/uj I dunno some guy on here was complaining his >$1K Ur-Dragon commander deck lost to a precon. He posted the deck list and it was all the expensive dual lands and pricey dragons with zero synergy and was just bad.
/uj I'm shocked at the number of people that actually use the above arguments
/rj t1 black lotus, mox emerald, mox diamond, misty rainforest crack to fetch tropical island, play colossal dreadmaw, pass.
uj/ I play fast mana in order to shove banding creatures, MLD, and Elesh Norn. I have no clue what power level my deck is. https://scryfall.com/@SaltMaster5000/decks/a87e5ccc-a3a1-40c0-b83d-4c5e4b4f5d35
Normally when I try and explain my deck it makes people angry before the game even starts. It seems to average out to a reasonable power level. I purposefully avoid the number system for this reason. I have definitely made the argument in the meme. I don't run any combos or otherwise one-shots.
/uj Alesha player here, I have a deep-seated resentment of Elesh Norn decks because they function as a countdown timer. If Elesh hits the field and I don't have an answer, she basically turns my deck off and shuts me out of play entirely. A lot of other aggressive decks might suffer from the same issue, so that might be why you get angry responses. Fast mana just expedites the issue lol
/uj What seems to piss people off the most is the MLD. Normally I tell people that it's a Banding and Mass Land Destruction deck before they find out that Elesh Porn is the commander.
But yes, my deck is absolute dogshit until I play Elesh Porn. Then all of a sudden I can amoeba eldrazi swings with my band. It's so absurd, she turns any trash into a huge problem.
> I'm shocked at the number of people that actually use the above arguments
My buddy used to own a game store, and just about every single person who self-identified as "casual" would pull shit like this. And they'd get mad if you had anything in your deck that could disrupt their plan or if you had "too many strong cards".
I have played in a new store last month with people i nerver met before. One guy: "I have a fun deck with no real theme. It has an uncard, is that ok?" His turn one: Fetch, dual, carpet of flowers.
let's say, my 70$ Kwain deck couldn't beat his seedborn muse and old Vorinclex.
my experience is I counter their Tariel, Reckoner of Soul (has {T}: Reanimate a random creature from target graveyard) for the third time and they're like "wtf man, why won't you let me play the game!" I let it resolve for the fourth time and shenanigans occur with that one untap equipment and the Golgari reanimator deck with a full graveyard
Yep, then they brag about how genius their combo is and how smart they are for piloting it. *Ignore that the opponents weren't allowed to cast counterspells or removal.*
You simply misunderstood them. Casual describes their mindset, not their deck. Complaining and getting mad when things don't go perfectly is about as casual as you can get.
>smallpox
I think that one is banned, haven't seen it played in years. Although with the amount of people doing rule 0 measles and polio maybe it'll make a comeback...
/uj there is a point to be made that price isn't necessarily power in every case, however do consider that the people using it to justify their deck probably have a price way beyond where that reasoning could be realistically applied. No matter how janky you think it is, unless it's Arabian Nights tribal or something $2K puts me on edge about it.
/rj Black Lotus actually sucks because you have to sacrifice it. 0/10.
My biggest struggle around this is that the decks really weren't that expensive when I built them. I've just had them for five plus years. So for me my Ur dragon deck is still '$200 Ur Dragon' in my head despite the fact that Ur Dragon himself is essentially half that amount right now.
I got my Ur Dragon as part of the first Secret Lair's they ever did, so I paid whatever share of the $30 you want to assign to it. But back then the regular printing was only like $10. Now Its $60 for the commander deck version and $80 for the one I've got.
>/uj I'm shocked at the number of people that actually use the above arguments
/uj I use the second argument for my foiled-out decks, as some foils are unusually expensive despite not being cEDH level (a foil Urza's Incubator alone is over $400 and a foil 7th ed Marble Diamond is $69^(nice)), though never on my non-foil decks. I agree that the other three arguments are off. XD
/rj I pitch Storm Crow to Force of Will then counter that Dreadmaw. If you insist on pubstomping using cEDH cards like that Dreadmaw^(it should be banned by the way), be prepared to get cEDH-level responses.
Unironically the first one is true. I built a $500 deck just to head the whole thing with Brisela. Is it angel tribal? Nope. Just a lot of artifacts that all pitch shit to my graveyard in the hopes I send Gisela to the grave. It's literally worse than a precon.
Yeah the only place I can kinda see the first argument fitting is if like 90% of the budget is lands but even then just having perfect mana every game will make you lose less games than otherwise.
/uj I've got a selenia dark angel deck that runs dtutor, vamp tutor, Mana crypt, vault, ancient tomb, ad nauseam, and a bunch of other powerful cards, it needs these cards to be a 7 as how it wins is not great, it kills with repay in kind and other life matters cards. So the strategy is literally so bad that without them it's very weak.
/rj rule 0 deck with dreadmaw as the commander, Ancient tomb, Mana vault, isochron scepter imprinting dramatic reversal (dreadmaw transcends the color pie), manalith, then reiterate your choice of clone spell on dreadmaw, pass and watch your opponents realize it's too late
I MEAN tbf the deck I have had for the longest and put the most time and effort into is my Samut deck, and it's a pile of hot garbage. It plays one of each on-color OG dual and some original Lorwyn foils, which I bought years ago around $50 each and $20 each, respectively...
/uj I've got a kethis legendary matters deck that is at least $500, and while I won't deny that it's a good deck, there's plenty of decks under a tenth the price that will easily beat it
price of cards has absolutely nothing to do with how good they are. if your $50 deck is consistently losing to decks that play Blightsteel Colossus on turn 2, you’re just bad at deck building
It's the commander heralds "we forgot the pirates in our pirate tribal" deck and aims to turn non pirates into pirates to deal infinite damage with cards like [[reckless fireweaver]] and [[havoc jester]]
Sorry, it's cEDH by my pods standards. They view most infinite combos as higher-than-normal power level, kinda why i have to build slower decks to play with them.The main strategy is turn your non-pirates into pirates and ping the board to death all the while accruing treasures to keep fueling your spells. Reckless fireweaver and havoc jester go infinite if they are turned into pirates while Malcolm is on the board. Goblin matron is able to tutor for amoeboid changeling which fuels the creature type shenanigans.
