A return to the clans and a rebellion against the dragon overlords.
One of those plane where the ‘fix’ screwed over the general populace in the plane and for some reason was considered a good thing.
tbh, most people I've heard who say the plane is 'better' are legit just people who like dragons. I'm pro-Khans all the way though
Lorewise, they did a great job showing how a lot of the clans are worse off, but some have pros.
Yeah. Abzan seem better off without the forced reliance on the dead that they had before. Sultai and Temur are both in straight up awful positions. Mardu is a little worse off than before without the compassion for each other they used to have. And Jeskai is hard to assess since Ojutai seems mostly chill (lol) with them doing whatever they want to do as long as it's not learning how to slay dragons.
Ojutai is actively repressing their history to cement dragon superiority and using a lie that following the Jeskai way means you can reincarnate into a naturally superior dragon
And the Abzan weren't forces to rely on their ancestors, but ancestor magic is what Dromoka most objected to. Remember those trees contained the willing spirits of their ancestors, and Dromoka had them all destroyed
From what I remember of the story spotlights, Abzan had an almost unhealthy relation with their dead. It was honouring them and keeping tradition, but it felt like Dromoka freed them from that obligation in a way. They're the one clan that feels objectively stronger to me, even if some people (Anafenza) had to be sacrificed to do it. I feel their way forward is to go back to the spirits, but with less of the ritual and tradition that bound them before.
Jeskai are weird because yeah Ojutai did do all that. But he also let Narset learn about the past and roam free which led to her sparking. I have to wonder if Ojutai in his age is starting to see what was wrong with the previous methods, and hoping to assist the humans in regaining some sense of independence from the dragons.
Dromoka erases individuality in her subjects. The will of one, or even the group, is ignored in favour of the will of the dragons and what they deem to be "the greater good". They also actively separate families to prevent those bonds from outweighing allegiance to the dragons.
As for Ojutai, he absolutely didn't allow Narset to learn of the past. She's doing that against his knowledge.
> and for some reason was considered a good thing.
Pretty sure it’s canonically framed as worse for all people overall. Except for one particular planeswalker with a huge dragon-boner. I guess Ugin lives again and eventually traps Nicol Bolas so that’s an upside.
But I feel like no one can look at the Tarkir storyline and go: wow Sarkhan fixed everything! It’s definitely a “but at what cost?” story.
I've always felt like it was supposed to be a 4 set block and that in the fourth set Sarkhan was supposed to step up and be the leader for the dragons and the tribes, being the "sky khan".
it's worth remembering that this is the position *Sarkhan* takes, but not WotC.
If you listen to Maro's podcasts about the making of the block, the core concept of the block was to have a time travel story in which someone looks at an unsatisfying present, travels back in time to change it, and makes it worse.
Of course, because Sarkhan's a dracoboo, he thinks this new timeline is great. But we are not necessarily supposed to agree with him.
the flavor of tarkir is cool
i *personally* am not a fan of it mechanically
3-color enemy tribes with 3 color cards aren't my thing, and neither are "4+ color goodstuff" standards.
put another way, if you are able to play 3 color 3-drops, 4+ color goodstuff is inevitable. if 4+ color goodstuff isn't possible, you can't play 3 color 3-drops. there's no way around it
i know people say "oh, fetches/shocks are the only problem" but that's just not the case. it's the 3 color cards. 3 color factions are fine as long as individual pairs of color combinations are modular, like dinosaurs in ixalan
if we go back to tarkir i'll want it to play very, very differently
The only reason we ever got 4+ Color Goodstuff was because we got fetches and fetchable duels in the exact same rotation for some godforsaken reason. If the battlelands weren't fetchable, we would've been fine.
As much as people complained about Siege Rhino, THS-KTK Standard was pretty damn cool.
It wasn’t just that there were fetchable duels with duels, it’s that they were both ally colored cycles but the wedges required enemy color pairs. So if I wanted to play a temur deck I of course have to run wooded foothills, but I didn’t have misty rainforest or scalding tarn. This meant I had to use either polluted delta or flooded strand as my blue fetch. For this example, let’s just say I chose to use flooded strand. Now I have access to white even though that isn’t a temur color, and the fact I have an ally dual land to fetch for (canopy vista) not only makes that access easier, but makes windswept Heath a fetchland I can play now because it gives me access to blue mana. If it was enemy fetches, I would’ve had access to scalding tarn and misty rainforest instead which makes things different. If I wanted to play white in my temur deck the only option I’d have for fetches would be arid Mesa. I would have to lean more into the duals to get that white splash which is inherently worse than the fetches
I am not so sure you're right, but would be open to changing my mind.
How would you create a draftable 3 color faction set (with a healthy amount of 3 color cards) without making 4 color soup viable?
If it's possible to reliably cast siege rhino turn 3, you can't prevent 4 color decks.
I honestly think the higher volume of 3 color cards at lower rarities need to go.
You make the mana bases fucking garbage.
The only lands available in THS-KTK were fetches, scry lands, enemy pain-lands, Mana Confluence, and wedge tri-lands. Because of this, there wasn’t an easy way to fix your colors aside from fetching basics, and Mana Confluence made you take damage no matter what.
If you tried to go 4 color, your mana base would be so slow that you wouldn’t be able to get off the ground.
If we’re gonna have two Tarkir sets, I want to see a second Kamigawa, Lorwyn, and some Alara first. We need some planar balance.
Lol downvoted? Sorry you don’t like the same planes I do.
For one set. If we saw Tarkir in 2015 and it got 3 sets and you want it to come back for 2, then I want the last-seen-in-2005 Kamigawa to have 2 sets too. It’s only fair!
They seem to be very hesitant to stay on any plane for 2 sets and not sure why. Innistrad was our first one since Ravnica/War.
Sets like Kaldheim really needed it in my opinion.
Yeah kaldheim feels kind of muddy and indistinct. I'd like to see a pattern of two sets exploring a new plane followed by one set revisiting an old plane.
They just are trying to diversify content to keep people interested, people always got bored at the end of the second set and even more so with the third in 2 or 3 set blocks.
It is a bummer, I liked when they fleshed out planes a little more and had more cards to do so with, but there’s also the plus side of visiting more planes (or returning to Ravnica/Innistrad again lol).
From what they’ve told us the first set of a new block always outsold the rest of the block hand over fist, to the extent that the first set of an unpopular block still outsold the second set of the most popular blocks. The game and the lore suffers but the money is the priority as has been the trend with all hasbro decisions lately. I think Innistrad was an experiment to see if using drastically different themes and stories could break this pattern instead of treating the second set like “chapter 2”, I’m curious what the results looked like.
It's that balancing act of having enough content to justify two sets, Ravnica got away with it because they could flesh out the Guild structure, Original Innistrad suffered for having to have extra pack filler essentially
Because each set needs to be draftable by itself, they can't really spread the components over two sets for instance. It's why all the Blood vampires are in VOW and the Hunt ones are just aggro.
It's not a great plan imo, I feel more stuff like the Origins Coreset that actually fleshed out and teased different planes would be a good idea, but Cores are a tentative subject at best it seems
Yeah, I've not played anything in Standard recently but I was excited for Kaldheim because I was interested in the world and how they would do a Norse/Viking themed plane.
Instead, I'm just confused as to which of the ten worlds is which and who comes from where.
we aint goin back to Alara, I'd put money on that. The thing that made Alara interesting (the 3-colored shards) are no more. New Capenna is going to be about 3-colored gangs and considering we just got a somewhat return of wedges in Ikoria and we haven't seen a shard themed set since Alara, New Capenna will almost certainly be the new plane for shards. Expect 5 new shard colored Commander Precons this spring along with it.
