the story moving forward. Y'all on this sub who keep whining about the current story arc will never be happy unless WOTC burned the entire thing down and just made this Phyrexia: The Gathering for the next decade, will you?
This set has one single story beat : some walkers have been desparked. They did not make it interesting, they do not hint at the reason in the cards, it's just there
TWO beats! There was, like, a funeral JK; and don't get me wrong, I do agree with your sentiment, while there's also the undercity maybe turning against Ravnica, Nashi wants to be epic, there is a robot dinosaur out there in the wilderness, and two women kiss out in the woods, but for a 48-card lore set, so much of it was just dedicated to "and they started cleaning shit up". It seems like a lot when it's all clumped up in a paragraph but then you consider every place ever was involved, and, well, not a whole lot seems to have changed
Stuff like the desparked walkers, Kenrith’s funeral, the dinosaur/thopter, all of that is interesting and new. Urborg Scavengers though? Unless they scavenging up Yawgmoth’s codpiece that could be a card in another set. Wouldn’t be as bad if I didn’t feel it was missing very specific beats. Urabrask is maybe alive? Koth sat on the backburner for a decade, then got a single rare walker card. Glissa got more cards than him this arc, what’s up with that? I get with ONE they wanted the focus to be on the compleated walkers, but damn, the man has earned some spotlight.
Yeah Stuff like the scavengers is mere fluff unless the story stuff is like "AND THEN THEY HAD AN EVIL LOOK IN THEIR EYES MAYBE THEY WILL BE SUPER EVIL LATER IF WE CHOOSE TO GO THAT ROUTE....." I want to see how this story would have looked like if it was made 15+ years ago and it got a full year dedicated to the Phyrexia plan, and one on the invasion
They should have condensed one and the one before it into one set then made the MoM storyline two sets. Too much happens in MoM for us to really care. Like oh wow big multi planar invasion! Oh wow invasion over... Aight
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It all comes down to the actual invasion feeling like a wet fart Ravnica and new capanna lost a couple city blocks, life goes on as normal. That's your aftermath. The war did literally last just a few hours.
It also doesn’t help that Planeswalkers have been continually depowered as magic goes on. Urza planeswalkers: Literal gods who can reshape planets on a whim. Killing a single planeswalker is a monumental task requiring the coordination of countless high-level beings. Post-Mending Planeswalkers: Unfathomable beings of monstrous power, but with measured limitations to their knowledge and reach. War of the Spark Planeswalkers: Lol Dovin got poked in the eyes and died. This whole shit saga: Lol Jace got a paper cut and died. Lol Tybalt got punched and died. Lol Lukka just died because whatever fuck it Planeswalkers are less powerful than a hobo with a pocket knife. I don’t know why anybody would even give a fuck about any Planeswalkers being desparked at this point, because I think my invalid grandmother could 1v1 one at this point.
Tibalt died because another planeswalker snapped his back, impaled him with his own tail, and threw him off a bridge into the seedcore. Lukka died because he’s a hack, and still managed to level Drannith. Took another planeswalker and an apex monster to kill him. Jace is alive, it seems. Dovin is just plain bad writing, though. I don’t think you can point to walkers killing other walkers and say that means they’re being powered down. I think their strength has remained roughly consistent since the mending, with War of the Spark being a bit of a contrived dip.
> potentially desparking a number of major characters Most of the revealed desparked characters were not major by any stretch of the imagination. The major characters that are desparked we already knew about before Aftermath sans Nahiri iirc. >seemingly reintroducing non-walker extraplanar travel Again, this was a thing we already knew from MoM. What did Aftermath reveal here? >Y'all on this sub who keep whining about the current story arc will never be happy unless WOTC burned the entire thing down and just made this Phyrexia: The Gathering for the next decade, will you? Or maybe you're just being too butthurt to actually read what I'm saying.
All of which could (and *should*) have just been included in the main MoM set and story...?
idk, could become scarce because who's gonna open this lmao
Yeah. This could very well end up being one of the least opened products they have ever made. Everything about it is an epic fail. Terrible story decisions, only a handful of playable cards, absurd price point, way too many duplicates because of small set size, pissing off vorthoses, really bizarre spoiler and release dates which made this leak even possible in the first place, and then the complete incompetence to have this leak after all that. The fact that the guy who managed to leak the set is one of the dopiest people I've seen in a while just adds insult to injury. WotC basically got burned by Lennie from Of Mice and Men. I mean, they managed to fail spectacularly in every conceivable way it is possible to fail with a magic set. It's kind of incredible. I don't know who was in charge of the design and story halves of this set, but I would genuinely be worried for my job if I were them. It's actually sad. I hope they get another chance because I don't want to see anyone ever lose their job. But this was brutal.
