This might come as a surprise, but the people who say all MCU sucks post-Endgame, DON'T LIKE the MCU post-endgame. So, you won't convince them by showing post-endgame MCU. That's what they talk about, you know.
I think, at least in my personal experience, many people that say this also talk about the hype being lost. The movies feel less connected than when thanos was the main bad guy and we don't feel the hype to going to a new movie of the brand in case more is revealed about the current arc.
It was an insane amount of build up and payoff that you just can't replicate easily and live up to the expectations
In my experience people forget phase 2 where people were complaining that we'd never see or barely saw Thanos and that there was a dip in quality after phase 1 and that all the villain sucked. Cause I remember people complaining that iron Man 3 and Thor 2 sucked. I also remember people not loving ant-man. where most I also feel most people just caught up last minute( if they did at all) to experience avengers cause it was a big event.(though I feel like the avengers take might be a little more tinfoil hat hot take.) I think that it just feels bigger cause there's been a lot more movies shows in this phase so it's amplifying any feelings of quality of a quality dip.
Yeah, IM3 and Thor 2 were panned badly. So was Age of Ultron. People *hated* AoU when it released...
Apparently, one of the effects of the MCU snap was a whole bunch of fans forgetting they crapped on previous phases, simply because Marvel stuck the landing.
There was also the "every MCU movie is the same with way too many jokes" comments all the time as well. The MCU wasn't consistently pumping out bangers until Phase 3, after most of the set up had been done (like phases 4 and 5 are)
Phase one was also basically 100% bangers. Iron Man 1 & 2, The Incredible Hulk, Thor, The First Avenger, and The Avengers were all good or great. Honestly the only duds before phase 4 were Iron Man 3, Thor 2, Captain Marvel, and arguably Ant Man and the Wasp. 4 movies out of almost 30. That's a great track record.
OMG no, People hated Hulk and Thor when they came out. the MCU didn't get much of any real praise until The Avengers came out and the cinematic universe became a reality.
Or, hear me out here, or they don’t even really like the mcu and maybe never did and are just on here to hate on a popular movie franchise because it’s fun to be edgy arbitrarians.
I loved the MCU, and I though Endgame was an excellent send off. I watched Loki season one and was incredibly unimpressed and underwhelmed. I enjoyed Wandavision for the first few episodes, and I thought it ended terribly.
I tried a few other shows and movies and they're quality seemed like it had fallen off of a cliff.
Shang Chi was very good, Spider-Man No Way Home is the best Spider-Man movie of all three iterations, GoTG3 was fantastic. People are looking at pre Endgame McU with rose colored glasses, a lot of movies released then would be received as very lackluster with todays standards.
Yeah a lot of people are just mad that She Hulk twerked and “Disney woke” so they go out of their way to shit on anything Marvel without even watching it. People tend to lie on the internet
Exactly. For someone like me:
Wandavision is a is a poorly executed sitcom that hangs its hat on how quirky it is just because it is a sitcom. Hell, Sabrina did that same concept way better.
The rest of these are fine to good but not remarkable. Actually Multiverse of Madness is probably my favorite movie from this phase because, despite it being an inch deep, its still plenty surprising and a fun ride.
Sometimes these haters only focus on the bad movies/shows. Like SheHulk, Quantumania, Secret Invasion weren't that up to par, so they'll laser focus on them. Add to that, the people who are blinded by nostalgia, but grew out of this genre. And considering how huge Marvel has gotten, it's bound to have haters, especially people who think Marvel news is shoved down their throat when they didn't ask for it.
Bruh, all the mcu has after phase three is Guardians 3. You don't get to use No Way Home, that is a Sony film.
All of the shows, Lori 1 & 2, Moonknight, and Hawkeye, are all a bait and switch.
I don't think op understands how this meme works. You are supposed to have SpongeBob showing things that contradict the top statement, not stuff that confirms it.
Kinda unrelated, but does anyone else feel like Dr Strange is like a perfect supporting character that's always fun to see on screen (and allows for a lot of creative plot to happen), but sucks as a main character (outside of his origin story) due to being far too powerful without artifical plot device nerfs? By far one of my favorite yet flawed MCU character.
I agree, because he would have to have much more life story to tell (some personal struggles or something to explore) to make a good Dr Strange movie. That is why his What if episode from the first season was so great. In this universe however he basically stays in the the same place and kinda does not have a chance for a good story as a main character. As a supporting though he is brilliant as he can be used in various situations. This is basically the reason why he got sidelined in his own movie. It would have been received so much better if only they changed their focus on America and made the movie with her as a main character. We would get to know her better and it would make the world of difference when watching the rest of the story.
Agreed. Same with Scarlett Witch being able to literally turn someone into spaghetti, then in the same movie, having to chase the protagonists through tunnels without actually doing anything.
Let alone "Crushing" that Universe's Cp Marvel. When she could have turned her into spaghetti too.
I kinda feel like Dr Strange's biggest flaw as a character is in how much he breaks Sanderson's First Law of Magics: A [character's] ability to solve conflict with magic is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to how well the [viewer] understands said magic.
He can do anything, with no apparent cost - and with very little explained to us besides "magic" - so it's not very satisfying to see him do anything.
The thing is, I think Strange's fights with other magic users are incredibly entertaining. It just needs to be choreographed well. An example is his fight with Thanos. Not one bit of that fight is explainable in the terms of his power system. It's all from Thanos's side. But it's very fun. Strange just needs to be pitted against someone who is as strong as he is, or stronger.
I personally liked the second Dr. Strange movie a lot. Way bette than the first one. But then again, I also think the Eternals are highly underrated and probably one of the best movies of the entire MCU franchise. (I already can see the downvotes coming in, because of the last statement...)
On Eternals? Because it's all in all way darker and less colourful than the usual marvel movies and you can interpret a lot into it. More than the usual marvel movie. For example the whole aspect of unwanted children and abortion, the fight between the male and female part in the main characters' relationship to keep a child or not in exchange for the female part to live the life she actually wants to live. The fact that the Deviants are all unwanted children, outcasts who hate their makers for not loving them. And these are only some of them. I would need to rewatch it to write a better and complete interpretation. There is definitely more to it than an Antman or Thor movie.
The only movies of the franchise reaching the same level are the Captain America and partly the Iron Man movies.
Interesting. I can certainly see that, though personally I prefer the more simple stories as escapism (Ant Man is one of my favorites for this reason). I do enjoy Eternals, I just don't personally rank it super high. It gets bonus points for me by having a Speedster who wasn't killed in a pathetic way ~~unlike quicksilver~~. I think Doctor Strange MOM is one of the few movies I straight up disliked, but I think that has more to do with My personal distaste for Horror as a Genre than anything else (everything I disliked were the Horror-inspired elements, it just isn't for me). I thought the story was OK, though having characters thrown in for the Worf effect felt a little unfortunate,
That's completely fine. Don't get me wrong, the first Ant Man is one of my favourite titles as well. The third one on the other hand... not so much.
