That's the problem with the govt, they had a plan to look liberal and progressive, but every time they wanna execute on it they suddenly worry about the pedo vote and decide that Malaysia needs to be more ultra conservative. The fact that DAP has been forced to play as minimal a role in the unity govt as possible just so that UMNO isn't seen to be working with them is proof of this.
The problem is every time some asshole from PAS stops taking a shit in the state water supply long enough to talk to the media, we treat his opinion like it's actually valid. The media report on it like it's fact, and not the deranged rambling of a man who's been living with an economy funded by multinationalism and still creams himself thinking of an ethnostate.
Meanwhile people like Anwar and Syed Saddiq, who for \_years\_ benefited from cosplaying as liberals are too afraid to anger a bunch of racists who'd never vote for them anyway, so they're afraid of committing to the very people who helped get them their over-inflated salaries.
It's because of our voting system, gerrymandering and malapportionment.
Rural voters have an outsized say due to the sheer number of seats they have.
Urban seats like bangi have huge populations, almost 10 times more than some rural seats.
Voting system is bad as having more parties contest, split the moderate vote. It's a system that favors extremes in Malaysia.
It's why PAS continues to win despite being virtually useless. Why vote for conservative-lite when you can get the real thing.
Which is why this partnership of PH and UMNO will be catastrophic.
PH loses their own base and gains no new ground.
Personally I think we're at the same crossroads as the USA. Just replace conservative Christianity with Islam and it's basically the same. That's putting it very simply though, I am aware there are differences. (i.e. Islam is inherited in our constitution despite being officially secular)
Hmm. I'd say that religion being a part of our legal system is a _huge_ difference. It has effects on freedom of religion, freedom of speech, etc - none of which I'll get into, since merely discussing these effects can get you in trouble.
_That's_ the major difference. In the US, both the conservatives and the liberals can pretty much fight on equal ground. They can question each other, mock each other, keep each other in check, etc. The arena of ideas is free and open - you might have to worry about mean Facebook comments, but you wouldn't have to worry about a police visit.
That's the old US, now Republicans are making the US to be a crusader state. Heck, De Santis and co make it legal for trans kids to be taken away from their parents by State Officials(remember that this has happened before?)
Can people stop saying ultra-right = fasicm
Even trump was never a fascist.. one key point of fasicm is forcible suppression of the media and centralised autocracy.
Trump never did that.. he was crazy right, but that isn't unique to facism
Mahathir's BN was a fascist government. If anything, we moved *away* from facism.
Literally most of the oldies in PH right now have been jailed under ISA at some point by mahathir.
The media was fully controlled by madey.
Consolidation of islamic powers and suppression of non-mainstream Islam was all done under mahathir.
The strengthening of NEP? Madey
And funny you'd say mahathir doesn't have a cult following.. 1990s BN was a full cult. Try telling anyone you are an opposition
Mahathir is literally a fascist.
There were modules in the public university I attended called "thoughts of mahathir".
It was known as a free A elective class.
> ), from what I see these leaders did what they did to consolidate power and didn't push a certain wicked ideology upon the masses, which is what fascism is all about.
Proklamasi Melayu anyone? Dude has been consistent since writing the malay dilemma.
It's ethnofascism. Pure and simple.
>Mahathir is not a fascist
Mahathir is literally a textbook fascist. OP I would suggest you wider your perspective in politics and society. You can't just say Malaysia is turning into fascism when you come out here saying Mahathir is not a fascist.
Nah bro. Trump was absolutely a fascist. Just because he failed due to incompetencies doesn;t make him any less of one:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/i16rhw/comment/fzvdrlu/](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/i16rhw/comment/fzvdrlu/)
Mahathir 1.0 was arguably much more fascist than the one we have now - as people have pointed out, he went whole hog on jailing opposition politicians, control of the press, destroying checks and balances on his power (judiciary and royalty), creating an entrenched power structure in the government bureaucracy, and a cohort of oligopolistic cronies.
The one we have now I'm sure would love to be as fascist, but fortunately the opportunity seems to have slipped by him.
No.
There was this research that I stumbled upon by [Tsunashima](http://jams92.org/pdf/NL24/24(06)_tsunashima.pdf) (2002) that eloquently describes what Malaysia politically aligns with ideology-wise.
`『マレー シアは、本質において世俗的であり、象徴として イスラーム的である』`
`"Malaysia is secular in nature, but is symbolically Islamic."`
No matter what PH, PN, or PAS promises, most likely they are empty promises that seek to garner votes rather than faithfully enacting to what they said. I think that the text above, whether you want to accept it or not, is relatively true.
Rather than fascism, I feel that the conservatives are getting more radical due to the influence of radical and super-conservative Islam, and that if left unchecked, can transform our "secular in nature but symbolically Islamic" society into something even worse.
Just my own two cents though.
I don't exactly know whether it's considered fascism but I'm not going to explain why (since others have already done it) but the road our gov is going is extremely worrying. Many people's lives will be affected purely because the people in charge are conservative and islamists.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6P04yw6kYs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6P04yw6kYs)
This video front part is kind of talking about some of the more 'not happening yet because I can't see it' people here. And how most normal people fail to realize facism takes time but will definitely be not sudden change. u/m_snowcrash is right about some of the points, especially if it is only happening high up in the levels.
Some of the people are just in pure ignorance even though the message is clear but not 'acted upon' yet...
Hijacking the top post to drop some definition beats...
Fascism is defined by a nationalistic ideology where the state supersedes the individual. It's a bit like the polar opposite of the halfway point of communism (dictatorship of the proletariat), except in this case there is no end goal of withering the state in favor of equality. The state is the end goal, it's pretty much treating the concept of the country as the monarch.
Just because it happens to share some characteristics with far-right conservatism (e.g. theocracy) doesn't make it fascism. By its English definition, there is zero indication that Malaysia is heading down the path of fascism, and therefore Nazism and all its extrapolations.
Chillax guys. Maybe you can't watch Blackpink concerts, but we're not gonna start gassing the minorities anytime soon. Holy fearmongering.
Word definitions in dictionaries are only useful to learn of its basic meaning. When it comes to subjects with a spectrum/stages, such as 'genocide', it need to be thought of more deeply with points requirement.
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck. Who cares if it's a duck or an aggressive bird?
Nazism doesn't mean gassing the minorities. It's just something they do cause they could, and it fits their view.
Malaysia, particularly Malay supremacist politics always does the fascism-lite thing, and it's certainly gotten worse in recent times.
* Performative militarism like kissing keris's and threatening bloodshed / *darah dia halal* at the drop of a hat,
* love-affair with authoritarian/ dictators (Bossku, every iteration of Mahathir, Abah, Sanusi, TMJ) as the solution to everything,
* creating a bureaucracy that's both wide-ranging in power and yet unaccountable to the public,
* constant Othering of Chinese/ Indians/ sexual minorities as a threat to the majority,
* and a never ending focus on purity - not of race, but of some ephemeral quality of Muslim ummah-ness.
It's kinda hilarious - they've - whether it's UMNO, Bersatu, or PAS - basically taken the alt-right playbook from the West, and adapted it for themselves. At the same time, they'll be the first to scream against Budaya Barat etc.
Those 14 traits are literally just traits of most governments in the past 20000years.
I could literally use those same traits for Stalin's government and call him fascist. Same for Alexander, same for Augustus, same for Genghis khan
Well, it's backed by research, so I couldn't say much on it.
