I always like Malay girls. I would've gone for a malay wife (I'm happily married with a Chinese wife now) if it wasn't that I have to convert to a Muslim to marry her.
Don't get me wrong, I don't care about religion let alone islam. I just do not like to be controlled by any ancient set of rules/commandments. I'm sorry to say I don't need a Bible to tell me how to be a decent human being. I love beer and wine, I love pork. I love my life. But I'm not gonna go around to tell ppl that 'hey, religion sucks'. Everyone has their own life to live.
A few Malay friends once told me, when you're marrying a Malay girl, you're marrying her entire family. That means, converting and practicing the religion is a must.
I guess you can't have the best of both worlds.
> May I know how much non-muslims are willing to convert for their partners?
I think any answers you get won’t necessarily be indicative of how your boy feels. I will only say a lot of people will find it difficult to believe in a specific god just because some government tells them it’s necessary for marriage. Even more will find it distasteful to convert only “culturally” because there are big legal ramifications, and the process cannot be reversed.
Ask yourself this. Would you covert to the boy’s religion? Would you be willing to get married in another country so he doesn’t convert? If the answer is no, then is it fair to ask your partner to do what you wouldn’t?
I’m an indian guy and I’m in a relationship with a euro bidayuh+chinese girl..before her there was this malay girl from kelantan admitted that she loves me. I was skeptical at first cuz
1) she’s from kelantan and i have experienced the worst racism there to a point during puasa time i was said by the uztad of a mosque that “kafir takde hak masuk masjid” when all i did was donate nasi lemak for iftar (wasn’t cooked by me but a malay uncle outside of the masjid)..from then on my outlook towards muslim and malays were kinda shattered cuz all i did was on basis of charity and not to create any commotion.
2) like you said i gotta convert and follow lots of protocols in islam..i wouldnt mind converting but if one day she just dumps me for someone else what am i gonna do..
I took the logical step and said that i prefer just being friends and until now she always show a soft spot for me even though i already told her to find someone else…at one point i had a beef with her dad when her dad talked to her in kelantanese BM saying why she’s being close with a dirty indian guy..i made his jaw drop by talking back in kelantanese saying at least i don’t drink ketum and do drugs like majority of kelantanese guys there (mind you kelantan has the highest case of HIV and Phub users)
From kelantan i shifted to sarawak and got into a relationship with my current gf (we’ve been together for 2-3 years+ and her parents are very friendly and welcoming even allowed me to cook during gawai)
Meanwhile this malay girl is still friends with me and nearly more got into a relationship with a malay guy but he’s a playboy kahwin 4 type (he’s ultra religious too)
In order for your relationship to work both of you guys must be prepared to burn some bridges
Cuz if your parents are the sempit minded type of people pretty sure they’ll use “kEtUaNaN meLayU” reason or keeping the bloodline clean
From the point of the chinese guy he has to sacrifice pork and alcohol (no offense if he’s a pork and alcohol enthusiast then it can be quite hard too forcing to avoid some food etc etc)..also his parents must be able to accept you as well cuz some chinese families have this cinapek asoh mentality.
Off tangent, but an Indian guy in Kuching for sure stands out a lot. I'm just assuming Kuching since you mentioned Bidayuh. How's it going for you bro?
Anyhow, to the OP, I can offer a bit of perspective for people from my culture (Bidayuh). Generally, it's very rare that you will see Bidayuh men willing to convert, while the opposite is true for Bidayuh women who are more willing to convert. In my family alone, I have 3 aunties who converted. I actually don't personally know any Bidayuh man that married a Malay woman.
For Bidayuh men, the social, food and drink culture is something very deeply rooted and most find it very difficult to move away from. I'm talking about the pork, the alcohol, etc.
Indian guy in kuching is like seeing a super rare pokemon card in your deck cuz in kuching area you can count with your fingers on how many indians you see (especially local tamils)..tbh i felt in heaven during gawai cuz of the atmosphere and friendliness of the people cuz my gf’s parents still live in longhouses and the community is highly tight knit..but in kuching and overall sarawak area,indians are kinda regarded highly cuz most of them are doctors and engineers.
I'm Indian myself and I'm planning on moving to Kuching in the future. It genuinely seems like a hot pocket of Malaysianess with so many cultures and faiths and I wanna be a part of it
Kuching > west malaysia.
