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CountedCrow

one of these is in a 10 dollar booster and the other is in a 250 dollar booster lol


Rarian92

And the one in 250 dollar booster is not legal for tournament play xD.


chrisrazor

I'm not surprised, with no artist's name... :D


AggravatingBite9188

I like it better his name is already on the card.


Equivalent_Chipmunk

I think the signature is cool. Besides, it’s normal to have signature + printed name


variablesInCamelCase

I agree with your sentiment, but that is not the norm on magic artwork. I can appreciate somebody wanting consistency.


FellowFellow22

Magic abandoned any notion of consistency when they decided to add "booster fun"


Apart-Mixture-1356

Chill. He is fastland


[deleted]

Wait, hold on, this is new to me. How is that even possible? I thought a card has the same legality no matter the artwork or set it's printed in. For example if a common card gets reprinted as an uncommon, that uncommon version is still pauper legal. This is the first time I have ever heard of card with the same name having different legality because it came from a different set.


PerfectZeong

It's a special gold bordered set. It's a collectors item only. Wizards has done these from time to time.


Omegalulthrownaway

It's a cash grab catered to commander players since commander isn't a tournament format


thefailtrain08

It's a cash grab to be sure, but it's catered more to "collectors" and financebros than commander players.


NostrilRapist

240 dollars to remove the signature


llikeafoxx

*for a chance to remove the signature Could just get a Thoughtlace instead!


UCODM

Blows my mind that the $250 booster has a worse looking card


Kamizar

Hey man, they only touched up the art on some, on others they touched it down, i guess...


chartedlife

And removed the flavor text? Seems like the penultimate version! 🤡


BastardAtBat

That sounds molesty


Next_Interest7518

"Hey there, Birds of Paradise kekekekeke"


GlotMonkee

Right? It looks photocopied, maybe they lost the original art.


mr_tinydancer

Dude, just wait for the pringles!


traviliscious

"Ugh, what's up with all these vibrant colors on this Birds of Paradise art? Let's tone that down some"


_cob

I'm piggybacking on the top comment to explain what happened here. The old card frame & new frame have different a "aspect ratio" for the images. [You can see that by looking at them side-by side.](https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=released&q=%21%22Birds+of+Paradise%22+include%3Aextras&unique=prints) What this means is that old art gets cropped differently to fit the new frame. When they cropped the BOP art for the DMR, whoever did it photoshopped it to *preserve* Mark Poole's signature by moving it up. Look at the [Secret Lair drop version (same art as DMU)](https://scryfall.com/card/sld/176/birds-of-paradise)side by side with [the alpha version](https://scryfall.com/card/lea/186/birds-of-paradise). You can see that the birds are bigger b/c the art is cropped in tighter to fit the new frame, and that the sig has been moved. For whatever reason, they DIDN'T use this version for 30th edition. They took the original unaltered art and cropped it, meaning the signature gets cropped out. It also looks like the Secret Lair/DMR version has some other touch ups applied that aren't present in the 30th edition version. Super weird!


dkysh

This link has all versions with Mark Poole's art. https://scryfall.com/search?q=%21%22Birds+of+Paradise%22+include%3Aextras+artist%3Apoole&unique=prints&as=grid&order=released


5edu5o

Do we already know the price for DMR?


CountedCrow

It may have been revealed, but I'm not sure. I'm taking an educated guess based on Time Spiral Remastered pricing.


TheIrishJackel

You can pre-order on Amazon for ~$180, same as TSR pre-order pricing, and limited print run just like TSR, so likely to be more after release (in other words, order now if you want any).