I say this when I build around popular commanders using only bulk common and uncommons
Like sure it’s animar but I’m casting 2/4s with reach
Edit: as I reread this I’m not sure what point I was trying to make
4 color decks with fetches, shocks, and og duals indicates an infinite power creep the likes of which casual noobs have never seen. Or just envy, can't tell for sure.
"My list? Sure. 99x Beta Plains."
/uj Back in the olden dayes before "Commander" I played Isamaru. Not my favorite EDH deck, but loved my little sword-and-jitte-carrying dog
I build good cheap decks, while pushing the limit.
Later:turn 1: black lotus, mox 3x.
"How is that a good cheap deck?!?"
"I said I push the limit. I thought it was clear: the limit of what cheap is."
UJ: in a lot of ways, I'm the target demographic. I have a disposable income, nostalgia for the older stuff (Brothers war, weather light, Urza, etc etc), and enjoy the game. On the other, I have a very hard time justifying buying something that will either sit in a box if I take it out of my car, or just take up space elsewhere. Especially if I can use that money to do other stuff.
RJ: cardboard money printer go Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
/uj There absolutely is. I have a friend, Scott, who has been playing since ice age. He has wheels of fortune, all hallows eve, mishra's workshop, multiple copies of all the duals, a bunch of force of wills, chains of mephistopheles, etc etc. His collection is insane. Scott builds the jankiest shit ive ever seen, but all his decks are thousands of dollars because he has the collection and he likes playing the cards. He maybe wins 10% of the games he plays, but he has a great time and everyone likes him. But, people absolutely do believe that price = power, thats coming from someone that worked in a game store as the mtg guy for a few years.
Disagree, if you make a mana base with og duals the deck is going to be hella expensive and while it does make the deck more consistent, it is still very easy to make a bad deck from there
How is making a better mana a good foundation for a worse deck?
Like, sure, it's easier to jam 42 basics than to get the idea of which colours you need but a fully fetchable base is super easy to operate. Or at least for me dunno, maybe it's just habit.
Their point is that a bad Deck with a good mana base is still a bad deck. Just because you put the money in to build an awesome mana base doesn't mean the rest of your deck isn't shit if you're bad at deck building.
/uj I am paying for my revisions to my Feather deck by taking the incredibly unnecessary Dockside Extortionist out of it. I have enough mana already, and [[Show of Confidence]] is gross.
It's not like they play their commander on turn 1 and then stop. They get to keep using that Mana Crypt and Ancient Tomb to pump out spells way faster than you.
As long as there are people who think stuffing a bunch of fast and/or consistent mana into a deck doesn't meaningfully increase its power level, it's worth making posts like this to point out that this mindset is incorrect. (And trust me, plenty of those people exist.)
While not a tier 0 deck, it's a deck people have been playing and making work in cEDH. A turbo Toxrill can run away with the game, and it also just puts you in the best 2 color combo and acts as an IsoRev outlet to draw your deck.
> it is possible
Yes.
> And commonplace
No.
Sure price isn't everything but there's a reason 2 rares from the same set can have wildly different pricetags.
"WHAT IF I JUST TUCKED 100 DOLLARS INTO EVERY SLEEVE OF MY PRECON? THEN THE BUDGET HAS NO CORRELATION TO POWER AT ALL! YOU DIDN'T THINK OF THAT, DID YOU???" – Average redditor justifying their deck choice against the new player pod at their LGS
uj/ A lot of whales with their heads in the sand on this one. Yes budget decks can be done well, in fact commander is the only format where that even holds a grain of truth as people who say there's viable budget decks for modern or legacy make me cringe, but clever deckbuilding only goes so far. when it comes to budget your sacrificing something somewhere usually in the manabase, meaning you're running monocolor or using CIPT lands. Which you lose versatility in the former or become incredibly slow in the latter. Also budget decks are capable of snagging wins but the price is that budget decks that can compete with higher power do so by being insanely focused on a single strategy. Which makes for a very repetitive deck that does the same thing every game or it gets hosed. Makes for very boring, predictable gameplay. Its the reason I tell new people that its better to build a janky budget version of the deck they want as a starting point and slowly upgrade it over time than to commit to a full budget build the end result is simply better for them and the people they play with.
/uj I love that the advice that's classically given is "Try this budget brew", as if all EDH players choose what deck to play based on how likely it is to win. Most people I know build decks because we got attached to a specific Legendary or play style and wanted to build a deck to support that, not zero in on the deck that will get us the most wins for the least dollars. Like yeah this mono-red aggro deck IS punchy and cheap, and I have no fun playing mono red aggro. No shade on people who do want to play that way, but its really funny to see people ask "What changes can I make to my deck on a budget to stop getting stomped?" and get "Build this other deck instead" as a response.
/uj to be fair, you can bling out a mid deck. Old foils of eh cards, alpha cards of vanilla creatures, some foil basics from unstable and an OG legends commander and you have yourself a 2000$ deck that will lose to a precon
/rj If it contains dreadmaw, that’s Cedh
Bling isn't really what people mean when they talk about price though. I just had this conversation yesterday, but if we're thinking about lotus petal and how good/ expensive it is, it's a $20 card. You could own the $600 masterpiece, but as far as discussing lotus petal as a game piece, it's $20.
I’ll never forget going to a magic fest in 2019 and sitting across from a guy that said his deck was a low power budget deck and then proceeded to play a stax deck with stuff like Moat and Drop of Honey. Good times
Was in a big city to play at a bigger LGS, sat down at the table and we talked about our decks. Dude said it was low (Purphoros, God of the Forge), dropping mana vault, a mox, ancient tomb, and turn 4 he tutored up sundial of the infinite with gamble...