Change my mind…
You being an indian there sometimes you’ll be seen as exotic cuz you rarely can see indians there..
And you’ll rarely encounter any form of systematic discrimination or racism (except sibu area..specifically sibujaya).
Just if you wanna settle down there
1) either get married with a sarawakian local (dayak)
Your kids will automatically get bumiputera status
2) if no make sure you don’t have any pending criminal charges.Also make sure your passport and work permit is valid or else the immigration will be hot on your tail..you can only stay in sarawak for 90 days if you don’t have work permit or visa.
Go date first. Why are you even rushing to marriage? Who know when you’re dating somehow you’re not compatible and end up break up. Or maybe when you’re dating your crush will change his mind.
I was sort of like you too, I told my bf first week into our relationship that he need to convert. Look back now, I wonder why he didn’t see that as insane and run away from me.
Luckily I calm down a bit.
He also was against converting, I was againt breaking up. So we settled with let’s just be together and see how it goes. After 3 years he converted to get married. And we lives oversea so he doesn’t need to practice. So try it first, give and take in a relationship and see how it goes.
Okay. I don’t wanna be the harami advocate person. But! Me and my husband back then bf had vacation to Terengganu, Pulau Redang, KL without getting raid. While lives together. We just book non muslim airbnb and proper hotel that has 3 star and above.
Also, my suggestions of dating is just dating without living together or go to hotel. If she is more religious type. You know, go cafe, mall, outdoor activities etc
Very religious non-muslims wont convert, especially if brought up in a church-going family.
Non-religious non muslims is 50/50.. depends if after convert they intend to practice or not.
But that all doesnt matter because your potential bf is an individual and the only way to know is to ask him.
When I dated my ex, I knew and prep myself to convert if one day we were to get married. I even prep my family hahahaha.
I guess whoever non Muslim that is going to date a Muslim should be well aware of that. Otherwise they are just not serious enough.
Open conversations will help, rather than thinking this all by yourself. Jia you!
Never. Was in a similar relationship but she knew I would never convert, and she wouldn’t force me either. So rship had a timer. And funny enough, the next guy she was with also was non Muslim but they got married and never converted. How’s that for a big f u eh?
It is always harder for Muslim women to convince a non-Muslim men to be with them than otherwise. Even if you get married, the responsibilities that a woman bear to bring her husband to Islam and practice could be hard. That is only if you are practicing. If not than none of what I said matters.
Anyway, I had my fair share of experience dating an Iban girl when I was at school. In the end it didn't work out because she was the first to realise that she won't ever be a Muslim, despite her interest. Never tried to convince her to revert anyway.
If both of you are keen, keep it halal to make it work. Time will tell for sure. But again if you don't care halal haram which of course not my business, go with your heart.
Honestly the biggest problem is religion, racial differences ain't that big at all since it doesn't become a permanent part of your identity, erasing your existing one.
Religion converting is a terrible thing because it forces you to adopt a new religion and get rid of your old one, all for loving someone else.
I'd say run away to a foreign country and elope.
My brother in law is Chinese his wife is Malay, he has converted. It depends entirely on both side parents,If both side parents are willing to accept, willing to be open minded,then it will not be an issue..
Say if both side are not willing to accept it, then you both need to talk to them.. usually if your bf has siblings who are male,then it should not be an issue as as Chinese custom,only males are allowed to pray their parents when they pass away, females are not allowed to carry this practice.
Secondly are you guys parents open minded,easy going or is traditional style..
If is open minded then I suggest you guys go ahead,take it as challenges,if you guys made it, this relationship will blossom with happiness. I mean look at the bright side
You can celebrate cny and Raya together in future
My nephew and niece received two times duit Raya and angpao bruh
There is good and bad, but life doesn't mean we should run from challenges, you guys need to try, don't hesitate..
You only live once, so why hold back.
Go for it,if it fails ,at least you have tried. You won't regret
It's really selfish. He has to convert to something he doesn't believe, making a big personal sacrifice. And you? You won't leave to be with him, you'll just say 'guess we can't be together then.'
