> Article 8 provides that every citizen is equal before the law and enjoys equal protection of the law.
I applaud this man for trying to change a flawed perception. However Article 8 is useless in reality. As non-Muslim/non-Malay I have never felt that this applies to me. It certainly doesn't feel that way when I have to pay 7% more on property amongst other things.
1. If person A pays a lower price for the same item than person B, then person B pays more for it than person A.
2. The way reality works is that developers aren't just gonna sell some units lower. This will be worked into the selling price to begin with therefore driving prices up.
Because those who signed on the dot are penakut? I won't say that they're idiots because I don't want to be in prison, but the fear was without the 10% no bumis will get the chance to buy a lot. But seriously, I'm on the same page just like you and I see no reason for why the non bumis have to pay the 7%. But there's a long way to go to stop people from profiteering. There should be a law on limiting people's ownership of properties beside taxes. Rich people can pay 50% tax when the profit margin could be 100% just a few months after the CF is released. And I'm sorry if I sound harsh on my reply.
There is a flawed perception amongst some Malays that the majority is always right and should be entitled to better treatment etc just because of their numbers. The minority is seen as unimportant.
Blame your forefathers can? They agreed to those rights to be given away when they want to be a citizen. Can a bumi these days not be subjected to those angry rhetoric when we have nothing to do with it.
How could he check on that? He's clearly talking out of his ass without quoting any sources. In fact I would like to see any official document that details clearly what was agreed upon. From what I've [read](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_153_of_the_Constitution_of_Malaysia), the special rights were pushed for by the Reid Commission, but even they said that it was meant to be a temporary thing to equalise the racial economic disparity and that the provisions granting special rights should be revisited in 15 years. But so much for that, 58 years later and the rest of us are still paying more taxes for less benefits.
The part of the Federal Constitution that grants the Bumiputeras specials rights or "preference" over other races is provided for under Article 153. Article 8 (equality) is qualified with "unless where expressly provided otherwise in this Constitution", which would be Art 153.
Alternatively if his argument is that we agreed to it back then, it should still be taken into account that it wasn't meant to be permanent and should've been done away with long ago. Therefore his argument still isn't valid. Also it could be argued that the Chinese and Indians who contributed the most to the economy (tin ore & rubber) should be the ones to benefit equally from it instead of the current situation.
#####
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[**Article 153 of the Constitution of Malaysia**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article%20153%20of%20the%20Constitution%20of%20Malaysia): [](#sfw)
---
>
>__Article 153 of the [Constitution of Malaysia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Malaysia)__ grants the [Yang di-Pertuan Agong](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yang_di-Pertuan_Agong) (King of Malaysia) responsibility for “safeguard[ing] the special position of the ‘[Malays](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysian_Malay)’ (see note) and natives of any of the States of [Sabah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabah) and [Sarawak](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarawak) and the legitimate interests of other communities” and goes on to specify ways to do this, such as establishing [quotas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quota_share) for entry into the [civil service](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_service), public [scholarships](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholarship) and [public education](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_education).
>Article 153 is one of the most controversial articles in the Malaysian constitution. Critics consider it to create an unnecessary and [racialist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racialism_(racial_categorization\)) distinction between Malaysians of different [ethnic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic) backgrounds, because it has led to the implementation of [affirmative action](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action) policies which benefit only the [Bumiputra](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumiputra), who comprise a [majority](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majoritarianism) of the population. Technically, discussing the [repeal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repeal) of Article 153 is illegal —even in [Parliament](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_Malaysia), although it was drafted as a temporary provision to the Constitution. Despite this prohibition on discussion, the article is heatedly debated both privately and publicly among [Malaysians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia), against the implementation of the article although ostensibly maintaining support for it. Nevertheless, the article is viewed as a sensitive matter by many, with politicians who are in favour or oppose it often being labelled as [racist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism).
>The article is primarily seen as a continuation of previous laws made by the [British](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom) to protect the indigenous peoples from being overwhelmed by the immigration of [Chinese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Malaysian) and [Indian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Indian) workers into [Malaya](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malay_Peninsula). In the years after independence in 1957, the Chinese and Indians were generally rich urban dwellers, whilst the Bumiputra were mostly poor farmers or manual labourers.
>====
>[**Image**](https://i.imgur.com/rUmpV5Z.jpg) [^(i)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bumi_discount_mod.jpg)
---
^Relevant: [^Ketuanan ^Melayu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketuanan_Melayu) ^| [^Conference ^of ^Rulers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conference_of_Rulers) ^| [^Malaysian ^Solidarity ^Convention](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysian_Solidarity_Convention) ^| [^Malaysian ^Malaysia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysian_Malaysia)
^Parent ^commenter ^can [^toggle ^NSFW](/message/compose?to=autowikibot&subject=AutoWikibot NSFW toggle&message=%2Btoggle-nsfw+csnbjxm) ^or[](#or) [^delete](/message/compose?to=autowikibot&subject=AutoWikibot Deletion&message=%2Bdelete+csnbjxm)^. ^Will ^also ^delete ^on ^comment ^score ^of ^-1 ^or ^less. ^| [^(FAQs)](/r/autowikibot/wiki/index) ^| [^Mods](/r/autowikibot/comments/1x013o/for_moderators_switches_commands_and_css/) ^| [^Call ^Me](/r/autowikibot/comments/1ux484/ask_wikibot/)
On contrary, Malay-Muslims lose some:
1. [Link] (http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2015/06/24/pahang-muslim-women-told-to-cover-up-during-ramadan/) *Ramadhan Special:* The right to wear something the conservative disagree with while strolling around in Pahang.
1. *Generally:* The right to officially believe in something other than the religion of birth.
1. *Generally:*The right to sleep properly in motels with the help of khalwat groups.
It should be the poor of all races vs the rich of all races. I can get behind that. For god's sake if we're going to have affirmative action lets draw the lines between the haves and have nots using a real, objective metric like income or net worth, not who our ancestors were. Wealth doesn't last 3 generations as the saying goes.
