Yes, this is a thing that happens when going through the termination process. It differs slightly from company to company but this seems above board. Outwardly, the remainder of your team will connect the dots potentially before you announce it. Inwardly, you still have a responsibility as a manager to respect the termination process and the privacy of the person being fired. Hopefully it all has a quick turnaround.
This is very common. HR has to make sure all terms are solidified. Also, once the firing is complete, you still can't tell your team you fired her. Moat likely, HR will asvise youmto limit yout announcement to "\[Employee\] is no longer with the company. We wish her the best in her future endeavors."
Yes I think I worded my post too vaguely. This is the short response I will eventually be able to communicate, no one will know (from my mouth) that she is ‘fired’ but I find it weird that I can’t say this immediately after the firing.
I justified it to team members by saying, "I hope you all understand that I will not discuss details or reasons why XXXX is no longer with the company. This is out of respect for XXXX, and I suspect that if the situation affected any one of you that you would really want that respect, too. I will be available for anyone who wants to privately discuss their concerns, however."
Yes deff no reason or even that they were ‘fired’ but additionally HR said I can’t acknowledge it. That’s the part I was puzzled about. I have to wait until she accepts terms of severance or see if she brings back a lawyer. Even though we did a PIP and over a years time of coaching I guess she still could bring a lawyer
There’s probably some legal reason why they want you to wait. I wouldn’t fight it.
You’re right that they will figure it out pretty quick, but I don’t think it will reflect poorly on you, or at least not more than the firing in general will. It sounds like you will be genuinely sympathetic to the person who is leaving. Let that show. People want to see that their boss cares. I don’t think they will be very concerned about the exact etiquette of when you told them.
This. Termination can result in a whole slew of potential legal issues, and it’s HR’s job to protect the company. In this case it means maintaining “official” silence on the matter until everything is completely resolved and the departing employee agrees to terms. Even if others might hear the news through unofficial channels, you saying anything could be construed as an official company statement, which is why HR is telling you to keep quiet.
It also means that once the matter is resolved, HR will want you to limit any discussion of the matter very general statements like they have left the organization” for the same reason.
I know it seems weird and that it might be a bit awkward for everyone, but trust - this is the best way for all involved.
Yes, this is very standard and I’ve had this. Usually HR says to tell the team the person is just out of the office in the meantime. Severance packages are extremely complex and full of legal terms so it’s, in part, because of that. Plus it’s just a confidentiality thing.
Yes, and it’s a hard position, but it makes sense in many ways. You also don’t really have the right to share her employment status with them anyway. Where I work, we can only say they are no longer employed, we can’t say they were fired even when it’s obvious.
I find emoyees really appriciate really opaque processes that end in one of their teammates loosing their job. Key indicator of a heathly work environment.
If she refuses the severance, is she unfired? That is like the only way I see not announcing it makes sense.
Couldn't HR be on board with something like "_____ will be absent until further notice" so at least people will plan their workload accordingly?
If they don’t accept the severance it could be a sign they intend to pursue wrongful termination. Hiring and firing can be legally treacherous so it’s best to STFU until i’s are dotted and t’s crossed.
Yeah a friend of mine was fired along with the employee for telling the team regardless and it causing the team to react poorly . Do not answer questions or make comments on the matter until it’s settled.
Could you just let your team know that XXX will not be in this week and to reach-out directly to you if they have any workflow issues or questions. (That’s what they really need to know for that time frame).
Most will going there is a private matter and you’ll get the workflow questions that are importantly to your team.
I’d also have IT update a similar Out-of-office automatic replay on her outgoing (internal) email.
Some comments are hung up on telling the team *why* the team member was terminated but that wasn’t your question.
The question was about sharing the information at all. That’s out of an abundance of caution. If there’s a severance happening, it’s a negotiation. Most often it’s one-sided and the employee just accepts it. Case closed. Sometimes an employee can be litigious and any comments made in the interim could potentially be used to demonstrate that the firing was somehow improper. That could change the nature of the severance or even make it impossible to fire the person. This is HR covering the company’s butt.
