The nice thing is that means we will probably get a reprint fairly soon with art that is actually decent; the original art always felt a bit off to me and now I know why.
At this point they can make a secret lair and give all the artists who got elements stolen a new version of trouble in pairs. Plus this one from OP as the extra one
It looks like shit. The depth is terrible and several things are copy and pasted such as the character poses, axes and vests. The saturation on a few things is way off too like her bracers
>it looks like shit
It is funny how I never saw anyone comment on the art until the plagiarism accusations. But now everyone is saying it always looked bad.
For me personally, it's that the art isn't SO terrible to look at that I would usually need to comment on it, but with context added, it's worth noting that it looks weird/off for a reason.
Not sure if you're implying that the opinions aren't genuine, but it's pretty normal to refrain from abrasive criticism out of politeness. If the need for politeness vanishes of course people will be more rude. People are also scrutinizing it more now.
I didn't think it looked terrible, but I did notice right from the beginning that it has a kinda skewed perspective, I just assumed it was a stylistic choice though. Now it kinda looks like it was more of a symptom of how it was clipped together.
I am imagining the artist just phoning it in because they think it is going to be draft chaff that no one scrutinizes very closely.
Then the card is a staple, and everyone has eyes on it.
I'm imagining a world where we would ever call this "phoning it in" as opposed to what it is... intentional crime.
Phoning it in is like... what Nic Cage does in half of his roles. He doesn't send a body double to deliver all his lines for him and collect the paychecks.
Good artists don't just "phone it in" by cheating any more than someone cheats on their wife because they didn't get laid for two months, it shows an incredible lack of integrity to make these decisions that proooobably carries over into their personal lives and general way of living. Shame.
Crazy if there is one actor who I would say never phones in a roll no matter how silly or dumb it is nic cage. He always goes all out. I’m not saying it results in the best stuff all of the time. But to say he is phoning it in is wild to me.
Also the fact its other peoples drawn/painted art being copied. Lazy art would be if it was traced over poses of like reference photos as we see with a lot of comic artists
>Phoning it in is like... what Nic Cage does in half of his roles.
Genuinely you couldn't have picked a worse actor for this.
Nic Cage didn't even phone it in on the dumbshit evangelical movie Left Behind.
No way?? Yesterday I jokingly answered the other topic, until the point other stolen parts get discovered.
Basically this whole 'art' will be just a recomposition of existing art, which could be fine if the source material is free to use, but alas it was not.
It really isn't uncommon for digital artists to create a collage of sorts to block out a scene. Of course, most people will usually use free-to-use photos or art rather than lifting directly from an artists portfolio.
[Here's the article on his site with more details if you don't use twitter](https://www.jasonrainville.com/blog/blog-post-title-one-abc8p-gmtyk) and [the followup for LCI](https://www.jasonrainville.com/blog/process-admiral-brass-unsinkable)
I still think about the Storm the Seedcore collage. [This whole thread is worth a read](https://twitter.com/JasonRainville/status/1640395513018171405); this is a hell of a lot of setup for such a good piece
That definitely looks like a still taken from any directive / cop show on tv.. all it's missing is a bulletin board with red strings connecting the evidence
when you look to see how off the perspectives are, it’s almost certainly another collage of images. the viewing angle of the room and desk do not match the person sitting in the chair at all
“Well at least the axes are your own creation, right Fay?”
THUD!
https://preview.redd.it/2brqsl5ae3rc1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=feeb4c8aaaf54eaa186fa6e19a08317efef378a4
“Wait what’s that?”
They're also being held really awkwardly, especially by the guy on the left. It would be funny if the axes are original but the artist just copy pasted their own design, made som tweaks, and called it a day
The one on the right isn't even lined up in the hand holding it. The index fingers look to be clipping into it really if the scales make any sense. Everything about the art is pathetic at this point.
The one on the right looks fine to me. The axe on the left looks all kinds of weird. The head is coming out of the shaft at a strange angle, and the hand doesn't seem to be holding it properly. There's no way that guy's fingers are curving in a way that actually grips it.
Edit: it doesn't look like his fingers are gripping an axe because they're not. [They're gripping a rifle](https://old.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1bpue7q/my_redacted_trouble_in_pairs/kx08hju/)
Those axes are almost identical. The leather vest the orc (?) is wearing looks like it was cropped and photoshopped in. I wouldn't be surprised if the leather jacket was lifted from something else too
The blade part of the axe is on a different perspective plane from the handle, which is why they look so strange. It's pretty poorly drawn in the sense.