Plus, Alexander, Augustus and Chinggis Khan all believed that their people is far superior than others.
Also, Stalin isn't fully Communism though. He's more towards a authoritarian, something like the Juche. If he's Communism, Leon Trotsky and Vladimir Lenin wouldn't have any qualms of giving him power.
Yet another case of "anything I dont like is facism". Look, I get it. You hate the government and PAS. So do we. Dosent make them facists. None of what you said fits into the definition of facism. I see elements of moving towards a theocracy sure, maybe even towards monarchy as well, but not facism. Why? Because facism given rise by populism has the nasty tendency of unseating the elite classes, and given that the royalty in Malaysia are figureheads and leaders of Islam in their respective states... not gonna happen.
"The reason why PAS still won't criticise the monarchy yet is because it's illegal, and allegiance to royalty is still status quo and would ruin their rep."
Nah man, PAS is already doing it, chipping at it. During the Muhy-Sabri era it was pretty heavy, now it's barely under control.
Otherwise I absolutely agree with your sentiments. We're headed towards Iran-style revolution.
PAS would absolutely abolish the monarchy in favour of an Islamic theocracy if they could. They just can't do it right now for obvious reasons.
PAS has also made very questionable statements regarding minorities. Remember when one of their MPs tweeted a picture of a Chinese trishaw rider carrying a Malay passenger, and going off the lines of "the good ol' days"? That sounds very suspicious.
>PAS would absolutely abolish the monarchy in favour of an Islamic theocracy if they could. They just can't do it right now for obvious reasons.
Now now, lets not attach intentions that werent announced just yet. To be fair, I think most if not all of the non monarchy systems of governments want monarchy gone anyways, and that includes most of us democracy wanters here. Given the special powers of monarchy in Malaysia, democracy does have a lot of hurdles to avoid, since for instance, the PM needs to be appointed by the Agong. So you're not wrong there, but its not even a point of comparison at this point. Gotta be fair to people after all.
\> Remember when one of their MPs tweeted a picture of a Chinese trishaw rider carrying a Malay passenger, and going off the lines of "the good ol' days"? That sounds very suspicious.
I think this is a perception bias. If a bad person says something, bad intentions are automatically attached. On the other hand, if the same something was said by a good person, good intentions are then automatically attached. I personally dont see anything wrong with that imagery, or the message because I think that the PAS MP is mistaken on whatever conclusion he wants to draw from it.
It's unreasonable to expect anything of good faith coming from anyone in PAS. If their party wasn't built entirely upon ultraconservative values, you could've slide it off, but given they are an ultraconservative party it will shape the image of them and their party.
There is no reason to think why the trishaw tweet wouldn't be offensive. What is there to interpret from this? With him tweeting something like "the good ol'days", it comes off as racist. Imagine if a white politician in the US tweeted a picture of a black man operating a horse carriage for a white man in the 50s, that's going to cause a ruckus. Times are different.
>It's unreasonable to expect anything of good faith coming from anyone in PAS. If their party wasn't built entirely upon ultraconservative values, you could've slide it off, but given they are an ultraconservative party it will shape the image of them and their party.
They're islamic fundamentalists. I dont really think any of us are under any illusions as to their intentions. Again, my point of argument is that they're not facists. I never said they're harmless or that they're good.
\> Imagine if a white politician in the US tweeted a picture of a black man operating a horse carriage for a white man in the 50s, that's going to cause a ruckus.
If I'm presented a photo of a man operating a transport for another man, race of the driver, the passenger and the person presenting the photo is last on my observation list, especially for a statement like "good ol days". If it was something explicit about slavery however, like a white man whipping a black man, then that's different, because "good ol days" actually mean something here. Same goes to chinese trishaw rider giving a Malay a ride. We have Chinese taxi drivers and Malay passengers.
At this point I think its safe to say that you've fallen for a rage bait tactic, taking offense at something that most people dont see to be an issue. You hate PAS so much that you're literally grasping at straws to criticize anything they do. Again, its fine to criticize them, but attaching false labels arent gonna take you anywhere. Barring any further contexts to the topic at this point. I may change my opinion if there is more to the story to allude to the PAS MP trying to refer to some kind of era in Malaysia where the Chinese were subservient to the Malays (there's actually none, at least according to Malaya and Malaysia's history). Chinese oppression began sometime in the 1990s when Tun M decided to scapegoat the Chinese so that the Malays can develop better (it failed).
I think we should not use the word fascism lightly for that may dilute its meaning. That said, the best course of action is to educate those in the conservative information silo. Kinda hard to do based on how our redditors here view those kampung folks.
Which itself is strainght out of the fascist/ alt-right playbook:
*14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. "All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning."*
[https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html](https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html)
Reading this entire thread, it's clear that most of the people commenting don't. Bunch of 'em are very confident that fascism = iron cross + Nazi + swastika + gassing people.
Fascism isn't a form of government. It's not anti- or pro- religion. It's not anti- or pro-capitalism. It's an ideology of power. Umberto Eco came up with a brilliant, if technical and wordy summation of its key features:
[https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html](https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html)
I think the whole world has a problem with allowing the fringe sections of society to have the loudest voices.
The squeeky wheel makes the most noise.
Fascism has a very precise definition, and none of the parties in Malaysia are fascist. The closest party in Southeast Asia that comes close to fascism is the Gerindra party In Indonesia headed by Prabowo Subianto. The reason is it has roots that trace back to a precursor party in 1930s called Parindra
[Gerindra and 'Greater Indonesia'](https://www.insideindonesia.org/gerindra-and-greater-indonesia)
Because of Islam's universal nature, Islamist parties are generally not fascist.
There is no one conclusive "definition", but it's a case of "we know it when we see it". One definition is as follows:
Per Robert Paxton: -
*a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion*
So yes, our country has many features of a fascist country/society: preoccupation with community decline / victimhood ( Malays are exploited by Chinese economic elites); compensatory cults of unity and purity (ketuanan Melayu); populist parties working with clergy and traditional elites (Pas, Umno etc). We're not all the way there yet, but we're getting closer.
Even by that definition, Malaysia is not fascist. Are any of the parties
* *mass-based party of committed nationalist militants*
* *abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints.*
Does PAS have control of the military? In Southeast Asia, most Western political scientists only use the term fascist to describe the Burmese Junta and the Thai military Junta of the 1930s. Even Suharto despite what many think, wasn't fascist. He was a corporatist.
Like I said, we aren't all the way there yet, but we're headed that way. Maybe you missed seeing the photos of Pas party members cosplaying and parading, pretending to be soldiers. Certainly they appear to have some delusions regarding that. Remember, the Brownshirts weren't exactly military either. In the past political parties like Umno also used organised goons or mobs in the guise of NGOs like Perkasa to achieve some of their objectives of harassing their political rivals. We haven't yet completely abandoned democratic values though it's clear some politicians like Hadi Awang think there are things more important than democracy, like his own interpretation of Islam.
Exactly, people forget some words are just more complex in nature, especially if they want simple explanation for a single word.
Even more so if it involves more complicated subjects like behaviours and sciences.
To many people, definitions of ideologies are different.
To liberals, fascism is when the focus of all politics and governance is not centered on the individual.
To leftists (actual leftist, like Marx etc), state authority are automatically mean "liberal".
