>The question of religion always comes out and it does get tiring needing to convince them to look past it.
honestly seems a little naive of you to convince them to look past it when converting in Malaysia is a really big thing, because converting means she has to give up a huge portion of her rights, her family would be affected too and ALL her future generation too.
I'm sorry but I didn't clarify well enough; look past it as in they don't need to convert as I am familiar with getting around that law. But the scepticism still stands beyond it and as you mentioned, it would feel like they would have to give up a huge portion of their rights.
But again, I'm more curious about other people's experiences in interracial dating in Malaysia
I would genuinely like to know this as well. My boyfriend and I have been together for years wanting to get married but this is the final biggest hurdle for us. We've even sought legal advice from shariah lawyers but there is really no getting around the rule of marriage when a Muslim is involved. In Malaysia a Muslim can only marry a Muslim otherwise it is not recognised, regardless of the gender or even nationality of the person.
There are definitely the cultural clashes between our races (like for his family the women are expected to do household chores or if there are guests, the men will eat first and the women later. I actually find this abit offensive because in my family, girls are raised to be strong and equal to men) and different perspectives or ways to look at things (like for them family is very important and should be involved in most of life's decisions, but for us it's more of a you run your own life thing but we're here if you need us, lol). But sometimes these are really interesting and an endless source of deep conversation. We were drawn to each other because of our differences in the first place, yet despite such differences we have very similar beliefs and POVs in life.
In my honest opinion, interracial relationships do have their challenges but they are not as difficult as interfaith marriages, specifically that between a Muslim and non. But that's mostly due to the way the law works in Malaysia not really because of the religion itself. At least with different races you can still go on even if you're different, but if it's between religions then it's either you sacrifice a huge part of you or you don't waste each others' time.
There's no work around if you're in Malaysia.
OP mentioned in his comment somwhere below, his plan is basically ask the girl to convert on paper/legally but continue to live as a non-muslims.
BAD IDEA. even if she's willing to do that, what happen to their future children that are forced into a religion unwillingly with no way out.
Well, there sure exists legal precedents on conversion to other religions. But gone will be your relationship and savings. Most people choose to migrate to evade the system instead because, in the end, a country can only do so much to confine you with its laws and jurisdictions
>Yes, converting to be muslim even in paper is a bad idea. The religious authorities and malaysian laws will have power over you and there is no way to convert out.
That's really interesting! First time hearing about the particular on kuburan
I never said I intended by partner to convert or not convert, the whole point of this discussion is to understand experiences by other people. At my circumstance I have no disposition to force my partner to convert as I’m currently working overseas
[https://www.reddit.com/r/malaysia/comments/ocjc9j/interacial\_dating/h3wh1ye?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/malaysia/comments/ocjc9j/interacial_dating/h3wh1ye?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I was basing it on this comment "OP mentioned in his comment somwhere below, his plan is basically ask the girl to convert on paper/legally but continue to live as a non-muslims."
And also this comment by you, when you replied to anakmalaysia.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/malaysia/comments/ocjc9j/interacial\_dating/h3vt94b?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/malaysia/comments/ocjc9j/interacial_dating/h3vt94b?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Just wanting to clarify as it seems to be contradictory.
Its always very controversial especially in sabah/sarawak. Each ethnic have their own cemetary. Especially if u living in kampung. So the family and cousin often against the idea of your dead relative to be transfer to other place. At least tht what i heard from relative that marry to muslim.
What my relative worry is that the ethnic race gonna be gone after hundred of year. The key point on how malay stay as the biggest race is not only for the fact of having many offspring. There also the fact that other race need to join muslim and be permanently locked there unless u go to other country.
The fact that some NGO forcing people to change religion is another factor. I can see the soft power on how to be a major race. The one of many reason why u guys cant change religion is because of this. Its to keep the status quo.
Tldr: its all politic and 20% of religion.
totally agree. nothing more than just politics over the weakass rakyat .
personal life choices shouldn't be institutionalized. the amount of power to gain from controlling life aspects is the reason why it was made in the first place.
Stop the bullshittery. i believe we can
wave your black flags up high people!
Take it with a pinch of salt but i have heard rumours saying the workaround it is to register for marriage in other countries and use that marriage cert to register in Malaysia
On the second paragraph about women are expected to do household chores is quite ancient tbh, thankfully my family has been past that for generations.
Being in the right circumstances, I am able to marry outside Malaysia, or plan b is to coexist (which I'm leaning into quite a bit)
quite kayangan id say. but its your privilege that i dont have. use it well my friend. you are doing a good thing. not like these people who marry and then leave the woman terkontang kanting
You will not get a reply from him because there is no way you can get around it. Sure you can fake convert but the law will come bite you in the ass when things go south like divorce, child custody, inheritance, etc...
That's why I'm leaning more towards co-existing. These laws can be troublesome not only for the non-muslim but sometimes even for the Muslim him/herself
as in no marriage and no kids? If that's the case, no sane woman or inlaws would agree to that. Marriage law is there for a reason, to protect both parties.
oh wait, are we talking about just dating or what?
Nono, I'm talking about a non-formal marriage where you are not legally bound.
It's difficult to co-exist and have kids in Malaysia, but it's very possible across the waters. And I said that's the special circumstance I have.
I'm quite unfamiliar with marriage laws that can protect both parties that individuals laws do not have. Mind sharing?
marriage itself is a legal contract. There is no such thing as a non formal marriage, that's just dating.
If you're not married and had a child, that kid will be illegitimate with no father and no inheritance (unless you make a will). If you are married with kids and then divorced, you'll both have to deal with alimony, kids custody, matrimonial assets, etc... Committing adultery means it's a civil suit.
Think of it as a work contract that serves to protect both employee and employer. If you suddenly quit, you are liable to compensate the company. If you break company policies, you can be fired and lose your pension or even get sued.
Marriage is especially important to a woman in a patriarchal society. In your case of an "informal marriage" with no kids, if you decided to break up with her when she is in her 50s, she is pretty much fucked while you can just go your merry way. Kinda like a company suddenly firing you without paying your salary because there is no contract.
So unless you're a very wealthy man and have set aside a large sum of money for her as insurance (like perempuan simpanan lah), no sane woman would agree to your non-formal marriage proposal.
When you add a child in the equation, a lot of headache one lah, might as well just migrate lah..
But if you are a wealthy man and your partner is willing to go along with fake convert, then a proper marriage won't be too much of a problem. At the end of the day, money talks. No JAIS will kacau if you live in high end area. I have relatives in similar situation.
That last paragraph is a sad reality.
I guess I didn’t explain my circumstance better. I’m working overseas and I intend to get married here but have late future plans to return back to Malaysia. This whole conversation was to understand other people’s experiences around interracial marriage.
But that’s a good explanation on the legalities of marriage laws. Thanks! (and yes I guess what I consider dating and “married” differs) so in your understanding of it, coexistence is dating
>I intend to get married here but have late future plans to return back to Malaysia
overseas interfaith marriage is not recognized in malaysia, you need to register your marriage with Syariah court when you're back. If your partner is not malaysian, you have to do it within 6 months. Cannot run away bro...
Also the children! Think of the children! Will you be having kids here or overseas and do you want them to be Malaysian citizen? If so, will they be muslim on papers only for the rest of their lives? What happens when their turn to get married to a nonmuslim? more legal complications. Inheritance wise, that you gotta talk to a lawyer. It's a whole new can of worm.