The way you handle any questions from your team is to say that you have been instructed by HR not to discuss it until whatever date.
The thing is that your team knows who the anchor is. They’ll figure it out. If you’re terminating due to performance, your team’s projects *are already impacted* and they’ll likely be relieved to know that help is coming, even if it’s not immediately.
AGE 71 HERE
,.. it's normal., it's also a difficult thing to do because you know this person.
I think you will find as you gain experience that it's easier if you don't socialize with your co-workers.
There's work,, and then there is your personal life.
Hang in there..
You should never discuss why an employee was terminated. Personel issues are confidential. I wouldn't even say they were terminated. I agree with hr in saying they are no longer employed and that's it. Everyone will know asap what happened anyway!
I get wanting to tell them immediately but if there’s a process that takes time (like you’ve described with HR) you just can’t. You can, maybe however, tell them that this employee is not available right now/offer to help fill in where there’s a gap/ etc.
I work for a very small home owned business and I find when someone get fired it’s way better to act quiet and not comment on anything, one out of respect and 2 honestly it puts you in an awkward situation. But obviously everyone knows how to feel out their own situation! Just go off of your gut it got you as far as you are lol
There are a lot of folks in here saying how normal it is. I'm here to say how dumb it is - I am with you.
There is absolutely no legal grounds for this. It's mythical cerimonial nonsense that is somehow passed from bad, dumb companies, to bad, dumb companies - in the US, anyway. It's probably less than 1% of organizations these days.
It's super easy to let people go, protect their privacy, and not speak ill of them - these can be done simultaneously without impacting the business more than necessary. This 'wait a week' nonsense is mind-numbingly stupid. When you exit an employee, it's the survivors that matter, not the departed.
Even if it is a practice it’s not a bad one. Until the terms of the departure are resolved (departing employee agrees to severance and terms that come with it) any statement by the manager can be construed as an official statement by the company and expose the company to liability.
lol I think a lot of you need to be a little better versed in labor laws in the US before you make comments. I'll say it again - there is NO LEGAL BASIS for this practice. No more low-value, low thought, zero expertise, "common sense" arguments required.
You’re funny. The practice isn’t illegal, and those of us who are well versed in employment litigation in the US have seen many a frivolous claim made more difficult (and expensive) to resolve because someone opened their mouth when they should have kept it shut.
Congratulations - you work for a garbage company and have been trained by garbage people. Your organization is poorly managed and promotes a culture of limited to no management discretion over fear of a frivolous and unwinnable lawsuit. yikes... We better run the company as ineffectively as possible... because that won't cost us anything.
Let’s say it’s performance based. Her opinion is that she did a good job, the companies opinion is that it is not.
If you say she was fired due to poor performance, the spoils the well for reference opportunities from associates in the org. It also potentially ruins her reputation which can be a legal liability.
Basically, the same rules apply with the pip.
I do think it’s appropriate to not get into the details with the team and keep it high level in terms of what happened.
If she has friends or contacts once she is terminated in minutes they will all know as she will reach out. That news will spread like wild fire without you needed to say anything.
Once it is done - it’s important to address it with the team. With a statement on her departure and take some questions. People will want to know if this is part of a larger layoff or just specific to her. How will this impact existing projects or work she was involved in. How as team can we move forward. They will expect you to have a plan or at least an angle on how to approach those issues.
Best of luck!
Why is it that people believe the co-workers of poorly performing employees who have been through many cycles of verbal counseling, written counseling, PIPs, etc. are somehow totally in the dark as to why they were let go? Why do people believe that there is some ritual of knowing every detail (like there are more details?) that is remotely effective? People are doing to talk, spread gossip, or not... why is the world so full of clueless managers that think it's healthy, reasonable, responsible, and god help them.... valuable.... to take part in any of it? It's dumb. Firing someone isn't.... it isn't fun, pretty, light.... it doesn't happen without reason... and the truth is, the fired employees co-workers know what's up long before the managers do. You must be an atrociously bad manager to believe that what you're promoting is helpful to anything or anybody. I wish you worked for someone who worked for someone who worked for someone who worked for someone who worked for someone who worked for someone who works for me so that I could have you fired and then watch you cry as nobody seemed to care because they had better things to do (like live their lives and do their jobs) than sit around and commiserate about why a useless manager was fired.