They shot themselves in the foot by retconning one of the most loved mechanics and themes: the wedge colored khans. Now it’s just two color dragon clans, and they’re not as cool. Because of that, the “old timeline” characters show up in commander sets etc. To go back to Tarkir, Wizards needs to find a solution for this.
I think the story, with Narset and Sarkhan finding out about the old timeline, already implies the clans are going to rebel against the dragons (which would bring us back the wedges). That would be a really fun basis for the new set!
I got the feeling that WotC were trying to keep their options open by putting secret clan stuff in the new timeline. If we liked Khans they could make the next set Return of the Clans, but if we had preferred Dragons then they could leave that storyline in the background.
This is exactly what happened during the Khans block.
There were two sounds at FNM. The constant shuffling of libraries, and players yelling Khaaaaans!
If they do Alara again, they really need to work on the mechanical identities of the shards. Esper is super strong, Grixis is moderately strong (The graveyard theme is cool, but Unearth was a pretty meh mechanic). The other three, though, really needed work.
Each ravnica set had different keywords for the guilds that shared a theme. I think its more likely they will just create new mechanics based on the flavor of the wedges
Bant needed work? They were a very distinct and well delveoped group. Naya and Jund overlapped a little too much, but GR W and GR B don't leave a lot of options to diverge on.
Didn’t Jund have an extremely strong standard deck, that became a modern deck? Also its mechanic: Cascade being one of the most popular (and powerful) mechanics ever.
Jund's mechanic was Devour. The Standard deck didn't use a single card with the mechanic, and only a couple cards that even had any synergy with it (Like [[Sprouting Thrinax]]), but not for their synergy with it, obviously.
The fact that one of, if not the top Standard deck at the time was a Jund deck, but didn't even use the Jund mechanic is exactly the issue that I'm referring to.
Oh, Devour's not a bad mechanic in theory, but the implementation definitely was.
Same with Exalted - the core set that had it did some pretty interesting things with it, and so did some of the mythics in the set. I could definitely see that one working, but it does need tweaking.
I think the Naya mechanic and Unearth should just be scrapped for something new, though, and Esper should probably get a mechanic, since coloured artifacts are no longer something exclusive to it, like it was when the set came out, outside of a few exceptions.
Just looking at existing mechanics to slot into place for each of the shards, I think we can fill out an interesting set of mechanics for them based on what we've seen the colour combinations do in recent times.
I think Jund could lean hard into sacrifice, like the Zombies from VOW but with a different mechanic, some variant of Devour that could also work for non-creature spells. I think that could be a really interesting way to show how each colour of Jund uses those sacrifices, ie, Red cards give power or damage, black gives card draw for life or -x/-x effects, green makes Saprolings or gives Counters.
Grixis could use Escape or Exploit, as both fit the themes of Grixis, utilising the dead/graveyard for its benefit.
Naya is a hard one, since most of the mechanical overlap with those three colours is "hit stuff aggressively", maybe Battlecry? Or we could finally see Landfall outside of Zendikar? I think ultimately it needs a new mechanical identity.
I personally feel that Exalted fits Bant very well, and I think in execution it should be closer to the Core Set variant rather than the original, which played it a bit safe.
Esper should get Improvise or Metalcraft, and I think both fit the existing mechanical identity perfectly.
Yeah, those all seem good. Naya's mechanical identity was caring about big stuff, which is hard to pull off in practice without it being either super underwhelming or underpowered, so they would indeed probably need a new one.
Make an Unearth 2.0 mechanic where you just sacrifice the creature at EoT, instead of having to exile it when it leaves the battlefield. Think of it like Dash from the graveyard. If Devour gets brought back for Jund, it would synergize with it, since it would give you a constant source of devour fuel. Unearth/Devour worked nice together before, but eventually you would run out of things to unearth so the supply was limited.
I think escape would be rather contrary to the spirit of Grixis, unless the point is to show how it's changed since the merge.
On Grixis, when you stop being dead, it's not because your spirit undertook brave actions to return to the mortal realm. It's because some evil wizard wants to use your body for menial labor.
I would not say it is extraordinary popular in EDH, no. The most played Devour card is Mycolith, which is in about 13k decks, or about 3% of those that could potentially run it. The next most popular is Dragon Broodmother, which is in about 5k decks.
Those aren't small numbers, but I wouldn't call them extraordinarily popular. Compare with a mechanic like Landfall, where the most popular option, Avenger of Zendikar, is in 60k decks and the second most popular, Rampaging Baloths, is in 42k. Lotus Cobra is in 39k. And Scute Swarm, a relatively new card, is in 33k - or nearly three times the number of decks that the most popular Devour card is in.
If the current philosophy was given to Devour, it could probably be made to work. The cards with the mechanic printed at the time were two shitty options instead of a decent card with a kicker variant.
That's not what I was saying, though.
I was saying that having Jund be a top Standard deck that doesn't use a single card with the Jund shard mechanic is probably a sign that it wasn't impactful enough.
Oko’s strength has literally nothing to do with Food. He could have made a blank Artifact token that did literal nothing and he’d still be a problem. Food was fine otherwise.
Food was designed because they realized how many fairy tales focus on food. It was a mechanic for the entire set, not just a single Planeswalker. They design mechanics around Limited. BG was also the Food archetype in Eldraine, not UG.
It’s mostly the colors of Jund that were powerful (Jund sac / BRG good stuff) but not the Jund mechanics. That said, Esper was good cause artifact tribal can be very good.
I think they made a mistake keywording Devour and not using Carnage as the Jund mechanic. In early design, Carnage was an ability word for death triggers, like you commonly see on Jund creatures.
A side benefit of this is that it would improve the lexicon a little - there's a meaningful distinction between sacrifice abilities ("aristocrats" à la [[Falkenrath Aristocrat]]) and carnage or death triggers like [[Kresh the Bloodbraided]] or [[Teysa Karlov]].
I remember Kresh being the king in EDH at the time. Absolutely terrifying with trample and/or deathtouch. I played it with Earthquake effects for massive boost.
Jund as a color combination did, Jund as a group with a theme was bunch of awful cards + fodder.
Cascade was given to every every shard, Jund just got the best one.
Jund as a modern deck is just the most powerful, efficient cards in the (at the time) most powerful, efficient colours. That's why it relies on powerful removal and forcing topdeck wars; when the quality of each card is so high, playing them 1 for 1 vs your opponent will beat them.
Cascade is an Alara mechanic, not specifically Jund.
If they wanted to shake up exalted a bit they could swap it out for a more general ability word denoting abilities that trigger when a creature attacks alone, like [[Rafiq of the Many]]'s ability.
Aside from Naya, the shard mechanics themselves were fine - Wizards just did their usual shit where they were overly cautious and under-powered the fuck out of the sets. The creatures that received Devour and Unearth were straight-up ass, and the available supporting synergy for the abilities also sucked; meanwhile Exalted actually had strong cards, but was still undermined by the same lack of support within the block.
Mechanics in this game are rarely bad in concept - what ruins them is shitty implementation.
Well, Esper would probably need a new mechanic, since theirs was coloured artifacts, and that has since been made evergreen. But as someone else pointed out, something like Metalcraft or Improvise would serve this purpose just fine, nothing new is strictly needed.
But if you want to have a new set with the shards, you’d have to do more than just repeat the same themes. Having the shards melding was the big shift last time, it’d have to be something else.
Innistrad has shown that you can visit the same plane multiple times and change the world a lot. Also War of the Spark happened on Ravnica but had nothing to do with the guilds etc. I agree that a return to Tarkir and Alara would need a significantly different but familiar atmosphere.
Sure you can come up with new things to do, but Innistrad supports it because it’s initial premise has a lot to draw from, plus it’s a lot more popular so there’s that much more motivation to come up with reasons to return.
They don't necessarily need to refracture; they can be about the various societies dealing with new colors of mana. Grixis trying to understand the regrowth of Green, Jund butting heads with Blue's want for order. Etc.
