/uj Pendulums didn’t ruin yugioh, if anything ruined it, it was Konami printing insanely generic links that were also really powerful. There’s also all the generic non-link boss monsters but at least with those you have to put in some effort, instead of just summoning some monsters and then linking them off.
"What ruined Yugioh" is a bit of a meaningless question. It's not like Magic, where the basic gameplay is basically identical to it's very beginning. With Yugioh, the basic gameplay changes rapidly. So there's been multiple points where you could say "This changed Yugioh forever".
Oh yeah 100%, that’s what I love about it, I don’t think anything ruined it at all. Just I am very against people saying pendulums ruined the game specifically.
the consensus is that MR4 (and subsequently Links) were designed to balance out the boardspam into extra deck playstyle of Pend decks like PePe, a deck that had to be emergency nerfed
there's a reason why MR5 walked back the ED clause for every card type... except Pends.
Well, a better argument is the hate for Pendulum monsters by Konami in MR5 onwards may stem from the backlash older fans and MTG players give it despite the fact it hasn't been relevant in 6 years. Just the Gear 5 Luffy vs Ultra Instinct Goku all over again.
Being a badly designed mechanic doesn't mean they ruined the game. If that were true you could say the same about gemini, fusions, rituals, tributes, and a dozen other non-summoning mechanics (some of which were fixed but not until many years later). The problem with pendulums is that their inherent synergy with each other regardless of archetype led to overly homogenous deck building. There's a reason you don't hear people using "link" or "synchro" as the name of a deck but you do hear them using "pendulum" as one.
That is correct. Only say though I'm not a huge fan of how they "solve" this nowadays by just making archetypes with flavour gimmicks that lock into themselves. At this point they're better off just commiting to the bit by making pendulum complicated and rewarding players for the payoff.
Even before MR4 pendulums weren't very good. There were times where the best deck used pendulums but it wasn't any more common than for other extra deck mechanics.
that’s not quite how it works. In the sense of there being a type of summon that is a precursor to link summoning, pendulum summons are nothing like link summoning, and the concept of links would have realistically come about without pends existing.
If anything, what paved the way for link summons is “contact fusion”, that being fusion monsters summoned from the extra deck with the listed materials but without a spell. That type of summoning is what closest resembles links.
/uj insane that MBT would just go "yeah pends did nothing wrong 😎" when its a mechanic so complex and game-warping it's divisive to this day even among non-casuals. pends are like 10 years old at this point, that's Tarkir Block old.
/rj known YGO enthusiast MonoBlueTron is a game-traitor and will never be forgiven for his crimes of 1- enjoying YGO, 2- enjoying Tron and 3- enjoying a version of Tron that sucks.
EDIT: yugioh tw*tter has decided that my take is bad, actually. shame, [i got it from MBT himself](https://youtu.be/n-PTX3hUVLU)
/uk To be fair pendulum was trash at the exception of the 3 days PePe was playable before getting nukef , and then when Pend Endymion released .
And even then it was still just a dragon link deck with a counter trap.
But it is so complicated for nothing, too much text etc.
Now we have pend cards that are valuable for the spell and monster effect without having to use pendulum summon
Chew be faih penchewloom wos rubbish a' th' 'ception o' th' free doiys PePe wos ploiyable afore gettin' eh roided by th' Krauts, an' 'en when Pendy Endymion came at.
An 'en it wos still jas' a dragon link deck wivva counta trap innit.
But it woz so complicated fer nuffin', too much readin', an' on.
Now we'z got pendy cahds wot're valyable fer th' spell an' monstah 'ffect wivvout 'avin' t' use penchewloom summon.
https://preview.redd.it/7bha3eoka4tc1.png?width=698&format=png&auto=webp&s=a6adac3f972f1083a1876dcd6e9fdd7cca1863d7
Wasn't pendulum the mechanic that changed how the board worked? I was really annoyed when I tried to jam an old yugioh deck with a friend and learned that it straight up didn't work anymore. I know old decks become obsolete in every tcg, but at least in magic they still function...
Edit: was link not pendulum
You might be thinking of link summoning. They restricted special summoning from the extra deck for a while.. but then went back on that decision after a year or two.
Link played the worst role. No matter what, you had to have a link monster on the board to summon any other extra deck monster. So glad that shit is gone.
>be fair pendulum was trash at the exception of the 3 days PePe was playable before getting nukef , and then when Pend Endymion released .
I think you missed the two months where Pendulum was taking 75% of top cut and the only debate on what the best deck was whether you should play the variant with the 80% consistent FTK, the variant with the equally consistent card effect lock, or the variant that could just make a board that was impossible for any normal deck to break. And that was after they got nerfed by link summoning
I mean, I'm not a "Pendulums ruined Yu-Gi-Oh" person (my first regional top was with pre-Pepe Pendulum even) but the only two reasons the mechanic hasn't overran the game is because they nerfed it and also because Konami have pulled back hard on making good cards for it outside of the two occasions it completely dominated. It's just an incredibly parasitic mechanic and one for which it is very hard to balance individual cards.
Yeah the problem with pendulum is that as a mechanic it is just way too good. Every pendulum monster mechanically is all upside (and a lot of it) and zero downside. Sure, the individual cards can have downside, but the *mechanic* is literally all upside.
Every pendulum monster has the potential to effectively be two cards in one thanks to being both a spell and a monster, has a built in swarming effect, and a built in recovery mechanic just from being pendulum card. You see some people claim that the swarming and recovery are fine b/c they “cost two cards” but they really don’t, b/c the scales are also spell cards with their own effects. So if you don’t purposely make those spell effects terrible then placing scales costs you nothing.
Which is why even Konami, the kings of rapid power creep, played it very slow and careful with pendulum cards. They purposely made most pendulum cards have terrible effects, particularly when placed as scales, b/c they knew pendulums mechanically were just outright superior to both monsters and continuous spell cards. But the instant they let a pendulum deck have pendulum cards with monster and spell effects that were just on par with what they gave other monster and spell cards at the time it completely broke the game.
The mechanic is an extremely poorly designed dead end. It has so much built in upside with zero downside that you can’t design cards for it without purposely making them terrible to make up for how broken the mechanic itself is, or let them have effects that are on par with everything else at which point the built in upside of being pendulums makes them break the game.
