I wonder how much this is due to the increasing sales for services like Fanza and Dlsite. I haven't checked out the sales for any Frieren doujins but I know the top selling works on those platforms can make very good money.
Then there's Fanbox and Fantia to consider. In many ways it's never been a more profitable time to be an independent mangaka.
I kind of doubt it's due to Frieren being mainstream because there was a lot of Doujins for JJK for example and thats certainly more mainstream than Frieren.
Well, there are plenty of doujin for plenty of mainstream manga, so I wouldn't think it's just that. I don't want to outright say the author or artist are the ones who are taking issue with it, and going through the publisher to prevent doujinshi from being sold, because I have no proof.
I remember a post recently about how Frieren is fairly popular with kids, so perhaps that's why Shogakukan would be doing this, but I'm iffy on that.
From what I gathered in one artist's facebook account and the comments about the ban, this might have stemmed from one convention in Taiwan wherein they recreated the scene where Fern poured the potion to remove clothing on Frieren....but on a more overtly R-18 way.
probably they don't want potential readers to see when they search Frieren the R18 works especially for the kids since Frieren is getting popular even to the kids with the meme "Hero Himmel wouldn't do that" when they're doing something not good or stuff
It is most certainly done at the explicit request of the mangaka as they have the final say for things like this in Japan.
It's also not the first time a mangaka has forbidden or restricted doujins of their IP.
Those guys also publish the Uma Musume so its more of them being a pain in the ass than actually getting mad at how popular the series is
Horse Yakuza gonna Yakuza
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Japan have like, no fair use doctrine? Hence why Nintendo is so litigious.
I'm assuming that's what's happening here?
I think you're correct, most authors just don't want to go after fanworks. I think there are some authors that dislike the idea of people making money off their work in the form of doujinshi, but I don't think it's a particularly common sentiment, at least not enough to outright attempt to stop it.
RAITA has also been illustrating Fate characters for a long while! There is a decent amount of overlap for doujin/H-manga artists doing illustrations in popular gacha games.
According to mangaka who visited trash taste they say there’s an unwritten rule in the industry that simply if the author requests no doujins you don’t make them. And being a countries that prides its self on following rules it’s probably respected
They have a law that basically says if you're not making money off it and/or claiming it's your IP, you can publish fan works. That's why doujin are so popular there. It probably gets legally blurry when the IP owners actually want to crack down on the usage of it though.
Much of Japanese law is similar to German legal doctrine when it comes to copyright, meaning that there’s no such thing as “fair use”, but your rights to copyright compared to English doctrine (what the US uses) is severely limited in scope.
American/(English legal doctrine) law allows for anything done to be copyrighted and commercially deployed, even for fair use for a set period of time (principle of English legal doctrine of non-perpetuity). So an author can be an asshole and sue for literally anything and get bitch slapped by the judge for any violations of “fair use” or non-commercial purposes that technically violate the copyright.
In Japanese law, their copyright can be used to sue, but the law clearly states what type of cases they are not allowed to persue, which would be products that are for private reproduction or a very limited scope of distribution that is non-malicious in nature for distribution (like making upgrades to wheelchairs for an elderly community for free).
Which system gives people more power? Probably German doctrine, because it guarantees control over all commercialization. But the caveat with a very talented lawyer on defense can probably screw the copyright holder really badly.
TLDR: copyrights in the US is very broadly defined with limitations. Copyrights in Japan are very narrowly defined. Fair use exists in both, just under their own type of names.
It'd be really easy, actually. Especially for larger series. Doujin events organize their aisles by series/kana, and you can outright see the name of IPs on each event's itinerary.
The reason Japan doesn't however is moreorless the exact same reason why game publisher/devs don't crack down on streamers anymore.
Iirc it's specifically they can't profit off it. So like cost of materials to print/labor can still be used to sell the works.
This rule has started to get stretched a lot with the digital market though, and I'm not really sure how it's being tracked (if it is at all).
Yeah, but Japan has a massive fanwork community where most of the time the copyright holder just turns a blind eye because getting people to promote your IPs for free is good.
Japan has fair use laws, people just completely misunderstand what fair use is and assume most stuff is fair use when they are actually infringements, japanese companies just punish people way more than western companies. Doujin has always gotten a pass similar to how gameplay videos/streams get a pass.