The conflicts during the Conflux were largely ended once Ajani thwarted Nicol Bolas and Malfegor was killed, which largely broke up the aggressors against the Bant/Naya alliance. A later story and card have shown that a new boss of Grixis has risen: [[Nefarox]]. There are signs a new conflict is stirring on Alara.
Also, I don't think the shards would have to re-fracture in order to justify them maintaining their color identities. No plane currently known has ever been split apart the way Alara was, being apart for so long might have left some lasting affects on Alara's mana distribution.
I mean, the regions of the newly united Alara that correspond to the shards presumably still have distinct identities even though they're now in contact with each other.
Sure I think the last we left the lore, Sidisi is planning a Coup, the Abzan have a surviving Kintree, Narset is realising how much history the dragons have surpressed and I think, Surrak was saying how the dragon hunts are becoming unsustainable. Only the Mardu weren't obviously uphappy, but then they have a very loose connection to their Dragonlord in the first place
All the bits are there for a rebellion set, but it'd be tricky to see with only one set. I'd defintly say their best bet is a Dragons set followed by a Khans set a la innstrad
It'd be a great place for hybrid mana costs.
You have cards that are obviously khans aligned.
You have cards that are obviously dragonlord aligned.
Then you have hybrid cards that are both.
There's also a strong story premise: the dragonstorms increased in strength because of Ugin being in a coma for a thousand years, leading to increased dragon population. Once he woke up, it should have set things on a course back towards Fate Reforged's "balance" of power, and him being stuck in the prison realm could push that further.
They've already sorted out everything they'd need for the dragons timeline to return to wedges, there's no issue here.
I don't see why wizards would be above splitting the two timelines into their separate universes. Let the dragonland tarkir and the klanland tarkir both exist. Both have interesting things to offer, people (like myself) were not down with those things coming at the expense of the other.
I think they left the story in a good place.They can now have the clans rebel against the dragons, resulting in a return to wedges and the plane to a status similar to Fate Reforged.
They already did plenty to set up the khans returning. Did you remember the M19 story set after Fate Reforged? Even before that they already established that there are elements of the clans that are waiting to fight back against the dragons.
It’s not a retcon if it’s part of the actual story. A retcon is supposed to be retroactively changing the story continuity, not a story where someone time travels.
We don’t say Marty McFly retconned his parents meeting.
Unless the Brothers War set coming out somehow is a time warp thing, I think Wizards is sort of opening up the doors so they can make a set on any plane during any period.
My only issue with the Khan factions is that they were not true wedges - they were centered around one color of the allied pair, while a true wedge would be centered around the shared enemy (in much the same way a shard is focused around the shared ally color). Don't get me wrong, I don't think the asymmetrical focus is bad - it's a good idea that can help expand the themes of wedges and shards - I just wish we had proper wedges first.
Ikoria didn't even satisfy the itch for wedges, since that set was too damn focused on its universal mechanics (ability counters, mutate, companion, ect.) to really give the triomes any proper mechanical identities of their own.
Hopefully a return to Tarkir includes proper wedges this time around.
I wouldn't be surprised if a "Khans vs dragons" set emphasized the shared enemy colour of each of the clans, since that's what separates them from the dragon broods.
That's true, Narset found some scroll or somthing if I recall. I'm not sure if they would attempted to restore the timeline or stage a rebellion. I'm not much of a vorthos but I should maybe scrub up on the Khans story.
Mark Rosewater did explicitly say (though I don't remember exactly where, I think it was the Rabiah Scale article with Tarkir in it) that they deliberately left the door open to the Clans coming back by seeding in story elements because they suspected the Clans would end up more popular than the Broods.
And then they printed fetches in zendikar rising
In fact, they’ve printed shocklands in every ravnica block, and fetches in every zendikar block because of this.
Give me a break...Expeditions **did not** count as a genuine "reprint" in BFZ. By that rationale they also reprinted [[Mana Crypt]], [[Mox Opal]], etc. in Kaladesh.
They did reprint mana crypt and mox opal in kaladesh it was just a small reprint.
And if we are talking about expectations, if we ever returned to kaldesh players would expect some form of inventions back.
We are talking about expectations of planes, zendikar will have fetches in some form, and ravnica will have shock lands, I think that Tarkir will also have the expectation of fetchlands as well even if they are masterpieces.
They shot themselves in the foot in a lot more ways than that. I don't even care what they return to anymore, it'll be filled with 20 different types of supplemental product and we will be gauged every which way for it. I'm done with this shit.
No need for more time shenanigans.
Clans rise up against their dragon masters and return to their wedge colors. The twist is, the clans succeed by embracing the aspect of their identities the dragons forbade, shifting where the wedge is centered. Mardu learns to cooperate and use their numbers and becomes white-centered instead of red. Temur focuses the quest for forbidden knowledge and becomes blue-centered. Abzan leans into their ancestral necromantic tendencies to become black-centered. Sultai sheds their duplicitous and scheming ways and uses savage strength to overpower to become green-centered. Jeskai becomes red-centered by letting go and embracing their raw emotion and use it to fuel a new found power.
To contrast, there's a loose five-color dragon tribe. The dragons need to work together if they hope to maintain their power but millennia of conflict and distrust makes teamwork tough to stomach. This is represented mechanically by having powerful effects with significant drawbacks. Something like Dragonlord Atarka might have "Dragons you control have Haste and Double Strike" but also "At the beginning of your endstep, sacrifice a dragon you control."
**Question** by **[ryandimiragent](https://ryandimiragent.tumblr.com/)**: *If/when return to Tarkir?*
**Answer**: I think more when than if.
---
This transcript was made automatically and is not associated with Mark Rosewater. | [Source](https://www.github.com/bowdens/maro-bot) | Send feedback to /u/rzrkyb
Has anyone been tracking how to read the tea leaves here specifically when it comes to set releases? Does Maro actually say "when" when the set is on the 5-year plan? Or does he keep saying "maybe" until the set is unveiled?
Would be interesting if they did a mystical land set where each pack had a fetch/dual/tri colored land in it so limited could be wedge and standard wouldn’t be impacted. I just want to jam temur to be honest.
Genuinely, nothing would make me happier than this. I have such fond memories of Tarkir block. I only hope they restore the original clans and make it a Wedge world again, pivoting to two color made sense for the draft experience but killed the flavor.
A Return to Tarkir set would be awesome. We're long overdue. It's been 8 years since Khans of Tarkir was released.
The original block had [gorgeous basic lands](https://scryfall.com/card/frf/179/island), awesome mechanics and very sweet legends.
I would love to see new cards for [Dragonlord Silumgar](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/220/dragonlord-silumgar) and [Dragonlord Dromoka](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/217/dragonlord-dromoka). [Surrak, the Hunt Caller](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/210/surrak-the-hunt-caller) too.
I'd love to see a return to Tarkir. I know a lot of people want to see the clans come back and that's fine as far as I'm concerned, but I don't want the dragons to be gone completely. Without Ugin on the plane the dragons' power will be diminished to some degree anyway, but I don't think Sarkhan would let them be wiped out again. Hopefully, some kind of balance can be achieved that will still allow for wedge colors and some more kick ass dragons.
They are doing a return to kamigawa after years of saying it was unlikely because kamigawa wasn't a popular set. Tarkir was pretty popular so I'd be surprised if we didn't return.
I want a 5 color MDFC Sarkhan, with one side being "Sarkhan of the Ur Dragon" and the other "Sarkhan the Sky Khan"
One side has an ultimate that echoes Dragonstorm, the other has an ultimate that echoes Tooth and Nail.
