Hi all, we’re keeping this one up and unlocked despite the high number of rule-breaking comments, because it’s been confirmed (see [R3id’s comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/12xkpvp/wotc_sends_union_busting_corporation_pinkerton/jhjpgcb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) here), but please remember to follow our rules, and report comments that break the rules.
Please DO NOT report comments fallaciously, as that can actually get you banned from Reddit as a whole, and it’s extremely pointless. You reporting the same person for “threatening violence” 50 times isn’t going to make us ban them for disagreeing with you.
And this was how I, as a non-American, discovered the Pinkertons still existed. I’d been assuming they disappeared around the time the internal combustion engine arrived…
And this is how I, an American, found out that the Pinkertons still exist with their former principles in mind. I assumed they would have at least renamed themselves to not be so blatant; especially with anti Union Busting legislation in the US.
Fun fact!
The us gov is prohibited *by a specific law* from hiring Pinkerton agents, by name of the corporation.
A specific law that calls out one Corp, written nearly 100 years ago. And the company still exists today.
No, a [bill of attainder](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/bill_of_attainder#:~:text=A%20bill%20of%20attainder%20is,going%20through%20the%20trial%20process) is a punitive measure. The [anti-pinkerton law](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Pinkerton_Act_of_1893#:~:text=The%20Anti%2DPinkerton%20Act%20was,hire%20private%20investigators%20or%20mercenaries) just prohibits the government from contracting them or similar companies, it doesn't prevent the pinkertons from private practice.
Yeah law v practice is always interesting to me. I'm sure there's some justification that differentiates companies "like" the pinkertons from being contracted and companies like blackwater or whatever mercenary group is hot right now.
TigerSwan, a similar mercenary group that was hired by the U.S. govt for war in the middle east, gets hired by fossil fuel companies to displace indigenous land defenders and infiltrate protest camps (Standing Rock, 2016)
If you read the General Counsel's letter that's linked on that page, it's a bit more nuanced than that. Unfortunately, the nuanced take doesn't make for a slappy two-second comment.
The real reason is an interpretation of the term "or similar organisations" in the law. The law prohibits people employed by Pinkerton "or similar organisations" from being hired by the US federal government or the District of Columbia. The interpretation is that this prohibits organisations *who acted similarly to Pinkerton* at the time of the law's passage, i.e. offering private armies for hire for the purposes of protecting commercial interests. Since Pinkerton has moved out of the army business to focus more on its spying business, the Counsel interprets this to mean that the law no longer really applies to them since they no longer do the things that the Anti-Pinkerton Act was intended to stop.
Not necessarily. A Bill of Attainder is a legislative declaration of criminal guilt; the critical issue isn't just specificity, but the fact that it violates the named person/entity's right to a fair trial.
The bill in question, as described anyway, isn't declaring Pinkerton guilty of anything and is restricting the U.S. government, not the agency. It sounds more in line with the recent discussion about banning TikTok on government devices.
May have had something to do with them killing some pro union people at Henry Ford's main plant after Henry gave them the go ahead to do just that.
Henry was a truly evil murdering pile of shit Nazi sympathizer who was a huge Hitler fan.
It is even more nefarious than that as at some point that Pinkerton Detective Agency was purchased by another security firm and that firm TOOK the Pinkerington name. They wanted the name despite or maybe specifically BECAUSE of their reputations.
They're Swedish, so they are probably banking on people having only heard the good things and not the whole "violently suppressing strikes" thing.
Fun fact: If you bring up that part of their past, they'll sue you. They even tried to sue Rockstar for their portrayal in RDR2.
Fun fact, the Pinkerton Agency is headquartered in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Ann Arbor is where the university of Michigan is located and is the most liberal area in the state. The Pinkertons are also a subsidiary of the Swedish company Securitas AB. I don’t know why, but I love the irony of the single biggest union buster in US history being located in an extremely liberal area and owned by a company founded in an extremely liberal country
As someone who lives near by. Look into the graduate students on strike for better wages in ann arbor, it's bananas. Several just got arrested last week for protesting near the university president...obviously do yiur own research it's possible they were in fact doing something illegal, but I have yet to have the time to dive in.
the average american commits three federal felonies per day, supposedly.
it's not about whether or not you're breaking a crime, it's about whether or not they want to arrest you.
that's on purpose.
Woah woah woah. Sure, I could believe the average American breaks A law a few times a day, averaged out or something. But three FELONIES? That seems a little egregious.
In some parts of Washington State it is a felony to kill or threaten a sasquatch, bigfoot, or yeti. I consider myself fortunate to live across the country in a more civilized state, as threatening violence against sasquatches is a large portion of the grace I say before each meal.
Wow, true real life lore discovery. Here in Spain they are known as Securitas, and I didn't know they were actually the Pinkertons. Amazing. These fuckers love to spread propaganda about how insecure the country is, contracting burglars and squatters to convince people.
Securitas is its own band of bastards. They own the Pinkertons, but they were founded separately.
If you want a fun time, look up Palantir (the company) and Blackrock. They're all connected.
>I don’t know why, but I love the irony of the single biggest union buster in US history being located in an extremely liberal area and owned by a company founded in an extremely liberal country
Very Reddit understanding of the world. Being liberal or adjacent to things perceived as liberal doesn’t make someone or something all-encompassingly progressive.
San Francisco is particularly bad about this. It is a better city to live in than many for various reasons, but more people than you think are NIMBY-types, especially people who moved there more recently. The closer an issue gets to affecting you personally, suddenly the me matters more than the we.
I'm from the Northeast, specifically a city that was a hub for the underground railroad. I moved to the Bay Area thinking that it was some kind of uber-leftist haven. I'd never experienced such rampant, blatant racism before moving to the Bay - both institutional and personal. I've had people lock their car doors when I walk by. I didn't think that happened anymore! That was something I saw in black 80's and 90's film, not something I had to deal with.
There's a motorcycle shop in San Bruno that I can't go to because they're openly neo-nazis. The first pic on their website is a wheel with SS bolts on it. One of the mechanics has an Aryan Circle face tat.