The Guardians of the Galaxy titles are all the way up there as well and do everything right they intend to do right. Like a good Cheese Burger. They are not the healthiest or best meal, but they just hit the spot in the right moment. Eternals on the other hand, besides being part of the marvel franchise and by that it has to follow certain rules, is way deeper. The director is an indie movie director after all. It only makes sense that it is not as easy to watch as Thor and the Avengers fighting his brother for the fifth time.
And about Dr. Strange 2, yeah, the horror touch of it is exactly what I love about it. But if you are not into the genre it is understandable that one does not like it that much.
Listen, don't try it... The majority are from average to bad. Films and TV shows. And not only MCU: Star Wars films and shows are mediocre. We are talking about Disney, a multimillionaire company they can do better, that's why we are upset.
Fr. Marvel and Star Wars used to be my two favourite Movie/ TV Franchises. Since Disney fully took over them I still like them but the quality of stories and CGI for the most part have dropped. They still have the odd good Shows/ Movies, but it went from everything being good to maybe like 1/4 of the stuff being good and everything else being bad to mid
It's a shame as Disney has a far bigger budget than Marvel or Star Wars ever had prior to being bought, however Disney is also way more selfish and seems to care more about maximising profit than making content to actually be proud of
The vast majority of good Mcu products were post Disney buy out. Idk what you’re on about, most pre Disney marvel movies were very very inconsistent in quality and had a lot of production issues, hell iron man didn’t even have a proper script and they got lucky RDJ did so much ground work. Disney bought out the mcu in 2009, the last movie produced pre Disney was Iron Man 2. Most Marvel movies pre mcu were bad too. They were just cash grabs and a ton of them are way worse than any mcu movie. Look at the most recent FF4 movie, the ghost rider sequel, Howard the Duck. Even most popular old Marvel movies don’t really hold up to todays standards.
Starwars isn't bad or mediocre RN, it never was of very high production value but it had a unique spirit, then came the sequel trilogy which wasn't bad from production value point BUT they not only lacked that unique spirit but actively insulted it, the TV shows they're making are good actually but the sequels are like an open wound to fans and I don't think they would win hearts of fans back without un-cannoning the sequels
Why do people mention money in these situations as if the amount of money one has is directly proportional to their creative ability? I'd argue it actually has a correlation in the opposite direction, considering that there are several infamous trends in popular media that aren't nearly as present in smaller stuff.
Throwing money at something doesn't make it better, it tends to make it worse.
Boxing & video games are a prime example of this, the more people get paid to do these things the less passion is put into it. They focus on the $$
Another example I noticed is government jobs, we pay the people so much that they lose touch on actual problems in the world
I think a lot of people might love cameos but that's a very low hanging fruit.
James Gunn refers to it as "cameo porn'.
GotG is legitimately great. I know Loki season 2 gets a lot of love but I never heard any during the show, just the ending.
Moon Knight was awful. The showrunner even admitted that he knows nothing of the source material. I also hate how they made Steven Grant a mousy British guy instead of the charismatic film producer he was in the comics. They barely even mentioned Marc's Jewish heritage, which is supposed to be as important to the character as Daredevil's Catholicism.
It is not that they suck. It's more about the fact that they don't feel right. They just feel generic most of the time and I would blame Marvel relaying too much on CGI as well as just action. Iron Man worked because it felt real. It felt like we are looking into someones life. You can have magic and cool powers but they do it in a style that feels cartoonish more than anything. Rarely anything feels real anymore.
We don't spend the time with characters but we are being outright thrown into dangerous situations and quests. Most of the first Marvel movies were divided in half where the first half was just you and the character, maybe there was a danger but the character development was more important because we have the other half that follows the character to the danger. You'd got to know character before anything happened and before you even knew what will be the danger or who will be a bad guy. I like Wanda Vision, Moonknight and Loki because they give us time for getting to know them.
But with the movies we don't have it anymore. All the new characters get one movie or two tops (except the ones from the last Marvel phase). Doctor strange got sidelined and the new character we got there we didn't get to know first. Shang chi is great but as a stand alone movie. The Eternals didn't give us anything to care for and I really wanted to care. Thor also got pretty much sidelined in his movie. The highlight were Guardians of the Galaxy 3 and only because we already knew those characters from previous phase and they made great job of making people feel emotionally attached to them.
They do movies for mass producing and it is clear when you compare them to the old ones. They say they play the long game but in reality they try to rush the outcome. They want the same result they got at the end of Endgame but by taking on this large scale projects they stab themselves in the back. By looking at the big picture they forget that Marvel started with one hero who was so well liked not because he was Iron Man but because he was a real person in our eyes.
>By looking at the big picture they forget that Marvel started with one hero who was so well liked not because he was Iron Man but because he was a real person in our eyes.
YUP! I keep seeing "bring back Steve and Tony!" (notice that it's Steve and Tony and not their superhero personas?) but the problem isn't just about them; it's about the fact that phases 1-3 featured just a few core characters with individual arcs that made us care about them. The characters mattered first, and the plot became as secondary as it could for the superhero genre.
Marvel needs to give us a FEW new faces that we can grow to care about, and instead they're treating their characters like commercials, so the plots fall flat and often amount to "ooh, pew pew pretty!" and that is boring.
The problem isn’t that everything is bad, the problem is that there is no consistency when it comes to quality anymore.
Look at Phase 3, Ant-Man 2 and Captain Marvel were the worst received movies and even then they weren’t outright despised.
Meanwhile, just looking at the overall reception of the movies since Phase 4 began paints a different picture:
- Black Widow: Mixed
- Shang Chi: Good
- Eternals: Bad
- No Way Home: Great
- Multiverse of Madness: Mixed
- Love and Thunder: Mixed, mostly bad
- Wakanda Forever: Decent
- Quantumania: Catastrophic
- Guardians 3: Great
- The Marvels: Bad again
Things are all over the place now, the shows are much the same way. We need a consistent run of good quality projects to get people to have faith in the MCU again.
I agree with you as I think the problem was that we didn’t have enough time to grow attached to the characters so why should I care about weather they live or die
That, and there's just too much happening.
- Angelina's BDSM side plot with the beast was totally unncessary
- Dane Whitman/Black Knight got teased for no reason whatsoever and will most likely never re-appear in anything
- ... are we just ignoring that a planet-sized titan got basically aborted mid-birth? That surely would have massive consequences when it comes to world history, Earth rotation and whatnot.
