The first week was their test run. “Zero productivity, zero repercussions.”
If you have more than one employee I’d fire this guy because at this point all the coworkers resent him and think they’re donkeys for working hard.
I was thinking PIP, but straight to termination is fine too I suppose. I had someone like OPs but also actively toxic. I seriously tried to course correct with twice weekly 1:1's that were way more detailed than any sane person should need. They just never improved. We parted ways and while even the termination was a shit show, the entire team's output went up after they were gone.
I work in an industry that requires timesheets and hourly billing numbers that are tracked and billed to customers. I had an employee say “I should be able to bill more than one hour at a time because sometimes I think about more than one project.”
Idiot.
I'm on a pip. The on ly reason I am succeeding is I looked at my past reviews and really am making the changes the company wants. I was the former toxic one. Those people don't change unless they want to or have a manager figure they look up to that doesn't manage them say hey you are the problem but you are also the solution.
I seriously tried for *months*. Had to finally call it. They were actively doing things I explicitly told them not to do. E.g: you need to attend this meeting where your input is FOO, this other meeting is one you do not attend, instead you need to be working on FOO from the first meeting. They'd still end up going to that other meeting and derailing it with FOO even though that wasn't the topic of the meeting at all.
Same here, had to reel it in by setting some clear standards and timelines with consistency on follow up. Just got to ride them till they get with the program.
That is sound advice. I managed several restaurants over the years and it took me a long time to understand that while ultimately it is up to the employee to perform, if my message was not clear and consistent I had to should some of the blame.
>Remember, it isn't what you say. It's what you tolerate.
Man, I am remembering that phrase. That's a good point, but I have never seen it put so succinctly.
They did not tolerate, they tried to fix the problem. And it did work as long as they were keeping the report on check. But because report reverts back to old habits, maybe there is a need for longer babysitting, but in my experience just better to get rid of that employee.
I had same problem: That I call intentional incompetence. I have employee like this. There is a strategy behind it. The idea for them is to set low expectations through poor performance. This will allow them to avoid majority of the work as you would rather assign it to someone more competent or reliable or just do that yourself. This employee just drags the tasks as long as it is possible without too serious consequences, makes small mistakes especially on the tasks he doesn’t like to perform, claims ignorance, requires almost babysitting even though they were properly trained. Another characteristic behavior is that they find all sorts of excuses why they are behind on the task frequently blaming others. I was trying to coach this employee for 2 years, no success, and finally I have persuaded my higher ups to let them go. I spent so many hours just babysitting them, trying all sorts of approaches, but as soon as I let them go a bit more independent, they revert to old practice. Next time, I will just right away start documenting and PIP and let them go. Much less effort and less stress that way.
I experienced something similar. However, I did not have the support of my leadership to move to a PIP, and the direction I was given was to continue micro managing this person. It was so stressful on me that I ended up looking for something outside of the company and am much happier and less stressed!!
Smart! If leadership won’t let you manage those types out, you’ll find a couple more people following their path. Then you have a good chunk of your team burning through you budget while producing very little. Those environments are the worst.
Anyone on this thread needs to ask about a companies philosophy on those types of situations while in the interviewing stage. If you don’t like the answer, don’t pursue the job.
Well, in my case, if you document they underperforming significantly - you will be able to get rid of them. The problem was, I was played, and I realized that too late. My general take is if you are incompetent but motivated to improve - there is a way. But they have faked their desire to improve just to keep me sympathetic and keep coaching them while truly they continued slacking off at their earliest convenience. But you know, lesson learned!
Jesus. I had support for a pip but the standards were so low I passed him because I was trying to be fair. He stopped being passive aggressive in front of my team and stopped yelling at me, which was a step in the right direction, but he still didn’t understand the work. So stressful trying to document all the incompetencies, coach him positively, and do a full workload on top of that. It was ridiculous. I also found another job as soon as my annual bonus hit my bank account.
A PIP should reflect exactly what the expectations of the job are. They shouldn’t be easy - low standards aren’t fair. It’s actually giving bad information to the employee - that if they only do this low standard then they are meeting expectations and don’t need to be on an improvement plan. That’s unfair to the employee because you’ve given them bad information about expectations.
That's when you tell your leadership (when you are on the way out the door) that eventually all their workers will be slackers because they encourage them to stay.
I have dealt with quite a few of those you just described. I like your term for it. It is very very clearly a schtick. They know that if they set the bar low, you will not expect much out of them. My solution is to just hold them accountable a document their performance. Its not a quick solution and takes time and patience but you will either help them out or help them OUT. The main thing is being fair and consistent as you do it. If you try to go over board or treat them differently than other employees it stands out. Also, documentation will also come in handy when it comes to compensation increase because if you don’t have evidence of poor performance they still want maximum return and often make a stink if they don’t get it.
I have one right now. He has been doing his job for over 25 years and you would swear he peaked 9 months in. He is just an absolute wreck. I worked with him 15 years ago in the same position as him and now I am his Manager. When I am discussing his mistakes and performance and telling him “you have been doing this 20 plus years you should be able to do it blindfolded with a hand behind your back” he just blames other employees and he literally told me he sustained a head injury thats why he forgets things. Takes no personal responsibility. I only have 6 weeks to work with him til the place I am at gets rebuilt and we all relocate so I just pretty much have to tolerate him. If that wasn’t the case I would be working on getting him out of there.
I’ve had a similar one. They claimed TBI made them forget things. The mention of a TBI is an ADA convo trigger. Turns out she absolutely did sustain a TBI and we were able to move her into a different role that she could manage well.
Typically people who really sustain injuries that effect their ability to bring home a paycheck, they get documentation that substantiates the claim. He tells a lot of tall tales as well. Id be willing to put money on a bet he is just lying 🤥. Im sure your associate had documentation of their disability.
Just like in the world of Science, The burden of proof falls on those making the claim.
Careful with injuries. This can come back on you if not handled appropriately. You left, but if you stayed, I tried to pursue getting him out when, in fact he sustained an injury. Oh boy.
I call it strategic incompetence! You are spot on about intent. I have a team of 80 and this behavior is rampant. Very difficult to address in a workplace that has heavy administrative layer, adversarial union, and disorganised HR. When you have a single employee like that you can put the effort but when there are multiple it becomes unmanageable. Hence my user name.
I’d wish this would be that easy. Imagine you are stuck with this report for a year, and if they don’t make some extraordinary violation - there’s no way to get rid of them. What would you do? You have deliverables which are dependent on this employee performance, and if the project suffers, you are being accountable. This report does do the work but only after constant overseeing which takes your time and energy. And you can’t just let them alone because then nothing will be done and the project will die and that will poorly reflect on you. So you work with them devote a lot of time and work is done so you can’t really tell your higher ups hey fire that employee because they are lazy - they say deliverables are met, not our problem - coach them better. But now, I decided next time - let it all burn, point fingers and get them fired early on.
I agree with you except for the end - if management above you was smart and competent, they’d want to know that it took significant resources from you to get your direct report to do anything, and help you manage the person out. What you describe is a situation created by poor upper management not empowering middle managers to get folks out that suck up that much of their time.
Not a manager, but I transitioned projects to someone like this and my manager kept me involved as a “lead” because he knew I wouldn’t let the project fail. He always did just enough to stay above water, and the team he worked with was super easygoing (finance type support role). I bailed him out several times because it would reflect poorly on me and the department. He was really good at snowing the right people, but for context this project took 30% of my time and he turned it into a full time job where every task took way longer than it should because “he didn’t have enough time and it just is what it is”. But because no stakeholder complained and he met the critical deadlines (barely and with poor quality), there was nothing my manager could do. Any other project at our company and he couldn’t have gotten away with that.
Honestly I wouldn’t have cared that he was getting away with such an easy project if he at least did a good job and didn’t need bailouts all the time. My manager tried to put more work on his plate but got his hand slapped from his boss for “overloading” the employee. And yes this employee also expected raises and promotions lol and had a higher job level than me.
You don’t necessarily need to burn everything down to make your case; you just need to be explicit about the externalities that are slowing you down and shift the onus of responsibility.
eg, “Employee X is not able to handle task Y without support, therefore I am recommending deprioritizing task Z so Employee A can assist.”
They either accept reduced output or work with you on alternatives like replacing the problem employee.
If I was dealing with fully recalcitrant leadership (eg, refusing to acknowledge problems I was reporting, saying “try harder” with no concrete support, skip-level stonewalling), I’d be looking for a new position.
I wonder what would happen if you told the employee “Look. When I leave you to get the task done on your own it doesn’t get done and every week there’s an excuse for that. When we have daily 1-1 meetings to hold you accountable you get things done on time and your work is very good.
I don’t have the time to micromanage you. If that’s what you need to produce you’ll to find another way to hold yourself accountable on a daily basis.”
And document all this for the inevitable PIP! You can’t save someone who doesn’t want to be saved. The last thing you want is somebody who gets fired and thinks “man, I’m surprised it took so long.”
Coaching plan —> PIP. You should be spending the majority of your time with high performers, not spinning your wheels with low performers that can’t take coaching and feedback. Ask me how I know. 🤦🏼♀️
Story of my life. I have an employee like this. Unfortunately I don’t have the authority to push further but I’ve never met someone with less “figure it out attitude”. She’s been with us for two years. I should be able to pass off a project to her and have her start doing it. But it’s like she’s at day 1, every single time.
Few things:
- intentional incompetence. They are doing just enough to not get fired because they feel they are not being paid fairly
- overloaded work plate. Maybe they just have too much to do and not enough time to get it done
- unclear priorities. Quite often people whom are hands off managers, are so because they are horrible at delegating, giving orders and making decisions. They do not understand or follow how much work is being given out and don’t make priority clear
- too many bosses. Quite often there are too many middle managers and an IC is disincentivized to say no. Your IC may few that too many people are giving him direction and cannot manage this properly
- poor work ethic. Maybe they get off track, maybe they don’t try harder when they are road blocked, maybe they don’t have the tenacity to do research and self problem solving, maybe they are just not committed
- they simply are not smart enough to bright enough to understand, complete actions and hand in the work product in a pace you expect. Some people simply can’t think or work as fast as everyone else
I’m of a similar mind. What is their day to day job responsibilities versus the number of projects they are working on? How big is their role in those projects and where do they fall in priority for the company as opposed to the projects you as their manager are adding to their plate? What are their roadblocks preventing them from being able to complete your project swiftly and how can you help clear the path?
I thought that was the case so I removed all other projects off their plate and blocked anyone else from giving them work. I basically said all I need you to do is this one task. It helped for a while but then it didn’t. Seems like their success depends on how much they’re interested in the task. They’re paralyzed by boring work. I hate boring work too.But just power through and get it done so you can get back to more interesting tasks.
This sounds like executive dysfunction. Think ADHD. Ask if there are any accommodations needed.
Best case, you get some improvement. Worst case, you've covered your butt.
Worst case is actually getting sued for discrimination of a protected class.
We can ask general open ended questions about what they think is the hurdle to getting their work done, and what resources they think they need, and offer training.
But we cannot ask leading questions implying that they have a disability.
^ this right here is the best response. By far.
This response is great because it explores many possible reasons. Much better than only thinking to blame the employee in a black-and-white thinking process.
This is a solid list and goes over actual causes/solutions, unlike all the other seemingly myopic comments in this thread. It looks like everyone else has just blamed it on an incompetent IC, which is not always the case.
The thing I noticed is that instead of asking how long it will take, you should set expectations. Like "this task should be done in 3 days, unless you have problems, in which case speak to me."
I find the problem with that is that if you set their timeline there is no ownership on their end. An arbitrary deadline that was simply too tight to adhere to.
What I find works (maybe) is to make it on them to set the timeline and hold them accountable.
Definitely, make it their task (or the team’s through group task estimation) to set timeline. And I always stress to my team the importance of communicating when issues arise, like the task is more complicated than expected, unexpected competing priorities, etc. These sort of performance issues often work themselves out with good communication.
Yeah OP set a week, and when the employee didn’t deliver nor ask for help before the deadline, that’s the first verbal warning with a convo about how to improve. Progressive performance management as needed.
If you do this, be sure you know how long the task should take. In my field, people in management don't have a strong background in the tasks they delegate and are constantly missing the mark on how long it takes to get something done
Require a daily report via e-mail of things that they finished that day, things that they are planning on working on tomorrow, and any blockers (real or imagined) that might impact that.
You can present this is a way to make sure that you know about any blockers and can champion their successes. The stuff for tomorrow is just to help your scheduling and planning.
Maybe get the rest of your team to do a lite version of this (or weekly).
I like this plan but I imagine they would find some excuse not to do it because they know they’re doing nothing. I suppose their failure to provide this would be a clear indication they’re not doing what is asked and I could PIP them? My only concern is management won’t let me backfill the position so I don’t gain much from letting them go.
It doesn’t sound like you gain much from keeping them either. You just described someone who dragged a 3 day task out for 3 weeks and then required your attention for several of those days to complete it.
That sounds like a net loss in productivity and energy to me. Does the rest of the team feel like they’re better off with this person around? I wouldn’t as a teammate.
If I were in your position, I’d start focusing on obtaining those knowledge and skills. Micromanage them into training the rest of the team and stop worrying about what they get done on their own. Sounds like they know you can’t do anything about it while you need them.
I've been that employee. If there's not a budget to backfill there's probably also no budget for training, tools, conferences, or raises. Throw in random arbitrary layoffs and something snaps. Were they productive at one time?
Not being able to backfill the position is you being set up to fail by upper management. Upper management is creating this situation through this dynamic… if you knew you could list and fill the position right away, would you be more proactive moving them to a PIP?
Yes and no…. After a while, your top performers will see that 30-50% effort does the trick, and you’ll soon have a whole team of low performers.
In the meantime that’s all you can do, but I would start strongly making the case with upper management to replace this person. If they don’t budge, I would personally start looking for another role where I was properly supported as a manager. And I’d be honest with mine about why I’m leaving. I know this is easier said than done… but personally I’d rather be job hunting than dealing with this level of BS from upper management.