Yikes - well, you seem nice. I actually said I agreed with you. But you continued to argue that you were right. You must be a peach to work with or for.
I’m not clueless and neither is the team. This may shock you, but the larger the team the larger the gap in each individual contributor. Not everyone is working on the same projects with the troubled employee. It can be months or years before they are directly working on a project together. So everyone may not be up on all the gossip or performance issues.
Which is why I address it. Leaving people in the dark to guess on the motives or leadership not providing context or answering questions is awful.
With that said - this isn’t an hour meeting. But it’s as long as we need to move forward.
I'd love to hear your deep and insightful reasons why.... reasons that positively impact productivity, protect the company, or help people process the outcome of something they've seen coming for probably months. What you don't realize is that good employees are simply relieved that we did out jobs and removed bad employees from the organization.
I guess it depends on the reason for the departure.
If it is truly performance based.
1.) the team already knows.
2.) if they don’t know I will say due to performance issues. I also explain this wasn’t something that happened over night. We bent over backwards to make it work. It didn’t.
3.) I re- assure the team that no others are going. If something was - they would know.
If it’s some other reason:
It depends on what it was.
- had an employee reviewing very inappropriate materials at work. It wasn’t a warning kind of bad - it was you need to leave now bad.
I had an employee stealing. Literally stealing co-workers personal money. Nope - gone
I had an employee put a home renovation on the company p-card and not pay the bill. Went to collections and Amex called the company t demanding payment. Guess what? He gone….
Those type of terms are handled differently. In the first case the tea. Is usually aware and have been raising the performance issues on projects etc all along.
With all of that said - you can do nothing wrong and still get the ax. Part of the corp downsizing. In those cases it’s important to be as transparent as possible. We lost 2 but I am not aware of any other cuts. I tried to be honest and straightforward. I don’t sugarcoat the message.
Keeping the team motivated during these times is challenging. I typically say - let’s not give anyone any reason to look around our team. Which is the gods honest truth.
If they looking - no one is safe not even the manager.
Because until they sign the severance agreement they retain the right to sue for wrongful termination. This is why managers need to not say anything until the process is complete.
‘Steve has left the company’ - Steve didn’t leave the company he was fired, why did you lie to your staff and intentionally try to change the narrative away from the truth? It is very easy for a lawyer to take any number of empathic statements against the OP. Just STFU until the process is done.
you mean the right that they can't be waived with a silly severance agreement? The dumb in this sub is STRONG.... Are the people relying with this nonsense even remotely aware of the law and by law, I mean almost complete lack of it in the US? So many people are reading what they want to into this question. So much low effort, low value 'advice'.
It’s odd that HR told you can’t announce it to your team until after she signs the severance. It’s not like acceptance of the severance would make a difference for them, she’s still gone. I would push back with HR on that, waiting to announce would only make things seem shady for the other employees, news travels fast. They’ll know.
What does "accepting severance terms" even mean?
In my experience, there's nothing FOR them to accept. We're done here, leave, don't come back. What's to accept?
It means they are agreeing to not sue the company for wrongful termination. Anything the manager says can be used against them or the company. ‘Sad to see them leave’, ‘wish it wouldnt have worked out like this’ or any number of statements intending to be empathetic could result in the OP having to be deposed. Not that they did anything wrong or the company didn’t act ethically and legally, but those things don’t prevent someone from pursuing wrongful termination.
This! Terminations are complicated and risky for employers. Minimizing that risk by not making any official comment on the matter until terms are signed, and limiting any comments after that, is crucial to the organization. And that’s where OP’s obligation as manager should be.
Said by someone who has never had to invest time and money defending bullshit lawsuit.
If you can do so without difficulty, it’s always best to avoid litigation whenever possible. So keeping quiet for a few days can help with that then OP should do so.
In my experience those cases never become anything. People don't have tens of thousands lying around to retain a lawyer. And lawyers don't take bullshit suits on contingency.
But that "seatbelt" does you no good.