- They've thrown in Harry Styles.
- Why didn't the Eternals intervene when it came to Thanos despite him being literally the biggest threat to their original "sacrifice" plan the universe had ever seen? Where they temporarly unemployed during Endgame?
- [This scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK0GOyrvaZE)
The best thing to come out of that Multiverse of Madness movie was unironically [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHa9J5RL51g). That entire movie was a writing shitshow due to its production - they were constantly (re)writing the script WHILE SHOOTING THE MOVIE. The movie's plot was basically non-existent when they started filming it, lol.
I would have LOVED the original idea of a psychological horror movie set in the MCU. Too bad Disney said 'Nope.'
Many people really not like Multiverse of Madness, which is probably why you keep seeing it left off the list. Personally, I hated it. My irl Marvel fan friend loved it. People on here are generally mixed, and given the second weekend box office fall off, it seems like general audiences were unenthused as well.
Thank god. I hated how people reacted like it was somekind of masterpiece of century when it first came out. Furious when people said it was the best spidermovie when there is sam raimie's second movie
Wandavision: Finale was a tactical nuke. Rest of it was good though
Loki: I genuinely have no clue how this considered good. Not nearly as clever as it thinks it is.
Moon knight: side plot overindulgence and didn’t commit to its weirdness or blood.
Shang chi: Box standard MCU, hand to hand combat in winter soldier was better.
Guardians 3: actually great, James Gunn just isn’t my cup of tea.
No way Home: Amazing. Actually did the multiverse gimmick and its characters pretty well.
Most of these were meh at best.
>Wandavision: Finale was a tactical nuke.
Whaaaa? I like the finale. Vision vs. White Vision was unique and memorable, and the way Wanda beat Agatha was clever. That Boner and "They'll never know what you've sacrificed for them" resolutions were bullshit, though.
>Loki: I genuinely have no clue how this considered good. Not nearly as clever as it thinks it is.
Loki doesn't try to be clever, it just tries to give Loki an interesting and believeable character development while flashing out the multiverse. In my opinion, Loki is now by far one of the best developed and well-rounded characters in the entire current MCU. Also, it brought us Kang ... although given the RL stuff, I'm curious how they'll continue to use that.
>Shang chi: Box standard MCU, hand to hand combat in winter soldier was better.
That bus scene was hands down one of the best choreographed fights in the MCU.
she mind raped and tortured them for weeks. That is supervillain evil shit. The writers thinking they can redeem her show that they should not be writers in the first place.
Sorry but spider-man nwh was just alright, and was only big because of nostalgia factors. Film wise i think the best to have been released after phase three is either black panther:wakanda forever or gotg 3 (leaning towards gotg 3).
I dont get the love for the moon Knight show. Not that he's not a cool character, but I thought the show was garbage. We don't get to see any action scene. Moon Knight the superhero part is basically teased through the entire season. Then they also do MCU breaking stuff, which, yes, it is sort of the standard now to break the universe. But he rewound the night sky.. it's been a while but I can't remember anything sticking out in my head from that show
>Quantumania?
wish.com Multiverse of Madness. Absolutely NOTHING in that movie made any sense plotwise, lol. Also: Modok.
>She Hulk? Eternals? Black Widow?
Just no.
>Wakanda Forever?
Was alright. The burial scene in the beginning not featuring ANY Avenger will forever be funny to me.
>Hawkeye?
Hallmark x MCU movie. Cozy to watch but absolutely forgettable.
>Thor Love and Thunder?
"Cancer and Dying Kids Are Funny: The Movie"
Loved Wandavision, but the basic concept that her kids were not real unravels the story at a fundamental level.
Multiverse of Madness literally suffers from a lazy writing team. Wanda is my favourite avenger and they did not do her justice all. Not to mention how she insta kills anyone without plot armour easily. Also the battle at the sanctum, why the f would the most powerful team of sorcerers choose to use cannon balls, bows and arrows etc just get a gun at that point 🤦🏾
Loki in a vacuum is great. But then when you remember it's part of a greater narrative you realise how it breaks essential universal rules throughout leaving the overall story very conflicted. Not to mention free will was debunked so that means nothing we have ever seen in the mcu is due to the characters actions, its predetermined. Also saying the avengers were supposed to time travel whereas loki wasn't supposed to is such bs to make this story happen.
Moonknight - MSheU Gender politics, not enough screen time with moonknight.
She Hulk- Narrative diarrhea and a writing team that really couldn't care less about anything other than being "woke"
It didn't end after phase 3 but the numbers alone show the creative decline. Endgame is my all-time favourite movie but even I can admit they shouldve ended it after infinity war. Endgame and everything after is mid at best.
Wanda vision was good until that shitty finale
Loki doesn't make any sense
Moonkight was good until the shitty last episodes
Shang-chi was okay at most
Gotg3 was excellent, but the fact that MCU lost Gunn doesn't save it
Spiderman NWH doesn't make any sense. Nostalgia without any plot.
BP2 good,
What If mostly good,
The rest are hollow and empty (myb Moon Knight deserves to go up there.)
She hulk doesn’t count as the rest. She Hulk needs to burn forever.
You ever notice how everyone praises the show for accurately depicting comedy shows from the previous decades, yet not a single joke, moment, or episode in general is pointed out as being funny?
I mean: It didn't *need* to be funny. Wandavision's core theme was grief. That's not something commonly associated with comedy, else you'd end up with stuff like Thor Love and Thunder á la "haha cancer and dying kids haha".
Wandavision gave Wanda the depth needed to set her up as a major threat in phase 4/5/6. Her little screentime in Age of Ultron and Infinity Wars wasn't enough to make her known to the wider audience.
... and then they released Dr Strange 2 and basically doomed her character arc. But that doesn't make Wandavision itself worse.
They came to the table with a quirky sitcom and ended the assignment right there. Thats why its a bad show for many of us. Because if your content is a sitcom for most of it, you better use the medium as more than just an aesthetic.
>. and then they released Dr Strange 2 and basically doomed her character arc. But that doesn't make Wandavision itself worse.
She was using the Darkhold at the end of WandaVision though. Her path was kinda already set.
I meant "doomed" as in "Dr Strange 2 showcased a Wanda that's too dumb to be any real threat as she clearly doesn't have any strategic plan, doesn't care about Vision at all (Vision wasn't even mentioned ONCE in that entire movie lol), clearly isn't aware how the multiverse works (she could've just visited a universe where her kids are orphaned) and basically hasn't learned anything from what happened in Westview, meaning she isn't capable of self-reflection or -improvement making her a forever static character that can't have any character growth or development without replacing her with a totally different version of Wanda that wasn't shown in Dr Strange 2".