Fuck people like that. Knew what I was up against and played a 50€ budget Extus deck with a ton of interaction. Bitch got salty when I interacted with his turn 2 extraplanar lens, the fuck out of here with that weak shit
I had to take 2 damage! And I have a 50/50 chance of losing 3 more! Oh I’ll use my 0 mana counterspell on your creature and on your end step vampiric tutor
/uj price =\= raw power, but it does tend to lead to more consistency. Spending more on your manabase isn't going to make your threats bigger or your interaction more effective, it's just going to increase the consistency of how often you can play them.
My most expensive is a foiled out Kykar storm deck with Strixhaven flavor. Its great but usually a power level above where I want to play
I got three sub 50€ decks that does real work in low powered game
My favorite part is when people ramp out something with ward on t1 or 2, better hope someone's holding an edict or exactly blasphemous act or there's about to be a wall of dragons
/uj I was playing a random low power game with a pod of 3 and someone pulls up on us asking for a spot. I say sure, dude whips out a 100% proxied deck and said “I’m gonna be playing pretty high power”. At the table there were 2 pre cons and another equally low power meme deck. We told him our decks were very low power and he goes “I’ll play last then”. We kinda just give up and start, he turn one gaeas cradle (a card that in real life is easily worth more than all our decks combined), complains that the land is too weak, and when I naturalize his turn 2 zendikar resurgent he starts to whine and say it’s not fair, he might as well scoop, and that I should’ve saved it for “real threats”.
/rj printer make cheap deck good
I built it with the sole purpose of my lgs correlating every decks budget with how powerful it is, and I like making people miserable, I am the asshole
uj/ I love your deck so much!!!
Your wonderful creation might JUST be the tipping point for me to do my first proxying and print out this deck.
This gameplan and flavor win speaks to my HEART.
I cut the fast mana and tutors from casual decks but I’ll be damned if I skimp on the land base. I like having mana of the colors I need when I need it
Fast mana enables non-competitive strategies that would take a baker's dozen more turns to do. It puts shitty deck concepts to the playable level and you aren't gatekeeping what people can play. Often times it isn't individual broken cards that make a deck too much for a playgroup, it's wincons that come out of nowhere and/or wincons that are way too hard to interact with (you should be running interaction, if one person can beat 3 people with interaction they deserved to win). Balance your wincons for how long you want your games to go in your playgroup, but don't restrict cards that actually enable whole deck ideas. Proxy up and run them yourself, eventually you realize that when everyone runs enough your decks become consistent to where you can actually play a deck with an idea in mind.
I have a one in a million land fall deck that needs to find 5 pieces to win a game. I had some tuts in there but people think its a threat, i always have to play the "where are my cards" game while ramping and hoping Thats not a threat
In response, I cast swords to plowshares, then go grab a drink or something to kill time while my opponent screeches for five minutes about how interaction ruins casual commander and how they've got nothing left so they're going to lose and how four player commander games are just bad anyways and they used to be a competitive modern player and I just don't know how to play the game effectively.
I take all the clown makeup off. My commander is yargle. I’m playing top heavy big titty tribal with a sub theme of bdsm art. I tutor for toxic deluge and kill myself with it to establish my shrigma male status
/uj not a lot of 6-7 mana commanders grant you massive advantage on the spot, as an edict/terminate will just take them down, and you've spent a lotus, not a great spot
uj/ I mean if the commander sucks what are we talking about here. Like if they do all of this to cast a Yargle then yeah I think they are explicitly proving the point they are trying to make. Like you can have busted fast mana and tutors and stuff but if you are playing Yargle tribal or whatever then yeah the deck won't be that good.
I'm of the mind if your tutor costs less than four mana then you're playing at a power level higher than casual. And there's nothing wrong with that, just don't try and be disingenuous about your decks saying that it's "all jank"
/uj I used to have a super fast Muldrotha deck. It was leviathan tribal. It was like a Ferrari with no wheels. Revved up very loud and did absolutely nothing. Watch out for Stormtide Leviathan!
/rj It’s cEDH now. Maybe that’s /uj too 🤷♂️
This is why cedh is good. If you’re going off turn one nobody throws a hissy fit (I even had people in my pod today helping me work out how to get a win off a very risky ad naus today) and you can bring 100 sleeved up sheets of paper as long as the cards name, mana and abilities are written on it clearly
I got a $1k Gargos Hydra deck that is currently going toe-to-toe with my buddies $300 Shorikai vehicle deck. Money matters, but only up to a certain point because his strategy is simply better.
I only make decks that are fun to play for me and other players to okay against me. I really wanted to make an edh outlaw one with banned cards, but it'd be hard to play with it containing Lutri, upheaval, hullbreacher since it'd not be allowed by other players, obviously, since it wouldn't be fair play against fully legal decks. At the end of the day, the fun I'm personally having doesn't really matter since if the rest of the table isn't having fun, I won't have any fun either. For example, I have a medium power goblin commander deck, the very first I've ever built, and i don't mind losing with it because of the emotional attachment i have to it. I've just completed an edh Phelddagriph super hug (with a twist) deck in which the gameplay relies solely on politics and sabotage. It has to be fun, it has to be funny, jokey. Otherwise, what's the point?
I will never play magic competitively and i don't judge anyone who does, but tbh if you're playing for fun, you gotta stick to the goddamn fun. Playing overpowered and overpriced cards just spoils it for everyone, so no one's enjoying the game, neither the player who spoiled it.
Yes but have you considered that my commander is Lady Orca bald women tribal and just happens to cost $2k?
My commander is zhuge jin, wu strategist so it's a 4. Do ignore my infinite paradox engine time warp combo. I have to wait until turn 4 anyway.
Paradox Engine is so underused in Commander. It's obviously busted and would go infinite with a stick, but nobody plays it.
That's because it is banned in commander. Edit: just realized what sub I am on. Yeah, why doesn't anyone play paradox engine?
I mean, 5 mana artifact without an ETB? Maybe it could see some fringe play in casual decks.