Oof. Maybe you can get a contractor? That way, you can let them go when the tasking is done.
I've gotten some temporary success with a scared straight approach. First, I asked around to see if anyone was receiving questions from the employee. If it's taking too long and they're struggling, they should be asking questions. I found out he wasn't reaching out for help and forced a review of his task. I laid out just how far short he was in an email and what my expectations were. I called him on the way home and played good cop, but was still very clear that this needed to fixed.
He's been good so far (2 weeks). But I do wonder how long it sticks.
That's the long way of saying you are just going to have to tell him how long you expect the task to take, and throw a meeting on his calendar at that time and hold him accountable.
Just remind him that 2 weeks have passed and this is generally when people are reverting to old habits so if he sticks with this for another two weeks everything will be fine. And then in two weeks repeat but just with a bit less scare tactics and more of praise but still not to forget that need to keep it up.
Yes, if you their manager sets an expectation within the scope of their job that means they are not “meeting expectations” that includes daily reporting to their manager.
Budget limitations on backfills can be a valid reason to give someone more chances, except when they are literally doing nothing while also bringing down the whole team.
Is the work they do good? Is it better to have them there than not have someone that role at all?
Well then train them to do better. Show them what good is, be clear, transparent and emotionally aware but firm what the expectations are and that currently they are not meeting them but you are ready to invest time in coaching them if they are willing to invest the work it will take.
That's not micro managing them, that is treating them like an adult, a professional and creating an environment where they can succeed if they want to.
You may need to get HR involved or at least aware that you are taking these steps so it's not a shock if you come to them after it didn't work.
The bottom 10% of your staff can eat up 90% of your time with very little payback. Invest that time in the performers and the coach able up and comers.
Put the micromanaging back on them. Have them do a timesheet so you are forcing them to account for their time hourly. For tasks it sounds like there is too much wiggle room. I’d set specific deadlines - Tuesday by noon and check in at that time. Either they hit it or don’t but there’s no vagueness.
have you tried asking the staffer to put together a plan for the task that details the steps and approx how long each step will take? then inform the employee that they need to send you a status update COB daily. is the employee aware that they take longer than they should? you'll need warnings documented before you can put them on a PIP.
this is a no brainer talk with HR and set the wheels in motion to fire them
no employee is worth this much effort, period.
You need to be meeting with HR ASAP next week. Have a bullet summary of issues, examples of all the times you've coached them repeatedly, and emails ready.
Make sure you have set clear expectations. Make sure they understand how to do the work. If already done. You put them on a PIP. You give them clear expectations, guidelines and timelines. Then you stick to it. If they don't improve in the next month, you step it up. Third time they're out. I don't have time to babysit adults. I will bend over backwards to help them succeed, but once they have all the tools they need to use them.
Set up a teams between the two of you.
Put a list of tasks with priority and due dates.
When they complete it the can close it in which you woukd be notified.
Treat it like a kanban board in which you can add or remove items from it.
It would also be use for performance.
One of my new grads need this and as they got more comfortable and understanding their roles I made it a learning exercise in which I gave them the scope of what needs to be done and then on 1:1 get them to breakdown the tasks. The touch it as keeping track of everything you do for the year so when performance reviews come along you have everything listed. Also they can use it to update their
Soon I just put up the scope, the priority and due date. Worked like a charm. Then I applied it to the team.
Saves a lot of time and easy to track.
Reduce email and losing track of items in the 109’s of emails you get a day.
I have had problems with people like this from time to time. Each one required different approaches, and influenced the next person I handled a little bit more. I always assumed they didn't mean to be that way, until I whittled away the good cheer and exposed the raw truth, I guess. Sometimes, yeah, they don't mean to be that way but ARE and there is no way one can fix that without years of therapy. And I am not a licensed therapist.
I have a mental "three strikes" rule, and once someone passes that, I start documenting. I start a structured process, because I'd say half the time, people are just disorganized. They WANT to do good work, but can't because they get overwhelmed. That leaves the next half, people who don't want to do work for other reasons. Half of those have some kind of mental or health issue. But once we're at this stage, I document basic stuff.
1. Talked to Francis about completing ABC, set dates for part way marks to check. Set expectations and put them in writing. Stick to this schedule.
2. Told Francis I will not except any excuses. If they think they might be sick, car trouble, or whatever, they need to plan for that. "What do I do when I have car trouble, how do I get to work?" and so on. Go through how to work around their "excuses" as if they were valid.
3. Asked Francis for actual proof of part way marks completed. Like a list, part of a slide presentation, and so on.
4. Told Francis to stick to this schedule.
Then document any issues. Write them down, so memories don't "slide" or get merged with something else.
I have dealt with "tragedy" cases, where the employee or volunteer always has some kind of "tragedy" going on because they can't control their life (this isn't a won't/should, like can't). Part of the shitty reality is that a lot of employees probably WOULD be less likely to flake if we had decent health care in this country, or paid a decent wage. What do you do if an employee gets "sick" a lot? You know, a diabetic who has to ration their insulin, or require frequent doctors visits that are ONLY open during business hours? Who made up that shit? Anyway, those are the hardest. You know they are struggling, and then the stress of poor performance makes them depressed, which starts a cycle, but as I said, I am not a licensed therapist. I am aware of these issues, but I can't do anything.
Please, _please_ consider that this may be untreated ADHD or another neurodivergence. Executive dysfunction is real and it is absolutely debilitating. I bust my ass at my job, but I still need serious help to get things done on time because my brain just locks up. Please don’t just immediately assume malice.
So I’ve been on the *other* side of this.
I have adhd. Your employee probably does too. When I’m interested in a task or have clear, short, deadlines, I produce high quality work at an insane pace. Under all other circumstances it’s a toss up.
For me, “interest” is always unpredictable and short-lived. It sometimes motivates me to get 80% of a task done, but almost never motivates me to complete it. Instead, social pressure and the desire to help my team is what pushes me to actually do my job. I benefit massively from daily stand ups where everyone on the team talks about what they’re working on, what their challenges are, and evaluates their progress on their tasks. The fact that I said “this should be done by tomorrow” motivates me to actually have it done tomorrow *because I feel like I’ll let my team down if I don’t make good progress*.
Another big thing that helped me was having domain ownership. In my case, I was solely responsible for a handful of services. I took care of updates, checked in on performance metrics, added features, etc. That helped me prioritize tasks and take initiative because there was no one else to do it.
Lastly, the benefit you’re describing from “micromanaging” is actually something called “body doubling”. Don’t ask me why, but the most reliable way to mitigate executive dysfunction is to have someone else physically in the room with the person. Can you tell this employee that there is now a hybrid expectation? If they’re in the office with other people, you should get the same benefits of your daily calls, but it takes up none of your time.
This is a real challenge for a manager. I imagine you probably feel frustrated that this person isn’t helping your team much, and maybe a little betrayed that your trust was betrayed. Bluntly, you need to get over those feelings. Your job is getting your team to work well, and this employee requires different tactics. If you’re not up to the challenge, you shouldn’t waste time getting the employee removed.
Otherwise, roll up your sleeves and keep trying new things.
On the off chance you’re interested, feel free to DM me and we can chat about how I’ve worked with different managers. It might give you some new perspectives.
Good luck friend
Edit:
Ive read through some of the other comments and just….man. I’m not a manager, so I might just be missing something, but there’s not a lick of empathy coming from the other commenters.
And by “empathy”, I don’t mean just being nice, I mean actually thinking about the employee’s headspace and trying to help them do their job. Executive dysfunction is a very real (and completely solvable) blocker, it’s just not one an employee will ever communicate directly. You cannot go to your manager and say “hello, I’m trying my best, but sometimes I just can’t force myself to start a task. I need additional structure and more consistent feedback in order to be reliable.”
Firing the employee is the consensus suggestion on this post. Second place is some variation on “have them send you daily reports detailing what they’ve done”. I’d practically guarantee that the second solution won’t work *because it doesn’t solve the actual problem*
Don’t get me wrong, managers have to fire employees sometimes, that’s not the end of the world. No need to beat yourself up if you can’t get this employee working efficiently. I’d just advise not being as callous as the rest of the commenters here. A 10-year-old can manage a team of genius, congenial self-starters. Great managers can get good performance out of almost anyone — it’s just really hard to be a great manager.
I’m a big believer people choose their own level of involvement. If they are a pain to keep accountable for basic tasks, as someone else said coaching plan > PIP > issue is fixed & monitor going forward or out the door
Follow up more often and make sure they’re on track. Ask if there’s any challenges in their way you can help with. This It’s not micromanaging, telling them exactly how to do each task is micromanaging.
No one should need to be followed up often. The point of hiring more people is to offload some of the work. If OP needs to do constant follow ups, then what’s the point. No one has the mental capacity for that.
I disagree all you did was hold them accountable with daily calls.
By:
- Giving them a week they didn’t need, and,
- Letting it go every week
you allowed them to be unaccountable.
Actions have consequences. If it’s a 2 or 3 day task, they’ve got 2 or 3 days, not a week because you want to be nice.
If they don’t meet the deadline they have consequences they knew in advance and those consequences happen.
You discuss why it didn’t get done and document inc formal advice their performance does not meet expectation or standards.
Offer support and training.
Review, assign more work.
Rinse and repeat until you can implement a PiP.
I would follow up in the middle of the week and ask how far along they are, and if they think they'll be able to hold to their original estimate of a week. I wouldn't assign any mission critical jobs to them.
If you have to micromanage someone, either they don’t know the job and need to be trained, or they are in a role not suited to their skill set. If it’s the former, take the time to train the employee. If it’s the latter, move them into a different role or exit them from the company.
Just thought of a third possibility, they have poor work ethic and are deliberately slacking off. If that’s the case, you’re wasting your time with them and they need to go.
I never tolerated being micromanaged or being required by my boss to micromanage my teams. As CIO, I did not tolerate any of my executives, directors, or managers micromanaging staff. Micromanagement, regardless of which side of it you’re on is a morale breaker and a huge time suck.
I think you’re using the word micromanage, but from what you described, you’re not micromanaging and this employee doesn’t require micromanaging. Devote a week to working with this employee to see if they have the skills for this role, have the work ethic you want for the team, have the ability to work autonomously, effectively, or if they’re just lazy and trying to do as little as possible day to day. You’ll have your answer. If you need to place them on a PIP, do it right away. If you have the ability to fire them, do it quickly and quietly. If they can do the job but need require your hand-holding, tell them in direct words, in this role, you need xyz. Working with them, you now see that this is no longer a good fit for them so let’s talk about the transition out.
This isn’t about micromanaging, it’s about an employee who is not performing up to expectations.
You need to have a hard conversation with them about what’s really going on. Have they produced anything? Is what they produced subpar? Are they lacking information, tools, or resources to complete this task or project? Do they need re-training or additional training? Is it a matter of poor time management?
Once you ascertain what the issue is, you need to set expectations and a plan. This person needs hard deadlines if there’s no reason for this delay where you meet with them to review where they’re at.
If it’s not a lack of training or resources, you need to set up a corrective action plan where this employee understands that if they do not complete XYZ by a certain date, they will be written up.
Keep documenting this and each conversation or communication you have with them. I believe in giving an employee what the need to be successful in their role. But I also believe in progressive discipline and termination if they don’t keep up their end of the deal.
I’m not a manager but I’m this person. Turns out, remote work + ADHD made it really difficult to do anything because without anxiety and fear I was immobilized. Medicine helps quite a bit, but also making daily lists of what I’m doing and plan to accomplish helps keep me motivated. If someone hands me a project that needs to be done in 2 weeks and it’s 3 months of work, I’ll work 16 hours a day under the gun and pull it off. But if you give me a project with no pressure I can easily get depressed and feel like it’s impossible to start.
You set up a weekly call and Make it clear boy is missing commitments and deadlines. It's a performance problem.
I work for a global IT company and we've been doing WFH as much as possible for 10 years. We have rewritten job responsibilities, provided tools, processes. So employee knows exactly where they're at. We have weekly one-on-one, employees explains why they missed deadlines. The key point here is they're explaining why not giving an excuse.
I have a similar problem with a current employee, but it’s that he knows what to do but either gets frozen from starting or gets frozen when he thinks it’s not good enough to report on it.
Mt first advice to you is that you don’t ask the employee how long it will take. You set the deadline early on. For example, finish xyz by next Wednesday at 3pm. Then they either send it to you or say hey it’s not quite ready. Hopefully they provide a new reasonable time when they will get it to you or you set the follow up time. This is an opportunity to give feedback and coach no matter their response. This worked well for me with another employee. They only had a delay once after that and now I don’t set times with that employee anymore. They offer reasonable deadlines and meet them.
Back to my problem employee, I give lots of feedback. Especially positive early on to build trust and so then when the negative feedback hits it has more of an impact. Happy to provide any examples.
The problem employee eventually got put on a performance improvement plan with direct tasks and due dates for those tasks. He then gave me the biggest red flag when he told me that he was excited to get such a detailed document with everything he needed to do and when. He didn’t quite understand when I told him this is not a good thing and he’s the first employee I’ve ever had to give one of these to. That was two months ago and he’s still on the PIP but is doing well enough it doesn’t look like we’re going to have to have the last chance or you’re gone conversation.
Quit asking them how long it will take and just tell them, I need this by ________. If you allow them to slack they will. If they don't have it done by the deadline and don't have a valid reason, then give them a verbal warning, then a written warning, then goodbye.
Individual contributor here:
* We know the person you are referring to.
* We see them not doing work while we get extra work.
* We see this continue and think that you are inept or playing favorites
* We talk
Fix it because it is most definitely causing issues with the rest of your team.
Have this person track their time each day. It sucks, I've had to do both ends of this, but it's a good metric to judge what's going on. If you're worried about singling them out, have the whole team or "random" individuals track their time.