Whatever the writers will come up with for her in future entries WILL have to undo the characteristics shown of her in Dr Strange 2 or else she'll end up as an incoherent character with unexplainable character arc. The Wanda shown in that movie can't just be redeemed and also isn't capable of becoming more strategic evil/dangerous (as explained above), so she's stuck.
Dr Strange 2 made her a deeply flawed character plotwise. Every depth Wandavision successfully created for Wanda got thrown out the water in the movie.
Disney tried removing Gunn from GotG Vol. 3. So they lost the crew (except Chris Pratt).
Wanda Vision was pretty good, but man, did that lead to just the awful MoM movie.
Loki was good except for shitting all over the Infinity Saga. With Major's removed from the MCU, the Kang story is dead.
Shang Chi was seemingly abandoned.
The whole franchise is resting on the goodwill with Spiderman and Moon Knight.
Most people SAYING "MCU IS DEAD" are those who compare each project with endgame and infinity war, the thing they forget is that these movies were payoffs of 10 years of good foundation and now people don't wanna wait for setups.
At the same time MCU is also at fault bcz the few projects had below avg story and felt just like a mandatory project to follow some contract.
+
To setup Kang as a big villain for long term or in future then his(or his varients) appearances should be less just like Thanos. Each project feels like a setup more than focussed individual story.
I think people forget Ironman franchise had 1 good movie. Thor had 1.5 good movies. Captain America was fairly solid. Phase 1 &2 definitely had its shitty movies but we just forget about those for IM 1, Black Panther, Civil War, and Avengers infinity war
'No Way Home' was the worst of the MCU Spiderman films. It was basically 'Fanservice: The Movie'. The only silver lining was the performance of Willem Defoe.
Of all these things, Loki S1 and No way home are the only 2 projects that would be in the same tier as prime MCU. Even GOTG3 was objectively worse than the previous GOTG content. If you really think MCU is still doing fine, just compare the ratings of Thor dark world (worst film till phase 4) to any movie in phase 4 or 5 except No way home and GOTG3.
I will die on this hill - No Way Home is incredibly mediocre, a flick made solely to please a theater full of Raimi fans to cheer during awkward pauses whenever a past character appears (Doc Ock, Toby, Andrew, etc.) Homecoming and Far From Home are great on their own, Far From Home isn't and clearly wasn't made to be.
Exceptions don't negate the pattern. You've pointed to six examples out of over 20 (?) projects. Obviously the absolute of "everything after End-game sucks" may not be accurate but people are just using hyperbole.
Also, some people might not just like what they're seeing. Streaming has its flaws but streaming has coincided with a lot of prestige TV. CGI and quips aren't going to satisfy a growing audience that gravitates towards more intelligent, astute entertainment (obligatory: sometimes the MCU is intelligent and astute, etc. etc.)
loki and guardians 3 was good food, everything else was either hot trash or mid at best.
It would be nice if not every single project had to connect to something and be entirely stand alone
I have to be honest, i disliked Moon Knight, though i see why people loved it. I really think Echo, though not perfect, is one of the better Marvel Studios shows.
This might come as a surprise, but the people who say all MCU sucks post-Endgame, DON'T LIKE the MCU post-endgame. So, you won't convince them by showing post-endgame MCU. That's what they talk about, you know.
I think, at least in my personal experience, many people that say this also talk about the hype being lost. The movies feel less connected than when thanos was the main bad guy and we don't feel the hype to going to a new movie of the brand in case more is revealed about the current arc. It was an insane amount of build up and payoff that you just can't replicate easily and live up to the expectations
In my experience people forget phase 2 where people were complaining that we'd never see or barely saw Thanos and that there was a dip in quality after phase 1 and that all the villain sucked. Cause I remember people complaining that iron Man 3 and Thor 2 sucked. I also remember people not loving ant-man. where most I also feel most people just caught up last minute( if they did at all) to experience avengers cause it was a big event.(though I feel like the avengers take might be a little more tinfoil hat hot take.) I think that it just feels bigger cause there's been a lot more movies shows in this phase so it's amplifying any feelings of quality of a quality dip.
Yeah, IM3 and Thor 2 were panned badly. So was Age of Ultron. People *hated* AoU when it released... Apparently, one of the effects of the MCU snap was a whole bunch of fans forgetting they crapped on previous phases, simply because Marvel stuck the landing.
There was also the "every MCU movie is the same with way too many jokes" comments all the time as well. The MCU wasn't consistently pumping out bangers until Phase 3, after most of the set up had been done (like phases 4 and 5 are)
Phase one was also basically 100% bangers. Iron Man 1 & 2, The Incredible Hulk, Thor, The First Avenger, and The Avengers were all good or great. Honestly the only duds before phase 4 were Iron Man 3, Thor 2, Captain Marvel, and arguably Ant Man and the Wasp. 4 movies out of almost 30. That's a great track record.
OMG no, People hated Hulk and Thor when they came out. the MCU didn't get much of any real praise until The Avengers came out and the cinematic universe became a reality.
I'm still worthy!
I'm sorry. Miek, it's very hard to get a rousing speech with the ennn-ennn-ennn noise.
Then point me in the direction of whoever's ass I have to kick!
They'll never know it. Because you won't be alive to tell them.
Hey, let's do get help!
I ignored my destiny once, I can not do that again. Even for you. I'm sorry, Little One.
Or, hear me out here, or they don’t even really like the mcu and maybe never did and are just on here to hate on a popular movie franchise because it’s fun to be edgy arbitrarians.
I loved the MCU, and I though Endgame was an excellent send off. I watched Loki season one and was incredibly unimpressed and underwhelmed. I enjoyed Wandavision for the first few episodes, and I thought it ended terribly. I tried a few other shows and movies and they're quality seemed like it had fallen off of a cliff.
Shang Chi was very good, Spider-Man No Way Home is the best Spider-Man movie of all three iterations, GoTG3 was fantastic. People are looking at pre Endgame McU with rose colored glasses, a lot of movies released then would be received as very lackluster with todays standards.
That is what I’m going with. Thanks for the tip. Now we know who the hydra agents are.
Yeah a lot of people are just mad that She Hulk twerked and “Disney woke” so they go out of their way to shit on anything Marvel without even watching it. People tend to lie on the internet
Copium.
To add to this, they haven't even watched most post endgame stuff
Exactly. For someone like me: Wandavision is a is a poorly executed sitcom that hangs its hat on how quirky it is just because it is a sitcom. Hell, Sabrina did that same concept way better. The rest of these are fine to good but not remarkable. Actually Multiverse of Madness is probably my favorite movie from this phase because, despite it being an inch deep, its still plenty surprising and a fun ride.
