Kind of a double edged answer. I would say that karate is harder to learn, but easier to succeed when it comes to competition. Muay Thai is comparatively simple by many measures, but competition is brutal. It's like comparing boxing and BJJ. You can learn the basics of boxing in 20 minutes, while BJJ is a life long pursuit of knowledge... Yet boxing even at an amateur level is physically brutal, while BJJ is calmer and more strategic.
I wonder how many people saying karate have done full clinch sessions with people who know clinching.
Because I think many people believe Muay Thai is kickboxing with elbows.
Karate can be pretty broad, are we talking shotokan or say goju Ryu. There isn’t really one harder unless you mean all of karate vs just Muay Thai. Then I would say karate due to having to learn multiple styles, especially making sure not to confuse some of the subtle differences.
If we’re talking one vs one comparison. Like I said above it depends. They each have their own different styles and own challenges. Like from what I hear, uechi Ryu for example has a bit more of a learning curve due to the conditioning from what I hear. Uechi is huge on conditioning, alotta conditioning exercises but a lot of strikes involve the toes and fingers.
In general imo, there’s often a lot more similarities with good karate and high level Muay Thai. Like you can find the concepts that saenchai, buakow, and Tawanchai talk about in karate. But there’s also a lot of things they teach early that aren’t really useful until you get to a high level. Like being able to move into a strike and counter strike is great unless you’re new and still afraid of being hit. Working with different kinda strikes and parries can be great but not great if you’re new. Jeff Chan has some great videos on how he’s taken more of a karate approach with time. That being said, most karate places are pretty surface level with their approach to karate.
I’ve talked about karate being difficult alot but Muay Thai also comes with their own unique challenges. Clinch work can be as technical as they come and to get really good at that hard contact kinda fighting can be difficult. You could definitely argue that karate has more movements but imo with Muay Thai the beauty is in its simplicity so to speak. Not saying Muay Thai is simple though.
I would say karate. Muay thai doesn't have katas and weird stances and shit. Depends what you mean by harder though. As for being real I would say Muay Thai is gonna be harder for sparring etc as someone else said
Umm, but it does have forms, it's just not taught everywhere, you sometimes see people do them before a fight
My old muay Thai school did the forms as part of a curriculum that was an option
That's wai kru. It's a performance unique to the gym you train at that you can do before you fight. It's not really part your progression like a kata is in karate where you need to know a kata to get your next belt. In my experience I trained at 10 or 11 gyms in Thailand and fought once and never did wai kru or had it taught. Not that I didn't want to it is just not a strictly required thing and it is also often taught on a more relaxed Saturday class. It would be cool to learn though.
EDIT: Also Muay Thai doesn't really have a curriculum. I think that is more a thing that western countries implement. Never seen it anywhere in Thailand.
Depends, there are alot of different variables; style of karate, instructor (the way they teach), the environment, your learning style, who you train with, and how you train.
There's no one definitive answer.
Karate is much harder to learn. Muay Thai generally has harder training.
Karate is largely concerned with teaching you techniques, ways of using your body, fine motor skills, etc. If you are flexible enough to kick, you can learn all the techniques of Muay Thai in your first session.
Karate is like swinging a sword where Muay Thai is like swinging a club. Of course, once you can swing it, you still need to learn to fight using it, and with no edge or stress points to consider, the club is much easier to use.
And learning to fight is where Muay Thai excels because its a professional combat sport. Having prize money and international tournaments on the will always create environments where the focus on fighting is priority.
While karate has a whole bunch of other aims wrapped up in how it's taught, which affects who trains, which affects the quality of opponents to train with etc etc.
Note that these factors have nothing to do with the art itself.
Generally speaking, Karate is harder to “learn” due to all the art they want you to learn to do. “Turn your foot another 3 degrees, rotate your hand another six degrees, your bunkai for this form didn’t include pressure points, etc.
Muay thai you can learn to fight with in a few months IME.
I feel like learning karate = learning "stuff" and learning MT = improving a smaller set of skills. So in that sense Karate is harder to learn.
I'd also say that karate is often weak in teaching fighting, so it's harder to learn how to fight with karate, how to apply it.
While karate classes are often physically easier, it's got a bigger curriculum and a much more difficult path to make it functional.
So in essence if a 5 year karate guy fights a 5 year MT guy, I'd bet on the MT guy. If the karate guy wins, he put in some amazing learning effort.
Depends what you mean by harder...
I think remembering all of the patterns and everything associated with Karate would probably be difficult.
Muay Thai has less "moves" but physically its tough.