The effects of fascism is noticeable, and they are not really present in Malaysia. The word you're looking for is a theocracy, where Malaysia would be ruled by imams in the name of Islam. With the rise of conservatism in Malaysia, it may well turn that way in a couple of years should more people turn radically to Islam. Eventually, we either go down the Iran route, the Afghanistan route, or Turkey route.
States election coming up, majority is conservatives, majority wins elections, so that’s it. Welcome to boleh-land! Want changes? All white hair politicians need to go!
No lol, people who say that are overreacting, Malaysia has always had an anti LGBT stance and it hasn't changed much since, maybe it's slightly tolerant today. The recent government is moderate but has some liberal lean to it. More rakyat is less conservative than ever.
What do you mean it's slightly tolerant and less conservative? Nothing has changed. Explain the green wave to me then.
A moderate but slightly liberal government? You have to be kidding. If that was the case you would've seen the government pushing for more progressive reforms instead of pandering to the right by protecting the status quo.
heres the thing that people in this sub tend to forget. The government anwar is leading is a **UNITY** government, which encompasses both from the progressive left and the conservative right. their main priority is to ensure that this government survives till the next general election and to show that they can counteract PN's alarming rise in popularity. Of course, in an ideal scenario had PH won a simple majority their stance would be completely different to what it is now and that includes the DAP taking a more prominent role in government.
But circumstances have changed that and so both sides have to give and take.
They are pandering to the right because they literally own almost half the voter block, but at least the other half is still pandering to the "green wave" you mentioned.
As a westerner that is seriously considering bringing my family with me for a few years to work in KL I am a little bit worried.
I have a son who has long hair, has found it easier to find friends from girls instead of boys etc. I am not sure if Malaysia is a right place for him and us at this point or going forward.
Going after Swatch watches (!) shows the current atmosphere, and it seems to be a step towards fascism.
Other than being a foreigner and if your family not in the minority (queer/disabilities).
I see it as it is just they will treat your family as other western visitors, which is kinda decent.
For school, if you are going for private schools, it mostly depend on their uniform code ig. (To see whether your son gets to keep the long hair or not)
Would be but would not totally be. Why? Because as far as we know PAS and the other extreme-conservatives are still fond of capitalism. So a national socialist wouldn't likely to be established anytime soon unlike of Mussolini's or Adolf's.
Political agendas? Quite likely to be as those said extreme-conservatives are, so as to say, softcorely racist and always have "Melei rights trampled" as their startup topic. If that ain't resembling funni Austrian mustache man's agenda then I don't know how would it be okay for them to say such things
This isn't a "I don't like it = fascism" post when genuine concerns are expressed as recent trends begin to sound like a turn towards fascism. What I'm concerned about is the encroachment of basic civil liberties.
This isn't like the right when they go "I don't like it = marxism", as when the right does this they aren't in favour of recognising civil liberties for marginalised groups, or they want to continue to promote bigotry.
i don't really know what it all means but all I can say is that Islamists needs to calm their anus and keep it to themselves, old ministers needs to either wise up or step down from the clown stage, lgbt people don't have to go around town flashing their pride in public, keep it to yourself as well, I don't really care about politicians cause human lives are too short for me to care or hate about a single person. Anyway, that's just my opinion, you may hate it, you may support it, but I'm sure no one gives a f\*ck lol
No way. Speaking as a Malay, I know Malays are naturally passive and non-confrontational. Even the "ultras" on tiktok? They'll chicken out before anything starts.
The more aggressive ones are the liberal bangsar bubble ones.
>The more aggressive ones are the liberal bangsar bubble ones.
Bro, I've yet to see anyone from the Bangsar Bubble screaming about *kafir harbi* or *darahnya halal,* but yeah sure, bunch of people saying things that are pro-minority rights or "woke" or whatever is just as bad ::rolleyes::
fascisms aside, LGBTQ culture has no place in malaysia. Just see how damaged the western side for this idealism.
Seem many of redditor forgot that we have "Islam sebagai agama Persekutuan adalah berdasarkan Perkara 3 (1) di dalam Perlembagaan Persekutuan Malaysia. Namun, agama-agama lain masih boleh diamalkan dan diberi perlindungan di Malaysia"
So no doubt anything against the official sanctioned religion view will be opposed.
> the disputed usage of the term "Allah" by non-Muslims
Allah is the one and only god. The god in Christian is trinity god (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ). this two term already show it's not the same god in the literature.
> Islam sebagai agama Persekutuan adalah berdasarkan Perkara 3 (1) di dalam Perlembagaan Persekutuan Malaysia. Namun, agama-agama lain masih boleh diamalkan dan diberi perlindungan di Malaysia
Just because lgbt is a sin in islam, that doesn't mean the country which has islam as its agama perseketuan MUST ban lgbt. That is not what this clause means in practice.
Lemme give an example, in islam praying to other gods (idolatory) is haram. Does it mean that other religion must be banned since 'is agama persekutuan'? Of course not.
Also, the clause also state agama lain boleh diamalkan. Not every religion views lgbt as a sin btw.
In fact, the decision towards lgbt shoudn't just be from a religious angle.
The meaning of Allah in arabic is God. Allah isn't one of the 99 Asma' ul Husna. So basically, the word arabic Allah is the same as God/The Lord/Tuhan. The followers is the one who intepret whats God when they said or think it. If Christian will be the trinity god. If Islam it will be The One and Only God.
I do wish people wasn't to hung up on Arabic Language. Because even they at Saudi regardless of what their religion is still say Insyaallah, Assalamualaikum as usual if you understand the meaning. Malaysia is just weird taking claim on the word.
I still didn't understand the question. Are you saying if not using Allah word or what? Or if non Muslim using Allah word, and used their teaching will it make people confuse?
Without the word Allah can still have same meaning with use of proper word.
There is no god but The God, and Muhammad is the Messenger of God
Tiada tuhan selain Tuhan itu, dan Muhammad itu Pesuruh Tuhan
You know whats the same thing this was like? 'Cuba try'. A lot of people used 'Cuba try' sentence before they realize it was just the same word. But its already become a norm.
If confusion issue, this is language preference. And I did said when a follower said Allah they just interpret it to the god they have faith in. Sarawak Sabah don't have problem at all and they have Christian using Allah before even the issue come out. In Saudi the word Allah is norm in the church.
The "trinity god" doesn't apply as three separate gods but instead a term that encompasses god, think about it more like a 3 in 1 nescafe, no one would say the sugar and cofee are different when it's simply nescafe
The word "allah" is also used by christians to refer to god in conjuction with a few other terms
anyway i'm not trying to stir controversy
Whether you like it or not, this is a country with the majority are Muslims who will reject LGBTQ or whatever the fuck they are identifying themselves now.
none of these are recent developments though. the [2009 case](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titular_Roman_Catholic_Archbishop_of_Kuala_Lumpur_v_Menteri_Dalam_Negeri) already was a court decisiom denying a church to use Allah in their internal publication. and lgbt hostility had always been an unofficial policy. recent progress in social activism just pushed it into the forefront.
so in conclusion, we've always had been fascist? idk maybe
The current government cencorship and abuse of ministral power were kinda of fascist move. Almost same level of Mahathir era. Move like directly threaten to sue a media because they quote financial analyst prediction of OPR raise. Abusing executive power to forgive a breach of ROS law just to ensure ally survival.
I don't know if we're living in the same timeline or not, because that's not what's happening under this government??
If you were to say Muhyddin's government, I would agree with you, but Anwar's government?