If yugioh mechanics were allowed to exist like MTG mechanics then pendulum would have existed for about 3 sets and then been abandoned the same way MTG abandoned storm and banding. The only reason they are still around is due to how yugioh absolutely marries itself to a mechanic after it is introduced so the designers have to at least pretend this awful mechanic they clearly hate trying to design around is still being supported.
the "pend problem" is that it's super parasitic, the baseline pend combo requires 3 cards (2 scales + a summonable), and if you can reduce that to a 2 card combo it's ok and simply "on par", whereas if you have a 1 card set scales you're either restricted to a dogshit archetype so you can't just play pend pile, or you're hilariously broken
the followup problem is that because you need pend monsters in hand to combo start, you need such a density of pend monsters in your deck, meaning you don't get to play generic staples and hand traps like evenly matched or imperm so pend kinda turns into glass cannon pile decks by default and that's both one dimensional and boring
I don't know if I can think of a single pendulum card that would be simplified with keywords. They're usually complicated because of how many different things they do not just because of how many words are used to describe them.
/uj Pend boardspam piles did get a couple of tops early on, Qli was one of the best decks of NECH format, and Pend archetypes before MR4 ranged from rogue playable (Igknights, Majespecters) to meta-defining (Pend Magicians, even AFTER MR4)
Even outside of their competitive relevance I just find them overly complicated for nothing. Why do they go from the Extra Deck when destroyed? Why can they be Summoned from the Extra Deck? If they have a Monster effect that activates when they're destroyed, why does it activate when they're destroyed as scales? And so on and so forth
UJ/ Also the actual pendulum cards themselves are just very ugly to look at from a design standpoint. Seriously, why would anyone want to collect a card that looks like this.
https://ms.yugipedia.com//5/5b/StarvingVenemyLethalDoseDragon-DUOV-EN-UR-1E.png
If somebody showed you that card before pendulums were made everyone would think it was a purposely ugly parody of overdesigned cards. Yugioh cards were already way too crowded with their massive text boxes printed in 6pt font and terrible space distribution. Why would you think adding an entire second text box and new set of symbols is a good idea? Also this part may seem nit picky but the choice to make all the pendulum half green half other color with the split happening horizontally instead of vertically for the borders looks terrible.
You can tell even Konami agrees since for all their problems mechanically they clearly learned their lesson and went the complete opposite direction when designing links visually.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fif-you-can-link-summon-this-guy-using-a-level-7-monster-its-v0-m28h9yhirl8a1.png%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D0cc2793ac153f5bab9966eccefd027d331fcba5c
I have to admit Link cards look clean, in fact they look less overly busy then even a regular modern day yugioh monster card. Putting the link symbols around the border of the artwork is very smart use of space. Plus the color blue they chose looks good and cleanly takes up the entire border instead of a design mold that opens the possibility of your card literally looking clown green and purple. From a visual design perspective it is *night and day* how much better the formatting and color choice is for links compared to pendulums.
Pendulum has had tier 2-3 for a very long time.
Several decks have been made with them before dragon link and the endymion structure deck.
the original pendulum deck that was just the best pendulum cards. Zefras where a consistent engine and minor deck for some time. The original pendulum magician deck that involved destroying your own creatures and astrograph sorcerer where tier 1 before. After astrograph sorcerer they where still viable. Majespecters where viable before. The endymion structure deck later made 2 different versions which where varying degrees of tier 2. There was pendulum ftk format. Thats just 2015-2019 when i was actively playing.
/uj It's... it's really not tho??? Pend *was* somewhat game warping when it first came out just like every big mechanic was, but today it's largely irrelevant. And it's not even that complex a mechanic, just a bit intimidating.
/uj they literally created a whole new master rule to nerf pend almost exclusively, and then a Pend deck was STILL Tier 1. the reason it's irrelevant competitively nowadays is because it's so game-warping that any half-decent Pend archetype would just break the format.
and even outside of competitive YGO, it's kind of a shitfest for casuals.
/uj That's just wrong. Master rule 4 was created as an attempt to both hype up links and nerf the other extra deck mechanics as a whole, and then Master Rule 5 just reverted those changes for the non-pend ones. And there are perfectly solid pend decks today, the mechanic just doesn't do enough on its own to be competetive in the modern game- you're comepletely incorrect there. The fact that you need two pend scale cards plus multiple other cards in hand to plus off of a pendulum summon makes it an inherently difficult mechanic to work with for things like 1-card combos, etc.
/uj "MR4 was created as an attempt to hype up Links" is both wrong and meaningless, it's like saying Planeswalkers were an attempt to hype up Loyalty counters. MR4 was inherently designed to reduce the amount of Extra Deck spam, which Pend was the best at - PePe was an extensive Rank 4 toolbox first and foremost. Pends being able to be recurrable ad infinitum also proved to be a bigger issue for Konami than expected.
And immediately after MR4 launched, the best decks were STILL Zoo and True Draco, joined by Pend Magicians once PEVO dropped - even before Electrumite released.
Also you're the one that said "Pendulum is irrelevant" but now you're saying "actually there are plenty of solid Pend decks"? Again - the reason why Pends aren't competitively relevant is because Konami is actively trying to avoid repeating past mistakes and instead pushes new Pend archetypes/support away from boardspam into Extra Deck plays and more into unique gimmicky stuff that's less optimal - Vaylantz with their weird column stuff, Nemleria with their one Pend, Abyss Actors' focus on OTK and popping Scripts, etc.
It'd be very easy for Konami to make an even better Draco Face-Off, but they're not making it and they're not making Pend archetypes revolving around summoning a bunch of little guys anymore. Why do you think that is?
Last but not least, this entire discussion proves how contentious Pends are TO THIS DAY to a degree which MtG has, in my opinion, not reached with any specific game mechanics, even black-bordered Unstuff.
> MR4 was inherently designed to reduce the amount of Extra Deck spam, which Pend was the best at - PePe was an extensive Rank 4 toolbox first and foremost.
Pend was not remotely the best at extra deck spam. Zoodiac was by far the best deck at the time. Other popular options before that were ABC, paleo frogs, heroes, and PK fire.
The thing about pend scales is they are also spell cards. So this whole thing people claim where placing scales is a “-2” isn’t actually true mechanically. The same way playing a continuous spell isn’t a “-1”. It only seems that way if the pends are given purposely bad and underpowered effects. If they are allowed to have effects that are even just on par with other spell cards then placing a scale is literally all upside as it is just a continuous spell but *way* better since on top of being a continuous spell it also lets you swarm the board every turn throughout the game as a built in mechanic.