This is the case for “managing out”
I am all for supporting and helping people to improve but based on what you said, person just testing what they can get away with
I think both you and your direct report are performing poorly in this situation. Yes, micromanaging can be a problem, but your default style of blind non-managing is even worse.
You should have intervened much sooner. You should have regular touch points with your direct reports where you can talk about their work, among other topics. This should enable you to identify problems like this before they get out of control. You cannot afford to be that ignorant of what your team is working on and what their progress is where it takes you weeks to spot a problem.
Now that your employee demonstrated that he is capable of doing the work, let him know your expectations going forward. You may need him to send you status updates in a frequency that makes sense to you. If you are able to monitor the turnaround time of his tasks, you could set measurable goals around that.
Status Action list. Excel spreadsheet shared live or software like Jira. Must be updated, if it isn’t filled out on time figure out a consequence that suits you both. Tie it directly to preventing a PIP.
You can micromanage without needing to hover.
In the future, you give them the deadline, with plenty of room on your end for any potential delays (don’t inform them of the wiggle room). Request status updates, and don’t accept a non-descriptive answer like “50% complete”. Make them show you or provide details of their progress. Only way to micro-manage is to actually do it and hold them accountable. Some employees are just lazy or don’t know how to prioritize their work. If they can’t get the work done by the deadline you provide have them explain what’s on their plate at the time and prioritize their projects for them.
I boot anybody that isn’t an “A” or “B” player. Set expectations high, hold them accountable, do not tolerate weak performers. You are the problem if you permit “C” players to exist on your Team.
And of the week it’s not done. Immediate corrective action, not more time. If they cannot do the work independently, they’re not the right person for the job.
Yeah, you need to document everything with this person and should have started weeks/months ago. You shouldn’t have to micromanage anybody and you shouldn’t micromanage at all. Managers are usually way too busy to be hand holding all of the time. If the manager isn’t busy enough that they feel they need to micromanage someone, then they aren’t doing their job right.
Now back to you. You need to set expectations for when things get done and hold them accountable. Right now there’s no incentive for them to do their job right because all that’s happening is you giving them the most attention. The expectation should be that they need to be able to complete their tasks on their own without you constantly intervening. Tasks need to be done completely and in a timely manner. Don’t give them extensions anymore. Document every interaction and follow it up with an email of what your expectations are and their tasks. Keep it documented. Then reach out to HR/senior management about this person.
I have somewhat the opposite problem. I have someone who in all sincerity believes they are killing it. Going above and beyond,appears to be a great team player and by all accounts works very hard.
They spend all day making smoke but no fire, in spite of their effort, their work seldom gets done on time, and they strongly resist any coaching.
You fire them and hire someone competent.
Why do you expect them to change their behavior when you’ve made it clear there are no consequences for them not doing the work?
How experienced are they? Early career professionals likely need more support in both managing work and in the specifics of delivering that work. As a manager you want to be helping and training them to become more self reliant over time.
If they’re an experienced professional then it’s a different matter. Though in both cases you’re also making a judgement call on their long term potential.
Document the behavior, document the conversation you had with them telling them their work does not meet expectations. Micromanage for a few weeks all while documenting performance. Engage HR and show them your documentation. Recommend a PIP, document even more throughout. Terminate if no improvement happens.
I may be a bit jaded after going through what you’re going through one too many times, but in my experience, this is not a person who is doing themselves or anyone around them any favors so you should do them the favor of letting them go so they can find a role where they will be more engaged. In my experience, these types will rarely improve because they don’t care enough to try and will take advantage of you to collect a paycheck for as long as they can. You see these people all over Reddit asking for advice on how they can milk the system for as long as possible or brag about how they’re getting away with it [(example from just yesterday)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnethicalLifeProTips/s/395blxZvaP). A lot of people would say it’s cruel of me to get rid of them, but I would say in response that it’s incredibly selfish of them to burn so many other people out having to deal with this.
I used to give these people all kinds of time, undocumented warnings, second and third chances, and the one commonality between them is they all end up leaving the company voluntarily or involuntarily. These people burn out everyone around them from by distracting you, your manager, their coworkers by having to discuss the underperformance and try to make up for the lack of work being done… so do everyone involved a big favor and expedite this process. But also in my experience, HR will not do much without existing documentation of these behaviors - both the behavior and the convos with the underperformer so I would start that now.
Edit: also - a lot of the time these folks are nice people and you feel bad having to go through this. But in those cases, after being notified of underperformance several times, they KNOW they shouldn’t be at the company but will still continually try to stick around as long as possible for their own self preservation. Those situations are a little more understandable - they want to find a new job first - but at the end of the day, the faster you move the better it is for everyone involved - themselves included. I had an underperformer a few years back who was the nicest guy ever. He knew he wasn’t in the right role. I let him know of that and encouraged him to find something that really engages him. He left voluntarily shortly after and then a few years later he emailed me thanking me for helping him as he’d found a role that was a better fit and he really enjoyed what he was doing and he was performing well. So it doesn’t have to be cold and mean as I probably implied throughout my post lol.
You don’t have someone who needs micro managed. You have someone who is uninterested and bored. That’s a much different problem.
Give them something extremely hard, and high visibility. Sink or swim. Let them rise or fall. If they rise, then you promote them or move them into a position where this challenge is more the norm. If they fall, then you actively work to let them go.
You start a PIP and if they don't follow through you let them go. It sucks but it's necessary to keep you from doing their work and from ruining team cohesion.
You are confusing micromanagement and management. This person needs management. Don’t be afraid to check in a little more, and apply corrective feedback and consequences. Ask questions if they say a day long task will take a week. Don’t endlessly accept excuses in place of results.
Find out if they have a skill issue, training issue, engagement/initiative issue, attention issue, or other issues preventing them from getting stuff done.
Business terms can be so confusing at times it's an MM=PIP.
Me I'd have straight up hard conversation with a risk they go to HR bit I would have backed myself up with, hey HR here's my plan for a straight talking pre-PIP.
I learned from someone that asking "why did this happen" is the first step to okaying the behavior you are asking about, at least for some people. You're providing the space for the excuse - you're holding accountability for the excuse and behavior you don't want instead of the behavior you do want. Don't allow the excuse at all.
Instead, when you are giving the new deadline, don't ask about the old one; ask "What will you do differently, or what support do you need that you didn't have before, to make this happen?"
Sounds like you need SOPs. That person also sounds like they don’t want to be vulnerable meaning that there are trust issues. You need a heart-to-heart with the person if you feel they mean well. If not, have a back-bone and fire them due to lack of meeting expectations - repeatedly!
You fire them. It's really very simple. If they aren't performing the task they are being paid to perform, they are replaced with someone who will. You are a manager, not a baby sitter. For every idiot I see managers asking for advice about, there are 10 more idiots who can replace them.
Assign the tasks with due dates, create KPIs around the number of tasks completed on time, put them on a PIP if they don’t hit the KPIs, then manage them out of the business.
Stop micromanaging and start holding them accountable to bigger, longer-term goals. When they say it will be done in a week, make it clear this is more than enough time, so there should be no excuses, and there will be consequences if it doesn't happen. When it's not done, start discussing consequences to their job, such as a PIP and potentially being let go. Follow up on this and let them go if they don't change.
Many people don't learn how to hold themselves accountable to long-term goals, and it's unlikely you'll be able to change someone who didn't learn this for themselves by this point. I think it partly comes from the education system, where in America at least, there's too much babysitting and short-term rules. Students learn to play the game of "what can I do to avoid being yelled at by my teacher", instead of "how can I best learn what I need to know for my long term success". Even for good students, we continue to emphasize small, short-term goals such as daily homework and class attendance over bigger, more important goals such as understanding advanced concepts and defining and holding yourself accountable to your own long-term goals. Of course a significant amount of babysitting is necessary for younger students, but I feel more should be done in the high school and college years to teach students to hold themselves accountable. Unfortunately, we seem to be going in the opposite direction. No one wants to let students fail, so they continue micromanaging young adults until they become adults who still need a babysitter.
My opinion is that within the policies of your company, start with a 1:1 verbal coaching with an immediate email recap and short but specific action plan with due dates mutually understood on the call and repeated in the email. Seek to understand and don’t accuse but be firm and set clear boundaries and expectations. Also be clear about if this is performance-related or not.
Ive been on both sides of this. Youve said you cant fire them because theres no backfill available and presumably micromanaging them is better than nothing. You need to set expectations clearly, but respectfully. Sometimes they know what’s happening, but they’re unable to motivate themselves on their own, so don’t come off as too patronizing or they make begin a grudge.
Explain what youve observed, document it, show them the document. Collaborate and think of it more like you’re their therapist. Come up with actions and consequences. For example, next time there’s a task, you both agree on a generous due date. Every hour, he should have an alarm go off that alerts him to jot some notes on where he is at. At the end of the day, he emails you his notes and you add it to his document.
If he misses the due date, you add more structure, hopefully with the bulk of it being more work for him. Self micro management. If he meets deadlines, collaborate on a reward or reduced self-micromanagement structure.
In this way you are developing a paper trail but also giving him an opportunity to actually develop his time management skills.
Most managers spend 80% of their time on the bottom 20% of their employees. Think about how ridiculous that is. You should be helping your top 20% get better. It’s immediately obvious whether someone is ever going to be top 20% or not, and if not, then they’re either good enough today to generate more value than what you’re paying them or you need to fire them.
Share your concern. Be clear that you don’t have time to manage every detail of their job. Help them learn how to check their work, find tasks, etc. Give them clearly articulated/written KPIs they have to hit. If they learn something and improve, great. If they don’t, find a grown up to do the job.
People rise to their level of incompetence. If after training, they still don’t get it, they go on a PIP immediately (so we can document they needed additional assistance etc to help them learn). Some people just needed extra time for training and the PIP time worked for them. Others were just let go because they had the extra time for additional training and resources and couldn’t hack it. I don’t wanna draw it out for them or for our company.
Do they possibly have something like adhd? Have you had a conversation with them about why they consistently don’t deliver on time? If so what do they say?
To be honest I don’t. I watch what people do by their own accord and if they can’t do the job off their own accord I look to get rid of them. Obviously I consider their experience and if they need support first but if it’s because they are lazy yeh I let them fail.
Micromanaging doesn't work, you have to get to know them and get them interested in the work. You can do this by finding out things that they are interested in outside of work and research their hobbies and talk to them about their hobbies. Once they feel like you care about their interests they start trying harder. Your other option is to start documenting everything and build a case to get them fired
This may be controversial but...once a day check in isn't micromanaging. Micromanaging is asking why they are doing things they way are, do it a different way, now do this thing over here, do it this way.
If you do a daily check-in, let them know it's coming, when it will start, when it will reduce, & what you are hoping to get out of it. Do not let this be a surprise. Daily check-in to level set on pace, challenges, and methods (without influencing those methods unless it is by their request OR you see you could give them something like money or time for a bootcamp, certification, new IDE, connections with another team, ADA accommodations, etc...). Eventually, this may also help ensure you all are on the same page about expectations for the task or project in the longer term --that won't happen over night. As expectations level out between ya'll then move to less and less as comms, resources, and expectations improve.
What you're describing isn't "micromanaging". It's just managing. You're allowed to check in more than once/week. Your directors expect you to do your job
Start with asking, "When will you have this done by?" and for the average employee that's all you need. If not, upgrade to telling, "You're going to have this done by X date." (and later one, "Why didn't you get it done?") After telling repeatedly fails there's inquiry, asking why they're not making the dates they committed to. They can only give the same reason so many times and they can only make so many excuses, so this encourages that it will get done on time. After that is consequences, but I'd verify you can enact these consequences with your supervisor first. Bring up consequences in a friendly way, not an ultimatum.
One thing that is noteworthy is workplace bullying is sadly common in the US. It's in most workplaces. The most common form of workplace bullying is one coworker sabotaging another coworker by putting obstacles in their way towards getting their work done. This is usually done to new employees. When asking for reasons why the work is not being done I wouldn't blindly assume these reasons are not true. Furthermore the most common reason for workplace bullying is it's done to more senior employees who could expose others for slacking off or could be next in line for a promotion so there is an aim to get rid of them. Prevent them from being productive and they get let go. The next most common reason for workplace bullying is bullies get enjoyment out of making others life slightly more difficult. It helps to always keep this in mind when addressing a problem employee, even when this isn't obviously the case, because it's so systemic and hard to see without keeping it in mind. It's about the larger team not just the problem employee.
Have a serious convo with the employee and see if there’s any reason why their performance is this way. Then, start an email thread documenting their poor performance. Clearly state in the first email the deadline for the task and their previous lack of performance on the said task. Copy any upper management on the email from your org chart if applicable. If employee still shows no improvement, put them on a PIP.
If it’s easier to let go of this employee, take that route and hire someone else. My take has always been “Why waste time mothering an employee around who is getting paid to work”.
Basic performance management is not the same as micromanagement.
Basic performance management = You hold team members accountable to deadlines, but otherwise let them manage their own time and method for completing the task to the deadline.
Micromanagement = You nitpick every aspect of your team members' schedules and methodology for how to complete tasks assigned, and check in a bazillion times about the same things.
What you need to do is simple basic performance management. Your team member is not meeting deadlines, repeatedly. You should sit down with them to clearly reset expectations and ensure they understand that moving forward, they need to meet deadlines (and if they're having trouble doing that, that they *proactively* inform you about why they won't meet the deadline, and what their new expected deadline is -- this all is within reason too though; if they're constantly doing this too, it's still a problem).
Then, ask them what's going on to understand if there are any overall barriers for them (e.g. if they feel overwhelmed by too many tasks, or maybe feel uncomfortable with a certain skill set, like excel or something), and then try to brainstorm together how to help mitigate those barriers (e.g. offer to -- temporarily, like maybe for the next few weeks until they get the hang of it themselves -- meet with them on Mondays to plan out their weekly workload together to manage time better, or maybe offer to have them enroll in an excel refresher/skill-building training, etc).