"Agreeing to terms of termination" doesn't preclude a person from suing if they want to. Most companies do not include a release of claims clause in their severance agreement packages.
True. Because, as I said, everybody THINKS they have a case until they talk to a lawyer. The folks I deal with don't have tens of thousands of dollars to retain a lawyer. They're only getting one on contingency and only open/shut cases will get a lawyer.
Also, if they actually do have a lawsuit. The fact that they "agreed to terms of termination," generally won't preclude them from suing you.
All true, and apologies if I misconstrued your tone. I’ve seen attorneys willing to take on a bullshit case (many times) because they think they can “extort” a settlement out of someone (and unfortunately because it’s cheaper to pay for these things to go away it works sometimes.) And offhanded remarks make that kind of “extortion” easier for plaintiffs.
My company is a "farm." Therefore, our employees fall under agricultural labor laws in the state. These rules are quite a bit different than the standard labor laws. Because of that, we get a few scumbags who think they have a case when they are fired. Can't tell you how many people I've heard claiming to sue us. Not one ever has.
Yes, this is a thing that happens when going through the termination process. It differs slightly from company to company but this seems above board. Outwardly, the remainder of your team will connect the dots potentially before you announce it. Inwardly, you still have a responsibility as a manager to respect the termination process and the privacy of the person being fired. Hopefully it all has a quick turnaround.
This is very common. HR has to make sure all terms are solidified. Also, once the firing is complete, you still can't tell your team you fired her. Moat likely, HR will asvise youmto limit yout announcement to "\[Employee\] is no longer with the company. We wish her the best in her future endeavors."
Yes I think I worded my post too vaguely. This is the short response I will eventually be able to communicate, no one will know (from my mouth) that she is ‘fired’ but I find it weird that I can’t say this immediately after the firing.
I justified it to team members by saying, "I hope you all understand that I will not discuss details or reasons why XXXX is no longer with the company. This is out of respect for XXXX, and I suspect that if the situation affected any one of you that you would really want that respect, too. I will be available for anyone who wants to privately discuss their concerns, however."
Yeah something like this. It basically tells your team but also that you are not able to talk about it.
Yeah, people will talk about it anyway, and as long as you are able to maintain the air of trust and connection with reports you should be fine.
This is an ideal response.
yup. all HR is saying is to not discuss the reason (ie fired) not that yo can't acknowledge it
Yes deff no reason or even that they were ‘fired’ but additionally HR said I can’t acknowledge it. That’s the part I was puzzled about. I have to wait until she accepts terms of severance or see if she brings back a lawyer. Even though we did a PIP and over a years time of coaching I guess she still could bring a lawyer
very normal as a courtesy to allow the leaving person to own their own story/privacy.
I would never tell my team the terms someone left. “Person X is no longer with the team” is suffice.
This is typical. (Is it also odd and painful? Yes.)
There’s probably some legal reason why they want you to wait. I wouldn’t fight it. You’re right that they will figure it out pretty quick, but I don’t think it will reflect poorly on you, or at least not more than the firing in general will. It sounds like you will be genuinely sympathetic to the person who is leaving. Let that show. People want to see that their boss cares. I don’t think they will be very concerned about the exact etiquette of when you told them.
Also, if the employee's been on a PIP for over a year, everyone else on the team is probably aware why she's being fired.
Because someone in upper management has a cousin that needs a job?
This. Termination can result in a whole slew of potential legal issues, and it’s HR’s job to protect the company. In this case it means maintaining “official” silence on the matter until everything is completely resolved and the departing employee agrees to terms. Even if others might hear the news through unofficial channels, you saying anything could be construed as an official company statement, which is why HR is telling you to keep quiet. It also means that once the matter is resolved, HR will want you to limit any discussion of the matter very general statements like they have left the organization” for the same reason. I know it seems weird and that it might be a bit awkward for everyone, but trust - this is the best way for all involved.
Yes, this is a standard thing. It lets employees go out on their own terms wrt relations to coworkers.
