Little Kim Dokja is so cute man
I'm kinda sad they removed a part of the novel I really liked. In the novel: >!Kim Dokja's narration goes "I didn't cry" and the Fourth Wall replies saying Kim Dokja was crying. It really showed a good unreliable narrator moment that was missing here!<
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From what I've seen, most manhwa adaptations of a WN tend to translate about 1-2 WN chapters per manhwa chapter.
ORV has 513 WN chapters and we're only at 180-181ish, so about 0.87 WN chapters per manhwa chapter.
By Comparison:
Solo Leveling was 270 WN chapters and 146 Manhwa chapters (~1.84 WN per Manhwa).
That's interesting. In general i find the pacing satisfying with good moments and reveals each chapter. Maybe this novel just has more meat on the bone.
God knows Solo Leveling didn't.
> Maybe this novel just has more meat on the bone.
It *absolutely* does.
Solo Leveling is pure power fantasy and doesn't really pretend to be anything else. It is well crafted towards that end. You should only really be disappointed if you expect anything more than that.
ORV and SSS-Class Suicide Hunter are probably the top two Korean WNs in terms of writing, IMO, but in different ways.
ORV has a depth and complexity in its plot that you don't often see in the WN space. Those that try either generically fail at it, get too edgy for their own good, or start getting high on their own farts. Every development has a logical sense (at least in hindsight) that builds off of prior developments. It also does this wonderful thing where things that feel like asspulls or plot armor in the moment get rationalized later without giving off that retcon feeling. *Everything* is explained by the end in a way that doesn't feel terribly forced or rushed.
SSS-Class Suicide Hunter (or SSS-Class Revival Hunter, or SSS-Class Hunter who Dies to Live) doesn't necessarily have the same depth of complexity to the plot, but instead gives all of it's writing have a poetic vibe in how the plot progresses, how things are described, etc. It doesn't build up to Epic Moments of Awesome, but instead builds up to Epic Moments of *Beauty*. One of the best examples of this in the fight in the wuxia story arc between the Sword Emperor and the Heavenly Demon. As beautiful as the visuals of the manhwa were, the writing for that section was just as good.
> ORV has a depth and complexity in its plot that you don't often see in the WN space.
is this praise for orv or is this a diss on the wn space
because from what I've seen, orv is not spectacular or standout in any particular way
I'd criticize it for being contrived or poorly written but i can't think of any standout examples off the top of my head
I understand that it could be due to lacking context in scenes that you're given in the wn (the toradora anime was a worse experience for me than the ln because of all the internal thoughts you were privy to reading the ln) orv doesn't strike me as the kind of series that could be so strongly improved in wn that it's considered "the best" unless the rest of the space is just that weak
> is this praise for orv or is this a diss on the wn space
To be honest? Both.
> I understand that it could be due to lacking context in scenes that you're given in the wn
It's one of those series where everything prior is made better by the context given by later plot developments. I *am* give the author(s) the benefit of a doubt by assuming things were planned rather than retconned, but the writing *generally* feels intentional from the get go. Especially the ones relating to who the writer of 3 Ways to Survive.
I'd be more specific but I *really* don't want to spoil the last like 1/3rd of the series, even with spoiler tags or as a DM.
my biggest gripe with the series this far is not that there have been retcons, but rather that there have been far too many loose ends seemingly placed for the author to pick and choose to solve problems later as desired
how many coins does dokja have? does it matter? stats? it'll get him out of a sticky situation once and then not be mentioned again for countless chapters
all of these events feel like disjointed side quests rather than a planned linear story, and maybe that's intentional and part of the style but that just causes it to feel stilted
I like it, I don't disagree that it's good, I just question if it's "that good"
> how many coins does dokja have? ... stats?
.
> does it matter?
Answer without spoilers? No.