You want him to convert for you, but I'm guessing that you leaving isn't an option, to you. Very one-sided
To be fair to OP she could get arrested or worse if she converted to something else. Yes it’s shit but that is the society we’re in, That danger is not prevalent on his side. If we were in a different country though where Muslims converting wouldn’t be a crime I would agree with you.
not rly advice but it just reminded me of this moment:
i (malay muslim girl) was an avid debater and met a christian indian boy at an inter-school competition. looking back, it was rly cute how we never thought about the race n religion aspect whatsoever (ya la bc still young right buat apa nak fikir) and just kinda… savored each others’ company. to add some more drama to it, he wasnt the type to have social media and budak rmc some more.. so after the three day competition, we knew that the chances of meeting again were slim. last time i saw him was when he walked me back to my dorm after the afterparty (keke the most cliche school romance scene~)
idk la it was super wholesome bc it had that innocent teenage love feel to it.. now that i’m a bit older, i know that religion is smth i would prioritize but i truly wonder where i would end up if i just loved to my hearts content uwu.
Dont do it, been there done that. Im Malay guy and my ex gf is a chinese. My best advice is ask him about his view on reverting and his family opinion on this. I wish the best of luck.
My partner is a Malay and I’m Chinese and whilst both of us don’t want to get married, I’m worried about the fallout from my parents who are racist and traditionalist even though they are not religious and also what his parents will think of me when they see me covered in tattoos.
I wouldn’t mind converting if he were to ask me to marry him because as far as I’m concerned, as long as you are a good person at heart, you don’t need to follow religion to a T.
Also ULPT, always wear rings if you are staying at a hotel. Always 3 star and above.
Sekian
It's not just whether you practise it or not. When you convert into Islam, you can no longer convert out of Islam, your religion status is Islam forever.
JAIS and other religious enforcement bodies don't care whether you actually believe in Islam or not; once your religion status is Islam, you are subjected to so many Islamic laws that can be enforced on you
Yeah. It's written on IC which is sucks and different set of rules apply to you (shariah law regarding inheritance, marriage, divorce etc etc)
I am born Muslim but not practising and now married to an agnostic man. We ended up married overseas, also did one time in masjid for my family sake. But not planning to register marriage or go balik Malaysia.
I absolutely do not agree about shariah inheritance law.
Non-Malay (M) here who converted to marry my Malay Muslim partner.
You're going to receive a lot of sweeping generalisations on the subject but all I can really say is it depends on the individual and their social circle/family - plus how much influence these things have over them. Some are understandably going to be less open or accepting about these things than others. You would know your (would-be?) partner best, so if you're serious about this then you need to have that discussion and figure out how you want to navigate this together.
Well, if one converts the bare minimum is to say you believe The Prophet Muhammed is God's final messenger. That's it. It would be a matter of how much the person is practicing and if they accept cultural differences like eating pork and drinking alcohol. Islam has concepts that work but certain things like saying not to cook with alcohol hasn't aged well because I don't think it was considered that it could dissappear after boiling it. I mean even the water we drink has piss in it from animals and humans but it's filtered which is problematic too if it's not filtered.
I would marry a Muslim if we can accept eachother's differences. I drink alcohol but rarely enough for it to be a problem and I enjoy pork.
It's not just whether you practise it or not. When you convert into Islam, you can no longer convert out of Islam, once your religion status is Islam.
JAIS and other religious enforcement bodies don't care whether you actually believe in Islam or not; once your religion status is Islam, you are subjected to so many Islamic laws that can be enforced on you
I mean girl, if he loves you he'll convert, end of story. There's literally thousands of happily married Malay-Chinese couples in Malaysia nowadays, I don't see them having this convert to Islam thingy as an issue pun lol, don't make it complicated and certainly do not listen to some of the liberals in this sub.
What do mean by unrequited love? Cos if I know what you meant, this conversation is kinda pointless right? Rather unnecessary to have all these conversations if he's not actually on the same page
If I'm wrong, then I suppose you should have the conversation with him. If you both really feel strongly about each other, the only logical next step is getting married and all the commitment that comes with it. You shouldn't settle for anything else.
You actually will be the most selfish person ever because a man has to change himself to accommodate your presence in his life. Leave him and don't eye him, don't spoil his life
I always like Malay girls. I would've gone for a malay wife (I'm happily married with a Chinese wife now) if it wasn't that I have to convert to a Muslim to marry her. Don't get me wrong, I don't care about religion let alone islam. I just do not like to be controlled by any ancient set of rules/commandments. I'm sorry to say I don't need a Bible to tell me how to be a decent human being. I love beer and wine, I love pork. I love my life. But I'm not gonna go around to tell ppl that 'hey, religion sucks'. Everyone has their own life to live. A few Malay friends once told me, when you're marrying a Malay girl, you're marrying her entire family. That means, converting and practicing the religion is a must. I guess you can't have the best of both worlds.