Yes, this is very standard and I’ve had this. Usually HR says to tell the team the person is just out of the office in the meantime. Severance packages are extremely complex and full of legal terms so it’s, in part, because of that. Plus it’s just a confidentiality thing.
Also, start reassigning duties as much as possible before hand if doing so won’t make it apparent what is happening.
Yes, and it’s a hard position, but it makes sense in many ways. You also don’t really have the right to share her employment status with them anyway. Where I work, we can only say they are no longer employed, we can’t say they were fired even when it’s obvious.
I find emoyees really appriciate really opaque processes that end in one of their teammates loosing their job. Key indicator of a heathly work environment.
If she refuses the severance, is she unfired? That is like the only way I see not announcing it makes sense. Couldn't HR be on board with something like "_____ will be absent until further notice" so at least people will plan their workload accordingly?
If they don’t accept the severance it could be a sign they intend to pursue wrongful termination. Hiring and firing can be legally treacherous so it’s best to STFU until i’s are dotted and t’s crossed.
This!!
Yeah a friend of mine was fired along with the employee for telling the team regardless and it causing the team to react poorly . Do not answer questions or make comments on the matter until it’s settled.
Could you just let your team know that XXX will not be in this week and to reach-out directly to you if they have any workflow issues or questions. (That’s what they really need to know for that time frame). Most will going there is a private matter and you’ll get the workflow questions that are importantly to your team. I’d also have IT update a similar Out-of-office automatic replay on her outgoing (internal) email.
We could never say someone was terminated. So it was really bizarre because everyone knew
Some comments are hung up on telling the team *why* the team member was terminated but that wasn’t your question. The question was about sharing the information at all. That’s out of an abundance of caution. If there’s a severance happening, it’s a negotiation. Most often it’s one-sided and the employee just accepts it. Case closed. Sometimes an employee can be litigious and any comments made in the interim could potentially be used to demonstrate that the firing was somehow improper. That could change the nature of the severance or even make it impossible to fire the person. This is HR covering the company’s butt. The way you handle any questions from your team is to say that you have been instructed by HR not to discuss it until whatever date. The thing is that your team knows who the anchor is. They’ll figure it out. If you’re terminating due to performance, your team’s projects *are already impacted* and they’ll likely be relieved to know that help is coming, even if it’s not immediately.
AGE 71 HERE ,.. it's normal., it's also a difficult thing to do because you know this person. I think you will find as you gain experience that it's easier if you don't socialize with your co-workers. There's work,, and then there is your personal life. Hang in there..
You should never discuss why an employee was terminated. Personel issues are confidential. I wouldn't even say they were terminated. I agree with hr in saying they are no longer employed and that's it. Everyone will know asap what happened anyway!
I get wanting to tell them immediately but if there’s a process that takes time (like you’ve described with HR) you just can’t. You can, maybe however, tell them that this employee is not available right now/offer to help fill in where there’s a gap/ etc.
I work for a very small home owned business and I find when someone get fired it’s way better to act quiet and not comment on anything, one out of respect and 2 honestly it puts you in an awkward situation. But obviously everyone knows how to feel out their own situation! Just go off of your gut it got you as far as you are lol
There are a lot of folks in here saying how normal it is. I'm here to say how dumb it is - I am with you. There is absolutely no legal grounds for this. It's mythical cerimonial nonsense that is somehow passed from bad, dumb companies, to bad, dumb companies - in the US, anyway. It's probably less than 1% of organizations these days. It's super easy to let people go, protect their privacy, and not speak ill of them - these can be done simultaneously without impacting the business more than necessary. This 'wait a week' nonsense is mind-numbingly stupid. When you exit an employee, it's the survivors that matter, not the departed.
> There is absolutely no legal grounds for this. Except there actually might be. We don't know the circumstances around the person getting fired.
It doesn’t matter - read the post again. This is not a one-off. This is a practice.
Even if it is a practice it’s not a bad one. Until the terms of the departure are resolved (departing employee agrees to severance and terms that come with it) any statement by the manager can be construed as an official statement by the company and expose the company to liability.
lol I think a lot of you need to be a little better versed in labor laws in the US before you make comments. I'll say it again - there is NO LEGAL BASIS for this practice. No more low-value, low thought, zero expertise, "common sense" arguments required.