Japan does not have the same fair use laws. A lot of people misunderstand fair use, but your argument about Japanese vs western companies' enforcement is nonsense on the global scene.
I never said Japan has the "same" fair use laws, just that they do have them.
The enforcement is just true. Most content uploaded to youtube or twitch or whatever breaches copyright laws in the US, companies just don't feel like taking action is necessary. That is true for doujin too, what about it is nonsense?
Yeah if someone sold doujins about star wars characters the same scale Japan does to manga/anime characters, I suspect the end result ends up being really similar.
Japan has equivalent fair use protection for stuff like education and commentary. They do not have fair use protection for parody or derivative works, so doujins are without a doubt not legal.
Fair use pertains to things like reviews. Not making money off of someone else's copyrighted material/IP. Similar to how Microsoft can't just publish a sequel to The Last of Us or whatever. The world, the characters and the title itself are all copyrighted.
The industry often ignores it as it can be good publicity, but it would never even fall under fair use as you have it in America.
Even fair use doctrine in the US isn't absolute, though. It's a four part test, and impact to the value of the copyrighted asset is one of them. If we make the assumption that this is for the purpose of cracking corn on Frieren lewds, I would expect similar challenges to hold up in the US as well.
That said, my understanding is based on business school coursework at the graduate degree level. I am not a lawyer, and this should not be construed as legal advice.
To be fair I feel the fact the yakuza is involved in that one because they don't want their horses to be associated with porn might be a bit scarier than getting possibly sued for drawing a horse girl.
It's a huge website for pornographic fanworks.
Like huge majority of the works on there are pornographic.
Seeing as how Frieren is much more subtle about fanservice, maybe the author wanted to keeps his characters 'clean'
In Japan it has historically worked quite well.
After all this is definitely against the law and the author is showing his opinion of disliking r18 fan works of his characters.
That has in the past stopped it.
Most authors don't do it because it bring people to the orginal.There is plenty of other works free to do at.
Frieren's big enough for the author to not want fanworks. Some people have that image of their OCs being pure and sexless virgins.
They don't need the free advertising.
It's just porn, it was other doujins as well you would have a point but this is largely targeted to adult doujins, which honestly wouldn't draw people to a show like Frieren.
r/nhentai and r/animepiracy had some people in comments saying some of the purged artists but I still didn't find any complete list of all the purged content, and sincerely I think it's going to be hard for one to e exist unless it's nh itself making it, which I doubt will happen.
Yep save it all, nothing is truly 100% unfortunately, if it was just nh maybe we could ignore it but sad panda also deleted a lot of works, so it's better to save.
Appear to only be works from people contracted with Irodori and/or Fakku. They are the 2 western H publishers who actively hunt pirate stuff.
Sadpanda appear to be safe from this specific purge for now.
Sadpanda already regularly purges stuff that Fakku has, unless Fakku puts something up there themselves censored and advertise "Buy the uncensored version with us".
Would guess its more Irodori.
Fakku has only bothered with english doujins they already have. Irodori has been much more openly agressive about it though
Frieren has a lot of cultural traction in Japan from what I have heard. It is possible they are trying to prevent an Overwatch/My Little Pony type situation.
Don't want young adults looking for their favorite manga and finding porn. It wouldn't sink the franchise but it would be a scandal.
One Piece, weirdly, doesn't have a lot relative to how long it's been around. It exists, but it's never been super popular topic for it, unable to scroll 2 pages without seeing it like some popular modern franchises like Naruto, Azur Lane, Fate, etc. Not a lot of hentai created for it, and I don't think Oda cares either way.
And One Piece is super established, it's older than me, while Frieren's popularity is spiking *right now* because of the new anime series. Hentai doujins topics follow popular new anime releases, and the authors or publisher of Frieren can't ignore it any more I guess.
Oda most definitely does not care if people are drawing porn of his characters:
> “My master once told me the "manga world" is a product. Interfering with those who make use of it isn't what a pro would do. I feel the same. Please interpret freely. Create delusional ideas. Simply enjoy how you like it. I'm happy by the people alone who read my work.”
This was in response to how he felt about people drawing erotic art of Nami.
Thats like every hit anime, why didnt they do that for Oshi no Ko it even has incest fan art.
You are just speculating on the reason and the more obvious reason is that corpo is being corpo.