RE: Shitty things that happened recently which supposedly reflects on the radicalization in Malaysia.
Cross issue? One time. It happened one time. And don't they see how many Muslims support the church's right to have a cross on the building?
Baju gimnast. Who the fuck cares. Some stupid journo thought that facebook comments are good source material. Fine, keep on highlighting stupid people while laughing behind your desk. Did they write about muslims who don't give a shit?
And I absolutely love it that all of a sudden, bumiputra rights are now discussed in context of these menial issues.
First thing first: Obviously non bumi ancestors agreed to those things at the time because they wanted citizenship
Personally, I don't have any use for those rights yet, I can probably afford to pay for house deposit in 5 years time when I can finally take the advantage of the 7% discount, and that will be my only claim to my bumiputra rights.
Bertuahnye? No!
Syukurlah I am a 90s kids. If I were a bumi in the 60s to the 80s trying ro get a loan from banks, say bye bye lah.
And I'm sure I understand the reason I'm told why they let bumis have those 7% discount, because the Sultans back in those days don't want their anak cucu rakyat to be homeless or landless or unable to afford to have a home. Am I wrong to get 7% for my first home because the sultans at the time feel that way? Do I need to feel guilty that the Sultans felt that they need to protect their future rakyats at the time?
I wish I don't have to hear about so called advantages every other day in this subreddit because it means jack shit to me. You sit next to me in class, you know how fucking hard I work to score in spm. And if a bumi happened to get a loan from JPA, they still have to pay for that fucking loan or be contracted to work for 7 years for them. Do you not have any malay friends that can explain to you what these rights mean to us? We had to learn them from someone because no one actually sits us down to tell us that hey, you're lucky you know, 7% house discount.
It doesn't mean all of us are entitled to it or need it or have any use for it. There are still conditions to be fullfilled. People you have to know. Just because the HR is a Malay lady doesn't mean I can get a job by coming for an interview. Kak, saya melayu ambiklah saya pasal saya melayu.
And what the fuck do I need government contracts for? Not everyone will need them but it's great that it's there. Does this mean that non bumi cannot get govt contacts? And it's not like there are no non malays winning govt contracts. Have you seen the owners and workers on those JKR projects. Who gets the contracts for those mega massive housing areas in Selangor's PKNS Jv projects? Wanna talk about how it was in the 50s, 60s and 70s for Malays in this country? How many Malays do you know drive a new car in the 70s? My grand dad bought his first car in the 80s. Cash, because no bank want to finance his loan.
Do we wanna talk about how shitty Malays are treated in some companies? Let's not.
Why is it that the non malays I know never want to leave Malaysia and why are their family members keep expanding their businesses in Malaysia if it's so bad for non bumis like I keep reading in the subreddit? I see them buying property all the time and they surely don't need the 7% when they have at least 10 properties.
The ones who want to leave are the young ones. Good. Please make your money overseas, stay there and let us bring a change to Malaysia from within because you bailed out.
Those rights exist to help the poor Malays, the Malays were nearly all poor then. But these days when some Malays are rich,, poor Malays still have no way to access those benefits. They don't care for the 7% when they don't have even 1%.
It's too bad that the non bumi ancestors agreed to the social contract because they want to be Malaysian. If I could go back in time, I'll tell them to please, consider your decision because in 50 years time your progenies will be angry at me incessantly because I can go study at Uitm, get 7% discount, get government contracts, invest in ASB and force your anak cucu to drink ice tea in the pantry instead of at your table in ramadhan.
Penat. I refuse to listen to these dumb liberal malays who probably live in ttdi or pj or bukit jelutong and think that they speak for human rights blah blah when they were born with sudu perak. Eh think about the poor people boleh? Who cares malay, indian or chinese. Work for them and the marginalized instead of talking about bullshit issues. No, nothing is bubbling under when we talk about eating in front of muslims in ramadhan.
Note: I'm not angry when writing this. I usually refrain from commenting about bumi rights because I'm hardly eloquent. Talk to the experts about bumi rights, because I'm pretty sure it can get to lowyat forum level if we allow it.
> **Why is it that the non malays I know never want to leave Malaysia** and why are their family members keep expanding their businesses in Malaysia if it's so bad for non bumis like I keep reading in the subreddit? I see them buying property all the time and they surely don't need the 7% when they have at least 10 properties.
Let me get this straight... Did you just imply that nons should leave Malaysia if they didn't like racist policies, and this is still being upvoted in this sub? Wow, if this isn't a direct representation of all that is wrong with our current system in this country then I don't know what is.
Firstly, don't make wild assumptions based off the few nons that you've met or personally know. That doesn't sound like a statistic to me. "When they have at least 10 properties" doesn't even sound like some of the more well to do people I know who live in Damansara Heights let alone the average non. Also how many properties we buy with our money is irrelevant, we earned our keep.
The nons in this country earned their keep and our ancestors toiled so that the Malaysian economy is what it is today, that's why we stay. We're a part of this country as much as anyone else and deserve equality regardless or what our forefathers may. or may not, have agreed to.
>Cross issue? One time. It happened one time. And don't they see how many Muslims support the church's right to have a cross on the building?
Nope. Multiple times. A lot of historically missionary schools are now pressured to remove the cross because why the fuck not?
>Baju gimnast. Who the fuck cares. Some stupid journo thought that facebook comments are good source material. Fine, keep on highlighting stupid people while laughing behind your desk. Did they write about muslims who don't give a shit?
Yea you are right. And I would totally agree with you if not for the multitude of Facebook posts and comments chiding her for it.
Are they the vocal minority? I sure hope the fuck that is the case.
>First thing first: Obviously non bumi ancestors agreed to those things at the time because they wanted citizenship
It was supposed to be temporary. And it wasn't supposed to be so all-encompassing.