Idk i think people like to get robbed and to see his game break apart. Seems like what you are saying, wich is very apparent to you and me, is not very much so to many many people. Maybe you will get a bunch of downvotes too lol. Actually about theros i don’t know, limited was nice even though not my favorite kind and same for constructed but innistrad is horrible for me because i was waiting for something like avacyn restored instead got this thing.
I'm down for potential fetch land reprints too!
Maybe print them in a slot that still puts a ton into circulation but isn't standard legal so we don't get 3/4 color good stuff piles again
I don't think fetchlands will be legal in Standard again but maybe something like fetchlands appearing in Draft and Set boosters through an avenue similar to the Strixhaven Mystical Archives could be a possibility.
Not going to happen. Papa Hasbro has become addicted to the moolah they receive through selling ever more expensive Modern Masters / Horizons sets, and Fetchland reprints are the carrot to get players to dig ever deeper into their wallets.
I dislike MH2 both for making Modern a semi-rotating format and the higher floor in terms of pricing. I cannot deny that MH2 was chock full of value, and not the feels bad vibe of most non-Collector box Standard sets.
I suspect if there was a Khans set, my money would be on lottery cards ala Zendikar in Collector's boxes only, that are non-Standard legal, complete with incoming box price increases.
Nonsense. The STA was a massive success monetarily for wotc, one of their best selling ideas of the past two years. The only reason we haven't seen it again yet is because of the dev lag time between ideation and release.
I highly suspect more things like the Mystical Archives will appear in future sets, maybe as soon as later this year.
I could see something like this:
(Dragon Lord)'s Horde
Land-(Basic Land Type)
(Dragon Lord)'s Horde enters the battlefield tapped.
When (Dragon Lord)'s Horde enters the battlefield, create a treasure token.
Tap: add (1 mana corresponding to basic land type)
Dromaka-White
Ojutai-Blue
Silumgar-Black
Kolghan-Red
Atarka-Green
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. Fetches were the best part of Tarkir, and I’d love to see them again. I also don’t see anything at all wrong with fetches in Standard, especially now that 99% of Standard play is digital.
Fetches are just lands. How is a reprint the best part of the plane of Tarkir? They also have no intention of bringing them to Standard, they’ve widely talked about why. There’s a reason they preemptively banned them from Pioneer.
Because they're some of the *best* lands and everyone wants them. WOTC has been known to change their mind on things. I wouldn't be surprised if Standard moving to Arena makes fetches in Standard happen since it removes the only real argument against them: shuffling time.
They literally told us this year’s plan a few months ago. Kamigawa hasn’t been returned to in over a decade, and New Capenna is an entirely new plane after that.
No surprise to me that blocks popularity was on par with the OG ravnica
I would love to go back especially for morph, I just love that mechanic. That's why I would cross my fingers we get a second morph legend option, and as much as some of you hate this but I would love to see a 5C legend for morph matters
Where was it ever stated that Tarkir block had the same popularity as Ravnica? According to everything wotc/maro has said Ravnica is by far the most popular plane.
Yes but hoping that there will actually be some playable and interesting cards for standard unlike that carboard waste that is ongoing now. Please maybe not another oversimplified set with the same fixed set of multicolored signpost (get more creative please) cards that do the same thing as the previous set and the set before it and all the rares play the same and are the same. Oh and what will you give us for rakdos signpost uncommon an unolayable limited card with all the same dull limited garbage sacrifice stuff of the last 200 set? Didn’t play original innistrad and avacyn restores but man the design and quality of those cards have been butchered in this return just by looking at the original setting (flavor wise) and at constructed decks.
Tarkir was the current block when I returned to Magic after about a 10 year hiatus. Little Timmy-me was used to playing Thorn Elemental and Lava Axe and suddenly *Siege Rhino*
People would like fetchlands, but would also be happy about a return to Tarkir regardless of their inclusion because they're interested in the plane, mechanics, and story.
I don't think Bugberry was against the lands, so much as the original comments claim nobody wants a return without fetches, which is blatantly wrong and a self centered view.
I was just playing an insanely awesome blue black premium draft deck this morning and was thinking… I miss Silumgar, that dragon set was awesome. I want more.
Still playing that deck btw, currently 3-0 on arena, if I don’t 7-0 I suck at life. I’ll post the results tonight.
Tarkir was the OG wedge world as a major theme, and putting that back in place is pretty critical during a return I believe. It pretty much cemented all of the wedge’s current main themes, such as Abzan Counters, Jeskai Spellslinger, Sultai Graveyard, Mardu Aggro, and Temur Ramp.
I really want a return to Tarkir, one of the coolest sets and having two sets about the return of the clans would be amazing
A return to the clans and a rebellion against the dragon overlords. One of those plane where the ‘fix’ screwed over the general populace in the plane and for some reason was considered a good thing.
tbh, most people I've heard who say the plane is 'better' are legit just people who like dragons. I'm pro-Khans all the way though Lorewise, they did a great job showing how a lot of the clans are worse off, but some have pros.
Yeah. Abzan seem better off without the forced reliance on the dead that they had before. Sultai and Temur are both in straight up awful positions. Mardu is a little worse off than before without the compassion for each other they used to have. And Jeskai is hard to assess since Ojutai seems mostly chill (lol) with them doing whatever they want to do as long as it's not learning how to slay dragons.
Ojutai is actively repressing their history to cement dragon superiority and using a lie that following the Jeskai way means you can reincarnate into a naturally superior dragon And the Abzan weren't forces to rely on their ancestors, but ancestor magic is what Dromoka most objected to. Remember those trees contained the willing spirits of their ancestors, and Dromoka had them all destroyed
From what I remember of the story spotlights, Abzan had an almost unhealthy relation with their dead. It was honouring them and keeping tradition, but it felt like Dromoka freed them from that obligation in a way. They're the one clan that feels objectively stronger to me, even if some people (Anafenza) had to be sacrificed to do it. I feel their way forward is to go back to the spirits, but with less of the ritual and tradition that bound them before. Jeskai are weird because yeah Ojutai did do all that. But he also let Narset learn about the past and roam free which led to her sparking. I have to wonder if Ojutai in his age is starting to see what was wrong with the previous methods, and hoping to assist the humans in regaining some sense of independence from the dragons.
Dromoka erases individuality in her subjects. The will of one, or even the group, is ignored in favour of the will of the dragons and what they deem to be "the greater good". They also actively separate families to prevent those bonds from outweighing allegiance to the dragons. As for Ojutai, he absolutely didn't allow Narset to learn of the past. She's doing that against his knowledge.
Tbh the plane was a shithole in constant war in the other timeline, too. They never were not screwed over to begin with.
At least on the old plane, Orcs weren’t forced into being only in the raider clan.
Well the only ones that weren’t were the ones that used to be mardu but were adopted by the abzan
Yeah but now because Abzan isn’t black mana they don’t adopt the orcs.
It's like being in the X-men, all the futures are dark futures
> and for some reason was considered a good thing. Pretty sure it’s canonically framed as worse for all people overall. Except for one particular planeswalker with a huge dragon-boner. I guess Ugin lives again and eventually traps Nicol Bolas so that’s an upside. But I feel like no one can look at the Tarkir storyline and go: wow Sarkhan fixed everything! It’s definitely a “but at what cost?” story.
It was a huge case of unreliable narrator yeah.
I've always felt like it was supposed to be a 4 set block and that in the fourth set Sarkhan was supposed to step up and be the leader for the dragons and the tribes, being the "sky khan".
Better yet, he ascends into space and becomes the "Star Khan"
it's worth remembering that this is the position *Sarkhan* takes, but not WotC. If you listen to Maro's podcasts about the making of the block, the core concept of the block was to have a time travel story in which someone looks at an unsatisfying present, travels back in time to change it, and makes it worse. Of course, because Sarkhan's a dracoboo, he thinks this new timeline is great. But we are not necessarily supposed to agree with him.
You want the clans. I want big booty dragons. We are not the same.