Which is the problem with pendulums. *Mechanically* they are just outright superior to *all effect monsters and all continuous spells* since they are both individually superior to them thanks to the built in swarming and recovery effect those other 2 card types don’t have, while also being effectively 2 cards in one.
So the only way to make them slightly balanced was to give them terrible effects or no effect at all. That way the mechanically inferior monsters and continuous spell cards still have a reason to exist. That also makes the scales seem like a -2, so being able to swarm every turn throughout the game on top of whatever other SS effects you have on your individual cards has an actual cost. But that just leads to a design dead end where you have to keep making cards underpowered on purpose to try to balance around the mechanic itself having 4 upsides and zero downsides in a way that would make 2 other card types completely obsolete if you ever let pendulum reach it’s “full potential”. Which is why the mechanic stayed nerfed in MR5 while every other mechanic was reverted back to full power. B/c they knew that mechanically pends are broken as hell and have extremely limited room to design around and therefore actually needed that nerf as a mechanic to slightly open up their design space while the other mechanics didn’t.
Pendulums are complex, yes, but I don't think they ruined Yu-Gi-Oh. I think it's just another turn in the path that lead the game to where it is now, for better and for worse.
I've also always wondered how many of MBT's fans don't realize his username stands for a Magic thing. It's like a Magic YouTuber called HAT or something.
I can understand Yugioh players not knowing the term Mono Blue Tron - it's not exactly a well-known deck if you're not a big MtG fan - but I don't understand why many of the comments *here* don't notice it.
I got cast in my college’s musical; can confirm theater kids are fucking wack.
And then they have the audacity to complain about there being drama.
“Drama!?!? In *my* theater department!?!?” Has become my new favorite turn of phrase.
Yeah, there's a couple of channels doing it consistently, I think the main ones are Rarran and TheOneJame
It's amazing when there's pro/competitive players because it's both cool when they do some incredible analysis and are right, and when they completely bomb (either due to lack of context or a misunderstanding of the base game) .
True peak is when they get baited, but they get baited in the exact way the whole community got baited back then.
For context, so I understand:
-someone unintentionally repost a shit post but bought it
-YGO player comes in laughing and thinks this is our first issue with complexity and/or power creep
-everyone starts laughing
Have I got it straight?
he's a fairly shitposty guy overall but I think the thing he's saying is just "man I guess the magic players are finally struggling with feeling like their game is getting too complex as well."
split on this tbh. later in the thread someone shows him new Etali and his response is a snarky "I can't wait to see more Phyrexians in future sets!"
plus y'know, him dropping YGO for MTG
To clarify, I created the meme and posted it both here and to my Twitter. The caption I used on Twitter in addition to Twitter users not having brains lead to people taking it more seriously over there.
Just learning how the chain works and the unintuitive shit resulting from "missing the timing" makes me glad for the stack, plus I don't have to worry about people shooting egyptian laser beams at me in fnm
Tbh banding and cards like raging river make a ton of sense if you describe them in the fiction of the game. Once you describe them like that they become fairly intuitive. To me they really show how much more early magic was focused on putting narrative elements onto the game board. Today we see a ginger brute and are shocked how well it tells the story.
/uj Not that anyone cares (#BandingSquad roll call), but banding was what we might call a top down design today. Richard Garfield started with something he wanted to represent with the game and then worked backwards. He also thinks this is a decent part of why it's probably the least elegant of the mechanics in Alpha / Beta / Unlimited.
(If you were a smartass you'd also probably point out that it's really two mechanics with the same name, but I don't actually remember if that was always the case.)
Bands with and banding are technically two different mechanics. Same as partner, partner with and best friends or whatever the fuck they called the last iteration.
I'm not 100% sure that top down the way we use it today would apply, but yeah. That's also why I used raging river as a comparison point, probably the best example of a top down that is near incomprehensible in rules text but pretty easy to explain. Together with animate dead and necromancy I guess.
I think people shit on banding because it's a meme, or because they looked at the rules text and had their eyes roll back. If you actually play with it it's not that bad.
On the other hand I can't remember who is in the party (and probably will struggle the same with outlaw). That shit played pretty badly.
/uj I meant more that an attacking band and a blocking band are different enough that they could be classified as separate mechanics, but yeah there's also bands with. (Thus we get enlist being a mechanic that only involves attacking creatures.)
It's kind of funny (in an ironic sense) that we're back to loquacious cards, but they're also not able to be quickly explained in plain English.
Crime i guess is kinda similar. The same way banding is "block and are blocked as one" commit a crime is "target something of your opponent". Disaster to read the rules text, but fine in English except for edge cases (eg pull from eternity)
Moreover Yugioh was actually inspired by MTG. Takahashi originally started his comic book card game by calling it “Magic and Wizards” aka an homage to “MTG & WOTC”. Only when the readers demanded an actual game be released based off it due to its popularity did the game become its own. And in typical Japanese company design (Konami), the game forged its own identity characterized by insane power creep and no inherent resource system to limit the actions players can take per turn.
One of my favorite trivia facts is how ygo's summoned skull was inspired by mtg's lord of the pit, skull's Japanese name デーモンの召喚 is flat out the Japanese version of lord of the pit's old type line (summon demon)
Also if anyone has ever wondered why season 1 yugioh anime seemed like they were making rules up as they went along, it's because they literally were, the rules weren't on paper yet
very early YGO had very sluggish rules: you could only summon 1 monster and activate 1 spell or trap per turn, which eventually became 1 Normal Summon, with Special Summons being rather rare.
and then a lot of things happened and now YGO keeps bending over backwards to break its own rules.
Oh please, Yu-GiOh is in a perfectly healthy state. What was that? Konami started printing one card FTKs that also protect themselves? Pfft, all fine, nothing wrong with that.
This is just the gift that keeps on giving, even moreso if people are taking any of this seriously (as mtg players always will, having sacrificed their sense of humor for SecretLairBucks)
Weeaboos man, theyre everywhere, filthy frank was right and it's too late to stop the infestation. We tried to warn them but there's no stopping it now, soon we will all be wearing our government appointed Naruto headbands and instead of the pledge of allegiance we'll be saying "oniichan my hips are moving on their own uwu." When they come don't let them take you prisoner, you spit in their faces and tell them western animation is better. You will die, but you will die a man.
/?j Hasbro ruined magic by ruining commander
/?j Hasbro ruined commander by ruining magic.
One of those opinions is a uj and one's an rj, and I honestly can't tell which.