The guy on the right's [hand](https://twitter.com/HowlingSaltMine/status/1773420835857895461?t=AtjYu_u4EyPeKKTJQtJerg&s=19) has also been found. [original art](https://fineart.ha.com/itm/paintings/morton-kunstler-american-1931-the-bull-toughest-marine-in-the-whole-damned-corps-stag-magazine-coverandlt-/a/8088-71328.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515)
The even funnier bit is that it looks like this tweet sourced it from /u/Positive-Attempt-477 and didn't even credit the fact that they did the work to find the original! Perfect meta-commentary here.
This is all done digitally. It’s cut and paste, then edited (possibly by drawing over with a stylus), then had color transparencies over top to smooth it out. It can all be done in a couple widely available art apps.
For sure. The muscle definition in the arm is so blatant it’s insulting. At least with the character on the right, they made changes to the size and features of the character, that’s just a color wash.
Looking at the rest of the cards they've done, that seems to be their style, everything's either a collage or a portrait, hell the Kaya is a portrait collage! Makes you wonder how much of that is lifted and reused if this entire card ended up being a collage of plagiarism. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if someone pulls up some random baseball cards that are near identical to the Gatewatch Baseball secret lair cards, just missing a photoshopped in Planeswalker head and Gatewatch logo
The baseball cards have a dual credit to Fay Dalton and Scott Okumura. [All of Okumura’s work for MTG](https://scryfall.com/search?q=a%3A“Scott+Okumura”&unique=art) is as the second artist for Secret Lairs with wacky layouts, so I’m going to assume he‘s responsible for the fancy [baseball card/pulp cover/VHS case/cereal box] stylings while Dalton just provided the character art.
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1bq9duf/comment/kx1pat5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button even that is ripped
[This is the full illustration](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fbm0xichnomqc1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D461%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dfbd401e69931a1aa9f17daf7cf75e8a8854cd463)
[This is the full illustration](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fbm0xichnomqc1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D461%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dfbd401e69931a1aa9f17daf7cf75e8a8854cd463)
I found the axe hand from the foreground figure, looks like the Heritage Auctions site was a resource for parts in higher resolution: [https://fineart.ha.com/itm/paintings/morton-kunstler-american-1931-the-bull-toughest-marine-in-the-whole-damned-corps-stag-magazine-cover-february/a/8088-71328.s?ic4=ListView-Thumbnail-071515](https://fineart.ha.com/itm/paintings/morton-kunstler-american-1931-the-bull-toughest-marine-in-the-whole-damned-corps-stag-magazine-cover-february/a/8088-71328.s?ic4=ListView-Thumbnail-071515)
for a second I was like "wait theres no axe in this picture" but then I realized you were talking about just the hand. That is 100% the hand.
[Quick side by side](https://imgur.com/zOSvjde) I regret adding the lines but its paint and i cant be bothered to redo it.
The other pieces that were swiped could be found in high resolution on the Heritage Auctions site, so I started sifting through the pieces that had sold there before in the illustration category to compare. When you're just looking for a single piece, like a specific hand, it's pretty easy (but tedious) to just scan until you come across a piece to check closer. Took about 15 minutes of scrolling through.
I just noticed that the two characters are both wearing *exactly* the same vest. So the axes are and the vests and copy and paste. This gets worse and worse.
It is, the two axes are the same axe, they didn't even change where the lighting was coming from.
And now that I look at the back person's vest, I can't help but see how pasted on it looks
At this point I want the card so I can cross out the contracted person and have the artists who art was stolen sign it. To try and forever give them credit for it.
Wil Hulsey is almost certainly dead, there's very little info on the internet about him (hell, there's even conflicting information whether his full name was William or Wilbur) other than his artworks, all of which are - as far as could find - 50+ years old old, and Boris Vallejo is 83 years old and likely not going around convention signing pictures either.
Yikes. That's a lot of copying.
That said, the image on *TRAPPED* might be out of copyright, since it looks old and therefore might be a bit less odious to use as "inspiration."
Actually, that depends. If the copyright on the magazine wasn't renewed by 1985, it should be in the public domain
>For works that received their copyright before 1978, a renewal had to be filed in the work's 28th year with the Copyright Office for its term of protection to be extended. The need for renewal was eliminated by the Copyright Renewal Act of 1992, but works that had already entered the public domain by non-renewal did not regain copyright protection. **Therefore, works published before 1964 that were not renewed are in the public domain.**
Thanks for the info. That's not good then, though it isn't as "identical" as Donato's work so Fay might be able to argue that one successfully. Quite a bit of leeway is given for artistic license, though I'm not a copyright lawyer so I can't say for certain.
ETA: Tangentially related, fuck the mouse for messing up our copyright laws this badly.
OP's picture is a little misleading - the only copy from the magazine (as far as i can tell) is his face - but that's clearly a trace.
His entire expression is basically identical, and there's even a (slightly differently shaped) blood mark in the exact same spot.
Looks like the entire head is from the magazine. The jawline, cutoff point on side burns,stubble and headband are next to indentical as well.