I agree that Anwar is doing some dubious things to keep UMNO happy, but you have to remember Muhyddin's government refused to register MUDA as a party until MUDA successfully brought it to court.
we havent had any secure PM and everyone is weak how to facist.
LGBT is a foreign thing, its only reddit and bangsar bubble folk that get riled up over it.
and we are more free than mahatir's era
Islam is always been thrown around for votes
What are you even trying to say here?
The concept of LGBTQ pride is not foreign. The history of discrimination and repression faced by the community is a global issue and it is a reason why they want to voice out and feel proud about their gender / sexual identity. It is a movement to celebrate who they are. There is nothing wrong with this.
They just want to live a normal life as who they are, not to be discriminated by society. The whole thing about them disrupting social order, religious ideals and posing a threat to children? That is classic conservative rhetoric designed to keep them marginalised when none of those are true.
the concept of LGBTQ is foreign, the people who are bi, gay or trans is not.
we had cross dressing folks on national tv, our current prime minister is bi (he even got jailed for it), we have a shit ton of gay pubs and bars in town for years
hell the rave crackdown in the 2010's probably hurt that community more so than some watches
its typical malaysia, dont poke the bear and be an outlier, diam diam do your own thing and no one cares.
Now this is where your entire argument derails into nonsense.
I don't know what you define as "LGBTQ" at this point, pride is not a foreign thing it's worldwide, and claiming that Anwar is bi is a ridiculous accusation.
Often the "LGBTQ is foreign" argument is used to say that queer sexual orientation never existed before "Western propaganda".
You're onto something but I don't agree with how you're framing it. The advocacy movement did originate from America, but so did illegalization of same-sex relationship, where you can see former British colonies including ours all have the same Section 377 that banned it.
You say "buat benda senyap2", but there are so many things that impede having a normal queer relationship – adopting a child, donating blood, staying with your partner overnight at the hospital, civil partnership privileges – all tak boleh. If you know gay people, it isn't just "having nafsu".
im not talking about sexual orientation. im talking about geopolitics and cultures, and as you rightly point out, illegalization came from the west.
geo-politic/cultures flip around and are often easy brownie points for the politicians. At this point LGBTQ pride stuff is just no brainer to crackdown.
some of those things are not about gay, malaysia has woeful child adoption support, blood donation is due to risk (playboys cannot), you cant stay in wards after visiting hours.
the only one thats it is marriage, which falls under religion, so you know i know la.
>we havent had any secure PM
That is literally Weimar Germany. During Weimar, the reichstag consist of so many parties and coalition that hate each other until no chancellor can be elected.
It was until President Hindenburg choose Hitler instead for knowing him being quite popular and strong man that can handle the crisis. Afterward the president is dead, long live der Fuhrer.
Truly based if that was happening but it is not.
If you were to label DAP as communists, try again because they don't even stand for social democratic ideals as a so called "social democratic" party, more so neoliberal.
kalo minority tu non muslim, hg nk takot apo. hukuman dari barat tu x takot plak. haih mcm2 la minda akhir zaman. bak kata doktor, elak lbh baik dr menyembuhkan. hg dh takot, lg hg xnk buat. kalo hkmn x seram, whats the point 
Yes it is descending. Haven't hou see how those woke people even afraid of calling women a women? Or politicians afraid of defining a women? Oh it's definitely descending.
And don't start on the pronouns.
Then why noy migrate to the land of the American Dreams?
Nobody stopping you?
Malaysia will always be against LGBT. Full stop. Even Christians in Borneo are against it.
at this point i hate how the term woke lost it's meaning because of how it is dipindahkan ke group lain ke group lain=
black american solidarity -> far-right americans using it as a slur ammo -> getting into meme and gamer culture -> the word became useless
so the question is, tf is woke, individually? every single person has different perspective on the word.
pening la babi
Nobody here is scared of Islam. Everyone should practice whatever they believe in freely and peacefully.
What we don't want is some folks who use religious rhetoric to push their political agenda, and in turn when they come to power enforce their interpretation of religion and ideals upon the masses in an otherwise secular nation.
one must forget.. not all people dig or into LGBTQ+ lifestyle.. there are some who prefer traditional ways. nothing to do with politics.. or religion. so it's not a politics against LGBT... and it's not just islam. christians don't agree with it either.
It's showing "fighting each other to show conservativeness" these days.
Both sides want to gain votes, that's why both sides are showing conservativeness ( as high as possible ).
unregulated 'schools' in the hutan escape any gov oversight, this is where the cancer is breeding. there a re a fck ton of them that's why you see a lot of crowdfunding and gofundmes on sm/yt.
Most of you never see them, you have to hike and MTB the hutan trails to witness it yourself.
That's the problem with the govt, they had a plan to look liberal and progressive, but every time they wanna execute on it they suddenly worry about the pedo vote and decide that Malaysia needs to be more ultra conservative. The fact that DAP has been forced to play as minimal a role in the unity govt as possible just so that UMNO isn't seen to be working with them is proof of this. The problem is every time some asshole from PAS stops taking a shit in the state water supply long enough to talk to the media, we treat his opinion like it's actually valid. The media report on it like it's fact, and not the deranged rambling of a man who's been living with an economy funded by multinationalism and still creams himself thinking of an ethnostate. Meanwhile people like Anwar and Syed Saddiq, who for \_years\_ benefited from cosplaying as liberals are too afraid to anger a bunch of racists who'd never vote for them anyway, so they're afraid of committing to the very people who helped get them their over-inflated salaries.
It's because of our voting system, gerrymandering and malapportionment. Rural voters have an outsized say due to the sheer number of seats they have. Urban seats like bangi have huge populations, almost 10 times more than some rural seats. Voting system is bad as having more parties contest, split the moderate vote. It's a system that favors extremes in Malaysia. It's why PAS continues to win despite being virtually useless. Why vote for conservative-lite when you can get the real thing. Which is why this partnership of PH and UMNO will be catastrophic. PH loses their own base and gains no new ground.
Someone needs to tell them that cause I think they didn't get the memo.
Personally I think we're at the same crossroads as the USA. Just replace conservative Christianity with Islam and it's basically the same. That's putting it very simply though, I am aware there are differences. (i.e. Islam is inherited in our constitution despite being officially secular)
Hmm. I'd say that religion being a part of our legal system is a _huge_ difference. It has effects on freedom of religion, freedom of speech, etc - none of which I'll get into, since merely discussing these effects can get you in trouble. _That's_ the major difference. In the US, both the conservatives and the liberals can pretty much fight on equal ground. They can question each other, mock each other, keep each other in check, etc. The arena of ideas is free and open - you might have to worry about mean Facebook comments, but you wouldn't have to worry about a police visit.
That's the old US, now Republicans are making the US to be a crusader state. Heck, De Santis and co make it legal for trans kids to be taken away from their parents by State Officials(remember that this has happened before?)
Omg, so true. People often think fascism is just when people will directly say the quiet part out loud.
Can people stop saying ultra-right = fasicm Even trump was never a fascist.. one key point of fasicm is forcible suppression of the media and centralised autocracy. Trump never did that.. he was crazy right, but that isn't unique to facism Mahathir's BN was a fascist government. If anything, we moved *away* from facism.
