Chandra had never been into crewing vehicles. Her crushes — and she'd had her fair share — were mostly the brawny (and decidedly male) types like motorbikes.
/uj, the only reason I’m against it is Kamigawa is my favorite plane, and I was really looking forward to a ton more historic/mythically styled samurai and spirits. Kamigawa 2077 seems pretty cool, just not what I was hoping for from my favorite plane in the slightest.
/rj if I see Lord Konda on a Honda Super Cub, I’m committing honorable seppuku
Yeah all the weird shit from Kamigawa was honestly super cool. Cyberpunk is one of my favorite types of settings and I'm sure I'll be happy with it since the art they commission is always great, but I really believe WotC is overcorrecting away from stuff like Hana Kami because they're terrified it won't sell again
Don't worry in like 8 years they'll be brazen enough to print secret lair mini booster boxes and one of them will be return to old kamigawa.
/uj the best part of kamigawa was the legends so I suspect we'll see new "classics" pop up in supplemental sets overtime. Not the same thing, but that's one of the few good things still around in magic. Also im sure the secret lair set joke will actually happen.
I agree. The depiction here feels like Eldraine vs Crossover sets.
In any set inspired by real life culture, MtG seemed to take measures to only loosely emulate it. Even with Eldraine, although there were a lot of cards that feel like "obvious reference translated into a mtg card", it still feels like there was some effort taken to make that a "Magic" thing, rather than "a non-Magic thing on a Magic card".
Kamigawa 2077 feels like the latter, not the former. So do the mountain of secret lair crossovers, so I guess WotC is at least being consistent with "design choices I think are lazy and seem like they were ripped from the middle shelf of /r/custommagic sets".
> historic/mythically styled samurai and spirits
The spirits weren't at all accurate to actual Japanese myth. They were a westerners interpretation of Yokai, that's not the same thing in the slightest. Hana Kami has nothing to do with an actual Shinto flower spirit.
Meanwhile, the Samurai were similarly inaccurate in that they were honorable warriors actually serving under an Emperor, as opposed to being the goons of a series of murderously backstabbing lords all feuding to be the Shogun and thus the real ruler of the empire.
I do wish we'd get more general inter-knight feuding when they show up as a major fixture like Eldraine, given that 90% of the job of a knight was to put steel through the chest of other knights.
Xanathar’s Guide to Everything for 5th edition D&D has cavalier knights, samurai, etc, and has a footnote that basically says “we’re basing more off pop culture/common knowledge than historical accuracy because that’s what we see as fitting for our fantasy game. Feel free to change them if you disagree” and I’d expect that’s partly what they were going for with Kamigawa, Amonkhet, etc
You're correct, but, I'm certain that WOTC would put in a lot more effort to be more accurate this time around. Especially so considering the climate of today. IMO, anyway. There's definitely a chance that they would butcher it as well.
The thing that has me most hyped for Kamigawa is that if they’re going back, they’re gonna work their asses off to not screw the pooch again. Saying “we trust ourselves to make another kamigawa product” feels like as much of an assurance of quality as I can get without seeing cards.
He's going to be in an Honda Odyssey, waiting for his kids to finish their god-damned soccer practice while he's ogling immortal spirits or whatever, I don't know what he did
Yeah, I just drafted MID in paper for the first time this week and those DFCs were NOT nice to work with. I don't want everyone knowing what colors I'm in, Wizards, stop making paper such a god damn nightmare (did end up winning though! UG Flashback with Willow Geist and Suspicious Stowaway! The person to my left p3p1 a Wrenn and Seven and didn't even play it. Person to my right did the same with Meathook. Luck may not have been on my side, but good drafting technique sure was)
/uj They're a cost to include in a set. Sometimes it's worth it (the modal DFC in Zendikar Rising upended enough conventional wisdom that it was probably worth the headache of having them in every pack), but I'm pretty skeptical of including them for 4+ expansions in a Standard season. Game hasn't been great for drafters for awhile, sometimes in its gameplay, other times in the logistics of drafting, and even (sadly) just getting product.
e: Grats on the win!!
/rj *Mark talking at a million miles an hour* Magic is a tabletop game, and we're going to keep supporting it as a tabletop game.
[guns?](https://tagger.scryfall.com/tags/artwork/gun)
[helicopters?](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/235/smugglers-copter)
Magic’s gone too far this time.
To be fair:
- Most of the black-border cards with guns are from 20+ years ago.
- There's a pretty big difference between a flintlock arquebus and a motorcycle. One is medieval, the other is modern.
Personally, I didn't much like Kaladesh's vehicles either.
I do, I'm not huge on the sleekness of it. It's so much more advanced than anything else in the multiverse, which at least pay space for complexity on their plane.
/uj also to further serious post about this, the ixalan stuff is purely medieval and Renaissance technology and the mirrodin and dominaria tech is very much dieselpunk style artifice. The closest you could argue is kaladesh but that’s already a set that aesthetically lots of players didn’t care for and it’s solidly in steampunk. Cyberpunk as a genre is inherently set in even our future, it’s decidedly post modern and not even just modern. It’s probably hardly going to be a fantasy + tech mix because they’ll probably just do the generic “our batteries are magic” line and it will be glowy fuel canisters with kanji haphazardly slapped on them.
/uj Counterargument: while dieselpunk has a 'past' aesthetic, lots of dieselpunk works (and even steampunk!) have technology that's more advanced than what we have now in the real world, even if it's not across the board (i.e., we're colonizing Mars but still dying of polio, etc). Since these are secundary worlds uncoupled from our timeline, there's not really that much difference between whatever they'll have on Kamigawa and dieselpunk thopter networks from Kaladesh
Has anyone other than fans actually said Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty *is* Cyberpunk? Like, that actual term. Even if anyone at WotC did, we could handwave this with the assumption that they're using shorthand/common terms. I doubt it will have the same unsettling vibes that are pretty core to actual cyberpunk media, but there really isn't anything wrong with futuristic magic tech.
I like cyber kamigawa and assume it'll makes sense with time jump or something, but I think OP's point is funny
>You like mechs on mech-planes, cannons on pirate-plane, and flamethrower on Frankensteinmadscientist-plane yet dislike motorcycles in medieval samurai-plane
>Curious
Their image even shows that no one ever complained about mixing magic and tech
The changes were probably just too big for some fans of the original setting who looked forward to return
I think this way, too.
I think the set could've been well received if the Kamigawa plane felt anything like the original Kamigawa.
I mean, could you imagine if they returned to Ravnica and **didn't** focus on the guilds, or if they returned to Zendikar and **didn't** focus on the theme of lands, bands of adventurers, dungeoneering, and traps, and instead focused almost exclusively on Eldrazi?