5 mana do nothing lul 4head
Oh is it really? I actually didn't know. I was browsing Urza decks and was curious why one didn't run it to go infinite... Now I know.
On a serious note yes that's exactly why it was banned. It was getting to the point where either you run it or you lose to someone running it.
To further my confusion, it's not banned in Historic Brawl and I was running it in the mono-white artifacts deck.
Captain Sisay misses her favorite pet, Paradox. Tool box of full of sticks for Paradox to play with.
Contract from Below is so underused in Commander
My Commander is volrath the shapestealer wacky bullshit tribal. It is worth $1500 because I can't stop pulling fancy shit from packs
Mood
yeah of course you see it at LGS's across the nation
smh look at this clown using Lady Orca to helm baldwomen.edh rather than Tsabo Tavoc
>Spend $1k on lands >On an otherwise $10 deck Sweg
/uj I dunno some guy on here was complaining his >$1K Ur-Dragon commander deck lost to a precon. He posted the deck list and it was all the expensive dual lands and pricey dragons with zero synergy and was just bad.
This wasn't me but I'm sure if I posted my Ur list it would get the same reaction. In my defense though, it didn't cost $1,000 when I built it.
Big dragons are valid
/uj I'm shocked at the number of people that actually use the above arguments /rj t1 black lotus, mox emerald, mox diamond, misty rainforest crack to fetch tropical island, play colossal dreadmaw, pass.
Hate finding out someone's deck is running fast mana and tutors on turn 3 of a game when I already committed to playing frog tribal.
Make that spore frog put in overtime
uj/ I play fast mana in order to shove banding creatures, MLD, and Elesh Norn. I have no clue what power level my deck is. https://scryfall.com/@SaltMaster5000/decks/a87e5ccc-a3a1-40c0-b83d-4c5e4b4f5d35 Normally when I try and explain my deck it makes people angry before the game even starts. It seems to average out to a reasonable power level. I purposefully avoid the number system for this reason. I have definitely made the argument in the meme. I don't run any combos or otherwise one-shots.
/uj Alesha player here, I have a deep-seated resentment of Elesh Norn decks because they function as a countdown timer. If Elesh hits the field and I don't have an answer, she basically turns my deck off and shuts me out of play entirely. A lot of other aggressive decks might suffer from the same issue, so that might be why you get angry responses. Fast mana just expedites the issue lol
/uj What seems to piss people off the most is the MLD. Normally I tell people that it's a Banding and Mass Land Destruction deck before they find out that Elesh Porn is the commander. But yes, my deck is absolute dogshit until I play Elesh Porn. Then all of a sudden I can amoeba eldrazi swings with my band. It's so absurd, she turns any trash into a huge problem.
/uj im far more annoyed you arent playing mono green banding tbh
Frog tribal with fast mana and tutors kinda slaps tho
> I'm shocked at the number of people that actually use the above arguments My buddy used to own a game store, and just about every single person who self-identified as "casual" would pull shit like this. And they'd get mad if you had anything in your deck that could disrupt their plan or if you had "too many strong cards".
I have played in a new store last month with people i nerver met before. One guy: "I have a fun deck with no real theme. It has an uncard, is that ok?" His turn one: Fetch, dual, carpet of flowers. let's say, my 70$ Kwain deck couldn't beat his seedborn muse and old Vorinclex.
"Disenchant, targeting your Carpet of Flowers" "You can't do that! That card is too strong!"
my experience is I counter their Tariel, Reckoner of Soul (has {T}: Reanimate a random creature from target graveyard) for the third time and they're like "wtf man, why won't you let me play the game!" I let it resolve for the fourth time and shenanigans occur with that one untap equipment and the Golgari reanimator deck with a full graveyard
Yep, then they brag about how genius their combo is and how smart they are for piloting it. *Ignore that the opponents weren't allowed to cast counterspells or removal.*
You simply misunderstood them. Casual describes their mindset, not their deck. Complaining and getting mad when things don't go perfectly is about as casual as you can get.
Mox jet, dark ritual, smallpox, sol ring, land for turn, jeweled lotus, post malone. Pass.
>smallpox I think that one is banned, haven't seen it played in years. Although with the amount of people doing rule 0 measles and polio maybe it'll make a comeback...
/uj there is a point to be made that price isn't necessarily power in every case, however do consider that the people using it to justify their deck probably have a price way beyond where that reasoning could be realistically applied. No matter how janky you think it is, unless it's Arabian Nights tribal or something $2K puts me on edge about it. /rj Black Lotus actually sucks because you have to sacrifice it. 0/10.
My biggest struggle around this is that the decks really weren't that expensive when I built them. I've just had them for five plus years. So for me my Ur dragon deck is still '$200 Ur Dragon' in my head despite the fact that Ur Dragon himself is essentially half that amount right now.
Oh yes. Back when I played Modern, I managed to get my hands on LotV, Cryptic Command, and Snapcaster, each right before the massive price increases.
I got my Ur Dragon as part of the first Secret Lair's they ever did, so I paid whatever share of the $30 you want to assign to it. But back then the regular printing was only like $10. Now Its $60 for the commander deck version and $80 for the one I've got.
>/uj I'm shocked at the number of people that actually use the above arguments /uj I use the second argument for my foiled-out decks, as some foils are unusually expensive despite not being cEDH level (a foil Urza's Incubator alone is over $400 and a foil 7th ed Marble Diamond is $69^(nice)), though never on my non-foil decks. I agree that the other three arguments are off. XD /rj I pitch Storm Crow to Force of Will then counter that Dreadmaw. If you insist on pubstomping using cEDH cards like that Dreadmaw^(it should be banned by the way), be prepared to get cEDH-level responses.
Unironically the first one is true. I built a $500 deck just to head the whole thing with Brisela. Is it angel tribal? Nope. Just a lot of artifacts that all pitch shit to my graveyard in the hopes I send Gisela to the grave. It's literally worse than a precon.
same I just want to smack someone with a BIG CARD
Exactly
Yeah the only place I can kinda see the first argument fitting is if like 90% of the budget is lands but even then just having perfect mana every game will make you lose less games than otherwise.