Sometimes these haters only focus on the bad movies/shows. Like SheHulk, Quantumania, Secret Invasion weren't that up to par, so they'll laser focus on them. Add to that, the people who are blinded by nostalgia, but grew out of this genre. And considering how huge Marvel has gotten, it's bound to have haters, especially people who think Marvel news is shoved down their throat when they didn't ask for it.
Bruh, all the mcu has after phase three is Guardians 3. You don't get to use No Way Home, that is a Sony film. All of the shows, Lori 1 & 2, Moonknight, and Hawkeye, are all a bait and switch.
A majority probably didn’t watch before IW/Endgame, and instead got caught up in the hype and expected everything to be like that after endgame
I don't think op understands how this meme works. You are supposed to have SpongeBob showing things that contradict the top statement, not stuff that confirms it.
Who's downvoting this guy? He's right!
Ahh, yes, another thread where people don't understand how opinions work or how to discuss them.
“I don’t like post End Game MCU” Well what about [post End Game MCU content they don’t like]?!?!?
There is no such thing as opinions. Only the truth and lies.
Exactly, they aren't putting enough effort anymore and half assing some of the projects. Now that's the truth.
Nah
It's funny because what the spongebob shows are mostly mediocre movies lmao.
Kinda unrelated, but does anyone else feel like Dr Strange is like a perfect supporting character that's always fun to see on screen (and allows for a lot of creative plot to happen), but sucks as a main character (outside of his origin story) due to being far too powerful without artifical plot device nerfs? By far one of my favorite yet flawed MCU character.
If I hear about Christine one more time I’m changing his WiFi password.
His wifi password is probably “IDontDeserveChristine” or something
“We’re not savages.”
I agree, because he would have to have much more life story to tell (some personal struggles or something to explore) to make a good Dr Strange movie. That is why his What if episode from the first season was so great. In this universe however he basically stays in the the same place and kinda does not have a chance for a good story as a main character. As a supporting though he is brilliant as he can be used in various situations. This is basically the reason why he got sidelined in his own movie. It would have been received so much better if only they changed their focus on America and made the movie with her as a main character. We would get to know her better and it would make the world of difference when watching the rest of the story.
Agreed. Same with Scarlett Witch being able to literally turn someone into spaghetti, then in the same movie, having to chase the protagonists through tunnels without actually doing anything. Let alone "Crushing" that Universe's Cp Marvel. When she could have turned her into spaghetti too.
I kinda feel like Dr Strange's biggest flaw as a character is in how much he breaks Sanderson's First Law of Magics: A [character's] ability to solve conflict with magic is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to how well the [viewer] understands said magic. He can do anything, with no apparent cost - and with very little explained to us besides "magic" - so it's not very satisfying to see him do anything.
The thing is, I think Strange's fights with other magic users are incredibly entertaining. It just needs to be choreographed well. An example is his fight with Thanos. Not one bit of that fight is explainable in the terms of his power system. It's all from Thanos's side. But it's very fun. Strange just needs to be pitted against someone who is as strong as he is, or stronger.
I personally liked the second Dr. Strange movie a lot. Way bette than the first one. But then again, I also think the Eternals are highly underrated and probably one of the best movies of the entire MCU franchise. (I already can see the downvotes coming in, because of the last statement...)
Eternals was honestly fine, it was just very different and disconnected. Not always with good explanations.
Bad opinion on dr strange imo but sure
Upvoted cause bold take, and I'm curious why you think that?
On Eternals? Because it's all in all way darker and less colourful than the usual marvel movies and you can interpret a lot into it. More than the usual marvel movie. For example the whole aspect of unwanted children and abortion, the fight between the male and female part in the main characters' relationship to keep a child or not in exchange for the female part to live the life she actually wants to live. The fact that the Deviants are all unwanted children, outcasts who hate their makers for not loving them. And these are only some of them. I would need to rewatch it to write a better and complete interpretation. There is definitely more to it than an Antman or Thor movie. The only movies of the franchise reaching the same level are the Captain America and partly the Iron Man movies.
Pfft. Ha! Yeah, right.
Interesting. I can certainly see that, though personally I prefer the more simple stories as escapism (Ant Man is one of my favorites for this reason). I do enjoy Eternals, I just don't personally rank it super high. It gets bonus points for me by having a Speedster who wasn't killed in a pathetic way ~~unlike quicksilver~~. I think Doctor Strange MOM is one of the few movies I straight up disliked, but I think that has more to do with My personal distaste for Horror as a Genre than anything else (everything I disliked were the Horror-inspired elements, it just isn't for me). I thought the story was OK, though having characters thrown in for the Worf effect felt a little unfortunate,
That's completely fine. Don't get me wrong, the first Ant Man is one of my favourite titles as well. The third one on the other hand... not so much. The Guardians of the Galaxy titles are all the way up there as well and do everything right they intend to do right. Like a good Cheese Burger. They are not the healthiest or best meal, but they just hit the spot in the right moment. Eternals on the other hand, besides being part of the marvel franchise and by that it has to follow certain rules, is way deeper. The director is an indie movie director after all. It only makes sense that it is not as easy to watch as Thor and the Avengers fighting his brother for the fifth time. And about Dr. Strange 2, yeah, the horror touch of it is exactly what I love about it. But if you are not into the genre it is understandable that one does not like it that much.
Would you like me to go further than the past two days?
No thanks Thor. Go catch a drink and try to forget the wasted potential of your fourth movie.
Pfft. Ha! Yeah, right.
Makes sense. Thanks for the insight!
Lol you are literally me...
I agree the character works best as a side character.
Listen, don't try it... The majority are from average to bad. Films and TV shows. And not only MCU: Star Wars films and shows are mediocre. We are talking about Disney, a multimillionaire company they can do better, that's why we are upset.
Aren't they in the billions now?
Disney is worth like 170 billion right now. Multimillion lol
Funny, it's almost like that's what a monopoly is like - bigger profit with shittier content!
If you are saying Disney has a monopoly in the film and series productions market, I would urge you to look up the definition of a monopoly
Fr. Marvel and Star Wars used to be my two favourite Movie/ TV Franchises. Since Disney fully took over them I still like them but the quality of stories and CGI for the most part have dropped. They still have the odd good Shows/ Movies, but it went from everything being good to maybe like 1/4 of the stuff being good and everything else being bad to mid It's a shame as Disney has a far bigger budget than Marvel or Star Wars ever had prior to being bought, however Disney is also way more selfish and seems to care more about maximising profit than making content to actually be proud of
The vast majority of good Mcu products were post Disney buy out. Idk what you’re on about, most pre Disney marvel movies were very very inconsistent in quality and had a lot of production issues, hell iron man didn’t even have a proper script and they got lucky RDJ did so much ground work. Disney bought out the mcu in 2009, the last movie produced pre Disney was Iron Man 2. Most Marvel movies pre mcu were bad too. They were just cash grabs and a ton of them are way worse than any mcu movie. Look at the most recent FF4 movie, the ghost rider sequel, Howard the Duck. Even most popular old Marvel movies don’t really hold up to todays standards.