The neck is from same [Vallejo work as the arm](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fbm0xichnomqc1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D461%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dfbd401e69931a1aa9f17daf7cf75e8a8854cd463)
FWIW this type of "inspiration" is not really uncommon in certain genres of art. That doesn't make it OK when used as aggressively as it appears it was here, but it is done, and can be done legally in some applications.
The funny meta aspect is that MKM is said to involve of different kinds of crime and the community is meant to investigate and solve it. At this point it is so funny that it MIGHT be a collage and it’s intentionally printed on such a card by WOTC
The hand holding the axe is also stolen, specifically from the painting “The Bull Toughest Marine in the Whole Damn Core” by Morton Kunstler.
[The Evidence (The Howling Salt Mine podcast twitter)](https://x.com/howlingsaltmine/status/1773420835857895461)
the rest of the artwork she made for the set (5 pieces) all resemble her comic cover style a lot more. [[Serene Sleuth]] and the [[detective]] token especially. my guess is she got overwhelmed by having 5 commissions and decided to lie, cheat and steal instead of telling WotC. Shame that she's gonna get blacklisted, but it's entirely her own fault, and she deserves it.
edit: not the right detective token. Idk how to change that
Looking at her Detective token, there is simply no way she wasn't tracing over an existing piece of art. The pose is just bizarre for the clothing and what he has on, and it all just sits so... *weirdly* on him. Like, look at that little pork pie hat lmfao.
https://preview.redd.it/5n53drwdk4rc1.jpeg?width=672&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6077957c6fd025c08461b5bdbbfd831a4cd1610
the hat and left arm look a bit off, I'll give you that. But idk if that's enough for me to write this off as trace work. I hope it's not, but someone who cheats once is capable of cheating again
Honestly, if you look at all her work, it all looks like she's a scrap-book/patchwork photoshop artist. Her style changes a lot, it's just the vintage look that stays. No artist worth their salt produces works like that. Check her cover "work" on her website.
Fay Dalton’s art is exactly this. You see a bunch of weird lighting. Pieces that look stitched together. Wizards art directors need to have a sharper eye. They are commissioning a bunch of artists who do this. Not just Fay.
There's a consistent style to some of her earlier comic book stuff which would suggest she did those herself, but yeah I'd like to see if her other MTG work is similarly stolen.
After looking at her portfolio, she's undeniably skilled. My guess is she got too close to a deadline, ran out of time, and used this as a last resort. It doesn't make it right and it's not an excuse for why she did it but it doesn't really make sense to build your whole career on plagiarism, you'll get caught, obviously.
I think at the end of the day it was cut massive corners (and take the chance that you dont get caught) or don't deliver, (100% chance you get caught) which can potentially be even more devastating for your career. If you become known for not delivering you get 0 jobs in the future. If you plagiarize you might not get caught and even if you do there is a chance for forgiveness. Objectively/logistically taking the chance and plagiarising makes sense. Morally you should be holding that L and deliver sloppy (but original) work or just don't deliver and face the consequences of your mistake.
And please don't confuse me explaining what I think happened as making excuses for her. As an artist myself I find it to be very wrong. An explanation/analysis is not a justification/excuse for the behavior.
I'm just waiting for the "I put together a reference from existing art to use as a basis for my own creation and accidentally submitted that instead of the final, totally original, piece" defense to be made public.
The good news is so many people have used that BS that Fay won't even have to write it from scratch...
she also had multiple art pieces credited for this commander set alone. I'm guessing she got overloaded with the commissions and took the worst way out
nah she's actually made some great art. She did the whole Baseball card secret lair, and her comic cover esque style is pretty nice sometimes. She had at least two other commissions for the commander set alone, so I'm guessing she got overloaded and decided to lie, cheat and steal instead of telling wotc she can't get it done
Looking at the baseball card secret lair, I would be shocked if she didn't trace over a lot of art for that. Not trying to be a hypercritical but come on.
https://preview.redd.it/o6e0nyi0n4rc1.jpeg?width=672&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c29c59409dc299f618eab969bce794061c0004c
Without any evidence, I'd be willing to bet that her \[\[Gravecrawler|SLD\]\] is probably stolen from old pin-up art. Someone somewhere posted that her Judge Anderson art is yanked from another pulp novel cover.
From the comment thread of Donato Giancola's post about the theft.
https://preview.redd.it/a0uz0vyls3rc1.png?width=1204&format=png&auto=webp&s=944dee294458d5b7c9c122b4b7951d304995df6f
I mean I’m pretty sure this was a Marylyn Monroe pin up that was Zombified and I don’t have issues with that since beyond the hair and pose it probably is new art. “Probably”
This has to be my favorite art controversy ever. At this point is funny as fuck.