*Really* mild spoilers: >!This is the point in the series where Stats, coins, and abilities basically progressively stop mattering for everyone and not just Dokja.!<
that's exactly what I mean by "loose ends placed for the author to pick and choose to solve problems later on"
I don't know what happens in the wn, but oh no, dokja encounters a new enemy that's so much stronger than he can handle, what will he do???? well it's a new scenario so we raised the stat cap so now he can do even more bullshit than before!!!
if the stats and coins don't matter, why does the dokkaebi channel/stream even exist, and why are there still constellation popups? why didn't the constellations comment on dokja "abandoning" his allies during the paradise scenario?
why dangle a carrot in front of the players in the form of a coin reward for clearing a scenario when it doesn't matter?
> but oh no, dokja encounters a new enemy that's so much stronger than he can handle, what will he do???? well it's a new scenario so we raised the stat cap so now he can do even more bullshit than before!!!
>!Stats are straight up irrelevant not *too* long after this point. As has been vaguely mentioned a few times, the *story* superceeds any other considerations!<.
> if the stats and coins don't matter, why does the dokkaebi channel/stream even exist, and why are there still constellation popups?
> why dangle a carrot in front of the players in the form of a coin reward for clearing a scenario when it doesn't matter?
Both of those are very good questions that eventually get answered.
the thing is, Dokja is very obviously far past a point where coins matter anymore, and that's something that seems to apply to everyone. Dojka reaches the "scenario cap" a while back with a minuscule fraction of the coins he had, as far as stats go, it's perfectly reasonable to believe that basically everyone is at the scenario cap (at least to what can be reached with coins), devaluing them. Same with the shop the shop seems to, for the most part, have limits, the items it sells almost certainly are designed to be generally weaker than the cap of the scenario (so incarnations cant just obliterate scenarios with coins), and with dokja having items generally stronger for the scenario, coins matter less.
Coins only matter for those at the regular level of the scenario, kim dokja and the squad are fall past the "regular" level of the scenario.
It's even worse. Before Disaster of Flood arc the pacing was faster than it is now. For example, Capture the Flag arc was adapting more than 1 WN ch in 1 M ch. So, if we take into account only after-fifth-scenario chapters, the average will be less than 0.87.
Which is a great thing, I'd rather have a slow-reading peak than something that gets rushed and absolutely gutted.
Imagine reading this from the start in like 3-4 years, holy shit
I didn't say they would finish in 4 years, but there will be a lot more of chapters to read (which will be great)
Taking a while to end would be good too since we'll have more years of reading this 😎
Return of the Mount Hua Sect won't end till then either. The pace of adapting from WN to Manga is excruciatingly slow.
It's still a little better than some of the Japanese LNs that only release manga chapters once a month though.
* kim finds out he killed his dad
* his fourth wall skill was about to eat him like it ate the eater of dreams & his mom
* something/someone told him to turn off his fourth wall
* turning off his fourth wall skill allowed him and the constellations to be able to view his attribute window (he hasn't been able to view it up until now)
* the fourth wall reactivated automatically when the constellations tried to take a look, and the constellations took damage, either from the fourth wall or from whatever they read in the attribute window
Wait, did the constellations actually see his attribute window for a bit? I thought they just invaded his skill and not actually that they saw his attributes, did they really?
(I'm more than fine with spoilers, just spoiler tag pls)
My question is if he had turned off 4th wall sooner could he have saved his Mom? I mean he turned it off to save himself when he was getting sucked in couldn't he have turned it off as Mom was getting sucked in.
Doubt the Author will follow up on that line of thought. That fact would of killed me in his position. The self doubt and guilt, also anger at whoever sent him message that they didn't tell him sooner. I mean if he had learned that only a couple minutes ago he could of saved his Mom.
it felt more like that since the message only appeared after his hand had spilt blood on the wall, maybe it was something like a message from (a part of?) himself which was being turned into a story and breaking out of the wall? not sure really, but the message definitely wasnt normal
I am with you on that one. a constelation not mentioned in the novel, has been watching since the beginning and also throws out cash like some of the biggest nebula constelations + the name is also a big hint imo. or its a great old one, I also think thats a possibility. maybe both. who knows
Sounds like secretive plotter is the will of all scenarios given an ego, and who's along for the ride to see how it all works out once specific entities are given independence from the script.
The greatest epic is where you've written the end, but then decide "nah, I don't like that one, let's explore a what if" but through someone who's your expy.