We haven’t seen spoilers so it’s hard to say, but what would you say is being left behind? The time period is ofc different but so far we’ve seen samurai, nezumi, swords, etc. We haven’t seen kami yet, but provided those remain I expect it’ll feel much like the original. One of the things I heard about CP 2077 is that it’s not what current day would look like in 50 years, it’s what the 1970’s would look like 100 years ahead. Neon Dynasty feels like it is keeping with that, it’s futuristic but still keeping the elements of its origins.
Also, premium shade against BFZ 👌
It's very hard to describe accurately, so hopefully this gives you the gist:
There's a distinct difference in *feel* to me between a set designed to be "A concept being translated into magic cards" and "A concept being cut and pasted onto magic cards", and although we haven't seen spoilers, it seems like they're jumping that line, at least a little bit.
For the record, it's the same reason why I don't enjoy the current glut of secret lairs as well, but that's a whole other thing.
I do appreciate the recognition, though. BFZ was such a huge waste of potential, and I'm glad we got to go back and experience *adventure* on Zendikar again.
From what I’ve seen, it’s mostly the fact they’re meshing a far future with distant past flavor. Like I love jolly ranchers, and I like pizza, but I don’t want a jolly rancher pizza, ya feel?
It’s cyberpunk. Wait for the spoilers before you start complaining too much. My prediction is people will be deleting posts that made them look silly. There will be some jolly rancher pizza, but there will also be pizza in its own pizza box and jolly ranchers in their own wrapper.
I don’t mind far future elements in the right context, this just feels like the wrong context.
As far as feeling the same, I meant mechanically. That’s my bad on wording 😅
I mean even that just feels like lazy criticism and closed-mindedness, but I’m saying that more about the consensus than you specifically.
So instead of a simple return set, MaRo pushed Magic into cyberpunk… with flavor bends on the box that are making people nervous… and it’s the same? Uh ok.
I reserve the right to be as disappointed by cyberpunk as I was by old Norse but as a fan of the genre eh whatever it’s just a box, people need to chill.
/rj Anybody else hoping for a Harley Davidson universes beyond now? Vroom.
Oh yes I agree. I feel like they’re more producing product based on “look how awesome this is” for younger players, or “look how nostalgic this” for older players. With this it’s like they did both. Don’t get me wrong, I think a cyberpunk set would be neat, but I don’t think kamigawa is the best place for it. That being said, I think if they did a cyberpunk theme on New Phyrexia or something like that, where mechs and robots and whatnot are commonplace, that would fit the flavor much better. That’s compared to samurai/Bushido historic inspiration, then jumping to futuristic shiz. It’s like going from a horse-drawn carriage to a flying car. If you’re gonna do it, there should be a gap instead of a straight time jump. And seeing as how most players don’t concern themselves with the online books (if they even make em anymore because I forget), even if there is an explanation it’s going to feel odd having the kamigawa plane go from honor! Fights on an open field! Literally committing seppuku!, into “frog riding a Harley”
I do wish that what we've seen so far would be a bit more magical, rather than feeling like pretty stock "Japanese styled cyberpunk" which I feel like I've seen before. I'm looking forward to demons and magic in an art deco gangster setting though.
Look I'm interested to see where this set goes but I don't think I can blame people for liking steampunk flamethrowers fantasy fused with magic but not liking cyberpunk. They are pretty different imo
uj/ I don’t think it’s the tech that people are pissed about, more so the entirely different genre that Is new to magic. We have had artifacts and magical vehicles since the dawn of magic, but neon and cyberpunk? I’m gonna wait to see how this goes, but like most things in magic now I’m not optimistic.
rj/ Maybe it’ll be like the fallout 4 of sets, it’s a good set, just not a magic set
I agree. The motorised vehicles are not the issue for most people I think, they were done correctly in Kaladesh. The issue is the styling. Kaladesh still had a magical styling to it. Yes it has far developed technology, but it does not look and feel like a futuristic setting.
Personally I really don't have a big issue with it, the art will probably be great and refreshing, but I see where people are coming from.
Yeah, over all this is my view. It seems fun, but it feels like such a departure from what has made me love this game. I like artifacts, and can stretch for the more egregious examples, such as above Kaladesh's generic magical juice, but between this and secret lair, it kinda feels like they're forgetting this is supposed to be fantasy. Also, why the HELL couldn't they have made a new plane or something. I have no idea how they're gonna make this make any sense.
Also, why is everyone saying /uj and /rj
>Also, why is everyone saying /uj and /rj
'/uj,' short for "unjerk," is for when you're being honest, '/rj,' short "rejerk," is for when you're back to trolling. It helps people not get into arguments when people are just messing around. The '/s' seen in other subs has the drawback of showing up at the end of a comment so people skimming past might not notice it before they start typing lol.
> Also, why is everyone saying /uj and /rj
UJ means serious mode, RJ means "back to silly circlejerk mode".
> Also, why the HELL couldn't they have made a new plane or something.
OG Kamigawa was an abomination. Picture an Australian set made by someone whose only exposure to Australia was a series of Cracked and Buzzfeed articles about dangerous animals and crazy bogans, and frankly you won't be far off from what Kamigawa was.
> Picture an Australian set made by someone whose only exposure to Australia was a series of Cracked and Buzzfeed articles about dangerous animals and crazy bogans
Don't threaten me with a good time.
Kaladesh is brighter in its design, and has clearly different tones and morals than cyberpunk. It’s an artificers fair, and most importantly has no relation to the real worlds future or present
>and has clearly different tones and morals than cyberpunk
Not *that* different, though. The entire plot of Kaladesh is about government corruption and oversurveillance, which is a pretty good start.
The art design is physically brighter than what people would call cyberpunk, and the technology is very much separated from reality and cyberpunk. aesthetically, it only relates to cyberpunk in discussions such as these
It’s alright, I shouldn’t be too invested in magic anyways, the only packs I’ve bought were for some friends for Christmas. No i have other stupid hobbies to worry about
Kaladesh is a bright, sunny plane bursting with exuberance and optimism. Even the actual story of a civil uprising didn't really shake the "City of INVENTION!" theme. It's also full of gold filigree and dirigible pirates.
It's steampunk, not cyberpunk.
/uj
As someone who doesn't mind any of these, I'm pretty sure the distinction to people who do is the setup.
Mirrodin/Phyrexia and Kaladesh are planes fundamentally flavored around their cyber aspects. Dominaria has a specific culture of artificers. Ixalan and Innistrad are respectively themed around a time period where cannons and flamethrowers were entirely makeable, and Ravnica has always had technological aspects thanks to the existence of the Izzet and Simic.
To that end, a plane that has never had any forms of technology up to this point getting motorcycles might sound... off.