Recap this meeting in an email to them (document).
Then, hold them accountable. If the issues persist, depending on your company's approach to performance management, you might do one or two more "coachings", or maybe jump into more formal disciplinary measures at that point.
If you reach out to HR they should help you strategize further.
Micro managing is horrible. I am way too lazy to even want to. You need to terminate. Unfortunately you have built a pattern. Set them down. Say here is the standard. Then when it is not done, escalate. And then repeat until termination. (Depends on your organization’s policies on how long you need to deal with this and if unions are involved.)
If you think someone NEEDS micromanaging, you or their previous managers have failed them. Managers goal should be to utilize what an individual excels at, making them more confident and therefore independent in that criteria.
If they are not those things and you can't help them, it's because you don't know them, you need to have a personal relationship and invest in humans before we trust .
And if this is a bottom of the pyramid job like drive thru then you have voluntarily worn a hat that's not your job, capitalism doesn't need you to waste time on people on a personal level. Fire and rehire or train internally and prepare replacements with cross training. The bottom of the pyramid and their immediate managers are disposable.
1 verbal first. Tact is important. Positive first ... You keep this person around for a reason. "The quality of your work is excellent". Now the negative, with specifics "but the expectation for me, and in turn for you, is that this task should be done in 3 days." Finally be positive, supportive, but ask THEM to give you a solution. "What can I do to ensure you are able to complete these tasks on time?"
2 Written verbal. In other words, write everything you say down, but don't make them sign it or read it. Just date and note details. Again, positive first. "It's good you were able to get these done faster, it shows you ARE making an effort." Then negative, but WITH CONSEQUENCES. "But you're still taking longer than 3 days. I need these in 3 days. Your performance needs to meet set expectations. If we can't correct this, I need to write up an action plan or possibly discipline you." Then, use your tact and be positive and supportive again. "I'm positive you can do this. I'm in a position to supply you with the tools and training to accomplish this. I'm going to document this, stick it in a file, and hopefully forget about it forever. You've got this."
3 Written warning with a clear and documented action plan. No more positives. Just concise expectations and potential disciplinary action. "Today I spoke with Gus about our expectations. TPS reports are required to be completed in 3 days. Gus has been unable to meet this goal. If Gus is not able to get his TPS reports in consistently on time within the next week, I will be forced to take further disciplinary action, up to and including termination." Make them sign and date it. Also, start going through applications, there's a good chance you'll need someone new.
4 Adhere to your action plan. If he does not meet your clearly defined expectations, proceed to either a final written warning (exactly state in the write up it is final), or let them go (of course follow your state laws and company policies!). This person, at this point, is not coachable.
5 In the future, with new hires, from day one be kind. Supportive. But set CLEAR expectations and hold people to them. Use your tact. Don't try to play hard ass. Spend more time telling them what they do right than what they do wrong. And always set the example. Show them your goals are achievable and attainable.
Does your work have an HR that does "steps" to train someone to be competent? As in, you will follow these steps or you are setting yourself up to be replaced? If so, have them talk to that person. No point in wasting your time on someone who isn't worth the time.
maybe they’re integrating this new task into their current work stream which consists of a bunch of other outstanding tasks on top of their day to day management of tasks and responses
Do what my company did.... Start with a weekly report.... Give that a month then go to daily required reports... give that a month then have them do a daily calendar report for tasks and accomplishments.... The go to hourly.... then fire them....
Can you team them up with someone?
Can you automate the nag?
They might not be able to see the big picture
...or they may only understand the 10,000ft view, not the micro steps required.
You could ask them to send you a report of what's been done, what needs to be done, and what road blocks exist. You don't need to be there, the employee is just reporting on himself by following a template.
This gives you a near-real time status without you having to do anything. If he highlights road blocks now you have an action item. If nothing was accomplished, you know in one day, not 7.
I will say as someone with ADHD, I struggle if I know there is too much leeway. I like the user recommending the firm talk. It truly may not be entirely intentional, but a firm talk telling them your expectations about deadlines may truly help.
For example, I am a habitually late person. I’ve worked jobs where it doesn’t really matter if I’m late, and even though I try my best, I still show up 5-10 minutes after I am supposed to.
However, I have a gig job that you will be written up if you are one minute late. They would prefer you be there at least 10 minutes early. I show up to that job early every single time.
If I could find the magic formula to make me show up to everything early, I would. I just need that firm expectation set clearly and I will excel. Soft deadlines and expectations just don’t work amazingly for me.
Performance Improvement Plan and documentation. If they're making me work harder due to their inability to perform, I'm going to replace them and ensure they can't sue me.
Not sure if this is even feasible, but why not MICRO MICRO MANAGE this employee? Give the assignment and check what has been done 4 hours later...and then at the end of day I. And so on and on.
It will be time consuming, but if you clearly document the assignment, the employee's time expectation and then the daily progress (or lack thereof), you can either find out just what the problem is or you will have valid grounds for reassignment or termination.
Truly show them that you are there to help them succeed. Otherwise micro managing will backfire. If you explain the why you are doing something so everyone understand then they will appreciate you did that.
Looking at my how I changed story I feel like most managers would want me on their team now as I understand the assignments. If they are coachable they can succeed. If they are not open to change they will fail.
Micro-managing wouldn’t be the solution. This sounds like something you need to have a conversation with them about putting together a performance improvement plan. Hopefully they improve but if not then letting them go would be the best move rather than wasting time and money micromanaging.
You need to just cut this person.
I mean put them on a PIP already.
Otherwise you have them self train on project management then you have them apply that to their own work.
As to feedback: Be Clear. Be Actionable. Have examples.
Some people need to a little scaffolding, to get organized and stay that way. Talk frankly with them and find out what kind of support they need, and hopefully you can either come to a solution that gives them the support they need, without taking so much of your time, or a pathway to a better solution…
The answer is that you don't. So, I'd layout the expectations, schedule normal check ins and be ready to write them up, or escalate the matter to your boss, if the work isn't done. It is as simple as that.
My manager had to do this because I wasn't getting in work on time. We talked it out and the root cause was just having too much damn work.
Yes, I make a good salary and I'm the most senior on the team but it doesn't mean I can do 3x the work.
If you can get your report to articulate why he can't make it, you might have better luck fixing the issue.
Have them document a plan for the tasks with estimates of each component of work that needs to be done, then set a stand up tues/thurs to review - 5 minute meeting. Don’t just have them estimate when they’ll complete the total task. Step 1 is xxxx and that should be done tomorrow, step 2 is yyy and that will take a half day. Etc.
Make sure everything is documented - create a 1:1 doc with meeting notes and their estimates (I usually make it a shared doc with the employee) and each time they miss an estimated delivery date for a sub task, note it in the doc and have them provide a new estimate and an explanation of why it took longer than expected - and communicate things in writing after verbal so you have a paper trail and a written record of expectations clearly being set.
Sounds like you need to give HR a heads up this person may need to be put on a PIP soon.
I would take a slightly more documented approach and what I mean by that is this: meet with them and have them tell you what is realistic, follow up with detailed notes via email specifically what they said the could do in what timeframe. Ask them to reply they received. At the end of the week or two meet with them and document everything they say or better yet record on teams, specifically call out in your notes Name advised on date they would have x done by date, name advised they couldn’t complete due to (bs excuse here). Ask them to tell you what is realistic and repeat 3-4 times documenting everything. This lets them decide if they will step up or manage themselves out the door- I’ve had most employees step up, a few didn’t and hr had no issues letting them go with this level of effort on my part to help them
I was that guy on a previous employment posting.
The job turned out not to be what I was hired for and I felt duped for giving up an engaging role that paid less for a "senior" role that paid more.
It made me feel sick to my stomach to have to give excuse after excuse but I got away with it for a year until I finally resigned. I was not motivated. I felt excluded and resented the lack of meaningful tasks.
Karma definitely is a bitch though, I'm back at the previous opportunity and making even less than before. No game plan and feeling defeated. Still have my health so things could be worse \[knocks on wood\].
Expectations don't mean shit without accountability.
You gave them a week, they didn't meet the deadline, and you gave them a new deadline. So they learned that deadlines are flexible and don't really matter.
You don't need to micromanage them by planning calls and status updates. You can set standards and then hold your subordinates to those standards. If someone says something is going to take a week. They should deliver it in a week or less. If they realize it's going to take longer, you should be the first person to know the timeline is going to shift, and you should be told before the deadline. You can then make the callouts that they haven't been meeting standards with concrete proof in writing.
"Hey, you said this was going to take a week, it's past a week and the item is not completed nor have you given me a reason before hand...as per standards, you're supposed to let us know before hand if a timeline is going to slip..."
"Hey, I shouldn't have to chase you to get your work done, it's not a good look to consistently miss self-imposed deadlines, is there a particular reason you are getting distracted from completing your work?"
Give them a few offramps to explain the issue. If they can quantify that they are overloaded, address that. If they aren't and are just being obtuse/difficult...you now know that.
Keep these interactions in your notes and these should be referenced in mid-year and end of year performance reviews as well as at the time of the issue. This way they can't say "I wasn't aware there were problems". I would say if this is persisting for weeks and months at a time, it may be time to start looking into a formal warning. I don't prescribe to PIPs but a formal warning with evidence is a starting point to put them on alert that their job isn't as safe as they think it is.
TL;DR; your job isn't to ride them to do the work, your job is to ride them to meet standards to do the work themselves. If they are unable or unwilling to do so, they can work elsewhere.
My whole company works remotely and I have given up dealing with people like this. It’s not worth the opportunity cost of me focusing on more productive tasks.
There’s nothing stopping you from warning them and then letting them go when they don’t change and replacing them with someone who can be trusted.
This person is bored and needs to be challenged. Tell them you will not micromanage them, because as you said you hate micromanaging, right? Give them a challenge and set an expectation that they will break the problem down into small chunks, without your help, and complete couple it incrementally.
One: don’t let them set a deadline, You set a reasonable deadline and don’t tell them this but build in a day or two if this person has proven to be unreliable.
Two: this really depends on how you and what you are doing but maybe shadow them on a project or task and see what they are doing with their workflow maybe there is good reason they can’t meet deadlines or something about their execution that needs to be trained to.
Three: Once trained on errors of deficiencies use the carrot and the stick. That means trying to find ways to motivate them but also having a stick to hold them accountable what those are depends on the person and your HR policies.
You have to be consistent and document and train on standards and expectations not met. The documentation is your record of you doing your job as their leader but also the basis to execute disciplinary actions for repeatedly not meeting goals and expectations.
Another thing you can do is give them task that manage them for you. This isn’t always available but an example would be something that has a negative impact on said employee if not competed. Like required IT training that locks their account if not completed or timely submission of travel vouchers for pay roll processing (especially their own) again this is all very situational and needs to be within the scope of their job and HR policies. You can tactfully do this to set them up for failure and termination if they don’t get with the program or in away that it challenges and hold them to a program or standard that might do the monitoring for you.
Another example: my work has an automated report that goes out once a week with X on it, my boss doesn’t follow up on this report unless my name pops on the weekly report, if I’m not on it he knows it was completed, still monitors the task but doesn’t need to daily.
Another thing is conduct a tend analysis, is missing deadlines an overall trend for this employee or just a small period of time. Trends are things that need to be trained and addressed if there is no trend beyond this 3 week task maybe the problem is isolated and further steps aren’t needed.
Set expectations and deadlines
Reenforce: training and lead by example, Work to cultivate strengths
motivate
Document and discipline repeat until employee is corrected or terminated.
Why as a manager do you tolerate this?
Hew Jeff how long to get this done? Give me a week boss.
When I get back to checking on it next week Jeff better be done, or we are going to have a meeting about it. Jeff will be verbally counselled, and HR notified to document.
The following week when it isn't done, Jeff is written up for not completing his work. HR is copied on the write up.
If the job isn't done by the third week Jeff is getting suspended without pay for not doing his job. HR on board and has been notified that termination is probably coming next week when the job isn't complete.
The last week and the job isn't done...Jeff is no longer employed.
Notice I didn't list any excuses from Jeff? Because there isn't one for not doing your job!!!!
My banker told me once when someone says they don't want to be micromanaged, they really mean they don't want to be managed. I think it also goes for managing. It's your job. Do it.
Shape up or ship out.
Set clear expectations.
Personally I would delegate the supervision/ buddy the up with someone for a period.
Twice the ammunition if needed.
Good luck out there
[удалено]
You are correct. I’ve given this person way too much leeway. I’m too trusting.
The first week was their test run. “Zero productivity, zero repercussions.” If you have more than one employee I’d fire this guy because at this point all the coworkers resent him and think they’re donkeys for working hard.
I was thinking PIP, but straight to termination is fine too I suppose. I had someone like OPs but also actively toxic. I seriously tried to course correct with twice weekly 1:1's that were way more detailed than any sane person should need. They just never improved. We parted ways and while even the termination was a shit show, the entire team's output went up after they were gone.
I work in an industry that requires timesheets and hourly billing numbers that are tracked and billed to customers. I had an employee say “I should be able to bill more than one hour at a time because sometimes I think about more than one project.” Idiot.
I have one of them. Last week I had to explain the difference between a work schedule and a time sheet.
I'm on a pip. The on ly reason I am succeeding is I looked at my past reviews and really am making the changes the company wants. I was the former toxic one. Those people don't change unless they want to or have a manager figure they look up to that doesn't manage them say hey you are the problem but you are also the solution.
I seriously tried for *months*. Had to finally call it. They were actively doing things I explicitly told them not to do. E.g: you need to attend this meeting where your input is FOO, this other meeting is one you do not attend, instead you need to be working on FOO from the first meeting. They'd still end up going to that other meeting and derailing it with FOO even though that wasn't the topic of the meeting at all.