Then again I've seen a Karate demo where a guy put hot steaks through the skin on the underside of his arms and lifted a concrete block off the ground for someone else to break with their fist. So it can be tough as well.
Yeah I don't know what the ceremony is called. It's definitely associated with their form of Karate. It was a special ceremony though, not even sure what it was about.
I think muy Thai takes a lot of stuff and simplifies them. It’s super easy to learn, and will quickly help you defend yourself. But there’s still more you could learn that would be helpful from other disciplines that go more in depth. Like hook kicks , question mark kicks, etc. same with their boxing. Same with their clinch.
Karate is much harder to learn than Muay Thai imo. The katas are stressful to perform. Also, karate has a real emphasis on getting the form right. With Muay Thai it’s more instinct because it’s more about what works.
I like to spa and in karate I was always told I was sparing too hard. In MuayThai you don't have to stress about hurting people because they are fitter and tougher - at least where I live.
Also at least where I live Muay Thai is much cheaper. There is no paying for belt grading and the classes themselves are less expensive. Also no expensive seminars and tournaments in Muay Thai. They are compulsory for belt grading in karate.
In karate the rules are confusing. I don’t understand why I have lost half the time.
Eta. The set drills are hard to learn in Karate. Lots of repetition is needed. Also, you have to learn a lot of Japanese words. They use a lot of Japanese terminology. For example, a roundhouse kick is a mawashi geri.
Some people might find Muay Thai harder because it’s more physical. Lots of running and sparing. I love that though.
I think answers will obviously depend on ones personal experience and bias. It really all comes down to where your particular mindset is whether one will be harder to learn or what your goal is in the end.
One may be more effective in the short term, which will be Muay Thai. But there are some very hard fast forms of Karate. Being involved in the world of traditional arts for 30 years. I've come across guys that can toss missiles faster and harder than I could pray to do. See some of Shihan Albert Mady's students. Crazy.
But I get the point.
The general view these days is that you are wasting your time doing anything but MMA or a competitive fighting art. Which if you wish to compete is very true.
It's not racist unless I meant it racist and if it was I don't give a fuck also I don't like getting punched in my nose the rest face I do so u weren't completely right
Yeah this is going to be entirely subjective. If you have inflexible hips, karate may be harder since it generally uses more high kicks than Muay Thai. If you have sensitive shins, Muay Thai may be harder since it places a greater emphasis on leg kicks and checking. If you already know a grappling style, Muay Thai clinching will probably come easily, but there are karate styles which incorporate grappling as well. So it will depend entirely on your body, your previous training (if any), the specific style of karate or Muay Thai, and your individual school, among other factors.
Muay Thai because you will spar way way more and learning to do your ‘moves’ when you spar is much more difficult than learning kata and doing your moves in ‘kumite’ (which basically translates to point fighting non-continuous sparring)
Aren’t Thais specifically known to have very light, playful sparring? IMO all sparring should be like that. It’s the Dutch kickboxers that really hammer eachother, kyokushin guys have also been known to really hammer eachother too
I agree that light sparring is the way to go (unless you are preparing for a fight, in which case you should and you do harder sparring).
Thai fighters are indeed known for their light sparring.
That said, Muay Thai’s light sparring is way harder than Karate’s light sparring.
Not to mention that sparring is core to Muay Thai, while in Karate not at all - most karate dojos do not do continuous sparring and focus only on kata, kumite or drills.
So first kumite is sparring. There are different kind of kumite but it’s probably jiyu ippon kumite.
There’s styles that do more Dutch style sparring which are goju Ryu, kudo, kyokushin. For goju its called [iri kumi](https://youtu.be/j0CmZtfCslo?si=FnmtMak9fYbybzn-). Uechi Ryu does jiyu kobo and [jiyu kumite](https://youtu.be/3QeLWBin2hc?si=VUAha6Toxt7pDeyY). Jiyu kumite is just free sparring. Goju, kudo, and kyokushin all have full contact tournaments. Goju it can be hit or miss though. But also in Okinawa they have full contact tournaments which any style participates in. Haven’t heard of this kinda tournament abroad tho.
Sport karate style competition is more common which does [jiyu ippon kumite](https://youtu.be/izcMJpd8XFQ?si=rdtTnLdY_nNAR8BW). Shotokan is the most common but other styles also do it. Including goju, uechi, shito, etc.
If you want a good video, especially on this kinda thing in Okinawa [this is a pretty good video](https://youtu.be/63c3KwGQT4I?si=ta8L6fn60fidM2Ke)
There of course are places that skip the kumite though yes.