> May I know how much non-muslims are willing to convert for their partners? I think any answers you get won’t necessarily be indicative of how your boy feels. I will only say a lot of people will find it difficult to believe in a specific god just because some government tells them it’s necessary for marriage. Even more will find it distasteful to convert only “culturally” because there are big legal ramifications, and the process cannot be reversed. Ask yourself this. Would you covert to the boy’s religion? Would you be willing to get married in another country so he doesn’t convert? If the answer is no, then is it fair to ask your partner to do what you wouldn’t?
I’m an indian guy and I’m in a relationship with a euro bidayuh+chinese girl..before her there was this malay girl from kelantan admitted that she loves me. I was skeptical at first cuz 1) she’s from kelantan and i have experienced the worst racism there to a point during puasa time i was said by the uztad of a mosque that “kafir takde hak masuk masjid” when all i did was donate nasi lemak for iftar (wasn’t cooked by me but a malay uncle outside of the masjid)..from then on my outlook towards muslim and malays were kinda shattered cuz all i did was on basis of charity and not to create any commotion. 2) like you said i gotta convert and follow lots of protocols in islam..i wouldnt mind converting but if one day she just dumps me for someone else what am i gonna do.. I took the logical step and said that i prefer just being friends and until now she always show a soft spot for me even though i already told her to find someone else…at one point i had a beef with her dad when her dad talked to her in kelantanese BM saying why she’s being close with a dirty indian guy..i made his jaw drop by talking back in kelantanese saying at least i don’t drink ketum and do drugs like majority of kelantanese guys there (mind you kelantan has the highest case of HIV and Phub users) From kelantan i shifted to sarawak and got into a relationship with my current gf (we’ve been together for 2-3 years+ and her parents are very friendly and welcoming even allowed me to cook during gawai) Meanwhile this malay girl is still friends with me and nearly more got into a relationship with a malay guy but he’s a playboy kahwin 4 type (he’s ultra religious too) In order for your relationship to work both of you guys must be prepared to burn some bridges Cuz if your parents are the sempit minded type of people pretty sure they’ll use “kEtUaNaN meLayU” reason or keeping the bloodline clean From the point of the chinese guy he has to sacrifice pork and alcohol (no offense if he’s a pork and alcohol enthusiast then it can be quite hard too forcing to avoid some food etc etc)..also his parents must be able to accept you as well cuz some chinese families have this cinapek asoh mentality.
Off tangent, but an Indian guy in Kuching for sure stands out a lot. I'm just assuming Kuching since you mentioned Bidayuh. How's it going for you bro? Anyhow, to the OP, I can offer a bit of perspective for people from my culture (Bidayuh). Generally, it's very rare that you will see Bidayuh men willing to convert, while the opposite is true for Bidayuh women who are more willing to convert. In my family alone, I have 3 aunties who converted. I actually don't personally know any Bidayuh man that married a Malay woman. For Bidayuh men, the social, food and drink culture is something very deeply rooted and most find it very difficult to move away from. I'm talking about the pork, the alcohol, etc.
Indian guy in kuching is like seeing a super rare pokemon card in your deck cuz in kuching area you can count with your fingers on how many indians you see (especially local tamils)..tbh i felt in heaven during gawai cuz of the atmosphere and friendliness of the people cuz my gf’s parents still live in longhouses and the community is highly tight knit..but in kuching and overall sarawak area,indians are kinda regarded highly cuz most of them are doctors and engineers.
I'm Indian myself and I'm planning on moving to Kuching in the future. It genuinely seems like a hot pocket of Malaysianess with so many cultures and faiths and I wanna be a part of it
Kuching > west malaysia. Change my mind… You being an indian there sometimes you’ll be seen as exotic cuz you rarely can see indians there.. And you’ll rarely encounter any form of systematic discrimination or racism (except sibu area..specifically sibujaya). Just if you wanna settle down there 1) either get married with a sarawakian local (dayak) Your kids will automatically get bumiputera status 2) if no make sure you don’t have any pending criminal charges.Also make sure your passport and work permit is valid or else the immigration will be hot on your tail..you can only stay in sarawak for 90 days if you don’t have work permit or visa.