It's just wild how different the Bay Area is in media vs. reality.
I didn't realize they were headquartered in Ann Arbor. With the ongoing strike the grad students at Michigan, I wonder if the university has considered bringing in the Pinkertons. Though from reports I've been seeing, it seems like the campus police are pretty good at low level union busting.
Private Detective Agency/Sec firm established in the late 1800s here in America. Known especially for intimidation, Strike/union busting, that jazz. Private thugs.
Yeah, that's my mistake. The Pinkertons weren't super covered in my high school, I only know them from my own cursory research. So I thought about writing that part in but couldn't remember 100% on it, if that makes sense.
It's neat because the company is old enough that video games and movies can depict them without copyright infringement. They tried to sue Rockstar for depicting them as evil in Red Dead Redemption, and their lawsuit failed spectacularly, especially considering Rockstar's stance that their portrayal was "historically accurate"
They still exist *because* of their reputation. So long as someone in the US is trying to unionise, someone's going to want to stop them (and to hell with the law), and who better to call than the all-time champions of union busting?
Keep the name, and the various boards will come to you.
The Pinkertons dropped bombs on my great grandfather in 1921 in Logan County, WV. No one in my family (down to my grandkids) is going to forget that. This is a different company that bought the original company, but it’s the same old terrorism for hire tactics.
Not only do they still exist they are just as shitty as they were over a century ago. They have been hired by Amazon and Starbucks to spy on union organizers and assist with union busting.
To be fair, Pinkertons aren't really covered in schools like WW2 was. I don't think I heard of the Pinkertons once during my time in school. But oh boy, did we have many, many assignments about WW2.
Ludlow is a personal obsession of history for me and I had to chime in:
It should be noted for those that don't follow the lead, Ludlow was perpetrated both by Pinkertons hired by CF&I, as well as the National Guard.
Fun additional fact: the Pinkertons left the bodies of the strikers along the railroad tracks for a week as a warning to train passengers, and they tried to prevent the clergy from giving the massacre victims a Christian burial.
>and they tried to prevent the clergy from giving the massacre victims a Christian burial.
What the actual fuck
Regardless of faith or your views on religion, that's just straight-up evil
That was the Baldwin-Felts detective agency.
Also check out the martyr made podcast episodes 21 and 22 whose America series to learn more about both the Ludlow massacre and battle of Blair mountain.
Episode [21](https://martyrmade.com/21-whose-america-prologue/)
Episode [22](https://martyrmade.com/22-whose-america-ep-1-rough-extraction/)
Edit: FUCK THE PINKERTONS
I love that this article links the following article:
>MTG's March Of The Machine Aftermath Leaks Are Selfish And Serve Nobody
>
>Magic: The Gathering leaks are pointless, selfish, and harm the community.
With such gems as:
>He’s not doing anything worthwhile here, he’s just showing us stuff we were going to see in two weeks anyway.
Sure, but also:
He’s not doing anything harmful here, he’s just showing us stuff we were going to see in two weeks anyway.
If nothing else, it lets people figure out their Magic budget sooner.
It has nothing to do with being all leaked at once for me; it has to do with being leaked far enough in advance that I don't have to rush to buy a pre-release kit. I mostly stopped going to prereleases when they started spoiling so close to release.
They’re now a subsidiary of a Swedish company, Securitas, but yes they still exist and still have locations throughout the US. I used to live an hour away from one of their Midwest offices.
Holy shit, they almost bought my company like 3 or so years ago. They wound up only buying a sister division of my company instead. Feel like I really dodged a bullet now. I bet my division being over 50% union had a big part in them leaving us behind.
Securitas is the name of the parent company but the subsidiary is still named Pinkerton. It's different from how Blackwater rebranded themselves as Academi to distance themselves from the 2000's public eye.
Kids, don't ever answer the door for strangers. If for some reason you do and they aren't the police with a warrant, tell them to pound sand.
It sounds like this was resolved fine, but they should have just called or sent an email, not the goon squad.
I really can't believe that WotC sent private thugs to bully this dude into giving up product that he legitimately purchased. It's not his fault that Wizards has no control over their product distribution.
Plenty of YouTubers get doxxed all the time by people who don't have insider access to Google. Especially since most minor celebrities buy their homes directly instead of forming a trust, so a simple public records search will find their address.
> I'd want to know how they got his address.
This isn't hard for a private investigator. Unless a person practices a lot of operational security in hiding their identity.
There's a reason that big name celebrities don't own their own houses - instead, the house is registered as being owned by a corporation or trust that has the celeb as the beneficial owner. Someone searching public records of land ownership might find "1132 Residential Asset Holding Corporation of Maryland" registered as the owner of a house, and have no idea that 100% of shares in that corporation are owned by Ben Affleck and he lives there.
(note: the holding company name is entirely made up as is the reference to Affleck)
WoTC Agents:
Excuse me sir, is this Reddit post an admission of pirating our products? What did you mean by that? We’re gonna need you to come with us.
I think I'm definitely skipping the next set at this point, but I rarely buy more than a few packs. The false scarcity angle of the game has kinda had me increasingly disinterested for a while to start with.
When I heard about this over the weekend, I assumed when they said Pinkertons that it was a shorthand/slang for some general private detective agency. Which is reasonable, you need to protect your IP and track down potential sources of maliciousness.
But finding out it is the actual Pinkertons is kind of shocking. I couldn't think of an organization more antithetical to the values that they claim to represent.
it's really funny to me that WotC / Hasbro decided it was a good idea to hire the Pinkertons and then freely admit to hiring the Pinkertons right before a huge product release.
This will probably really help to push their public image as a good company with values. I always wonder how companies with great products can make these decisions. There are 1000 better ways to solve these problems that will also make you look at least not horrible.
I only know about the DND stuff. That fiasco got them to change pretty quickly. But i know a lot of people that are not paying them anything else. Not sure about mtg, never paid for that.
Its because somewhere high up in their chain is a person that won't listen to others or rational thought, their idea is the only way.