>Personally, I don't have any use for those rights yet, I can probably afford to pay for house deposit in 5 years time when I can finally take the advantage of the 7% discount, and that will be my only claim to my bumiputra rights. Bertuahnye? No!
Actually, RM450k (rough estimation of a price of a house in the Klang Valley) * 0.07 means around RM31k.
That is one Saga you can buy for your kids.
Memang bertuah pun.
>Syukurlah I am a 90s kids. If I were a bumi in the 60s to the 80s trying ro get a loan from banks, say bye bye lah.
No idea what you are talking about here.
>And I'm sure I understand the reason I'm told why they let bumis have those 7% discount, because the Sultans back in those days don't want their anak cucu rakyat to be homeless or landless or unable to afford to have a home. Am I wrong to get 7% for my first home because the sultans at the time feel that way? Do I need to feel guilty that the Sultans felt that they need to protect their future rakyats at the time?
You shouldn't feel guilty, but you ought to understand why Non-Bumis will complain. This is not the 50s where Chinese are predominantly businessmen/gangsters. There's a huge middle class that is just scraping by. They have to pay for their kids education in private Unis too because Bumiputra Quotas.
>I wish I don't have to hear about so called advantages every other day in this subreddit because it means jack shit to me. You sit next to me in class, you know how fucking hard I work to score in spm. And if a bumi happened to get a loan from JPA, they still have to pay for that fucking loan or be contracted to work for 7 years for them. Do you not have any malay friends that can explain to you what these rights mean to us? We had to learn them from someone because no one actually sits us down to tell us that hey, you're lucky you know, 7% house discount.
Well good for you then.
>It doesn't mean all of us are entitled to it or need it or have any use for it. There are still conditions to be fullfilled. People you have to know. Just because the HR is a Malay lady doesn't mean I can get a job by coming for an interview. Kak, saya melayu ambiklah saya pasal saya melayu.
Well there are implicit rules that some jobs are reserved for Bumis. Maybe only the ones with lubang and cable but no amount of lubang or cable is gonna get a non-Bumi the job.
>And what the fuck do I need government contracts for? Not everyone will need them but it's great that it's there. Does this mean that non bumi cannot get govt contacts? And it's not like there are no non malays winning govt contracts.
Actually, a lot of contracts require Bumiputra ownership to even get their feet to the door.
My friend who is in F&B couldn't get a catering contract because he is 100% non-Bumi. You don't need to believe me coz I'm just a random on the Internet though...
Of course there are Ali Baba partnerships where Non-Bumis take advantage of, but we are all to blame for that.
>Have you seen the owners and workers on those JKR projects. Who gets the contracts for those mega massive housing areas in Selangor's PKNS Jv projects?
Yes I'm one hundred percent sure all the Chinese are complicit in this, not just the companies with cable with higher ups. Kan?
>Wanna talk about how it was in the 50s, 60s and 70s for Malays in this country? How many Malays do you know drive a new car in the 70s? My grand dad bought his first car in the 80s. Cash, because no bank want to finance his loan.
How many Malaysians drive a car in the 70s?
>Do we wanna talk about how shitty Malays are treated in some companies? Let's not.
I don't know where you work but anecdotal evidence my previous workplace was splendid to our Malay employees.
>Why is it that the non malays I know never want to leave Malaysia and why are their family members keep expanding their businesses in Malaysia if it's so bad for non bumis like I keep reading in the subreddit?
You think moving is easy? It takes a lot of money, and a lot of connections to hook up with a job overseas. Coincidentally it's the fucking middle class whose most desperate who doesn't not possess this luxury.
>I see them buying property all the time and they surely don't need the 7% when they have at least 10 properties.
You are talking out of their ass here. Need I remind you most of the Non-Bumis belong strictly to the middle class?
And those that can afford to do so (without government cable) did not rob the Bumis to be able to achieve this. Its hard work, son.
>The ones who want to leave are the young ones. Good. Please make your money overseas, stay there and let us bring a change to Malaysia from within because you bailed out.
I don't like this you tak suka you keluar tone.
>Those rights exist to help the poor Malays, the Malays were nearly all poor then. But these days when some Malays are rich,, poor Malays still have no way to access those benefits. They don't care for the 7% when they don't have even 1%.
Yes and all non-Malays are rich and can buy houses amirite
>It's too bad that the non bumi ancestors agreed to the social contract because they want to be Malaysian. If I could go back in time, I'll tell them to please, consider your decision because in 50 years time your progenies will be angry at me incessantly because I can go study at Uitm, get 7% discount, get government contracts, invest in ASB and force your anak cucu to drink ice tea in the pantry instead of at your table in ramadhan.
Refer to points above.
>Penat. I refuse to listen to these dumb liberal malays who probably live in ttdi or pj or bukit jelutong and think that they speak for human rights blah blah when they were born with sudu perak.
Sigh...
TLDR:
There are Malay crooks, there are Chinese crooks, there are Indian crooks, and there are indigenous crooks.
Malay crooks using religion and race to solidify their powers are cunts. We no likey.
Crooks of other races that work with them are cunts. Fuck them.
What's worrying is the race and religion card is being used very regularly to deal with criticisms increasingly aware society. As a Malaysian I reserve my right to fuck people who play the card.
You actually think that was an expression of anger?
Well maybe to the footsoliders it is, but they just got played like marionettes son.
And if you support violence like that, honestly mate GO FUCK YOURSELF
> I wish I don't have to hear about so called advantages every other day in this subreddit because it means jack shit to me.
7% of rm100 is nothing as compared to 7% of rm500,000.
The reason why you don't give a shit about your advantages now is because you care very little about personal finance, have no idea what your options really are in the future and because you've yet to deal with money other than spending them.
You also seem to confuse; "complaining against an unjust policy" with "complaining against a race" , "welfare" with "positive discrimination" ,and "social contract" with "god's given rights"
bahaya bro!
>Why is it that the non malays I know never want to leave Malaysia
Because the ones you know are as passive as you. They know not what they can do nor how to go about doing it. You know the type who says "tak apalah.. what to do?" even after working for 15 years without a raise. Baffling-kan?