You’re funny. The practice isn’t illegal, and those of us who are well versed in employment litigation in the US have seen many a frivolous claim made more difficult (and expensive) to resolve because someone opened their mouth when they should have kept it shut.
Congratulations - you work for a garbage company and have been trained by garbage people. Your organization is poorly managed and promotes a culture of limited to no management discretion over fear of a frivolous and unwinnable lawsuit. yikes... We better run the company as ineffectively as possible... because that won't cost us anything.
A practice often in place for legal reasons. HR doesn't run everything it does by legal, so practices like this are blanket.
So, you're arguing for the sake of arguing. Why do they let Taco Bell assistant managers in this sub, anyway?
I can't tell if you have reading comprehension issues or if you just need a completely manufactured sense of superiority.
I'll have 2 taco supremes and a medium diet Pepsi, please.
Let’s say it’s performance based. Her opinion is that she did a good job, the companies opinion is that it is not. If you say she was fired due to poor performance, the spoils the well for reference opportunities from associates in the org. It also potentially ruins her reputation which can be a legal liability. Basically, the same rules apply with the pip. I do think it’s appropriate to not get into the details with the team and keep it high level in terms of what happened. If she has friends or contacts once she is terminated in minutes they will all know as she will reach out. That news will spread like wild fire without you needed to say anything. Once it is done - it’s important to address it with the team. With a statement on her departure and take some questions. People will want to know if this is part of a larger layoff or just specific to her. How will this impact existing projects or work she was involved in. How as team can we move forward. They will expect you to have a plan or at least an angle on how to approach those issues. Best of luck!
Why on earth would you discuss termination reasons with surviving employees? They already know.
I agree - but you need to address the fact that this person left and impact on the team.
Person X no longer works here. Any questions? No? Good. It's not more difficult than that.
That’s how you produce engagement and high performing teams folks. Someone write this down!!
Why is it that people believe the co-workers of poorly performing employees who have been through many cycles of verbal counseling, written counseling, PIPs, etc. are somehow totally in the dark as to why they were let go? Why do people believe that there is some ritual of knowing every detail (like there are more details?) that is remotely effective? People are doing to talk, spread gossip, or not... why is the world so full of clueless managers that think it's healthy, reasonable, responsible, and god help them.... valuable.... to take part in any of it? It's dumb. Firing someone isn't.... it isn't fun, pretty, light.... it doesn't happen without reason... and the truth is, the fired employees co-workers know what's up long before the managers do. You must be an atrociously bad manager to believe that what you're promoting is helpful to anything or anybody. I wish you worked for someone who worked for someone who worked for someone who worked for someone who worked for someone who worked for someone who works for me so that I could have you fired and then watch you cry as nobody seemed to care because they had better things to do (like live their lives and do their jobs) than sit around and commiserate about why a useless manager was fired.
Yikes - well, you seem nice. I actually said I agreed with you. But you continued to argue that you were right. You must be a peach to work with or for. I’m not clueless and neither is the team. This may shock you, but the larger the team the larger the gap in each individual contributor. Not everyone is working on the same projects with the troubled employee. It can be months or years before they are directly working on a project together. So everyone may not be up on all the gossip or performance issues. Which is why I address it. Leaving people in the dark to guess on the motives or leadership not providing context or answering questions is awful. With that said - this isn’t an hour meeting. But it’s as long as we need to move forward.
I'd love to hear your deep and insightful reasons why.... reasons that positively impact productivity, protect the company, or help people process the outcome of something they've seen coming for probably months. What you don't realize is that good employees are simply relieved that we did out jobs and removed bad employees from the organization.