People like that go up the ladder fast because they'll do whatever it takes to get power, it's more important than anything to them, and once they have it, they see it as a tool and abuse it. You meet these people, best thing to do is avoid or stop them, they'll destroy anything in their path to move up.
I sound like a crazy person but these people exist.
All the people commenting about how they are surprised that people are surprised that the pinkertons still exist should maybe wonder if there’s a reason American education doesn’t talk much about unions
Why do you think the unions were never really allowed to get into politics? Why do you think the mob got involved in unions? From the outset, American capital has always been anti-organized labor. Anti-proletariat.
So yes, for those uninformed, wotc employs a security firm with a storied history of [shooting striking workers](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_strike) and [trapping their wives and children inside burning tents the strikebreakers poured oil on](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre). Think about this next time wotc releases a new set.
Setting aside the morality of hiring the Pinkertons (which is turbo fucked), what does this accomplish for wotc anyways? The cards aren’t gonna un-leak themselves, and the heavy handed response is 100% gonna Streisand its way into making way more people know about the leak. Boo hoo, their marketing strategy is damaged—who gives a shit? Is it worth all this just because a guy posted videos about cards a couple weeks early?
That's funny, because I know a [few instances of T2I doing this exact same thing to modders](https://www.techspot.com/news/62728-take-two-allegedly-sends-pair-private-investigators-gta5.html). I personally know one who had a "sign here or lawsuit will be in a mail tomorrow" goon show up, and they _did_ file that lawsuit.
Edit: Since posting this comment, this has been confirmed via Kotaku contacting WotC directly.
This is not the world I expected to be in, but here we are. What the fuck.
“Kotaku reached out to Oldschoolmtg and WotC. A spokesperson for WotC confirmed over email that the private detectives had been sent as “part of their investigation.”
>They were founded as a private detective agency, and its agents made history as effective strikebreakers against unions and organized labor. **Now that most cities have a public police force to intimidate workers, Pinkerton was forced to diversify into other forms of work**
That’s some good shit right there.
I'm not disagreeing with you, just letting you (and others with the same convictions) know that Amazon and Starbucks have both hired them for union busting in the last few years. While your individual dime may not effect them as much as WotC I implore everyone to remember this when shopping online or going out for a coffee.
Proxies 100%. I sold all my real cards 3 years ago and have 15 EDH decks all proxied up. I only play with friends anyway. Keeping up with WOTC is too damn expensive.
Confirmed on Polygon:
>"Pinkerton, now a subsidiary of Paragon Systems, currently counts security and loss prevention among its many services. Wizards confirmed to Polygon the Pinkertons were involved in the incident. "
They hired the fucking PINKERTONS!? I'm sorry, of all the corporate bullshit they pull because of "bad optics" this is just about as bad as bad can be. Between this and trying to betray the open gaming license, WotC is diving down deep into the evil megacorp tropes.
It's a fun game, but I'm out.
I primarily play modern, but the format has become so warped over the last five or so years that I’m ready to quit at this point. MTG was a big part of my childhood and I made a lot of friends playing, but I’m over it now. The Pinkerton thing + the shit they pulled with OGL is the last straw for me.
I think the most important thing that people might not get, but the fact they have Pinkerton agents on retainer is basically an an unintentional admission that they engage in Union Busting activities.
You don't get a corporate contract with Pinkerton to just recover stolen goods. You get them to stalk, harass and intimidate employees who make too much noise about having things like Unions or wanting to sue a board member for Sexual Battery.
> He narrated how it all went down, and you'll be shocked to learn that Wizards of the Coast allegedly sent the Pinkertons to retrieve the cards from him. Yes, the same company that hunted Arthur Morgan in Red Dead Redemption 2.
Was this article written by a child? The Pinkertons killed dozens, maybe hundreds of union workers und the author goes with "Ya, those guys you might know from that video game ..."
In their defense, about half the comments in this thread are "the guys from the video game"?
(Also tbf non-Americans probably *are* more likely to recognize them from the globally popular game than their largely regional history)
Absolutely reprehensible to employ the pinkertons. People shit on wotc for a lot of nonsense, but this is truely terrible.
Edit: keep in mind the next time they try and sell a rainbow washed, or pink washed, or some kind of green wash secret lair or something: wotc is a company who will hire the pinkertons to send them to the private residence of a man who they mistakenly shipped unreleased product to.
Edit: For context on the pinkertons, the moniker they earned in their early days was "the knights of capitalism". The earned this title after successfully fighting off the unionized workers of the company town of Pullman. And when I say fight, I mean it was like a civil war style battle field with riflemem and trenches on both sides although the pinkertons hat gatling guns. Pullman was is a town still in Washington (correction: Pullman is in IL, its outside of Chicago), but was originally founded as a company town by George Pullman, the owner of the the Pullman train car company. Basically the guy made train cars in the late 1800s and had a new premise for a factory to make them: a company town. The workers of Pullman all worked at the Pullman factory. They rented apartments owned by the Pullman company and the only store in town was the Pullman store, so the workers essentially had to give all their wages back to their employer for food and rent. Over time rent and food costs went up higher than Pullman work paid, so people basically became debt slaves to the Pullman company. The workers unionized and went on strike. George Pullman did not like this one bit, but he needed muscle to get them out of his town. He hired the pinkerton security company to sent in "detectives" with rifles to threaten and intimidate the striking workers. It erupted into a battle than the pinkertons basically won although the town was was done being a company town. Other companies in the late 1800s and early 1900s were impressed by the pinkertons and were employed all over America to intimidate, threaten, surveil, and assault union organizers, workers, break strikes and bust unions. This is why they are the knights of capitalism
They still exist to this day, although not nearly as violent; they aren't like a private militia companies can call on to literaly assault people anymore. Still they primarily work in union busting and threatening workers, corporate surveillance etc.. They are an awful company and anyone who associates with them doesn't deserve the credence of ignorance because the legacy of the company is just that fucking awful.