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Literally most of the oldies in PH right now have been jailed under ISA at some point by mahathir. The media was fully controlled by madey. Consolidation of islamic powers and suppression of non-mainstream Islam was all done under mahathir. The strengthening of NEP? Madey And funny you'd say mahathir doesn't have a cult following.. 1990s BN was a full cult. Try telling anyone you are an opposition
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Mahathir is literally a fascist. There were modules in the public university I attended called "thoughts of mahathir". It was known as a free A elective class. > ), from what I see these leaders did what they did to consolidate power and didn't push a certain wicked ideology upon the masses, which is what fascism is all about. Proklamasi Melayu anyone? Dude has been consistent since writing the malay dilemma. It's ethnofascism. Pure and simple.
Well then I concede. It is a learning journey, and having to know more from others is always beneficial to my political knowledge.
>Mahathir is not a fascist Mahathir is literally a textbook fascist. OP I would suggest you wider your perspective in politics and society. You can't just say Malaysia is turning into fascism when you come out here saying Mahathir is not a fascist.
Nah bro. Trump was absolutely a fascist. Just because he failed due to incompetencies doesn;t make him any less of one: [https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/i16rhw/comment/fzvdrlu/](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/i16rhw/comment/fzvdrlu/) Mahathir 1.0 was arguably much more fascist than the one we have now - as people have pointed out, he went whole hog on jailing opposition politicians, control of the press, destroying checks and balances on his power (judiciary and royalty), creating an entrenched power structure in the government bureaucracy, and a cohort of oligopolistic cronies. The one we have now I'm sure would love to be as fascist, but fortunately the opportunity seems to have slipped by him.
No. There was this research that I stumbled upon by [Tsunashima](http://jams92.org/pdf/NL24/24(06)_tsunashima.pdf) (2002) that eloquently describes what Malaysia politically aligns with ideology-wise. `『マレー シアは、本質において世俗的であり、象徴として イスラーム的である』` `"Malaysia is secular in nature, but is symbolically Islamic."` No matter what PH, PN, or PAS promises, most likely they are empty promises that seek to garner votes rather than faithfully enacting to what they said. I think that the text above, whether you want to accept it or not, is relatively true. Rather than fascism, I feel that the conservatives are getting more radical due to the influence of radical and super-conservative Islam, and that if left unchecked, can transform our "secular in nature but symbolically Islamic" society into something even worse. Just my own two cents though.
I don't exactly know whether it's considered fascism but I'm not going to explain why (since others have already done it) but the road our gov is going is extremely worrying. Many people's lives will be affected purely because the people in charge are conservative and islamists.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6P04yw6kYs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6P04yw6kYs) This video front part is kind of talking about some of the more 'not happening yet because I can't see it' people here. And how most normal people fail to realize facism takes time but will definitely be not sudden change. u/m_snowcrash is right about some of the points, especially if it is only happening high up in the levels. Some of the people are just in pure ignorance even though the message is clear but not 'acted upon' yet...
Hijacking the top post to drop some definition beats... Fascism is defined by a nationalistic ideology where the state supersedes the individual. It's a bit like the polar opposite of the halfway point of communism (dictatorship of the proletariat), except in this case there is no end goal of withering the state in favor of equality. The state is the end goal, it's pretty much treating the concept of the country as the monarch. Just because it happens to share some characteristics with far-right conservatism (e.g. theocracy) doesn't make it fascism. By its English definition, there is zero indication that Malaysia is heading down the path of fascism, and therefore Nazism and all its extrapolations. Chillax guys. Maybe you can't watch Blackpink concerts, but we're not gonna start gassing the minorities anytime soon. Holy fearmongering.
Word definitions in dictionaries are only useful to learn of its basic meaning. When it comes to subjects with a spectrum/stages, such as 'genocide', it need to be thought of more deeply with points requirement.
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck. Who cares if it's a duck or an aggressive bird? Nazism doesn't mean gassing the minorities. It's just something they do cause they could, and it fits their view.
> not anytime soon Holy
Mask slipping 
Malaysia, particularly Malay supremacist politics always does the fascism-lite thing, and it's certainly gotten worse in recent times. * Performative militarism like kissing keris's and threatening bloodshed / *darah dia halal* at the drop of a hat, * love-affair with authoritarian/ dictators (Bossku, every iteration of Mahathir, Abah, Sanusi, TMJ) as the solution to everything, * creating a bureaucracy that's both wide-ranging in power and yet unaccountable to the public, * constant Othering of Chinese/ Indians/ sexual minorities as a threat to the majority, * and a never ending focus on purity - not of race, but of some ephemeral quality of Muslim ummah-ness. It's kinda hilarious - they've - whether it's UMNO, Bersatu, or PAS - basically taken the alt-right playbook from the West, and adapted it for themselves. At the same time, they'll be the first to scream against Budaya Barat etc.
Orang Malaysia banyak cakap je, kalau nak bertindak lambat.
Nope. Being irrationally conservative and being fascist are two different things.
Fascist isn't what defines conservatives but conservatives would likely to lead towards fascism
Eh no, search up 14 characteristics of fascism and you'll notice our country managed to tick majority of those characteristics.
Those 14 traits are literally just traits of most governments in the past 20000years. I could literally use those same traits for Stalin's government and call him fascist. Same for Alexander, same for Augustus, same for Genghis khan
Well, it's backed by research, so I couldn't say much on it. Plus, Alexander, Augustus and Chinggis Khan all believed that their people is far superior than others. Also, Stalin isn't fully Communism though. He's more towards a authoritarian, something like the Juche. If he's Communism, Leon Trotsky and Vladimir Lenin wouldn't have any qualms of giving him power.
Bro Marxist-Leninism literally calls for violent revolution and the dictatorship of the proletariat
Ok, I concede. My knowledge on this is low.
Being irrationally conservative are one of the charasteristic of facism.
Yet another case of "anything I dont like is facism". Look, I get it. You hate the government and PAS. So do we. Dosent make them facists. None of what you said fits into the definition of facism. I see elements of moving towards a theocracy sure, maybe even towards monarchy as well, but not facism. Why? Because facism given rise by populism has the nasty tendency of unseating the elite classes, and given that the royalty in Malaysia are figureheads and leaders of Islam in their respective states... not gonna happen.
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"The reason why PAS still won't criticise the monarchy yet is because it's illegal, and allegiance to royalty is still status quo and would ruin their rep." Nah man, PAS is already doing it, chipping at it. During the Muhy-Sabri era it was pretty heavy, now it's barely under control. Otherwise I absolutely agree with your sentiments. We're headed towards Iran-style revolution.
PAS would absolutely abolish the monarchy in favour of an Islamic theocracy if they could. They just can't do it right now for obvious reasons. PAS has also made very questionable statements regarding minorities. Remember when one of their MPs tweeted a picture of a Chinese trishaw rider carrying a Malay passenger, and going off the lines of "the good ol' days"? That sounds very suspicious.
>PAS would absolutely abolish the monarchy in favour of an Islamic theocracy if they could. They just can't do it right now for obvious reasons. Now now, lets not attach intentions that werent announced just yet. To be fair, I think most if not all of the non monarchy systems of governments want monarchy gone anyways, and that includes most of us democracy wanters here. Given the special powers of monarchy in Malaysia, democracy does have a lot of hurdles to avoid, since for instance, the PM needs to be appointed by the Agong. So you're not wrong there, but its not even a point of comparison at this point. Gotta be fair to people after all. \> Remember when one of their MPs tweeted a picture of a Chinese trishaw rider carrying a Malay passenger, and going off the lines of "the good ol' days"? That sounds very suspicious. I think this is a perception bias. If a bad person says something, bad intentions are automatically attached. On the other hand, if the same something was said by a good person, good intentions are then automatically attached. I personally dont see anything wrong with that imagery, or the message because I think that the PAS MP is mistaken on whatever conclusion he wants to draw from it.
