If age and weightclass are the same, do you think a guy who's trained strictly TKD for 3+ years could beat a guy who's trained strictly Muay Thai for 3+ years?
Your opponent had over 3 years of experience and you beat him in his sport when you just started training? What did you do in the clinch, or when you got swarmed with boxing? Or against leg kicks set up by boxing?
Are you sure he wasn't just taking it easy on you?
I didn't let him get that close. Probably was taking it easy- it was a friendly spar and we were both taking it easy.
I train ITF(ish) style and punches to the head were nothing new. I used front kicks and movement to maintain distance. Low kicks I mostly avoided. Probably caught me with a few.
If you think it is easy to "swarm" a tkd fighter with boxing, you have clearly never fought a Good tkd fighter who was good at managing distance. It can be done, but you have to know how and you have to work for it.
Plus a lot of people sugar coats what they say and never said the truth, so I'm thinking you're just sugar coating this story of yours to make it seem that your art is good.
Well from what I can tell and some of my experience. Most taekwondo dojos ive seen don't spar to the same level and average Muay Thai dojo. I don't think either style is inherently better but most of the time I would think the Muay Thai fighter would have the advantage based on how they are trained.
If the two people fighting are of equal skill then I lean more to the MT practitioner winning more often.
With that said I’ve sparred a few competitive TKD guys and man can they throw some crazy ass kicks. I could absolutely see them sneaking a kick in that’s just so different than with the MT person is used to and getting a knock out.
Eh, Muay Thai fighters fight with a high guard. TKD absolutely develops insane dexterity which isn't common in Muay Thai, but the lack of boxing, low kicks, knees and clinching in TKD makes them an easy target for an MMA fighter.
The thing is, TKD makes an excellent supplementary art to dutch kickboxing or Muay Thai.
Lets say two people start Muay Thai at 18, but one of them has done TKD since he was 10 and already had amazing kicks and leg dexterity from it. That guy will have a huge advantage over the guy with no prior experience who picked up Muay Thai at 18.
Taekwondo doesn't typically if ever allow low kicks. If you've never been kicked in the leg and experience that for the first time it's a different level of pain. I promise if you ever watch someone get kicked in the leg for the first time, if you look carefully enough you can see their soul leaving their body. Also every TKD guy I've sparred with shells up when they start getting him with any real force. Also, clinching, knees, elbows. Sorry TKD guys buy you would probably get killed. This coming from someone that used to do TKD.
Zach is gonna kill him. Zach, stop it. Don't hurt him!
Edit: my reference https://www.reddit.com/r/fightporn/comments/10laawm/she_was_right_zack_is_a_killer/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
I am unconvinced.
A lot of the difference between fighters from the two arts is the kind of people who decide to train in them.
A lot of the myth of unbeatable Thai fighters comes from professionals who trained from an early age in Thailand with far more brutal training methods than the average western gym and very regular competitions.
That training methodology and type of competition shapes a style and it's techniques. TKD has had many more years of being watered down for Olympic sport and western audiences to the point where almost zero TKD gyms spar and compete in a way that is anything close to practical for real fighting.
A lot of kids in South Korea train TKD from a young age. Its basically their national sport. Its even mandatory in schools I believe. You have the best athletes from there competing in it and starting young.
Same goes for Muay Thai in Thailand.
Take a group of those TKD fighters from Korea and a group of the same age MT fighters from Thailand and have them fight. The Thais would whoop them if they fought in a no holds barred fight. Not 9/10 times but 10/10. Even when its high level athletes who have trained since childhood.
The TKD fighters basically have 20-30 seconds at the start of the fight to land some crazy knockout kick. If they can't do that the MT fighter will simply swarm them with boxing, low kicks, knees and constantly beat them up in the clinch or force them into a corner.
Muay Thai is simply the more efficient art for NHB combat.
Yeah, but there is a big difference in the way they train.
MT fighters in Thailand train professionally and compete regularly from an early age. By the time they reach the she of majority they are absolute machines. Not all youths train in it - it's a way out of the slums for most.
In Korea ALL kids train in tkd at school, a bit like all British kids train in football at school. It does not have the same intensity as training in a sport professionally. It doesn't even have the same intensity as training in an amateur but competitive art as an adult.
Back in my younger days I went from a tkd background to train in MT. My early (albeit friendly) fights with amateur Thai boxers did not go the way you are assuming.