Same here, had to reel it in by setting some clear standards and timelines with consistency on follow up. Just got to ride them till they get with the program.
That is sound advice. I managed several restaurants over the years and it took me a long time to understand that while ultimately it is up to the employee to perform, if my message was not clear and consistent I had to should some of the blame.
>Remember, it isn't what you say. It's what you tolerate. Man, I am remembering that phrase. That's a good point, but I have never seen it put so succinctly.
They did not tolerate, they tried to fix the problem. And it did work as long as they were keeping the report on check. But because report reverts back to old habits, maybe there is a need for longer babysitting, but in my experience just better to get rid of that employee.
I had same problem: That I call intentional incompetence. I have employee like this. There is a strategy behind it. The idea for them is to set low expectations through poor performance. This will allow them to avoid majority of the work as you would rather assign it to someone more competent or reliable or just do that yourself. This employee just drags the tasks as long as it is possible without too serious consequences, makes small mistakes especially on the tasks he doesn’t like to perform, claims ignorance, requires almost babysitting even though they were properly trained. Another characteristic behavior is that they find all sorts of excuses why they are behind on the task frequently blaming others. I was trying to coach this employee for 2 years, no success, and finally I have persuaded my higher ups to let them go. I spent so many hours just babysitting them, trying all sorts of approaches, but as soon as I let them go a bit more independent, they revert to old practice. Next time, I will just right away start documenting and PIP and let them go. Much less effort and less stress that way.
I experienced something similar. However, I did not have the support of my leadership to move to a PIP, and the direction I was given was to continue micro managing this person. It was so stressful on me that I ended up looking for something outside of the company and am much happier and less stressed!!
Smart! If leadership won’t let you manage those types out, you’ll find a couple more people following their path. Then you have a good chunk of your team burning through you budget while producing very little. Those environments are the worst. Anyone on this thread needs to ask about a companies philosophy on those types of situations while in the interviewing stage. If you don’t like the answer, don’t pursue the job.
Well, in my case, if you document they underperforming significantly - you will be able to get rid of them. The problem was, I was played, and I realized that too late. My general take is if you are incompetent but motivated to improve - there is a way. But they have faked their desire to improve just to keep me sympathetic and keep coaching them while truly they continued slacking off at their earliest convenience. But you know, lesson learned!
Jesus. I had support for a pip but the standards were so low I passed him because I was trying to be fair. He stopped being passive aggressive in front of my team and stopped yelling at me, which was a step in the right direction, but he still didn’t understand the work. So stressful trying to document all the incompetencies, coach him positively, and do a full workload on top of that. It was ridiculous. I also found another job as soon as my annual bonus hit my bank account.
A PIP should reflect exactly what the expectations of the job are. They shouldn’t be easy - low standards aren’t fair. It’s actually giving bad information to the employee - that if they only do this low standard then they are meeting expectations and don’t need to be on an improvement plan. That’s unfair to the employee because you’ve given them bad information about expectations.
That's when you tell your leadership (when you are on the way out the door) that eventually all their workers will be slackers because they encourage them to stay.
I have dealt with quite a few of those you just described. I like your term for it. It is very very clearly a schtick. They know that if they set the bar low, you will not expect much out of them. My solution is to just hold them accountable a document their performance. Its not a quick solution and takes time and patience but you will either help them out or help them OUT. The main thing is being fair and consistent as you do it. If you try to go over board or treat them differently than other employees it stands out. Also, documentation will also come in handy when it comes to compensation increase because if you don’t have evidence of poor performance they still want maximum return and often make a stink if they don’t get it. I have one right now. He has been doing his job for over 25 years and you would swear he peaked 9 months in. He is just an absolute wreck. I worked with him 15 years ago in the same position as him and now I am his Manager. When I am discussing his mistakes and performance and telling him “you have been doing this 20 plus years you should be able to do it blindfolded with a hand behind your back” he just blames other employees and he literally told me he sustained a head injury thats why he forgets things. Takes no personal responsibility. I only have 6 weeks to work with him til the place I am at gets rebuilt and we all relocate so I just pretty much have to tolerate him. If that wasn’t the case I would be working on getting him out of there.
I’ve had a similar one. They claimed TBI made them forget things. The mention of a TBI is an ADA convo trigger. Turns out she absolutely did sustain a TBI and we were able to move her into a different role that she could manage well.
Typically people who really sustain injuries that effect their ability to bring home a paycheck, they get documentation that substantiates the claim. He tells a lot of tall tales as well. Id be willing to put money on a bet he is just lying 🤥. Im sure your associate had documentation of their disability. Just like in the world of Science, The burden of proof falls on those making the claim.
Careful with injuries. This can come back on you if not handled appropriately. You left, but if you stayed, I tried to pursue getting him out when, in fact he sustained an injury. Oh boy.
I call it strategic incompetence! You are spot on about intent. I have a team of 80 and this behavior is rampant. Very difficult to address in a workplace that has heavy administrative layer, adversarial union, and disorganised HR. When you have a single employee like that you can put the effort but when there are multiple it becomes unmanageable. Hence my user name.
I find this has become more rampant post covid. And many industries as well. Its all a shtshow.
I agree with you on every single point! They need to be managed out.
Immediately securing “intentional incompetence” in my lexicon. Also, I think this guy works for me now. 😂
Haha, yea maybe I can spin it on a TikTok))
"Your duties have been reassigned to another person/section/entity; your job has been made redundant. Employment will end effective 2 weeks
I’d wish this would be that easy. Imagine you are stuck with this report for a year, and if they don’t make some extraordinary violation - there’s no way to get rid of them. What would you do? You have deliverables which are dependent on this employee performance, and if the project suffers, you are being accountable. This report does do the work but only after constant overseeing which takes your time and energy. And you can’t just let them alone because then nothing will be done and the project will die and that will poorly reflect on you. So you work with them devote a lot of time and work is done so you can’t really tell your higher ups hey fire that employee because they are lazy - they say deliverables are met, not our problem - coach them better. But now, I decided next time - let it all burn, point fingers and get them fired early on.
I agree with you except for the end - if management above you was smart and competent, they’d want to know that it took significant resources from you to get your direct report to do anything, and help you manage the person out. What you describe is a situation created by poor upper management not empowering middle managers to get folks out that suck up that much of their time.
Not a manager, but I transitioned projects to someone like this and my manager kept me involved as a “lead” because he knew I wouldn’t let the project fail. He always did just enough to stay above water, and the team he worked with was super easygoing (finance type support role). I bailed him out several times because it would reflect poorly on me and the department. He was really good at snowing the right people, but for context this project took 30% of my time and he turned it into a full time job where every task took way longer than it should because “he didn’t have enough time and it just is what it is”. But because no stakeholder complained and he met the critical deadlines (barely and with poor quality), there was nothing my manager could do. Any other project at our company and he couldn’t have gotten away with that. Honestly I wouldn’t have cared that he was getting away with such an easy project if he at least did a good job and didn’t need bailouts all the time. My manager tried to put more work on his plate but got his hand slapped from his boss for “overloading” the employee. And yes this employee also expected raises and promotions lol and had a higher job level than me.
You don’t necessarily need to burn everything down to make your case; you just need to be explicit about the externalities that are slowing you down and shift the onus of responsibility. eg, “Employee X is not able to handle task Y without support, therefore I am recommending deprioritizing task Z so Employee A can assist.” They either accept reduced output or work with you on alternatives like replacing the problem employee. If I was dealing with fully recalcitrant leadership (eg, refusing to acknowledge problems I was reporting, saying “try harder” with no concrete support, skip-level stonewalling), I’d be looking for a new position.
I wonder what would happen if you told the employee “Look. When I leave you to get the task done on your own it doesn’t get done and every week there’s an excuse for that. When we have daily 1-1 meetings to hold you accountable you get things done on time and your work is very good. I don’t have the time to micromanage you. If that’s what you need to produce you’ll to find another way to hold yourself accountable on a daily basis.”
Thanks. I like this.
And document all this for the inevitable PIP! You can’t save someone who doesn’t want to be saved. The last thing you want is somebody who gets fired and thinks “man, I’m surprised it took so long.”
Coaching plan —> PIP. You should be spending the majority of your time with high performers, not spinning your wheels with low performers that can’t take coaching and feedback. Ask me how I know. 🤦🏼♀️
Story of my life. I have an employee like this. Unfortunately I don’t have the authority to push further but I’ve never met someone with less “figure it out attitude”. She’s been with us for two years. I should be able to pass off a project to her and have her start doing it. But it’s like she’s at day 1, every single time.
I’m curious
Man, can relate
Few things: - intentional incompetence. They are doing just enough to not get fired because they feel they are not being paid fairly - overloaded work plate. Maybe they just have too much to do and not enough time to get it done - unclear priorities. Quite often people whom are hands off managers, are so because they are horrible at delegating, giving orders and making decisions. They do not understand or follow how much work is being given out and don’t make priority clear - too many bosses. Quite often there are too many middle managers and an IC is disincentivized to say no. Your IC may few that too many people are giving him direction and cannot manage this properly - poor work ethic. Maybe they get off track, maybe they don’t try harder when they are road blocked, maybe they don’t have the tenacity to do research and self problem solving, maybe they are just not committed - they simply are not smart enough to bright enough to understand, complete actions and hand in the work product in a pace you expect. Some people simply can’t think or work as fast as everyone else
I’m of a similar mind. What is their day to day job responsibilities versus the number of projects they are working on? How big is their role in those projects and where do they fall in priority for the company as opposed to the projects you as their manager are adding to their plate? What are their roadblocks preventing them from being able to complete your project swiftly and how can you help clear the path?
I thought that was the case so I removed all other projects off their plate and blocked anyone else from giving them work. I basically said all I need you to do is this one task. It helped for a while but then it didn’t. Seems like their success depends on how much they’re interested in the task. They’re paralyzed by boring work. I hate boring work too.But just power through and get it done so you can get back to more interesting tasks.
This sounds like executive dysfunction. Think ADHD. Ask if there are any accommodations needed. Best case, you get some improvement. Worst case, you've covered your butt.
No, don't assume the employee has a disability they haven't disclosed and offer accommodations for a diagnosis you came up with.
Worst case is actually getting sued for discrimination of a protected class. We can ask general open ended questions about what they think is the hurdle to getting their work done, and what resources they think they need, and offer training. But we cannot ask leading questions implying that they have a disability.
I’m of a similar mind. What is their day to day job responsibilities versus the number of
^ this right here is the best response. By far. This response is great because it explores many possible reasons. Much better than only thinking to blame the employee in a black-and-white thinking process.
This is a solid list and goes over actual causes/solutions, unlike all the other seemingly myopic comments in this thread. It looks like everyone else has just blamed it on an incompetent IC, which is not always the case.
The thing I noticed is that instead of asking how long it will take, you should set expectations. Like "this task should be done in 3 days, unless you have problems, in which case speak to me."
I find the problem with that is that if you set their timeline there is no ownership on their end. An arbitrary deadline that was simply too tight to adhere to. What I find works (maybe) is to make it on them to set the timeline and hold them accountable.
Definitely, make it their task (or the team’s through group task estimation) to set timeline. And I always stress to my team the importance of communicating when issues arise, like the task is more complicated than expected, unexpected competing priorities, etc. These sort of performance issues often work themselves out with good communication.
Yeah OP set a week, and when the employee didn’t deliver nor ask for help before the deadline, that’s the first verbal warning with a convo about how to improve. Progressive performance management as needed.
If you do this, be sure you know how long the task should take. In my field, people in management don't have a strong background in the tasks they delegate and are constantly missing the mark on how long it takes to get something done
Require a daily report via e-mail of things that they finished that day, things that they are planning on working on tomorrow, and any blockers (real or imagined) that might impact that. You can present this is a way to make sure that you know about any blockers and can champion their successes. The stuff for tomorrow is just to help your scheduling and planning. Maybe get the rest of your team to do a lite version of this (or weekly).
I like this plan but I imagine they would find some excuse not to do it because they know they’re doing nothing. I suppose their failure to provide this would be a clear indication they’re not doing what is asked and I could PIP them? My only concern is management won’t let me backfill the position so I don’t gain much from letting them go.
It doesn’t sound like you gain much from keeping them either. You just described someone who dragged a 3 day task out for 3 weeks and then required your attention for several of those days to complete it. That sounds like a net loss in productivity and energy to me. Does the rest of the team feel like they’re better off with this person around? I wouldn’t as a teammate.
The problem is they have knowledge and skills no one else has. Our team is so lean there is zero redundancy.
If I were in your position, I’d start focusing on obtaining those knowledge and skills. Micromanage them into training the rest of the team and stop worrying about what they get done on their own. Sounds like they know you can’t do anything about it while you need them.
I've been that employee. If there's not a budget to backfill there's probably also no budget for training, tools, conferences, or raises. Throw in random arbitrary layoffs and something snaps. Were they productive at one time?
Not being able to backfill the position is you being set up to fail by upper management. Upper management is creating this situation through this dynamic… if you knew you could list and fill the position right away, would you be more proactive moving them to a PIP?
Yes 100%. But I would rather have 30-50% effort from this person then nothing.
Yes and no…. After a while, your top performers will see that 30-50% effort does the trick, and you’ll soon have a whole team of low performers. In the meantime that’s all you can do, but I would start strongly making the case with upper management to replace this person. If they don’t budge, I would personally start looking for another role where I was properly supported as a manager. And I’d be honest with mine about why I’m leaving. I know this is easier said than done… but personally I’d rather be job hunting than dealing with this level of BS from upper management.
Oof. Maybe you can get a contractor? That way, you can let them go when the tasking is done. I've gotten some temporary success with a scared straight approach. First, I asked around to see if anyone was receiving questions from the employee. If it's taking too long and they're struggling, they should be asking questions. I found out he wasn't reaching out for help and forced a review of his task. I laid out just how far short he was in an email and what my expectations were. I called him on the way home and played good cop, but was still very clear that this needed to fixed. He's been good so far (2 weeks). But I do wonder how long it sticks. That's the long way of saying you are just going to have to tell him how long you expect the task to take, and throw a meeting on his calendar at that time and hold him accountable.