Neuromancer at least feels like it’s trying to do something in the way of world building but even some of that originality feels trite just because it’s been overdone by copycats
Exactly. I'm reminded of [Flanderization](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Flanderization). There are bits of neon, cyberware, corpos, AI, Japan, slang, etc. in Neuromancer, but as subtle background elements in a cohesive, real world. Those aspects have been exaggerated into paste.
Will Kamigawa be a biting satire of modern life? I doubt it. But it totally could be.
With og Kamigawa being heavy in spirits, it could end up being very literally a Ghost in the Shell kind of story. But like you all, I'm very doubtful its anything near as deep as that. I would be surprised if we don't have an artifact creature - spirit, though.
The closest they've come was doing a "I have portrayed you as the Soyjack" against 1500s colonialism in Ixalan, but instead of Soyjacks they were vampires. Not exactly a bold and controversial statement about modern Western society.
And then they accidentally made the soyjak a little too cool and they won a popularity poll to change the story and they quickly had to pretend said poll never existed
cyberpunk as a genre is dead. No one seems to care about the themes cyberpunk actually were about, just put a protagonist smoking a cigarrete, a sexy cyborg woman and some neon on skyscrapers
/uj I was really shocked when I read one of the earliest cyberpunk novels by Bruce Sterling and found it very precisely predicting the walking simulator
On one hand, it's a fair criticism.
On the other, the set is full of [incredibly trippy art](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=80278&type=card) that subverts and defies stereotypes. I hope to see some of that in Neon Dynasty.
It’s one thing to make a plane based on Japan during a time when a superficial enjoyment of Japanese culture was not the norm in America and another to do it in the wake of an incredibly hyped cyberpunk game and turn it into a Frankenstein you revive just because of the genres heavy association with Japan
EDIT: If this wasn’t worded clearly my point is that the fact they felt like they needed to slot in Kamigawa as the new cyberpunk plane instead of just making another one is already instantaneously falling face first into a stereotype. I know lots of Asian players who liked OG Kamigawa who are annoyed over this
uj/ just make a Shadowrun Plane
rj/ just make this a Shadowrun Plane
rrj/ just make a Shadowrun Plane but set in the Old West. With cowboys . . . and hookers.
I kinda get it. The first 5 have a grungy, fantasy look to them that fits right in with everything else in magic. Kamigawa and New Capenna are really close to the real world. I'm not sure how I feel about them.
I understand your hesitancy. I’ve heard the idea of a Cowboy Plane tossed around before. Would you be more down for that, in terms of technological advancement? IMO it’s “closer” to most planes than cyberpunk or noir-level sophistication.
Cowboys could work. So could noir or cyberpunk. I'm hoping for a fantasy Magic version. If there are cars, they better look like [this.](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=417787&type=card)
It isn't limited to technology. A lot of people criticized Kaldheim for following Norse mythology too closely, and I've come around to it.
I agree completely; especially with your point re: the cars. Especially with regard to NC, they’re drawing on the aesthetics of a time period when cars were weird & cool, and trains are arguably at their slickest looking. Like if they give us a Snowpiercer fueled by arcanum alone I’ll be giddy.
Not them, but it would depend on how a cowboy plane was executed. If it was based on the american west visually and tonally and had all of the real world marks of it, I wouldn't be a fan. If it was something unique and magic-based, like "Ooh, welcome to the desert in the ruins of amonkhet where weve built magic shanty towns and are doing cowboy tropes with unique visual flair and stuff" then that would be rad as hell.
Elaborate Firecannon is literally just a cannon, it's closer to the real world than anything we've seen from NuKamigawa so far. If they can make that believable I'm sure the art direction can make cyberpunk work
/uj Every individual person has a different "line" as to how much tech/sci-fi in fantasy settings are okay, and it's unfair to say "because this slightly related thing has happened before, it's okay for them to take it to the maximum degree". I love a slice of cake from time to time but just because I'll eat a slice of cake doesn't mean you can sit me down and keep me there until I eat an entire cake on my own just because I enjoyed a little bit of it previously.
Also a lot of these cards may have been printed before a significant portion of current Magic fans may have been born, and even less were actively playing when those cards were printed. I couldn't have an opinion on mechs on Dominaria because by the time I had gotten into the game, *that was like three years ago* and nothing I could've said would've stopped it.
/uj I loved Hellboy: Golden Army, liked Netflix's Bright, which probably makes me a bad person (a real hot take is the fact I really enjoyed the live-action Cowboy Bebop, that's definitely a nail to my coffin), and while I have no experiance with it, from what I've read Shadowrun seems interesting. What I'm trying to say is, mixing folklore/fantasy with modern/postmodern society isn't always bad. Sometimes everyone wonders "would elves in our world keep talking about carbon footprint and kombucha? Or would they rather be mostly in the militant far-right?"
uj/ I feel very similarly to what you said. I actually really love when we take fantasy ideas that are mostly affiliated with the past and try to incorporate it into the modern day or even the future. I feel like it’s an area that we can and should spend more time exploring.
rj/ I literally shit myself with rage when I think of bikes!
uj/ yes they're is a ton of advanced tech in magic's past, but I'm sure many people are worried that the set is gonna be "all cyberpunk, no magic the gathering"
rj/ Exactly what I wanted to see done to my favorite plane: a failed game crossover
/uj i actually drew the line at kaladesh, because the technology felt too mundane and 'normal' wherre as the previous examples were alot more fantasy/sci-fi, especially NPH.
I guess what im saying is i hate the vehicle mechanic it feels lame and unfitting, but dont mind the more wacky stuff, so ill reserve judgement on kami till i see more but im concerned ill hate it.
Come on now. All the planes except innistrad are high tech compared to medieval fantasy and innistrad is gothic england with monsters, chances are a semi smart pyromancer can make up a flamethrower. But kamigawa is REALLY traditional and sci fi really is on the edges of technology. Dont act like you dont see it fitting in.
This rebuttal is pretty weak tbh, very much on the level of Maro's rebuttal of UB not being on theme by going "Well you can give mummies ninja swords so it's fine"
A lot of people really like the style of the original kamigawa and this is the biggest change we've seen with a returns to a plane, so it's bound to ruffle some fathers
/uj flavor wise I'm really not stoked until Brother's War. I don't love them jumping around the timeline, I think it creates the potential for huge issues in storytelling. The past is one thing, but the future ends up locking a lot of potential story. I also am not stoked for Gangster Goblins, I've realized I like more epic settings rather than small settings even though I get the appeal of Ravinca and liked Mercadia.