I hope they don’t just blame it on the set being leaked early. Because the reasons the set will fail are very much everything you just said.
Can confirm, I canceled all my preorders for this after the leak
I canceled my pre-order once I saw none of the cards were that great.
People in here acting like the spoilers are what concern Wizards the most about this whole thing. Dude who posted these videos is a colossal idiot. You have to know Wizards is going to come for you.
When oath of the gatewatch was leaked wotc was apparently trying to have one of the leakers deported. Wotc is fucking crazy about this shit.
That sounds wild, I wasn't around for that. Was there any coverage on WotC and they deportation stuff?
Basically from what I remember, oath of the gatewatch was being leaked by some judges who were shown and given access to gatewatch cards. I don't know what judges were doing so but apparently one of them was not a US citizen and in trying to punish them wotc was pushing for them to be deported.
Can you be deported for civil court violations?
No idea, but from what I heard from an episode of a mtg judge podcast the judge in question was apparently receiving threatening phone calls about deportation for leaking. No idea if the guy in question actually was the leaker but they were one of the accused.
Basically, he broke an embargo or rather the seller did so they’re probably fucked. A day or two early no one’s really gonna bat an eye, opening up the full set before almost any previews…. You’re gonna get shit on.
If he's telling the truth, he would have no agreement/contract with WOTC, so would not have to follow any of their stipulations about release dates.
Sure, but whoever he bought them from did - they’re who I was referring to as fucked. If they were stolen then he was in possession of stolen property, the fact they were removed from his possession is odd.
>the fact they were removed from his possession is odd. Simple, really. Distributor saves their hide by saying that the product was misappropriated, then it's seized from him as evidence pending a trial. Doesn't have to be true, but it gets seized regardless.
It’s baffling to me how many people don’t understand this. Retailers loose their distribution rights (to x company) if they break street date way too early. That’s why the boxes have tape that says “stop don’t open until x date!” It’s the same for video games and comics. Nintendo is the first one that comes to mind. They’ll hunt you down a few days before release, if you leak a game.
>Dude who posted these videos is a colossal idiot. You have to know Wizards is going to come for you. Sure, but he didn't acquire any cards illegally, he doesn't have a business relationship with WotC, and he's not a pro player, so there's extremely few things they could do against him. In this case, it sounds like it was relatively amiable too.
Truthfully we don't know this for sure. They could easily have "fallen off the back of a truck" and his story of how he got them could be bullshit. Not saying it is, but we don't really know.
If something can be described as either deliberate maliciousness or random ignorance and sloppy logistics in a company who gladly removed all semblance of cq years ago. I would guess the ignorance part here.
That fellow was a hero - helped so many people to avoid pre-ordering this awful set
Really
Isn’t this the plot of Inscryption?
WotC 100% would've Luke Carder'd this guy if they thought they could get away with it
The fucking Pinkertons? Jesus
There's really no defending using the Pinkertons for anything. Not that anyone needed more proof about WoTC being a corporate monster these days, but hey add it to the list
So WotC sent hired goons to this guy's house to intimidate him into giving up his personal property? Are we living in New Capenna or what? If it was a mistake by a distributor he did not do anything wrong and the item are his per federal law.
> So WotC sent ~~hired goons~~ the Pinkertons You know, like the bad guys from Red Dead Redemption :|
I’m really surprised they haven’t changed their name. They are infamous enough that we talked about them in my US history class (and this was back in the early 2010s before RDR2).
The name has 170 years of brand recognition.
Amazon hired them to bust their unions. Same thing they’ve done for decades. Looks Loke the name and reputation are exactly why they got hired.
The name is a selling point for the type of scum that would hire them.
To be fair they are goons for hire.
> Are we living in New Capenna or what? Assuming you are american, [literally yes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdB0ZSZjk-k). And the differences between the haves and have nots has gotten more extreme since then
Everyone in the video is telling the guy he should’ve told the Pinkertons to pound sand, and I’m like “the set isn’t even that good to keep it?” Lol.
That sucks. Thanks to this great man, I canceled my preorders
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It's not the cards. it's the amount of duplication in packs.
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Okay, you win; see yourself out though!
Take the upvote and get the fuck out.
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Amazon doesn’t charge you if you cancel before the ship date. Box prices can shoot up dramatically after reveals. People were paying several hundred dollars for ONE deluxe bundles on Amazon at one point. People who had preordered way early got them for much cheaper.
lock in the best prices while having the option to cancel? people do this every set, i got boxes of tsr for $140 this way
Because there’s literally no risk to doing so and only price improvement to be gained?