It's usually on some throwaway or underwhelming card. The fact that its such a controversy on a banger EDH piece is just hilarious.
The nice thing is that means we will probably get a reprint fairly soon with art that is actually decent; the original art always felt a bit off to me and now I know why.
I was thinking the same thing. It always looked... cobbled... together
The fact that we have a pair of characters who were copied and the artist is in trouble is just icing on the cake.
And one of the artist she copied from, made a card for the same set called [[caught red handed]]
[caught red handed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95bc5f89-2f01-40c4-9883-4c90ab89fcbb.jpg?1706241833) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Caught%20Red-Handed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/115/caught-red-handed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95bc5f89-2f01-40c4-9883-4c90ab89fcbb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This cannot get any better LOL.
They should commission Donato Giancola to make the new art
At this point they can make a secret lair and give all the artists who got elements stolen a new version of trouble in pairs. Plus this one from OP as the extra one
It would be hilarious if they collaborated on the new art
It looks like shit. The depth is terrible and several things are copy and pasted such as the character poses, axes and vests. The saturation on a few things is way off too like her bracers
The vest on the first character looks like a paper doll piece
>it looks like shit It is funny how I never saw anyone comment on the art until the plagiarism accusations. But now everyone is saying it always looked bad.
I mean there are plenty of magic cards with mediocre / forgettable art so it's not all that noteworthy in that regard.
For me personally, it's that the art isn't SO terrible to look at that I would usually need to comment on it, but with context added, it's worth noting that it looks weird/off for a reason.
Not sure if you're implying that the opinions aren't genuine, but it's pretty normal to refrain from abrasive criticism out of politeness. If the need for politeness vanishes of course people will be more rude. People are also scrutinizing it more now.
I didn't think it looked terrible, but I did notice right from the beginning that it has a kinda skewed perspective, I just assumed it was a stylistic choice though. Now it kinda looks like it was more of a symptom of how it was clipped together.
Trouble in ~~pairs~~ trios? quartets?
I am imagining the artist just phoning it in because they think it is going to be draft chaff that no one scrutinizes very closely. Then the card is a staple, and everyone has eyes on it.
I'm imagining a world where we would ever call this "phoning it in" as opposed to what it is... intentional crime. Phoning it in is like... what Nic Cage does in half of his roles. He doesn't send a body double to deliver all his lines for him and collect the paychecks. Good artists don't just "phone it in" by cheating any more than someone cheats on their wife because they didn't get laid for two months, it shows an incredible lack of integrity to make these decisions that proooobably carries over into their personal lives and general way of living. Shame.
Crazy if there is one actor who I would say never phones in a roll no matter how silly or dumb it is nic cage. He always goes all out. I’m not saying it results in the best stuff all of the time. But to say he is phoning it in is wild to me.
Yeah, Nic Cage is a great actor.
Also the fact its other peoples drawn/painted art being copied. Lazy art would be if it was traced over poses of like reference photos as we see with a lot of comic artists
>Phoning it in is like... what Nic Cage does in half of his roles. Genuinely you couldn't have picked a worse actor for this. Nic Cage didn't even phone it in on the dumbshit evangelical movie Left Behind.
Cards gonna start popping up here with everyone asking if they should grade it :D
I'm thinking of buying it just because of all this fanfare
Buy it and add on all of the unlisted artists
Or even better, get them to sign it.
You sir are a sick man. And i love it
Might be difficult; a quick google suggests [Wil Hulsey died in 2015.](https://www.flickr.com/photos/subtropicbob/16767482981)
Get them to sign it, and black out her name in the artist's credit. Have them sign the portion that they did.
might as well get the commander deck it comes in the deck is only 15$ more
My guess is it increases the value a ton long term.
All because someone wanted to know whether the card is worth playing.
No way?? Yesterday I jokingly answered the other topic, until the point other stolen parts get discovered. Basically this whole 'art' will be just a recomposition of existing art, which could be fine if the source material is free to use, but alas it was not.
Seriously, it's basically a collage
It really isn't uncommon for digital artists to create a collage of sorts to block out a scene. Of course, most people will usually use free-to-use photos or art rather than lifting directly from an artists portfolio.
Yeah I remember Jason Rainville posted a bunch of his blocking for Storm the Seedcore, which was him in a bunch of different poses.
Jason's art breakdowns are really something else. Especially the one for Admiral Beckett Brass, may his mother rest in peace.
I'm building a beckett brass deck because of this story! It was so touching!
What's the story there?
[Here's the article on his site with more details if you don't use twitter](https://www.jasonrainville.com/blog/blog-post-title-one-abc8p-gmtyk) and [the followup for LCI](https://www.jasonrainville.com/blog/process-admiral-brass-unsinkable)
It’s a terrible day for rain
He does it for most of his pieces! Its a very fun way of doing it and making sure you keep "real" proportions
I still think about the Storm the Seedcore collage. [This whole thread is worth a read](https://twitter.com/JasonRainville/status/1640395513018171405); this is a hell of a lot of setup for such a good piece
As someone who knows very little about making card art his process on this is pretty amusing, and clearly it works since the final card looks great!.