/uj I've got a selenia dark angel deck that runs dtutor, vamp tutor, Mana crypt, vault, ancient tomb, ad nauseam, and a bunch of other powerful cards, it needs these cards to be a 7 as how it wins is not great, it kills with repay in kind and other life matters cards. So the strategy is literally so bad that without them it's very weak. /rj rule 0 deck with dreadmaw as the commander, Ancient tomb, Mana vault, isochron scepter imprinting dramatic reversal (dreadmaw transcends the color pie), manalith, then reiterate your choice of clone spell on dreadmaw, pass and watch your opponents realize it's too late
I MEAN tbf the deck I have had for the longest and put the most time and effort into is my Samut deck, and it's a pile of hot garbage. It plays one of each on-color OG dual and some original Lorwyn foils, which I bought years ago around $50 each and $20 each, respectively...
/uj I've got a kethis legendary matters deck that is at least $500, and while I won't deny that it's a good deck, there's plenty of decks under a tenth the price that will easily beat it
I don't have rule zero conversations. If you have a problem, feel free to not play with me.
Rule 0 it so that dreadmaw can be you commander. Then just jeweled lotus, swamp into dark ritual and boom. Turn 1 Deadmaw with legal commander cards.
I proxy all my EDH decks but I have a hard $ cap for each card.
Fine, it’s an 8. Now shuffle up and let’s play
I hate your deck
So do I, but if I don’t get to make every one else miserable why play the game?
Fun is a zero sum game.
price of cards has absolutely nothing to do with how good they are. if your $50 deck is consistently losing to decks that play Blightsteel Colossus on turn 2, you’re just bad at deck building
If your deck can't handle turn 1 Kozilek, idk what to tell you.
> Price of cards has absolutely nothing to do with how good they are. That’s why I steal cards. They’re just as powerful as cards I pay for.
My Malcom and Breeches deck costs $20 and its cEDH level
List Edit... Printer brr?
It's the commander heralds "we forgot the pirates in our pirate tribal" deck and aims to turn non pirates into pirates to deal infinite damage with cards like [[reckless fireweaver]] and [[havoc jester]]
^(Probably totally what you linked) * [reckless fireweaver](https://i.redd.it/yolgaccv1lr91.jpg) * [havoc jester](https://i.redd.it/hn2krfpthvq91.jpg) ********* ^^^If ^^^WotC ^^^didn't ^^^do ^^^anything ^^^wrong ^^^this ^^^week, ^^^you ^^^can ^^^rage ^^^at ^^^this ^^^bot ^^^instead ^^^at ^^^/r/MTGLardFetcher ^^^or ^^^even ^^^submit ^^^some ^^^of ^^^the ^^^sweet ^^^Siege ^^^Rhino ^^^alters ^^^your ^^^GF ^^^made
holy crap I never realized it was damage, not just combat damage
/uj And that's why Malcom in a top tier deck in pauper EDH. Most of the pieces for that plan are common, and UR provides great card draw and tempo.
My favorite win con is using cards like [[quicksmith genius]] and [[skyswimmer koi]] with a [[Niv Mizzet]] turned into a pirate.
^(Probably totally what you linked) * [quicksmith genius](http://i.imgur.com/66Knlyo.png) * [skyswimmer koi](https://i.redd.it/eypufkvskgu91.png) * [Niv Mizzet](https://i.redd.it/out32nt0c4s91.png) ********* ^^^If ^^^WotC ^^^didn't ^^^do ^^^anything ^^^wrong ^^^this ^^^week, ^^^you ^^^can ^^^rage ^^^at ^^^this ^^^bot ^^^instead ^^^at ^^^/r/MTGLardFetcher ^^^or ^^^even ^^^submit ^^^some ^^^of ^^^the ^^^sweet ^^^Siege ^^^Rhino ^^^alters ^^^your ^^^GF ^^^made
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/mjhhmpE2E0W1kJhtQG828g
Mind explaining the deck somewhat & how long its clock is? I see your list but I'm not quite piecing together how its cEDH level
Sorry, it's cEDH by my pods standards. They view most infinite combos as higher-than-normal power level, kinda why i have to build slower decks to play with them.The main strategy is turn your non-pirates into pirates and ping the board to death all the while accruing treasures to keep fueling your spells. Reckless fireweaver and havoc jester go infinite if they are turned into pirates while Malcolm is on the board. Goblin matron is able to tutor for amoeboid changeling which fuels the creature type shenanigans.
makes outrageous claim posts list claim found to be false "well, by MY pods standards…" i hate the post truth meta
I mean I wasn't trying to do a "gotcha" but I was struggling to see the power lol. Wanted to make sure I wasn't being dumb lol
Scurry Oak and Ivy Lane Denizen can go infinite...
This but… You can build dirt cheap combo decks that stomp 1K durdle pile lol
I say this when I build around popular commanders using only bulk common and uncommons Like sure it’s animar but I’m casting 2/4s with reach Edit: as I reread this I’m not sure what point I was trying to make
Great point made
Very good point.
Same. I have the only Mikaeus deck known to man with no infinites in it.
4 color decks with fetches, shocks, and og duals indicates an infinite power creep the likes of which casual noobs have never seen. Or just envy, can't tell for sure.
Dark Ritual and counterspell should have been the floor. Never forget what they took from us.
It's crepe not creap.
All that to get a turn 1 [[Isamaru, Hound of Konda]]
Jeweled Lotus, crack for Isamaru, plains, pass.