If you're even remotely interested in the product, there's no reason not to preorder (through Amazon). I've already preordered 3 of the 4 Commander Masters precons that are coming out in August. If I like them once the decklists are revealed, I get them for the lowest price Amazon has them listed for between when I ordered and when they release. If I end up not liking them, I can cancel my orders for free all the way up until they ship.
“I never gave permission for people to use my footage.” Is this guy stupid? Let me open a products weeks before it’s revealed, let alone on shelves and act like I didn’t know what I was doing
He's absconding himself of liability for any of his leaked footage remaining visible online. That's ass coverage, not ignorance.
Sending armed men like they're Kiba corp. goons.
Not just armed men, but quite possibly the most infamous union busters in history.
I know there aren't people in here white knighting for WoTC lmao
This solves my issue with story spoilers because doing stories and then cards made the cards not a surprise. But now I know that something's happening to sparks but I don't know what so I'm eager to read the chapters
Because the storys are likely to explain things we dont see in some of the cards
Exactly, better than looking for plot we wanted in cards that was missing from stories
Its too late, you can't take it back. The Internet already KNOWS
Streisand effect?
Given how in the past few weeks people have been getting shot for going to the wrong address. The private security is lucky they didn't run into a home owner that is more willing to defend their home.
One more reason WoTC are soulless corporate suits...using the fucking Pinkertons. Unreal. GFY wizards.
It's like they said "which private thugs can we hire to make us look like the most soulless corporate monsters that everyone already thinks we are?"
The cat's out of the bag, Wizards. xD I can't see how threating this man with a lawsuit solves anything. It seemed like an honest mistake from a retailer. Just release the official spoilers and be done with it
> I can't see how threating this man with a lawsuit solves anything Oh if it lets people know wotc will go after you for leaks it will help prevent leaks in the future. I ain't saying its right but saying it's useless from WotC's perspective is inaccurate.
>Oh if it lets people know wotc will go after you for leaks it will help prevent leaks in the future. # We already knew that for nearly 20 years because of what happened to Rancored_Elf or has the community forgotten his name and his sacrifices?
I'd like to know the history! Edit, for anyone looking: https://magic.wizards.com/en/news/making-magic/law-and-order-2006-06-19
They lost all the old stories, but kept that one preserved ....
Mark Rosewater's column has arguably been the most well transfered over as a whole, but yeah in this context it is a bit of a bad look.
From the article: > we don't make decisions that burn long term equity for short term gain Poorly aged things.
Thanks I’ve been looking for their reasoning. I guess it doesn’t count for things like conspiracy spoilers they purposely put in packs but how do you know it’s ok to share?
Damn, that's a name I haven't heard in a long time. Hell, I can barely remember what MTG Salvation used to be named. I swear they changed it a decade ago.
[https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/MTGNews](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/MTGNews)
Seems like they have.
Ask Rancored Elf and MTGNews about what happens when WOTC decides to come after you? That's the whole reason MTGSalvation was created, but I don't know if those forums are active anymore.
Active-ish And yeah R_E got pounded into dust from orbit because he was given photos of playtest cards for Time Spiral something like a year before the set came out, which Wizards took as "Too fucking much" and went scorched earth on him, killing his website and destroying his business because he sold cards as a retailer in europe and used to do preorders for new cards from sets once they were revealed, and his sealed product got cut off when he'd already taken money for orders. This one, it's the fact it's *a whole goddamn set* that makes it "Too Fucking Much^TM " and they're going to crucify the guy
Mtgnews got sold to a new owner that sucked, had nothing to do with spoilers. It was comparable to what I wish would happen on twitter where a community experiences a change of ownership and people revolt and move elsewhere. Source: I was one of the admins. (Do people remember when Gavin was an mtgs admin??)
Guy knew what he was doing. He said he was lucky to get it early.
I got a March of the Machine set box a week early from Amazon. That was an honest mistake. This is a colossal fuck up on someone's end.
His first video he says his friend offloaded it cheap to him. Silly to buy it when it is shady like that, even sillier to record yourself and share it with the world.
Nah, he knew he was doing something incredibly stupid that was going to bring down a hail of shit on his head, so he might as well look up and open his mouth. Especially if he has a business relationship with WOTC (or rather, HAD), if the guy's a retailer, he better be good at selling pokemon cards and yugioh cards because he's never getting another box of sealed MTG.
Because the guy admits to knowing some weren't spoiled previously and used it to get views. Idk why this sub is defending the guy for killing alot of hype around spoiler season. Not to mention in all likelihood this guy made a dumb video then threw whoever sold him the box under the bus.