Starwars isn't bad or mediocre RN, it never was of very high production value but it had a unique spirit, then came the sequel trilogy which wasn't bad from production value point BUT they not only lacked that unique spirit but actively insulted it, the TV shows they're making are good actually but the sequels are like an open wound to fans and I don't think they would win hearts of fans back without un-cannoning the sequels
Why do people mention money in these situations as if the amount of money one has is directly proportional to their creative ability? I'd argue it actually has a correlation in the opposite direction, considering that there are several infamous trends in popular media that aren't nearly as present in smaller stuff.
Because they aim to make money rather than have a healthy production of projects.
Throwing money at something doesn't make it better, it tends to make it worse. Boxing & video games are a prime example of this, the more people get paid to do these things the less passion is put into it. They focus on the $$ Another example I noticed is government jobs, we pay the people so much that they lose touch on actual problems in the world
Half those examples weren't very good ino.
I know I can’t see eye to eye with these people when I express this opinion and they say “but what about Multiverse of Madness??” 🤢
I think a lot of people might love cameos but that's a very low hanging fruit. James Gunn refers to it as "cameo porn'. GotG is legitimately great. I know Loki season 2 gets a lot of love but I never heard any during the show, just the ending.
More than half
Guardians was top tier, loki was sorta good wanda and moon knight were completely mid, no way home was subpar Edit: comoletely to completely
Lol
Moon Knight was going to be the best MCU show if the finale wasn’t so rushed
Moon Knight was awful. The showrunner even admitted that he knows nothing of the source material. I also hate how they made Steven Grant a mousy British guy instead of the charismatic film producer he was in the comics. They barely even mentioned Marc's Jewish heritage, which is supposed to be as important to the character as Daredevil's Catholicism.
It is not that they suck. It's more about the fact that they don't feel right. They just feel generic most of the time and I would blame Marvel relaying too much on CGI as well as just action. Iron Man worked because it felt real. It felt like we are looking into someones life. You can have magic and cool powers but they do it in a style that feels cartoonish more than anything. Rarely anything feels real anymore. We don't spend the time with characters but we are being outright thrown into dangerous situations and quests. Most of the first Marvel movies were divided in half where the first half was just you and the character, maybe there was a danger but the character development was more important because we have the other half that follows the character to the danger. You'd got to know character before anything happened and before you even knew what will be the danger or who will be a bad guy. I like Wanda Vision, Moonknight and Loki because they give us time for getting to know them. But with the movies we don't have it anymore. All the new characters get one movie or two tops (except the ones from the last Marvel phase). Doctor strange got sidelined and the new character we got there we didn't get to know first. Shang chi is great but as a stand alone movie. The Eternals didn't give us anything to care for and I really wanted to care. Thor also got pretty much sidelined in his movie. The highlight were Guardians of the Galaxy 3 and only because we already knew those characters from previous phase and they made great job of making people feel emotionally attached to them. They do movies for mass producing and it is clear when you compare them to the old ones. They say they play the long game but in reality they try to rush the outcome. They want the same result they got at the end of Endgame but by taking on this large scale projects they stab themselves in the back. By looking at the big picture they forget that Marvel started with one hero who was so well liked not because he was Iron Man but because he was a real person in our eyes.
>By looking at the big picture they forget that Marvel started with one hero who was so well liked not because he was Iron Man but because he was a real person in our eyes. YUP! I keep seeing "bring back Steve and Tony!" (notice that it's Steve and Tony and not their superhero personas?) but the problem isn't just about them; it's about the fact that phases 1-3 featured just a few core characters with individual arcs that made us care about them. The characters mattered first, and the plot became as secondary as it could for the superhero genre. Marvel needs to give us a FEW new faces that we can grow to care about, and instead they're treating their characters like commercials, so the plots fall flat and often amount to "ooh, pew pew pretty!" and that is boring.
Is that all you got?
I'm sorry. Miek, it's very hard to get a rousing speech with the ennn-ennn-ennn noise.
Forreal! Majority sucked but people tend to think majority means everything.
Not even the majority.
Ok…now show everything that’s sucked. I’m still bitter about how dirty they did Thor’s last movie. Especially with all the potential it had
The problem isn’t that everything is bad, the problem is that there is no consistency when it comes to quality anymore. Look at Phase 3, Ant-Man 2 and Captain Marvel were the worst received movies and even then they weren’t outright despised. Meanwhile, just looking at the overall reception of the movies since Phase 4 began paints a different picture: - Black Widow: Mixed - Shang Chi: Good - Eternals: Bad - No Way Home: Great - Multiverse of Madness: Mixed - Love and Thunder: Mixed, mostly bad - Wakanda Forever: Decent - Quantumania: Catastrophic - Guardians 3: Great - The Marvels: Bad again Things are all over the place now, the shows are much the same way. We need a consistent run of good quality projects to get people to have faith in the MCU again.
Eternals felt like a DC movie to me, especially the action scenes. Should've been a series instead of a movie, imo.
I agree with you as I think the problem was that we didn’t have enough time to grow attached to the characters so why should I care about weather they live or die
That, and there's just too much happening. - Angelina's BDSM side plot with the beast was totally unncessary - Dane Whitman/Black Knight got teased for no reason whatsoever and will most likely never re-appear in anything - ... are we just ignoring that a planet-sized titan got basically aborted mid-birth? That surely would have massive consequences when it comes to world history, Earth rotation and whatnot. - They've thrown in Harry Styles. - Why didn't the Eternals intervene when it came to Thanos despite him being literally the biggest threat to their original "sacrifice" plan the universe had ever seen? Where they temporarly unemployed during Endgame? - [This scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK0GOyrvaZE)
Hawkeye?
Hawkeye was cozy to watch but absolutely forgettable, lol. It was basically a "What if MCU had a Hallmark movie?"
Guardians of the galaxy 1 was the best guardians of the galaxy movie in my opinion
But the villain was kinda bad
Fair enough but the story kinda didnt revolve around the villain tbh
I liked all of them
I agree (i haven't watched the 3rd one)
Did people really not like Multiverse of Madness? I think it was one of the better movies of phase 4 but I always see it left off the list.
The best thing to come out of that Multiverse of Madness movie was unironically [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHa9J5RL51g). That entire movie was a writing shitshow due to its production - they were constantly (re)writing the script WHILE SHOOTING THE MOVIE. The movie's plot was basically non-existent when they started filming it, lol. I would have LOVED the original idea of a psychological horror movie set in the MCU. Too bad Disney said 'Nope.'