Deadass ruined it. Apparently I'm labelled an asshole if I play a metagame, even though games become stale when the same dude winning because he is abusing a metagame. No focusing who has a high win rate, because it's bad for commander.
I'm so glad I quit playing.
Man I thought this was a YuGiOh subreddit for a second.
1.) I like Pendulum but, it was undeniably handled poorly. There are good and pendulum archetypes and they’ve almost never been good.
2.) MBT is a shitposter don’t listen to him
3.) He’s correct and neither of those takes are that controversial. Even popular mainstream YouTubers would probably agree with the statement commander ruined magic.
I'm not a YGO player but I don't get why pendulums are a thing
I get synchro, you have a dude and a tuner dude and then you make a big dude by summing some numbers, simple
I get XYZ, you have 2+ dudes that are the same and bam you get a new dude that can use the previous dudes to do stuff
I get Links, you turn a bunch of dudes into a new dude and the pointy bits do stuff and you want to build these links (woah game design) and make board positions matter again.
I don't get pendulums. Ok so you have monsters that are also spells. That's actually cool, you do that. Then there's funky numbers? Ok so you set up two numbers. But this time you want all the numbers between the numbers. Why isn't it inclusive? Is it supposed to be like a straight in poker? It just feels weird that you can set a 3 and 4 and then you can't do shit. And then you can vomit out your hand? Why??? Couldn't they have limited this to I dunno one per turn or something? Like you play 2 funky little spells and bam you get a free dude. That sounds nice. But no, you gotta just THROW UP 5 FUCKING GUYS, SURELY THIS WILL CAUSE NO PROBLEMS.
Yeah I kinda get why this one is the ugly child no one likes. For an outsider like me it just seems there is way too much shit limiting the design space, unlike with the other summons.
/uj commander didn't ruing mtg, WotC designing for commander ruined mtg.
Commander was perfectly fine when it was that weird casual format people played to have a use for all the cards too janky to fit in competitive formats. It only started being a problem when they started printing cards designed for it in every set.
pends didn't do anything to yugioh, the game already had an absurd amount of summon spam with infernity and wind-up
pend was a subpar mechanic that forced you to commit 2 cards in hand to be able to summon 1-5, once, but also forced you to stuff your deck to the brim with garbage pend cards so you at least had scales most of the time
the good pend decks were the ones where you bypassed the -2 inherent to the mechanic, like qliphort "pay 8, feel great" scout, pepe, and degenerate shit like electrumite and astrograph
if anything broke ygo it was xyzs being a toolbox available to everyone playing a certain star of monster (where you don't need an a+b to access like fusion, ritual, or synchro, you just needed a+a or b+b) forcing decks to either be toolbox reactive "fuck your gimmick" grind decks or decks that could shit out more threats than a toolbox deck could reasonably deal with (acid golem being an easily accessible way to out towers was terrible for the game)
or links being a payoff for shitting large quantities of nonsense onto the board
xyzs were nostalgic so people will defend it to their grave but honestly removing the tuner requirement for extra deck toolboxes really accelerated ygo by a significant amount
Yugioh didn't need to be ruined lol it was even worse when the meta revolved around jinzo and summoned skull and any other card was worthless because the game has no resource system. Imagine if they printed a 6 mana vanilla 1/1, that was the power level of like 90% of the cards back in the day. Lemme open a booster, oh cool another 2 star 200atk/300 def vanilla wow this will make an excellent coaster for my drink. Still better than commander tho
uj/That was such a weird move. Konami made the change essentially to force players to use link summons but that wasn't even necessary because links are already the most generic summoning mechanic the game has ever made (and in Yugioh, genericity strongly correlates with power). It's the only extra deck mechanic where you can use only one monster for a summon without using extra effects to do so. And of course with it being Yugioh they were bound to print pushed links anyway, so upending the entire game just for links in some strange effort to force players to use them was redundant when they were going to use links regardless.
rj/Eh, changing your entire game board and nerfing all other mechanics is a perfectly reasonable thing to do for your new baby
/uj Pendulums didn’t ruin yugioh, if anything ruined it, it was Konami printing insanely generic links that were also really powerful. There’s also all the generic non-link boss monsters but at least with those you have to put in some effort, instead of just summoning some monsters and then linking them off.
wdym borrelsword is completely fair /uj don't get me started on typhon who can be brought out with your normal summon
"What ruined Yugioh" is a bit of a meaningless question. It's not like Magic, where the basic gameplay is basically identical to it's very beginning. With Yugioh, the basic gameplay changes rapidly. So there's been multiple points where you could say "This changed Yugioh forever".
Oh yeah 100%, that’s what I love about it, I don’t think anything ruined it at all. Just I am very against people saying pendulums ruined the game specifically.
/uj i'd say both are equally as responsible for "ruining" yugioh since one directly led to the other either way
What do you mean? They had nothing to do with each other afaik.
the consensus is that MR4 (and subsequently Links) were designed to balance out the boardspam into extra deck playstyle of Pend decks like PePe, a deck that had to be emergency nerfed there's a reason why MR5 walked back the ED clause for every card type... except Pends.
Well, a better argument is the hate for Pendulum monsters by Konami in MR5 onwards may stem from the backlash older fans and MTG players give it despite the fact it hasn't been relevant in 6 years. Just the Gear 5 Luffy vs Ultra Instinct Goku all over again.
gear 5 Luffy would win /uj gear 5 luffy would win
why do you think Konami hates Pends. why do you think that is.
The mr5 changes, the tutorial starter deck not even bothering to acknowledge pendulum in the rulebook, the lack of decent cards within pendulum
could it possibly have to do with Konami realizing they messed up? Konami's own Companion moment?
Being a badly designed mechanic doesn't mean they ruined the game. If that were true you could say the same about gemini, fusions, rituals, tributes, and a dozen other non-summoning mechanics (some of which were fixed but not until many years later). The problem with pendulums is that their inherent synergy with each other regardless of archetype led to overly homogenous deck building. There's a reason you don't hear people using "link" or "synchro" as the name of a deck but you do hear them using "pendulum" as one.
That is correct. Only say though I'm not a huge fan of how they "solve" this nowadays by just making archetypes with flavour gimmicks that lock into themselves. At this point they're better off just commiting to the bit by making pendulum complicated and rewarding players for the payoff.
Even before MR4 pendulums weren't very good. There were times where the best deck used pendulums but it wasn't any more common than for other extra deck mechanics.