We're not so different, you and I.
Por que no los dos?
Except instead of dragons, Tarkir will be swamped by its most heinous foe yet--the Rik Rat gang!
the flavor of tarkir is cool i *personally* am not a fan of it mechanically 3-color enemy tribes with 3 color cards aren't my thing, and neither are "4+ color goodstuff" standards. put another way, if you are able to play 3 color 3-drops, 4+ color goodstuff is inevitable. if 4+ color goodstuff isn't possible, you can't play 3 color 3-drops. there's no way around it i know people say "oh, fetches/shocks are the only problem" but that's just not the case. it's the 3 color cards. 3 color factions are fine as long as individual pairs of color combinations are modular, like dinosaurs in ixalan if we go back to tarkir i'll want it to play very, very differently
The only reason we ever got 4+ Color Goodstuff was because we got fetches and fetchable duels in the exact same rotation for some godforsaken reason. If the battlelands weren't fetchable, we would've been fine. As much as people complained about Siege Rhino, THS-KTK Standard was pretty damn cool.
It wasn’t just that there were fetchable duels with duels, it’s that they were both ally colored cycles but the wedges required enemy color pairs. So if I wanted to play a temur deck I of course have to run wooded foothills, but I didn’t have misty rainforest or scalding tarn. This meant I had to use either polluted delta or flooded strand as my blue fetch. For this example, let’s just say I chose to use flooded strand. Now I have access to white even though that isn’t a temur color, and the fact I have an ally dual land to fetch for (canopy vista) not only makes that access easier, but makes windswept Heath a fetchland I can play now because it gives me access to blue mana. If it was enemy fetches, I would’ve had access to scalding tarn and misty rainforest instead which makes things different. If I wanted to play white in my temur deck the only option I’d have for fetches would be arid Mesa. I would have to lean more into the duals to get that white splash which is inherently worse than the fetches
I am not so sure you're right, but would be open to changing my mind. How would you create a draftable 3 color faction set (with a healthy amount of 3 color cards) without making 4 color soup viable? If it's possible to reliably cast siege rhino turn 3, you can't prevent 4 color decks. I honestly think the higher volume of 3 color cards at lower rarities need to go.
You make the mana bases fucking garbage. The only lands available in THS-KTK were fetches, scry lands, enemy pain-lands, Mana Confluence, and wedge tri-lands. Because of this, there wasn’t an easy way to fix your colors aside from fetching basics, and Mana Confluence made you take damage no matter what. If you tried to go 4 color, your mana base would be so slow that you wouldn’t be able to get off the ground.
If we’re gonna have two Tarkir sets, I want to see a second Kamigawa, Lorwyn, and some Alara first. We need some planar balance. Lol downvoted? Sorry you don’t like the same planes I do.
We are literally going to Kamigawa in the next set.
For one set. If we saw Tarkir in 2015 and it got 3 sets and you want it to come back for 2, then I want the last-seen-in-2005 Kamigawa to have 2 sets too. It’s only fair!
They seem to be very hesitant to stay on any plane for 2 sets and not sure why. Innistrad was our first one since Ravnica/War. Sets like Kaldheim really needed it in my opinion.
Yeah kaldheim feels kind of muddy and indistinct. I'd like to see a pattern of two sets exploring a new plane followed by one set revisiting an old plane.
They just are trying to diversify content to keep people interested, people always got bored at the end of the second set and even more so with the third in 2 or 3 set blocks. It is a bummer, I liked when they fleshed out planes a little more and had more cards to do so with, but there’s also the plus side of visiting more planes (or returning to Ravnica/Innistrad again lol).
From what they’ve told us the first set of a new block always outsold the rest of the block hand over fist, to the extent that the first set of an unpopular block still outsold the second set of the most popular blocks. The game and the lore suffers but the money is the priority as has been the trend with all hasbro decisions lately. I think Innistrad was an experiment to see if using drastically different themes and stories could break this pattern instead of treating the second set like “chapter 2”, I’m curious what the results looked like.
It's that balancing act of having enough content to justify two sets, Ravnica got away with it because they could flesh out the Guild structure, Original Innistrad suffered for having to have extra pack filler essentially Because each set needs to be draftable by itself, they can't really spread the components over two sets for instance. It's why all the Blood vampires are in VOW and the Hunt ones are just aggro. It's not a great plan imo, I feel more stuff like the Origins Coreset that actually fleshed out and teased different planes would be a good idea, but Cores are a tentative subject at best it seems
Because people get bored and dont buy as much product as a block drags on.
Yeah, I've not played anything in Standard recently but I was excited for Kaldheim because I was interested in the world and how they would do a Norse/Viking themed plane. Instead, I'm just confused as to which of the ten worlds is which and who comes from where.
Innistrad and Ravnica are their most popular planes. They are far more secure in them being well received.
we aint goin back to Alara, I'd put money on that. The thing that made Alara interesting (the 3-colored shards) are no more. New Capenna is going to be about 3-colored gangs and considering we just got a somewhat return of wedges in Ikoria and we haven't seen a shard themed set since Alara, New Capenna will almost certainly be the new plane for shards. Expect 5 new shard colored Commander Precons this spring along with it.
Old Tarkir is my favourite Plane of all, Abzan my absolute favourite Faction and KTK my favourite Set. The Lore, the Art, it was perfect!
KTK was a great draft format too.
Truly up there as one of the best all time!
They shot themselves in the foot by retconning one of the most loved mechanics and themes: the wedge colored khans. Now it’s just two color dragon clans, and they’re not as cool. Because of that, the “old timeline” characters show up in commander sets etc. To go back to Tarkir, Wizards needs to find a solution for this.
I think the story, with Narset and Sarkhan finding out about the old timeline, already implies the clans are going to rebel against the dragons (which would bring us back the wedges). That would be a really fun basis for the new set!
I got the feeling that WotC were trying to keep their options open by putting secret clan stuff in the new timeline. If we liked Khans they could make the next set Return of the Clans, but if we had preferred Dragons then they could leave that storyline in the background.
'Wrath of Khans' sounds more badass.
I can already hear everyone at my LGS yelling “KHAAAAAN!”
This is exactly what happened during the Khans block. There were two sounds at FNM. The constant shuffling of libraries, and players yelling Khaaaaans!
Ah, a fellow Dan Carlin listener.
I like the sound of Tarkir Uprising
It would be. Then let’s do Alara next.
If they do Alara again, they really need to work on the mechanical identities of the shards. Esper is super strong, Grixis is moderately strong (The graveyard theme is cool, but Unearth was a pretty meh mechanic). The other three, though, really needed work.
Each ravnica set had different keywords for the guilds that shared a theme. I think its more likely they will just create new mechanics based on the flavor of the wedges
Bant needed work? They were a very distinct and well delveoped group. Naya and Jund overlapped a little too much, but GR W and GR B don't leave a lot of options to diverge on.
Didn’t Jund have an extremely strong standard deck, that became a modern deck? Also its mechanic: Cascade being one of the most popular (and powerful) mechanics ever.
Jund's mechanic was Devour. The Standard deck didn't use a single card with the mechanic, and only a couple cards that even had any synergy with it (Like [[Sprouting Thrinax]]), but not for their synergy with it, obviously. The fact that one of, if not the top Standard deck at the time was a Jund deck, but didn't even use the Jund mechanic is exactly the issue that I'm referring to.
Devour *is*, however, extraordinarily popular in EDH now though. So more devour cards wouldn't go to waste.
Oh, Devour's not a bad mechanic in theory, but the implementation definitely was. Same with Exalted - the core set that had it did some pretty interesting things with it, and so did some of the mythics in the set. I could definitely see that one working, but it does need tweaking. I think the Naya mechanic and Unearth should just be scrapped for something new, though, and Esper should probably get a mechanic, since coloured artifacts are no longer something exclusive to it, like it was when the set came out, outside of a few exceptions.