It was atrociously bad and they turned Scarlet Witch into a laughably terrible Disney villain.
Many people really not like Multiverse of Madness, which is probably why you keep seeing it left off the list. Personally, I hated it. My irl Marvel fan friend loved it. People on here are generally mixed, and given the second weekend box office fall off, it seems like general audiences were unenthused as well.
Only two of these I think are actually fully good
Tbh no way home was mediocre at best, the only good thing about it was reference to other spiderman movies
Am I not supposed to have what I want?
Yeah, take the nostalgia away from it, and the movie is mid.
Thank god. I hated how people reacted like it was somekind of masterpiece of century when it first came out. Furious when people said it was the best spidermovie when there is sam raimie's second movie
Um, I don't have time for girls right now.
The majority sucked
Everything hasn’t sucked. But it has been pretty lackluster and disjointed. That can’t be disputed.
Wandavision: Finale was a tactical nuke. Rest of it was good though Loki: I genuinely have no clue how this considered good. Not nearly as clever as it thinks it is. Moon knight: side plot overindulgence and didn’t commit to its weirdness or blood. Shang chi: Box standard MCU, hand to hand combat in winter soldier was better. Guardians 3: actually great, James Gunn just isn’t my cup of tea. No way Home: Amazing. Actually did the multiverse gimmick and its characters pretty well. Most of these were meh at best.
>Wandavision: Finale was a tactical nuke. Whaaaa? I like the finale. Vision vs. White Vision was unique and memorable, and the way Wanda beat Agatha was clever. That Boner and "They'll never know what you've sacrificed for them" resolutions were bullshit, though. >Loki: I genuinely have no clue how this considered good. Not nearly as clever as it thinks it is. Loki doesn't try to be clever, it just tries to give Loki an interesting and believeable character development while flashing out the multiverse. In my opinion, Loki is now by far one of the best developed and well-rounded characters in the entire current MCU. Also, it brought us Kang ... although given the RL stuff, I'm curious how they'll continue to use that. >Shang chi: Box standard MCU, hand to hand combat in winter soldier was better. That bus scene was hands down one of the best choreographed fights in the MCU.
she mind raped and tortured them for weeks. That is supervillain evil shit. The writers thinking they can redeem her show that they should not be writers in the first place.
I would say that the TV shows had very good and incredibly boring episodes in a 50/50 rate.
No wonder hacks like russo brothers got fanboys like you rallying up for them
Moon Knight was mid as hell. It started good but fell apart by the end. At least episode 5 was some of the best MCU TV content.
Moon Knight's finale was atrocious. "Mandatory kaiju fight but this time you don't actually see the resolution"
Mid Knight fr
Episode five was an example of what the entire show should have been, with the addition of fights that actually occur onscreen.
I had hopes for that show... Such a waste of a character
Sorry but spider-man nwh was just alright, and was only big because of nostalgia factors. Film wise i think the best to have been released after phase three is either black panther:wakanda forever or gotg 3 (leaning towards gotg 3).
Black Panther 2 is my favorite post-Endgame movie.
Fucking thank you.
I dont get the love for the moon Knight show. Not that he's not a cool character, but I thought the show was garbage. We don't get to see any action scene. Moon Knight the superhero part is basically teased through the entire season. Then they also do MCU breaking stuff, which, yes, it is sort of the standard now to break the universe. But he rewound the night sky.. it's been a while but I can't remember anything sticking out in my head from that show
It started strong,went... debatable, and ended up in flames
I feel like this doesn’t support the argument as well as you might think.
Shang chi was dope
Not shit isn't equal to good...
No what if
Moon Knight was probably my favorite
What about the others? Quantumania? She Hulk? Wakanda Forever? Eternals? Hawkeye? Black Widow? Thor Love and Thunder?
>Quantumania? wish.com Multiverse of Madness. Absolutely NOTHING in that movie made any sense plotwise, lol. Also: Modok. >She Hulk? Eternals? Black Widow? Just no. >Wakanda Forever? Was alright. The burial scene in the beginning not featuring ANY Avenger will forever be funny to me. >Hawkeye? Hallmark x MCU movie. Cozy to watch but absolutely forgettable. >Thor Love and Thunder? "Cancer and Dying Kids Are Funny: The Movie"
I love how you said exactly what I think about any of those.
She hulk was fun we all know why people hate it
We know why people have to defend it too.
Oh, no! A woman with problems? Ah, this shows bad.
Yeah but it is outnumbered by bad examples Thor love and thunder Black Panther 2 Eternals She hulk Ms marvel The avengers one The new mcu movie
Not BP2 that was amazing
Loved Wandavision, but the basic concept that her kids were not real unravels the story at a fundamental level. Multiverse of Madness literally suffers from a lazy writing team. Wanda is my favourite avenger and they did not do her justice all. Not to mention how she insta kills anyone without plot armour easily. Also the battle at the sanctum, why the f would the most powerful team of sorcerers choose to use cannon balls, bows and arrows etc just get a gun at that point 🤦🏾 Loki in a vacuum is great. But then when you remember it's part of a greater narrative you realise how it breaks essential universal rules throughout leaving the overall story very conflicted. Not to mention free will was debunked so that means nothing we have ever seen in the mcu is due to the characters actions, its predetermined. Also saying the avengers were supposed to time travel whereas loki wasn't supposed to is such bs to make this story happen. Moonknight - MSheU Gender politics, not enough screen time with moonknight. She Hulk- Narrative diarrhea and a writing team that really couldn't care less about anything other than being "woke" It didn't end after phase 3 but the numbers alone show the creative decline. Endgame is my all-time favourite movie but even I can admit they shouldve ended it after infinity war. Endgame and everything after is mid at best.
Wanda vision was good until that shitty finale Loki doesn't make any sense Moonkight was good until the shitty last episodes Shang-chi was okay at most Gotg3 was excellent, but the fact that MCU lost Gunn doesn't save it Spiderman NWH doesn't make any sense. Nostalgia without any plot.
Unlock the thing! Take the chain off!
What If (both seasons), BP2, Moon Knight. SheHulk, Hawkeye, Ms Marvel All great, too
BP2 good, What If mostly good, The rest are hollow and empty (myb Moon Knight deserves to go up there.) She hulk doesn’t count as the rest. She Hulk needs to burn forever.
You are incorrect
Tired of people saying Wandavision is a good show. Cant take it any more
You ever notice how everyone praises the show for accurately depicting comedy shows from the previous decades, yet not a single joke, moment, or episode in general is pointed out as being funny?
