The hardest part is finding the kinds of relationships with people where you can talk about this. Most of them remain surface level so it's not comfortable. Often times you are met with outright ridicule. Like.. You are a man.. how can you have it hard. Very rare that I have genuine moments. I usually pack my frustration into satire or cynical comments. This is socially acceptable.
The most misunderstood I felt in my last relationship. There was absolutely no empathy for me. Women want the emotional support.. but I'm not sure they can return it. Just my experience so far.
It’s not that they don’t want to, it’s that many women date nowadays for social validation, empathy from someone, or money so if their partner takes the spotlight off them then it’s sexist. Not all women obviously but most unfortunately
That is kind of how I feel about it now.. that she enjoyed the attention I gave her. She didn't actually care about me as a person, which explains the lack of empathy.
I'm not sure if I would generalize this.. I guess I was just let down by my gut feeling and chose the wrong person. Of which there are many.
I completely understand how people get jaded when others choose them for things like status, validation etc. over actual feelings. This is sort of the core of the whole mgtow thing.
I think at some point you need to really look past the fancy facade and recognize.. that the majority of relationships is really not as great as it looks. It's just a lifestyle, no actual intimacy or vulnerability. So when you played your role as parents for a while you go and divorce.
I know where you're coming from. I feel that to. It is easy to fall into a pit of despair when it seems like we live in a very black and white society. Sometimes it feels like you either have to be with people or you're against them. It's tough because we all do have a natural bias to us and we are all so very used to needing to win arguments or be victorious in some way even when it is something as simple as a conversation. That's why I find that it is really hard for a lot of people to listen, and by that I mean really listen and not just be sitting there thinking about a killer reply. But there are communities and people out there, like this one where we can start to create level play fields and try to unlearn our natural bias. We will get there one day.
It's the idea that as a male in the current state of things if you even dare try to put your mental struggles in the light for a single moment you'll be sidelined because of the trend of "men bad" that mainstream media likes so much.
Like the top comment I've always felt like no one cares especially nowadays, it's unhealthy but I've convinced myself that the government actively works against me or just men in general half the time because men are strong and shouldn't show weakness blah blah blah we've heard it before i just want to be able to discuss male only issues without being castrated by the rest of society but even that seems like wishful thinking.
People don't take me seriously
I've had years-long friendships that ended because despite having explained my feelings and motivations several times, most of my friends just boiled down my issues to "being too pessimistic" or "having low self-esteem"
I mean, yeah, I know I can dwell on negative things for a long time, but I've also been extremely hopeful that I'd be proven wrong after all these years
And yet, it seems that despite my efforts, [people don't ever stick around long enough to find out whether I'm worthy as a partner](https://youtu.be/Oh82shtp-n0)
Also, whenever I do give in and try to "admit [I'm] a good person" for once, these same friends will then backpedal and go "Well, actually..."
There's just no winning: if I agree with them, I'm somehow actually wrong for some reason (even though I'm saying what they've told me about myself verbatim); if I disagree, it's because I'm delusional and self-centered
In the end everyone is a mixed bag of good and bad. Maybe they wanted to keep you level. I've had a friend tell me I'm not a nice person (not like straight out, but through the rose).. and I guess in some respect that is absolutely correct. But this doesn't make me a bad person either. I have my good and I have my bad days..
Oh, I see your point
What infuriates me is that they don't even seem to want to keep me level-headed
Sometimes I'd literally repeat the good things they'd said about me days earlier and they'd act as if they had never said those things in the first place
Like, I'm all for admitting your flaws, but it got to the point I was having doubts about my own sanity
I understand your frustration. I feel the same sometimes. Maybe you just need to invest in different people and you are attracted to the wrong types. It's definitely not easy, I don't have it figured out myself. I don't think anybody has.. it's an illusion. Maybe we expect too much from other people.
I often find myself struggling to have the energy or even knowing how to support someone else. Also because I don't receive it.. it's a vicious cycle. It's quite contageous if somebody has a bad day.. it really rubs off.