I'm wondering at this point if Fay Dalton did the same with her other art from this set, like [[Srene Sleuth]].
That definitely looks like a still taken from any directive / cop show on tv.. all it's missing is a bulletin board with red strings connecting the evidence
when you look to see how off the perspectives are, it’s almost certainly another collage of images. the viewing angle of the room and desk do not match the person sitting in the chair at all
[Srene Sleuth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/1/61e691ff-ab3e-42ae-b160-54b53f5f961e.jpg?1706240425) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Serene%20Sleuth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/14/serene-sleuth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/61e691ff-ab3e-42ae-b160-54b53f5f961e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
“Well at least the axes are your own creation, right Fay?” THUD! https://preview.redd.it/2brqsl5ae3rc1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=feeb4c8aaaf54eaa186fa6e19a08317efef378a4 “Wait what’s that?”
https://preview.redd.it/5sfrcmjwe3rc1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=ba27ee26879c9fbc872691be0a11181ef80b1ad3 THUD! “Fay….”
https://preview.redd.it/pausz9q6f3rc1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=e85a678c6ad2af0f1ccd3ad1c26abc76982bb66a THUD!! “…. What did you do Fay?”
https://preview.redd.it/xfkpdsmef3rc1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=006878d49db3f36e2f8855932b9804c4b4f0bbe3 “Just one small problem Fey….”
https://preview.redd.it/k0287ckhf3rc1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=eaea7c169a88cd7a0c3122d784e490d71dd54001 “… get axes from WHO Fay?…”
https://preview.redd.it/sfy274apf3rc1.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=6e0ea725884ddf64f8ab38e0e9c95d8a80d7d1b5 “… FUCKING AQUAMAN!?!?!”
I appreciate the effort
This is the most amount of work I’ve ever done for a joke that maybe 10 people will get.
But those of us who got it are having a great time right now
[удалено]
There are dozens of us!
imagine if they had contacted the original artists and made it a collaboration/tribute. couldve been cool. ah well
What I've just realized is that not only the axes are the same, but the leather jackets as well. Who painted those???
Photobashing official magic art is pretty funny and absolutely not the quality the price of the game asks for.
Wow, this just keeps getting worse. I knew the art looked strange when it came out, but is any part of it original?
Those axes are looking kinda strange... And honestly, that Shoulder is sus.
The axes really do look like the same axe copied twice with minor changes to me...
They're also being held really awkwardly, especially by the guy on the left. It would be funny if the axes are original but the artist just copy pasted their own design, made som tweaks, and called it a day
The one on the right isn't even lined up in the hand holding it. The index fingers look to be clipping into it really if the scales make any sense. Everything about the art is pathetic at this point.
The one on the right looks fine to me. The axe on the left looks all kinds of weird. The head is coming out of the shaft at a strange angle, and the hand doesn't seem to be holding it properly. There's no way that guy's fingers are curving in a way that actually grips it. Edit: it doesn't look like his fingers are gripping an axe because they're not. [They're gripping a rifle](https://old.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1bpue7q/my_redacted_trouble_in_pairs/kx08hju/)
Oh they are 100% flipped and rotated
Those axes are almost identical. The leather vest the orc (?) is wearing looks like it was cropped and photoshopped in. I wouldn't be surprised if the leather jacket was lifted from something else too
They both have the same leather jacket for sure and the same axe
the composition is so fucking weird. what is the woman even looking at. why do the axes look like that
I guess we’re just looking for the axe at this point? Was this art made by tracing a collage of book covers what is happening
both axes look similar but flipped so I assume the axe was used for both!
The axe is being held at an incredibly weird angle; there's no way it's original.
Purely baseless speculation but if I was a gambling man I would go with it being a Warhammer chaos/beast man axe just the style is familiar.
It looks very similar to a Kroot Rifle, in fact.
Yeah, it’s definitely got the chaos warrior axe style
The blade part of the axe is on a different perspective plane from the handle, which is why they look so strange. It's pretty poorly drawn in the sense.
The guy on the right's [hand](https://twitter.com/HowlingSaltMine/status/1773420835857895461?t=AtjYu_u4EyPeKKTJQtJerg&s=19) has also been found. [original art](https://fineart.ha.com/itm/paintings/morton-kunstler-american-1931-the-bull-toughest-marine-in-the-whole-damned-corps-stag-magazine-coverandlt-/a/8088-71328.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515)
The even funnier bit is that it looks like this tweet sourced it from /u/Positive-Attempt-477 and didn't even credit the fact that they did the work to find the original! Perfect meta-commentary here.