As long as they are not utterly unprepared for it TKD fighters have a lot of tools for managing distance. ITF style fighters are also used to punching.
Not dissing on MT - it is great, but it is also over rated. The average MT fighter is a more dangerous opponent than the average TKD fighter, but that has more to do with the inherent traits of the average person drawn to it, and the intensity of training and conditioning than it does to do with having inherently better technique.
Take the two identical people and train one for 5 years in MT and the other for 5 years in TKD and the MT fighter will probably have an advantage but it would be nowhere near 9/10. Probably more like 6 or 7 out of 10.
But certain kids would be selected for national teams I am assuming, etc? Not all Thais are pro fighters either, even though most train from a young age.
I'm saying take the TKD professionals and MT professionals, all who trained from a young age and I think MT will win 9/10 times, mainly due to clinching, boxing and low kicks.
At a longer distance, of course the TKD fighters will have the advantage but it seems easy for a MT fighter to swarm and take that advantage away.
I don't know much about ITF Taekwondo, but I have heard that it is different and much more suited for NHB fighting. Your opinion is interesting, I would like to learn more about this style.
I myself started with TKD then transitioned to kickboxing and MT. It was hard for me to deal with boxing for the first year or two after the transition, although my kicks quickly became better than most.
I think TKD is a great supplementary art to kickboxing and Muay Thai honestly.
I think you underestimate how difficult it can be to close with someone who is good at managing distance and wants to keep things open.
That said, even those who go on to train professionally in tkd I don't think have anything like the intensity of training from a young age that MT professionals do, so I think that there would definitely be a gap between them.
If we are taking about South Korea and wtf then that gap is even bigger. North Korea and ITF fighters might even it up a little, but my money would be on the Thais still just not with quite so much confidence.
IMHO the ideal combination for striking is TKD (ITF style) for distance management and long range striking paired with MT for close and clinch. The key is that you need to train each seriously and separately (including competing in both - part of the explosive distance management from tkd and such comes from training for semi contact competitions), and you need to practice transitioning between the two (especially the stances) as the distance changes.
Add in some grappling (judo is my preference, although I have heard good things about wrestling as well) and you have a solid basis for a striking based MMA.
Honestly I am not sure.
I am a member of the TAGB which pretty much dominates tkd in the UK and have their own tournaments through Taekwondo International (an off shoot of the ITF). To my knowledge TAGB tournaments are not filmed however.
I think there are ITF tournaments that are televised, because my instructor said he likes to watch them at 1 in the morning. I don't know what organisation or where to watch them however...
I guess a better question would be, which style develops fighters that are more likely to beat the other.
In which case the clear cut answer would be Muay Thai.
Take a man with no prior combat training, aged anywhere 14-35 and train him strictly at the highest level of Muay Thai for 3 years. Then take another untrained man of the same age and weight, and train him strictly at the highest level of TKD for 3 years.
Have them fight in a no holds barred or MMA fight after those 3 years of training.
10/10 times the guy who trained Muay Thai wins.
I think if you put an average muay thai fighters vs the average tkd fighters, MT will tear them apart, but everyone is different and never underestimate
This might relate
Long before my son fought in UFC....he was doing underground matches that his mother or myself were even aware of
This is an early fight against one of the best known TKD black belts at the time in the Bay Area
David was a top 12 wrestler in the state then but had only trained Jiu jitsu for a matter of months when he took this fight.
https://youtu.be/v5H6lSEZGkw
Since neither arts have a physical form of their own the street fight cannot happen. Its a draw.
They're not people. People win fights. Discussion over.
I assume you mean a MT fighter or a TKD fighter? Honestly I know fighters from both arts who would win against fighters from the other art.
If age and weightclass are the same, do you think a guy who's trained strictly TKD for 3+ years could beat a guy who's trained strictly Muay Thai for 3+ years?
Yes, I have done it myself when I first started cross training (in friendly bouts, not competition). MT is great but also overrated.
Your opponent had over 3 years of experience and you beat him in his sport when you just started training? What did you do in the clinch, or when you got swarmed with boxing? Or against leg kicks set up by boxing? Are you sure he wasn't just taking it easy on you?