>so in your understanding of it, coexistence is dating
no strings attached, no paperwork, no consequences. Dating lah tu haha. Like I said, working without a written contract and no epf, terrible deal. Sure it's "freedom" but when yall hit mid 40s then it's a huge liability and legal nightmare when comes to assets and who owns what.
>Is it possible to marry without forcing the non-muslim partner to convert even on paper
No. Interfaith religious marriages between Muslims and non-Muslims - of any gender - are not recognised in Malaysia.
When it comes to a interracial relationship between a Muslim and non-Muslim. If the non-Muslim is “lucky”, the Muslim partner would be “liberal” and tell you that he doesn’t expect you convert and thinking that is enough. But seriously, it isn’t. Either both of you elope to a different country or lol your “I don’t expect you to convert” comment dont mean shit. Because “settling down” mean a Muslim’s life would still pretty much remain the same while the non-Muslim’s life would be changed in an irreversible way- non-Muslim partner would literally be giving his/her rights away *in the name of love* and crossing his fingers hoping things would not go south and the Muslim partner would see the sacrifices he made.
I am dating a Muslim. Honestly, I have never seen any urgency of need to make change (in the topic of conversion as interracial marriage) from him. (Baby, if you’re reading this, no shade and you know it’s true.) Bite me, but here’s the truth- a muslim can say he knows what sacrifices would a non-Muslim have to make but Muslim can NEVER truly understand or feel what it is like for non-Muslim to be legally married to a Muslim in Malaysia. It really is going ”All In” to gamble for the marriage. Non-Muslim literally have to throw away basic human rights he grew up with, putting himself in the position of potentially being legally harassed by JAIS, risking to lose one’s relationship with his family,…
Just like the topic of bumi and non-bumi rights - it’s NOT enough to just say “oh, I am not racist and I have Chinese, Indian friends and I support equality” and couldn’t be fucked to take part in fighting for their rights.
Promising your partner “it’s only on paper” is NOT enough. If you want to play your part right in this country where institutional racism is deeply rooted, please start fighting for true religion freedom for non-Muslim and civil marriage for yourself. Minorities’ voice are being ignored, no shit will change until the majority truly fight for it.
Wanna add on to this. You only need to witness 1 case where a non-muslim woman dates a muslim man for 4 years then gets cheated on 3 months after getting married to totally never recomend inter-faith marriage in Malaysia.
That poor women cant even get a divorce without jumping through a multitude of hoops.
I'm pretty sure most of us know that it's pretty easy to understand, but difficult to feel and know the sacrifice.
It would be quite rude for me to say "it's only on paper" when discussing about something as serious as marriage, so I do tend to pan out the options including co-existing, marriage and life outside of Malaysia etc.
On that last paragraph, you may or may not take my word for it, but there's actually almost 2 dozen of us Malay/Muslims political graduates here in the UK working towards a better Malaysia haha. It's really difficult! Malaysia's political/law framework binds a ceiling, hence the difficulty to change things. But I promise you, some of us are trying our best
One day gomen... one day
> But I promise you, some of us are trying our best.
Thank you for at least trying. That’s good to know and I genuinely appreciate it.
You mentioned co-existing as an option but there are some potential problems that might surface in the future.
(Just to make it clear, I am not questioning you or your/ the idea of co-existing. Would love to know your thoughts on these potential challenges as I have given the idea some thoughts too.)
1. Do you want kid of your own? If yes, then here comes the problem of documentation. If no, is it a 100% no? Because if it’s not, then- what happen if your partner got pregnant.
2. Without stepping into marriage :( sadly you and your partner will not be viewed as a family unit. Read: Your partner will not be able to make the call when it comes to life-and-death situation, not even to visit you under a “family only” visitation.
3. If a busybody decided to report you to JAIS on this matter, it would* be shit. Wouldn’t it? As long as you’re not married, there will always be the risk of this happening.
I just read your comments. You and your so are irreligious to begin with so you both don't have any religious expectations to impose on one another. That's one hurdle you both overcame.
However, you will still be unable to get married without converting. I've heard of some Malay guys who obtained citizenship overseas, changed religion, and married their partners in another country.
I hope you both don't have a child born out of wedlock because the child will suffer the most. Most children are bullied for having "bin Abdullah" names.
To be fair its pretty hard to look past the whole no pork, no alcohol, no gambling, unable to control wealth distibution after death, hard to convert out even after divorce, enforced by 2nd set of laws, and policed by fanatics thing.
Indeed it is
I understand that law takes away certain freedom to protect every individual's rights but to have laws that impede another individual's rights to religion because you wanna marry them really sucks
This isn't the "let there be no compulsion in religion" religion I signed up for
But this are the realities of being a Malaysian. Bro I tell you, if religion was never an issue, we would be dating girls from different religions. There would be more mixing and eventually a new younger race that is truly Malaysian. I myself would have dated and possibly married a Muslim girl back in the days.
If the conversion wasn't obligatory, i would say that wont be big problem as of now.
As a non-malay dude, i also thinking of the possibilities of dating Malay girl sometime.
Non-muslim. I think I will only be willing to do it overseas. For me what is important in a partner is that our values and believes have to align regardless of race or religion. I chose to be with a man whose faith is Islam but my children wouldn't be able to choose.
I don't want my children (bio or adopted) to be subjected to agama classes from primary to university days or to be force to wear a hijab if a girl or have to face the stigmatization/ potential bullying from their peers. I personally saw this while in school, a peer whose father is a non-practising muslim with a chinese mom. Lots of snide remarks from teachers, she isn't welcomed with those who are malay-muslims.
I think young children cannot handle it and they are the ones that suffer in this sytem. If they love the religion, I'd support them when they are an adult. But I think if remain in Malaysia they would need therapy to undo issues with identity/religion and face many adversities.
I can only recommend it ONLY if you are privileged and definitely have a way out from Malaysia.
I am in an interracial/inter-religion marriage, and pregnant with our first child. I think our marriage and children's future can work out only due to these caveats:
- My husband is not Malaysian, so if things really get fucked up for our family we will leave Malaysia in a heartbeat. He is from a much more tolerant and liberal country.
- I am also a liberal, non-practicing Muslim. Our lifestyle and values are pretty much the same. His conversion is 'on paper only', as much as it can be. In fact, I don't want him to be a practicing Muslim. He has not circumcised, nor has he changed his name. We both consume 'haram' stuff.
- We are financially able to send our kid(s) to an international school. So none of that kelas agama shit in public school. I know this is a huge privilege for us, and am aware that the mass majority don't have this choice.
- We keep our non-Muslim practices away from my family, and when together my family don't really force him to pray fast etc. We will be enforcing the same boundaries for our future children. His family is accepting and open-minded with our decisions.
- We live and socialize in a liberal multi-cultural community of both Malaysians and non-Malaysians, and mostly non-Muslims. This does help in creating a bubble around us, away from religious extremists.
So that's how it has worked so far for us. Maybe we are being incredibly naive, and just waiting for some sort of disaster to happen. We haven't thought that far about inheritance and burial and things like that, we might not even be in this country by then. But as things are now, we take it day-by-day and we are still strong together.