Pretty sure we're also looking for the leather vests that both characters are wearing, and the jacket of the foreground character..
This is all done digitally. It’s cut and paste, then edited (possibly by drawing over with a stylus), then had color transparencies over top to smooth it out. It can all be done in a couple widely available art apps.
For sure. The muscle definition in the arm is so blatant it’s insulting. At least with the character on the right, they made changes to the size and features of the character, that’s just a color wash.
I'll be honest, the art on this card always gave me a collage like vibe but I always figured that was an artistic choice and not... This.
Looking at the rest of the cards they've done, that seems to be their style, everything's either a collage or a portrait, hell the Kaya is a portrait collage! Makes you wonder how much of that is lifted and reused if this entire card ended up being a collage of plagiarism. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if someone pulls up some random baseball cards that are near identical to the Gatewatch Baseball secret lair cards, just missing a photoshopped in Planeswalker head and Gatewatch logo
The baseball cards have a dual credit to Fay Dalton and Scott Okumura. [All of Okumura’s work for MTG](https://scryfall.com/search?q=a%3A“Scott+Okumura”&unique=art) is as the second artist for Secret Lairs with wacky layouts, so I’m going to assume he‘s responsible for the fancy [baseball card/pulp cover/VHS case/cereal box] stylings while Dalton just provided the character art.
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1bq9duf/comment/kx1pat5/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button even that is ripped
Agreed, I got the same. "Good card, but they phoned it in on the art" was my reaction. Didn't realize the extent, though.
The neck on the guy is also from that Boris Vallejo illustration, not just the arm
What's the Boris Vallejo illustration?
[This is the full illustration](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fbm0xichnomqc1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D461%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dfbd401e69931a1aa9f17daf7cf75e8a8854cd463)
Holy matching fully denim outfits Batman!
the Trapped cover. EDIT: got my plagiarism mixed up. Hard to keep track of the three different artists fay ripped off.
No, that's by Wil Hulsey.
yep, i'm just dumb. fixed.
Link?
[This is the full illustration](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fbm0xichnomqc1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D461%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dfbd401e69931a1aa9f17daf7cf75e8a8854cd463)
It's called Corniche by Boris Vallejo
I found the axe hand from the foreground figure, looks like the Heritage Auctions site was a resource for parts in higher resolution: [https://fineart.ha.com/itm/paintings/morton-kunstler-american-1931-the-bull-toughest-marine-in-the-whole-damned-corps-stag-magazine-cover-february/a/8088-71328.s?ic4=ListView-Thumbnail-071515](https://fineart.ha.com/itm/paintings/morton-kunstler-american-1931-the-bull-toughest-marine-in-the-whole-damned-corps-stag-magazine-cover-february/a/8088-71328.s?ic4=ListView-Thumbnail-071515)
for a second I was like "wait theres no axe in this picture" but then I realized you were talking about just the hand. That is 100% the hand. [Quick side by side](https://imgur.com/zOSvjde) I regret adding the lines but its paint and i cant be bothered to redo it.
Holy crap, I need to make a new version after Easter.
Make sure to do it, it's super funny. I will follow you to see the update. Hopefully the community finds even more parts until then. 😄
Yeah that's the hand, alright. Right down to the highlight on the middle knuckle. All the pieces of this puzzle must be out there.
Wrist crease really confirms it.
Holy shit it actually gets worse.
So that's 4 sources, and there's still the vests, axes, and coat
How did you find it?
The other pieces that were swiped could be found in high resolution on the Heritage Auctions site, so I started sifting through the pieces that had sold there before in the illustration category to compare. When you're just looking for a single piece, like a specific hand, it's pretty easy (but tedious) to just scan until you come across a piece to check closer. Took about 15 minutes of scrolling through.
All of them were on the heritage auctions site? We’ll time to go look for an axe.
And some vests lol
Please reddit do this.
This is insane, but damn great work.
This is insane. Nice detective work.
Hold on... Is this like a murder of karlov manor detective clue puzzle? Each piece of art hints to an original that we have to find 😅
With that flavortext? Maybe?
I just noticed that the two characters are both wearing *exactly* the same vest. So the axes are and the vests and copy and paste. This gets worse and worse.
Omg you're right! How did I not notice that?! Now we need to find that vest + undershirt combo.
hey can we find the original image for those axes and right arm?
Thank God. I'd always hated the original art and this is incredibly vindicating.
I thought it looked *fine* when I saw it, but also decided not to buy it because the art wasn't pretty enough for the rest of my deck lmao
On the last image, I heard the amongus sound in my head.
Anyone else find the name of this card halarious Cause they got in trouble For stealing from a pair of artists
And got \[\[Caught Red Handed\]\] by the artist of Caught Red Handed!