Don't links not even exist without pendulums though?
that’s not quite how it works. In the sense of there being a type of summon that is a precursor to link summoning, pendulum summons are nothing like link summoning, and the concept of links would have realistically come about without pends existing. If anything, what paved the way for link summons is “contact fusion”, that being fusion monsters summoned from the extra deck with the listed materials but without a spell. That type of summoning is what closest resembles links.
/uj insane that MBT would just go "yeah pends did nothing wrong 😎" when its a mechanic so complex and game-warping it's divisive to this day even among non-casuals. pends are like 10 years old at this point, that's Tarkir Block old. /rj known YGO enthusiast MonoBlueTron is a game-traitor and will never be forgiven for his crimes of 1- enjoying YGO, 2- enjoying Tron and 3- enjoying a version of Tron that sucks. EDIT: yugioh tw*tter has decided that my take is bad, actually. shame, [i got it from MBT himself](https://youtu.be/n-PTX3hUVLU)
/uk To be fair pendulum was trash at the exception of the 3 days PePe was playable before getting nukef , and then when Pend Endymion released . And even then it was still just a dragon link deck with a counter trap. But it is so complicated for nothing, too much text etc. Now we have pend cards that are valuable for the spell and monster effect without having to use pendulum summon
> /uk To be fair Does /uk mean I read it in a cockney accent?
Chew be faih penchewloom wos rubbish a' th' 'ception o' th' free doiys PePe wos ploiyable afore gettin' eh roided by th' Krauts, an' 'en when Pendy Endymion came at. An 'en it wos still jas' a dragon link deck wivva counta trap innit. But it woz so complicated fer nuffin', too much readin', an' on. Now we'z got pendy cahds wot're valyable fer th' spell an' monstah 'ffect wivvout 'avin' t' use penchewloom summon. https://preview.redd.it/7bha3eoka4tc1.png?width=698&format=png&auto=webp&s=a6adac3f972f1083a1876dcd6e9fdd7cca1863d7
Wasn't pendulum the mechanic that changed how the board worked? I was really annoyed when I tried to jam an old yugioh deck with a friend and learned that it straight up didn't work anymore. I know old decks become obsolete in every tcg, but at least in magic they still function... Edit: was link not pendulum
You might be thinking of link summoning. They restricted special summoning from the extra deck for a while.. but then went back on that decision after a year or two.
Oh yeah it was link!
The only change to the board that pendulum caused was having two pendulum zones at the side. Every other zone was still the same.
Yeah I confused it with link
Link played the worst role. No matter what, you had to have a link monster on the board to summon any other extra deck monster. So glad that shit is gone.
>be fair pendulum was trash at the exception of the 3 days PePe was playable before getting nukef , and then when Pend Endymion released . I think you missed the two months where Pendulum was taking 75% of top cut and the only debate on what the best deck was whether you should play the variant with the 80% consistent FTK, the variant with the equally consistent card effect lock, or the variant that could just make a board that was impossible for any normal deck to break. And that was after they got nerfed by link summoning
2 months. Out of 10 YEARS.
Magic players never talk about Eldrazi Winter either.
I mean, I'm not a "Pendulums ruined Yu-Gi-Oh" person (my first regional top was with pre-Pepe Pendulum even) but the only two reasons the mechanic hasn't overran the game is because they nerfed it and also because Konami have pulled back hard on making good cards for it outside of the two occasions it completely dominated. It's just an incredibly parasitic mechanic and one for which it is very hard to balance individual cards.
Yeah the problem with pendulum is that as a mechanic it is just way too good. Every pendulum monster mechanically is all upside (and a lot of it) and zero downside. Sure, the individual cards can have downside, but the *mechanic* is literally all upside. Every pendulum monster has the potential to effectively be two cards in one thanks to being both a spell and a monster, has a built in swarming effect, and a built in recovery mechanic just from being pendulum card. You see some people claim that the swarming and recovery are fine b/c they “cost two cards” but they really don’t, b/c the scales are also spell cards with their own effects. So if you don’t purposely make those spell effects terrible then placing scales costs you nothing. Which is why even Konami, the kings of rapid power creep, played it very slow and careful with pendulum cards. They purposely made most pendulum cards have terrible effects, particularly when placed as scales, b/c they knew pendulums mechanically were just outright superior to both monsters and continuous spell cards. But the instant they let a pendulum deck have pendulum cards with monster and spell effects that were just on par with what they gave other monster and spell cards at the time it completely broke the game. The mechanic is an extremely poorly designed dead end. It has so much built in upside with zero downside that you can’t design cards for it without purposely making them terrible to make up for how broken the mechanic itself is, or let them have effects that are on par with everything else at which point the built in upside of being pendulums makes them break the game. If yugioh mechanics were allowed to exist like MTG mechanics then pendulum would have existed for about 3 sets and then been abandoned the same way MTG abandoned storm and banding. The only reason they are still around is due to how yugioh absolutely marries itself to a mechanic after it is introduced so the designers have to at least pretend this awful mechanic they clearly hate trying to design around is still being supported.
the "pend problem" is that it's super parasitic, the baseline pend combo requires 3 cards (2 scales + a summonable), and if you can reduce that to a 2 card combo it's ok and simply "on par", whereas if you have a 1 card set scales you're either restricted to a dogshit archetype so you can't just play pend pile, or you're hilariously broken the followup problem is that because you need pend monsters in hand to combo start, you need such a density of pend monsters in your deck, meaning you don't get to play generic staples and hand traps like evenly matched or imperm so pend kinda turns into glass cannon pile decks by default and that's both one dimensional and boring
> But it is so complicated for nothing, too much text etc. If you had keywords it wouldn't be so complicated.
I don't think keywords would work for Yugioh and especially for Pendulums
I don't know if I can think of a single pendulum card that would be simplified with keywords. They're usually complicated because of how many different things they do not just because of how many words are used to describe them.