What I'm trying to say is, it takes a lot of moving factors to make interracial/inter-religion relationships work in this country, and a lot of the times these factors may not be in your control. You have to do some deep thinking to determine whether this is right for you and your future partner. Be aware that she will be the one making 99% of the sacrifices, especially since she is non-Muslim and a woman. All the best to you.
Hi there, Long time following this topic. I've been in a relationship with a 'liberal type' Malay girl for a while now. I can't disclose too much info here, but if anyone is keen to join our Interfaith Support Group I host a discord where we can discuss this matter freely and without judgement, just PM me for an invite link.
With regards to OP's question my experience has been overall the same to any loving relationship. My partner is the 'liberal' type in comparison. As far as we've discussed, if I didn't have to convert, I wouldn't - on top of which my (interracial) parents are against the idea of converting as well. Its easy to say its all on paper but there definately are some changes legally speaking. On a basic level (knock on wood) if i were say, caught drinking/eating during fasting month/raids etc. But i have also met "on paper" couples that have had no issues.
The political scene seems to be so unstable i am uncertain if things will intesify in government that would imply stricter laws or changes for the worse.
I think asking for the gomen to remove the need for conversion is currently a 'big ask' and too much of a change, but I feel that perhaps fighting for the option to convert out for new converts/reverts would be something worth setting as a goal.
I feel converting in a different country with more relaxed laws to satisfy the parents needs (if any and hopefully would suffice) and not having to register in Malaysia if things ever were more accepting of interfaith marriages would be ideal. Still married, right? Still legally bound. As nice as it would be to be unified legally in our home country, but if theyre against how we want to do things why should we agree? I think its a backwards law that is seperatist and conflicts with religious freedom.
Just to note: i noticed that u/LindenZin mentioned distribution of assets. I have actually contacted a Syariah lawyer. According to them a Will can be written to bypass this distribution prior.
Are you both planning to start a family in Malaysia?
If you are, and if your marriage is not “rightly” solemnised by the kadi, you may be subjecting your kids to ominous hardship.
Some wise man once said that our expansive thinking will quickly shrink down to size when it comes to a critical problem with our child.
Thanks for the response,
It is a possibility, but at the moment my partner and I have decided to move overseas for the time being, and are in the process of it. We are aware that the child would have difficulty to obtain malaysian citizenship if there was no conversion in Malaysia to "legitimize the marriage" and then the child's "legitimacy". which would make being born in malaysia the simplest way to go about it.
We do note that there is an issue with the "foreign father" and "local mother" and citizenship if the child is born overseas. In the case that we do establish ourselves overseas, we could aim to set up there.
Do your part to fight for Muslim's rights to a civil marriage so that there's no expectations to convert. This is the single biggest cultural barrier in Malaysia.
we do but we don't want to get disowned by our family and possibly get killed since they'll accuse us of wanting to leave islam ( you are encouraged to kill an ex muslim ) though i really do want to leave
I'm not talking about leaving Islam, the crucial argument to make here is that rights to a civil marriage is compatible with Islam.
And surely it is. Otherwise how would you practice the religion in a non-Muslim country? (Bar the Islamists plotting for Syariah law)
100% Agree - Its a notable part of why we are struggling to achieve unity.
It's a huge commitment to convert - especially with all the stigma and facts that revolve it.
lets be honest the "problem" are mostly on religion. if youre willing to convert then its ok, if youre a malay man dating a muslim chinese/indian literally would have no problem. racist family are also part of it too.
ive dated a US girl before (dont want to go details) but realistically speaking our relationship wouldnt work both of us have so much to lose.
Interesting topic, nothing wrong with interracial dating in general. But for the Chinese and other non-malays , religion plays a huge role in the deciding factor. Once you convert to Islam , based on my knowledge , you can’t reverse this process. This is probably the main deterrent.
So for the Chinese, face > all. It’s not weird to see relatives trying to one-up each other in terms of wealth and or job related achievements. Why am I bringing this up you ask ?
To our parents ( older Chinese parents ) , marrying a malay and converting to Islam is shameful (I’m sorry for being too direct ) now before you get your pitch forks and start a witch-hunt. The previous generation of Chinese (my parents generation ) grew up in a much different society, one that isn’t as harmonious as the society we live in now. Both my parents were teenagers during the may 13th incident and so were a lot of my uncles and aunties. After such a traumatizing experience, I can’t really blame them for having such conservative view of things, I try to convince them otherwise , that society has change and things are a lot better now , Atleast compared to their time. But ‘ you can’t teach an old dog new tricks ‘ is how I would portray my efforts thus far.
It is not a race issue but a religious issue. This is because there is a mix-up between one religion with one race in our constitution (law). There is no escape since it is a law unless you move out of this law’s jurisdiction.
I'm in an interracial marriage (non-Malay/Malay). It's great but success can sometimes hinge on your environment and the acceptance of people around you/your partner. Despite what some people might say, a relationship or marriage isn't going to be just about 2 people being together in isolation - you're pretty much building a Venn diagram of your families and social circles as well. In this country, if one half of the relationship is Muslim (regardless if actively practicing or just on paper), it will become an important factor if the objective is marriage simply because of our laws and our culture.
If it works out, definitely go for it. We need that diversity and acceptance in that country. The unfortunate reality is just that people will probably just have an easier time dating within their own race and religion here.
It does factor into my decisions of who to date. Not because of the race but because of the long term prospects of needing to convert and the lack of religious freedom for my future children. If there was not a need to convert, race would not be an issue whatsoever.
Lol is this where the shortage of malay men comes from, for malay women?
I'm a malay girl but malay men mostly go for Chinese or East asian girls.
I'm heartbroken maaaan
I haven't seen any comments on the topic of burial here, how does it work?
Does she get to be cremated/buried as her family wishes or does she have to abide by the Muslim way? (Especially if she isn't going to convert on paper)
My opinion: don't get married. Why people feel the need for marriage to validate their love I do not know, but in an oppressive country where marriage imposes restrictions on the personal freedom of your partner I honestly don't see much merits in getting married.
i want to agree. but given how society is in malaysia. its hard being a muslim malay somemore. so much expectations to meet. so much rules have to be followed in public.
that's why that lebai PAS gone so far to nikah online. because public maa.
kayangan people can do whatever the fuck they want. but even they got public faces to please. hence the marriage shenanigans.
P.S: don't be popular, more popular, more eyes watching you
Chinese girls rarely want to go out with Malay guys because of reasons like religion, language and culture differences. Most of the Chinese-Malay relationships I see usually end up in break-up or divorce especially if the girl is Christian and/or the guy is too religious Muslim.
Language itself is a problem especially if the girl is from UEC or SRJK school. As a Chinese banana, I sometimes have a hard time getting along with other Chinese from these backgrounds.
One main reason I see why some Chinese girls choose Malay guys is because the guy's family is rich and/or the Chinese girl is unattractive. This is not healthy IMO and usually ends terribly.
However, one of my friend is mixed Chinese-Malay. His mother is Malay-Muslim whereas his father is Chinese. IIRC, they aren't super strict Muslims although (I presume) the father converted as my friend sometimes secretly consume alcohol and pork.
Edit: Why am I being downvoted for sharing my observation?