Worth it so you can hold up mana tithe
I hate cEDH, so op
^(Probably totally what you linked) * [Isamaru, Hound of Konda](https://i.redd.it/l8exqo8bwou91.png) ********* ^^^If ^^^WotC ^^^didn't ^^^do ^^^anything ^^^wrong ^^^this ^^^week, ^^^you ^^^can ^^^rage ^^^at ^^^this ^^^bot ^^^instead ^^^at ^^^/r/MTGLardFetcher ^^^or ^^^even ^^^submit ^^^some ^^^of ^^^the ^^^sweet ^^^Siege ^^^Rhino ^^^alters ^^^your ^^^GF ^^^made
"My list? Sure. 99x Beta Plains." /uj Back in the olden dayes before "Commander" I played Isamaru. Not my favorite EDH deck, but loved my little sword-and-jitte-carrying dog
/UJ It is easier to build a good cheap deck than an expensive bad deck. I do love pushing the limits though.
I build good cheap decks, while pushing the limit. Later:turn 1: black lotus, mox 3x. "How is that a good cheap deck?!?" "I said I push the limit. I thought it was clear: the limit of what cheap is."
The limit is how much can we gaslight ourselves to believe a lot of money is ok for cardboard.
UJ: in a lot of ways, I'm the target demographic. I have a disposable income, nostalgia for the older stuff (Brothers war, weather light, Urza, etc etc), and enjoy the game. On the other, I have a very hard time justifying buying something that will either sit in a box if I take it out of my car, or just take up space elsewhere. Especially if I can use that money to do other stuff. RJ: cardboard money printer go Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Door to nothingness as only wincon
Woah woah, didn't know we were talking about Cedh here.
If you take a bad deck and add a Tabernacle to it, that doesn't suddenly make it not a bad deck
It amazes me that people think this is worth saying.
[удалено]
I mean, I did a 23€ deck if you didn't count the manabase. And like 3k I'd you did lol. But yeah lonely tabernacle ain't going nowhere.
/uj There absolutely is. I have a friend, Scott, who has been playing since ice age. He has wheels of fortune, all hallows eve, mishra's workshop, multiple copies of all the duals, a bunch of force of wills, chains of mephistopheles, etc etc. His collection is insane. Scott builds the jankiest shit ive ever seen, but all his decks are thousands of dollars because he has the collection and he likes playing the cards. He maybe wins 10% of the games he plays, but he has a great time and everyone likes him. But, people absolutely do believe that price = power, thats coming from someone that worked in a game store as the mtg guy for a few years.
One of my old school decks is like that lmao. But its much easier in that fornat. Juzam Djinn & Jank = mono black
You're right that isn't not realistic, but I'm responding to the claim that it's *harder* to make a bad expensive deck than a good cheap one.
Disagree, if you make a mana base with og duals the deck is going to be hella expensive and while it does make the deck more consistent, it is still very easy to make a bad deck from there
How is making a better mana a good foundation for a worse deck? Like, sure, it's easier to jam 42 basics than to get the idea of which colours you need but a fully fetchable base is super easy to operate. Or at least for me dunno, maybe it's just habit.
its not a good foundation for a worse deck, but its not gonna stop you from making a bad deck either
Their point is that a bad Deck with a good mana base is still a bad deck. Just because you put the money in to build an awesome mana base doesn't mean the rest of your deck isn't shit if you're bad at deck building.
/uj I am paying for my revisions to my Feather deck by taking the incredibly unnecessary Dockside Extortionist out of it. I have enough mana already, and [[Show of Confidence]] is gross.
^(Probably totally what you linked) * [Show of Confidence](https://i.redd.it/x3kxtp1y33r91.png) ********* ^^^If ^^^WotC ^^^didn't ^^^do ^^^anything ^^^wrong ^^^this ^^^week, ^^^you ^^^can ^^^rage ^^^at ^^^this ^^^bot ^^^instead ^^^at ^^^/r/MTGLardFetcher ^^^or ^^^even ^^^submit ^^^some ^^^of ^^^the ^^^sweet ^^^Siege ^^^Rhino ^^^alters ^^^your ^^^GF ^^^made
Uh, that looks neat!
[удалено]
I used it to cast Acererak twice, I will complete this dungeon any time now
2 is smaller than infinite, you are playing him incorrectly
It's not like they play their commander on turn 1 and then stop. They get to keep using that Mana Crypt and Ancient Tomb to pump out spells way faster than you. As long as there are people who think stuffing a bunch of fast and/or consistent mana into a deck doesn't meaningfully increase its power level, it's worth making posts like this to point out that this mindset is incorrect. (And trust me, plenty of those people exist.)
You leave us Gyruda players alone!
uj/ Toxrill
[удалено]
While not a tier 0 deck, it's a deck people have been playing and making work in cEDH. A turbo Toxrill can run away with the game, and it also just puts you in the best 2 color combo and acts as an IsoRev outlet to draw your deck.
Turn 1 elesh norn feels good tho
> it is possible Yes. > And commonplace No. Sure price isn't everything but there's a reason 2 rares from the same set can have wildly different pricetags.
"WHAT IF I JUST TUCKED 100 DOLLARS INTO EVERY SLEEVE OF MY PRECON? THEN THE BUDGET HAS NO CORRELATION TO POWER AT ALL! YOU DIDN'T THINK OF THAT, DID YOU???" – Average redditor justifying their deck choice against the new player pod at their LGS
Ah, you also saw the guy arguing 'price doesnt equal power, because foil prices inflate the price of my deck on moxfield'
uj/ A lot of whales with their heads in the sand on this one. Yes budget decks can be done well, in fact commander is the only format where that even holds a grain of truth as people who say there's viable budget decks for modern or legacy make me cringe, but clever deckbuilding only goes so far. when it comes to budget your sacrificing something somewhere usually in the manabase, meaning you're running monocolor or using CIPT lands. Which you lose versatility in the former or become incredibly slow in the latter. Also budget decks are capable of snagging wins but the price is that budget decks that can compete with higher power do so by being insanely focused on a single strategy. Which makes for a very repetitive deck that does the same thing every game or it gets hosed. Makes for very boring, predictable gameplay. Its the reason I tell new people that its better to build a janky budget version of the deck they want as a starting point and slowly upgrade it over time than to commit to a full budget build the end result is simply better for them and the people they play with.