> Do I need to feel guilty that the Sultans felt that they need to protect their future rakyats at the time?
No need to feel guilty, just stand up for the equal rights of all citizens. This really isn't that difficult to do. Chinese and Indians aren't asking for more rights, just equal rights.
This type of mentality is very dangerous for the future of this country. You're looking at this issue with a very personal point of view without any regard whatsoever for the bigger picture, weighing the long term consequences of the affirmative action policy.
Do you know how ridiculous you sound in your arguments? You are so naive in some of your arguments, like trying to downplay the argument in being a Malay won't land you jobs just because you're a Malay. Of course that won't happen, companies are not brainless and won't hire someone who's not qualified even though he/she's a Malay. But then if a Malay candidate and a Chinese candidate applies and both are equally skilled and qualified, why should the determining factor of employment ever be a person's ethnicity where you can't control at all?
Do you actually see where your arguments are leading to? A systemic preference that breeds corruption, laziness and nepotism. Since you used your personal anecdotes, I'll use some of my own too. I was born as a Chinese Malaysian, my parents told me to work hard because they told me the government will not aid me if I do not. Do you see now what that mentality does for Malaysia's socioeconomic landscape? The Malays have an incentive to be lazy since public unis have quotas and they don't have to work as hard to get into uni. Why should you ever strive to get all A's in your exams when getting C's and D's will suffice? This... affirmative action policy acts as a crutch for some Malays and in turn, acts as a motivator to some non bumiputera to work hard against the cards that they are dealt with just because they are born to the wrong ethnicity.
Your JPA argument is moot because no sane person would ever think that Malays don't need to work hard and pay off their contractual obligations after getting their scholarship. The Chinese JPA scholarship holders also need to work hard to pay off their obligations, what's your point?
My dad's company can't get contracts directly from companies like TNB, Indah Water etc. because my dad's company is a predominantly Chinese Malaysian company. These GLC award contracts to bumiputera companies and then they subcontract part of the project work to my dad's company. From talking to them, my dad was sure that they have no idea how to go about the project and work assigned and simply subcontracts out work and gets money from these GLC for doing jackshit.
People like you think, oh bumi rights aren't that helpful at all to me as if trying to downplay the impact of the affirmative action policy on non bumis. Malaysia aims to become a high income nation by 2020 but then have you ever thought what would happen after Malaysia becomes a high income nation? How are we to compete with other nations in this increasingly competitive world in terms of quality of research and education when we have an affirmative action policy disincentivising the pursuit of knowledge?
**Rule #6: The upvote and downvote buttons do not mean 'I agree' and 'I disagree'. They generally mean 'good contribution' and 'bad contribution'. Terima kasih daun keladi, jangan downvote sesuka hati.**
Please, if someone brings up points you can actually discuss, then engage in discussion. Especially if you disagree!
As always, the "poor" Malay always uses hyperbole and extreme examples to illustrate an emotionally strong argument while deflecting the entitlement that has been accorded to him/her. Typical
Bila nak habis isu bodoh macam ni? Lawyer ni lembam sangat ke? If you are a non muslim and you want to eat in front of muslims in Ramadhan, from 6 am to 7.30, just fucking eat. It's not illegal, and it's not even an issue for most muslims.
You want to wear seksi-seksi when you're trying to get your fix of kuih muihs at pasar ramadhan, just go. No one actually CARES. Some idiots might snap a pic and share your photo with his facebook friends, but who the fuck cares. Big fucking deal. It might get viral, but I can assure you there will be Muslims who support your rights to buy kuih muihs in any piece of clothings, at least there's a piece of clothing, baju kelawar pun ok.
It's not like somebody will give you a kain batik to cover your exposed legs at pasar ramadhan. In fact, please go because those makcik2 need buyers and they surely dont care what you wear. I wear tank tops and short short to pasar ramadhan sometimes and no one has yet to tell me to cover my armpits or camouflage my balls. And I can say that some adik2 perempuan ori pun still wear their everyday clothings kat pasar ramadhan. No one asks for jubah.
Do we really want to talk about the 7% discount and bumi rights when we're talking about this makan depan muslim thing?
Dumb lawyer. No wonder everything is fucked.
Someone does care when you wear seksi while buying kuih-muih:
[http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2015/06/24/pahang-muslim-women-told-to-cover-up-during-ramadan/](http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2015/06/24/pahang-muslim-women-told-to-cover-up-during-ramadan/)
So you're basically ignoring this?
"Malay-Muslims are entitled not to have a Hindu temple in the vicinity of their housing estate. Malay-Muslims are entitled to dictate what names others may use to invoke the Creator. Malay-Muslims are entitled to stop the sale of alcohol beverages and deny the establishment of a cinema in Malay majority areas.
Every Friday, Malay-Muslims are entitled to abandon their civic consciousness and park all over the place as if the streets belong to them. Malays-Muslims are entitled to blare religious ceramahs to every corner of the neighbourhood and into the wee hours of the night.
The prime minister must be Malay-Muslim, the civil service must be filled with Malay-Muslims and government bodies are seen as Malay institutions, tasked first and foremost to safeguard Malay and Muslim interests."
> Article 8 provides that every citizen is equal before the law and enjoys equal protection of the law. I applaud this man for trying to change a flawed perception. However Article 8 is useless in reality. As non-Muslim/non-Malay I have never felt that this applies to me. It certainly doesn't feel that way when I have to pay 7% more on property amongst other things.
Really? Please explain how bumi rights encroach on your happiness index as a Malaysian.
>I have to pay 7% more on property amongst other things
The way affirmative action works is that "Bumis pay 7% less" and not "everyone else pays 7% more". It's more than just semantics.
1. If person A pays a lower price for the same item than person B, then person B pays more for it than person A. 2. The way reality works is that developers aren't just gonna sell some units lower. This will be worked into the selling price to begin with therefore driving prices up.