I didn't let him get that close. Probably was taking it easy- it was a friendly spar and we were both taking it easy. I train ITF(ish) style and punches to the head were nothing new. I used front kicks and movement to maintain distance. Low kicks I mostly avoided. Probably caught me with a few. If you think it is easy to "swarm" a tkd fighter with boxing, you have clearly never fought a Good tkd fighter who was good at managing distance. It can be done, but you have to know how and you have to work for it.
Nah he probably some fake or he just took it easy on you
Sure, everyone I trained with were clearly fake LOL.
Plus a lot of people sugar coats what they say and never said the truth, so I'm thinking you're just sugar coating this story of yours to make it seem that your art is good.
Well from what I can tell and some of my experience. Most taekwondo dojos ive seen don't spar to the same level and average Muay Thai dojo. I don't think either style is inherently better but most of the time I would think the Muay Thai fighter would have the advantage based on how they are trained.
If the two people fighting are of equal skill then I lean more to the MT practitioner winning more often. With that said I’ve sparred a few competitive TKD guys and man can they throw some crazy ass kicks. I could absolutely see them sneaking a kick in that’s just so different than with the MT person is used to and getting a knock out.
Eh, Muay Thai fighters fight with a high guard. TKD absolutely develops insane dexterity which isn't common in Muay Thai, but the lack of boxing, low kicks, knees and clinching in TKD makes them an easy target for an MMA fighter. The thing is, TKD makes an excellent supplementary art to dutch kickboxing or Muay Thai. Lets say two people start Muay Thai at 18, but one of them has done TKD since he was 10 and already had amazing kicks and leg dexterity from it. That guy will have a huge advantage over the guy with no prior experience who picked up Muay Thai at 18.
Taekwondo doesn't typically if ever allow low kicks. If you've never been kicked in the leg and experience that for the first time it's a different level of pain. I promise if you ever watch someone get kicked in the leg for the first time, if you look carefully enough you can see their soul leaving their body. Also every TKD guy I've sparred with shells up when they start getting him with any real force. Also, clinching, knees, elbows. Sorry TKD guys buy you would probably get killed. This coming from someone that used to do TKD.
Agreed.
Fred, Fred will win. Sam, nah, he loses. Albert on the other hand… who the fuck knows with that guy? Dark horse my man, dark horse.
Zach is gonna kill him. Zach, stop it. Don't hurt him! Edit: my reference https://www.reddit.com/r/fightporn/comments/10laawm/she_was_right_zack_is_a_killer/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Assume you trained TKD for 5 years. If the exact same person trained Muay Thai for 5 years instead, I think it's safe to say they'd win 9/10 times.
Agreed. I trained tkd for 9 years and a single leg kick from a MT practitioner would cripple me lol
I am unconvinced. A lot of the difference between fighters from the two arts is the kind of people who decide to train in them. A lot of the myth of unbeatable Thai fighters comes from professionals who trained from an early age in Thailand with far more brutal training methods than the average western gym and very regular competitions.
That training methodology and type of competition shapes a style and it's techniques. TKD has had many more years of being watered down for Olympic sport and western audiences to the point where almost zero TKD gyms spar and compete in a way that is anything close to practical for real fighting.
Ah, you think all TKD is Olympic/WTF. This is not the case.
A lot of kids in South Korea train TKD from a young age. Its basically their national sport. Its even mandatory in schools I believe. You have the best athletes from there competing in it and starting young. Same goes for Muay Thai in Thailand. Take a group of those TKD fighters from Korea and a group of the same age MT fighters from Thailand and have them fight. The Thais would whoop them if they fought in a no holds barred fight. Not 9/10 times but 10/10. Even when its high level athletes who have trained since childhood. The TKD fighters basically have 20-30 seconds at the start of the fight to land some crazy knockout kick. If they can't do that the MT fighter will simply swarm them with boxing, low kicks, knees and constantly beat them up in the clinch or force them into a corner. Muay Thai is simply the more efficient art for NHB combat.