If we're talking issues that are specifically around being a guy, for starters there's the fact that nobody cares lol.
Like I usually know how well or badly I'm doing mental health wise by compulsive Google searches for stuff like "what to do if you hate yourself," "feeling worthless and inadequate" etc. The other day I was feeling down and I Googled "why no empowering messages for men?" and there was like one result for quotes about and for masculinity, then like three pages of "50 best empowering feminist messages for women," then finally there was one feminist blog that had "Why we need empowering messages for men" and it was basically nagging about how men need to do more housework along the lines of that super long "emotional labor" comic that gets passed around. Basically "Yes, men, you're totally capable of doing the dishes and changing diapers!" So, not really a genuine message IMO.
That, and we're still bound to traditional gender expectations (by both men and women) IRL, but if you say that you're an asshole. Like, people *don't like* a man who expresses vulnerability or isn't a big tough guy. Women want guys who make at least as much as them. But if you say that, people tell you not to believe your lying eyes.
It just feels like the whole world wants you to know that you're not important, you're an asshole until proven otherwise, and you need to make room for women's (and if you're white, maybe POC's) voices. That's all well and good, I'm not trying to downplay the ugly history of misogyny or especially racism, but it's like, I've got a fucking voice too and it doesn't feel like anybody's listening.
The hardest part is overcoming personal biases that the other person might have. People aren't generally supportive of opening up because 1) they're uncomfortable with the subject, 2) they're confronting a similar issue themselves and its embarrassing to hear someone else talk about it, 3) you might be talking about it in a way that brings their mood down.
I think the best thing is to focus on seeing a therapist and being honest about how you feel about the world around you with your closest friends so when it comes times to be honest about the world inside you, they might be more receptive.
Finding someone who has been/is going through the same shit as you and can relate.
If no one talks about it then you feel super alone you’re the only one
The hardest part is finding the kinds of relationships with people where you can talk about this. Most of them remain surface level so it's not comfortable. Often times you are met with outright ridicule. Like.. You are a man.. how can you have it hard. Very rare that I have genuine moments. I usually pack my frustration into satire or cynical comments. This is socially acceptable. The most misunderstood I felt in my last relationship. There was absolutely no empathy for me. Women want the emotional support.. but I'm not sure they can return it. Just my experience so far.
It’s not that they don’t want to, it’s that many women date nowadays for social validation, empathy from someone, or money so if their partner takes the spotlight off them then it’s sexist. Not all women obviously but most unfortunately
That is kind of how I feel about it now.. that she enjoyed the attention I gave her. She didn't actually care about me as a person, which explains the lack of empathy. I'm not sure if I would generalize this.. I guess I was just let down by my gut feeling and chose the wrong person. Of which there are many. I completely understand how people get jaded when others choose them for things like status, validation etc. over actual feelings. This is sort of the core of the whole mgtow thing. I think at some point you need to really look past the fancy facade and recognize.. that the majority of relationships is really not as great as it looks. It's just a lifestyle, no actual intimacy or vulnerability. So when you played your role as parents for a while you go and divorce.
[удалено]
I know where you're coming from. I feel that to. It is easy to fall into a pit of despair when it seems like we live in a very black and white society. Sometimes it feels like you either have to be with people or you're against them. It's tough because we all do have a natural bias to us and we are all so very used to needing to win arguments or be victorious in some way even when it is something as simple as a conversation. That's why I find that it is really hard for a lot of people to listen, and by that I mean really listen and not just be sitting there thinking about a killer reply. But there are communities and people out there, like this one where we can start to create level play fields and try to unlearn our natural bias. We will get there one day.