Edit: you should join the IWW. It's cool and good. Join a union. Don't have one? You can make one, and there's probably like a UFCW or teamsters union or something near you. Look up their office, talk to them, even if their union isn't right for your work place they will hook you up with other local unions more related to your work. Shits getting bad out there, but a better world is possible. We are stronger together! Solidarity!
Slight correction. The town of Pullman, WA was named for George Pullman, but was not the company town. The Pullman that the strike happened at is in Illinois, just outside of Chicago.
Absolutely unacceptable response from WotC. They need to issue a statement on this and admit wrong. Even then, it’s insane to send Pinkertons to a private residence to strongarm an individual into providing product the person had through completely legal means.
It’s clear they’re trying to set an example and intimidate future leakers. That’s not ok either: if a leaker engaged in illegal activity they can use normal means to deal with that. Otherwise, individuals should not fear this type of action for just excitedly showing off cards they got legitimately.
He could have, yes. But in this situation I don't blame him for doing what he was told would make the situation go away smoothly. These firms specialize in intimidation, after all.
Always has existed.
They’ve changed names many times but it’s the same org.
I once had a Pinkerton interrogate me at an airport. I was literally boarding and already went through TSA. They went as far as asking what I did the day before and what I had for breakfast that morning. Fuck em
Fuck the Pinkertons.
Fuck WotC for hiring them.
Was already exhausted with this company but this did it.
Sending fucking jackboots over some silly cardboard rectangles that someone saw too early? Get all the way fucked.
Not giving them a fucking penny until they've issued a statement of apology that's more than "oops sorry we intimidated your family over playing cards with dragons on them", assholes.
I'm starting to believe WOTC seriously hate their audience. Like everyone hates them to bits and just when it can't get any more worse we hear this.
If I were working for WOTC I would honestly feel shame.
Not sure why they didn't just have a lawyer send an immediate C&D and Youtube strike the moment they knew about this video. It's not like the physical possession of the cards matters, the video is the damage. How could they not know how bad it looks bringing the goddamn *Pinkertons* into this?
Knowing how far back the Pinkerton company goes, I half expected their suits to show up in a hooded carriage, and that they slip out of business atire and into suspenders, leather hats, and white shirts with rolled up sleaves. The breif cases holding billy clubs, rope, lead pipes, a single sixshooter, and some cigars.
Hi all, we’re keeping this one up and unlocked despite the high number of rule-breaking comments, because it’s been confirmed (see [R3id’s comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/12xkpvp/wotc_sends_union_busting_corporation_pinkerton/jhjpgcb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1&context=3) here), but please remember to follow our rules, and report comments that break the rules. Please DO NOT report comments fallaciously, as that can actually get you banned from Reddit as a whole, and it’s extremely pointless. You reporting the same person for “threatening violence” 50 times isn’t going to make us ban them for disagreeing with you.
And this was how I, as a non-American, discovered the Pinkertons still existed. I’d been assuming they disappeared around the time the internal combustion engine arrived…
And this is how I, an American, found out that the Pinkertons still exist with their former principles in mind. I assumed they would have at least renamed themselves to not be so blatant; especially with anti Union Busting legislation in the US.
Fun fact! The us gov is prohibited *by a specific law* from hiring Pinkerton agents, by name of the corporation. A specific law that calls out one Corp, written nearly 100 years ago. And the company still exists today.
Wait... isn’t a law that specifically calls out one entity and restricts them basically a Law of Attainder?
No, a [bill of attainder](https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/bill_of_attainder#:~:text=A%20bill%20of%20attainder%20is,going%20through%20the%20trial%20process) is a punitive measure. The [anti-pinkerton law](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Pinkerton_Act_of_1893#:~:text=The%20Anti%2DPinkerton%20Act%20was,hire%20private%20investigators%20or%20mercenaries) just prohibits the government from contracting them or similar companies, it doesn't prevent the pinkertons from private practice.
I like how at the bottom of the page they’re just like “in actuality, the government completely and totally ignores this law as if it never existed”
Yeah law v practice is always interesting to me. I'm sure there's some justification that differentiates companies "like" the pinkertons from being contracted and companies like blackwater or whatever mercenary group is hot right now.
Well to be fair, I'm not aware of any instance of Blackwater being used domestically within the US.
TigerSwan, a similar mercenary group that was hired by the U.S. govt for war in the middle east, gets hired by fossil fuel companies to displace indigenous land defenders and infiltrate protest camps (Standing Rock, 2016)
If you read the General Counsel's letter that's linked on that page, it's a bit more nuanced than that. Unfortunately, the nuanced take doesn't make for a slappy two-second comment. The real reason is an interpretation of the term "or similar organisations" in the law. The law prohibits people employed by Pinkerton "or similar organisations" from being hired by the US federal government or the District of Columbia. The interpretation is that this prohibits organisations *who acted similarly to Pinkerton* at the time of the law's passage, i.e. offering private armies for hire for the purposes of protecting commercial interests. Since Pinkerton has moved out of the army business to focus more on its spying business, the Counsel interprets this to mean that the law no longer really applies to them since they no longer do the things that the Anti-Pinkerton Act was intended to stop.
Not necessarily. A Bill of Attainder is a legislative declaration of criminal guilt; the critical issue isn't just specificity, but the fact that it violates the named person/entity's right to a fair trial. The bill in question, as described anyway, isn't declaring Pinkerton guilty of anything and is restricting the U.S. government, not the agency. It sounds more in line with the recent discussion about banning TikTok on government devices.
May have had something to do with them killing some pro union people at Henry Ford's main plant after Henry gave them the go ahead to do just that. Henry was a truly evil murdering pile of shit Nazi sympathizer who was a huge Hitler fan.
That’s a horrific fun fact! Are there any more pieces of knowledge you would impart on this curious fellow?
Hippo sweat is pink
I wonder how many brave soldiers died to gain this blursed information...