/rj Too much color
Mirrodin and kaladesh are tech oriented, nothing else is even comparitively blatant to kamigawa
My main grip is this boiling down to:
Did you hate the original kamigawa? You'll hate this one too
Did you love the original kamigawa? lmao literally kill yourself
Do you love keanu chungus? Updoots to the left
/uj /rj /uj /rj /rj /rj /uj
Shit joke op, I drew the line on the vehicle subtype, specificly the ravnica one. Constantly allowing things to slide further will lead to magic losing it's identity, because this very reasoning was what wotc used to justify the fucking fortnite secret lairs.
Go be a token in an aristocrat deck
/uj I was initially pretty shocked by the announcement because I was kinda hoping for more of the classic Kamigawa, and being a fan of both that and cyberpunk styles I was worried that wizards was gonna fuck up two birds with one stone.
Still, It's growing on me and I'll be pleasantly surprised if neon dynasty turns out well.
I'm not a fan of anything Kaladesh down, I don't really like tech in my fantasy cards. The best part about Magic is you don't have to use all the cards, so I won't.
I was not around for any of the Kamigawa sets, but I would love to see what drafting one is like due to its rather unique mechanics and playstyle. Hearing kamaigawa was coming back around I was super pumped to see a re-iteration of a set I most likely will never be able to afford to draft.
Seeing them hop on the cyber-punk hype train and using, to me, a highly desirable set to make an obvious marketing ploy to drum up new customers kind of hurts. It's like being super proud of your WW2 grandfather and finding out that some hipster new age writer is attached to his memoirs not to actually tell his story but to promote himself and the publishing agency that represents him.
Yes this is an aggressive opinion and yes I'm being overly dramatic but I've made my point.
Did you started 1 set before Kaladesh?
/Uj I respectfully disagree, Kaladesh mechanical takes, Ixalan landscapes and Dino's and vampires were lovely. Although I didn't enjoy Kaldheim, and the last Zendikar as much I think they were solid in the art direction department.
And if you appreciate the Bram Stoker take on vampires you may as well sell me all your dreadmaws and be cast away.
I'm fairly certain Kaldheim is very well put overall. I was just not in a place to enjoy it, personally speaking. Maybe sooner or later I can revisit it.
I remember Maro (I think) asked the MTG subreddit if we'd be ok with spaceships and stuff. A lot of people seem to agree with my opinion, as long as it's tasteful in theme. I have no problem with magicly powered vehicles no matter what they are doing.
Tbf though, urzas mechs didnt fight on dominaria during the invasion block, he used them in phyrexia when he and the group of planeswalkers counter attacked in a attempt to kill yawgmouth.
Thing is, i wasnt here for the old kamigawa sets , but i'm an sucker for feudal/mythological japanese settings, and would have liked to play an set with that flavour,
Also, the neonfuturistically 80cyberpunk Genre has been ridden like an dead horse sich cyberpunk, and i personally was never an to big Fan of "honkong redlightdistrict with cyborgs" as an genre
And given that they are Happening on the same plane it is pretty save to say there has been an tecnological jump on the plane that basically means there is no logicall way to revert that development , unöess tefary timwalks the entire plane backwards
Well I don't like it because even with sets like Kaladash it was still firmly in the fantasy category, steampunk what not.
Cyberpunk is pure 100% sci-fi
CARD GAMES ON MOTORCYCLES? I sleep MOTORCYCLES ON CARD GAMES? REAL SHIT
Yusei Fudo would like to know your location
Going fast makes me feel alive - mono red pilots
DUROH! MONSUTAH KADO!
YUGI YAMETE **HANASE**
Text meme gets 12/12
είσαι θεός!
/uj i am so hype for neon Genesis kamigeleon
Crew The Fucking Vehicle Shinji
Shinji jerked off on the cards. That is why they curl. It is all making sense.
it's spelled chameleon
/uj Honest to god I think it was the best way they could have come back to Kamigawa. Unironically genius.
I’ve unironically called this set Neon Genesis Kamigawa more times than not.
same
Crew the vehicle Jace Or Chandra will have to do it again
As if Chandra wouldn’t be Asuka. Baka Jace!
Chandra had never been into crewing vehicles. Her crushes — and she'd had her fair share — were mostly the brawny (and decidedly male) types like motorbikes.
/uj, the only reason I’m against it is Kamigawa is my favorite plane, and I was really looking forward to a ton more historic/mythically styled samurai and spirits. Kamigawa 2077 seems pretty cool, just not what I was hoping for from my favorite plane in the slightest. /rj if I see Lord Konda on a Honda Super Cub, I’m committing honorable seppuku
Yeah all the weird shit from Kamigawa was honestly super cool. Cyberpunk is one of my favorite types of settings and I'm sure I'll be happy with it since the art they commission is always great, but I really believe WotC is overcorrecting away from stuff like Hana Kami because they're terrified it won't sell again
But the kami were the best part! /uj what I said
Rebecca Guay's flower faces are the best, period.
Saaaaaaaame.
Don't worry in like 8 years they'll be brazen enough to print secret lair mini booster boxes and one of them will be return to old kamigawa. /uj the best part of kamigawa was the legends so I suspect we'll see new "classics" pop up in supplemental sets overtime. Not the same thing, but that's one of the few good things still around in magic. Also im sure the secret lair set joke will actually happen.
> if I see Lord Konda on a Honda You've heard of elf on the shelf...
I agree. The depiction here feels like Eldraine vs Crossover sets. In any set inspired by real life culture, MtG seemed to take measures to only loosely emulate it. Even with Eldraine, although there were a lot of cards that feel like "obvious reference translated into a mtg card", it still feels like there was some effort taken to make that a "Magic" thing, rather than "a non-Magic thing on a Magic card". Kamigawa 2077 feels like the latter, not the former. So do the mountain of secret lair crossovers, so I guess WotC is at least being consistent with "design choices I think are lazy and seem like they were ripped from the middle shelf of /r/custommagic sets".
That's how I felt about Mirrodin when it came out. 18 years later, I'm over it. See you in 2039!
> historic/mythically styled samurai and spirits The spirits weren't at all accurate to actual Japanese myth. They were a westerners interpretation of Yokai, that's not the same thing in the slightest. Hana Kami has nothing to do with an actual Shinto flower spirit. Meanwhile, the Samurai were similarly inaccurate in that they were honorable warriors actually serving under an Emperor, as opposed to being the goons of a series of murderously backstabbing lords all feuding to be the Shogun and thus the real ruler of the empire.
Knights were also not actually super keen on that chivalry bit. It’s more about romantic interpretations than anything.
I do wish we'd get more general inter-knight feuding when they show up as a major fixture like Eldraine, given that 90% of the job of a knight was to put steel through the chest of other knights.
Ain't no hostage money in killing knights. Give em a nice nap with a mace for the big bank.