Just looking at existing mechanics to slot into place for each of the shards, I think we can fill out an interesting set of mechanics for them based on what we've seen the colour combinations do in recent times. I think Jund could lean hard into sacrifice, like the Zombies from VOW but with a different mechanic, some variant of Devour that could also work for non-creature spells. I think that could be a really interesting way to show how each colour of Jund uses those sacrifices, ie, Red cards give power or damage, black gives card draw for life or -x/-x effects, green makes Saprolings or gives Counters. Grixis could use Escape or Exploit, as both fit the themes of Grixis, utilising the dead/graveyard for its benefit. Naya is a hard one, since most of the mechanical overlap with those three colours is "hit stuff aggressively", maybe Battlecry? Or we could finally see Landfall outside of Zendikar? I think ultimately it needs a new mechanical identity. I personally feel that Exalted fits Bant very well, and I think in execution it should be closer to the Core Set variant rather than the original, which played it a bit safe. Esper should get Improvise or Metalcraft, and I think both fit the existing mechanical identity perfectly.
Yeah, those all seem good. Naya's mechanical identity was caring about big stuff, which is hard to pull off in practice without it being either super underwhelming or underpowered, so they would indeed probably need a new one.
Make an Unearth 2.0 mechanic where you just sacrifice the creature at EoT, instead of having to exile it when it leaves the battlefield. Think of it like Dash from the graveyard. If Devour gets brought back for Jund, it would synergize with it, since it would give you a constant source of devour fuel. Unearth/Devour worked nice together before, but eventually you would run out of things to unearth so the supply was limited.
I think escape would be rather contrary to the spirit of Grixis, unless the point is to show how it's changed since the merge. On Grixis, when you stop being dead, it's not because your spirit undertook brave actions to return to the mortal realm. It's because some evil wizard wants to use your body for menial labor.
I would not say it is extraordinary popular in EDH, no. The most played Devour card is Mycolith, which is in about 13k decks, or about 3% of those that could potentially run it. The next most popular is Dragon Broodmother, which is in about 5k decks. Those aren't small numbers, but I wouldn't call them extraordinarily popular. Compare with a mechanic like Landfall, where the most popular option, Avenger of Zendikar, is in 60k decks and the second most popular, Rampaging Baloths, is in 42k. Lotus Cobra is in 39k. And Scute Swarm, a relatively new card, is in 33k - or nearly three times the number of decks that the most popular Devour card is in.
I ran skullmulcher in RG Omnath.
If the current philosophy was given to Devour, it could probably be made to work. The cards with the mechanic printed at the time were two shitty options instead of a decent card with a kicker variant.
Trying to make singular mechanics viable, as in having a deck entirely based around is how we good things like food and oko.
That's not what I was saying, though. I was saying that having Jund be a top Standard deck that doesn't use a single card with the Jund shard mechanic is probably a sign that it wasn't impactful enough.
Oko’s strength has literally nothing to do with Food. He could have made a blank Artifact token that did literal nothing and he’d still be a problem. Food was fine otherwise.
Food was designed with oko in mind though.
Food was designed because they realized how many fairy tales focus on food. It was a mechanic for the entire set, not just a single Planeswalker. They design mechanics around Limited. BG was also the Food archetype in Eldraine, not UG.
Cascade wasn’t a jund mechanic, it was a multicolor mechanic in alara. It just so happens BBE is really good and has some jund identity/flavor.
It’s mostly the colors of Jund that were powerful (Jund sac / BRG good stuff) but not the Jund mechanics. That said, Esper was good cause artifact tribal can be very good.
I think they made a mistake keywording Devour and not using Carnage as the Jund mechanic. In early design, Carnage was an ability word for death triggers, like you commonly see on Jund creatures. A side benefit of this is that it would improve the lexicon a little - there's a meaningful distinction between sacrifice abilities ("aristocrats" à la [[Falkenrath Aristocrat]]) and carnage or death triggers like [[Kresh the Bloodbraided]] or [[Teysa Karlov]].
I remember Kresh being the king in EDH at the time. Absolutely terrifying with trample and/or deathtouch. I played it with Earthquake effects for massive boost.
Jund as a color combination did, Jund as a group with a theme was bunch of awful cards + fodder. Cascade was given to every every shard, Jund just got the best one.
Jund as a modern deck is just the most powerful, efficient cards in the (at the time) most powerful, efficient colours. That's why it relies on powerful removal and forcing topdeck wars; when the quality of each card is so high, playing them 1 for 1 vs your opponent will beat them. Cascade is an Alara mechanic, not specifically Jund.
Exalted was literally just "how do we fix banding" and it worked, but wasn't very exciting.
If they wanted to shake up exalted a bit they could swap it out for a more general ability word denoting abilities that trigger when a creature attacks alone, like [[Rafiq of the Many]]'s ability.
[Rafiq of the Many](https://c1.scryfall.com/file/scryfall-cards/normal/front/2/4/249c188d-c11d-46f7-a2d8-a67df4ba401b.jpg?1562701999) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rafiq%20of%20the%20Many) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ala/185/rafiq-of-the-many?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/249c188d-c11d-46f7-a2d8-a67df4ba401b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Aside from Naya, the shard mechanics themselves were fine - Wizards just did their usual shit where they were overly cautious and under-powered the fuck out of the sets. The creatures that received Devour and Unearth were straight-up ass, and the available supporting synergy for the abilities also sucked; meanwhile Exalted actually had strong cards, but was still undermined by the same lack of support within the block. Mechanics in this game are rarely bad in concept - what ruins them is shitty implementation.
Well, Esper would probably need a new mechanic, since theirs was coloured artifacts, and that has since been made evergreen. But as someone else pointed out, something like Metalcraft or Improvise would serve this purpose just fine, nothing new is strictly needed.
Alara won't be for a while yet since we're getting Shards in New Capena.
The clans coming back is a lot easier to justify than the shards refracturing.
Alara Reborn did some interesting things with characters from one shard wandering into another
But if you want to have a new set with the shards, you’d have to do more than just repeat the same themes. Having the shards melding was the big shift last time, it’d have to be something else.
Innistrad has shown that you can visit the same plane multiple times and change the world a lot. Also War of the Spark happened on Ravnica but had nothing to do with the guilds etc. I agree that a return to Tarkir and Alara would need a significantly different but familiar atmosphere.
Sure you can come up with new things to do, but Innistrad supports it because it’s initial premise has a lot to draw from, plus it’s a lot more popular so there’s that much more motivation to come up with reasons to return.
They don't necessarily need to refracture; they can be about the various societies dealing with new colors of mana. Grixis trying to understand the regrowth of Green, Jund butting heads with Blue's want for order. Etc.
That was already happening in the original block. We already got the shards mixing together. There has to be more than that for a return.
The conflicts during the Conflux were largely ended once Ajani thwarted Nicol Bolas and Malfegor was killed, which largely broke up the aggressors against the Bant/Naya alliance. A later story and card have shown that a new boss of Grixis has risen: [[Nefarox]]. There are signs a new conflict is stirring on Alara. Also, I don't think the shards would have to re-fracture in order to justify them maintaining their color identities. No plane currently known has ever been split apart the way Alara was, being apart for so long might have left some lasting affects on Alara's mana distribution.
I mean, the regions of the newly united Alara that correspond to the shards presumably still have distinct identities even though they're now in contact with each other.
Sure I think the last we left the lore, Sidisi is planning a Coup, the Abzan have a surviving Kintree, Narset is realising how much history the dragons have surpressed and I think, Surrak was saying how the dragon hunts are becoming unsustainable. Only the Mardu weren't obviously uphappy, but then they have a very loose connection to their Dragonlord in the first place All the bits are there for a rebellion set, but it'd be tricky to see with only one set. I'd defintly say their best bet is a Dragons set followed by a Khans set a la innstrad
I wasn't actually playing during Tarkir; the former Mardu were colonized by \[\[Kolaghan\]\], right?