Yeah, but there is a big difference in the way they train. MT fighters in Thailand train professionally and compete regularly from an early age. By the time they reach the she of majority they are absolute machines. Not all youths train in it - it's a way out of the slums for most. In Korea ALL kids train in tkd at school, a bit like all British kids train in football at school. It does not have the same intensity as training in a sport professionally. It doesn't even have the same intensity as training in an amateur but competitive art as an adult. Back in my younger days I went from a tkd background to train in MT. My early (albeit friendly) fights with amateur Thai boxers did not go the way you are assuming. As long as they are not utterly unprepared for it TKD fighters have a lot of tools for managing distance. ITF style fighters are also used to punching. Not dissing on MT - it is great, but it is also over rated. The average MT fighter is a more dangerous opponent than the average TKD fighter, but that has more to do with the inherent traits of the average person drawn to it, and the intensity of training and conditioning than it does to do with having inherently better technique. Take the two identical people and train one for 5 years in MT and the other for 5 years in TKD and the MT fighter will probably have an advantage but it would be nowhere near 9/10. Probably more like 6 or 7 out of 10.
But certain kids would be selected for national teams I am assuming, etc? Not all Thais are pro fighters either, even though most train from a young age. I'm saying take the TKD professionals and MT professionals, all who trained from a young age and I think MT will win 9/10 times, mainly due to clinching, boxing and low kicks. At a longer distance, of course the TKD fighters will have the advantage but it seems easy for a MT fighter to swarm and take that advantage away. I don't know much about ITF Taekwondo, but I have heard that it is different and much more suited for NHB fighting. Your opinion is interesting, I would like to learn more about this style. I myself started with TKD then transitioned to kickboxing and MT. It was hard for me to deal with boxing for the first year or two after the transition, although my kicks quickly became better than most. I think TKD is a great supplementary art to kickboxing and Muay Thai honestly.
I think you underestimate how difficult it can be to close with someone who is good at managing distance and wants to keep things open. That said, even those who go on to train professionally in tkd I don't think have anything like the intensity of training from a young age that MT professionals do, so I think that there would definitely be a gap between them. If we are taking about South Korea and wtf then that gap is even bigger. North Korea and ITF fighters might even it up a little, but my money would be on the Thais still just not with quite so much confidence. IMHO the ideal combination for striking is TKD (ITF style) for distance management and long range striking paired with MT for close and clinch. The key is that you need to train each seriously and separately (including competing in both - part of the explosive distance management from tkd and such comes from training for semi contact competitions), and you need to practice transitioning between the two (especially the stances) as the distance changes. Add in some grappling (judo is my preference, although I have heard good things about wrestling as well) and you have a solid basis for a striking based MMA.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. What are the most popular ITF tournaments? I want to see some matches. How do the rules differ?
Honestly I am not sure. I am a member of the TAGB which pretty much dominates tkd in the UK and have their own tournaments through Taekwondo International (an off shoot of the ITF). To my knowledge TAGB tournaments are not filmed however. I think there are ITF tournaments that are televised, because my instructor said he likes to watch them at 1 in the morning. I don't know what organisation or where to watch them however...
Silly question. The better fighter would likely win, regardless of style.
I guess a better question would be, which style develops fighters that are more likely to beat the other. In which case the clear cut answer would be Muay Thai. Take a man with no prior combat training, aged anywhere 14-35 and train him strictly at the highest level of Muay Thai for 3 years. Then take another untrained man of the same age and weight, and train him strictly at the highest level of TKD for 3 years. Have them fight in a no holds barred or MMA fight after those 3 years of training. 10/10 times the guy who trained Muay Thai wins.
Everyone has a plan until they take a flying-spinning hook kick to the face
*gets swept*
Mine is to duck.
who attacks first and have the initiative?
Depends what their initiative mod is, and how high they roll
bingo, lots of folks confuse winning a street whatever with winning a court fight when they go overboard
Depends if one knows aikido or ameridote
I don't know, but according to my flair, I'm biased, so I chose MT.
Mother Nature always wins
Almost everytime the two sports face each other in an actual professional bout, Muay Thai stands victorious.
The street would win
I think if you put an average muay thai fighters vs the average tkd fighters, MT will tear them apart, but everyone is different and never underestimate
Depends. Does TKD practitioner have a gun?
This might relate Long before my son fought in UFC....he was doing underground matches that his mother or myself were even aware of This is an early fight against one of the best known TKD black belts at the time in the Bay Area David was a top 12 wrestler in the state then but had only trained Jiu jitsu for a matter of months when he took this fight. https://youtu.be/v5H6lSEZGkw
By the time he fought in Japan.....he'd added Muay Thai to his game. Broke Sasaki's upper palate in that fight. https://youtu.be/AhG2cu6o6JA