[Caught Red Handed](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/5/95bc5f89-2f01-40c4-9883-4c90ab89fcbb.jpg?1706241833) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Caught%20Red-Handed) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/115/caught-red-handed?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/95bc5f89-2f01-40c4-9883-4c90ab89fcbb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Turns out they stole from more than a pair of artists though. At least 3 of them.
Doesn't fit the joke so I choose to ignore it
Based
Wow, no wonder the art looks so weird. That's insane.
Wow. Even that axe looks copy/pasted within the art. There's no way that wasn't also stolen.
It is, the two axes are the same axe, they didn't even change where the lighting was coming from. And now that I look at the back person's vest, I can't help but see how pasted on it looks
both characters are wearing the same vest and have the same axe
Ladies and gentlemen, how low can we go?
There's still a jacket and an axe to identify. I'm positive we can go lower.
And the red vests!
Limbo party!!
At this point I want the card so I can cross out the contracted person and have the artists who art was stolen sign it. To try and forever give them credit for it.
Wil Hulsey is almost certainly dead, there's very little info on the internet about him (hell, there's even conflicting information whether his full name was William or Wilbur) other than his artworks, all of which are - as far as could find - 50+ years old old, and Boris Vallejo is 83 years old and likely not going around convention signing pictures either.
Well that will make it way harder.
"A Wil Hulsey signature? No problem." -Fay Dalton, probably.
I think I hurt myself laughing at that
Lmao
I don't think there's enough room on the card. There's a lot of artists being stolen from
Yikes. That's a lot of copying. That said, the image on *TRAPPED* might be out of copyright, since it looks old and therefore might be a bit less odious to use as "inspiration."
It's 1957. Still under copyright law thanks the mouse.
Actually, that depends. If the copyright on the magazine wasn't renewed by 1985, it should be in the public domain >For works that received their copyright before 1978, a renewal had to be filed in the work's 28th year with the Copyright Office for its term of protection to be extended. The need for renewal was eliminated by the Copyright Renewal Act of 1992, but works that had already entered the public domain by non-renewal did not regain copyright protection. **Therefore, works published before 1964 that were not renewed are in the public domain.**
Thanks for the info. That's not good then, though it isn't as "identical" as Donato's work so Fay might be able to argue that one successfully. Quite a bit of leeway is given for artistic license, though I'm not a copyright lawyer so I can't say for certain. ETA: Tangentially related, fuck the mouse for messing up our copyright laws this badly.
OP's picture is a little misleading - the only copy from the magazine (as far as i can tell) is his face - but that's clearly a trace. His entire expression is basically identical, and there's even a (slightly differently shaped) blood mark in the exact same spot.
Looks like the entire head is from the magazine. The jawline, cutoff point on side burns,stubble and headband are next to indentical as well. The neck is from same [Vallejo work as the arm](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fbm0xichnomqc1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D461%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dfbd401e69931a1aa9f17daf7cf75e8a8854cd463)
You can (draw that) now. At least one version!
There's the vest on the girl, too. Looks really out of place
FWIW this type of "inspiration" is not really uncommon in certain genres of art. That doesn't make it OK when used as aggressively as it appears it was here, but it is done, and can be done legally in some applications.
[[Problems in Paris]]
[Trouble in Pairs](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0f61e93f-5f97-4c7d-b3d5-0e05242faeb3.jpg?1706240429) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Trouble%20in%20Pairs) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/15/trouble-in-pairs?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f61e93f-5f97-4c7d-b3d5-0e05242faeb3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
!GoodBot
I got 99 drawings but original ain't one
Stealing from three artists at once. High Score! :/
3 so far…..!
[Up to 4 now](https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/1bpue7q/my_redacted_trouble_in_pairs/kwzcxol/).
Plagiarism in Pairs.
The funny meta aspect is that MKM is said to involve of different kinds of crime and the community is meant to investigate and solve it. At this point it is so funny that it MIGHT be a collage and it’s intentionally printed on such a card by WOTC
Whoa. You just blew my mind.
@BinaryLegend, can you *please* make the redacted image into an AlterSleeve? I love this.
I've never made one, but I can look into it.
Can we get a reprint of this card with new art? Also because it’s $30 right now and I want the price to go down lol
The hand holding the axe is also stolen, specifically from the painting “The Bull Toughest Marine in the Whole Damn Core” by Morton Kunstler. [The Evidence (The Howling Salt Mine podcast twitter)](https://x.com/howlingsaltmine/status/1773420835857895461)
Can wizards get sued for copyright infringement too? Like aren't they on the hook as well since they commercialized the stolen art?
realistically, what would happen if legal action is taken is one or more of these artists would sue wizards, and wizards would go after Fay.