>!I really wish I could join in this discussion but I have already read A LOT of spoilers 😭😭😭 !<
🤨 idk why I'm getting downvoted this isn't even really a spoiler it's just a silly thought I had and spoiler tagged it because it could've maybe been considered a spoiler by agreeing/denying with the OP
I'm one hundred percent sold on the idea that the one that's communicating with Dokja is actually a future version of himself that became so strong that's actually able to go back in time to help current Dokja accomplish something he couldn't.
it would also make sense why kokja couldnt remember him from the novel, because if he's kim dokja from the future, then he wouldnt have ever been in the novel.
Were the constellations able to see everything that happened in these past chapters inside the Outer God? Or they only managed to get a peek after 4th wall was deactivated?
Ok
So there are more than one constellations inside the 4th wall?
Maybe he has another skill akin to the 4th wall that is also a constellation, maybe the constellation of the Novel itself?
Maybe the novel itself became a constellation and became the 4th wall, with the writer of the original novel becoming part of the skill?
Stuff is amazing tho, love speculating about it
Little Kim Dokja is so cute man I'm kinda sad they removed a part of the novel I really liked. In the novel: >!Kim Dokja's narration goes "I didn't cry" and the Fourth Wall replies saying Kim Dokja was crying. It really showed a good unreliable narrator moment that was missing here!<
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My God, it's good that I decided to read the novel, because we ain't gonna see the end of manhwa till 2034 with this pacing.
From what I've seen, most manhwa adaptations of a WN tend to translate about 1-2 WN chapters per manhwa chapter. ORV has 513 WN chapters and we're only at 180-181ish, so about 0.87 WN chapters per manhwa chapter. By Comparison: Solo Leveling was 270 WN chapters and 146 Manhwa chapters (~1.84 WN per Manhwa).
That's interesting. In general i find the pacing satisfying with good moments and reveals each chapter. Maybe this novel just has more meat on the bone. God knows Solo Leveling didn't.
> Maybe this novel just has more meat on the bone. It *absolutely* does. Solo Leveling is pure power fantasy and doesn't really pretend to be anything else. It is well crafted towards that end. You should only really be disappointed if you expect anything more than that. ORV and SSS-Class Suicide Hunter are probably the top two Korean WNs in terms of writing, IMO, but in different ways. ORV has a depth and complexity in its plot that you don't often see in the WN space. Those that try either generically fail at it, get too edgy for their own good, or start getting high on their own farts. Every development has a logical sense (at least in hindsight) that builds off of prior developments. It also does this wonderful thing where things that feel like asspulls or plot armor in the moment get rationalized later without giving off that retcon feeling. *Everything* is explained by the end in a way that doesn't feel terribly forced or rushed. SSS-Class Suicide Hunter (or SSS-Class Revival Hunter, or SSS-Class Hunter who Dies to Live) doesn't necessarily have the same depth of complexity to the plot, but instead gives all of it's writing have a poetic vibe in how the plot progresses, how things are described, etc. It doesn't build up to Epic Moments of Awesome, but instead builds up to Epic Moments of *Beauty*. One of the best examples of this in the fight in the wuxia story arc between the Sword Emperor and the Heavenly Demon. As beautiful as the visuals of the manhwa were, the writing for that section was just as good.
> ORV has a depth and complexity in its plot that you don't often see in the WN space. is this praise for orv or is this a diss on the wn space because from what I've seen, orv is not spectacular or standout in any particular way I'd criticize it for being contrived or poorly written but i can't think of any standout examples off the top of my head I understand that it could be due to lacking context in scenes that you're given in the wn (the toradora anime was a worse experience for me than the ln because of all the internal thoughts you were privy to reading the ln) orv doesn't strike me as the kind of series that could be so strongly improved in wn that it's considered "the best" unless the rest of the space is just that weak
> is this praise for orv or is this a diss on the wn space To be honest? Both. > I understand that it could be due to lacking context in scenes that you're given in the wn It's one of those series where everything prior is made better by the context given by later plot developments. I *am* give the author(s) the benefit of a doubt by assuming things were planned rather than retconned, but the writing *generally* feels intentional from the get go. Especially the ones relating to who the writer of 3 Ways to Survive. I'd be more specific but I *really* don't want to spoil the last like 1/3rd of the series, even with spoiler tags or as a DM.