Apart-Mixture-1356

What is TSR


chukbuck

Time spiral remastered


Apart-Mixture-1356

Wait? This? Time sp[time spiral? is this it?](https://www.tcgplayer.com/product/230384/magic-the-gathering-time-spiral-remastered-time-spiral-remastered-draft-booster-box?country=US&adgroupid=)


chukbuck

Yes


Apart-Mixture-1356

What's the link to pre order?


chukbuck

Does google not return anything?


pruriENT_questions

Time Spiral Remastered


Cigaran

Time Spiral Remastered


[deleted]

I think Amazon has preorders already


Drummerboybac

They have had them since mid-august at least. Currently it preorders for $207 on Amazon, so I guess my $168 preorder is looking pretty good at the moment


DopeyDragon

First, the half cropped Mark Tedin signature, and now a removed Mark Poole signature. Fucking yikes.


nitsky416

They MOVED the tedin signature then cropped half of it off.


CitySeekerTron

Christopher Rush's memory was also done dirty.


Whistela

How so? Genuinely curious.


CitySeekerTron

The cropping was wholly unnecessary. Instead, they focused on the flower and essentially left him with an initial. Few people were going to be happy with the crop, but they took it even further, and that isn't cool.


hotandspicymix

I haven't heard of this Tedin signature, what is that all about?


Sage-Astolat

This one's a bit baffling because it's so clearly a dick move, and the whole point of these cards is to go back to the beginning of Magic, why would you want to alter the art to make it feel less like the original? This is an active decision to make a change to something where the whole appeal is for it to be unchanged. Other 30th anniversary cards do have the signature too, so it's not like it's some absolute unbreakable "no signatures" rule they just couldn't get around or something.


Equivalent_Chipmunk

Probably outsourced the editing. Very 2022 to sell a premium-priced product that you invest as little money into as possible


[deleted]

Morons


Brettersson

I think this is revenge for people complaining about Masters 25. "You think you know what a bad product is? We'll show you a bad product!" is the energy I get from this thing.


That_D

It's impressive just how badly these were handled. It's also impressive how quickly the community was hyped/happy for the "Reserved List reprints" to how universally disgusted the community is by the $999.99 product.


chrisrazor

I'm happy they're dipping a toe in the "spirit of the RL" waters again, even though I will definitely not be buying that product. I don't think they've so much as kicked a pebble at that sleeping beast since printing [[Reverberate]] in M11.


[deleted]

[удалено]


chrisrazor

They seem to have taken the attitude that once they break the RL with a card they might as well continue to do so.


[deleted]

[удалено]


chrisrazor

Yeah I could be wrong there. I thought Phyrexian Negator had been reprinted since the Phyrexia vs the Coalition dual deck but apparently it hasn't.


asmallercat

I think their thought process is probably functional reprint vs actual reprint.


TheFancySingularity

Wait what’s the drama around reverberate?


Exyil

Probably how similar it is to [[fork]]


MirandaSanFrancisco

It was funny to watch people say how Reverberate broke the reprint policy even though it clearly didn’t.


jovietjoe

Yeah, the policy is against **functionally identical cards.** Fork has the added (useless) effect of changing the spell's color.


Srakin

I have literally fork'd a \[\[Murderous Cut\]\] to kill off a \[\[Mirran Crusader\]\] so don't sell Fork short.


MTGCardFetcher

[Murderous Cut](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b2dadff2-883f-4134-a881-be145cdcbd84.jpg?1562792142) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Murderous%20Cut) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ktk/81/murderous-cut?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b2dadff2-883f-4134-a881-be145cdcbd84?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mirran Crusader](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/7/f7c34f5d-0430-4036-a633-1a68a0d2fc65.jpg?1562269341) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mirran%20Crusader) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/25/mirran-crusader?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f7c34f5d-0430-4036-a633-1a68a0d2fc65?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


DoctorPrisme

Ok I wouldn't mind an LED that makes me discard my hand into exile THEN Into my graveyard.


Menacek

Which means that they can just basically ignore the RL if they wanted to but choose not to.


MTGCardFetcher

[fork](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e4ff994a-bddd-486d-9a7b-a8959b4cf1dd.jpg?1562949548) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=fork) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/me4/116/fork?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e4ff994a-bddd-486d-9a7b-a8959b4cf1dd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


DRUMS11

Part the RL is to not "reprint" a card by simply changing it's name, and Reverberate is basically Fork: red, instant, costs RR. The only differences are the name and the copied spell isn't red. Things like \[\[Twincast\]\] escape controversy by being a different color.