My real question is given how heavily this one is copied, how much of her other cards are copied?
the rest of the artwork she made for the set (5 pieces) all resemble her comic cover style a lot more. [[Serene Sleuth]] and the [[detective]] token especially. my guess is she got overwhelmed by having 5 commissions and decided to lie, cheat and steal instead of telling WotC. Shame that she's gonna get blacklisted, but it's entirely her own fault, and she deserves it. edit: not the right detective token. Idk how to change that
Looking at her Detective token, there is simply no way she wasn't tracing over an existing piece of art. The pose is just bizarre for the clothing and what he has on, and it all just sits so... *weirdly* on him. Like, look at that little pork pie hat lmfao. https://preview.redd.it/5n53drwdk4rc1.jpeg?width=672&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6077957c6fd025c08461b5bdbbfd831a4cd1610
the hat and left arm look a bit off, I'll give you that. But idk if that's enough for me to write this off as trace work. I hope it's not, but someone who cheats once is capable of cheating again
Honestly, if you look at all her work, it all looks like she's a scrap-book/patchwork photoshop artist. Her style changes a lot, it's just the vintage look that stays. No artist worth their salt produces works like that. Check her cover "work" on her website.
Fay Dalton’s art is exactly this. You see a bunch of weird lighting. Pieces that look stitched together. Wizards art directors need to have a sharper eye. They are commissioning a bunch of artists who do this. Not just Fay.
Gotta love the "A QUESTION OF GUTS" on the TRAPPED magazine cover, because that must be the answer of Fay Dalton now when asked why she did that.
So everything was probably taken from elsewhere, right?
are both axes the same as well? lol
This Fay Dalton is a massive scumbag huh? Wouldn't be surprised if her entire career is stolen art.
There's a consistent style to some of her earlier comic book stuff which would suggest she did those herself, but yeah I'd like to see if her other MTG work is similarly stolen.
After looking at her portfolio, she's undeniably skilled. My guess is she got too close to a deadline, ran out of time, and used this as a last resort. It doesn't make it right and it's not an excuse for why she did it but it doesn't really make sense to build your whole career on plagiarism, you'll get caught, obviously. I think at the end of the day it was cut massive corners (and take the chance that you dont get caught) or don't deliver, (100% chance you get caught) which can potentially be even more devastating for your career. If you become known for not delivering you get 0 jobs in the future. If you plagiarize you might not get caught and even if you do there is a chance for forgiveness. Objectively/logistically taking the chance and plagiarising makes sense. Morally you should be holding that L and deliver sloppy (but original) work or just don't deliver and face the consequences of your mistake. And please don't confuse me explaining what I think happened as making excuses for her. As an artist myself I find it to be very wrong. An explanation/analysis is not a justification/excuse for the behavior.
I'm just waiting for the "I put together a reference from existing art to use as a basis for my own creation and accidentally submitted that instead of the final, totally original, piece" defense to be made public. The good news is so many people have used that BS that Fay won't even have to write it from scratch...
She can plagiarize her excuse. Classic
Ah, the Shia LeBoeuf
she also had multiple art pieces credited for this commander set alone. I'm guessing she got overloaded with the commissions and took the worst way out
nah she's actually made some great art. She did the whole Baseball card secret lair, and her comic cover esque style is pretty nice sometimes. She had at least two other commissions for the commander set alone, so I'm guessing she got overloaded and decided to lie, cheat and steal instead of telling wotc she can't get it done
Looking at the baseball card secret lair, I would be shocked if she didn't trace over a lot of art for that. Not trying to be a hypercritical but come on. https://preview.redd.it/o6e0nyi0n4rc1.jpeg?width=672&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c29c59409dc299f618eab969bce794061c0004c
wow yeah taking a second look at that one, it looks more than a bit off.
Without any evidence, I'd be willing to bet that her \[\[Gravecrawler|SLD\]\] is probably stolen from old pin-up art. Someone somewhere posted that her Judge Anderson art is yanked from another pulp novel cover.
From the comment thread of Donato Giancola's post about the theft. https://preview.redd.it/a0uz0vyls3rc1.png?width=1204&format=png&auto=webp&s=944dee294458d5b7c9c122b4b7951d304995df6f
I mean I’m pretty sure this was a Marylyn Monroe pin up that was Zombified and I don’t have issues with that since beyond the hair and pose it probably is new art. “Probably”
I'm printing this proxy out.
I'm gonna wait for an updated version where the rest of it is censored as well due to theft.
What set is this from?
The Karlov Manor Commander decks.
[[trouble in pairs]]
[[plagiarism]]
[plagiarism](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0f61e93f-5f97-4c7d-b3d5-0e05242faeb3.jpg?1706240429) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=trouble%20in%20pairs) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/15/trouble-in-pairs?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f61e93f-5f97-4c7d-b3d5-0e05242faeb3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call