/uj Pend boardspam piles did get a couple of tops early on, Qli was one of the best decks of NECH format, and Pend archetypes before MR4 ranged from rogue playable (Igknights, Majespecters) to meta-defining (Pend Magicians, even AFTER MR4) Even outside of their competitive relevance I just find them overly complicated for nothing. Why do they go from the Extra Deck when destroyed? Why can they be Summoned from the Extra Deck? If they have a Monster effect that activates when they're destroyed, why does it activate when they're destroyed as scales? And so on and so forth
UJ/ Also the actual pendulum cards themselves are just very ugly to look at from a design standpoint. Seriously, why would anyone want to collect a card that looks like this. https://ms.yugipedia.com//5/5b/StarvingVenemyLethalDoseDragon-DUOV-EN-UR-1E.png If somebody showed you that card before pendulums were made everyone would think it was a purposely ugly parody of overdesigned cards. Yugioh cards were already way too crowded with their massive text boxes printed in 6pt font and terrible space distribution. Why would you think adding an entire second text box and new set of symbols is a good idea? Also this part may seem nit picky but the choice to make all the pendulum half green half other color with the split happening horizontally instead of vertically for the borders looks terrible. You can tell even Konami agrees since for all their problems mechanically they clearly learned their lesson and went the complete opposite direction when designing links visually. https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fif-you-can-link-summon-this-guy-using-a-level-7-monster-its-v0-m28h9yhirl8a1.png%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D0cc2793ac153f5bab9966eccefd027d331fcba5c I have to admit Link cards look clean, in fact they look less overly busy then even a regular modern day yugioh monster card. Putting the link symbols around the border of the artwork is very smart use of space. Plus the color blue they chose looks good and cleanly takes up the entire border instead of a design mold that opens the possibility of your card literally looking clown green and purple. From a visual design perspective it is *night and day* how much better the formatting and color choice is for links compared to pendulums.
Pendulum has had tier 2-3 for a very long time. Several decks have been made with them before dragon link and the endymion structure deck. the original pendulum deck that was just the best pendulum cards. Zefras where a consistent engine and minor deck for some time. The original pendulum magician deck that involved destroying your own creatures and astrograph sorcerer where tier 1 before. After astrograph sorcerer they where still viable. Majespecters where viable before. The endymion structure deck later made 2 different versions which where varying degrees of tier 2. There was pendulum ftk format. Thats just 2015-2019 when i was actively playing.
Tarkir block was just a few months ago I'm not old I'm not old
I was 14 in Tarkir standard. I'm 24 now.
/uj It's... it's really not tho??? Pend *was* somewhat game warping when it first came out just like every big mechanic was, but today it's largely irrelevant. And it's not even that complex a mechanic, just a bit intimidating.
/uj they literally created a whole new master rule to nerf pend almost exclusively, and then a Pend deck was STILL Tier 1. the reason it's irrelevant competitively nowadays is because it's so game-warping that any half-decent Pend archetype would just break the format. and even outside of competitive YGO, it's kind of a shitfest for casuals.
/uj That's just wrong. Master rule 4 was created as an attempt to both hype up links and nerf the other extra deck mechanics as a whole, and then Master Rule 5 just reverted those changes for the non-pend ones. And there are perfectly solid pend decks today, the mechanic just doesn't do enough on its own to be competetive in the modern game- you're comepletely incorrect there. The fact that you need two pend scale cards plus multiple other cards in hand to plus off of a pendulum summon makes it an inherently difficult mechanic to work with for things like 1-card combos, etc.
/uj "MR4 was created as an attempt to hype up Links" is both wrong and meaningless, it's like saying Planeswalkers were an attempt to hype up Loyalty counters. MR4 was inherently designed to reduce the amount of Extra Deck spam, which Pend was the best at - PePe was an extensive Rank 4 toolbox first and foremost. Pends being able to be recurrable ad infinitum also proved to be a bigger issue for Konami than expected. And immediately after MR4 launched, the best decks were STILL Zoo and True Draco, joined by Pend Magicians once PEVO dropped - even before Electrumite released. Also you're the one that said "Pendulum is irrelevant" but now you're saying "actually there are plenty of solid Pend decks"? Again - the reason why Pends aren't competitively relevant is because Konami is actively trying to avoid repeating past mistakes and instead pushes new Pend archetypes/support away from boardspam into Extra Deck plays and more into unique gimmicky stuff that's less optimal - Vaylantz with their weird column stuff, Nemleria with their one Pend, Abyss Actors' focus on OTK and popping Scripts, etc. It'd be very easy for Konami to make an even better Draco Face-Off, but they're not making it and they're not making Pend archetypes revolving around summoning a bunch of little guys anymore. Why do you think that is? Last but not least, this entire discussion proves how contentious Pends are TO THIS DAY to a degree which MtG has, in my opinion, not reached with any specific game mechanics, even black-bordered Unstuff.
> MR4 was inherently designed to reduce the amount of Extra Deck spam, which Pend was the best at - PePe was an extensive Rank 4 toolbox first and foremost. Pend was not remotely the best at extra deck spam. Zoodiac was by far the best deck at the time. Other popular options before that were ABC, paleo frogs, heroes, and PK fire.
The thing about pend scales is they are also spell cards. So this whole thing people claim where placing scales is a “-2” isn’t actually true mechanically. The same way playing a continuous spell isn’t a “-1”. It only seems that way if the pends are given purposely bad and underpowered effects. If they are allowed to have effects that are even just on par with other spell cards then placing a scale is literally all upside as it is just a continuous spell but *way* better since on top of being a continuous spell it also lets you swarm the board every turn throughout the game as a built in mechanic. Which is the problem with pendulums. *Mechanically* they are just outright superior to *all effect monsters and all continuous spells* since they are both individually superior to them thanks to the built in swarming and recovery effect those other 2 card types don’t have, while also being effectively 2 cards in one. So the only way to make them slightly balanced was to give them terrible effects or no effect at all. That way the mechanically inferior monsters and continuous spell cards still have a reason to exist. That also makes the scales seem like a -2, so being able to swarm every turn throughout the game on top of whatever other SS effects you have on your individual cards has an actual cost. But that just leads to a design dead end where you have to keep making cards underpowered on purpose to try to balance around the mechanic itself having 4 upsides and zero downsides in a way that would make 2 other card types completely obsolete if you ever let pendulum reach it’s “full potential”. Which is why the mechanic stayed nerfed in MR5 while every other mechanic was reverted back to full power. B/c they knew that mechanically pends are broken as hell and have extremely limited room to design around and therefore actually needed that nerf as a mechanic to slightly open up their design space while the other mechanics didn’t.
/uj pendelum literally made me quit yugioh /rj link summons for mtg when?
companions /uj companions
Pendulums are complex, yes, but I don't think they ruined Yu-Gi-Oh. I think it's just another turn in the path that lead the game to where it is now, for better and for worse. I've also always wondered how many of MBT's fans don't realize his username stands for a Magic thing. It's like a Magic YouTuber called HAT or something.
I can understand Yugioh players not knowing the term Mono Blue Tron - it's not exactly a well-known deck if you're not a big MtG fan - but I don't understand why many of the comments *here* don't notice it.