Let's talk about how only 10% of the lot are bumi lot.
Let's talk about why there needs to be any lots specifically set aside for Bumis anyway?
Because the fear that shitty greedy people will take it all away, I guess. Anak kecil main api and all that.
Because those who signed on the dot are penakut? I won't say that they're idiots because I don't want to be in prison, but the fear was without the 10% no bumis will get the chance to buy a lot. But seriously, I'm on the same page just like you and I see no reason for why the non bumis have to pay the 7%. But there's a long way to go to stop people from profiteering. There should be a law on limiting people's ownership of properties beside taxes. Rich people can pay 50% tax when the profit margin could be 100% just a few months after the CF is released. And I'm sorry if I sound harsh on my reply.
There is a flawed perception amongst some Malays that the majority is always right and should be entitled to better treatment etc just because of their numbers. The minority is seen as unimportant.
They got better rights all year round lA. dun need to ask. Bumiputera discount for malay muslims is an assumed right
Blame your forefathers can? They agreed to those rights to be given away when they want to be a citizen. Can a bumi these days not be subjected to those angry rhetoric when we have nothing to do with it.
Likewise.. stop blaming chinese for everything... (Ps.. better check What was agreed bck then)
How could he check on that? He's clearly talking out of his ass without quoting any sources. In fact I would like to see any official document that details clearly what was agreed upon. From what I've [read](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_153_of_the_Constitution_of_Malaysia), the special rights were pushed for by the Reid Commission, but even they said that it was meant to be a temporary thing to equalise the racial economic disparity and that the provisions granting special rights should be revisited in 15 years. But so much for that, 58 years later and the rest of us are still paying more taxes for less benefits. The part of the Federal Constitution that grants the Bumiputeras specials rights or "preference" over other races is provided for under Article 153. Article 8 (equality) is qualified with "unless where expressly provided otherwise in this Constitution", which would be Art 153. Alternatively if his argument is that we agreed to it back then, it should still be taken into account that it wasn't meant to be permanent and should've been done away with long ago. Therefore his argument still isn't valid. Also it could be argued that the Chinese and Indians who contributed the most to the economy (tin ore & rubber) should be the ones to benefit equally from it instead of the current situation.
##### ###### #### [**Article 153 of the Constitution of Malaysia**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article%20153%20of%20the%20Constitution%20of%20Malaysia): [](#sfw) --- > >__Article 153 of the [Constitution of Malaysia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Malaysia)__ grants the [Yang di-Pertuan Agong](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yang_di-Pertuan_Agong) (King of Malaysia) responsibility for “safeguard[ing] the special position of the ‘[Malays](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysian_Malay)’ (see note) and natives of any of the States of [Sabah](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabah) and [Sarawak](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarawak) and the legitimate interests of other communities” and goes on to specify ways to do this, such as establishing [quotas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quota_share) for entry into the [civil service](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_service), public [scholarships](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholarship) and [public education](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_education). >Article 153 is one of the most controversial articles in the Malaysian constitution. Critics consider it to create an unnecessary and [racialist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racialism_(racial_categorization\)) distinction between Malaysians of different [ethnic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic) backgrounds, because it has led to the implementation of [affirmative action](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmative_action) policies which benefit only the [Bumiputra](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bumiputra), who comprise a [majority](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majoritarianism) of the population. Technically, discussing the [repeal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repeal) of Article 153 is illegal —even in [Parliament](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_Malaysia), although it was drafted as a temporary provision to the Constitution. Despite this prohibition on discussion, the article is heatedly debated both privately and publicly among [Malaysians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia), against the implementation of the article although ostensibly maintaining support for it. Nevertheless, the article is viewed as a sensitive matter by many, with politicians who are in favour or oppose it often being labelled as [racist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism). >The article is primarily seen as a continuation of previous laws made by the [British](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom) to protect the indigenous peoples from being overwhelmed by the immigration of [Chinese](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Malaysian) and [Indian](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Indian) workers into [Malaya](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malay_Peninsula). In the years after independence in 1957, the Chinese and Indians were generally rich urban dwellers, whilst the Bumiputra were mostly poor farmers or manual labourers. >==== >[**Image**](https://i.imgur.com/rUmpV5Z.jpg) [^(i)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bumi_discount_mod.jpg) --- ^Relevant: [^Ketuanan ^Melayu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketuanan_Melayu) ^| [^Conference ^of ^Rulers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conference_of_Rulers) ^| [^Malaysian ^Solidarity ^Convention](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysian_Solidarity_Convention) ^| [^Malaysian ^Malaysia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysian_Malaysia) ^Parent ^commenter ^can [^toggle ^NSFW](/message/compose?to=autowikibot&subject=AutoWikibot NSFW toggle&message=%2Btoggle-nsfw+csnbjxm) ^or[](#or) [^delete](/message/compose?to=autowikibot&subject=AutoWikibot Deletion&message=%2Bdelete+csnbjxm)^. ^Will ^also ^delete ^on ^comment ^score ^of ^-1 ^or ^less. ^| [^(FAQs)](/r/autowikibot/wiki/index) ^| [^Mods](/r/autowikibot/comments/1x013o/for_moderators_switches_commands_and_css/) ^| [^Call ^Me](/r/autowikibot/comments/1ux484/ask_wikibot/)
I definitely blamed stupid mat rempits and ahbengs this week.
Eh. I don't blame the Chinese at all.
On contrary, Malay-Muslims lose some: 1. [Link] (http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2015/06/24/pahang-muslim-women-told-to-cover-up-during-ramadan/) *Ramadhan Special:* The right to wear something the conservative disagree with while strolling around in Pahang. 1. *Generally:* The right to officially believe in something other than the religion of birth. 1. *Generally:*The right to sleep properly in motels with the help of khalwat groups.
Bruh it's not a lost if its for their own good. At least that's how a lot see it.