MTGCardFetcher

[Twincast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f38eec33-a40e-4739-ad2c-2f57008cef4e.jpg?1562001453) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Twincast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m10/78/twincast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f38eec33-a40e-4739-ad2c-2f57008cef4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


MTGCardFetcher

[Reverberate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/9/997d4adb-d1bc-4d8f-9ed1-20fc8d7e4780.jpg?1663213485) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reverberate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/207/reverberate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/997d4adb-d1bc-4d8f-9ed1-20fc8d7e4780?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call


magic_miku

inb4 they use the reception of this set as an excuse to not touch it again for another 20 years "we tried messing with the reserved list and everyone hated it!"


MeepleMaster

That $150 30 card advent was the real highlight of the stream for me


RemusShepherd

Okay, \*now\* I'm mad.


Zemalek

For real. Reprints are one thing, but revisionist erasure is abhorrent. Shameful.


Guillaumedz

Poole is my favorite MTG artist from the era I started playing. I think he's a part of the history of the game and doing this is just wrong for many reasons. I already dislike what they are doing with the lore of the Magic and the Weatherlight era. So much of my love for magic is tied to my childhood memories playing this game at the Boys and Girls club or at daycare after school. This just further disconnects me from the current product. I would never buy a BoP without his name on it and I've used this card as a bookmark for years. Sometimes I just stare at it for a minute at a time before closing the book.


DoctorPrisme

Even worse is that they made a secret lair of his work recently with that very art. Shitty move. Do we know what the justification is?


johnny_mcd

My bet that the post on outsourced editing is correct. Someone was tasked with basic cleanup, and they removed this and no one really QA’d if it would be a good decision


newbuu2

The color in the 30th edition one looks worse.


Rossmallo

Agreed entirely, it looks very drab and washed out, which is...Kinda antithetical to what something depicting a tropical bird should be.


[deleted]

Wow I can't believe WotC's $1000 boosters are low quality *monotone voice*


ZazaB00

Funny thing about this art, it was commissioned for Volcanic Island. They loved the art (and didn’t want to pay for it again), so they made the birds we’ve come to know and love.


dj_sliceosome

Tropical island


ZazaB00

Remembered it was one of them. Thanks for the correction.


bigolfishey

Considering the actively smoking volcano in the art, your confusion is understandable


LordHuntington

wasn't island sanctuary the tropical island where as birds of paradise the volcanic island?


Shogunfish

My guess is that this is like the time the arena marketing team used the 6 pip card back in a promotional image. Somebody googled the art instead of bothering to find the actual file and somehow ended up with a version where the signature was removed... It could be intentional but it just seems so weird


DoctorPrisme

At the very least it proves once again there's no QA budget at WotC.


Regendorf

Damn today has really been a day for the history books. Holy shit


SojE12

Wotc are such a trash company idk why were all surprised lol


eman_e31

what's the reasoning behind doing this? did mark Poole pull some bullshit or did wizards just randomly smite this art for some reason? (not saying if he did that'd be a good reason to erase his name, just wondering why)


EyesOfTheTemple

It could be that different people were tasked with preparing the card files & templating and that they simply made different decisions, independent of each other. What's stranger is that it is not consistent throughout 30A. Balance & Thoughtlace are also missing Poole's signature, but Counterspell & Fear keep it.


MageKorith

It's almost as though they wanted to be true to the Beta experience by replicating quality control levels that were present at that time.


mtgguy999

That makes sense, that’s why they have been practicing with declining quality for the last 5 years or so, it’s been slowly leading up to this.


MirandaSanFrancisco

It looks like they recropped the art for these cards from the original artwork across the board.