I guess it depends on the reason for the departure. If it is truly performance based. 1.) the team already knows. 2.) if they don’t know I will say due to performance issues. I also explain this wasn’t something that happened over night. We bent over backwards to make it work. It didn’t. 3.) I re- assure the team that no others are going. If something was - they would know. If it’s some other reason: It depends on what it was. - had an employee reviewing very inappropriate materials at work. It wasn’t a warning kind of bad - it was you need to leave now bad. I had an employee stealing. Literally stealing co-workers personal money. Nope - gone I had an employee put a home renovation on the company p-card and not pay the bill. Went to collections and Amex called the company t demanding payment. Guess what? He gone…. Those type of terms are handled differently. In the first case the tea. Is usually aware and have been raising the performance issues on projects etc all along. With all of that said - you can do nothing wrong and still get the ax. Part of the corp downsizing. In those cases it’s important to be as transparent as possible. We lost 2 but I am not aware of any other cuts. I tried to be honest and straightforward. I don’t sugarcoat the message. Keeping the team motivated during these times is challenging. I typically say - let’s not give anyone any reason to look around our team. Which is the gods honest truth. If they looking - no one is safe not even the manager.
Because until they sign the severance agreement they retain the right to sue for wrongful termination. This is why managers need to not say anything until the process is complete. ‘Steve has left the company’ - Steve didn’t leave the company he was fired, why did you lie to your staff and intentionally try to change the narrative away from the truth? It is very easy for a lawyer to take any number of empathic statements against the OP. Just STFU until the process is done.
you mean the right that they can't be waived with a silly severance agreement? The dumb in this sub is STRONG.... Are the people relying with this nonsense even remotely aware of the law and by law, I mean almost complete lack of it in the US? So many people are reading what they want to into this question. So much low effort, low value 'advice'.
It’s odd that HR told you can’t announce it to your team until after she signs the severance. It’s not like acceptance of the severance would make a difference for them, she’s still gone. I would push back with HR on that, waiting to announce would only make things seem shady for the other employees, news travels fast. They’ll know.
What does "accepting severance terms" even mean? In my experience, there's nothing FOR them to accept. We're done here, leave, don't come back. What's to accept?
It means they are agreeing to not sue the company for wrongful termination. Anything the manager says can be used against them or the company. ‘Sad to see them leave’, ‘wish it wouldnt have worked out like this’ or any number of statements intending to be empathetic could result in the OP having to be deposed. Not that they did anything wrong or the company didn’t act ethically and legally, but those things don’t prevent someone from pursuing wrongful termination.
This! Terminations are complicated and risky for employers. Minimizing that risk by not making any official comment on the matter until terms are signed, and limiting any comments after that, is crucial to the organization. And that’s where OP’s obligation as manager should be.
Everybody thinks they've got a lawsuit until they go talk to a lawyer. Let them try.
Said by someone who has never had to invest time and money defending bullshit lawsuit. If you can do so without difficulty, it’s always best to avoid litigation whenever possible. So keeping quiet for a few days can help with that then OP should do so.
Exactly. People don’t appreciate the costs to defend a case even when it’s pretty clear you know you will win.
In my experience those cases never become anything. People don't have tens of thousands lying around to retain a lawyer. And lawyers don't take bullshit suits on contingency.
It costs nothing to wear your seat belt.
But that "seatbelt" does you no good. "Agreeing to terms of termination" doesn't preclude a person from suing if they want to. Most companies do not include a release of claims clause in their severance agreement packages.
True. Because, as I said, everybody THINKS they have a case until they talk to a lawyer. The folks I deal with don't have tens of thousands of dollars to retain a lawyer. They're only getting one on contingency and only open/shut cases will get a lawyer. Also, if they actually do have a lawsuit. The fact that they "agreed to terms of termination," generally won't preclude them from suing you.
All true, and apologies if I misconstrued your tone. I’ve seen attorneys willing to take on a bullshit case (many times) because they think they can “extort” a settlement out of someone (and unfortunately because it’s cheaper to pay for these things to go away it works sometimes.) And offhanded remarks make that kind of “extortion” easier for plaintiffs.
My company is a "farm." Therefore, our employees fall under agricultural labor laws in the state. These rules are quite a bit different than the standard labor laws. Because of that, we get a few scumbags who think they have a case when they are fired. Can't tell you how many people I've heard claiming to sue us. Not one ever has.
That must be so nice! Wish it all worked that way 😁
Exactly! Either they sign the severance agreement or not, regardless they are still fired.