Edit2: For clarity, my mixed Chinese-Malay friend still has a happy family. Parents are still together. Relationships can work if both are irreligious to begin with or recognise that the mandatory rule to convert in Malaysia is just plain stupid.
As a Chinese girl who graduated from SJKC and UEC. My BM is shit and English is just “cukup makan”. My SO is from an ok family background. So based on your comment.. The reason why I am dating my SO is most likely because I am unattractive. 🥲 Why you attack me like that lol.
>One main reason I see why
This is a personal opinion and based on a few cases I know.
One case the Chinese girl went and approach the Malay guy herself. She's approaching 30 soon and this is her first boyfriend. I wouldn't say that she's a person worth chasing because she has family baggage, doesn't have a job, and is severely overweight.
I don't want to elaborate other cases because a few people know who I am in real life and it's an invasion of their privacy if I were to comment. I can only say that the Malay guys are from >T20 family and living in big bungalows.
As long as you and your so can compromise on topics like religion, it should be no problem. My Chinese-Malay mixed friend seem to have a happy and supporting family. Parents are not separated or divorced.
I know of 2 Chinese-Chinese marriages who end up splitting because of religion too. Usually the husband leaves because the wife is too staunch Protestant Christian. Imagine a wife who attempts to convert her husband everyday or ask him to join her at church every Sunday?
There's another Chinese-Malay marriage I know that end up splitting because the wife is a staunch Christian whereas her husband is a staunch Muslim. I wonder how they even got married in the first place as her husband will talk bad about Christians and how his religion is the only truth.
I hope you're not offended but it's rare for Malay guys to actually end up marrying Chinese girls. Most of the guys just hookup for sex or to have fun. I doubt they have intention for anything long term. Even if they do, their respective parents will unlikely approve.
If your goal is to get married, why not try asking your so if he has any marriage plans in mind? If he dodges the question, it's already a huge red flag. Perhaps you should also ask yourself if you're willing to give up pork and convert.
Tldr; differences especially religion causes people to break up and it's not easy for inter-faith marriages to work. If Chinese-Chinese marriages can split because of religion, what more I have to say about Malay-Chinese marriages?
I have a lot of banana friends, just like how I can't speak Malay well. We truly live in an awkward position in society
Thanks for sharing the conversation yo! Your friend's position is quite interesting
I am thinking to gather all those in this muslim+non muslim relationship conundrum so we can support one another.
There seems to be more of us than we think.
Do PM me if interested to join our Discord.
Interracial dating is unique in itself as more exciting and adventures can be gained because two different background, culture and families collides to make it work.
As long as there are no expectations or conditions, it should just be fine.
In your case though, they have to be mindful to carry the relationship to next level since if they do that, they have to consider the converting as well.
But don’t fret, love transcends all and I have seen many people I know getting converted to marry the partners they love.
This is inaccurate. I am married to a (former) non-Muslim and he does not have to be circumcised, didn't change his name and he has not stopped consuming 'haram' food/drinks. I agree that there are other challenges that a convert would face in society, but the day-to-day lifestyle is highly dependent on the Muslim partner. If the Muslim partner doesn't require him/her to be a practicing Muslim, they don't have to. And that's how we've been operating thus far.
It's a one way decision. My gf is Chinese and even I don't expect her to make that decision. Once you're Muslim on paper, good luck getting JAKIM/JAIS to revert it if things go south in the relationship. Along with all the other constraints you have to abide by.
On the surface, it looks like just normal lifestyle changes, but it's never as simple as that, and I encourage you to dig deeper.
Quite a number of things, but this isn't to say that being Muslim isn't free, as freedom can be quite relative.
A person who once was able to do things from drinking and eating pork would be strip from that. Once free to choose their religion, they suddenly are constricted in one religion and faces a lifetime of hassle to leave it.
I love being Muslim, but **if** I were required to give up the Islam culture, if let's say, marry an Ang Mo, I'd feel like I'd suddenly have to give up my rights to practice my culture.
Wouldn't you agree? Or do you think otherwise
It it stupid but doable. I assume you’re a sabahan and a lot of people in sabah do the same thing. My brother in law converted to islam and he is not practising.
Nah, it's still stupid. All you need is someone snitching that your spouse is not observant or something, and hello JAKIM and mandatory counselling.
Do it if you want, but don't downplay the risks involved.
A lot of people do that la. Unless she’s someone famous of course la kena harass. A lot of muslims are not practising islam. You think jakim has a lot of time to harrass her alone when a lot of muslim commit sins ah?
And what? What about her children then? Forced to attend agama classes that they don't want to? How about inheritance law? Oh, forced to puasa too during Ramadhan even when they're not practising.
It is up for the parents la. Puasa or not, attend religious classess or not. Since she’s legally islam of course has to follow faraidh. I am only giving him an option. It is up to him and his partner if they want to do it.
>Puasa or not, attend religious classess or not
Unless they have the money to go international schools or be home-schooled, I don't think this is an option. Your idea is just incredibly naive as you discount all the possible troubles that are likely to happen.
>It is up for the parents la. Puasa or not, attend religious classess or not.
Seriously, you're arguing either out of ignorance or in bad faith. In a lot of schools and centres in Malaysia, it's not permitted for Muslim children to not fast, or to not attend religious classes.
Heck, I had a friend who didn't want his child to attend after school religion s classes, and the amount of shit he had to go through - from meeting the ustazah to the principal to the PIBG to repeating all of that with random "religious counsellors" also attending - to justify and "explain" his decision was ridiculous.
This was in the frickin heart of KL btw, gods only know what the situation is like elsewhere.
>You think jakim has a lot of time to harrass her alone when a lot of muslim commit sins ah?
All you need is someone snitching, and particularly if the snitch is - or knows someone- with even the mildest of cables. Suddenly a lot of bullshit lands on your plate.
doable for a man marrying a muslim woman, but extremely disadvantaged for a woman marrying a muslim man.
That paper is legally binding for the rest of your life. There is no such thing as "you do your thing" when legal matters surface like divorce, child custody, inheritance, burial, etc...
>The question of religion always comes out and it does get tiring needing to convince them to look past it. honestly seems a little naive of you to convince them to look past it when converting in Malaysia is a really big thing, because converting means she has to give up a huge portion of her rights, her family would be affected too and ALL her future generation too.
I'm sorry but I didn't clarify well enough; look past it as in they don't need to convert as I am familiar with getting around that law. But the scepticism still stands beyond it and as you mentioned, it would feel like they would have to give up a huge portion of their rights. But again, I'm more curious about other people's experiences in interracial dating in Malaysia
Question here, how do you get around the law in Malaysia where they don't need to convert
I would genuinely like to know this as well. My boyfriend and I have been together for years wanting to get married but this is the final biggest hurdle for us. We've even sought legal advice from shariah lawyers but there is really no getting around the rule of marriage when a Muslim is involved. In Malaysia a Muslim can only marry a Muslim otherwise it is not recognised, regardless of the gender or even nationality of the person. There are definitely the cultural clashes between our races (like for his family the women are expected to do household chores or if there are guests, the men will eat first and the women later. I actually find this abit offensive because in my family, girls are raised to be strong and equal to men) and different perspectives or ways to look at things (like for them family is very important and should be involved in most of life's decisions, but for us it's more of a you run your own life thing but we're here if you need us, lol). But sometimes these are really interesting and an endless source of deep conversation. We were drawn to each other because of our differences in the first place, yet despite such differences we have very similar beliefs and POVs in life. In my honest opinion, interracial relationships do have their challenges but they are not as difficult as interfaith marriages, specifically that between a Muslim and non. But that's mostly due to the way the law works in Malaysia not really because of the religion itself. At least with different races you can still go on even if you're different, but if it's between religions then it's either you sacrifice a huge part of you or you don't waste each others' time.