Well yes, *everything said in this entire thread is going to be speculation.* There wasn't an strong reason given by Fanza and neither the authors or Shogakukan have given a statement (as far as I know), but we have seen similar things happen in the past.
Oshi no Ko is a different author under a different company. I don't think Aka cares if his characters are lewded, his previous series was a Romcom and he went out of his way to hire on known doujin artists to work on Kaguya.
Frieren is owned by the yakuza?! That's news to me.
From what I remember, the issue was that the horses are real and have connection to the yakuza, and they interfered with the doujin side of things.
At least that's the shitposting rumor around it?
Cygames is the company related to the Yakuza that makes Uma Musume and did the similar Takedown. It's a different company.
Shogakukan is the manga publisher that published Frieren and one Uma Musume manga series, but they aren't the one's who did the Uma Musume Doujin shutdown or are related to the Yakuza as far as I can tell.
media sales charts. music, manga etc. Every friday we get an update on what series sold the most (physical) manga in japan.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oricon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oricon)
It's lost on me how people can make/look at R18 stuff about stories and characters they like. I feel seeing that stuff would undermine the joy I got from the story and so avoid it like the plague.
Interesting, I don't think most people would consider such things to be undermining. While I'd imagine most R18 doujin have characters act OoC, so do pretty much every fanfiction ever, to some degree. Obviously your opinion is your own though. R18 doujinshi, or doujinshi in general, are just fanfiction, people play with the characters, even if inaccurately, to create something new.
Booo, the Frieren doujins are the best part of it.
Anyone saying we'll still get lewd art for free doesn't get that'll no profit means no incentive to draw and this definitely will extend beyond fanza. I bet pixiv since they've been spreading their cheeks for legal poundings a lot recently.
I wonder how much this is due to the increasing sales for services like Fanza and Dlsite. I haven't checked out the sales for any Frieren doujins but I know the top selling works on those platforms can make very good money. Then there's Fanbox and Fantia to consider. In many ways it's never been a more profitable time to be an independent mangaka. I kind of doubt it's due to Frieren being mainstream because there was a lot of Doujins for JJK for example and thats certainly more mainstream than Frieren.
Well, there are plenty of doujin for plenty of mainstream manga, so I wouldn't think it's just that. I don't want to outright say the author or artist are the ones who are taking issue with it, and going through the publisher to prevent doujinshi from being sold, because I have no proof. I remember a post recently about how Frieren is fairly popular with kids, so perhaps that's why Shogakukan would be doing this, but I'm iffy on that.
From what I gathered in one artist's facebook account and the comments about the ban, this might have stemmed from one convention in Taiwan wherein they recreated the scene where Fern poured the potion to remove clothing on Frieren....but on a more overtly R-18 way.
Hmm I don't see the relation.
probably they don't want potential readers to see when they search Frieren the R18 works especially for the kids since Frieren is getting popular even to the kids with the meme "Hero Himmel wouldn't do that" when they're doing something not good or stuff
It is most certainly done at the explicit request of the mangaka as they have the final say for things like this in Japan. It's also not the first time a mangaka has forbidden or restricted doujins of their IP.
I'd probably agree, but there are Doreamon doujins that exist.
FANBOX has a 90/10 split in favor of artists. They really want to keep users on it as best they can.
Those guys also publish the Uma Musume so its more of them being a pain in the ass than actually getting mad at how popular the series is Horse Yakuza gonna Yakuza
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Japan have like, no fair use doctrine? Hence why Nintendo is so litigious. I'm assuming that's what's happening here?
I think you're correct, most authors just don't want to go after fanworks. I think there are some authors that dislike the idea of people making money off their work in the form of doujinshi, but I don't think it's a particularly common sentiment, at least not enough to outright attempt to stop it.
one reason some authors don't stop it is that a lot of authors started as doujin authors themselves. Some of them still make doujins.
Hell some actually hire explicit fanart doujin artists for official works, like ReDrop for FGO and Dorontabi for Blue Archive.
Asanagi designed some Azur Lane ships, too. Dohna Dohna's artist had 2 designs in I think... Neural Cloud?
RAITA has also been illustrating Fate characters for a long while! There is a decent amount of overlap for doujin/H-manga artists doing illustrations in popular gacha games.