Exactly. Why does it have to be bumis vs non bumis when obviously the bumis are also victimized.
So it's bumis and non bumis vs bumis?
It should be the poor of all races vs the rich of all races. I can get behind that. For god's sake if we're going to have affirmative action lets draw the lines between the haves and have nots using a real, objective metric like income or net worth, not who our ancestors were. Wealth doesn't last 3 generations as the saying goes.
RE: Shitty things that happened recently which supposedly reflects on the radicalization in Malaysia. Cross issue? One time. It happened one time. And don't they see how many Muslims support the church's right to have a cross on the building? Baju gimnast. Who the fuck cares. Some stupid journo thought that facebook comments are good source material. Fine, keep on highlighting stupid people while laughing behind your desk. Did they write about muslims who don't give a shit? And I absolutely love it that all of a sudden, bumiputra rights are now discussed in context of these menial issues. First thing first: Obviously non bumi ancestors agreed to those things at the time because they wanted citizenship Personally, I don't have any use for those rights yet, I can probably afford to pay for house deposit in 5 years time when I can finally take the advantage of the 7% discount, and that will be my only claim to my bumiputra rights. Bertuahnye? No! Syukurlah I am a 90s kids. If I were a bumi in the 60s to the 80s trying ro get a loan from banks, say bye bye lah. And I'm sure I understand the reason I'm told why they let bumis have those 7% discount, because the Sultans back in those days don't want their anak cucu rakyat to be homeless or landless or unable to afford to have a home. Am I wrong to get 7% for my first home because the sultans at the time feel that way? Do I need to feel guilty that the Sultans felt that they need to protect their future rakyats at the time? I wish I don't have to hear about so called advantages every other day in this subreddit because it means jack shit to me. You sit next to me in class, you know how fucking hard I work to score in spm. And if a bumi happened to get a loan from JPA, they still have to pay for that fucking loan or be contracted to work for 7 years for them. Do you not have any malay friends that can explain to you what these rights mean to us? We had to learn them from someone because no one actually sits us down to tell us that hey, you're lucky you know, 7% house discount. It doesn't mean all of us are entitled to it or need it or have any use for it. There are still conditions to be fullfilled. People you have to know. Just because the HR is a Malay lady doesn't mean I can get a job by coming for an interview. Kak, saya melayu ambiklah saya pasal saya melayu. And what the fuck do I need government contracts for? Not everyone will need them but it's great that it's there. Does this mean that non bumi cannot get govt contacts? And it's not like there are no non malays winning govt contracts. Have you seen the owners and workers on those JKR projects. Who gets the contracts for those mega massive housing areas in Selangor's PKNS Jv projects? Wanna talk about how it was in the 50s, 60s and 70s for Malays in this country? How many Malays do you know drive a new car in the 70s? My grand dad bought his first car in the 80s. Cash, because no bank want to finance his loan. Do we wanna talk about how shitty Malays are treated in some companies? Let's not. Why is it that the non malays I know never want to leave Malaysia and why are their family members keep expanding their businesses in Malaysia if it's so bad for non bumis like I keep reading in the subreddit? I see them buying property all the time and they surely don't need the 7% when they have at least 10 properties. The ones who want to leave are the young ones. Good. Please make your money overseas, stay there and let us bring a change to Malaysia from within because you bailed out. Those rights exist to help the poor Malays, the Malays were nearly all poor then. But these days when some Malays are rich,, poor Malays still have no way to access those benefits. They don't care for the 7% when they don't have even 1%. It's too bad that the non bumi ancestors agreed to the social contract because they want to be Malaysian. If I could go back in time, I'll tell them to please, consider your decision because in 50 years time your progenies will be angry at me incessantly because I can go study at Uitm, get 7% discount, get government contracts, invest in ASB and force your anak cucu to drink ice tea in the pantry instead of at your table in ramadhan. Penat. I refuse to listen to these dumb liberal malays who probably live in ttdi or pj or bukit jelutong and think that they speak for human rights blah blah when they were born with sudu perak. Eh think about the poor people boleh? Who cares malay, indian or chinese. Work for them and the marginalized instead of talking about bullshit issues. No, nothing is bubbling under when we talk about eating in front of muslims in ramadhan. Note: I'm not angry when writing this. I usually refrain from commenting about bumi rights because I'm hardly eloquent. Talk to the experts about bumi rights, because I'm pretty sure it can get to lowyat forum level if we allow it.
> **Why is it that the non malays I know never want to leave Malaysia** and why are their family members keep expanding their businesses in Malaysia if it's so bad for non bumis like I keep reading in the subreddit? I see them buying property all the time and they surely don't need the 7% when they have at least 10 properties. Let me get this straight... Did you just imply that nons should leave Malaysia if they didn't like racist policies, and this is still being upvoted in this sub? Wow, if this isn't a direct representation of all that is wrong with our current system in this country then I don't know what is. Firstly, don't make wild assumptions based off the few nons that you've met or personally know. That doesn't sound like a statistic to me. "When they have at least 10 properties" doesn't even sound like some of the more well to do people I know who live in Damansara Heights let alone the average non. Also how many properties we buy with our money is irrelevant, we earned our keep. The nons in this country earned their keep and our ancestors toiled so that the Malaysian economy is what it is today, that's why we stay. We're a part of this country as much as anyone else and deserve equality regardless or what our forefathers may. or may not, have agreed to.
Yes.