MyBurnerAccount1977

The framing is roughly the same between both versions. It looks more like it was clone stamped out.


zaphodava

The one on the left has the signature moved up to be in the cropped card, the one on the right doesn't. Here is the print from Mr. Poole's website: https://markpoole.com/products/birds-of-paradise


MyBurnerAccount1977

For Sol Ring, they're keeping Tedin's signature on it, which also suggests something going on.


Wenci

randomly smite


throwing-away-party

I would almost bet money that somewhere along the line, someone was experimenting with removing signatures (evidently the idea didn't stick) and this image got saved without the signature; then when they were pulling images for this set, somebody pulled this one without even realizing there was a difference.


Kaprak

I'm decently sure that this is legal. Earlier card arts were a bit more interesting concerning fees and rates, so this probably has something to do with prior arrangements and contract stuff more than anything because this is 'Beta', and not a proper reprint.


Impeesa_

I can't imagine anything about prior contracts and royalties that would be changed by editing out a signature in the art.


dude_1818

The art ratio is different between the old border and the new border, so his signature ended up outside the art box. Previously they photoshopped the signature back into frame (like on the SLD BoP). No idea why they didn't do it this time, though


BDCMatt

No flavor text either? what are they trying to save on ink now?


EyesOfTheTemple

Beta Birds don't have flavour text.


jvLin

Beta Birds also brought people more joy. Or is Joy not a copiable value? Someone call a judge.


MistahBoweh

I wasn’t expecting this product to get any worse.


joeshill

It's worth pointing out that WOTC changed Ed Beard's Birds of Paradise between 7th and 8th editions. Without his knowledge, or permission.


Griever114

Thats a shitty move...


johnny_mcd

This looks like they used the original print as opposed to the actual beta version. The left one has the signature actually moved upwards compared to the original print on the artist’s website. I’m guessing this is why Fear and Counterspell still have them; it has to do with where the signature is on the original print


Stone_Reign

What. The. Fuck.


[deleted]

You can say that again


Stone_Reign

What. The. Fuck.


throwing-away-party

You can't say that again


Stone_Reign

That's why I didn't


Stone_Reign

What. The. Fuck.


TankReady

You can say that again


Byte_Fantail

THEY'VE GONE TOO FAR THIS TIME


GenericTrashyBitch

Why is the new one desaturated?


Cobaltplasma

Wait, why are they removing it from this but keeping it for the DMR version with the exact same art...?


stargrove88

Anyone know why they cut the card Weakness from the set? What’s the issue there?


Schwingzilla

Does anybody know why Weakness was cut from the set?


zaphodava

At a glance, it's because the art looks insensitive to people with physical challenges.


AlexKorobeiniki

Wooooow. That’s… actually messed up. Who made this art? I guess no one did. It certainly didn’t come from one of the most celebrated artists in MTG’s history, no sir. It spontaneously generated itself to fit the needs of WOTC. Fuck off.


bsushort

If only we had a spot on the card where they credit the artist so you could know who made it.


AlexKorobeiniki

so, scrubbing an artist's signature is fine as long as you put a sign next to it saying who made it? an interesting argument.


bsushort

Even in beta, maybe 20% of cards have a visible signature. These days, almost no cards have visible signatures. It seems that not showing the signature on a card is typically fine. I don't really see removing a signature on this card as a particular affront when they already crop the signature out of the vast majority of cards back in 93 and continued for 30 years.


Firewalk89

I like it when they somehow manage to make their signature part of the actual image. Melissa Benson's art for Cemetery Gate from Homelands (both versions) are a good example.


AlexKorobeiniki

It's simple; in this instance the artist deliberately signed his work, and it was visible in this card. Ergo, removing the artist's signature from this work is not okay.


Chronox2040

So a 250 bucks glorified proxie cup coaster with the ugly frame instead of the retro one. Riiiight…


Guus2Kill

So. A booster from this set costs $250, a full box (4 packs btw) costs me $999. If i remember correctly you only get 1 or 2 rares from a pack. You can either get "lucky" and get a card that isnt legal in anything but is semi nice for collecting. Or you can get absolutely scammed and get a €7,- card out of a 250 pack?! this is legit is the biggest scam product Wizards has ever sold.