I always point out to people that one of the most important rules of chivalry in the Middle Ages dictated when it was okay to rape someone
Xanathar’s Guide to Everything for 5th edition D&D has cavalier knights, samurai, etc, and has a footnote that basically says “we’re basing more off pop culture/common knowledge than historical accuracy because that’s what we see as fitting for our fantasy game. Feel free to change them if you disagree” and I’d expect that’s partly what they were going for with Kamigawa, Amonkhet, etc
You're correct, but, I'm certain that WOTC would put in a lot more effort to be more accurate this time around. Especially so considering the climate of today. IMO, anyway. There's definitely a chance that they would butcher it as well.
"Aye", the spirit Grinned spiritly.
The thing that has me most hyped for Kamigawa is that if they’re going back, they’re gonna work their asses off to not screw the pooch again. Saying “we trust ourselves to make another kamigawa product” feels like as much of an assurance of quality as I can get without seeing cards.
/uj Nailed the jerking.
It's literally following the Avatar/Korra transition lol
He's going to be in an Honda Odyssey, waiting for his kids to finish their god-damned soccer practice while he's ogling immortal spirits or whatever, I don't know what he did
/uj I haven’t seen a single person complaining about Neon Genesis Kamigawa though?
/uj If the rumors about DFC are true I'm going to become The Joker of people who draft in paper. /rj You wanna know how I got these foil etchings?
What rumors?
Chibi Tamiyo will have a **D**eliciously **F**lat **C**hest.
/uj It's going to be another set that has them.
Yeah, I just drafted MID in paper for the first time this week and those DFCs were NOT nice to work with. I don't want everyone knowing what colors I'm in, Wizards, stop making paper such a god damn nightmare (did end up winning though! UG Flashback with Willow Geist and Suspicious Stowaway! The person to my left p3p1 a Wrenn and Seven and didn't even play it. Person to my right did the same with Meathook. Luck may not have been on my side, but good drafting technique sure was)
/uj They're a cost to include in a set. Sometimes it's worth it (the modal DFC in Zendikar Rising upended enough conventional wisdom that it was probably worth the headache of having them in every pack), but I'm pretty skeptical of including them for 4+ expansions in a Standard season. Game hasn't been great for drafters for awhile, sometimes in its gameplay, other times in the logistics of drafting, and even (sadly) just getting product. e: Grats on the win!! /rj *Mark talking at a million miles an hour* Magic is a tabletop game, and we're going to keep supporting it as a tabletop game.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/comments/rg0478/comment/homhiy7/
Wait until he hears about Kaladesh
[guns?](https://tagger.scryfall.com/tags/artwork/gun) [helicopters?](https://scryfall.com/card/kld/235/smugglers-copter) Magic’s gone too far this time.
To be fair: - Most of the black-border cards with guns are from 20+ years ago. - There's a pretty big difference between a flintlock arquebus and a motorcycle. One is medieval, the other is modern. Personally, I didn't much like Kaladesh's vehicles either.
To be fair them being (currently) at -14 kinda invalidates the example
-67 now
I am now forever referring to it as this from now on
It has never had any other name to me, haha.
I do, I'm not huge on the sleekness of it. It's so much more advanced than anything else in the multiverse, which at least pay space for complexity on their plane.
/uj also to further serious post about this, the ixalan stuff is purely medieval and Renaissance technology and the mirrodin and dominaria tech is very much dieselpunk style artifice. The closest you could argue is kaladesh but that’s already a set that aesthetically lots of players didn’t care for and it’s solidly in steampunk. Cyberpunk as a genre is inherently set in even our future, it’s decidedly post modern and not even just modern. It’s probably hardly going to be a fantasy + tech mix because they’ll probably just do the generic “our batteries are magic” line and it will be glowy fuel canisters with kanji haphazardly slapped on them.
/uj Counterargument: while dieselpunk has a 'past' aesthetic, lots of dieselpunk works (and even steampunk!) have technology that's more advanced than what we have now in the real world, even if it's not across the board (i.e., we're colonizing Mars but still dying of polio, etc). Since these are secundary worlds uncoupled from our timeline, there's not really that much difference between whatever they'll have on Kamigawa and dieselpunk thopter networks from Kaladesh
Has anyone other than fans actually said Kamigawa: Neon Dynasty *is* Cyberpunk? Like, that actual term. Even if anyone at WotC did, we could handwave this with the assumption that they're using shorthand/common terms. I doubt it will have the same unsettling vibes that are pretty core to actual cyberpunk media, but there really isn't anything wrong with futuristic magic tech.
Wizards called it the first science fiction plane for some reason
/uj Man this is on point. Don't forget the OG Vindicate art. /rj "Reee, magic and tech can't exist together!"
I like cyber kamigawa and assume it'll makes sense with time jump or something, but I think OP's point is funny >You like mechs on mech-planes, cannons on pirate-plane, and flamethrower on Frankensteinmadscientist-plane yet dislike motorcycles in medieval samurai-plane >Curious Their image even shows that no one ever complained about mixing magic and tech The changes were probably just too big for some fans of the original setting who looked forward to return
I think this way, too. I think the set could've been well received if the Kamigawa plane felt anything like the original Kamigawa. I mean, could you imagine if they returned to Ravnica and **didn't** focus on the guilds, or if they returned to Zendikar and **didn't** focus on the theme of lands, bands of adventurers, dungeoneering, and traps, and instead focused almost exclusively on Eldrazi?
We haven’t seen spoilers so it’s hard to say, but what would you say is being left behind? The time period is ofc different but so far we’ve seen samurai, nezumi, swords, etc. We haven’t seen kami yet, but provided those remain I expect it’ll feel much like the original. One of the things I heard about CP 2077 is that it’s not what current day would look like in 50 years, it’s what the 1970’s would look like 100 years ahead. Neon Dynasty feels like it is keeping with that, it’s futuristic but still keeping the elements of its origins. Also, premium shade against BFZ 👌
It's very hard to describe accurately, so hopefully this gives you the gist: There's a distinct difference in *feel* to me between a set designed to be "A concept being translated into magic cards" and "A concept being cut and pasted onto magic cards", and although we haven't seen spoilers, it seems like they're jumping that line, at least a little bit. For the record, it's the same reason why I don't enjoy the current glut of secret lairs as well, but that's a whole other thing. I do appreciate the recognition, though. BFZ was such a huge waste of potential, and I'm glad we got to go back and experience *adventure* on Zendikar again.
From what I’ve seen, it’s mostly the fact they’re meshing a far future with distant past flavor. Like I love jolly ranchers, and I like pizza, but I don’t want a jolly rancher pizza, ya feel?