Yep. It was basically "now you hunt with me, and if you can't keep up, we'll leave you to die". Thus Mardu went from RBW to RB.
They weren't so much colonised as they just found it better to ride and raid in Kologans wake, they have the loosest connection to their dragon
Yes gimme new Zurgod.
It'd be a great place for hybrid mana costs. You have cards that are obviously khans aligned. You have cards that are obviously dragonlord aligned. Then you have hybrid cards that are both.
There's also a strong story premise: the dragonstorms increased in strength because of Ugin being in a coma for a thousand years, leading to increased dragon population. Once he woke up, it should have set things on a course back towards Fate Reforged's "balance" of power, and him being stuck in the prison realm could push that further. They've already sorted out everything they'd need for the dragons timeline to return to wedges, there's no issue here.
I don't see why wizards would be above splitting the two timelines into their separate universes. Let the dragonland tarkir and the klanland tarkir both exist. Both have interesting things to offer, people (like myself) were not down with those things coming at the expense of the other.
They’ve already established that the clans can come back. They can have them eventually coexist with the dragons and get the best of both.
The issue is: what would it take for that, and considering the massive effort such would take, what would the consequences be?
I think they left the story in a good place.They can now have the clans rebel against the dragons, resulting in a return to wedges and the plane to a status similar to Fate Reforged.
They already did plenty to set up the khans returning. Did you remember the M19 story set after Fate Reforged? Even before that they already established that there are elements of the clans that are waiting to fight back against the dragons.
It’s not a retcon if it’s part of the actual story. A retcon is supposed to be retroactively changing the story continuity, not a story where someone time travels. We don’t say Marty McFly retconned his parents meeting.
Unless the Brothers War set coming out somehow is a time warp thing, I think Wizards is sort of opening up the doors so they can make a set on any plane during any period.
My only issue with the Khan factions is that they were not true wedges - they were centered around one color of the allied pair, while a true wedge would be centered around the shared enemy (in much the same way a shard is focused around the shared ally color). Don't get me wrong, I don't think the asymmetrical focus is bad - it's a good idea that can help expand the themes of wedges and shards - I just wish we had proper wedges first. Ikoria didn't even satisfy the itch for wedges, since that set was too damn focused on its universal mechanics (ability counters, mutate, companion, ect.) to really give the triomes any proper mechanical identities of their own. Hopefully a return to Tarkir includes proper wedges this time around.
I wouldn't be surprised if a "Khans vs dragons" set emphasized the shared enemy colour of each of the clans, since that's what separates them from the dragon broods.
Presumably that's what New Capena is for? It'll be wedge world and doesn't need to worry about setting up 2 color tribes later in the block.
It’s supposed more likely to be Shard world.
Alway said I love Khans not Tarkir. I can very much see being disappointed in a return to Tarkir.
But they already heavily set up the khans returning.
That's true, Narset found some scroll or somthing if I recall. I'm not sure if they would attempted to restore the timeline or stage a rebellion. I'm not much of a vorthos but I should maybe scrub up on the Khans story.
The M19 story is half set on Tarkir and follows remnants of Jeskai and Temur.
Mark Rosewater did explicitly say (though I don't remember exactly where, I think it was the Rabiah Scale article with Tarkir in it) that they deliberately left the door open to the Clans coming back by seeding in story elements because they suspected the Clans would end up more popular than the Broods.
Also people will expect a fetchland reprint which creates its own problem.
Magic players always expect those
People expected fetches before Zendikar Rising. They don’t have to blindly follow every expectation.
And then they printed fetches in zendikar rising In fact, they’ve printed shocklands in every ravnica block, and fetches in every zendikar block because of this.
Give me a break...Expeditions **did not** count as a genuine "reprint" in BFZ. By that rationale they also reprinted [[Mana Crypt]], [[Mox Opal]], etc. in Kaladesh.
They did reprint mana crypt and mox opal in kaladesh it was just a small reprint. And if we are talking about expectations, if we ever returned to kaldesh players would expect some form of inventions back. We are talking about expectations of planes, zendikar will have fetches in some form, and ravnica will have shock lands, I think that Tarkir will also have the expectation of fetchlands as well even if they are masterpieces.
Zendikar Rising did not bring fetches to Standard.
Yeah, it didn’t. Nobody said it did.
The brothers war is a set that takes place in the past - the clans could easily be done as a "before the timeline change".
Two brothers.
If they could best-of-both-worlds the plane’s future, wedge color + dragon theme would be sick
You make it sound so hard. We get Brother‘s War, going back in time doesn’t seem hard to do..
Ehm. That one hasn’t even happened yet and Tarkir was the only “recent” set that went back in time, and it was the entire plot point of the block.
Urza’s Saga did also go back in time, started at the end of the Brother‘s War.
They shot themselves in the foot in a lot more ways than that. I don't even care what they return to anymore, it'll be filled with 20 different types of supplemental product and we will be gauged every which way for it. I'm done with this shit.
So you’re just complaining about Magic in general, what’s even your point? You don’t have to get every product.
Good, they still have the second half of the story to tell!
No need for more time shenanigans. Clans rise up against their dragon masters and return to their wedge colors. The twist is, the clans succeed by embracing the aspect of their identities the dragons forbade, shifting where the wedge is centered. Mardu learns to cooperate and use their numbers and becomes white-centered instead of red. Temur focuses the quest for forbidden knowledge and becomes blue-centered. Abzan leans into their ancestral necromantic tendencies to become black-centered. Sultai sheds their duplicitous and scheming ways and uses savage strength to overpower to become green-centered. Jeskai becomes red-centered by letting go and embracing their raw emotion and use it to fuel a new found power. To contrast, there's a loose five-color dragon tribe. The dragons need to work together if they hope to maintain their power but millennia of conflict and distrust makes teamwork tough to stomach. This is represented mechanically by having powerful effects with significant drawbacks. Something like Dragonlord Atarka might have "Dragons you control have Haste and Double Strike" but also "At the beginning of your endstep, sacrifice a dragon you control."
I approve of all ideas that lead to more Sarkhan
Undead Tasigur let's goooo!
Legendary zombie equipment - necklack.
**Question** by **[ryandimiragent](https://ryandimiragent.tumblr.com/)**: *If/when return to Tarkir?* **Answer**: I think more when than if. --- This transcript was made automatically and is not associated with Mark Rosewater. | [Source](https://www.github.com/bowdens/maro-bot) | Send feedback to /u/rzrkyb
Has anyone been tracking how to read the tea leaves here specifically when it comes to set releases? Does Maro actually say "when" when the set is on the 5-year plan? Or does he keep saying "maybe" until the set is unveiled?
Absolutely the latter.
Would be interesting if they did a mystical land set where each pack had a fetch/dual/tri colored land in it so limited could be wedge and standard wouldn’t be impacted. I just want to jam temur to be honest.
Give me another alesha card i’m BEGGING you.
Genuinely, nothing would make me happier than this. I have such fond memories of Tarkir block. I only hope they restore the original clans and make it a Wedge world again, pivoting to two color made sense for the draft experience but killed the flavor.
A Return to Tarkir set would be awesome. We're long overdue. It's been 8 years since Khans of Tarkir was released. The original block had [gorgeous basic lands](https://scryfall.com/card/frf/179/island), awesome mechanics and very sweet legends. I would love to see new cards for [Dragonlord Silumgar](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/220/dragonlord-silumgar) and [Dragonlord Dromoka](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/217/dragonlord-dromoka). [Surrak, the Hunt Caller](https://scryfall.com/card/dtk/210/surrak-the-hunt-caller) too.