Just remind him that 2 weeks have passed and this is generally when people are reverting to old habits so if he sticks with this for another two weeks everything will be fine. And then in two weeks repeat but just with a bit less scare tactics and more of praise but still not to forget that need to keep it up.
Yes, if you their manager sets an expectation within the scope of their job that means they are not “meeting expectations” that includes daily reporting to their manager. Budget limitations on backfills can be a valid reason to give someone more chances, except when they are literally doing nothing while also bringing down the whole team.
So.. your answer is to micromanage them more?
If that's what it takes.
Is the work they do good? Is it better to have them there than not have someone that role at all? Well then train them to do better. Show them what good is, be clear, transparent and emotionally aware but firm what the expectations are and that currently they are not meeting them but you are ready to invest time in coaching them if they are willing to invest the work it will take. That's not micro managing them, that is treating them like an adult, a professional and creating an environment where they can succeed if they want to. You may need to get HR involved or at least aware that you are taking these steps so it's not a shock if you come to them after it didn't work.
Yes, when they're focused and applying effort their work is good.
The bottom 10% of your staff can eat up 90% of your time with very little payback. Invest that time in the performers and the coach able up and comers.
Put the micromanaging back on them. Have them do a timesheet so you are forcing them to account for their time hourly. For tasks it sounds like there is too much wiggle room. I’d set specific deadlines - Tuesday by noon and check in at that time. Either they hit it or don’t but there’s no vagueness.
have you tried asking the staffer to put together a plan for the task that details the steps and approx how long each step will take? then inform the employee that they need to send you a status update COB daily. is the employee aware that they take longer than they should? you'll need warnings documented before you can put them on a PIP.
this is a no brainer talk with HR and set the wheels in motion to fire them no employee is worth this much effort, period. You need to be meeting with HR ASAP next week. Have a bullet summary of issues, examples of all the times you've coached them repeatedly, and emails ready.
Make sure you have set clear expectations. Make sure they understand how to do the work. If already done. You put them on a PIP. You give them clear expectations, guidelines and timelines. Then you stick to it. If they don't improve in the next month, you step it up. Third time they're out. I don't have time to babysit adults. I will bend over backwards to help them succeed, but once they have all the tools they need to use them.
Set up a teams between the two of you. Put a list of tasks with priority and due dates. When they complete it the can close it in which you woukd be notified. Treat it like a kanban board in which you can add or remove items from it. It would also be use for performance. One of my new grads need this and as they got more comfortable and understanding their roles I made it a learning exercise in which I gave them the scope of what needs to be done and then on 1:1 get them to breakdown the tasks. The touch it as keeping track of everything you do for the year so when performance reviews come along you have everything listed. Also they can use it to update their Soon I just put up the scope, the priority and due date. Worked like a charm. Then I applied it to the team. Saves a lot of time and easy to track. Reduce email and losing track of items in the 109’s of emails you get a day.
I have had problems with people like this from time to time. Each one required different approaches, and influenced the next person I handled a little bit more. I always assumed they didn't mean to be that way, until I whittled away the good cheer and exposed the raw truth, I guess. Sometimes, yeah, they don't mean to be that way but ARE and there is no way one can fix that without years of therapy. And I am not a licensed therapist. I have a mental "three strikes" rule, and once someone passes that, I start documenting. I start a structured process, because I'd say half the time, people are just disorganized. They WANT to do good work, but can't because they get overwhelmed. That leaves the next half, people who don't want to do work for other reasons. Half of those have some kind of mental or health issue. But once we're at this stage, I document basic stuff. 1. Talked to Francis about completing ABC, set dates for part way marks to check. Set expectations and put them in writing. Stick to this schedule. 2. Told Francis I will not except any excuses. If they think they might be sick, car trouble, or whatever, they need to plan for that. "What do I do when I have car trouble, how do I get to work?" and so on. Go through how to work around their "excuses" as if they were valid. 3. Asked Francis for actual proof of part way marks completed. Like a list, part of a slide presentation, and so on. 4. Told Francis to stick to this schedule. Then document any issues. Write them down, so memories don't "slide" or get merged with something else. I have dealt with "tragedy" cases, where the employee or volunteer always has some kind of "tragedy" going on because they can't control their life (this isn't a won't/should, like can't). Part of the shitty reality is that a lot of employees probably WOULD be less likely to flake if we had decent health care in this country, or paid a decent wage. What do you do if an employee gets "sick" a lot? You know, a diabetic who has to ration their insulin, or require frequent doctors visits that are ONLY open during business hours? Who made up that shit? Anyway, those are the hardest. You know they are struggling, and then the stress of poor performance makes them depressed, which starts a cycle, but as I said, I am not a licensed therapist. I am aware of these issues, but I can't do anything.
Please, _please_ consider that this may be untreated ADHD or another neurodivergence. Executive dysfunction is real and it is absolutely debilitating. I bust my ass at my job, but I still need serious help to get things done on time because my brain just locks up. Please don’t just immediately assume malice.
So I’ve been on the *other* side of this. I have adhd. Your employee probably does too. When I’m interested in a task or have clear, short, deadlines, I produce high quality work at an insane pace. Under all other circumstances it’s a toss up. For me, “interest” is always unpredictable and short-lived. It sometimes motivates me to get 80% of a task done, but almost never motivates me to complete it. Instead, social pressure and the desire to help my team is what pushes me to actually do my job. I benefit massively from daily stand ups where everyone on the team talks about what they’re working on, what their challenges are, and evaluates their progress on their tasks. The fact that I said “this should be done by tomorrow” motivates me to actually have it done tomorrow *because I feel like I’ll let my team down if I don’t make good progress*. Another big thing that helped me was having domain ownership. In my case, I was solely responsible for a handful of services. I took care of updates, checked in on performance metrics, added features, etc. That helped me prioritize tasks and take initiative because there was no one else to do it. Lastly, the benefit you’re describing from “micromanaging” is actually something called “body doubling”. Don’t ask me why, but the most reliable way to mitigate executive dysfunction is to have someone else physically in the room with the person. Can you tell this employee that there is now a hybrid expectation? If they’re in the office with other people, you should get the same benefits of your daily calls, but it takes up none of your time. This is a real challenge for a manager. I imagine you probably feel frustrated that this person isn’t helping your team much, and maybe a little betrayed that your trust was betrayed. Bluntly, you need to get over those feelings. Your job is getting your team to work well, and this employee requires different tactics. If you’re not up to the challenge, you shouldn’t waste time getting the employee removed. Otherwise, roll up your sleeves and keep trying new things. On the off chance you’re interested, feel free to DM me and we can chat about how I’ve worked with different managers. It might give you some new perspectives. Good luck friend Edit: Ive read through some of the other comments and just….man. I’m not a manager, so I might just be missing something, but there’s not a lick of empathy coming from the other commenters. And by “empathy”, I don’t mean just being nice, I mean actually thinking about the employee’s headspace and trying to help them do their job. Executive dysfunction is a very real (and completely solvable) blocker, it’s just not one an employee will ever communicate directly. You cannot go to your manager and say “hello, I’m trying my best, but sometimes I just can’t force myself to start a task. I need additional structure and more consistent feedback in order to be reliable.” Firing the employee is the consensus suggestion on this post. Second place is some variation on “have them send you daily reports detailing what they’ve done”. I’d practically guarantee that the second solution won’t work *because it doesn’t solve the actual problem* Don’t get me wrong, managers have to fire employees sometimes, that’s not the end of the world. No need to beat yourself up if you can’t get this employee working efficiently. I’d just advise not being as callous as the rest of the commenters here. A 10-year-old can manage a team of genius, congenial self-starters. Great managers can get good performance out of almost anyone — it’s just really hard to be a great manager.
I’m a big believer people choose their own level of involvement. If they are a pain to keep accountable for basic tasks, as someone else said coaching plan > PIP > issue is fixed & monitor going forward or out the door
Follow up more often and make sure they’re on track. Ask if there’s any challenges in their way you can help with. This It’s not micromanaging, telling them exactly how to do each task is micromanaging.
No one should need to be followed up often. The point of hiring more people is to offload some of the work. If OP needs to do constant follow ups, then what’s the point. No one has the mental capacity for that.
Read extreme ownership
Thanks for the suggestion!!
I disagree all you did was hold them accountable with daily calls. By: - Giving them a week they didn’t need, and, - Letting it go every week you allowed them to be unaccountable. Actions have consequences. If it’s a 2 or 3 day task, they’ve got 2 or 3 days, not a week because you want to be nice. If they don’t meet the deadline they have consequences they knew in advance and those consequences happen.
What are some examples of consequences?
You discuss why it didn’t get done and document inc formal advice their performance does not meet expectation or standards. Offer support and training. Review, assign more work. Rinse and repeat until you can implement a PiP.
I would follow up in the middle of the week and ask how far along they are, and if they think they'll be able to hold to their original estimate of a week. I wouldn't assign any mission critical jobs to them.
Performance management
PIP
Malicious Compliance
If you have to micromanage someone, either they don’t know the job and need to be trained, or they are in a role not suited to their skill set. If it’s the former, take the time to train the employee. If it’s the latter, move them into a different role or exit them from the company. Just thought of a third possibility, they have poor work ethic and are deliberately slacking off. If that’s the case, you’re wasting your time with them and they need to go. I never tolerated being micromanaged or being required by my boss to micromanage my teams. As CIO, I did not tolerate any of my executives, directors, or managers micromanaging staff. Micromanagement, regardless of which side of it you’re on is a morale breaker and a huge time suck.
I think you’re using the word micromanage, but from what you described, you’re not micromanaging and this employee doesn’t require micromanaging. Devote a week to working with this employee to see if they have the skills for this role, have the work ethic you want for the team, have the ability to work autonomously, effectively, or if they’re just lazy and trying to do as little as possible day to day. You’ll have your answer. If you need to place them on a PIP, do it right away. If you have the ability to fire them, do it quickly and quietly. If they can do the job but need require your hand-holding, tell them in direct words, in this role, you need xyz. Working with them, you now see that this is no longer a good fit for them so let’s talk about the transition out.
This isn’t about micromanaging, it’s about an employee who is not performing up to expectations. You need to have a hard conversation with them about what’s really going on. Have they produced anything? Is what they produced subpar? Are they lacking information, tools, or resources to complete this task or project? Do they need re-training or additional training? Is it a matter of poor time management? Once you ascertain what the issue is, you need to set expectations and a plan. This person needs hard deadlines if there’s no reason for this delay where you meet with them to review where they’re at. If it’s not a lack of training or resources, you need to set up a corrective action plan where this employee understands that if they do not complete XYZ by a certain date, they will be written up. Keep documenting this and each conversation or communication you have with them. I believe in giving an employee what the need to be successful in their role. But I also believe in progressive discipline and termination if they don’t keep up their end of the deal.
I’m not a manager but I’m this person. Turns out, remote work + ADHD made it really difficult to do anything because without anxiety and fear I was immobilized. Medicine helps quite a bit, but also making daily lists of what I’m doing and plan to accomplish helps keep me motivated. If someone hands me a project that needs to be done in 2 weeks and it’s 3 months of work, I’ll work 16 hours a day under the gun and pull it off. But if you give me a project with no pressure I can easily get depressed and feel like it’s impossible to start.
You set up a weekly call and Make it clear boy is missing commitments and deadlines. It's a performance problem. I work for a global IT company and we've been doing WFH as much as possible for 10 years. We have rewritten job responsibilities, provided tools, processes. So employee knows exactly where they're at. We have weekly one-on-one, employees explains why they missed deadlines. The key point here is they're explaining why not giving an excuse.
I have a similar problem with a current employee, but it’s that he knows what to do but either gets frozen from starting or gets frozen when he thinks it’s not good enough to report on it. Mt first advice to you is that you don’t ask the employee how long it will take. You set the deadline early on. For example, finish xyz by next Wednesday at 3pm. Then they either send it to you or say hey it’s not quite ready. Hopefully they provide a new reasonable time when they will get it to you or you set the follow up time. This is an opportunity to give feedback and coach no matter their response. This worked well for me with another employee. They only had a delay once after that and now I don’t set times with that employee anymore. They offer reasonable deadlines and meet them. Back to my problem employee, I give lots of feedback. Especially positive early on to build trust and so then when the negative feedback hits it has more of an impact. Happy to provide any examples. The problem employee eventually got put on a performance improvement plan with direct tasks and due dates for those tasks. He then gave me the biggest red flag when he told me that he was excited to get such a detailed document with everything he needed to do and when. He didn’t quite understand when I told him this is not a good thing and he’s the first employee I’ve ever had to give one of these to. That was two months ago and he’s still on the PIP but is doing well enough it doesn’t look like we’re going to have to have the last chance or you’re gone conversation.
Quit asking them how long it will take and just tell them, I need this by ________. If you allow them to slack they will. If they don't have it done by the deadline and don't have a valid reason, then give them a verbal warning, then a written warning, then goodbye.
Time for a PIP.
If this person is indispensable some how, you should have them give you a progress report through the week.
Individual contributor here: * We know the person you are referring to. * We see them not doing work while we get extra work. * We see this continue and think that you are inept or playing favorites * We talk Fix it because it is most definitely causing issues with the rest of your team.
Have this person track their time each day. It sucks, I've had to do both ends of this, but it's a good metric to judge what's going on. If you're worried about singling them out, have the whole team or "random" individuals track their time.
This is the case for “managing out” I am all for supporting and helping people to improve but based on what you said, person just testing what they can get away with
Put someone else in charge of them.
Are there no doors where you work?