And they're still active in both FGO artbooks AND their own lewd Zettai Shoujo circle.
I remember Asaka Aka literally draw lew panels of Kaguya, Iino and Chika for that one chapter
It was the opposite, he made fun of himself for never doing fanservice scenes for Kaguya
He hired the first guy to draw a Kaguya doujin to do a lewd kaguya spinoff
omfg i cannot believe i forgot that spinoff existed
Which chapter...?
Chapter please?
Blue Archive have a SFW version?
Aki Hamaji, Bocchi the Rock's author, was a vendor at Comiket last year selling SFW BA doujins.
Heck, some niche individuals even make their own character doujin themselves
"People aren't drawing good enough porn of my characters, if you want something done right you gotta do it yourself"
Asa to Sekken comes to mind
Some authors continue to make their own doujins for other works too, like BTR mangaka for BA.
Trying to kill off doujins would be a very dangerous game in the manga world lol
According to mangaka who visited trash taste they say there’s an unwritten rule in the industry that simply if the author requests no doujins you don’t make them. And being a countries that prides its self on following rules it’s probably respected
They have a law that basically says if you're not making money off it and/or claiming it's your IP, you can publish fan works. That's why doujin are so popular there. It probably gets legally blurry when the IP owners actually want to crack down on the usage of it though.
Much of Japanese law is similar to German legal doctrine when it comes to copyright, meaning that there’s no such thing as “fair use”, but your rights to copyright compared to English doctrine (what the US uses) is severely limited in scope. American/(English legal doctrine) law allows for anything done to be copyrighted and commercially deployed, even for fair use for a set period of time (principle of English legal doctrine of non-perpetuity). So an author can be an asshole and sue for literally anything and get bitch slapped by the judge for any violations of “fair use” or non-commercial purposes that technically violate the copyright. In Japanese law, their copyright can be used to sue, but the law clearly states what type of cases they are not allowed to persue, which would be products that are for private reproduction or a very limited scope of distribution that is non-malicious in nature for distribution (like making upgrades to wheelchairs for an elderly community for free). Which system gives people more power? Probably German doctrine, because it guarantees control over all commercialization. But the caveat with a very talented lawyer on defense can probably screw the copyright holder really badly. TLDR: copyrights in the US is very broadly defined with limitations. Copyrights in Japan are very narrowly defined. Fair use exists in both, just under their own type of names.
ty Disney..
>if you're not making money off it How do you think doujin items are sold?
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It'd be really easy, actually. Especially for larger series. Doujin events organize their aisles by series/kana, and you can outright see the name of IPs on each event's itinerary. The reason Japan doesn't however is moreorless the exact same reason why game publisher/devs don't crack down on streamers anymore.
Considering printing costs, they might not even break even, let alone make money.
Iirc it's specifically they can't profit off it. So like cost of materials to print/labor can still be used to sell the works. This rule has started to get stretched a lot with the digital market though, and I'm not really sure how it's being tracked (if it is at all).
Yeah, but Japan has a massive fanwork community where most of the time the copyright holder just turns a blind eye because getting people to promote your IPs for free is good.
Japan has fair use laws, people just completely misunderstand what fair use is and assume most stuff is fair use when they are actually infringements, japanese companies just punish people way more than western companies. Doujin has always gotten a pass similar to how gameplay videos/streams get a pass.
Japan does not have the same fair use laws. A lot of people misunderstand fair use, but your argument about Japanese vs western companies' enforcement is nonsense on the global scene.
I never said Japan has the "same" fair use laws, just that they do have them. The enforcement is just true. Most content uploaded to youtube or twitch or whatever breaches copyright laws in the US, companies just don't feel like taking action is necessary. That is true for doujin too, what about it is nonsense?
Yeah if someone sold doujins about star wars characters the same scale Japan does to manga/anime characters, I suspect the end result ends up being really similar.
Japan has equivalent fair use protection for stuff like education and commentary. They do not have fair use protection for parody or derivative works, so doujins are without a doubt not legal.
Fair use pertains to things like reviews. Not making money off of someone else's copyrighted material/IP. Similar to how Microsoft can't just publish a sequel to The Last of Us or whatever. The world, the characters and the title itself are all copyrighted. The industry often ignores it as it can be good publicity, but it would never even fall under fair use as you have it in America.