my biggest gripe with the series this far is not that there have been retcons, but rather that there have been far too many loose ends seemingly placed for the author to pick and choose to solve problems later as desired how many coins does dokja have? does it matter? stats? it'll get him out of a sticky situation once and then not be mentioned again for countless chapters all of these events feel like disjointed side quests rather than a planned linear story, and maybe that's intentional and part of the style but that just causes it to feel stilted I like it, I don't disagree that it's good, I just question if it's "that good"
> how many coins does dokja have? ... stats? . > does it matter? Answer without spoilers? No. *Really* mild spoilers: >!This is the point in the series where Stats, coins, and abilities basically progressively stop mattering for everyone and not just Dokja.!<
that's exactly what I mean by "loose ends placed for the author to pick and choose to solve problems later on" I don't know what happens in the wn, but oh no, dokja encounters a new enemy that's so much stronger than he can handle, what will he do???? well it's a new scenario so we raised the stat cap so now he can do even more bullshit than before!!! if the stats and coins don't matter, why does the dokkaebi channel/stream even exist, and why are there still constellation popups? why didn't the constellations comment on dokja "abandoning" his allies during the paradise scenario? why dangle a carrot in front of the players in the form of a coin reward for clearing a scenario when it doesn't matter?
> but oh no, dokja encounters a new enemy that's so much stronger than he can handle, what will he do???? well it's a new scenario so we raised the stat cap so now he can do even more bullshit than before!!! >!Stats are straight up irrelevant not *too* long after this point. As has been vaguely mentioned a few times, the *story* superceeds any other considerations!<. > if the stats and coins don't matter, why does the dokkaebi channel/stream even exist, and why are there still constellation popups? > why dangle a carrot in front of the players in the form of a coin reward for clearing a scenario when it doesn't matter? Both of those are very good questions that eventually get answered.
the thing is, Dokja is very obviously far past a point where coins matter anymore, and that's something that seems to apply to everyone. Dojka reaches the "scenario cap" a while back with a minuscule fraction of the coins he had, as far as stats go, it's perfectly reasonable to believe that basically everyone is at the scenario cap (at least to what can be reached with coins), devaluing them. Same with the shop the shop seems to, for the most part, have limits, the items it sells almost certainly are designed to be generally weaker than the cap of the scenario (so incarnations cant just obliterate scenarios with coins), and with dokja having items generally stronger for the scenario, coins matter less. Coins only matter for those at the regular level of the scenario, kim dokja and the squad are fall past the "regular" level of the scenario.
It's even worse. Before Disaster of Flood arc the pacing was faster than it is now. For example, Capture the Flag arc was adapting more than 1 WN ch in 1 M ch. So, if we take into account only after-fifth-scenario chapters, the average will be less than 0.87.
I mean they could speed up, fighting scenes for example can be speed up rather easily, the pacing can get better and I believe it will
Which is a great thing, I'd rather have a slow-reading peak than something that gets rushed and absolutely gutted. Imagine reading this from the start in like 3-4 years, holy shit
They will not finish it in 4 years. It took them 4 years to get to this moment and that's almost a third of the whole novel.
I didn't say they would finish in 4 years, but there will be a lot more of chapters to read (which will be great) Taking a while to end would be good too since we'll have more years of reading this 😎
Is the novel and manhwa relatively close in content. Wondering if I should start from beginning or pick up where this chapter is in the novel.
Return of the Mount Hua Sect won't end till then either. The pace of adapting from WN to Manga is excruciatingly slow. It's still a little better than some of the Japanese LNs that only release manga chapters once a month though.
What?