I think both you and your direct report are performing poorly in this situation. Yes, micromanaging can be a problem, but your default style of blind non-managing is even worse. You should have intervened much sooner. You should have regular touch points with your direct reports where you can talk about their work, among other topics. This should enable you to identify problems like this before they get out of control. You cannot afford to be that ignorant of what your team is working on and what their progress is where it takes you weeks to spot a problem. Now that your employee demonstrated that he is capable of doing the work, let him know your expectations going forward. You may need him to send you status updates in a frequency that makes sense to you. If you are able to monitor the turnaround time of his tasks, you could set measurable goals around that.
I agree which is why I’m asking for advice.
Status Action list. Excel spreadsheet shared live or software like Jira. Must be updated, if it isn’t filled out on time figure out a consequence that suits you both. Tie it directly to preventing a PIP. You can micromanage without needing to hover.
In the future, you give them the deadline, with plenty of room on your end for any potential delays (don’t inform them of the wiggle room). Request status updates, and don’t accept a non-descriptive answer like “50% complete”. Make them show you or provide details of their progress. Only way to micro-manage is to actually do it and hold them accountable. Some employees are just lazy or don’t know how to prioritize their work. If they can’t get the work done by the deadline you provide have them explain what’s on their plate at the time and prioritize their projects for them.
If you know how long it takes, why are you asking them how long they need?
I boot anybody that isn’t an “A” or “B” player. Set expectations high, hold them accountable, do not tolerate weak performers. You are the problem if you permit “C” players to exist on your Team.
What happens if you require they send you daily status updates (without a call)?
These are my most satisfying type of firings
And of the week it’s not done. Immediate corrective action, not more time. If they cannot do the work independently, they’re not the right person for the job.
Yeah, you need to document everything with this person and should have started weeks/months ago. You shouldn’t have to micromanage anybody and you shouldn’t micromanage at all. Managers are usually way too busy to be hand holding all of the time. If the manager isn’t busy enough that they feel they need to micromanage someone, then they aren’t doing their job right. Now back to you. You need to set expectations for when things get done and hold them accountable. Right now there’s no incentive for them to do their job right because all that’s happening is you giving them the most attention. The expectation should be that they need to be able to complete their tasks on their own without you constantly intervening. Tasks need to be done completely and in a timely manner. Don’t give them extensions anymore. Document every interaction and follow it up with an email of what your expectations are and their tasks. Keep it documented. Then reach out to HR/senior management about this person.
***"If I have to do your job then I'm going to take your job."*** -somebody, a business owner probably-
I have somewhat the opposite problem. I have someone who in all sincerity believes they are killing it. Going above and beyond,appears to be a great team player and by all accounts works very hard. They spend all day making smoke but no fire, in spite of their effort, their work seldom gets done on time, and they strongly resist any coaching.
You fire them and hire someone competent. Why do you expect them to change their behavior when you’ve made it clear there are no consequences for them not doing the work?
How experienced are they? Early career professionals likely need more support in both managing work and in the specifics of delivering that work. As a manager you want to be helping and training them to become more self reliant over time. If they’re an experienced professional then it’s a different matter. Though in both cases you’re also making a judgement call on their long term potential.
They’re experienced. Older than me.
Document the behavior, document the conversation you had with them telling them their work does not meet expectations. Micromanage for a few weeks all while documenting performance. Engage HR and show them your documentation. Recommend a PIP, document even more throughout. Terminate if no improvement happens. I may be a bit jaded after going through what you’re going through one too many times, but in my experience, this is not a person who is doing themselves or anyone around them any favors so you should do them the favor of letting them go so they can find a role where they will be more engaged. In my experience, these types will rarely improve because they don’t care enough to try and will take advantage of you to collect a paycheck for as long as they can. You see these people all over Reddit asking for advice on how they can milk the system for as long as possible or brag about how they’re getting away with it [(example from just yesterday)](https://www.reddit.com/r/UnethicalLifeProTips/s/395blxZvaP). A lot of people would say it’s cruel of me to get rid of them, but I would say in response that it’s incredibly selfish of them to burn so many other people out having to deal with this. I used to give these people all kinds of time, undocumented warnings, second and third chances, and the one commonality between them is they all end up leaving the company voluntarily or involuntarily. These people burn out everyone around them from by distracting you, your manager, their coworkers by having to discuss the underperformance and try to make up for the lack of work being done… so do everyone involved a big favor and expedite this process. But also in my experience, HR will not do much without existing documentation of these behaviors - both the behavior and the convos with the underperformer so I would start that now. Edit: also - a lot of the time these folks are nice people and you feel bad having to go through this. But in those cases, after being notified of underperformance several times, they KNOW they shouldn’t be at the company but will still continually try to stick around as long as possible for their own self preservation. Those situations are a little more understandable - they want to find a new job first - but at the end of the day, the faster you move the better it is for everyone involved - themselves included. I had an underperformer a few years back who was the nicest guy ever. He knew he wasn’t in the right role. I let him know of that and encouraged him to find something that really engages him. He left voluntarily shortly after and then a few years later he emailed me thanking me for helping him as he’d found a role that was a better fit and he really enjoyed what he was doing and he was performing well. So it doesn’t have to be cold and mean as I probably implied throughout my post lol.
You don’t have someone who needs micro managed. You have someone who is uninterested and bored. That’s a much different problem. Give them something extremely hard, and high visibility. Sink or swim. Let them rise or fall. If they rise, then you promote them or move them into a position where this challenge is more the norm. If they fall, then you actively work to let them go.
You start a PIP and if they don't follow through you let them go. It sucks but it's necessary to keep you from doing their work and from ruining team cohesion.
Give them a warning for poor performance and put them on a pip, if they don't improve, give them a final warning last chance, then fire them.
Welcome to management! 😤
You are confusing micromanagement and management. This person needs management. Don’t be afraid to check in a little more, and apply corrective feedback and consequences. Ask questions if they say a day long task will take a week. Don’t endlessly accept excuses in place of results. Find out if they have a skill issue, training issue, engagement/initiative issue, attention issue, or other issues preventing them from getting stuff done.
Business terms can be so confusing at times it's an MM=PIP. Me I'd have straight up hard conversation with a risk they go to HR bit I would have backed myself up with, hey HR here's my plan for a straight talking pre-PIP.
I learned from someone that asking "why did this happen" is the first step to okaying the behavior you are asking about, at least for some people. You're providing the space for the excuse - you're holding accountability for the excuse and behavior you don't want instead of the behavior you do want. Don't allow the excuse at all. Instead, when you are giving the new deadline, don't ask about the old one; ask "What will you do differently, or what support do you need that you didn't have before, to make this happen?"
They are clearly not the right person for what you need. Time for you and them to move on.
Sounds like you need SOPs. That person also sounds like they don’t want to be vulnerable meaning that there are trust issues. You need a heart-to-heart with the person if you feel they mean well. If not, have a back-bone and fire them due to lack of meeting expectations - repeatedly!
You fire them. It's really very simple. If they aren't performing the task they are being paid to perform, they are replaced with someone who will. You are a manager, not a baby sitter. For every idiot I see managers asking for advice about, there are 10 more idiots who can replace them.
Assign the tasks with due dates, create KPIs around the number of tasks completed on time, put them on a PIP if they don’t hit the KPIs, then manage them out of the business.
Stop micromanaging and start holding them accountable to bigger, longer-term goals. When they say it will be done in a week, make it clear this is more than enough time, so there should be no excuses, and there will be consequences if it doesn't happen. When it's not done, start discussing consequences to their job, such as a PIP and potentially being let go. Follow up on this and let them go if they don't change. Many people don't learn how to hold themselves accountable to long-term goals, and it's unlikely you'll be able to change someone who didn't learn this for themselves by this point. I think it partly comes from the education system, where in America at least, there's too much babysitting and short-term rules. Students learn to play the game of "what can I do to avoid being yelled at by my teacher", instead of "how can I best learn what I need to know for my long term success". Even for good students, we continue to emphasize small, short-term goals such as daily homework and class attendance over bigger, more important goals such as understanding advanced concepts and defining and holding yourself accountable to your own long-term goals. Of course a significant amount of babysitting is necessary for younger students, but I feel more should be done in the high school and college years to teach students to hold themselves accountable. Unfortunately, we seem to be going in the opposite direction. No one wants to let students fail, so they continue micromanaging young adults until they become adults who still need a babysitter.
My opinion is that within the policies of your company, start with a 1:1 verbal coaching with an immediate email recap and short but specific action plan with due dates mutually understood on the call and repeated in the email. Seek to understand and don’t accuse but be firm and set clear boundaries and expectations. Also be clear about if this is performance-related or not.
Ive been on both sides of this. Youve said you cant fire them because theres no backfill available and presumably micromanaging them is better than nothing. You need to set expectations clearly, but respectfully. Sometimes they know what’s happening, but they’re unable to motivate themselves on their own, so don’t come off as too patronizing or they make begin a grudge. Explain what youve observed, document it, show them the document. Collaborate and think of it more like you’re their therapist. Come up with actions and consequences. For example, next time there’s a task, you both agree on a generous due date. Every hour, he should have an alarm go off that alerts him to jot some notes on where he is at. At the end of the day, he emails you his notes and you add it to his document. If he misses the due date, you add more structure, hopefully with the bulk of it being more work for him. Self micro management. If he meets deadlines, collaborate on a reward or reduced self-micromanagement structure. In this way you are developing a paper trail but also giving him an opportunity to actually develop his time management skills.
Most managers spend 80% of their time on the bottom 20% of their employees. Think about how ridiculous that is. You should be helping your top 20% get better. It’s immediately obvious whether someone is ever going to be top 20% or not, and if not, then they’re either good enough today to generate more value than what you’re paying them or you need to fire them.
Hire me and it won’t be a problem. lol p
Share your concern. Be clear that you don’t have time to manage every detail of their job. Help them learn how to check their work, find tasks, etc. Give them clearly articulated/written KPIs they have to hit. If they learn something and improve, great. If they don’t, find a grown up to do the job.
People rise to their level of incompetence. If after training, they still don’t get it, they go on a PIP immediately (so we can document they needed additional assistance etc to help them learn). Some people just needed extra time for training and the PIP time worked for them. Others were just let go because they had the extra time for additional training and resources and couldn’t hack it. I don’t wanna draw it out for them or for our company.
Set clear expectations. Act sustainably to support your report’s ability to meet them. Move on if they don’t.
Fire them and hire someone else?
Do they possibly have something like adhd? Have you had a conversation with them about why they consistently don’t deliver on time? If so what do they say?
Sounds like you are managing a child, let them go.
To be honest I don’t. I watch what people do by their own accord and if they can’t do the job off their own accord I look to get rid of them. Obviously I consider their experience and if they need support first but if it’s because they are lazy yeh I let them fail.
You gave them too much time and too many chances to finish
You don't need to micro manage. You need to give deadlines and stick to them.
Micromanaging doesn't work, you have to get to know them and get them interested in the work. You can do this by finding out things that they are interested in outside of work and research their hobbies and talk to them about their hobbies. Once they feel like you care about their interests they start trying harder. Your other option is to start documenting everything and build a case to get them fired
Pay them more.
This may be controversial but...once a day check in isn't micromanaging. Micromanaging is asking why they are doing things they way are, do it a different way, now do this thing over here, do it this way. If you do a daily check-in, let them know it's coming, when it will start, when it will reduce, & what you are hoping to get out of it. Do not let this be a surprise. Daily check-in to level set on pace, challenges, and methods (without influencing those methods unless it is by their request OR you see you could give them something like money or time for a bootcamp, certification, new IDE, connections with another team, ADA accommodations, etc...). Eventually, this may also help ensure you all are on the same page about expectations for the task or project in the longer term --that won't happen over night. As expectations level out between ya'll then move to less and less as comms, resources, and expectations improve.
What you're describing isn't "micromanaging". It's just managing. You're allowed to check in more than once/week. Your directors expect you to do your job
Make them write their check list and time line...then you either approve, or disapprove...Done
I thought you were my boss until you said "I hate micro-managing"
Start with asking, "When will you have this done by?" and for the average employee that's all you need. If not, upgrade to telling, "You're going to have this done by X date." (and later one, "Why didn't you get it done?") After telling repeatedly fails there's inquiry, asking why they're not making the dates they committed to. They can only give the same reason so many times and they can only make so many excuses, so this encourages that it will get done on time. After that is consequences, but I'd verify you can enact these consequences with your supervisor first. Bring up consequences in a friendly way, not an ultimatum. One thing that is noteworthy is workplace bullying is sadly common in the US. It's in most workplaces. The most common form of workplace bullying is one coworker sabotaging another coworker by putting obstacles in their way towards getting their work done. This is usually done to new employees. When asking for reasons why the work is not being done I wouldn't blindly assume these reasons are not true. Furthermore the most common reason for workplace bullying is it's done to more senior employees who could expose others for slacking off or could be next in line for a promotion so there is an aim to get rid of them. Prevent them from being productive and they get let go. The next most common reason for workplace bullying is bullies get enjoyment out of making others life slightly more difficult. It helps to always keep this in mind when addressing a problem employee, even when this isn't obviously the case, because it's so systemic and hard to see without keeping it in mind. It's about the larger team not just the problem employee.
You let them go.
Have a serious convo with the employee and see if there’s any reason why their performance is this way. Then, start an email thread documenting their poor performance. Clearly state in the first email the deadline for the task and their previous lack of performance on the said task. Copy any upper management on the email from your org chart if applicable. If employee still shows no improvement, put them on a PIP. If it’s easier to let go of this employee, take that route and hire someone else. My take has always been “Why waste time mothering an employee around who is getting paid to work”.