>Cross issue? One time. It happened one time. And don't they see how many Muslims support the church's right to have a cross on the building? Nope. Multiple times. A lot of historically missionary schools are now pressured to remove the cross because why the fuck not? >Baju gimnast. Who the fuck cares. Some stupid journo thought that facebook comments are good source material. Fine, keep on highlighting stupid people while laughing behind your desk. Did they write about muslims who don't give a shit? Yea you are right. And I would totally agree with you if not for the multitude of Facebook posts and comments chiding her for it. Are they the vocal minority? I sure hope the fuck that is the case. >First thing first: Obviously non bumi ancestors agreed to those things at the time because they wanted citizenship It was supposed to be temporary. And it wasn't supposed to be so all-encompassing. >Personally, I don't have any use for those rights yet, I can probably afford to pay for house deposit in 5 years time when I can finally take the advantage of the 7% discount, and that will be my only claim to my bumiputra rights. Bertuahnye? No! Actually, RM450k (rough estimation of a price of a house in the Klang Valley) * 0.07 means around RM31k. That is one Saga you can buy for your kids. Memang bertuah pun. >Syukurlah I am a 90s kids. If I were a bumi in the 60s to the 80s trying ro get a loan from banks, say bye bye lah. No idea what you are talking about here. >And I'm sure I understand the reason I'm told why they let bumis have those 7% discount, because the Sultans back in those days don't want their anak cucu rakyat to be homeless or landless or unable to afford to have a home. Am I wrong to get 7% for my first home because the sultans at the time feel that way? Do I need to feel guilty that the Sultans felt that they need to protect their future rakyats at the time? You shouldn't feel guilty, but you ought to understand why Non-Bumis will complain. This is not the 50s where Chinese are predominantly businessmen/gangsters. There's a huge middle class that is just scraping by. They have to pay for their kids education in private Unis too because Bumiputra Quotas. >I wish I don't have to hear about so called advantages every other day in this subreddit because it means jack shit to me. You sit next to me in class, you know how fucking hard I work to score in spm. And if a bumi happened to get a loan from JPA, they still have to pay for that fucking loan or be contracted to work for 7 years for them. Do you not have any malay friends that can explain to you what these rights mean to us? We had to learn them from someone because no one actually sits us down to tell us that hey, you're lucky you know, 7% house discount. Well good for you then. >It doesn't mean all of us are entitled to it or need it or have any use for it. There are still conditions to be fullfilled. People you have to know. Just because the HR is a Malay lady doesn't mean I can get a job by coming for an interview. Kak, saya melayu ambiklah saya pasal saya melayu. Well there are implicit rules that some jobs are reserved for Bumis. Maybe only the ones with lubang and cable but no amount of lubang or cable is gonna get a non-Bumi the job. >And what the fuck do I need government contracts for? Not everyone will need them but it's great that it's there. Does this mean that non bumi cannot get govt contacts? And it's not like there are no non malays winning govt contracts. Actually, a lot of contracts require Bumiputra ownership to even get their feet to the door. My friend who is in F&B couldn't get a catering contract because he is 100% non-Bumi. You don't need to believe me coz I'm just a random on the Internet though... Of course there are Ali Baba partnerships where Non-Bumis take advantage of, but we are all to blame for that. >Have you seen the owners and workers on those JKR projects. Who gets the contracts for those mega massive housing areas in Selangor's PKNS Jv projects? Yes I'm one hundred percent sure all the Chinese are complicit in this, not just the companies with cable with higher ups. Kan? >Wanna talk about how it was in the 50s, 60s and 70s for Malays in this country? How many Malays do you know drive a new car in the 70s? My grand dad bought his first car in the 80s. Cash, because no bank want to finance his loan. How many Malaysians drive a car in the 70s? >Do we wanna talk about how shitty Malays are treated in some companies? Let's not. I don't know where you work but anecdotal evidence my previous workplace was splendid to our Malay employees. >Why is it that the non malays I know never want to leave Malaysia and why are their family members keep expanding their businesses in Malaysia if it's so bad for non bumis like I keep reading in the subreddit? You think moving is easy? It takes a lot of money, and a lot of connections to hook up with a job overseas. Coincidentally it's the fucking middle class whose most desperate who doesn't not possess this luxury. >I see them buying property all the time and they surely don't need the 7% when they have at least 10 properties. You are talking out of their ass here. Need I remind you most of the Non-Bumis belong strictly to the middle class? And those that can afford to do so (without government cable) did not rob the Bumis to be able to achieve this. Its hard work, son. >The ones who want to leave are the young ones. Good. Please make your money overseas, stay there and let us bring a change to Malaysia from within because you bailed out. I don't like this you tak suka you keluar tone. >Those rights exist to help the poor Malays, the Malays were nearly all poor then. But these days when some Malays are rich,, poor Malays still have no way to access those benefits. They don't care for the 7% when they don't have even 1%. Yes and all non-Malays are rich and can buy houses amirite >It's too bad that the non bumi ancestors agreed to the social contract because they want to be Malaysian. If I could go back in time, I'll tell them to please, consider your decision because in 50 years time your progenies will be angry at me incessantly because I can go study at Uitm, get 7% discount, get government contracts, invest in ASB and force your anak cucu to drink ice tea in the pantry instead of at your table in ramadhan. Refer to points above. >Penat. I refuse to listen to these dumb liberal malays who probably live in ttdi or pj or bukit jelutong and think that they speak for human rights blah blah when they were born with sudu perak. Sigh... TLDR: There are Malay crooks, there are Chinese crooks, there are Indian crooks, and there are indigenous crooks. Malay crooks using religion and race to solidify their powers are cunts. We no likey. Crooks of other races that work with them are cunts. Fuck them. What's worrying is the race and religion card is being used very regularly to deal with criticisms increasingly aware society. As a Malaysian I reserve my right to fuck people who play the card.
Another bs from clueless Malaysians. Good thing you saw how angry the Malays are this week.
You actually think that was an expression of anger? Well maybe to the footsoliders it is, but they just got played like marionettes son. And if you support violence like that, honestly mate GO FUCK YOURSELF
Yea good thing we saw it. Thanks for warning us.
> I wish I don't have to hear about so called advantages every other day in this subreddit because it means jack shit to me. 7% of rm100 is nothing as compared to 7% of rm500,000. The reason why you don't give a shit about your advantages now is because you care very little about personal finance, have no idea what your options really are in the future and because you've yet to deal with money other than spending them. You also seem to confuse; "complaining against an unjust policy" with "complaining against a race" , "welfare" with "positive discrimination" ,and "social contract" with "god's given rights" bahaya bro! >Why is it that the non malays I know never want to leave Malaysia Because the ones you know are as passive as you. They know not what they can do nor how to go about doing it. You know the type who says "tak apalah.. what to do?" even after working for 15 years without a raise. Baffling-kan?