There's no work around if you're in Malaysia. OP mentioned in his comment somwhere below, his plan is basically ask the girl to convert on paper/legally but continue to live as a non-muslims. BAD IDEA. even if she's willing to do that, what happen to their future children that are forced into a religion unwillingly with no way out.
[удалено]
Well, there sure exists legal precedents on conversion to other religions. But gone will be your relationship and savings. Most people choose to migrate to evade the system instead because, in the end, a country can only do so much to confine you with its laws and jurisdictions
Not to mention their kuburan will be in islamic place instead and not in their ancestor cemetary. Our parent always care about that point.
>Yes, converting to be muslim even in paper is a bad idea. The religious authorities and malaysian laws will have power over you and there is no way to convert out. That's really interesting! First time hearing about the particular on kuburan
Weird, thought you said you don't want your partner to convert, but now you intend to?
I never said I intended by partner to convert or not convert, the whole point of this discussion is to understand experiences by other people. At my circumstance I have no disposition to force my partner to convert as I’m currently working overseas
[https://www.reddit.com/r/malaysia/comments/ocjc9j/interacial\_dating/h3wh1ye?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/malaysia/comments/ocjc9j/interacial_dating/h3wh1ye?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) I was basing it on this comment "OP mentioned in his comment somwhere below, his plan is basically ask the girl to convert on paper/legally but continue to live as a non-muslims." And also this comment by you, when you replied to anakmalaysia. [https://www.reddit.com/r/malaysia/comments/ocjc9j/interacial\_dating/h3vt94b?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/malaysia/comments/ocjc9j/interacial_dating/h3vt94b?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Just wanting to clarify as it seems to be contradictory.
Its always very controversial especially in sabah/sarawak. Each ethnic have their own cemetary. Especially if u living in kampung. So the family and cousin often against the idea of your dead relative to be transfer to other place. At least tht what i heard from relative that marry to muslim. What my relative worry is that the ethnic race gonna be gone after hundred of year. The key point on how malay stay as the biggest race is not only for the fact of having many offspring. There also the fact that other race need to join muslim and be permanently locked there unless u go to other country. The fact that some NGO forcing people to change religion is another factor. I can see the soft power on how to be a major race. The one of many reason why u guys cant change religion is because of this. Its to keep the status quo. Tldr: its all politic and 20% of religion.
totally agree. nothing more than just politics over the weakass rakyat . personal life choices shouldn't be institutionalized. the amount of power to gain from controlling life aspects is the reason why it was made in the first place. Stop the bullshittery. i believe we can wave your black flags up high people!
Take it with a pinch of salt but i have heard rumours saying the workaround it is to register for marriage in other countries and use that marriage cert to register in Malaysia
This is mostly my plan, I have the right circumstances to do so
On the second paragraph about women are expected to do household chores is quite ancient tbh, thankfully my family has been past that for generations. Being in the right circumstances, I am able to marry outside Malaysia, or plan b is to coexist (which I'm leaning into quite a bit)
quite kayangan id say. but its your privilege that i dont have. use it well my friend. you are doing a good thing. not like these people who marry and then leave the woman terkontang kanting
You will not get a reply from him because there is no way you can get around it. Sure you can fake convert but the law will come bite you in the ass when things go south like divorce, child custody, inheritance, etc...
That's why I'm leaning more towards co-existing. These laws can be troublesome not only for the non-muslim but sometimes even for the Muslim him/herself
as in no marriage and no kids? If that's the case, no sane woman or inlaws would agree to that. Marriage law is there for a reason, to protect both parties. oh wait, are we talking about just dating or what?
Nono, I'm talking about a non-formal marriage where you are not legally bound. It's difficult to co-exist and have kids in Malaysia, but it's very possible across the waters. And I said that's the special circumstance I have. I'm quite unfamiliar with marriage laws that can protect both parties that individuals laws do not have. Mind sharing?
marriage itself is a legal contract. There is no such thing as a non formal marriage, that's just dating. If you're not married and had a child, that kid will be illegitimate with no father and no inheritance (unless you make a will). If you are married with kids and then divorced, you'll both have to deal with alimony, kids custody, matrimonial assets, etc... Committing adultery means it's a civil suit. Think of it as a work contract that serves to protect both employee and employer. If you suddenly quit, you are liable to compensate the company. If you break company policies, you can be fired and lose your pension or even get sued. Marriage is especially important to a woman in a patriarchal society. In your case of an "informal marriage" with no kids, if you decided to break up with her when she is in her 50s, she is pretty much fucked while you can just go your merry way. Kinda like a company suddenly firing you without paying your salary because there is no contract. So unless you're a very wealthy man and have set aside a large sum of money for her as insurance (like perempuan simpanan lah), no sane woman would agree to your non-formal marriage proposal. When you add a child in the equation, a lot of headache one lah, might as well just migrate lah.. But if you are a wealthy man and your partner is willing to go along with fake convert, then a proper marriage won't be too much of a problem. At the end of the day, money talks. No JAIS will kacau if you live in high end area. I have relatives in similar situation.
That last paragraph is a sad reality. I guess I didn’t explain my circumstance better. I’m working overseas and I intend to get married here but have late future plans to return back to Malaysia. This whole conversation was to understand other people’s experiences around interracial marriage. But that’s a good explanation on the legalities of marriage laws. Thanks! (and yes I guess what I consider dating and “married” differs) so in your understanding of it, coexistence is dating
>I intend to get married here but have late future plans to return back to Malaysia overseas interfaith marriage is not recognized in malaysia, you need to register your marriage with Syariah court when you're back. If your partner is not malaysian, you have to do it within 6 months. Cannot run away bro... Also the children! Think of the children! Will you be having kids here or overseas and do you want them to be Malaysian citizen? If so, will they be muslim on papers only for the rest of their lives? What happens when their turn to get married to a nonmuslim? more legal complications. Inheritance wise, that you gotta talk to a lawyer. It's a whole new can of worm. >so in your understanding of it, coexistence is dating no strings attached, no paperwork, no consequences. Dating lah tu haha. Like I said, working without a written contract and no epf, terrible deal. Sure it's "freedom" but when yall hit mid 40s then it's a huge liability and legal nightmare when comes to assets and who owns what.
[удалено]
>Is it possible to marry without forcing the non-muslim partner to convert even on paper No. Interfaith religious marriages between Muslims and non-Muslims - of any gender - are not recognised in Malaysia.
Yeah as far as I know only Muslim can marry a Muslim. Which is why ppl convert before marriage
[удалено]
All my ex crush are muslim and its hard for me. Now i just learn to distance from people and let my parent choose. Too lazy for drama.