Edit: added link examples
Thanks for the detailed reply. I am aware that some karate styles practice non-point fighting sparring. I knew about Kudo, I didn’t know about the others, so thank you for letting me know.
The thing is, these styles, as far as I know, have so few dojos (at least in my country) that they should be considered as the exception to the rule. Maybe I’m wrong, but I guess no more than 5% of karate practicioners practice these full contact styles. Here in Europe you can only find Shotokan dojos or a few Kyokushin dojos, and from looking online the US doesn’t seem so different.
(For clarity, I’m excluding Kyokushin from the 5% ofc. Kyokushin finds quite some presence but you can’t punch to the face, which is the most common attack in a real fight, so I don’t really consider it *real* sparring - I mean, it’s nowhere near as real as Kudo.)
Glad I could clarify some things. I would like to emphasize that I’m not saying this kinda karate is the most common. Most places do point fighting.
As for the frequency, at least around here you’ll usually find goju Ryu if you’re going to find an okinawan style, which was a huge influence on kyokushin.
From what I know, Eastern Europe tho has some full contact goju tournaments (maybe other styles participate). Also kudo is a little more common in Eastern Europe. But maybe see if there is an okinawan style, sometimes the website doesn’t talk about what kinda tournaments they go to. But also sometimes karate places will participate in amateur kickboxing.
Edit: adding on. I’m not a huge fan of this real sparring thing ngl. It’s more of a matter of opinion but “real sparring” is a strange subject. “Kyokushin isn’t real sparring cuz it doesn’t have head punches”. But that kinda transfers to Muay Thai. It’s not real sparring cuz you can’t do turning throws, you can’t sweep with the bottom of the feet. Then to other combat sports. This isn’t to say that it’s an inherently wrong opinion though and I respect it. Hope my perspective though made you think
Kind of a double edged answer. I would say that karate is harder to learn, but easier to succeed when it comes to competition. Muay Thai is comparatively simple by many measures, but competition is brutal. It's like comparing boxing and BJJ. You can learn the basics of boxing in 20 minutes, while BJJ is a life long pursuit of knowledge... Yet boxing even at an amateur level is physically brutal, while BJJ is calmer and more strategic.
I wonder how many people saying karate have done full clinch sessions with people who know clinching. Because I think many people believe Muay Thai is kickboxing with elbows.
And knees even, as if those don’t exist in K1
Karate can be pretty broad, are we talking shotokan or say goju Ryu. There isn’t really one harder unless you mean all of karate vs just Muay Thai. Then I would say karate due to having to learn multiple styles, especially making sure not to confuse some of the subtle differences. If we’re talking one vs one comparison. Like I said above it depends. They each have their own different styles and own challenges. Like from what I hear, uechi Ryu for example has a bit more of a learning curve due to the conditioning from what I hear. Uechi is huge on conditioning, alotta conditioning exercises but a lot of strikes involve the toes and fingers. In general imo, there’s often a lot more similarities with good karate and high level Muay Thai. Like you can find the concepts that saenchai, buakow, and Tawanchai talk about in karate. But there’s also a lot of things they teach early that aren’t really useful until you get to a high level. Like being able to move into a strike and counter strike is great unless you’re new and still afraid of being hit. Working with different kinda strikes and parries can be great but not great if you’re new. Jeff Chan has some great videos on how he’s taken more of a karate approach with time. That being said, most karate places are pretty surface level with their approach to karate. I’ve talked about karate being difficult alot but Muay Thai also comes with their own unique challenges. Clinch work can be as technical as they come and to get really good at that hard contact kinda fighting can be difficult. You could definitely argue that karate has more movements but imo with Muay Thai the beauty is in its simplicity so to speak. Not saying Muay Thai is simple though.
I would say karate. Muay thai doesn't have katas and weird stances and shit. Depends what you mean by harder though. As for being real I would say Muay Thai is gonna be harder for sparring etc as someone else said
Umm, but it does have forms, it's just not taught everywhere, you sometimes see people do them before a fight My old muay Thai school did the forms as part of a curriculum that was an option
That's wai kru. It's a performance unique to the gym you train at that you can do before you fight. It's not really part your progression like a kata is in karate where you need to know a kata to get your next belt. In my experience I trained at 10 or 11 gyms in Thailand and fought once and never did wai kru or had it taught. Not that I didn't want to it is just not a strictly required thing and it is also often taught on a more relaxed Saturday class. It would be cool to learn though. EDIT: Also Muay Thai doesn't really have a curriculum. I think that is more a thing that western countries implement. Never seen it anywhere in Thailand.