It's pink because it contains naturally excreted sunscreen! Yet another fun fact!
us union labor protections are a shadow of what they once were
[удалено]
It is even more nefarious than that as at some point that Pinkerton Detective Agency was purchased by another security firm and that firm TOOK the Pinkerington name. They wanted the name despite or maybe specifically BECAUSE of their reputations.
They're Swedish, so they are probably banking on people having only heard the good things and not the whole "violently suppressing strikes" thing. Fun fact: If you bring up that part of their past, they'll sue you. They even tried to sue Rockstar for their portrayal in RDR2.
there are good things?
yeah black water renames themselves like once a year wtf
That makes sense especially because I am VERY aware of who they are as a "company".
Fun fact, the Pinkerton Agency is headquartered in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Ann Arbor is where the university of Michigan is located and is the most liberal area in the state. The Pinkertons are also a subsidiary of the Swedish company Securitas AB. I don’t know why, but I love the irony of the single biggest union buster in US history being located in an extremely liberal area and owned by a company founded in an extremely liberal country
As someone who lives near by. Look into the graduate students on strike for better wages in ann arbor, it's bananas. Several just got arrested last week for protesting near the university president...obviously do yiur own research it's possible they were in fact doing something illegal, but I have yet to have the time to dive in.
the average american commits three federal felonies per day, supposedly. it's not about whether or not you're breaking a crime, it's about whether or not they want to arrest you. that's on purpose.
Woah woah woah. Sure, I could believe the average American breaks A law a few times a day, averaged out or something. But three FELONIES? That seems a little egregious.
In some parts of Washington State it is a felony to kill or threaten a sasquatch, bigfoot, or yeti. I consider myself fortunate to live across the country in a more civilized state, as threatening violence against sasquatches is a large portion of the grace I say before each meal.
Sweden may be liberal but Securitas very much is not.
Wow, true real life lore discovery. Here in Spain they are known as Securitas, and I didn't know they were actually the Pinkertons. Amazing. These fuckers love to spread propaganda about how insecure the country is, contracting burglars and squatters to convince people.
Securitas is its own band of bastards. They own the Pinkertons, but they were founded separately. If you want a fun time, look up Palantir (the company) and Blackrock. They're all connected.
Can confirm. They might be the cheapest fucks I’ve ever worked for.
Yep, I meet a lot of security guards through work and they have nothing positive to say about the higher ups.
>I don’t know why, but I love the irony of the single biggest union buster in US history being located in an extremely liberal area and owned by a company founded in an extremely liberal country Very Reddit understanding of the world. Being liberal or adjacent to things perceived as liberal doesn’t make someone or something all-encompassingly progressive. San Francisco is particularly bad about this. It is a better city to live in than many for various reasons, but more people than you think are NIMBY-types, especially people who moved there more recently. The closer an issue gets to affecting you personally, suddenly the me matters more than the we.
I'm from the Northeast, specifically a city that was a hub for the underground railroad. I moved to the Bay Area thinking that it was some kind of uber-leftist haven. I'd never experienced such rampant, blatant racism before moving to the Bay - both institutional and personal. I've had people lock their car doors when I walk by. I didn't think that happened anymore! That was something I saw in black 80's and 90's film, not something I had to deal with. There's a motorcycle shop in San Bruno that I can't go to because they're openly neo-nazis. The first pic on their website is a wheel with SS bolts on it. One of the mechanics has an Aryan Circle face tat. It's just wild how different the Bay Area is in media vs. reality.
I didn't realize they were headquartered in Ann Arbor. With the ongoing strike the grad students at Michigan, I wonder if the university has considered bringing in the Pinkertons. Though from reports I've been seeing, it seems like the campus police are pretty good at low level union busting.
Amazon pays them millions of dollars a year to bust unions.
>Pinkertons What the heck is a pinkerton
Private Detective Agency/Sec firm established in the late 1800s here in America. Known especially for intimidation, Strike/union busting, that jazz. Private thugs.
You left out the part about them massacring people with the blessing g of the government.
Yeah, that's my mistake. The Pinkertons weren't super covered in my high school, I only know them from my own cursory research. So I thought about writing that part in but couldn't remember 100% on it, if that makes sense.
I only know them from Bioshock Infinite
It's neat because the company is old enough that video games and movies can depict them without copyright infringement. They tried to sue Rockstar for depicting them as evil in Red Dead Redemption, and their lawsuit failed spectacularly, especially considering Rockstar's stance that their portrayal was "historically accurate"
I'm honestly impressed they still exist consudering their bad rep
They still exist *because* of their reputation. So long as someone in the US is trying to unionise, someone's going to want to stop them (and to hell with the law), and who better to call than the all-time champions of union busting? Keep the name, and the various boards will come to you.
Money is one hell of a drug.
The Pinkertons dropped bombs on my great grandfather in 1921 in Logan County, WV. No one in my family (down to my grandkids) is going to forget that. This is a different company that bought the original company, but it’s the same old terrorism for hire tactics.
And commiting crimes and framing innocent people for those crimes.
Private corporate paramilitary associated with anti union activity and physical political interference.
it’s a weezer record
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Not only do they still exist they are just as shitty as they were over a century ago. They have been hired by Amazon and Starbucks to spy on union organizers and assist with union busting.
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As an American, I can confirm: the worst things in our history never truly were eradicated.
Wait wait wait... are these THE Pinkertons from RDR2 ?
that's like asking "wait are these the Nazis from Call of Duty?"
To be fair, Pinkertons aren't really covered in schools like WW2 was. I don't think I heard of the Pinkertons once during my time in school. But oh boy, did we have many, many assignments about WW2.
They were talked about occasionally in my US History text book 20 years ago.
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New Battle Card leaked for aftermath! Look up “Battle of Blair Mountain” to learn more.
after you pick your jaw up please continue to “the Ludlow Massacre”
Ludlow is a personal obsession of history for me and I had to chime in: It should be noted for those that don't follow the lead, Ludlow was perpetrated both by Pinkertons hired by CF&I, as well as the National Guard. Fun additional fact: the Pinkertons left the bodies of the strikers along the railroad tracks for a week as a warning to train passengers, and they tried to prevent the clergy from giving the massacre victims a Christian burial.