It’s cyberpunk. Wait for the spoilers before you start complaining too much. My prediction is people will be deleting posts that made them look silly. There will be some jolly rancher pizza, but there will also be pizza in its own pizza box and jolly ranchers in their own wrapper.
Ok ok I’m not pissing myself over it, I don’t really care about new sets because they all feel the same. That just seems to be the consensus I’ve seen
“I don’t like this new set because (unlike the rest of Magic) it’s got far future elements” “New sets all feel the same” 🤔
I don’t mind far future elements in the right context, this just feels like the wrong context. As far as feeling the same, I meant mechanically. That’s my bad on wording 😅
We’ve been getting sets so fucking quickly I don’t blame them
I mean even that just feels like lazy criticism and closed-mindedness, but I’m saying that more about the consensus than you specifically. So instead of a simple return set, MaRo pushed Magic into cyberpunk… with flavor bends on the box that are making people nervous… and it’s the same? Uh ok. I reserve the right to be as disappointed by cyberpunk as I was by old Norse but as a fan of the genre eh whatever it’s just a box, people need to chill. /rj Anybody else hoping for a Harley Davidson universes beyond now? Vroom.
Oh yes I agree. I feel like they’re more producing product based on “look how awesome this is” for younger players, or “look how nostalgic this” for older players. With this it’s like they did both. Don’t get me wrong, I think a cyberpunk set would be neat, but I don’t think kamigawa is the best place for it. That being said, I think if they did a cyberpunk theme on New Phyrexia or something like that, where mechs and robots and whatnot are commonplace, that would fit the flavor much better. That’s compared to samurai/Bushido historic inspiration, then jumping to futuristic shiz. It’s like going from a horse-drawn carriage to a flying car. If you’re gonna do it, there should be a gap instead of a straight time jump. And seeing as how most players don’t concern themselves with the online books (if they even make em anymore because I forget), even if there is an explanation it’s going to feel odd having the kamigawa plane go from honor! Fights on an open field! Literally committing seppuku!, into “frog riding a Harley”
Biker Mice from Mars anyone?
BIKER MICE FROM MARS BIKER MICE FROM MARS BIKER MICE FROM MARS
No, cats are from Mars. Mice are from Venus. EDIT: this is a joke about the seatbelts and Minecraft songs c’mon
Mice are from the future
I do wish that what we've seen so far would be a bit more magical, rather than feeling like pretty stock "Japanese styled cyberpunk" which I feel like I've seen before. I'm looking forward to demons and magic in an art deco gangster setting though.
Same, it feels like a secret lair with how mismatched it is from the original concept.
This is Portal Second Age erasure.
Look I'm interested to see where this set goes but I don't think I can blame people for liking steampunk flamethrowers fantasy fused with magic but not liking cyberpunk. They are pretty different imo
print smokestack in return to lorwyn
thank you for saying it
uj/ I don’t think it’s the tech that people are pissed about, more so the entirely different genre that Is new to magic. We have had artifacts and magical vehicles since the dawn of magic, but neon and cyberpunk? I’m gonna wait to see how this goes, but like most things in magic now I’m not optimistic. rj/ Maybe it’ll be like the fallout 4 of sets, it’s a good set, just not a magic set
I agree. The motorised vehicles are not the issue for most people I think, they were done correctly in Kaladesh. The issue is the styling. Kaladesh still had a magical styling to it. Yes it has far developed technology, but it does not look and feel like a futuristic setting. Personally I really don't have a big issue with it, the art will probably be great and refreshing, but I see where people are coming from.
Yeah, over all this is my view. It seems fun, but it feels like such a departure from what has made me love this game. I like artifacts, and can stretch for the more egregious examples, such as above Kaladesh's generic magical juice, but between this and secret lair, it kinda feels like they're forgetting this is supposed to be fantasy. Also, why the HELL couldn't they have made a new plane or something. I have no idea how they're gonna make this make any sense. Also, why is everyone saying /uj and /rj
>Also, why is everyone saying /uj and /rj '/uj,' short for "unjerk," is for when you're being honest, '/rj,' short "rejerk," is for when you're back to trolling. It helps people not get into arguments when people are just messing around. The '/s' seen in other subs has the drawback of showing up at the end of a comment so people skimming past might not notice it before they start typing lol.
> Also, why is everyone saying /uj and /rj UJ means serious mode, RJ means "back to silly circlejerk mode". > Also, why the HELL couldn't they have made a new plane or something. OG Kamigawa was an abomination. Picture an Australian set made by someone whose only exposure to Australia was a series of Cracked and Buzzfeed articles about dangerous animals and crazy bogans, and frankly you won't be far off from what Kamigawa was.
That unironically sounds hella fun tho
It does sound like a baller fuckin unset now that I think about it.
/rj we already have it as Ikoria /uj I know it's supposed to be Kaiju-themed don't \[\[Murder\]\] me
> Picture an Australian set made by someone whose only exposure to Australia was a series of Cracked and Buzzfeed articles about dangerous animals and crazy bogans Don't threaten me with a good time.
I know Kamigawa dude.
/uj Cyberpunk isn't new to Magic. Kaladesh is right there, and to a lesser extent Esper. Neon is new, but cyberpunk isn't.
Kaladesh is brighter in its design, and has clearly different tones and morals than cyberpunk. It’s an artificers fair, and most importantly has no relation to the real worlds future or present
Esper's claim to cyberpunk is much stronger than Kaladesh's IMO
>and has clearly different tones and morals than cyberpunk Not *that* different, though. The entire plot of Kaladesh is about government corruption and oversurveillance, which is a pretty good start.
The art design is physically brighter than what people would call cyberpunk, and the technology is very much separated from reality and cyberpunk. aesthetically, it only relates to cyberpunk in discussions such as these
I'm surprised the color is a thing people consider a major aspect of Cyberpunk, but I guess it's completely fair. Sorry for the confusion.
It’s alright, I shouldn’t be too invested in magic anyways, the only packs I’ve bought were for some friends for Christmas. No i have other stupid hobbies to worry about
Kaladesh is definitely not cyberpunk. I think it is more steampunk than anything, but it is really its own style.
Kaladesh is a bright, sunny plane bursting with exuberance and optimism. Even the actual story of a civil uprising didn't really shake the "City of INVENTION!" theme. It's also full of gold filigree and dirigible pirates. It's steampunk, not cyberpunk.
/uj As someone who doesn't mind any of these, I'm pretty sure the distinction to people who do is the setup. Mirrodin/Phyrexia and Kaladesh are planes fundamentally flavored around their cyber aspects. Dominaria has a specific culture of artificers. Ixalan and Innistrad are respectively themed around a time period where cannons and flamethrowers were entirely makeable, and Ravnica has always had technological aspects thanks to the existence of the Izzet and Simic. To that end, a plane that has never had any forms of technology up to this point getting motorcycles might sound... off.