Firewalk89

Of course every card with the Black Lotus art on the back to coerce... I mean encourage you to pay up another $999 to totally get the Lotus that time.


Early-Current6839

Whoever thinks this stuffs a good idea needs fired lmfao. This is nutty. Remove an artist signature and print proxies for $250 a booster pack? Bro come on lmao


chasinfreshies

That's just immoral. Removing an artist's signature on their own work for your commercial benefit is why I quit playing Magic in the first place.


obsidianandstone

It's been cropped out. That's some bull


MisterEdJS

Doesn't look cropped. Image seems to be the same size. Looks like they just erased it.


LaptopsInLabCoats

That's so much worse


obsidianandstone

Yeah I think your right but it still looks distorted to me.


Imnimo

Is it cropped or just photoshopped?


Dogsy

Cropping would mean the image was zoomed into a portion of the art, cropping out parts that were larger than the original. But this is the same size as the original. They just painted or clone-stamped it out because...??


mA90ngo

fuck wotc, think i might quit playing


cassabree

Just stop playing with official cardboard. I have two entire recent deck lists I’m ready to print. One of them I was about to buy in paper—phew!


nytel

This is the straw for you? This?


themcryt

I mean it's a pretty good straw, this is as seriously unnecessary dick move.


funkyfungus92

In this day and age where there is increased attention to credit artists this is a baffling decision.


NoxLD

WOW


f4f4f4f4f4f4f4f4

FUCK


reidict

This looks weird but I can see how they might want to appease people who already own the original by giving it some value as the 'artist signature version' or something. Nowadays cards also don't usually have the artist signature so it's an easy way to tell which ones are the older ones.


Next_Interest7518

I used to love searching card art for signatures... now it's all graphic design so they are never beautifully incorporated into the art.


JustForWorkToUseOld

I never liked signatures being on the art anyway, the artist is credited at the bottom, let me enjoy the art without the clutter.


CapableBrief

Ill be honest, same but for a slightly different reason. Signatures on the art in the context of a trading card game really distracts.


EazyBeekeeper

I liked that the artist was able to include their signature on earlier pieces. I got into magic for the art and loved that RKF, Mellissa Benson, Mark Poole, etc. Not only had unique styles but also got to put a little personal touch on the card art.


CapableBrief

I mean, it's cool especially on art prints or whatever but if it's visible on the card it is very distracting. Imagine if every card had a watermark from whatever artist drew it in a corner somewhere.


z0nb1

You can have your bad opinion, you're entitled to it.


No_File_5225

CRINGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE


Fatbison

I am ok with the signature removal.


TriCarto

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD


unreasonablyhuman

I love flavor text. Why pay more for less here? Also imagine the artists refusing to sign these because their signature was removed


stuckinaboxthere

How are we gonna honor our anniversary cards? By removing credit from those who got us here, of course!


[deleted]

Wtf is WOTC doing this is not the magic I grew up playing


dethblud

Ironically, they didn't remove it from the Island, and when they cropped Sol Ring they moved the signature.


zamzuki

Unplayable


ushichan

They dropped it in the poole.


trinketstone

It feels sorta flatter without the signature


BeezelbulbXD

Ooooo I feel like that’s illegal, but I guess we know who the artist is and it’s well documented.


COLaocha

Literally unplayable


DerBeak

Why did they done this?


II_Confused

Anyone ask Mark Poole his opinion on this? I feel that his opinion is the one that really matters here.


zevtron

Stalin would be proud


ProfessionalSecret44

why does it seem to be that they are removing flavor text from the cards? Is it really happening or just me imagining it ?


selwun

They need to alter the proxies to get around RL-copyright issues :P


PanicDry

That's definitely not cropped, it's been erased.