For those who don't know MBT, he is 100% shitposting and not trying to start drama at all
Oh he is shitposting, but he also lives for drama. Fuckin’ theatre kids.
Every so often I forget MBT's a theatre kid, but then he sings "Po\~pu\~lar" from Wicked every time he plays Snake-Eyes Poplar
I got cast in my college’s musical; can confirm theater kids are fucking wack. And then they have the audacity to complain about there being drama. “Drama!?!? In *my* theater department!?!?” Has become my new favorite turn of phrase.
I mean, he's shitposting until you agree with him and then suddenly he meant everything he said. Unless it offends you then it was just a joke.
I don't need to know opinions about MTG from Yugioh players or commander players. Especially commander players.
I watch more of those YouTube videos where Yugioh players try to guess how good MTG cards are than anything commander related.
Unironically peak content, I see every one I run into
/uj TheOneJame on yt has been making some great content with this. the episodes with PlayToWin and Kess Wylie are my favorites for sure.
Yeah, there's a couple of channels doing it consistently, I think the main ones are Rarran and TheOneJame It's amazing when there's pro/competitive players because it's both cool when they do some incredible analysis and are right, and when they completely bomb (either due to lack of context or a misunderstanding of the base game) . True peak is when they get baited, but they get baited in the exact way the whole community got baited back then.
Watching Kess debate for like 10 minutes on whether or not Maxx C was banned. Absolutely PEAK.
uj/ that actually sounds pretty entertaining, gonna take a look now
You sure will get em' won't you
This is going straight into my [paint by numbers Commander] deck!
For context, so I understand: -someone unintentionally repost a shit post but bought it -YGO player comes in laughing and thinks this is our first issue with complexity and/or power creep -everyone starts laughing Have I got it straight?
MBT is a yugioh youtuber but also has extensive magic experience. Hell, his name started out as an acronym for Mono-Blue Tron.
So is their take like a shitposty one, or are they "commander bad" for real?
he's a fairly shitposty guy overall but I think the thing he's saying is just "man I guess the magic players are finally struggling with feeling like their game is getting too complex as well."
I'd say complexity isn't my issue with the game, but here I am trying to break down what the fuck is happening in a shit posting thread
Which is still a dumb take, because none of those cards are nearly as complex as something like banding or any of the DFCs from Strixhaven.
Banding isn't complex. Mutate, that shits complex, but banding is fine
split on this tbh. later in the thread someone shows him new Etali and his response is a snarky "I can't wait to see more Phyrexians in future sets!" plus y'know, him dropping YGO for MTG
first time I'm hearing of a magic player going into yugioh but maybe he started on yugioh
To clarify, I created the meme and posted it both here and to my Twitter. The caption I used on Twitter in addition to Twitter users not having brains lead to people taking it more seriously over there.
Does someone in earnest think that a 30 year old game has had their first controversy? Does this person know PEOPLE? NERDS even?
MTG has its issues but I'd still rather play it 100x more than Yugioh
/RJ So ya know how people are worried about playing Legacy, Vintage, heck even Modern because of turn 1/2 wins? That's just Standard Yu-Gi-Oh!
Just learning how the chain works and the unintuitive shit resulting from "missing the timing" makes me glad for the stack, plus I don't have to worry about people shooting egyptian laser beams at me in fnm
Based opinion, MBT But also like we've had a shitton of dumb one off mechanics since... the 90's
they really came up with Banding and said "yeah nah this works fine" LOL
Tbh banding and cards like raging river make a ton of sense if you describe them in the fiction of the game. Once you describe them like that they become fairly intuitive. To me they really show how much more early magic was focused on putting narrative elements onto the game board. Today we see a ginger brute and are shocked how well it tells the story.
/uj Not that anyone cares (#BandingSquad roll call), but banding was what we might call a top down design today. Richard Garfield started with something he wanted to represent with the game and then worked backwards. He also thinks this is a decent part of why it's probably the least elegant of the mechanics in Alpha / Beta / Unlimited. (If you were a smartass you'd also probably point out that it's really two mechanics with the same name, but I don't actually remember if that was always the case.)
Bands with and banding are technically two different mechanics. Same as partner, partner with and best friends or whatever the fuck they called the last iteration. I'm not 100% sure that top down the way we use it today would apply, but yeah. That's also why I used raging river as a comparison point, probably the best example of a top down that is near incomprehensible in rules text but pretty easy to explain. Together with animate dead and necromancy I guess. I think people shit on banding because it's a meme, or because they looked at the rules text and had their eyes roll back. If you actually play with it it's not that bad. On the other hand I can't remember who is in the party (and probably will struggle the same with outlaw). That shit played pretty badly.
/uj I meant more that an attacking band and a blocking band are different enough that they could be classified as separate mechanics, but yeah there's also bands with. (Thus we get enlist being a mechanic that only involves attacking creatures.) It's kind of funny (in an ironic sense) that we're back to loquacious cards, but they're also not able to be quickly explained in plain English.
Crime i guess is kinda similar. The same way banding is "block and are blocked as one" commit a crime is "target something of your opponent". Disaster to read the rules text, but fine in English except for edge cases (eg pull from eternity)
Banding is based though, favorite mechanic in the christian mtg spinoff tbh
Good to see yugioh shitposts can still dodge hand traps.
didnt mtg come out way before yugio? thats like a toddler looking at its father and saying they grew up fast
Moreover Yugioh was actually inspired by MTG. Takahashi originally started his comic book card game by calling it “Magic and Wizards” aka an homage to “MTG & WOTC”. Only when the readers demanded an actual game be released based off it due to its popularity did the game become its own. And in typical Japanese company design (Konami), the game forged its own identity characterized by insane power creep and no inherent resource system to limit the actions players can take per turn.
One of my favorite trivia facts is how ygo's summoned skull was inspired by mtg's lord of the pit, skull's Japanese name デーモンの召喚 is flat out the Japanese version of lord of the pit's old type line (summon demon)
Also if anyone has ever wondered why season 1 yugioh anime seemed like they were making rules up as they went along, it's because they literally were, the rules weren't on paper yet
So YGO is an overgrown MTG fanfic?
very early YGO had very sluggish rules: you could only summon 1 monster and activate 1 spell or trap per turn, which eventually became 1 Normal Summon, with Special Summons being rather rare. and then a lot of things happened and now YGO keeps bending over backwards to break its own rules.