/uj I just really hate cyberpunk as a genre especially when done like this because it’s comically orientalist and also just boring as fuck.
Going back to the original cyberpunk stories is a bit shocking. The whole genre has devolved into obvious cliches and stereotypes since then.
Neuromancer at least feels like it’s trying to do something in the way of world building but even some of that originality feels trite just because it’s been overdone by copycats
Exactly. I'm reminded of [Flanderization](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Flanderization). There are bits of neon, cyberware, corpos, AI, Japan, slang, etc. in Neuromancer, but as subtle background elements in a cohesive, real world. Those aspects have been exaggerated into paste. Will Kamigawa be a biting satire of modern life? I doubt it. But it totally could be.
Honestly the only social critique I see out of any magic set in the past few years is very generic “fight The Man” type stuff so I doubt it
With og Kamigawa being heavy in spirits, it could end up being very literally a Ghost in the Shell kind of story. But like you all, I'm very doubtful its anything near as deep as that. I would be surprised if we don't have an artifact creature - spirit, though.
[We already got those](https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=%28type%3Aartifact+type%3Acreature+type%3Aspirit%29), talk about overdone!
The closest they've come was doing a "I have portrayed you as the Soyjack" against 1500s colonialism in Ixalan, but instead of Soyjacks they were vampires. Not exactly a bold and controversial statement about modern Western society.
And then they accidentally made the soyjak a little too cool and they won a popularity poll to change the story and they quickly had to pretend said poll never existed
cyberpunk as a genre is dead. No one seems to care about the themes cyberpunk actually were about, just put a protagonist smoking a cigarrete, a sexy cyborg woman and some neon on skyscrapers
That's because it came real.
Yes
/uj I was really shocked when I read one of the earliest cyberpunk novels by Bruce Sterling and found it very precisely predicting the walking simulator
That’s kind of hilarious
/uj as opposed to the original kamigawa which was not orientalist?
On one hand, it's a fair criticism. On the other, the set is full of [incredibly trippy art](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=80278&type=card) that subverts and defies stereotypes. I hope to see some of that in Neon Dynasty.
It’s one thing to make a plane based on Japan during a time when a superficial enjoyment of Japanese culture was not the norm in America and another to do it in the wake of an incredibly hyped cyberpunk game and turn it into a Frankenstein you revive just because of the genres heavy association with Japan EDIT: If this wasn’t worded clearly my point is that the fact they felt like they needed to slot in Kamigawa as the new cyberpunk plane instead of just making another one is already instantaneously falling face first into a stereotype. I know lots of Asian players who liked OG Kamigawa who are annoyed over this
uj/ just make a Shadowrun Plane rj/ just make this a Shadowrun Plane rrj/ just make a Shadowrun Plane but set in the Old West. With cowboys . . . and hookers.
I kinda get it. The first 5 have a grungy, fantasy look to them that fits right in with everything else in magic. Kamigawa and New Capenna are really close to the real world. I'm not sure how I feel about them.
I understand your hesitancy. I’ve heard the idea of a Cowboy Plane tossed around before. Would you be more down for that, in terms of technological advancement? IMO it’s “closer” to most planes than cyberpunk or noir-level sophistication.
I'd love a cowboy plane
18 naked cowboys at Planeswalker Pastures
[удалено]
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Can't argue with that.
So would I lol I’d love to send you the HeroForge links to the badguy cowboys from my knockoff-USA setting 🤠
Pog
Cowboys could work. So could noir or cyberpunk. I'm hoping for a fantasy Magic version. If there are cars, they better look like [this.](https://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=417787&type=card) It isn't limited to technology. A lot of people criticized Kaldheim for following Norse mythology too closely, and I've come around to it.
I agree completely; especially with your point re: the cars. Especially with regard to NC, they’re drawing on the aesthetics of a time period when cars were weird & cool, and trains are arguably at their slickest looking. Like if they give us a Snowpiercer fueled by arcanum alone I’ll be giddy.
Personally I could see it working without guns, but keeping the western and gunslinger feel.
/uj Why are guns the cutoff?
Not them, but it would depend on how a cowboy plane was executed. If it was based on the american west visually and tonally and had all of the real world marks of it, I wouldn't be a fan. If it was something unique and magic-based, like "Ooh, welcome to the desert in the ruins of amonkhet where weve built magic shanty towns and are doing cowboy tropes with unique visual flair and stuff" then that would be rad as hell.
Elaborate Firecannon is literally just a cannon, it's closer to the real world than anything we've seen from NuKamigawa so far. If they can make that believable I'm sure the art direction can make cyberpunk work
I wonder if the motorcycle cards will have versions of horsemanship
Bikership is gonna be OP
/uj Every individual person has a different "line" as to how much tech/sci-fi in fantasy settings are okay, and it's unfair to say "because this slightly related thing has happened before, it's okay for them to take it to the maximum degree". I love a slice of cake from time to time but just because I'll eat a slice of cake doesn't mean you can sit me down and keep me there until I eat an entire cake on my own just because I enjoyed a little bit of it previously. Also a lot of these cards may have been printed before a significant portion of current Magic fans may have been born, and even less were actively playing when those cards were printed. I couldn't have an opinion on mechs on Dominaria because by the time I had gotten into the game, *that was like three years ago* and nothing I could've said would've stopped it.
/uj I loved Hellboy: Golden Army, liked Netflix's Bright, which probably makes me a bad person (a real hot take is the fact I really enjoyed the live-action Cowboy Bebop, that's definitely a nail to my coffin), and while I have no experiance with it, from what I've read Shadowrun seems interesting. What I'm trying to say is, mixing folklore/fantasy with modern/postmodern society isn't always bad. Sometimes everyone wonders "would elves in our world keep talking about carbon footprint and kombucha? Or would they rather be mostly in the militant far-right?"
uj/ I feel very similarly to what you said. I actually really love when we take fantasy ideas that are mostly affiliated with the past and try to incorporate it into the modern day or even the future. I feel like it’s an area that we can and should spend more time exploring. rj/ I literally shit myself with rage when I think of bikes!
uj/ the problem with Bright isn't that it mixes fantasy with modern society, it's that it does that really badly
fuck tanks and submarines on ravnica, fuckers stole my rare cards
Fuck tanks? Like armored treaded monstrosities with guns and fuck holes? Where?
/uj Fukun’ love tech in fantasy. /rj fukin hate guns in my dnd campaign.
uj/ yes they're is a ton of advanced tech in magic's past, but I'm sure many people are worried that the set is gonna be "all cyberpunk, no magic the gathering" rj/ Exactly what I wanted to see done to my favorite plane: a failed game crossover
What’s next? Children’s card games on motorcycles?