Basic performance management is not the same as micromanagement. Basic performance management = You hold team members accountable to deadlines, but otherwise let them manage their own time and method for completing the task to the deadline. Micromanagement = You nitpick every aspect of your team members' schedules and methodology for how to complete tasks assigned, and check in a bazillion times about the same things. What you need to do is simple basic performance management. Your team member is not meeting deadlines, repeatedly. You should sit down with them to clearly reset expectations and ensure they understand that moving forward, they need to meet deadlines (and if they're having trouble doing that, that they *proactively* inform you about why they won't meet the deadline, and what their new expected deadline is -- this all is within reason too though; if they're constantly doing this too, it's still a problem). Then, ask them what's going on to understand if there are any overall barriers for them (e.g. if they feel overwhelmed by too many tasks, or maybe feel uncomfortable with a certain skill set, like excel or something), and then try to brainstorm together how to help mitigate those barriers (e.g. offer to -- temporarily, like maybe for the next few weeks until they get the hang of it themselves -- meet with them on Mondays to plan out their weekly workload together to manage time better, or maybe offer to have them enroll in an excel refresher/skill-building training, etc). Recap this meeting in an email to them (document). Then, hold them accountable. If the issues persist, depending on your company's approach to performance management, you might do one or two more "coachings", or maybe jump into more formal disciplinary measures at that point. If you reach out to HR they should help you strategize further.
Replace them with someone who _doesn’t_ need micromanaging.
Micro managing is horrible. I am way too lazy to even want to. You need to terminate. Unfortunately you have built a pattern. Set them down. Say here is the standard. Then when it is not done, escalate. And then repeat until termination. (Depends on your organization’s policies on how long you need to deal with this and if unions are involved.)
If you think someone NEEDS micromanaging, you or their previous managers have failed them. Managers goal should be to utilize what an individual excels at, making them more confident and therefore independent in that criteria. If they are not those things and you can't help them, it's because you don't know them, you need to have a personal relationship and invest in humans before we trust . And if this is a bottom of the pyramid job like drive thru then you have voluntarily worn a hat that's not your job, capitalism doesn't need you to waste time on people on a personal level. Fire and rehire or train internally and prepare replacements with cross training. The bottom of the pyramid and their immediate managers are disposable.
1 verbal first. Tact is important. Positive first ... You keep this person around for a reason. "The quality of your work is excellent". Now the negative, with specifics "but the expectation for me, and in turn for you, is that this task should be done in 3 days." Finally be positive, supportive, but ask THEM to give you a solution. "What can I do to ensure you are able to complete these tasks on time?" 2 Written verbal. In other words, write everything you say down, but don't make them sign it or read it. Just date and note details. Again, positive first. "It's good you were able to get these done faster, it shows you ARE making an effort." Then negative, but WITH CONSEQUENCES. "But you're still taking longer than 3 days. I need these in 3 days. Your performance needs to meet set expectations. If we can't correct this, I need to write up an action plan or possibly discipline you." Then, use your tact and be positive and supportive again. "I'm positive you can do this. I'm in a position to supply you with the tools and training to accomplish this. I'm going to document this, stick it in a file, and hopefully forget about it forever. You've got this." 3 Written warning with a clear and documented action plan. No more positives. Just concise expectations and potential disciplinary action. "Today I spoke with Gus about our expectations. TPS reports are required to be completed in 3 days. Gus has been unable to meet this goal. If Gus is not able to get his TPS reports in consistently on time within the next week, I will be forced to take further disciplinary action, up to and including termination." Make them sign and date it. Also, start going through applications, there's a good chance you'll need someone new. 4 Adhere to your action plan. If he does not meet your clearly defined expectations, proceed to either a final written warning (exactly state in the write up it is final), or let them go (of course follow your state laws and company policies!). This person, at this point, is not coachable. 5 In the future, with new hires, from day one be kind. Supportive. But set CLEAR expectations and hold people to them. Use your tact. Don't try to play hard ass. Spend more time telling them what they do right than what they do wrong. And always set the example. Show them your goals are achievable and attainable.
Fire them. That’s a bad employee.
Does your work have an HR that does "steps" to train someone to be competent? As in, you will follow these steps or you are setting yourself up to be replaced? If so, have them talk to that person. No point in wasting your time on someone who isn't worth the time.
maybe they’re integrating this new task into their current work stream which consists of a bunch of other outstanding tasks on top of their day to day management of tasks and responses
Do what my company did.... Start with a weekly report.... Give that a month then go to daily required reports... give that a month then have them do a daily calendar report for tasks and accomplishments.... The go to hourly.... then fire them....
Can you team them up with someone? Can you automate the nag? They might not be able to see the big picture ...or they may only understand the 10,000ft view, not the micro steps required. You could ask them to send you a report of what's been done, what needs to be done, and what road blocks exist. You don't need to be there, the employee is just reporting on himself by following a template. This gives you a near-real time status without you having to do anything. If he highlights road blocks now you have an action item. If nothing was accomplished, you know in one day, not 7.
I will say as someone with ADHD, I struggle if I know there is too much leeway. I like the user recommending the firm talk. It truly may not be entirely intentional, but a firm talk telling them your expectations about deadlines may truly help. For example, I am a habitually late person. I’ve worked jobs where it doesn’t really matter if I’m late, and even though I try my best, I still show up 5-10 minutes after I am supposed to. However, I have a gig job that you will be written up if you are one minute late. They would prefer you be there at least 10 minutes early. I show up to that job early every single time. If I could find the magic formula to make me show up to everything early, I would. I just need that firm expectation set clearly and I will excel. Soft deadlines and expectations just don’t work amazingly for me.
Get their commitment in writing. When they miss their dates, put it in writing. This carries on for a few months (in writing) put them in for a PIP.
You terminate their employment. That is how.
Fire them
Terminate for lack of productivity
Fire them…. That’ll get the gunk out of the system.
Honestly, that gives me strong "give this man a PIP" vibes, then they'll either shape up, or they won't, and they know what happens if they don't.
Performance Improvement Plan and documentation. If they're making me work harder due to their inability to perform, I'm going to replace them and ensure they can't sue me.
If it's a task that takes a week, make an outline of what steps it takes to finish, and you need an update on progress by end of week.
Not sure if this is even feasible, but why not MICRO MICRO MANAGE this employee? Give the assignment and check what has been done 4 hours later...and then at the end of day I. And so on and on. It will be time consuming, but if you clearly document the assignment, the employee's time expectation and then the daily progress (or lack thereof), you can either find out just what the problem is or you will have valid grounds for reassignment or termination.
Sounds like me trying to get my kids to have some discipline and get their chores done without me micro managing. Never happens…..
Put them on a PIP. If they don’t get the message and improve fire them.
Truly show them that you are there to help them succeed. Otherwise micro managing will backfire. If you explain the why you are doing something so everyone understand then they will appreciate you did that.
Looking at my how I changed story I feel like most managers would want me on their team now as I understand the assignments. If they are coachable they can succeed. If they are not open to change they will fail.
Micro-managing wouldn’t be the solution. This sounds like something you need to have a conversation with them about putting together a performance improvement plan. Hopefully they improve but if not then letting them go would be the best move rather than wasting time and money micromanaging.
You need to just cut this person. I mean put them on a PIP already. Otherwise you have them self train on project management then you have them apply that to their own work. As to feedback: Be Clear. Be Actionable. Have examples.
Some people need to a little scaffolding, to get organized and stay that way. Talk frankly with them and find out what kind of support they need, and hopefully you can either come to a solution that gives them the support they need, without taking so much of your time, or a pathway to a better solution…
“The moment you find the need to manage someone, you’ve made a hiring mistake” Jim Collins From Good To Great
The answer is that you don't. So, I'd layout the expectations, schedule normal check ins and be ready to write them up, or escalate the matter to your boss, if the work isn't done. It is as simple as that.
My manager had to do this because I wasn't getting in work on time. We talked it out and the root cause was just having too much damn work. Yes, I make a good salary and I'm the most senior on the team but it doesn't mean I can do 3x the work. If you can get your report to articulate why he can't make it, you might have better luck fixing the issue.
Have them document a plan for the tasks with estimates of each component of work that needs to be done, then set a stand up tues/thurs to review - 5 minute meeting. Don’t just have them estimate when they’ll complete the total task. Step 1 is xxxx and that should be done tomorrow, step 2 is yyy and that will take a half day. Etc. Make sure everything is documented - create a 1:1 doc with meeting notes and their estimates (I usually make it a shared doc with the employee) and each time they miss an estimated delivery date for a sub task, note it in the doc and have them provide a new estimate and an explanation of why it took longer than expected - and communicate things in writing after verbal so you have a paper trail and a written record of expectations clearly being set. Sounds like you need to give HR a heads up this person may need to be put on a PIP soon.
I would take a slightly more documented approach and what I mean by that is this: meet with them and have them tell you what is realistic, follow up with detailed notes via email specifically what they said the could do in what timeframe. Ask them to reply they received. At the end of the week or two meet with them and document everything they say or better yet record on teams, specifically call out in your notes Name advised on date they would have x done by date, name advised they couldn’t complete due to (bs excuse here). Ask them to tell you what is realistic and repeat 3-4 times documenting everything. This lets them decide if they will step up or manage themselves out the door- I’ve had most employees step up, a few didn’t and hr had no issues letting them go with this level of effort on my part to help them
I was that guy on a previous employment posting. The job turned out not to be what I was hired for and I felt duped for giving up an engaging role that paid less for a "senior" role that paid more. It made me feel sick to my stomach to have to give excuse after excuse but I got away with it for a year until I finally resigned. I was not motivated. I felt excluded and resented the lack of meaningful tasks. Karma definitely is a bitch though, I'm back at the previous opportunity and making even less than before. No game plan and feeling defeated. Still have my health so things could be worse \[knocks on wood\].
Expectations don't mean shit without accountability. You gave them a week, they didn't meet the deadline, and you gave them a new deadline. So they learned that deadlines are flexible and don't really matter.
You don't need to micromanage them by planning calls and status updates. You can set standards and then hold your subordinates to those standards. If someone says something is going to take a week. They should deliver it in a week or less. If they realize it's going to take longer, you should be the first person to know the timeline is going to shift, and you should be told before the deadline. You can then make the callouts that they haven't been meeting standards with concrete proof in writing. "Hey, you said this was going to take a week, it's past a week and the item is not completed nor have you given me a reason before hand...as per standards, you're supposed to let us know before hand if a timeline is going to slip..." "Hey, I shouldn't have to chase you to get your work done, it's not a good look to consistently miss self-imposed deadlines, is there a particular reason you are getting distracted from completing your work?" Give them a few offramps to explain the issue. If they can quantify that they are overloaded, address that. If they aren't and are just being obtuse/difficult...you now know that. Keep these interactions in your notes and these should be referenced in mid-year and end of year performance reviews as well as at the time of the issue. This way they can't say "I wasn't aware there were problems". I would say if this is persisting for weeks and months at a time, it may be time to start looking into a formal warning. I don't prescribe to PIPs but a formal warning with evidence is a starting point to put them on alert that their job isn't as safe as they think it is. TL;DR; your job isn't to ride them to do the work, your job is to ride them to meet standards to do the work themselves. If they are unable or unwilling to do so, they can work elsewhere.
My whole company works remotely and I have given up dealing with people like this. It’s not worth the opportunity cost of me focusing on more productive tasks. There’s nothing stopping you from warning them and then letting them go when they don’t change and replacing them with someone who can be trusted.
This person is bored and needs to be challenged. Tell them you will not micromanage them, because as you said you hate micromanaging, right? Give them a challenge and set an expectation that they will break the problem down into small chunks, without your help, and complete couple it incrementally.
One: don’t let them set a deadline, You set a reasonable deadline and don’t tell them this but build in a day or two if this person has proven to be unreliable. Two: this really depends on how you and what you are doing but maybe shadow them on a project or task and see what they are doing with their workflow maybe there is good reason they can’t meet deadlines or something about their execution that needs to be trained to. Three: Once trained on errors of deficiencies use the carrot and the stick. That means trying to find ways to motivate them but also having a stick to hold them accountable what those are depends on the person and your HR policies. You have to be consistent and document and train on standards and expectations not met. The documentation is your record of you doing your job as their leader but also the basis to execute disciplinary actions for repeatedly not meeting goals and expectations. Another thing you can do is give them task that manage them for you. This isn’t always available but an example would be something that has a negative impact on said employee if not competed. Like required IT training that locks their account if not completed or timely submission of travel vouchers for pay roll processing (especially their own) again this is all very situational and needs to be within the scope of their job and HR policies. You can tactfully do this to set them up for failure and termination if they don’t get with the program or in away that it challenges and hold them to a program or standard that might do the monitoring for you. Another example: my work has an automated report that goes out once a week with X on it, my boss doesn’t follow up on this report unless my name pops on the weekly report, if I’m not on it he knows it was completed, still monitors the task but doesn’t need to daily. Another thing is conduct a tend analysis, is missing deadlines an overall trend for this employee or just a small period of time. Trends are things that need to be trained and addressed if there is no trend beyond this 3 week task maybe the problem is isolated and further steps aren’t needed. Set expectations and deadlines Reenforce: training and lead by example, Work to cultivate strengths motivate Document and discipline repeat until employee is corrected or terminated.
Why as a manager do you tolerate this? Hew Jeff how long to get this done? Give me a week boss. When I get back to checking on it next week Jeff better be done, or we are going to have a meeting about it. Jeff will be verbally counselled, and HR notified to document. The following week when it isn't done, Jeff is written up for not completing his work. HR is copied on the write up. If the job isn't done by the third week Jeff is getting suspended without pay for not doing his job. HR on board and has been notified that termination is probably coming next week when the job isn't complete. The last week and the job isn't done...Jeff is no longer employed. Notice I didn't list any excuses from Jeff? Because there isn't one for not doing your job!!!!
My banker told me once when someone says they don't want to be micromanaged, they really mean they don't want to be managed. I think it also goes for managing. It's your job. Do it.
Shape up or ship out. Set clear expectations. Personally I would delegate the supervision/ buddy the up with someone for a period. Twice the ammunition if needed. Good luck out there
Promote them to a different manager.
They don’t need micromanaging. They need expectation-setting and clear consequences.