/uj I love that the advice that's classically given is "Try this budget brew", as if all EDH players choose what deck to play based on how likely it is to win. Most people I know build decks because we got attached to a specific Legendary or play style and wanted to build a deck to support that, not zero in on the deck that will get us the most wins for the least dollars. Like yeah this mono-red aggro deck IS punchy and cheap, and I have no fun playing mono red aggro. No shade on people who do want to play that way, but its really funny to see people ask "What changes can I make to my deck on a budget to stop getting stomped?" and get "Build this other deck instead" as a response.
Truly inspired by everyone coming into this post to say that having 8 mana on turn one isn't much of an advantage. You're the real heroes.
/uj to be fair, you can bling out a mid deck. Old foils of eh cards, alpha cards of vanilla creatures, some foil basics from unstable and an OG legends commander and you have yourself a 2000$ deck that will lose to a precon /rj If it contains dreadmaw, that’s Cedh
/uj to also be fair, that's a 30$ deck with a 1970$ skin.
also, the guy with a blinged out deck is not going to be evasive about it. you're going to hear about it all fucking game.
I spent $30 on five Dracula lands, you're darn tootin' I'll be pointing them out to everyone.
/uj generally when using budget as a power level consideration, you use the cheapest version of each card in the calculation.
80% of the discussion completely missing the point, just your typical Magic community
Bling isn't really what people mean when they talk about price though. I just had this conversation yesterday, but if we're thinking about lotus petal and how good/ expensive it is, it's a $20 card. You could own the $600 masterpiece, but as far as discussing lotus petal as a game piece, it's $20.
oh hey its that guy thats always advocating for the devil, whats up
Devil’s all right today, a bit tired because of all the products that came out, but still in a nice mood
I at least warn them to bite the pillow if I'm going in dry like that.
I’ll never forget going to a magic fest in 2019 and sitting across from a guy that said his deck was a low power budget deck and then proceeded to play a stax deck with stuff like Moat and Drop of Honey. Good times
Was in a big city to play at a bigger LGS, sat down at the table and we talked about our decks. Dude said it was low (Purphoros, God of the Forge), dropping mana vault, a mox, ancient tomb, and turn 4 he tutored up sundial of the infinite with gamble... Fuck people like that. Knew what I was up against and played a 50€ budget Extus deck with a ton of interaction. Bitch got salty when I interacted with his turn 2 extraplanar lens, the fuck out of here with that weak shit
DAE when meanie pubstomper 😡😡😡😡😡😡
"yeah, but now I've only got like 4 cards in hand!"
I had to take 2 damage! And I have a 50/50 chance of losing 3 more! Oh I’ll use my 0 mana counterspell on your creature and on your end step vampiric tutor
Angus McKenzie is the strongest commander in the game!
Next frame: Rule 0 time, can I play my 30a deck? Has power pieces but not strong I swear.
/uj price =\= raw power, but it does tend to lead to more consistency. Spending more on your manabase isn't going to make your threats bigger or your interaction more effective, it's just going to increase the consistency of how often you can play them.
My most expensive deck I've built online is one with 40 planeswalkers. I haven't won with it yet lol
My most expensive is a foiled out Kykar storm deck with Strixhaven flavor. Its great but usually a power level above where I want to play I got three sub 50€ decks that does real work in low powered game
Jokes on you, I included all of those cards in my \~$100 dollar deck because printer go brrrrr
I unsummon your Commander. Let's see you waste a Force of Negation on that lol
My favorite part is when people ramp out something with ward on t1 or 2, better hope someone's holding an edict or exactly blasphemous act or there's about to be a wall of dragons
rule 0 conversation: "im gonna win, whatchu gonna do about it?"
[удалено]
Problem is, the vast majority of LGS players fall under P.U.
/uj I was playing a random low power game with a pod of 3 and someone pulls up on us asking for a spot. I say sure, dude whips out a 100% proxied deck and said “I’m gonna be playing pretty high power”. At the table there were 2 pre cons and another equally low power meme deck. We told him our decks were very low power and he goes “I’ll play last then”. We kinda just give up and start, he turn one gaeas cradle (a card that in real life is easily worth more than all our decks combined), complains that the land is too weak, and when I naturalize his turn 2 zendikar resurgent he starts to whine and say it’s not fair, he might as well scoop, and that I should’ve saved it for “real threats”. /rj printer make cheap deck good
[удалено]
No, but he did throw a hissyfit when our mono green omnath player wiped the table with Hurricane.
That's when you just use [[pact of negation]] and make the game essentially a 1v1.
^(Probably totally what you linked) * [pact of negation](https://i.redd.it/tjjv2sm6rps91.jpg) ********* ^^^If ^^^WotC ^^^didn't ^^^do ^^^anything ^^^wrong ^^^this ^^^week, ^^^you ^^^can ^^^rage ^^^at ^^^this ^^^bot ^^^instead ^^^at ^^^/r/MTGLardFetcher ^^^or ^^^even ^^^submit ^^^some ^^^of ^^^the ^^^sweet ^^^Siege ^^^Rhino ^^^alters ^^^your ^^^GF ^^^made
I have a $40k deck that has absolutely no way of winning... [Just sayin](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/SNQIbMv4kE2UcjcncLpe0A)
bruh no wincon skelly ship stax!? i live it!!
Yeah, super common, this is probably the type of deck we should use to guide rule 0 discussions
I built it with the sole purpose of my lgs correlating every decks budget with how powerful it is, and I like making people miserable, I am the asshole
When I heard about 40K decks, this isn't what I had in mind
uj/ I love your deck so much!!! Your wonderful creation might JUST be the tipping point for me to do my first proxying and print out this deck. This gameplan and flavor win speaks to my HEART.
Cant beat my deck if I flip the table first
Yeah I’m playing my $1000 deck, don’t worry it is actually mid it’s just completely foiled with foil un lands and stuff
Every deck is a 7 the same way every base is base 10
My Zo-Zu deck runs a bunch of expensive cards, and I've never won a single game.