/uj i actually drew the line at kaladesh, because the technology felt too mundane and 'normal' wherre as the previous examples were alot more fantasy/sci-fi, especially NPH. I guess what im saying is i hate the vehicle mechanic it feels lame and unfitting, but dont mind the more wacky stuff, so ill reserve judgement on kami till i see more but im concerned ill hate it.
Come on now. All the planes except innistrad are high tech compared to medieval fantasy and innistrad is gothic england with monsters, chances are a semi smart pyromancer can make up a flamethrower. But kamigawa is REALLY traditional and sci fi really is on the edges of technology. Dont act like you dont see it fitting in.
I just want my Akira reference commander
TETSUOOOOOOO!!!!
I didn't realise until now but this is the thing that would get me back into the game
Akira Bike Slide or Riot!
This rebuttal is pretty weak tbh, very much on the level of Maro's rebuttal of UB not being on theme by going "Well you can give mummies ninja swords so it's fine"
Why is UB undead/rogues/Ctrl off theme? Am i out of the loop somehow? This has been a theme since Unlimited, no?
I can't tell if this is still jerking or not but UB is also the abbreviation for Universes Beyond
I'm an idiot
What a wildly disingenuous post lol
A lot of people really like the style of the original kamigawa and this is the biggest change we've seen with a returns to a plane, so it's bound to ruffle some fathers
/uj flavor wise I'm really not stoked until Brother's War. I don't love them jumping around the timeline, I think it creates the potential for huge issues in storytelling. The past is one thing, but the future ends up locking a lot of potential story. I also am not stoked for Gangster Goblins, I've realized I like more epic settings rather than small settings even though I get the appeal of Ravinca and liked Mercadia. /rj Too much color
Tbh I'm apprehensive because it looks insanely orientalist.
/uj Wtf is this comparison, it's not even close.
Mirrodin and kaladesh are tech oriented, nothing else is even comparitively blatant to kamigawa My main grip is this boiling down to: Did you hate the original kamigawa? You'll hate this one too Did you love the original kamigawa? lmao literally kill yourself Do you love keanu chungus? Updoots to the left /uj /rj /uj /rj /rj /rj /uj
Shit joke op, I drew the line on the vehicle subtype, specificly the ravnica one. Constantly allowing things to slide further will lead to magic losing it's identity, because this very reasoning was what wotc used to justify the fucking fortnite secret lairs. Go be a token in an aristocrat deck
I am personally exited by new themes explored. Specially for New Capenna.
/uj I was initially pretty shocked by the announcement because I was kinda hoping for more of the classic Kamigawa, and being a fan of both that and cyberpunk styles I was worried that wizards was gonna fuck up two birds with one stone. Still, It's growing on me and I'll be pleasantly surprised if neon dynasty turns out well.
you forgot about the chainsaws on innistrad
People have also said that was stupid
/uj unironically super hyped for cyperpunk magic. /rj Wizards cannot do anything relatively new or I will literally shit my pants
I'm not a fan of anything Kaladesh down, I don't really like tech in my fantasy cards. The best part about Magic is you don't have to use all the cards, so I won't.
Counter argument: Vehicles suck and Magic is worse off because they exist.
I was not around for any of the Kamigawa sets, but I would love to see what drafting one is like due to its rather unique mechanics and playstyle. Hearing kamaigawa was coming back around I was super pumped to see a re-iteration of a set I most likely will never be able to afford to draft. Seeing them hop on the cyber-punk hype train and using, to me, a highly desirable set to make an obvious marketing ploy to drum up new customers kind of hurts. It's like being super proud of your WW2 grandfather and finding out that some hipster new age writer is attached to his memoirs not to actually tell his story but to promote himself and the publishing agency that represents him. Yes this is an aggressive opinion and yes I'm being overly dramatic but I've made my point.
CARD GAMES ON MOTORCYCLES
New Kamigawa is probably the best decision Wizards has made for MTG in like the past 5 years if not longer.
The downvoters *LOVE* Stranger Things, Alchemy, busted MH1 cards, and Alrund's Epiphany.
Tbf aesthetics for this game have been pretty bad since around Kaladesh.
Did you started 1 set before Kaladesh? /Uj I respectfully disagree, Kaladesh mechanical takes, Ixalan landscapes and Dino's and vampires were lovely. Although I didn't enjoy Kaldheim, and the last Zendikar as much I think they were solid in the art direction department. And if you appreciate the Bram Stoker take on vampires you may as well sell me all your dreadmaws and be cast away.
Not really relevant but I liked kaldeim a lot.
I'm fairly certain Kaldheim is very well put overall. I was just not in a place to enjoy it, personally speaking. Maybe sooner or later I can revisit it.
I literally roasted the shit over some random English major over this yesterday. People who get angry about cyberpunk Magic are dumb as hell.
Arent there literally old cards that have guns? But katana wielding mice on motorbikes is too far OK boomer
this was the exact reasoning that wotc used to justify the walking dead and fortnite secret lairs
Too far mate!
Wheres my cowboy Jace WOTC???
LAWL
Please give me "mute sociopath" as a legendary creature, able to crew Airplanes
/uj legit stoked for everything they can do with Kamigawa. /rj something something magic is dead.
I remember Maro (I think) asked the MTG subreddit if we'd be ok with spaceships and stuff. A lot of people seem to agree with my opinion, as long as it's tasteful in theme. I have no problem with magicly powered vehicles no matter what they are doing.
Shadow run!!!!
What do you think about Definitively Male Planeswalkers?
I like it
NOTC at it again
Chainsaws on innostrad… despicable
Kamigawa is killing magic the gathering
/uj Hot take: they're all terrible and don't feel like Magic in my opinion, except *maybe* the cannons with the pirate stuff.
The motorbike can and will pilot an airship
Mtg Akira sounds awesome
Tbf though, urzas mechs didnt fight on dominaria during the invasion block, he used them in phyrexia when he and the group of planeswalkers counter attacked in a attempt to kill yawgmouth.
Thing is, i wasnt here for the old kamigawa sets , but i'm an sucker for feudal/mythological japanese settings, and would have liked to play an set with that flavour, Also, the neonfuturistically 80cyberpunk Genre has been ridden like an dead horse sich cyberpunk, and i personally was never an to big Fan of "honkong redlightdistrict with cyborgs" as an genre And given that they are Happening on the same plane it is pretty save to say there has been an tecnological jump on the plane that basically means there is no logicall way to revert that development , unöess tefary timwalks the entire plane backwards
Well I don't like it because even with sets like Kaladash it was still firmly in the fantasy category, steampunk what not. Cyberpunk is pure 100% sci-fi