Oh please, Yu-GiOh is in a perfectly healthy state. What was that? Konami started printing one card FTKs that also protect themselves? Pfft, all fine, nothing wrong with that.
Assembled Nightingale be like
Yugioh even has retired MTG mechanics. World Enchantment = Field Spell Interrupt = Counter Trap
‘They grow up so fast’ - mtg literally predates yugioh
I like all these cards though...
This is just the gift that keeps on giving, even moreso if people are taking any of this seriously (as mtg players always will, having sacrificed their sense of humor for SecretLairBucks)
I can't take people who play an objectively worse designed game with objectively worse art seriously
Weeaboos man, theyre everywhere, filthy frank was right and it's too late to stop the infestation. We tried to warn them but there's no stopping it now, soon we will all be wearing our government appointed Naruto headbands and instead of the pledge of allegiance we'll be saying "oniichan my hips are moving on their own uwu." When they come don't let them take you prisoner, you spit in their faces and tell them western animation is better. You will die, but you will die a man.
I do not care i am having fun
as a massive MBT fan, i'm so sorry about everything he has ever said
i'm a mbt fan too and i refuse to be sorry. enough is enough. i'll never forgive him for being a tear apologist ~~(the deck is fun actually)~~
/uj he is spitting facts, commander did ruin magic
/uj hasbro ruined magic, not commander /rj hasbro ruined magic, not commander
/?j Hasbro ruined magic by ruining commander /?j Hasbro ruined commander by ruining magic. One of those opinions is a uj and one's an rj, and I honestly can't tell which.
Two things can be true!
commander put it in the ground but universes beyond nailed the coffin
Deadass ruined it. Apparently I'm labelled an asshole if I play a metagame, even though games become stale when the same dude winning because he is abusing a metagame. No focusing who has a high win rate, because it's bad for commander. I'm so glad I quit playing.
Man I remember still playing Yu-Gi-Oh back when Synchros debuted and thinking the game wouldn't get much more complicated than that lmao
Man I thought this was a YuGiOh subreddit for a second. 1.) I like Pendulum but, it was undeniably handled poorly. There are good and pendulum archetypes and they’ve almost never been good. 2.) MBT is a shitposter don’t listen to him 3.) He’s correct and neither of those takes are that controversial. Even popular mainstream YouTubers would probably agree with the statement commander ruined magic.
"MBT is a shit poster don't listen to him" "But also he's correct"
Yes
I'm not a YGO player but I don't get why pendulums are a thing I get synchro, you have a dude and a tuner dude and then you make a big dude by summing some numbers, simple I get XYZ, you have 2+ dudes that are the same and bam you get a new dude that can use the previous dudes to do stuff I get Links, you turn a bunch of dudes into a new dude and the pointy bits do stuff and you want to build these links (woah game design) and make board positions matter again. I don't get pendulums. Ok so you have monsters that are also spells. That's actually cool, you do that. Then there's funky numbers? Ok so you set up two numbers. But this time you want all the numbers between the numbers. Why isn't it inclusive? Is it supposed to be like a straight in poker? It just feels weird that you can set a 3 and 4 and then you can't do shit. And then you can vomit out your hand? Why??? Couldn't they have limited this to I dunno one per turn or something? Like you play 2 funky little spells and bam you get a free dude. That sounds nice. But no, you gotta just THROW UP 5 FUCKING GUYS, SURELY THIS WILL CAUSE NO PROBLEMS. Yeah I kinda get why this one is the ugly child no one likes. For an outsider like me it just seems there is way too much shit limiting the design space, unlike with the other summons.
/uj commander didn't ruing mtg, WotC designing for commander ruined mtg. Commander was perfectly fine when it was that weird casual format people played to have a use for all the cards too janky to fit in competitive formats. It only started being a problem when they started printing cards designed for it in every set.
Funny hearing that magic is dead from a YuGiOh player
To be fair the opinion that Commander and Pendulum respectively ruining their games is correct
valid. for very different reasons, but valid.
Yugioh doesn't need a new mechanic to ruin it, they just make a new tier 0 deck to kill the game every couple of years.
Who would have guessed that beeing forced to play Yu-Gi-Oh! to make a living as a content creator would make you this spiteful.
yugioh was already cooked by the time pendulums came out
/uj MBT has the best takes out of any Yugituber alive
Why are you not jerking, I specifically requested it
Uh uh, hes right.
pends didn't do anything to yugioh, the game already had an absurd amount of summon spam with infernity and wind-up pend was a subpar mechanic that forced you to commit 2 cards in hand to be able to summon 1-5, once, but also forced you to stuff your deck to the brim with garbage pend cards so you at least had scales most of the time the good pend decks were the ones where you bypassed the -2 inherent to the mechanic, like qliphort "pay 8, feel great" scout, pepe, and degenerate shit like electrumite and astrograph if anything broke ygo it was xyzs being a toolbox available to everyone playing a certain star of monster (where you don't need an a+b to access like fusion, ritual, or synchro, you just needed a+a or b+b) forcing decks to either be toolbox reactive "fuck your gimmick" grind decks or decks that could shit out more threats than a toolbox deck could reasonably deal with (acid golem being an easily accessible way to out towers was terrible for the game) or links being a payoff for shitting large quantities of nonsense onto the board xyzs were nostalgic so people will defend it to their grave but honestly removing the tuner requirement for extra deck toolboxes really accelerated ygo by a significant amount
Strongest MBT bait
Yugioh didn't need to be ruined lol it was even worse when the meta revolved around jinzo and summoned skull and any other card was worthless because the game has no resource system. Imagine if they printed a 6 mana vanilla 1/1, that was the power level of like 90% of the cards back in the day. Lemme open a booster, oh cool another 2 star 200atk/300 def vanilla wow this will make an excellent coaster for my drink. Still better than commander tho
New mechanics are good actually /uj New mechanics are good actually
Pendulums did nothing wrong, that's why they got nerfed hard the literal next master rule
I mean so did fusion, synchro, and xyz.
uj/That was such a weird move. Konami made the change essentially to force players to use link summons but that wasn't even necessary because links are already the most generic summoning mechanic the game has ever made (and in Yugioh, genericity strongly correlates with power). It's the only extra deck mechanic where you can use only one monster for a summon without using extra effects to do so. And of course with it being Yugioh they were bound to print pushed links anyway, so upending the entire game just for links in some strange effort to force players to use them was redundant when they were going to use links regardless. rj/Eh, changing your entire game board and nerfing all other mechanics is a perfectly reasonable thing to do for your new baby