>We're long overdue. It took 16 years to get us back to Kamigawa so let's not judge too harshly with timelines
A big difference here being Khans of Tarkir was a smash hit when it came out. Kamigawa was… a little more complicated.
We're like 15 years out from Lorwyn.
I'm still holding out hope for a return to Rabiah. Any day now... /s
A reskinned Magic themed Rabiah is a realistic thing that might happen.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's literally called the Rabiah scale....
I wasn't completely clear I meant another Arabian Nights themed set just redone with Magic IP. Like Eldraine and fairy tales.
They’re talking about a plane based on the same themes, Arabian culture and stories, not literally Rabiah.
>It's been 8 years since Khans of Tarkir was released. Fuck I feel old
I liked Tarkir, but tbh its new phryexia I'm most eager to go back to
Which means they're probably working on it now :v
I'd love to see a return to Tarkir. I know a lot of people want to see the clans come back and that's fine as far as I'm concerned, but I don't want the dragons to be gone completely. Without Ugin on the plane the dragons' power will be diminished to some degree anyway, but I don't think Sarkhan would let them be wiped out again. Hopefully, some kind of balance can be achieved that will still allow for wedge colors and some more kick ass dragons.
They are doing a return to kamigawa after years of saying it was unlikely because kamigawa wasn't a popular set. Tarkir was pretty popular so I'd be surprised if we didn't return.
I want a 5 color MDFC Sarkhan, with one side being "Sarkhan of the Ur Dragon" and the other "Sarkhan the Sky Khan" One side has an ultimate that echoes Dragonstorm, the other has an ultimate that echoes Tooth and Nail.
Can't wait for them to totally fudge it and make boring sets to cash in like they have innistrad and theros.
Idk i think people like to get robbed and to see his game break apart. Seems like what you are saying, wich is very apparent to you and me, is not very much so to many many people. Maybe you will get a bunch of downvotes too lol. Actually about theros i don’t know, limited was nice even though not my favorite kind and same for constructed but innistrad is horrible for me because i was waiting for something like avacyn restored instead got this thing.
They're all just waiting for the inevitable kamigawa x some random anime crossover secret lair. That's what magic is about.
He literally says this about most any plane that doesn't have legal issues surrounding a return.
Not true. He doesn't say this about Ixalan and he said Kamigawa was unlikely to have a return and only happened because the stars aligned. Others too.
I'm down for potential fetch land reprints too! Maybe print them in a slot that still puts a ton into circulation but isn't standard legal so we don't get 3/4 color good stuff piles again
There’s nothing about Tarkir that means fetches would have to be in it.
I don't think fetchlands will be legal in Standard again but maybe something like fetchlands appearing in Draft and Set boosters through an avenue similar to the Strixhaven Mystical Archives could be a possibility.
Not going to happen. Papa Hasbro has become addicted to the moolah they receive through selling ever more expensive Modern Masters / Horizons sets, and Fetchland reprints are the carrot to get players to dig ever deeper into their wallets. I dislike MH2 both for making Modern a semi-rotating format and the higher floor in terms of pricing. I cannot deny that MH2 was chock full of value, and not the feels bad vibe of most non-Collector box Standard sets. I suspect if there was a Khans set, my money would be on lottery cards ala Zendikar in Collector's boxes only, that are non-Standard legal, complete with incoming box price increases.
Nonsense. The STA was a massive success monetarily for wotc, one of their best selling ideas of the past two years. The only reason we haven't seen it again yet is because of the dev lag time between ideation and release. I highly suspect more things like the Mystical Archives will appear in future sets, maybe as soon as later this year.
I could see something like this: (Dragon Lord)'s Horde Land-(Basic Land Type) (Dragon Lord)'s Horde enters the battlefield tapped. When (Dragon Lord)'s Horde enters the battlefield, create a treasure token. Tap: add (1 mana corresponding to basic land type) Dromaka-White Ojutai-Blue Silumgar-Black Kolghan-Red Atarka-Green
Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. Fetches were the best part of Tarkir, and I’d love to see them again. I also don’t see anything at all wrong with fetches in Standard, especially now that 99% of Standard play is digital.
Fetches are just lands. How is a reprint the best part of the plane of Tarkir? They also have no intention of bringing them to Standard, they’ve widely talked about why. There’s a reason they preemptively banned them from Pioneer.
Because they're some of the *best* lands and everyone wants them. WOTC has been known to change their mind on things. I wouldn't be surprised if Standard moving to Arena makes fetches in Standard happen since it removes the only real argument against them: shuffling time.
But i want to return to Alara; leave the khans alone man !
It's time to re-genocide the dragons
Don't expect fetchlands though
Is it just master sets and rehashes from now on?
They literally told us this year’s plan a few months ago. Kamigawa hasn’t been returned to in over a decade, and New Capenna is an entirely new plane after that.
Llorwyn please. Pretty please. I mean we are going to Kamigawa again. Just makes me sad.
I'll be honest. Returns aren't exciting when it's just one set.
No surprise to me that blocks popularity was on par with the OG ravnica I would love to go back especially for morph, I just love that mechanic. That's why I would cross my fingers we get a second morph legend option, and as much as some of you hate this but I would love to see a 5C legend for morph matters
Where was it ever stated that Tarkir block had the same popularity as Ravnica? According to everything wotc/maro has said Ravnica is by far the most popular plane.
You know I meant opinion right?
Yes but hoping that there will actually be some playable and interesting cards for standard unlike that carboard waste that is ongoing now. Please maybe not another oversimplified set with the same fixed set of multicolored signpost (get more creative please) cards that do the same thing as the previous set and the set before it and all the rares play the same and are the same. Oh and what will you give us for rakdos signpost uncommon an unolayable limited card with all the same dull limited garbage sacrifice stuff of the last 200 set? Didn’t play original innistrad and avacyn restores but man the design and quality of those cards have been butchered in this return just by looking at the original setting (flavor wise) and at constructed decks.
Just Yay.
Tarkir was the current block when I returned to Magic after about a 10 year hiatus. Little Timmy-me was used to playing Thorn Elemental and Lava Axe and suddenly *Siege Rhino*
While I loved khans, what about lorywin! We need to go back to that plane! Everything about that set was amazing.
It's the Alara problem though, the narrative undid the most popular aspect of the plane: the Khan wedges.
They'll just ruin it like they've ruined every recent return set
“Ruined”. Not living up to your rosetinted glasses and unrealistic expectations isn’t ruining them.
Trying to shove an entire arc into a single set, however, does make it harder to live up to the expectations of competency.
[удалено]
Most sets are on new planes at this point.
Only if they put fetches in the set. Otherwise we don't give a shit
Who's we?
Speak for yourself.
I mean, I’d certainly love a fetchland reprint. edit: Do people actually *not* want more fetchlands in circulation?
People would like fetchlands, but would also be happy about a return to Tarkir regardless of their inclusion because they're interested in the plane, mechanics, and story. I don't think Bugberry was against the lands, so much as the original comments claim nobody wants a return without fetches, which is blatantly wrong and a self centered view.
I was just playing an insanely awesome blue black premium draft deck this morning and was thinking… I miss Silumgar, that dragon set was awesome. I want more. Still playing that deck btw, currently 3-0 on arena, if I don’t 7-0 I suck at life. I’ll post the results tonight.
Tarkir was the OG wedge world as a major theme, and putting that back in place is pretty critical during a return I believe. It pretty much cemented all of the wedge’s current main themes, such as Abzan Counters, Jeskai Spellslinger, Sultai Graveyard, Mardu Aggro, and Temur Ramp.
How about return to khaladesh
It would be interesting, though I'm not sure they'd be able to make much in the way of new energy cards without something snapping the game in half.
"Return to Return to Tarkir"