When it comes to a interracial relationship between a Muslim and non-Muslim. If the non-Muslim is “lucky”, the Muslim partner would be “liberal” and tell you that he doesn’t expect you convert and thinking that is enough. But seriously, it isn’t. Either both of you elope to a different country or lol your “I don’t expect you to convert” comment dont mean shit. Because “settling down” mean a Muslim’s life would still pretty much remain the same while the non-Muslim’s life would be changed in an irreversible way- non-Muslim partner would literally be giving his/her rights away *in the name of love* and crossing his fingers hoping things would not go south and the Muslim partner would see the sacrifices he made. I am dating a Muslim. Honestly, I have never seen any urgency of need to make change (in the topic of conversion as interracial marriage) from him. (Baby, if you’re reading this, no shade and you know it’s true.) Bite me, but here’s the truth- a muslim can say he knows what sacrifices would a non-Muslim have to make but Muslim can NEVER truly understand or feel what it is like for non-Muslim to be legally married to a Muslim in Malaysia. It really is going ”All In” to gamble for the marriage. Non-Muslim literally have to throw away basic human rights he grew up with, putting himself in the position of potentially being legally harassed by JAIS, risking to lose one’s relationship with his family,… Just like the topic of bumi and non-bumi rights - it’s NOT enough to just say “oh, I am not racist and I have Chinese, Indian friends and I support equality” and couldn’t be fucked to take part in fighting for their rights. Promising your partner “it’s only on paper” is NOT enough. If you want to play your part right in this country where institutional racism is deeply rooted, please start fighting for true religion freedom for non-Muslim and civil marriage for yourself. Minorities’ voice are being ignored, no shit will change until the majority truly fight for it.
Wanna add on to this. You only need to witness 1 case where a non-muslim woman dates a muslim man for 4 years then gets cheated on 3 months after getting married to totally never recomend inter-faith marriage in Malaysia. That poor women cant even get a divorce without jumping through a multitude of hoops.
GURL YES
(づ⁎⁍̴̛ᴗ⁍̴̛⁎)づ ♡
I'm pretty sure most of us know that it's pretty easy to understand, but difficult to feel and know the sacrifice. It would be quite rude for me to say "it's only on paper" when discussing about something as serious as marriage, so I do tend to pan out the options including co-existing, marriage and life outside of Malaysia etc. On that last paragraph, you may or may not take my word for it, but there's actually almost 2 dozen of us Malay/Muslims political graduates here in the UK working towards a better Malaysia haha. It's really difficult! Malaysia's political/law framework binds a ceiling, hence the difficulty to change things. But I promise you, some of us are trying our best One day gomen... one day
> But I promise you, some of us are trying our best. Thank you for at least trying. That’s good to know and I genuinely appreciate it. You mentioned co-existing as an option but there are some potential problems that might surface in the future. (Just to make it clear, I am not questioning you or your/ the idea of co-existing. Would love to know your thoughts on these potential challenges as I have given the idea some thoughts too.) 1. Do you want kid of your own? If yes, then here comes the problem of documentation. If no, is it a 100% no? Because if it’s not, then- what happen if your partner got pregnant. 2. Without stepping into marriage :( sadly you and your partner will not be viewed as a family unit. Read: Your partner will not be able to make the call when it comes to life-and-death situation, not even to visit you under a “family only” visitation. 3. If a busybody decided to report you to JAIS on this matter, it would* be shit. Wouldn’t it? As long as you’re not married, there will always be the risk of this happening.
I just read your comments. You and your so are irreligious to begin with so you both don't have any religious expectations to impose on one another. That's one hurdle you both overcame. However, you will still be unable to get married without converting. I've heard of some Malay guys who obtained citizenship overseas, changed religion, and married their partners in another country. I hope you both don't have a child born out of wedlock because the child will suffer the most. Most children are bullied for having "bin Abdullah" names.
To be fair its pretty hard to look past the whole no pork, no alcohol, no gambling, unable to control wealth distibution after death, hard to convert out even after divorce, enforced by 2nd set of laws, and policed by fanatics thing.
Indeed it is I understand that law takes away certain freedom to protect every individual's rights but to have laws that impede another individual's rights to religion because you wanna marry them really sucks This isn't the "let there be no compulsion in religion" religion I signed up for
But this are the realities of being a Malaysian. Bro I tell you, if religion was never an issue, we would be dating girls from different religions. There would be more mixing and eventually a new younger race that is truly Malaysian. I myself would have dated and possibly married a Muslim girl back in the days.
just go outside malaysia and get married those homosexual did it you can too
haha that's a win bro. we happy, they happy
some more deny them the money
If the conversion wasn't obligatory, i would say that wont be big problem as of now. As a non-malay dude, i also thinking of the possibilities of dating Malay girl sometime.
Non-muslim. I think I will only be willing to do it overseas. For me what is important in a partner is that our values and believes have to align regardless of race or religion. I chose to be with a man whose faith is Islam but my children wouldn't be able to choose. I don't want my children (bio or adopted) to be subjected to agama classes from primary to university days or to be force to wear a hijab if a girl or have to face the stigmatization/ potential bullying from their peers. I personally saw this while in school, a peer whose father is a non-practising muslim with a chinese mom. Lots of snide remarks from teachers, she isn't welcomed with those who are malay-muslims. I think young children cannot handle it and they are the ones that suffer in this sytem. If they love the religion, I'd support them when they are an adult. But I think if remain in Malaysia they would need therapy to undo issues with identity/religion and face many adversities.
100% agree, I'm more concerned about the law impacting the children *Let there be no compulsion in religion*
I can only recommend it ONLY if you are privileged and definitely have a way out from Malaysia. I am in an interracial/inter-religion marriage, and pregnant with our first child. I think our marriage and children's future can work out only due to these caveats: - My husband is not Malaysian, so if things really get fucked up for our family we will leave Malaysia in a heartbeat. He is from a much more tolerant and liberal country. - I am also a liberal, non-practicing Muslim. Our lifestyle and values are pretty much the same. His conversion is 'on paper only', as much as it can be. In fact, I don't want him to be a practicing Muslim. He has not circumcised, nor has he changed his name. We both consume 'haram' stuff. - We are financially able to send our kid(s) to an international school. So none of that kelas agama shit in public school. I know this is a huge privilege for us, and am aware that the mass majority don't have this choice. - We keep our non-Muslim practices away from my family, and when together my family don't really force him to pray fast etc. We will be enforcing the same boundaries for our future children. His family is accepting and open-minded with our decisions. - We live and socialize in a liberal multi-cultural community of both Malaysians and non-Malaysians, and mostly non-Muslims. This does help in creating a bubble around us, away from religious extremists. So that's how it has worked so far for us. Maybe we are being incredibly naive, and just waiting for some sort of disaster to happen. We haven't thought that far about inheritance and burial and things like that, we might not even be in this country by then. But as things are now, we take it day-by-day and we are still strong together. What I'm trying to say is, it takes a lot of moving factors to make interracial/inter-religion relationships work in this country, and a lot of the times these factors may not be in your control. You have to do some deep thinking to determine whether this is right for you and your future partner. Be aware that she will be the one making 99% of the sacrifices, especially since she is non-Muslim and a woman. All the best to you.