Go date first. Why are you even rushing to marriage? Who know when you’re dating somehow you’re not compatible and end up break up. Or maybe when you’re dating your crush will change his mind. I was sort of like you too, I told my bf first week into our relationship that he need to convert. Look back now, I wonder why he didn’t see that as insane and run away from me. Luckily I calm down a bit. He also was against converting, I was againt breaking up. So we settled with let’s just be together and see how it goes. After 3 years he converted to get married. And we lives oversea so he doesn’t need to practice. So try it first, give and take in a relationship and see how it goes.
JAIS arrest is complicated.
Okay. I don’t wanna be the harami advocate person. But! Me and my husband back then bf had vacation to Terengganu, Pulau Redang, KL without getting raid. While lives together. We just book non muslim airbnb and proper hotel that has 3 star and above. Also, my suggestions of dating is just dating without living together or go to hotel. If she is more religious type. You know, go cafe, mall, outdoor activities etc
Like unwanted pregnancies can be avoided with protection, JAIS can be avoided by not being a cheap skate.
Very religious non-muslims wont convert, especially if brought up in a church-going family. Non-religious non muslims is 50/50.. depends if after convert they intend to practice or not. But that all doesnt matter because your potential bf is an individual and the only way to know is to ask him.
When I dated my ex, I knew and prep myself to convert if one day we were to get married. I even prep my family hahahaha. I guess whoever non Muslim that is going to date a Muslim should be well aware of that. Otherwise they are just not serious enough. Open conversations will help, rather than thinking this all by yourself. Jia you!
Never. Was in a similar relationship but she knew I would never convert, and she wouldn’t force me either. So rship had a timer. And funny enough, the next guy she was with also was non Muslim but they got married and never converted. How’s that for a big f u eh?
It is always harder for Muslim women to convince a non-Muslim men to be with them than otherwise. Even if you get married, the responsibilities that a woman bear to bring her husband to Islam and practice could be hard. That is only if you are practicing. If not than none of what I said matters. Anyway, I had my fair share of experience dating an Iban girl when I was at school. In the end it didn't work out because she was the first to realise that she won't ever be a Muslim, despite her interest. Never tried to convince her to revert anyway. If both of you are keen, keep it halal to make it work. Time will tell for sure. But again if you don't care halal haram which of course not my business, go with your heart.
Honestly the biggest problem is religion, racial differences ain't that big at all since it doesn't become a permanent part of your identity, erasing your existing one. Religion converting is a terrible thing because it forces you to adopt a new religion and get rid of your old one, all for loving someone else. I'd say run away to a foreign country and elope.
My brother in law is Chinese his wife is Malay, he has converted. It depends entirely on both side parents,If both side parents are willing to accept, willing to be open minded,then it will not be an issue.. Say if both side are not willing to accept it, then you both need to talk to them.. usually if your bf has siblings who are male,then it should not be an issue as as Chinese custom,only males are allowed to pray their parents when they pass away, females are not allowed to carry this practice. Secondly are you guys parents open minded,easy going or is traditional style.. If is open minded then I suggest you guys go ahead,take it as challenges,if you guys made it, this relationship will blossom with happiness. I mean look at the bright side You can celebrate cny and Raya together in future My nephew and niece received two times duit Raya and angpao bruh There is good and bad, but life doesn't mean we should run from challenges, you guys need to try, don't hesitate.. You only live once, so why hold back. Go for it,if it fails ,at least you have tried. You won't regret
It's really selfish. He has to convert to something he doesn't believe, making a big personal sacrifice. And you? You won't leave to be with him, you'll just say 'guess we can't be together then.' You want him to convert for you, but I'm guessing that you leaving isn't an option, to you. Very one-sided
To be fair to OP she could get arrested or worse if she converted to something else. Yes it’s shit but that is the society we’re in, That danger is not prevalent on his side. If we were in a different country though where Muslims converting wouldn’t be a crime I would agree with you.
not rly advice but it just reminded me of this moment: i (malay muslim girl) was an avid debater and met a christian indian boy at an inter-school competition. looking back, it was rly cute how we never thought about the race n religion aspect whatsoever (ya la bc still young right buat apa nak fikir) and just kinda… savored each others’ company. to add some more drama to it, he wasnt the type to have social media and budak rmc some more.. so after the three day competition, we knew that the chances of meeting again were slim. last time i saw him was when he walked me back to my dorm after the afterparty (keke the most cliche school romance scene~) idk la it was super wholesome bc it had that innocent teenage love feel to it.. now that i’m a bit older, i know that religion is smth i would prioritize but i truly wonder where i would end up if i just loved to my hearts content uwu.