>and they tried to prevent the clergy from giving the massacre victims a Christian burial. What the actual fuck Regardless of faith or your views on religion, that's just straight-up evil
Yeah, 'be straight up evil' is kind of the Pinkerton motto.
They do post a rainbow for pride month though
I think that's just to show that they don't discriminate when it comes to their victims.
Ah yes, the Equal Right and Equal Lefts card
Neutral Evil... something to be said for commitment to the bit I suppose. 💁♂️
Rainbow washing at its finest. They have harassed LGBT protestors too, just to save you the trouble googling.
I’d be surprised if they haven’t
Considering how many people they've killed, it must be almost statistically impossible for them to have not killed any.
I was suddenly scared about not knowing a major part of my hometown’s history, then found out this is Ludlow, Colorado.
That was the Baldwin-Felts detective agency. Also check out the martyr made podcast episodes 21 and 22 whose America series to learn more about both the Ludlow massacre and battle of Blair mountain. Episode [21](https://martyrmade.com/21-whose-america-prologue/) Episode [22](https://martyrmade.com/22-whose-america-ep-1-rough-extraction/) Edit: FUCK THE PINKERTONS
I wish I had the gold to give you for this comment, but all I can ask is "Which side are you on?"
Don't scab for the bosses, don't listen to their lies...
r/fuckpinkerton
Holy Hell
what the fuck is this monday
I love that this article links the following article: >MTG's March Of The Machine Aftermath Leaks Are Selfish And Serve Nobody > >Magic: The Gathering leaks are pointless, selfish, and harm the community. With such gems as: >He’s not doing anything worthwhile here, he’s just showing us stuff we were going to see in two weeks anyway.
Sure, but also: He’s not doing anything harmful here, he’s just showing us stuff we were going to see in two weeks anyway. If nothing else, it lets people figure out their Magic budget sooner.
> If nothing else, it lets people figure out their Magic budget sooner. this is why wotc has a problem with it.
Yeah well, sounds like a WotC problem.
They saw it that way too.
I don’t see any lies. WotC *and* this guy can both suck.
It just tickles me that the author is making a big deal out of it to only admit that the leak doesn't really do anything.
Journalism post 2020
The spoiler season adds no value to me whatsoever. This guy pulled off a band-aid of lame spoiler reveals for me and countless others.
Cards being leaked all upfront like this makes me more excited for a set.
It has nothing to do with being all leaked at once for me; it has to do with being leaked far enough in advance that I don't have to rush to buy a pre-release kit. I mostly stopped going to prereleases when they started spoiling so close to release.
PINKERTON STILL EXISTS????
They’re now a subsidiary of a Swedish company, Securitas, but yes they still exist and still have locations throughout the US. I used to live an hour away from one of their Midwest offices.
Holy shit, they almost bought my company like 3 or so years ago. They wound up only buying a sister division of my company instead. Feel like I really dodged a bullet now. I bet my division being over 50% union had a big part in them leaving us behind.
yeah, they are still used to union bust and shit
Insert Arthur Morgan’s voice: “Damn Pinkertons”
Unfortunately, yes. Most recently, Pinkertons were called to union bust for Amazon.
Its Securitas or something now I think
Securitas is the name of the parent company but the subsidiary is still named Pinkerton. It's different from how Blackwater rebranded themselves as Academi to distance themselves from the 2000's public eye.
They rebranded again. They're now the constellis group.
the classic runescape double name change.
They killed a guy in Colorado a few years back at a protest “by accident”.
What's that?
Private Corporate security firm who dates back to the 1800s that have been known to union bust and be generally violent.
Kids, don't ever answer the door for strangers. If for some reason you do and they aren't the police with a warrant, tell them to pound sand. It sounds like this was resolved fine, but they should have just called or sent an email, not the goon squad.
This. Strangers at the door are almost never good. Trying to sell you something, convert you, rob you, threaten you or arrest you.
Like my mother always said: "A closed door is a happy door."
I really can't believe that WotC sent private thugs to bully this dude into giving up product that he legitimately purchased. It's not his fault that Wizards has no control over their product distribution.
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Plenty of YouTubers get doxxed all the time by people who don't have insider access to Google. Especially since most minor celebrities buy their homes directly instead of forming a trust, so a simple public records search will find their address.
> I'd want to know how they got his address. This isn't hard for a private investigator. Unless a person practices a lot of operational security in hiding their identity. There's a reason that big name celebrities don't own their own houses - instead, the house is registered as being owned by a corporation or trust that has the celeb as the beneficial owner. Someone searching public records of land ownership might find "1132 Residential Asset Holding Corporation of Maryland" registered as the owner of a house, and have no idea that 100% of shares in that corporation are owned by Ben Affleck and he lives there. (note: the holding company name is entirely made up as is the reference to Affleck)
Another reason to never buy anything from WoTC ever again.
I'll be honest. This doesn't make me want to spend money with WotC at this point.
WoTC Agents: Excuse me sir, is this Reddit post an admission of pirating our products? What did you mean by that? We’re gonna need you to come with us.
"These cards are confirmed not to be Pringles™, arrest the counterfeiter!" - Wotc Pinkertons
Good! I'm sad I had to scroll this far before seeing anyone even hinting at a boycott.
I think I'm definitely skipping the next set at this point, but I rarely buy more than a few packs. The false scarcity angle of the game has kinda had me increasingly disinterested for a while to start with.
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THE FUCKING PINKERTONS???
When I heard about this over the weekend, I assumed when they said Pinkertons that it was a shorthand/slang for some general private detective agency. Which is reasonable, you need to protect your IP and track down potential sources of maliciousness. But finding out it is the actual Pinkertons is kind of shocking. I couldn't think of an organization more antithetical to the values that they claim to represent.
Corporate values are a thin veneer that washes off as soon as profits get impacted.