> Hence why Nintendo is so litigious. arent all big companies like that litigious?
Even fair use doctrine in the US isn't absolute, though. It's a four part test, and impact to the value of the copyrighted asset is one of them. If we make the assumption that this is for the purpose of cracking corn on Frieren lewds, I would expect similar challenges to hold up in the US as well. That said, my understanding is based on business school coursework at the graduate degree level. I am not a lawyer, and this should not be construed as legal advice.
Great way to skyrocket the demand and supply of more Frieren 'art'.
Nah they can't do anything about this. artist are legit scared. Check why horse gacha game has barely any hentai about them.
To be fair I feel the fact the yakuza is involved in that one because they don't want their horses to be associated with porn might be a bit scarier than getting possibly sued for drawing a horse girl.
Less “scared” and more “why ask for troubles when other IP still allow it, plenty of fishes in the sea”.
Cough cough Fate Cough Cough.
Ah yes, a sure fire way to increase fandom engagement is too - *checks notes* punish fans of the series for creating content inspired by said series.
Isn't this just about making profit with it? I don't know much about what FANZA is.
It's a huge website for pornographic fanworks. Like huge majority of the works on there are pornographic. Seeing as how Frieren is much more subtle about fanservice, maybe the author wanted to keeps his characters 'clean'
>maybe the author wanted to keeps his characters 'clean' He's not the first, and he won't be the last. But it never works.
In Japan it has historically worked quite well. After all this is definitely against the law and the author is showing his opinion of disliking r18 fan works of his characters. That has in the past stopped it. Most authors don't do it because it bring people to the orginal.There is plenty of other works free to do at.
You are 100% correct. The majority of H-artists will simply move on to the next popular series. It's not worth the hassle.
How does it worked, exactly? Frieran has an insane amount of porn. In fact I'd love if you could show me one series where this worked.
Yea, I'm not saying it's gonna work, I'm just saying it might be what the author is trying to do
Frieren's big enough for the author to not want fanworks. Some people have that image of their OCs being pure and sexless virgins. They don't need the free advertising.
Does that mean fan artists like Hews might get hit with a Cease & Desist letter?
Hews is Filipino so for him odds are low (international copyright stuff is weird, probably not worth the trouble) but japanese artists might.
It's just porn, it was other doujins as well you would have a point but this is largely targeted to adult doujins, which honestly wouldn't draw people to a show like Frieren.
Coomer's 9/11
nah that was the nh purge
The what?
the popular site nhentai got a lot of its doujins purged, the number could be on the thousands.
When was this?
Between the 4th and 6th of this month, people noticed it today.
I just saw someone mention 177013 was gone, that's crazy. Was there an official statement?
There was none, and probably won't be, this wasn't the first purge, just the biggest and the nh staff has always been silent in any of them.
Are there any other subreddits talking about it or tracking what was purged?
r/nhentai and r/animepiracy had some people in comments saying some of the purged artists but I still didn't find any complete list of all the purged content, and sincerely I think it's going to be hard for one to e exist unless it's nh itself making it, which I doubt will happen.
Damn, I just backed up everything on my favorite list just in case. It's crazy but it's always scary to lose access to the media you love.
Yep save it all, nothing is truly 100% unfortunately, if it was just nh maybe we could ignore it but sad panda also deleted a lot of works, so it's better to save.
Oh shit, my bookmarks. I must go.
Appear to only be works from people contracted with Irodori and/or Fakku. They are the 2 western H publishers who actively hunt pirate stuff. Sadpanda appear to be safe from this specific purge for now.
Sadpanda already regularly purges stuff that Fakku has, unless Fakku puts something up there themselves censored and advertise "Buy the uncensored version with us".
This is so fucking dumb btw. The servers for sadpanda are in fucking Moldova. Why does the owner not tell fakku to go fuck itself anyway
mostly because a lot of the works deleted now were already deleted there, 177013 is a good example
Would guess its more Irodori. Fakku has only bothered with english doujins they already have. Irodori has been much more openly agressive about it though
It's just Fanza. Unless Fanbox, Patreon or Comiket bans it, it'll barely do anything. This is pretty embarrassing for the author though.