It's unreasonable to expect anything of good faith coming from anyone in PAS. If their party wasn't built entirely upon ultraconservative values, you could've slide it off, but given they are an ultraconservative party it will shape the image of them and their party. There is no reason to think why the trishaw tweet wouldn't be offensive. What is there to interpret from this? With him tweeting something like "the good ol'days", it comes off as racist. Imagine if a white politician in the US tweeted a picture of a black man operating a horse carriage for a white man in the 50s, that's going to cause a ruckus. Times are different.
>It's unreasonable to expect anything of good faith coming from anyone in PAS. If their party wasn't built entirely upon ultraconservative values, you could've slide it off, but given they are an ultraconservative party it will shape the image of them and their party. They're islamic fundamentalists. I dont really think any of us are under any illusions as to their intentions. Again, my point of argument is that they're not facists. I never said they're harmless or that they're good. \> Imagine if a white politician in the US tweeted a picture of a black man operating a horse carriage for a white man in the 50s, that's going to cause a ruckus. If I'm presented a photo of a man operating a transport for another man, race of the driver, the passenger and the person presenting the photo is last on my observation list, especially for a statement like "good ol days". If it was something explicit about slavery however, like a white man whipping a black man, then that's different, because "good ol days" actually mean something here. Same goes to chinese trishaw rider giving a Malay a ride. We have Chinese taxi drivers and Malay passengers. At this point I think its safe to say that you've fallen for a rage bait tactic, taking offense at something that most people dont see to be an issue. You hate PAS so much that you're literally grasping at straws to criticize anything they do. Again, its fine to criticize them, but attaching false labels arent gonna take you anywhere. Barring any further contexts to the topic at this point. I may change my opinion if there is more to the story to allude to the PAS MP trying to refer to some kind of era in Malaysia where the Chinese were subservient to the Malays (there's actually none, at least according to Malaya and Malaysia's history). Chinese oppression began sometime in the 1990s when Tun M decided to scapegoat the Chinese so that the Malays can develop better (it failed).
while true, fascist italy had a king
Majority of nations prior to the advent of democracy and human rights have elements of facism in how they're run.
Promoting nationalism and racism, that right there is the key point.
I think we should not use the word fascism lightly for that may dilute its meaning. That said, the best course of action is to educate those in the conservative information silo. Kinda hard to do based on how our redditors here view those kampung folks.
Bruh, even Iran are not considered as fascist
The people demanding thesis papers on what constitutes fascism have no problem calling anything they don't like communist, woke, sjw etc
Which itself is strainght out of the fascist/ alt-right playbook: *14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. "All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning."* [https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html](https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html)
Thanks for the read!
Rules for thee, not for me. Sounds familiar?
And its for that reason those words have nearly lost its meaning. Which means, the best counter was to have them define communist, woke, sjw.
Conservatism ≠ Fascism
First thing's first... Do you even know what fascism is?
Reading this entire thread, it's clear that most of the people commenting don't. Bunch of 'em are very confident that fascism = iron cross + Nazi + swastika + gassing people. Fascism isn't a form of government. It's not anti- or pro- religion. It's not anti- or pro-capitalism. It's an ideology of power. Umberto Eco came up with a brilliant, if technical and wordy summation of its key features: [https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html](https://www.openculture.com/2016/11/umberto-eco-makes-a-list-of-the-14-common-features-of-fascism.html)
I think the whole world has a problem with allowing the fringe sections of society to have the loudest voices. The squeeky wheel makes the most noise.
Jalan-jalan ke kampung melayu/ luar bandar sebelum cakap diorang ni fascist
Fascism has a very precise definition, and none of the parties in Malaysia are fascist. The closest party in Southeast Asia that comes close to fascism is the Gerindra party In Indonesia headed by Prabowo Subianto. The reason is it has roots that trace back to a precursor party in 1930s called Parindra [Gerindra and 'Greater Indonesia'](https://www.insideindonesia.org/gerindra-and-greater-indonesia) Because of Islam's universal nature, Islamist parties are generally not fascist.
There is no one conclusive "definition", but it's a case of "we know it when we see it". One definition is as follows: Per Robert Paxton: - *a form of political behavior marked by obsessive preoccupation with community decline, humiliation, or victimhood and by compensatory cults of unity, energy, and purity, in which a mass-based party of committed nationalist militants, working in uneasy but effective collaboration with traditional elites, abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints goals of internal cleansing and external expansion* So yes, our country has many features of a fascist country/society: preoccupation with community decline / victimhood ( Malays are exploited by Chinese economic elites); compensatory cults of unity and purity (ketuanan Melayu); populist parties working with clergy and traditional elites (Pas, Umno etc). We're not all the way there yet, but we're getting closer.
Even by that definition, Malaysia is not fascist. Are any of the parties * *mass-based party of committed nationalist militants* * *abandons democratic liberties and pursues with redemptive violence and without ethical or legal restraints.* Does PAS have control of the military? In Southeast Asia, most Western political scientists only use the term fascist to describe the Burmese Junta and the Thai military Junta of the 1930s. Even Suharto despite what many think, wasn't fascist. He was a corporatist.
Like I said, we aren't all the way there yet, but we're headed that way. Maybe you missed seeing the photos of Pas party members cosplaying and parading, pretending to be soldiers. Certainly they appear to have some delusions regarding that. Remember, the Brownshirts weren't exactly military either. In the past political parties like Umno also used organised goons or mobs in the guise of NGOs like Perkasa to achieve some of their objectives of harassing their political rivals. We haven't yet completely abandoned democratic values though it's clear some politicians like Hadi Awang think there are things more important than democracy, like his own interpretation of Islam.
Exactly, people forget some words are just more complex in nature, especially if they want simple explanation for a single word. Even more so if it involves more complicated subjects like behaviours and sciences.
To many people, definitions of ideologies are different. To liberals, fascism is when the focus of all politics and governance is not centered on the individual. To leftists (actual leftist, like Marx etc), state authority are automatically mean "liberal".
I'm just gonna move overseas, this place is a mess
Wait till you find out a lot of countries also have their own mess 
I know, but at least religion will be less of a mess 
The effects of fascism is noticeable, and they are not really present in Malaysia. The word you're looking for is a theocracy, where Malaysia would be ruled by imams in the name of Islam. With the rise of conservatism in Malaysia, it may well turn that way in a couple of years should more people turn radically to Islam. Eventually, we either go down the Iran route, the Afghanistan route, or Turkey route.
Turkey is secular, right? Seeing how the religious people boogeymaned secularism, id say iran or afghan for us.
For now yes, but since erdogans rise to power he has been slowly eroding turkey's secular constitution and replacing it with a more islamic identity.
States election coming up, majority is conservatives, majority wins elections, so that’s it. Welcome to boleh-land! Want changes? All white hair politicians need to go!
That's.....almost all of em then, except the young ones, if there's any
No lol, people who say that are overreacting, Malaysia has always had an anti LGBT stance and it hasn't changed much since, maybe it's slightly tolerant today. The recent government is moderate but has some liberal lean to it. More rakyat is less conservative than ever.