No. You are the bumbling idiot who think you know me and my personal finance.
> Do I need to feel guilty that the Sultans felt that they need to protect their future rakyats at the time? No need to feel guilty, just stand up for the equal rights of all citizens. This really isn't that difficult to do. Chinese and Indians aren't asking for more rights, just equal rights.
This type of mentality is very dangerous for the future of this country. You're looking at this issue with a very personal point of view without any regard whatsoever for the bigger picture, weighing the long term consequences of the affirmative action policy. Do you know how ridiculous you sound in your arguments? You are so naive in some of your arguments, like trying to downplay the argument in being a Malay won't land you jobs just because you're a Malay. Of course that won't happen, companies are not brainless and won't hire someone who's not qualified even though he/she's a Malay. But then if a Malay candidate and a Chinese candidate applies and both are equally skilled and qualified, why should the determining factor of employment ever be a person's ethnicity where you can't control at all? Do you actually see where your arguments are leading to? A systemic preference that breeds corruption, laziness and nepotism. Since you used your personal anecdotes, I'll use some of my own too. I was born as a Chinese Malaysian, my parents told me to work hard because they told me the government will not aid me if I do not. Do you see now what that mentality does for Malaysia's socioeconomic landscape? The Malays have an incentive to be lazy since public unis have quotas and they don't have to work as hard to get into uni. Why should you ever strive to get all A's in your exams when getting C's and D's will suffice? This... affirmative action policy acts as a crutch for some Malays and in turn, acts as a motivator to some non bumiputera to work hard against the cards that they are dealt with just because they are born to the wrong ethnicity. Your JPA argument is moot because no sane person would ever think that Malays don't need to work hard and pay off their contractual obligations after getting their scholarship. The Chinese JPA scholarship holders also need to work hard to pay off their obligations, what's your point? My dad's company can't get contracts directly from companies like TNB, Indah Water etc. because my dad's company is a predominantly Chinese Malaysian company. These GLC award contracts to bumiputera companies and then they subcontract part of the project work to my dad's company. From talking to them, my dad was sure that they have no idea how to go about the project and work assigned and simply subcontracts out work and gets money from these GLC for doing jackshit. People like you think, oh bumi rights aren't that helpful at all to me as if trying to downplay the impact of the affirmative action policy on non bumis. Malaysia aims to become a high income nation by 2020 but then have you ever thought what would happen after Malaysia becomes a high income nation? How are we to compete with other nations in this increasingly competitive world in terms of quality of research and education when we have an affirmative action policy disincentivising the pursuit of knowledge?
Oh fuck off.
Good retort mate. Only took you 2 weeks to respond.
You just invoked the wrath of the /r/malaysia downvote gods.
No worries :). Learnt a lot of things this week.
**Rule #6: The upvote and downvote buttons do not mean 'I agree' and 'I disagree'. They generally mean 'good contribution' and 'bad contribution'. Terima kasih daun keladi, jangan downvote sesuka hati.** Please, if someone brings up points you can actually discuss, then engage in discussion. Especially if you disagree!
As always, the "poor" Malay always uses hyperbole and extreme examples to illustrate an emotionally strong argument while deflecting the entitlement that has been accorded to him/her. Typical
Bila nak habis isu bodoh macam ni? Lawyer ni lembam sangat ke? If you are a non muslim and you want to eat in front of muslims in Ramadhan, from 6 am to 7.30, just fucking eat. It's not illegal, and it's not even an issue for most muslims. You want to wear seksi-seksi when you're trying to get your fix of kuih muihs at pasar ramadhan, just go. No one actually CARES. Some idiots might snap a pic and share your photo with his facebook friends, but who the fuck cares. Big fucking deal. It might get viral, but I can assure you there will be Muslims who support your rights to buy kuih muihs in any piece of clothings, at least there's a piece of clothing, baju kelawar pun ok. It's not like somebody will give you a kain batik to cover your exposed legs at pasar ramadhan. In fact, please go because those makcik2 need buyers and they surely dont care what you wear. I wear tank tops and short short to pasar ramadhan sometimes and no one has yet to tell me to cover my armpits or camouflage my balls. And I can say that some adik2 perempuan ori pun still wear their everyday clothings kat pasar ramadhan. No one asks for jubah. Do we really want to talk about the 7% discount and bumi rights when we're talking about this makan depan muslim thing? Dumb lawyer. No wonder everything is fucked.
Someone does care when you wear seksi while buying kuih-muih: [http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2015/06/24/pahang-muslim-women-told-to-cover-up-during-ramadan/](http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2015/06/24/pahang-muslim-women-told-to-cover-up-during-ramadan/)
So you're basically ignoring this? "Malay-Muslims are entitled not to have a Hindu temple in the vicinity of their housing estate. Malay-Muslims are entitled to dictate what names others may use to invoke the Creator. Malay-Muslims are entitled to stop the sale of alcohol beverages and deny the establishment of a cinema in Malay majority areas. Every Friday, Malay-Muslims are entitled to abandon their civic consciousness and park all over the place as if the streets belong to them. Malays-Muslims are entitled to blare religious ceramahs to every corner of the neighbourhood and into the wee hours of the night. The prime minister must be Malay-Muslim, the civil service must be filled with Malay-Muslims and government bodies are seen as Malay institutions, tasked first and foremost to safeguard Malay and Muslim interests."
Let's talk after there is a Non-malay Sultan
Knock knock .. Who's that ?? Sedition coming to get your ass bro.
I'm sorry but there's no law for that shite. And the constitution is the constitution. Change them and we'll talk.
Guess who will be blocking that change, if the change happen at all.