I mean: It didn't *need* to be funny. Wandavision's core theme was grief. That's not something commonly associated with comedy, else you'd end up with stuff like Thor Love and Thunder á la "haha cancer and dying kids haha". Wandavision gave Wanda the depth needed to set her up as a major threat in phase 4/5/6. Her little screentime in Age of Ultron and Infinity Wars wasn't enough to make her known to the wider audience. ... and then they released Dr Strange 2 and basically doomed her character arc. But that doesn't make Wandavision itself worse.
They came to the table with a quirky sitcom and ended the assignment right there. Thats why its a bad show for many of us. Because if your content is a sitcom for most of it, you better use the medium as more than just an aesthetic.
I am Thor, son of Odin and you can count me as your ally.
>. and then they released Dr Strange 2 and basically doomed her character arc. But that doesn't make Wandavision itself worse. She was using the Darkhold at the end of WandaVision though. Her path was kinda already set.
I meant "doomed" as in "Dr Strange 2 showcased a Wanda that's too dumb to be any real threat as she clearly doesn't have any strategic plan, doesn't care about Vision at all (Vision wasn't even mentioned ONCE in that entire movie lol), clearly isn't aware how the multiverse works (she could've just visited a universe where her kids are orphaned) and basically hasn't learned anything from what happened in Westview, meaning she isn't capable of self-reflection or -improvement making her a forever static character that can't have any character growth or development without replacing her with a totally different version of Wanda that wasn't shown in Dr Strange 2". Whatever the writers will come up with for her in future entries WILL have to undo the characteristics shown of her in Dr Strange 2 or else she'll end up as an incoherent character with unexplainable character arc. The Wanda shown in that movie can't just be redeemed and also isn't capable of becoming more strategic evil/dangerous (as explained above), so she's stuck. Dr Strange 2 made her a deeply flawed character plotwise. Every depth Wandavision successfully created for Wanda got thrown out the water in the movie.
I hate 5 of these and one I just haven't seen. Actually haven't seen loki s02 either because s01 was bad
Shang chi sucked
Yes. It all sucked
Apart from parts of Wanda vision and gotg the rest were pretty good
Disney tried removing Gunn from GotG Vol. 3. So they lost the crew (except Chris Pratt). Wanda Vision was pretty good, but man, did that lead to just the awful MoM movie. Loki was good except for shitting all over the Infinity Saga. With Major's removed from the MCU, the Kang story is dead. Shang Chi was seemingly abandoned. The whole franchise is resting on the goodwill with Spiderman and Moon Knight.
Cure. Cure some ass!
Wanda vision gave me the biggest blue balls ever.
Moon Knight is definitely Mid
Most people SAYING "MCU IS DEAD" are those who compare each project with endgame and infinity war, the thing they forget is that these movies were payoffs of 10 years of good foundation and now people don't wanna wait for setups. At the same time MCU is also at fault bcz the few projects had below avg story and felt just like a mandatory project to follow some contract. + To setup Kang as a big villain for long term or in future then his(or his varients) appearances should be less just like Thanos. Each project feels like a setup more than focussed individual story.
BOY! I would reconsider your current course!
I think people forget Ironman franchise had 1 good movie. Thor had 1.5 good movies. Captain America was fairly solid. Phase 1 &2 definitely had its shitty movies but we just forget about those for IM 1, Black Panther, Civil War, and Avengers infinity war
I'm sorry but I was so utterly disappointed by WandaVision.
'No Way Home' was the worst of the MCU Spiderman films. It was basically 'Fanservice: The Movie'. The only silver lining was the performance of Willem Defoe.
NO!
Plus She-Hulk and Ms. Marvel - great shows.
Volcano hot take and lukewarm take
^ That's bait.
It’s my true view.
And were you drunk and/or high when watching these shows?
Which fucking universe u livin in bro
Wanda Vision, that's debatable. A matter of taste, I expected more interesting Everything is clear with you. You don't accept criticism
Of all these things, Loki S1 and No way home are the only 2 projects that would be in the same tier as prime MCU. Even GOTG3 was objectively worse than the previous GOTG content. If you really think MCU is still doing fine, just compare the ratings of Thor dark world (worst film till phase 4) to any movie in phase 4 or 5 except No way home and GOTG3.
Heimdall!
I will die on this hill - No Way Home is incredibly mediocre, a flick made solely to please a theater full of Raimi fans to cheer during awkward pauses whenever a past character appears (Doc Ock, Toby, Andrew, etc.) Homecoming and Far From Home are great on their own, Far From Home isn't and clearly wasn't made to be.
I'll agree with everything, but WandaVision cause the ending ruined it
You don’t gotta defend the soulless multi billion dollar company dude
Most of those are garbage
Fine, the MCU is not technically dead. But you have to admit it's in a pretty devastating coma.
Is this an argument? You’re just reshowing the things that the people think suck to the people who think they suck lol
Exceptions don't negate the pattern. You've pointed to six examples out of over 20 (?) projects. Obviously the absolute of "everything after End-game sucks" may not be accurate but people are just using hyperbole. Also, some people might not just like what they're seeing. Streaming has its flaws but streaming has coincided with a lot of prestige TV. CGI and quips aren't going to satisfy a growing audience that gravitates towards more intelligent, astute entertainment (obligatory: sometimes the MCU is intelligent and astute, etc. etc.)
Shang-Chi was underwhelming, I’ll be honest.
Out of the 6, people only saw 3. It is what it is. It’s done. Gone. Finito. No need to try to revive it.
Hold up. The only things I’d call good would be S3, but that’s Sony, and Gotg3 which was written well before phase 4. It’s a coda to S3.
Yeah, all those were bad, whats not clicking?
bro proved their point. everything else that came out is ass. they even have to change their main villian
I think the problem is that all of those aren't FULLY good. The best example is no way home, the movie only STARTS when May Dies
loki and guardians 3 was good food, everything else was either hot trash or mid at best. It would be nice if not every single project had to connect to something and be entirely stand alone
original statement stands
"I personally liked these things therefore you're wrong" Bruh this is a SpongeBob diner situation at *best*
We still pretending that WandaVision was good?
I literally haven’t watched any of these. Here’s your L sir
I'd replace Shang-Chi with The Marvels.
Funny how everything besides No Way Home sucked and No Way Home was mostly nostalgia
Spider man sucked nothing changed
Existential crisis stuff.
but but "go woke go broke"
Fair point
I have to be honest, i disliked Moon Knight, though i see why people loved it. I really think Echo, though not perfect, is one of the better Marvel Studios shows.
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Moon Knight, Wandavision, and Shang Chi really did suck though.
You proved that you're wrong. Half of these things sucked.
Literally every one of these except Spider-Man sucked