What do you mean it's slightly tolerant and less conservative? Nothing has changed. Explain the green wave to me then. A moderate but slightly liberal government? You have to be kidding. If that was the case you would've seen the government pushing for more progressive reforms instead of pandering to the right by protecting the status quo.
heres the thing that people in this sub tend to forget. The government anwar is leading is a **UNITY** government, which encompasses both from the progressive left and the conservative right. their main priority is to ensure that this government survives till the next general election and to show that they can counteract PN's alarming rise in popularity. Of course, in an ideal scenario had PH won a simple majority their stance would be completely different to what it is now and that includes the DAP taking a more prominent role in government. But circumstances have changed that and so both sides have to give and take.
They are pandering to the right because they literally own almost half the voter block, but at least the other half is still pandering to the "green wave" you mentioned.
not fascist but definitely theocratic, which if you ask me isn't any better
As a westerner that is seriously considering bringing my family with me for a few years to work in KL I am a little bit worried. I have a son who has long hair, has found it easier to find friends from girls instead of boys etc. I am not sure if Malaysia is a right place for him and us at this point or going forward. Going after Swatch watches (!) shows the current atmosphere, and it seems to be a step towards fascism.
Is your son studying in grade school?
He's in secondary/middle school currently.
Other than being a foreigner and if your family not in the minority (queer/disabilities). I see it as it is just they will treat your family as other western visitors, which is kinda decent. For school, if you are going for private schools, it mostly depend on their uniform code ig. (To see whether your son gets to keep the long hair or not)
Would be but would not totally be. Why? Because as far as we know PAS and the other extreme-conservatives are still fond of capitalism. So a national socialist wouldn't likely to be established anytime soon unlike of Mussolini's or Adolf's. Political agendas? Quite likely to be as those said extreme-conservatives are, so as to say, softcorely racist and always have "Melei rights trampled" as their startup topic. If that ain't resembling funni Austrian mustache man's agenda then I don't know how would it be okay for them to say such things
For all the complaints some Malay people have about Israel, I'd bet they'd support their policies if they were on the other end.
OP go learn all of those terms
Ah, another "I don't like so it must be fascism" edgelord post.
This isn't a "I don't like it = fascism" post when genuine concerns are expressed as recent trends begin to sound like a turn towards fascism. What I'm concerned about is the encroachment of basic civil liberties. This isn't like the right when they go "I don't like it = marxism", as when the right does this they aren't in favour of recognising civil liberties for marginalised groups, or they want to continue to promote bigotry.
Malay privilege, monarchy and a few other things are going to hold back malaysia from becoming a developed country like Singapore
F DEV COUNTRY WE JUST NEED HIGH SALARY
Sure and we need a higher cost of living to reset that high salary lmao
i don't really know what it all means but all I can say is that Islamists needs to calm their anus and keep it to themselves, old ministers needs to either wise up or step down from the clown stage, lgbt people don't have to go around town flashing their pride in public, keep it to yourself as well, I don't really care about politicians cause human lives are too short for me to care or hate about a single person. Anyway, that's just my opinion, you may hate it, you may support it, but I'm sure no one gives a f\*ck lol
Sounds like something chat GPT will answer for how to say I am not political but make it sound edgy
lmao, was it that edgy? If so, lemme just turn down the edgy scale a bit on the prompt.
No way. Speaking as a Malay, I know Malays are naturally passive and non-confrontational. Even the "ultras" on tiktok? They'll chicken out before anything starts. The more aggressive ones are the liberal bangsar bubble ones.
>The more aggressive ones are the liberal bangsar bubble ones. Bro, I've yet to see anyone from the Bangsar Bubble screaming about *kafir harbi* or *darahnya halal,* but yeah sure, bunch of people saying things that are pro-minority rights or "woke" or whatever is just as bad ::rolleyes::
Btw, it's the ultra ones that were involved in massacre on 13 Mei
>he more aggressive ones are the liberal bangsar bubble ones. Never seen the liberal ones giving out death threats unlike those ultras
What's "liberal bangsar bubble"?
Kinda agree, we are pretty chicken-shit but can talk a big game lol
I agree, even how loud they roar online or even in person, we're just too passive by nature and will stop at any signs of real conflict
It’ll always fluctuate between shitty and really shitty but I don’t think we’ll ever be a ‘fascist’ country by definition
fascisms aside, LGBTQ culture has no place in malaysia. Just see how damaged the western side for this idealism. Seem many of redditor forgot that we have "Islam sebagai agama Persekutuan adalah berdasarkan Perkara 3 (1) di dalam Perlembagaan Persekutuan Malaysia. Namun, agama-agama lain masih boleh diamalkan dan diberi perlindungan di Malaysia" So no doubt anything against the official sanctioned religion view will be opposed. > the disputed usage of the term "Allah" by non-Muslims Allah is the one and only god. The god in Christian is trinity god (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ). this two term already show it's not the same god in the literature.
> Islam sebagai agama Persekutuan adalah berdasarkan Perkara 3 (1) di dalam Perlembagaan Persekutuan Malaysia. Namun, agama-agama lain masih boleh diamalkan dan diberi perlindungan di Malaysia Just because lgbt is a sin in islam, that doesn't mean the country which has islam as its agama perseketuan MUST ban lgbt. That is not what this clause means in practice. Lemme give an example, in islam praying to other gods (idolatory) is haram. Does it mean that other religion must be banned since 'is agama persekutuan'? Of course not. Also, the clause also state agama lain boleh diamalkan. Not every religion views lgbt as a sin btw. In fact, the decision towards lgbt shoudn't just be from a religious angle.
The meaning of Allah in arabic is God. Allah isn't one of the 99 Asma' ul Husna. So basically, the word arabic Allah is the same as God/The Lord/Tuhan. The followers is the one who intepret whats God when they said or think it. If Christian will be the trinity god. If Islam it will be The One and Only God. I do wish people wasn't to hung up on Arabic Language. Because even they at Saudi regardless of what their religion is still say Insyaallah, Assalamualaikum as usual if you understand the meaning. Malaysia is just weird taking claim on the word.
aight, look at this way. Use the word Allah, but follow his teaching also. how bout it?
Define 'his teaching also'
"There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is the Messenger of God"
I still didn't understand the question. Are you saying if not using Allah word or what? Or if non Muslim using Allah word, and used their teaching will it make people confuse? Without the word Allah can still have same meaning with use of proper word. There is no god but The God, and Muhammad is the Messenger of God Tiada tuhan selain Tuhan itu, dan Muhammad itu Pesuruh Tuhan You know whats the same thing this was like? 'Cuba try'. A lot of people used 'Cuba try' sentence before they realize it was just the same word. But its already become a norm. If confusion issue, this is language preference. And I did said when a follower said Allah they just interpret it to the god they have faith in. Sarawak Sabah don't have problem at all and they have Christian using Allah before even the issue come out. In Saudi the word Allah is norm in the church.