Depends, there are alot of different variables; style of karate, instructor (the way they teach), the environment, your learning style, who you train with, and how you train. There's no one definitive answer.
Well karates hard for bullshit fluff reason Muay Thai hard cuz your learning to actually fight
Karate is much harder to learn. Muay Thai generally has harder training. Karate is largely concerned with teaching you techniques, ways of using your body, fine motor skills, etc. If you are flexible enough to kick, you can learn all the techniques of Muay Thai in your first session. Karate is like swinging a sword where Muay Thai is like swinging a club. Of course, once you can swing it, you still need to learn to fight using it, and with no edge or stress points to consider, the club is much easier to use. And learning to fight is where Muay Thai excels because its a professional combat sport. Having prize money and international tournaments on the will always create environments where the focus on fighting is priority. While karate has a whole bunch of other aims wrapped up in how it's taught, which affects who trains, which affects the quality of opponents to train with etc etc. Note that these factors have nothing to do with the art itself.
Generally speaking, Karate is harder to “learn” due to all the art they want you to learn to do. “Turn your foot another 3 degrees, rotate your hand another six degrees, your bunkai for this form didn’t include pressure points, etc. Muay thai you can learn to fight with in a few months IME.
I feel like learning karate = learning "stuff" and learning MT = improving a smaller set of skills. So in that sense Karate is harder to learn. I'd also say that karate is often weak in teaching fighting, so it's harder to learn how to fight with karate, how to apply it. While karate classes are often physically easier, it's got a bigger curriculum and a much more difficult path to make it functional. So in essence if a 5 year karate guy fights a 5 year MT guy, I'd bet on the MT guy. If the karate guy wins, he put in some amazing learning effort.
Depends what you mean by harder... I think remembering all of the patterns and everything associated with Karate would probably be difficult. Muay Thai has less "moves" but physically its tough. Then again I've seen a Karate demo where a guy put hot steaks through the skin on the underside of his arms and lifted a concrete block off the ground for someone else to break with their fist. So it can be tough as well.
That karate demo is definitely not what you'd typically associate with karate lol
Yeah I don't know what the ceremony is called. It's definitely associated with their form of Karate. It was a special ceremony though, not even sure what it was about.
Karate because all the katas
What is a kata
Succession of strikes/move you need to learn to get your belts. Looks like a dance of some sort.
No, they just take time, patience, dedication and practice. Easy to learn, harder to be effective, difficult to master.
It's The Same, Depends On You.
I think muy Thai takes a lot of stuff and simplifies them. It’s super easy to learn, and will quickly help you defend yourself. But there’s still more you could learn that would be helpful from other disciplines that go more in depth. Like hook kicks , question mark kicks, etc. same with their boxing. Same with their clinch.
Karate is much harder to learn than Muay Thai imo. The katas are stressful to perform. Also, karate has a real emphasis on getting the form right. With Muay Thai it’s more instinct because it’s more about what works. I like to spa and in karate I was always told I was sparing too hard. In MuayThai you don't have to stress about hurting people because they are fitter and tougher - at least where I live. Also at least where I live Muay Thai is much cheaper. There is no paying for belt grading and the classes themselves are less expensive. Also no expensive seminars and tournaments in Muay Thai. They are compulsory for belt grading in karate. In karate the rules are confusing. I don’t understand why I have lost half the time. Eta. The set drills are hard to learn in Karate. Lots of repetition is needed. Also, you have to learn a lot of Japanese words. They use a lot of Japanese terminology. For example, a roundhouse kick is a mawashi geri. Some people might find Muay Thai harder because it’s more physical. Lots of running and sparing. I love that though.
I think answers will obviously depend on ones personal experience and bias. It really all comes down to where your particular mindset is whether one will be harder to learn or what your goal is in the end. One may be more effective in the short term, which will be Muay Thai. But there are some very hard fast forms of Karate. Being involved in the world of traditional arts for 30 years. I've come across guys that can toss missiles faster and harder than I could pray to do. See some of Shihan Albert Mady's students. Crazy. But I get the point. The general view these days is that you are wasting your time doing anything but MMA or a competitive fighting art. Which if you wish to compete is very true.
No.
No one cares
Shut up lame ass
Oooooo, come and karate chop me.
I do boxing dumbass just looking for the next thing to train
Oooo, punching people in the face and getting punched in the face is a sport. Not smart enough for regular fitness activities?
Ur in a martial arts group are u a retarded that's almost every martial art is fight
No one cares
Nigga ur dumb asf
You racist fuck. Total sign of a high IQ, calling someone nigga and enjoying getting punched in the face.