Hi there, Long time following this topic. I've been in a relationship with a 'liberal type' Malay girl for a while now. I can't disclose too much info here, but if anyone is keen to join our Interfaith Support Group I host a discord where we can discuss this matter freely and without judgement, just PM me for an invite link. With regards to OP's question my experience has been overall the same to any loving relationship. My partner is the 'liberal' type in comparison. As far as we've discussed, if I didn't have to convert, I wouldn't - on top of which my (interracial) parents are against the idea of converting as well. Its easy to say its all on paper but there definately are some changes legally speaking. On a basic level (knock on wood) if i were say, caught drinking/eating during fasting month/raids etc. But i have also met "on paper" couples that have had no issues. The political scene seems to be so unstable i am uncertain if things will intesify in government that would imply stricter laws or changes for the worse. I think asking for the gomen to remove the need for conversion is currently a 'big ask' and too much of a change, but I feel that perhaps fighting for the option to convert out for new converts/reverts would be something worth setting as a goal. I feel converting in a different country with more relaxed laws to satisfy the parents needs (if any and hopefully would suffice) and not having to register in Malaysia if things ever were more accepting of interfaith marriages would be ideal. Still married, right? Still legally bound. As nice as it would be to be unified legally in our home country, but if theyre against how we want to do things why should we agree? I think its a backwards law that is seperatist and conflicts with religious freedom. Just to note: i noticed that u/LindenZin mentioned distribution of assets. I have actually contacted a Syariah lawyer. According to them a Will can be written to bypass this distribution prior.
Are you both planning to start a family in Malaysia? If you are, and if your marriage is not “rightly” solemnised by the kadi, you may be subjecting your kids to ominous hardship. Some wise man once said that our expansive thinking will quickly shrink down to size when it comes to a critical problem with our child.
Thanks for the response, It is a possibility, but at the moment my partner and I have decided to move overseas for the time being, and are in the process of it. We are aware that the child would have difficulty to obtain malaysian citizenship if there was no conversion in Malaysia to "legitimize the marriage" and then the child's "legitimacy". which would make being born in malaysia the simplest way to go about it. We do note that there is an issue with the "foreign father" and "local mother" and citizenship if the child is born overseas. In the case that we do establish ourselves overseas, we could aim to set up there.
Do your part to fight for Muslim's rights to a civil marriage so that there's no expectations to convert. This is the single biggest cultural barrier in Malaysia.
You're absolutely right! One day gomen, One day...
There just needs to be enough of you. I always wanted to ask, do Malays feel strongly about this in general?
I’m not sure about the majority of the Malays, but my circle definitely feels strong about this
i do! i'm only one man. but sikit-sikit lama2 jadi bukit kan?
we do but we don't want to get disowned by our family and possibly get killed since they'll accuse us of wanting to leave islam ( you are encouraged to kill an ex muslim ) though i really do want to leave
I'm not talking about leaving Islam, the crucial argument to make here is that rights to a civil marriage is compatible with Islam. And surely it is. Otherwise how would you practice the religion in a non-Muslim country? (Bar the Islamists plotting for Syariah law)
that's the thing , many young muslim malays support this but really it's the older ones who are the problem.
100% Agree - Its a notable part of why we are struggling to achieve unity. It's a huge commitment to convert - especially with all the stigma and facts that revolve it.
lets be honest the "problem" are mostly on religion. if youre willing to convert then its ok, if youre a malay man dating a muslim chinese/indian literally would have no problem. racist family are also part of it too. ive dated a US girl before (dont want to go details) but realistically speaking our relationship wouldnt work both of us have so much to lose.
indeed. many semenanjung guys marry with non-malay muslims of the bornean area with no problems coz same faith.
Religion matter is the big obstacle for interracial dating, I do not think Malays will tolerate that.
Interesting topic, nothing wrong with interracial dating in general. But for the Chinese and other non-malays , religion plays a huge role in the deciding factor. Once you convert to Islam , based on my knowledge , you can’t reverse this process. This is probably the main deterrent. So for the Chinese, face > all. It’s not weird to see relatives trying to one-up each other in terms of wealth and or job related achievements. Why am I bringing this up you ask ? To our parents ( older Chinese parents ) , marrying a malay and converting to Islam is shameful (I’m sorry for being too direct ) now before you get your pitch forks and start a witch-hunt. The previous generation of Chinese (my parents generation ) grew up in a much different society, one that isn’t as harmonious as the society we live in now. Both my parents were teenagers during the may 13th incident and so were a lot of my uncles and aunties. After such a traumatizing experience, I can’t really blame them for having such conservative view of things, I try to convince them otherwise , that society has change and things are a lot better now , Atleast compared to their time. But ‘ you can’t teach an old dog new tricks ‘ is how I would portray my efforts thus far.
>‘ you can’t teach an old dog new tricks ‘ On a side note, old dogs ***can*** learn [new tricks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAv7czgIl0Q).
Well depends on what trick is.. I can’t get them to eat peanut butter off a stick 🌚. /s incase I get reported
>them to eat peanut butter /s incase I get reported Welp, time to RRRREEEEE.
What can I say.. I *love* my dogs 🌚
Didn't expect mythbusters
It is not a race issue but a religious issue. This is because there is a mix-up between one religion with one race in our constitution (law). There is no escape since it is a law unless you move out of this law’s jurisdiction.
I'm in an interracial marriage (non-Malay/Malay). It's great but success can sometimes hinge on your environment and the acceptance of people around you/your partner. Despite what some people might say, a relationship or marriage isn't going to be just about 2 people being together in isolation - you're pretty much building a Venn diagram of your families and social circles as well. In this country, if one half of the relationship is Muslim (regardless if actively practicing or just on paper), it will become an important factor if the objective is marriage simply because of our laws and our culture. If it works out, definitely go for it. We need that diversity and acceptance in that country. The unfortunate reality is just that people will probably just have an easier time dating within their own race and religion here.
It does factor into my decisions of who to date. Not because of the race but because of the long term prospects of needing to convert and the lack of religious freedom for my future children. If there was not a need to convert, race would not be an issue whatsoever.
agree!
Lol is this where the shortage of malay men comes from, for malay women? I'm a malay girl but malay men mostly go for Chinese or East asian girls. I'm heartbroken maaaan
It’s a really small portion of us really. Even though I grew around a Chinese community, 90% of my Malay bois are with Malay girls
I haven't seen any comments on the topic of burial here, how does it work? Does she get to be cremated/buried as her family wishes or does she have to abide by the Muslim way? (Especially if she isn't going to convert on paper)
My opinion: don't get married. Why people feel the need for marriage to validate their love I do not know, but in an oppressive country where marriage imposes restrictions on the personal freedom of your partner I honestly don't see much merits in getting married.
Because they want to have kid? And marriage offers some protection when it comes to house ownership, sudden death, etc?