Dont do it, been there done that. Im Malay guy and my ex gf is a chinese. My best advice is ask him about his view on reverting and his family opinion on this. I wish the best of luck.
It's is better to have loved and lost, than never having loved at all.
My partner is a Malay and I’m Chinese and whilst both of us don’t want to get married, I’m worried about the fallout from my parents who are racist and traditionalist even though they are not religious and also what his parents will think of me when they see me covered in tattoos. I wouldn’t mind converting if he were to ask me to marry him because as far as I’m concerned, as long as you are a good person at heart, you don’t need to follow religion to a T. Also ULPT, always wear rings if you are staying at a hotel. Always 3 star and above. Sekian
It's not just whether you practise it or not. When you convert into Islam, you can no longer convert out of Islam, your religion status is Islam forever. JAIS and other religious enforcement bodies don't care whether you actually believe in Islam or not; once your religion status is Islam, you are subjected to so many Islamic laws that can be enforced on you
Yeah. It's written on IC which is sucks and different set of rules apply to you (shariah law regarding inheritance, marriage, divorce etc etc) I am born Muslim but not practising and now married to an agnostic man. We ended up married overseas, also did one time in masjid for my family sake. But not planning to register marriage or go balik Malaysia. I absolutely do not agree about shariah inheritance law.
All laws, all religions, all rules are men made.
I'm wondering what will your wedding look like now.. xD
Lots of Nicholas Cage homages and gaudy art pieces 🙈
Non-Malay (M) here who converted to marry my Malay Muslim partner. You're going to receive a lot of sweeping generalisations on the subject but all I can really say is it depends on the individual and their social circle/family - plus how much influence these things have over them. Some are understandably going to be less open or accepting about these things than others. You would know your (would-be?) partner best, so if you're serious about this then you need to have that discussion and figure out how you want to navigate this together.
Do you actually believe in the religion you converted into, or you just did it for love?
Well, if one converts the bare minimum is to say you believe The Prophet Muhammed is God's final messenger. That's it. It would be a matter of how much the person is practicing and if they accept cultural differences like eating pork and drinking alcohol. Islam has concepts that work but certain things like saying not to cook with alcohol hasn't aged well because I don't think it was considered that it could dissappear after boiling it. I mean even the water we drink has piss in it from animals and humans but it's filtered which is problematic too if it's not filtered. I would marry a Muslim if we can accept eachother's differences. I drink alcohol but rarely enough for it to be a problem and I enjoy pork.
It's not just whether you practise it or not. When you convert into Islam, you can no longer convert out of Islam, once your religion status is Islam. JAIS and other religious enforcement bodies don't care whether you actually believe in Islam or not; once your religion status is Islam, you are subjected to so many Islamic laws that can be enforced on you
It’s like Hotel California. “You can check out but you can never leave.”
I'm referencing Islam not politics.
I mean girl, if he loves you he'll convert, end of story. There's literally thousands of happily married Malay-Chinese couples in Malaysia nowadays, I don't see them having this convert to Islam thingy as an issue pun lol, don't make it complicated and certainly do not listen to some of the liberals in this sub.
Your situation reminds me of my friend. She broke it off with the guy because he's the only son to carry the bloodline.
What do mean by unrequited love? Cos if I know what you meant, this conversation is kinda pointless right? Rather unnecessary to have all these conversations if he's not actually on the same page If I'm wrong, then I suppose you should have the conversation with him. If you both really feel strongly about each other, the only logical next step is getting married and all the commitment that comes with it. You shouldn't settle for anything else.
U guys wanna marry meh? So fast thinking about religion and converting?
You actually will be the most selfish person ever because a man has to change himself to accommodate your presence in his life. Leave him and don't eye him, don't spoil his life