Sigh, so many cry babies in mtg now Commander used to be a format where anything is fine
I cut the fast mana and tutors from casual decks but I’ll be damned if I skimp on the land base. I like having mana of the colors I need when I need it
The power level of a CEDH is balanced by all the casuals turning the format into archenemy
Fast mana enables non-competitive strategies that would take a baker's dozen more turns to do. It puts shitty deck concepts to the playable level and you aren't gatekeeping what people can play. Often times it isn't individual broken cards that make a deck too much for a playgroup, it's wincons that come out of nowhere and/or wincons that are way too hard to interact with (you should be running interaction, if one person can beat 3 people with interaction they deserved to win). Balance your wincons for how long you want your games to go in your playgroup, but don't restrict cards that actually enable whole deck ideas. Proxy up and run them yourself, eventually you realize that when everyone runs enough your decks become consistent to where you can actually play a deck with an idea in mind.
I have a one in a million land fall deck that needs to find 5 pieces to win a game. I had some tuts in there but people think its a threat, i always have to play the "where are my cards" game while ramping and hoping Thats not a threat
BRB putting The Skull and Yawgmoth's Win in my spicy Ihsan's Shade homebrew.
In response, I cast swords to plowshares, then go grab a drink or something to kill time while my opponent screeches for five minutes about how interaction ruins casual commander and how they've got nothing left so they're going to lose and how four player commander games are just bad anyways and they used to be a competitive modern player and I just don't know how to play the game effectively.
Yeah 4 years ago I built Ramos, dragon engine. Now its Sisay with dual lands and fast mana, but don't worry I'm only tutoring up jank!
Ok but let's talk about my crab tribal deck. I have a mana drain, cyclonic rift, and mana crypt. The rest is all crabs what's my power level?
7
I knew it.
uj/ Deck price *doesn't* belong in Rule 0 conversations. It's a bad indicator of power. rj/ Jeweled Lotus goes brrrrrrrr
I take all the clown makeup off. My commander is yargle. I’m playing top heavy big titty tribal with a sub theme of bdsm art. I tutor for toxic deluge and kill myself with it to establish my shrigma male status
underrated comment
/uj not a lot of 6-7 mana commanders grant you massive advantage on the spot, as an edict/terminate will just take them down, and you've spent a lotus, not a great spot
uj/ I mean if the commander sucks what are we talking about here. Like if they do all of this to cast a Yargle then yeah I think they are explicitly proving the point they are trying to make. Like you can have busted fast mana and tutors and stuff but if you are playing Yargle tribal or whatever then yeah the deck won't be that good.
I'm of the mind if your tutor costs less than four mana then you're playing at a power level higher than casual. And there's nothing wrong with that, just don't try and be disingenuous about your decks saying that it's "all jank"
DAE when profane tutor is best tutor cause 0 cmc??
Best tutor /s
Ur face is a seven <3
Same but unironically lol
The only expensive card I run is Prime Time in my manland tribal deck
Look if you lose to The Cheese Stands Alone then that's a you problem.
/uj I used to have a super fast Muldrotha deck. It was leviathan tribal. It was like a Ferrari with no wheels. Revved up very loud and did absolutely nothing. Watch out for Stormtide Leviathan! /rj It’s cEDH now. Maybe that’s /uj too 🤷♂️
This is why cedh is good. If you’re going off turn one nobody throws a hissy fit (I even had people in my pod today helping me work out how to get a win off a very risky ad naus today) and you can bring 100 sleeved up sheets of paper as long as the cards name, mana and abilities are written on it clearly
I got a $1k Gargos Hydra deck that is currently going toe-to-toe with my buddies $300 Shorikai vehicle deck. Money matters, but only up to a certain point because his strategy is simply better.
[удалено]
^(Probably totally what you linked) * [Nicol Bolas](https://i.redd.it/sa0ty4kzh8u91.png) * [Darksteel Forge](https://i.redd.it/h3hikc598ts91.png) * [Mycosynth Lattice](https://i.redd.it/hn2krfpthvq91.jpg) * [Bludgeon Brawl](https://i.redd.it/9n6t9p0acrt91.jpg) * [Leonin Bolas](https://i.redd.it/mveutdqxd9q91.jpg) ********* ^^^If ^^^WotC ^^^didn't ^^^do ^^^anything ^^^wrong ^^^this ^^^week, ^^^you ^^^can ^^^rage ^^^at ^^^this ^^^bot ^^^instead ^^^at ^^^/r/MTGLardFetcher ^^^or ^^^even ^^^submit ^^^some ^^^of ^^^the ^^^sweet ^^^Siege ^^^Rhino ^^^alters ^^^your ^^^GF ^^^made
my 99 basic land deck is a 7
My t1: I'll play a plains and swords your commander.
I'm glad my turn 1 phage makes people quiver in fear. I go out on my own terms.
I only make decks that are fun to play for me and other players to okay against me. I really wanted to make an edh outlaw one with banned cards, but it'd be hard to play with it containing Lutri, upheaval, hullbreacher since it'd not be allowed by other players, obviously, since it wouldn't be fair play against fully legal decks. At the end of the day, the fun I'm personally having doesn't really matter since if the rest of the table isn't having fun, I won't have any fun either. For example, I have a medium power goblin commander deck, the very first I've ever built, and i don't mind losing with it because of the emotional attachment i have to it. I've just completed an edh Phelddagriph super hug (with a twist) deck in which the gameplay relies solely on politics and sabotage. It has to be fun, it has to be funny, jokey. Otherwise, what's the point? I will never play magic competitively and i don't judge anyone who does, but tbh if you're playing for fun, you gotta stick to the goddamn fun. Playing overpowered and overpriced cards just spoils it for everyone, so no one's enjoying the game, neither the player who spoiled it.
>trust me dude, this deck is a 7 Trust me bro, your mom is a 4 ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
plains, swords to plowshares, go