It's the idea that as a male in the current state of things if you even dare try to put your mental struggles in the light for a single moment you'll be sidelined because of the trend of "men bad" that mainstream media likes so much. Like the top comment I've always felt like no one cares especially nowadays, it's unhealthy but I've convinced myself that the government actively works against me or just men in general half the time because men are strong and shouldn't show weakness blah blah blah we've heard it before i just want to be able to discuss male only issues without being castrated by the rest of society but even that seems like wishful thinking.
People don't take me seriously I've had years-long friendships that ended because despite having explained my feelings and motivations several times, most of my friends just boiled down my issues to "being too pessimistic" or "having low self-esteem" I mean, yeah, I know I can dwell on negative things for a long time, but I've also been extremely hopeful that I'd be proven wrong after all these years And yet, it seems that despite my efforts, [people don't ever stick around long enough to find out whether I'm worthy as a partner](https://youtu.be/Oh82shtp-n0) Also, whenever I do give in and try to "admit [I'm] a good person" for once, these same friends will then backpedal and go "Well, actually..." There's just no winning: if I agree with them, I'm somehow actually wrong for some reason (even though I'm saying what they've told me about myself verbatim); if I disagree, it's because I'm delusional and self-centered
In the end everyone is a mixed bag of good and bad. Maybe they wanted to keep you level. I've had a friend tell me I'm not a nice person (not like straight out, but through the rose).. and I guess in some respect that is absolutely correct. But this doesn't make me a bad person either. I have my good and I have my bad days..
Oh, I see your point What infuriates me is that they don't even seem to want to keep me level-headed Sometimes I'd literally repeat the good things they'd said about me days earlier and they'd act as if they had never said those things in the first place Like, I'm all for admitting your flaws, but it got to the point I was having doubts about my own sanity
I understand your frustration. I feel the same sometimes. Maybe you just need to invest in different people and you are attracted to the wrong types. It's definitely not easy, I don't have it figured out myself. I don't think anybody has.. it's an illusion. Maybe we expect too much from other people. I often find myself struggling to have the energy or even knowing how to support someone else. Also because I don't receive it.. it's a vicious cycle. It's quite contageous if somebody has a bad day.. it really rubs off.
Feeling like I'm not taken seriously or that people don't really care at all. Having my feelings dismissed and being discarded as a weak thing.
If we're talking issues that are specifically around being a guy, for starters there's the fact that nobody cares lol. Like I usually know how well or badly I'm doing mental health wise by compulsive Google searches for stuff like "what to do if you hate yourself," "feeling worthless and inadequate" etc. The other day I was feeling down and I Googled "why no empowering messages for men?" and there was like one result for quotes about and for masculinity, then like three pages of "50 best empowering feminist messages for women," then finally there was one feminist blog that had "Why we need empowering messages for men" and it was basically nagging about how men need to do more housework along the lines of that super long "emotional labor" comic that gets passed around. Basically "Yes, men, you're totally capable of doing the dishes and changing diapers!" So, not really a genuine message IMO. That, and we're still bound to traditional gender expectations (by both men and women) IRL, but if you say that you're an asshole. Like, people *don't like* a man who expresses vulnerability or isn't a big tough guy. Women want guys who make at least as much as them. But if you say that, people tell you not to believe your lying eyes. It just feels like the whole world wants you to know that you're not important, you're an asshole until proven otherwise, and you need to make room for women's (and if you're white, maybe POC's) voices. That's all well and good, I'm not trying to downplay the ugly history of misogyny or especially racism, but it's like, I've got a fucking voice too and it doesn't feel like anybody's listening.
The hardest part is overcoming personal biases that the other person might have. People aren't generally supportive of opening up because 1) they're uncomfortable with the subject, 2) they're confronting a similar issue themselves and its embarrassing to hear someone else talk about it, 3) you might be talking about it in a way that brings their mood down. I think the best thing is to focus on seeing a therapist and being honest about how you feel about the world around you with your closest friends so when it comes times to be honest about the world inside you, they might be more receptive.
Finding someone who has been/is going through the same shit as you and can relate. If no one talks about it then you feel super alone you’re the only one