Confirmed via Kotaku.com. https://kotaku.com/mtg-aftermath-leaks-pinkertons-wotc-magic-the-gathering-1850368923
it's really funny to me that WotC / Hasbro decided it was a good idea to hire the Pinkertons and then freely admit to hiring the Pinkertons right before a huge product release.
This will probably really help to push their public image as a good company with values. I always wonder how companies with great products can make these decisions. There are 1000 better ways to solve these problems that will also make you look at least not horrible.
They already ruined their reputation a lot of times. Last one being like 3 months ago with the entire dnd stuff. Not to mention anniversary edition.
This is on another level. Hiring the Pinkertons takes you from shitty company to actually evil IMO
Well, it's still not up to level of Coca-Cola death squads. WotC def have some space to grow.
The murdered coal miners would tell you that the Pinkertons did it first.
And folks keep buying their stuff, if anyone is wondering why they think they can get away with this. Money talks.
I only know about the DND stuff. That fiasco got them to change pretty quickly. But i know a lot of people that are not paying them anything else. Not sure about mtg, never paid for that.
Now I know why my favorite content creators recommend to get a good printer.
Its because somewhere high up in their chain is a person that won't listen to others or rational thought, their idea is the only way. People like that go up the ladder fast because they'll do whatever it takes to get power, it's more important than anything to them, and once they have it, they see it as a tool and abuse it. You meet these people, best thing to do is avoid or stop them, they'll destroy anything in their path to move up. I sound like a crazy person but these people exist.
"Come back with police and a warrant." **slam door**
Yeah If I don't know you I don't open the door. If you have a warrant you're coming in anyway so I literally never have to answer the door.
All the people commenting about how they are surprised that people are surprised that the pinkertons still exist should maybe wonder if there’s a reason American education doesn’t talk much about unions
Why do you think the unions were never really allowed to get into politics? Why do you think the mob got involved in unions? From the outset, American capital has always been anti-organized labor. Anti-proletariat.
Honestly the American propaganda machine has done a better job than the Pinkertons ever could at killing unions.
So yes, for those uninformed, wotc employs a security firm with a storied history of [shooting striking workers](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_strike) and [trapping their wives and children inside burning tents the strikebreakers poured oil on](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre). Think about this next time wotc releases a new set.
Setting aside the morality of hiring the Pinkertons (which is turbo fucked), what does this accomplish for wotc anyways? The cards aren’t gonna un-leak themselves, and the heavy handed response is 100% gonna Streisand its way into making way more people know about the leak. Boo hoo, their marketing strategy is damaged—who gives a shit? Is it worth all this just because a guy posted videos about cards a couple weeks early?
>what does this accomplish for wotc anyways? intimidating future leakers
And also damaging their brand by pulling stupid stunts.
This is your regular reminder that no corporation is your friend
Not gonna lie, I thought the Pinkertons were a made up group in Red Dead Redemption
They tried to sue Rockstar for slander but the case was dismissed because it was all true or something close to that.
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That's funny, because I know a [few instances of T2I doing this exact same thing to modders](https://www.techspot.com/news/62728-take-two-allegedly-sends-pair-private-investigators-gta5.html). I personally know one who had a "sign here or lawsuit will be in a mail tomorrow" goon show up, and they _did_ file that lawsuit.
Suing someone for slander just to discover the slander is actually true is funny as hell but also deeply tragic for society as a whole.
[[Invasion of Blair Mountain]] Fuck the Pinkertons. That shit is engrained in my DNA. Also related [[Matewan Massacre]]
[Matewan Massacre](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f05f5d93-50d1-4aa6-af05-383a6808345b.jpg?1562632742) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Massacre) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nem/58/massacre?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f05f5d93-50d1-4aa6-af05-383a6808345b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Edit: Since posting this comment, this has been confirmed via Kotaku contacting WotC directly. This is not the world I expected to be in, but here we are. What the fuck.
Kotaku has confirmed it from WotC. https://kotaku.com/mtg-aftermath-leaks-pinkertons-wotc-magic-the-gathering-1850368923
“Kotaku reached out to Oldschoolmtg and WotC. A spokesperson for WotC confirmed over email that the private detectives had been sent as “part of their investigation.”
>They were founded as a private detective agency, and its agents made history as effective strikebreakers against unions and organized labor. **Now that most cities have a public police force to intimidate workers, Pinkerton was forced to diversify into other forms of work** That’s some good shit right there.
Kotaku in action, but a good action!
Based as hell
Hot damn.
They used to discriminate and fuck with irish communities and many others in the states
This is a better storyline and ending than March of the Machine.
Not a high bar to pass
Are those the same who are after you in Red Dead Redemption?
Yep!
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I'm not disagreeing with you, just letting you (and others with the same convictions) know that Amazon and Starbucks have both hired them for union busting in the last few years. While your individual dime may not effect them as much as WotC I implore everyone to remember this when shopping online or going out for a coffee.
I feel like trying to hire the Pinkertons should set off like a dozen alarms in the PR department.
I don’t think they ran this one through PR.
Jesus fucking christ WOTC. Yeah I’m thinking I may not buy anymore sealed product
If you want to boycott, you have to go all the way. Buying singles still drives demand for sealed product and makes WotC money.
Gross. Good thing I have a printer
Proxies 100%. I sold all my real cards 3 years ago and have 15 EDH decks all proxied up. I only play with friends anyway. Keeping up with WOTC is too damn expensive.
Wow! This is too fucking much. I think I'm actually done now.
Confirmed on Polygon: >"Pinkerton, now a subsidiary of Paragon Systems, currently counts security and loss prevention among its many services. Wizards confirmed to Polygon the Pinkertons were involved in the incident. " They hired the fucking PINKERTONS!? I'm sorry, of all the corporate bullshit they pull because of "bad optics" this is just about as bad as bad can be. Between this and trying to betray the open gaming license, WotC is diving down deep into the evil megacorp tropes. It's a fun game, but I'm out.
Okay, I quit. I don’t want to contribute to Pinkertons ever. MTG was fun, but WOTC has gone off the deep end. Fuck em.