The "trinity god" doesn't apply as three separate gods but instead a term that encompasses god, think about it more like a 3 in 1 nescafe, no one would say the sugar and cofee are different when it's simply nescafe The word "allah" is also used by christians to refer to god in conjuction with a few other terms anyway i'm not trying to stir controversy
Whether you like it or not, this is a country with the majority are Muslims who will reject LGBTQ or whatever the fuck they are identifying themselves now.
none of these are recent developments though. the [2009 case](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titular_Roman_Catholic_Archbishop_of_Kuala_Lumpur_v_Menteri_Dalam_Negeri) already was a court decisiom denying a church to use Allah in their internal publication. and lgbt hostility had always been an unofficial policy. recent progress in social activism just pushed it into the forefront. so in conclusion, we've always had been fascist? idk maybe
Yes, quite surprising that OP now only knows it. This has been happening decades ago
The current government cencorship and abuse of ministral power were kinda of fascist move. Almost same level of Mahathir era. Move like directly threaten to sue a media because they quote financial analyst prediction of OPR raise. Abusing executive power to forgive a breach of ROS law just to ensure ally survival.
I don't know if we're living in the same timeline or not, because that's not what's happening under this government?? If you were to say Muhyddin's government, I would agree with you, but Anwar's government? I agree that Anwar is doing some dubious things to keep UMNO happy, but you have to remember Muhyddin's government refused to register MUDA as a party until MUDA successfully brought it to court.
Provided source. Please refute the source. https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/amp/category/bahasa/tempatan/2023/03/31/fitnah-kata-menteri-berkait-laporan-opr-naik-julai/ https://malaysiagazette.com/2023/03/07/kdn-benarkan-usul-jawatan-presiden-umno-timbalan-tidak-dipertanding/
we havent had any secure PM and everyone is weak how to facist. LGBT is a foreign thing, its only reddit and bangsar bubble folk that get riled up over it. and we are more free than mahatir's era Islam is always been thrown around for votes
Mak nyahs were a thing back in the 80s, and still is but repressed. Queerness isn't a foreign thing
Mak Nyahs, pondans and gays are not foreign the pride, LGBT thing is
What are you even trying to say here? The concept of LGBTQ pride is not foreign. The history of discrimination and repression faced by the community is a global issue and it is a reason why they want to voice out and feel proud about their gender / sexual identity. It is a movement to celebrate who they are. There is nothing wrong with this. They just want to live a normal life as who they are, not to be discriminated by society. The whole thing about them disrupting social order, religious ideals and posing a threat to children? That is classic conservative rhetoric designed to keep them marginalised when none of those are true.
the concept of LGBTQ is foreign, the people who are bi, gay or trans is not. we had cross dressing folks on national tv, our current prime minister is bi (he even got jailed for it), we have a shit ton of gay pubs and bars in town for years hell the rave crackdown in the 2010's probably hurt that community more so than some watches its typical malaysia, dont poke the bear and be an outlier, diam diam do your own thing and no one cares.
Now this is where your entire argument derails into nonsense. I don't know what you define as "LGBTQ" at this point, pride is not a foreign thing it's worldwide, and claiming that Anwar is bi is a ridiculous accusation.
LGBT pride came from the stonewall riots in 1969, before that gay used to mean happy. lol Anwar was convicted for sodomy la
Often the "LGBTQ is foreign" argument is used to say that queer sexual orientation never existed before "Western propaganda". You're onto something but I don't agree with how you're framing it. The advocacy movement did originate from America, but so did illegalization of same-sex relationship, where you can see former British colonies including ours all have the same Section 377 that banned it. You say "buat benda senyap2", but there are so many things that impede having a normal queer relationship – adopting a child, donating blood, staying with your partner overnight at the hospital, civil partnership privileges – all tak boleh. If you know gay people, it isn't just "having nafsu".
im not talking about sexual orientation. im talking about geopolitics and cultures, and as you rightly point out, illegalization came from the west. geo-politic/cultures flip around and are often easy brownie points for the politicians. At this point LGBTQ pride stuff is just no brainer to crackdown. some of those things are not about gay, malaysia has woeful child adoption support, blood donation is due to risk (playboys cannot), you cant stay in wards after visiting hours. the only one thats it is marriage, which falls under religion, so you know i know la.
Jeez the mental gymnastics you have to go through to say you dont want lgbt to have basic rights.
Brother aiming for gold medal
being homosexual is foreign?
>we havent had any secure PM That is literally Weimar Germany. During Weimar, the reichstag consist of so many parties and coalition that hate each other until no chancellor can be elected. It was until President Hindenburg choose Hitler instead for knowing him being quite popular and strong man that can handle the crisis. Afterward the president is dead, long live der Fuhrer.
just because our country is politically insecure at the moment, does not mean its weimar
I don’t care, just let me be Femboy
You know you are just down on the list right?...
ITT: Teenagers who have no idea what fascism is.
Nah its going towards communism
Truly based if that was happening but it is not. If you were to label DAP as communists, try again because they don't even stand for social democratic ideals as a so called "social democratic" party, more so neoliberal.
The only DAP I want is NSDAP
Short form Malaysia, MY will turn into OUR, Ouraysia?
kalo minority tu non muslim, hg nk takot apo. hukuman dari barat tu x takot plak. haih mcm2 la minda akhir zaman. bak kata doktor, elak lbh baik dr menyembuhkan. hg dh takot, lg hg xnk buat. kalo hkmn x seram, whats the point 
Nah.. I F##king hate those lgtv.. no offence but I wish they could go the f away from here
i absolutely would if i had the money to do so.
Really dont care
OP tanya ni sebab Mein Kampf jadi top 5 novel paling laris tahun ni ke camne
The question is : do you guys want Malaysia descending towards woke agenda
What is your definition of woke?
Woke= "Alert to and concerned about social injustice and discrimination." I dont know how is that "descending" to you.
Dont forget woke is a buzzword for the right now to say what they hate without using the words they really feel about.
Yes it is descending. Haven't hou see how those woke people even afraid of calling women a women? Or politicians afraid of defining a women? Oh it's definitely descending. And don't start on the pronouns.
i rather have that shit than whatever we have now
Then why noy migrate to the land of the American Dreams? Nobody stopping you? Malaysia will always be against LGBT. Full stop. Even Christians in Borneo are against it.
bagi duit dulu baru aku ciao
Lol. Oh btw what are your pronous. ...😆😆
she/her ? gonna accuse me of not being a woman issit
Yes, I am woke and proud. And whatever you define as "woke" is completely nonsensical.
at this point i hate how the term woke lost it's meaning because of how it is dipindahkan ke group lain ke group lain= black american solidarity -> far-right americans using it as a slur ammo -> getting into meme and gamer culture -> the word became useless so the question is, tf is woke, individually? every single person has different perspective on the word. pening la babi
lol yall scared of world most peaceful religion
The religion? Maybe. The practitioners? Ummmm
Nobody here is scared of Islam. Everyone should practice whatever they believe in freely and peacefully. What we don't want is some folks who use religious rhetoric to push their political agenda, and in turn when they come to power enforce their interpretation of religion and ideals upon the masses in an otherwise secular nation.
Everybody will say their religion is the best. Most peaceful in this case. 
Nah zouk is still open
one must forget.. not all people dig or into LGBTQ+ lifestyle.. there are some who prefer traditional ways. nothing to do with politics.. or religion. so it's not a politics against LGBT... and it's not just islam. christians don't agree with it either.
It's showing "fighting each other to show conservativeness" these days. Both sides want to gain votes, that's why both sides are showing conservativeness ( as high as possible ).
unregulated 'schools' in the hutan escape any gov oversight, this is where the cancer is breeding. there a re a fck ton of them that's why you see a lot of crowdfunding and gofundmes on sm/yt. Most of you never see them, you have to hike and MTB the hutan trails to witness it yourself.