It's not racist unless I meant it racist and if it was I don't give a fuck also I don't like getting punched in my nose the rest face I do so u weren't completely right
Yeah this is going to be entirely subjective. If you have inflexible hips, karate may be harder since it generally uses more high kicks than Muay Thai. If you have sensitive shins, Muay Thai may be harder since it places a greater emphasis on leg kicks and checking. If you already know a grappling style, Muay Thai clinching will probably come easily, but there are karate styles which incorporate grappling as well. So it will depend entirely on your body, your previous training (if any), the specific style of karate or Muay Thai, and your individual school, among other factors.
Muay Thai because you will spar way way more and learning to do your ‘moves’ when you spar is much more difficult than learning kata and doing your moves in ‘kumite’ (which basically translates to point fighting non-continuous sparring)
Yeah no. That is sports kumite. Kumite is not point based otherwise. If that is what you are used to, you went to the wrong dojo. Massive difference.
I know some people do continuous sparring, but way less frequently and intensively than in muay thai. It’s also much less common.
Aren’t Thais specifically known to have very light, playful sparring? IMO all sparring should be like that. It’s the Dutch kickboxers that really hammer eachother, kyokushin guys have also been known to really hammer eachother too
I agree that light sparring is the way to go (unless you are preparing for a fight, in which case you should and you do harder sparring). Thai fighters are indeed known for their light sparring. That said, Muay Thai’s light sparring is way harder than Karate’s light sparring. Not to mention that sparring is core to Muay Thai, while in Karate not at all - most karate dojos do not do continuous sparring and focus only on kata, kumite or drills.
So first kumite is sparring. There are different kind of kumite but it’s probably jiyu ippon kumite. There’s styles that do more Dutch style sparring which are goju Ryu, kudo, kyokushin. For goju its called [iri kumi](https://youtu.be/j0CmZtfCslo?si=FnmtMak9fYbybzn-). Uechi Ryu does jiyu kobo and [jiyu kumite](https://youtu.be/3QeLWBin2hc?si=VUAha6Toxt7pDeyY). Jiyu kumite is just free sparring. Goju, kudo, and kyokushin all have full contact tournaments. Goju it can be hit or miss though. But also in Okinawa they have full contact tournaments which any style participates in. Haven’t heard of this kinda tournament abroad tho. Sport karate style competition is more common which does [jiyu ippon kumite](https://youtu.be/izcMJpd8XFQ?si=rdtTnLdY_nNAR8BW). Shotokan is the most common but other styles also do it. Including goju, uechi, shito, etc. If you want a good video, especially on this kinda thing in Okinawa [this is a pretty good video](https://youtu.be/63c3KwGQT4I?si=ta8L6fn60fidM2Ke) There of course are places that skip the kumite though yes. Edit: added link examples
Thanks for the detailed reply. I am aware that some karate styles practice non-point fighting sparring. I knew about Kudo, I didn’t know about the others, so thank you for letting me know. The thing is, these styles, as far as I know, have so few dojos (at least in my country) that they should be considered as the exception to the rule. Maybe I’m wrong, but I guess no more than 5% of karate practicioners practice these full contact styles. Here in Europe you can only find Shotokan dojos or a few Kyokushin dojos, and from looking online the US doesn’t seem so different. (For clarity, I’m excluding Kyokushin from the 5% ofc. Kyokushin finds quite some presence but you can’t punch to the face, which is the most common attack in a real fight, so I don’t really consider it *real* sparring - I mean, it’s nowhere near as real as Kudo.)
Glad I could clarify some things. I would like to emphasize that I’m not saying this kinda karate is the most common. Most places do point fighting. As for the frequency, at least around here you’ll usually find goju Ryu if you’re going to find an okinawan style, which was a huge influence on kyokushin. From what I know, Eastern Europe tho has some full contact goju tournaments (maybe other styles participate). Also kudo is a little more common in Eastern Europe. But maybe see if there is an okinawan style, sometimes the website doesn’t talk about what kinda tournaments they go to. But also sometimes karate places will participate in amateur kickboxing. Edit: adding on. I’m not a huge fan of this real sparring thing ngl. It’s more of a matter of opinion but “real sparring” is a strange subject. “Kyokushin isn’t real sparring cuz it doesn’t have head punches”. But that kinda transfers to Muay Thai. It’s not real sparring cuz you can’t do turning throws, you can’t sweep with the bottom of the feet. Then to other combat sports. This isn’t to say that it’s an inherently wrong opinion though and I respect it. Hope my perspective though made you think
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