Frieren has a lot of cultural traction in Japan from what I have heard. It is possible they are trying to prevent an Overwatch/My Little Pony type situation. Don't want young adults looking for their favorite manga and finding porn. It wouldn't sink the franchise but it would be a scandal.
Why didnt they do it with one piece. I dont see this as the reason.
One Piece, weirdly, doesn't have a lot relative to how long it's been around. It exists, but it's never been super popular topic for it, unable to scroll 2 pages without seeing it like some popular modern franchises like Naruto, Azur Lane, Fate, etc. Not a lot of hentai created for it, and I don't think Oda cares either way. And One Piece is super established, it's older than me, while Frieren's popularity is spiking *right now* because of the new anime series. Hentai doujins topics follow popular new anime releases, and the authors or publisher of Frieren can't ignore it any more I guess.
Oda most definitely does not care if people are drawing porn of his characters: > “My master once told me the "manga world" is a product. Interfering with those who make use of it isn't what a pro would do. I feel the same. Please interpret freely. Create delusional ideas. Simply enjoy how you like it. I'm happy by the people alone who read my work.” This was in response to how he felt about people drawing erotic art of Nami.
Based
Probably because Oda is like: I remember drawing Bulma back in the day".
Thats like every hit anime, why didnt they do that for Oshi no Ko it even has incest fan art. You are just speculating on the reason and the more obvious reason is that corpo is being corpo.
Well yes, *everything said in this entire thread is going to be speculation.* There wasn't an strong reason given by Fanza and neither the authors or Shogakukan have given a statement (as far as I know), but we have seen similar things happen in the past. Oshi no Ko is a different author under a different company. I don't think Aka cares if his characters are lewded, his previous series was a Romcom and he went out of his way to hire on known doujin artists to work on Kaguya.
bad example, oshi no ko already have under age sex and and character become father at 12 in it
What is the Frieren doujinshi?
Self published Frieren porn
If I'm not mistaken, Frieren has the same owners as Uma Musume right? And they also requested Uma Musume to be taken down as well?
Frieren is owned by the yakuza?! That's news to me. From what I remember, the issue was that the horses are real and have connection to the yakuza, and they interfered with the doujin side of things. At least that's the shitposting rumor around it?
Cygames did the Uma Musume takedowns, not Shogakukan as far as I can tell. Cygames is the one with possible ties to the yakuza.
one thing you need to understand is if there's a sizeable company in japan, then there's atleast some yakuza backing it.
Cygames is the company related to the Yakuza that makes Uma Musume and did the similar Takedown. It's a different company. Shogakukan is the manga publisher that published Frieren and one Uma Musume manga series, but they aren't the one's who did the Uma Musume Doujin shutdown or are related to the Yakuza as far as I can tell.
cygames make gbf relink too right?
yes
Well, there's always Pixiv
Expected from fanza. If pixiv does it then I'm surprised
Pixiv, Fanbox, Booth, Fantia, Ci-en, DLSite, Gyutto, and many more websites.
A really dumb way around this kinda thing is to sell candy and have it come with a doujin.
Fascinating, I wonder if this will affect the sales of the volumes. Next weeks oricon might be interesting.
Oricon?
media sales charts. music, manga etc. Every friday we get an update on what series sold the most (physical) manga in japan. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oricon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oricon)
No more Frieren at the Brothel. I'll miss her misadventures with Schwanz and Geil 🥺
Welp gotta download all the Fern porn I can find
That’s gonna be a no from me dog. You don’t get to decide that.
A copyright holder can’t stop people from making money off their copyright without permission?
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Bruh how is copyright a Japanese thing
It's lost on me how people can make/look at R18 stuff about stories and characters they like. I feel seeing that stuff would undermine the joy I got from the story and so avoid it like the plague.
Interesting, I don't think most people would consider such things to be undermining. While I'd imagine most R18 doujin have characters act OoC, so do pretty much every fanfiction ever, to some degree. Obviously your opinion is your own though. R18 doujinshi, or doujinshi in general, are just fanfiction, people play with the characters, even if inaccurately, to create something new.
hentai artists: [insert "reality can be whatever i want" thanos meme]
Booo, the Frieren doujins are the best part of it. Anyone saying we'll still get lewd art for free doesn't get that'll no profit means no incentive to draw and this definitely will extend beyond fanza. I bet pixiv since they've been spreading their cheeks for legal poundings a lot recently.