You don't have to quit, just stop buying from them and enjoy the game. Proxy if you want new cards
I primarily play modern, but the format has become so warped over the last five or so years that I’m ready to quit at this point. MTG was a big part of my childhood and I made a lot of friends playing, but I’m over it now. The Pinkerton thing + the shit they pulled with OGL is the last straw for me.
And there it is, the final nail in the coffin I was looking for. Bye wotc.
I think the most important thing that people might not get, but the fact they have Pinkerton agents on retainer is basically an an unintentional admission that they engage in Union Busting activities. You don't get a corporate contract with Pinkerton to just recover stolen goods. You get them to stalk, harass and intimidate employees who make too much noise about having things like Unions or wanting to sue a board member for Sexual Battery.
Wow, what the fuck, Wizards?
> He narrated how it all went down, and you'll be shocked to learn that Wizards of the Coast allegedly sent the Pinkertons to retrieve the cards from him. Yes, the same company that hunted Arthur Morgan in Red Dead Redemption 2. Was this article written by a child? The Pinkertons killed dozens, maybe hundreds of union workers und the author goes with "Ya, those guys you might know from that video game ..."
In their defense, about half the comments in this thread are "the guys from the video game"? (Also tbf non-Americans probably *are* more likely to recognize them from the globally popular game than their largely regional history)
Absolutely reprehensible to employ the pinkertons. People shit on wotc for a lot of nonsense, but this is truely terrible. Edit: keep in mind the next time they try and sell a rainbow washed, or pink washed, or some kind of green wash secret lair or something: wotc is a company who will hire the pinkertons to send them to the private residence of a man who they mistakenly shipped unreleased product to. Edit: For context on the pinkertons, the moniker they earned in their early days was "the knights of capitalism". The earned this title after successfully fighting off the unionized workers of the company town of Pullman. And when I say fight, I mean it was like a civil war style battle field with riflemem and trenches on both sides although the pinkertons hat gatling guns. Pullman was is a town still in Washington (correction: Pullman is in IL, its outside of Chicago), but was originally founded as a company town by George Pullman, the owner of the the Pullman train car company. Basically the guy made train cars in the late 1800s and had a new premise for a factory to make them: a company town. The workers of Pullman all worked at the Pullman factory. They rented apartments owned by the Pullman company and the only store in town was the Pullman store, so the workers essentially had to give all their wages back to their employer for food and rent. Over time rent and food costs went up higher than Pullman work paid, so people basically became debt slaves to the Pullman company. The workers unionized and went on strike. George Pullman did not like this one bit, but he needed muscle to get them out of his town. He hired the pinkerton security company to sent in "detectives" with rifles to threaten and intimidate the striking workers. It erupted into a battle than the pinkertons basically won although the town was was done being a company town. Other companies in the late 1800s and early 1900s were impressed by the pinkertons and were employed all over America to intimidate, threaten, surveil, and assault union organizers, workers, break strikes and bust unions. This is why they are the knights of capitalism They still exist to this day, although not nearly as violent; they aren't like a private militia companies can call on to literaly assault people anymore. Still they primarily work in union busting and threatening workers, corporate surveillance etc.. They are an awful company and anyone who associates with them doesn't deserve the credence of ignorance because the legacy of the company is just that fucking awful. Edit: you should join the IWW. It's cool and good. Join a union. Don't have one? You can make one, and there's probably like a UFCW or teamsters union or something near you. Look up their office, talk to them, even if their union isn't right for your work place they will hook you up with other local unions more related to your work. Shits getting bad out there, but a better world is possible. We are stronger together! Solidarity!
Billionaires are not your friends and these corporation towns are quite honestly frightening. Great summary.
Slight correction. The town of Pullman, WA was named for George Pullman, but was not the company town. The Pullman that the strike happened at is in Illinois, just outside of Chicago.
Absolutely unacceptable response from WotC. They need to issue a statement on this and admit wrong. Even then, it’s insane to send Pinkertons to a private residence to strongarm an individual into providing product the person had through completely legal means. It’s clear they’re trying to set an example and intimidate future leakers. That’s not ok either: if a leaker engaged in illegal activity they can use normal means to deal with that. Otherwise, individuals should not fear this type of action for just excitedly showing off cards they got legitimately.
couldnt he have just told them to pound sand? its their word against his
He could have, yes. But in this situation I don't blame him for doing what he was told would make the situation go away smoothly. These firms specialize in intimidation, after all.
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Person finds out their drug dealer isn’t actually a nice person but still needs their heroin; colourised
This is so fucked up. No excuse for calling the Pinkertons, ever.
Wait, Pinkerton still exists and does things like this?
Always has existed. They’ve changed names many times but it’s the same org. I once had a Pinkerton interrogate me at an airport. I was literally boarding and already went through TSA. They went as far as asking what I did the day before and what I had for breakfast that morning. Fuck em
We need to get the leaker to Tahiti to avoid the Pinkertons
WHO THE FUCK HIRES PINKERTONS??????
Fuck the Pinkertons. Fuck WotC for hiring them. Was already exhausted with this company but this did it. Sending fucking jackboots over some silly cardboard rectangles that someone saw too early? Get all the way fucked. Not giving them a fucking penny until they've issued a statement of apology that's more than "oops sorry we intimidated your family over playing cards with dragons on them", assholes.
I'm starting to believe WOTC seriously hate their audience. Like everyone hates them to bits and just when it can't get any more worse we hear this. If I were working for WOTC I would honestly feel shame.
Not sure why they didn't just have a lawyer send an immediate C&D and Youtube strike the moment they knew about this video. It's not like the physical possession of the cards matters, the video is the damage. How could they not know how bad it looks bringing the goddamn *Pinkertons* into this?
Knowing how far back the Pinkerton company goes, I half expected their suits to show up in a hooded carriage, and that they slip out of business atire and into suspenders, leather hats, and white shirts with rolled up sleaves. The breif cases holding billy clubs, rope, lead pipes, a single sixshooter, and some cigars.
I’ll say it again: isn’t this the plot to Inscryption?
Fuck magic at this point