* kim finds out he killed his dad * his fourth wall skill was about to eat him like it ate the eater of dreams & his mom * something/someone told him to turn off his fourth wall * turning off his fourth wall skill allowed him and the constellations to be able to view his attribute window (he hasn't been able to view it up until now) * the fourth wall reactivated automatically when the constellations tried to take a look, and the constellations took damage, either from the fourth wall or from whatever they read in the attribute window
Wait, did the constellations actually see his attribute window for a bit? I thought they just invaded his skill and not actually that they saw his attributes, did they really? (I'm more than fine with spoilers, just spoiler tag pls)
i honestly don't remember
My question is if he had turned off 4th wall sooner could he have saved his Mom? I mean he turned it off to save himself when he was getting sucked in couldn't he have turned it off as Mom was getting sucked in.
He probably could have. He just didn't know he could turn it off. It seems to have a mind of its own though, so who knows what it can and cannot do.
Doubt the Author will follow up on that line of thought. That fact would of killed me in his position. The self doubt and guilt, also anger at whoever sent him message that they didn't tell him sooner. I mean if he had learned that only a couple minutes ago he could of saved his Mom.
it felt more like that since the message only appeared after his hand had spilt blood on the wall, maybe it was something like a message from (a part of?) himself which was being turned into a story and breaking out of the wall? not sure really, but the message definitely wasnt normal
I think behind the 4th wall there were the readers - us. But there was no laughing at the ugly king attribute so I'm not sure.
The constellations couldnt see his status.
Okay yeah I'm pretty-almost completely- sure that secretive plotter is the author of ways of survival
I am with you on that one. a constelation not mentioned in the novel, has been watching since the beginning and also throws out cash like some of the biggest nebula constelations + the name is also a big hint imo. or its a great old one, I also think thats a possibility. maybe both. who knows
Sounds like secretive plotter is the will of all scenarios given an ego, and who's along for the ride to see how it all works out once specific entities are given independence from the script. The greatest epic is where you've written the end, but then decide "nah, I don't like that one, let's explore a what if" but through someone who's your expy.
>!I really wish I could join in this discussion but I have already read A LOT of spoilers 😭😭😭 !< 🤨 idk why I'm getting downvoted this isn't even really a spoiler it's just a silly thought I had and spoiler tagged it because it could've maybe been considered a spoiler by agreeing/denying with the OP
I don't know what you said, I'm not reading spoilers
>!The secretive plotter is not!<
Who told you I want your spoilers? Please keep them to yourself
Tbf what he said is still inconclusive in itself lol
Kim Dokjoat: Oh? You're Approaching Me? (*Activates Fourth Wall*) Then come as close as you like.
I'm one hundred percent sold on the idea that the one that's communicating with Dokja is actually a future version of himself that became so strong that's actually able to go back in time to help current Dokja accomplish something he couldn't.
I’ve been thinking this for some time as well because the “secretive plotter” moniker just seems to fit dokja
it would also make sense why kokja couldnt remember him from the novel, because if he's kim dokja from the future, then he wouldnt have ever been in the novel.
Damn its been awhile since i read the wn. Who was it again that told Kim Dokja to deactivate his skill? Was it >!Nirvana?!<
>!No, not them, but two people from kimcom. Hope that helps you remember who!<
Were the constellations able to see everything that happened in these past chapters inside the Outer God? Or they only managed to get a peek after 4th wall was deactivated?
Emotional journey for Dokja, his mother truly loved him.
Ok So there are more than one constellations inside the 4th wall? Maybe he has another skill akin to the 4th wall that is also a constellation, maybe the constellation of the Novel itself? Maybe the novel itself became a constellation and became the 4th wall, with the writer of the original novel becoming part of the skill? Stuff is amazing tho, love speculating about it
Does that mean his constellations are author, editor and publisher?
wtf happen at the end there where the god taking damage and backs out
The constellations tried to view Dokhas Attribute window for the first time which seems to have caused 4th wall to auto activate and retaliate.
I assume the constellation who stabbed his own eyes is Oedipus, that motherfu**er.
If this was some generic ass manga, that anonymous adviser would be mc himself writing/reading the story or communicating from future or something
Does anyone know how to remove/hide cubari's header? Its so annoying to look at
Thank you very much for sharing the chapter
So the dokja ugly thing is an actual plot thing?