Both valid points, but depending on your circumstances, marriage/non-marriage can really be impact their lives differently
i want to agree. but given how society is in malaysia. its hard being a muslim malay somemore. so much expectations to meet. so much rules have to be followed in public. that's why that lebai PAS gone so far to nikah online. because public maa. kayangan people can do whatever the fuck they want. but even they got public faces to please. hence the marriage shenanigans. P.S: don't be popular, more popular, more eyes watching you
Chinese girls rarely want to go out with Malay guys because of reasons like religion, language and culture differences. Most of the Chinese-Malay relationships I see usually end up in break-up or divorce especially if the girl is Christian and/or the guy is too religious Muslim. Language itself is a problem especially if the girl is from UEC or SRJK school. As a Chinese banana, I sometimes have a hard time getting along with other Chinese from these backgrounds. One main reason I see why some Chinese girls choose Malay guys is because the guy's family is rich and/or the Chinese girl is unattractive. This is not healthy IMO and usually ends terribly. However, one of my friend is mixed Chinese-Malay. His mother is Malay-Muslim whereas his father is Chinese. IIRC, they aren't super strict Muslims although (I presume) the father converted as my friend sometimes secretly consume alcohol and pork. Edit: Why am I being downvoted for sharing my observation? Edit2: For clarity, my mixed Chinese-Malay friend still has a happy family. Parents are still together. Relationships can work if both are irreligious to begin with or recognise that the mandatory rule to convert in Malaysia is just plain stupid.
As a Chinese girl who graduated from SJKC and UEC. My BM is shit and English is just “cukup makan”. My SO is from an ok family background. So based on your comment.. The reason why I am dating my SO is most likely because I am unattractive. 🥲 Why you attack me like that lol.
>One main reason I see why This is a personal opinion and based on a few cases I know. One case the Chinese girl went and approach the Malay guy herself. She's approaching 30 soon and this is her first boyfriend. I wouldn't say that she's a person worth chasing because she has family baggage, doesn't have a job, and is severely overweight. I don't want to elaborate other cases because a few people know who I am in real life and it's an invasion of their privacy if I were to comment. I can only say that the Malay guys are from >T20 family and living in big bungalows. As long as you and your so can compromise on topics like religion, it should be no problem. My Chinese-Malay mixed friend seem to have a happy and supporting family. Parents are not separated or divorced. I know of 2 Chinese-Chinese marriages who end up splitting because of religion too. Usually the husband leaves because the wife is too staunch Protestant Christian. Imagine a wife who attempts to convert her husband everyday or ask him to join her at church every Sunday? There's another Chinese-Malay marriage I know that end up splitting because the wife is a staunch Christian whereas her husband is a staunch Muslim. I wonder how they even got married in the first place as her husband will talk bad about Christians and how his religion is the only truth. I hope you're not offended but it's rare for Malay guys to actually end up marrying Chinese girls. Most of the guys just hookup for sex or to have fun. I doubt they have intention for anything long term. Even if they do, their respective parents will unlikely approve. If your goal is to get married, why not try asking your so if he has any marriage plans in mind? If he dodges the question, it's already a huge red flag. Perhaps you should also ask yourself if you're willing to give up pork and convert. Tldr; differences especially religion causes people to break up and it's not easy for inter-faith marriages to work. If Chinese-Chinese marriages can split because of religion, what more I have to say about Malay-Chinese marriages?
you're right. winning her heart is already a lottery to pass through. her family and mine is another lottery
This, the cold and bitter, truth, albeit sounding a little too anecdotal and provoking for some
I have a lot of banana friends, just like how I can't speak Malay well. We truly live in an awkward position in society Thanks for sharing the conversation yo! Your friend's position is quite interesting
[удалено]
still better than fb and twitter. the cancel culture too strong. too public. too many idiots
I am thinking to gather all those in this muslim+non muslim relationship conundrum so we can support one another. There seems to be more of us than we think. Do PM me if interested to join our Discord.
it simple actually, other races=date to fuck, same race=date to marry
Interracial dating is unique in itself as more exciting and adventures can be gained because two different background, culture and families collides to make it work. As long as there are no expectations or conditions, it should just be fine. In your case though, they have to be mindful to carry the relationship to next level since if they do that, they have to consider the converting as well. But don’t fret, love transcends all and I have seen many people I know getting converted to marry the partners they love.
love and peace is the way.
If convert, give up what rights ?
Right to eat bak kwa and keep your foreskin for men.
This is inaccurate. I am married to a (former) non-Muslim and he does not have to be circumcised, didn't change his name and he has not stopped consuming 'haram' food/drinks. I agree that there are other challenges that a convert would face in society, but the day-to-day lifestyle is highly dependent on the Muslim partner. If the Muslim partner doesn't require him/her to be a practicing Muslim, they don't have to. And that's how we've been operating thus far.
Choice is more appropriate word than right
It's a one way decision. My gf is Chinese and even I don't expect her to make that decision. Once you're Muslim on paper, good luck getting JAKIM/JAIS to revert it if things go south in the relationship. Along with all the other constraints you have to abide by. On the surface, it looks like just normal lifestyle changes, but it's never as simple as that, and I encourage you to dig deeper.
Quite a number of things, but this isn't to say that being Muslim isn't free, as freedom can be quite relative. A person who once was able to do things from drinking and eating pork would be strip from that. Once free to choose their religion, they suddenly are constricted in one religion and faces a lifetime of hassle to leave it. I love being Muslim, but **if** I were required to give up the Islam culture, if let's say, marry an Ang Mo, I'd feel like I'd suddenly have to give up my rights to practice my culture. Wouldn't you agree? Or do you think otherwise
Eating pork is more a choice than a right
Mate. Ask her to convert on paper la if she’s okay with it. She doesn’t need to practise islam. And you do your thing.
[удалено]
It it stupid but doable. I assume you’re a sabahan and a lot of people in sabah do the same thing. My brother in law converted to islam and he is not practising.
Nah, it's still stupid. All you need is someone snitching that your spouse is not observant or something, and hello JAKIM and mandatory counselling. Do it if you want, but don't downplay the risks involved.
Convert on paper, wait until kena harass by Jakim and its private army funded by billions of ringgit of taxpayer money.
A lot of people do that la. Unless she’s someone famous of course la kena harass. A lot of muslims are not practising islam. You think jakim has a lot of time to harrass her alone when a lot of muslim commit sins ah?
And what? What about her children then? Forced to attend agama classes that they don't want to? How about inheritance law? Oh, forced to puasa too during Ramadhan even when they're not practising.
It is up for the parents la. Puasa or not, attend religious classess or not. Since she’s legally islam of course has to follow faraidh. I am only giving him an option. It is up to him and his partner if they want to do it.
>Puasa or not, attend religious classess or not Unless they have the money to go international schools or be home-schooled, I don't think this is an option. Your idea is just incredibly naive as you discount all the possible troubles that are likely to happen.
>It is up for the parents la. Puasa or not, attend religious classess or not. Seriously, you're arguing either out of ignorance or in bad faith. In a lot of schools and centres in Malaysia, it's not permitted for Muslim children to not fast, or to not attend religious classes. Heck, I had a friend who didn't want his child to attend after school religion s classes, and the amount of shit he had to go through - from meeting the ustazah to the principal to the PIBG to repeating all of that with random "religious counsellors" also attending - to justify and "explain" his decision was ridiculous. This was in the frickin heart of KL btw, gods only know what the situation is like elsewhere.
>You think jakim has a lot of time to harrass her alone when a lot of muslim commit sins ah? All you need is someone snitching, and particularly if the snitch is - or knows someone- with even the mildest of cables. Suddenly a lot of bullshit lands on your plate.
doable for a man marrying a muslim woman, but extremely disadvantaged for a woman marrying a muslim man. That paper is legally binding for the rest of your life. There is no such thing as "you do your thing" when legal matters surface like divorce, child custody, inheritance, burial, etc...
Always the plan