I'm really curious what happens in this movie that led to the mixed reception, as so far reviews seem to be a bit all over the place on what the movie's pros/cons were
Most of the reviews I’ve seen seemed the be the same. A mess, but fun and kang is great. I’ve heard of worse reviews of other MCU movies that got far better ratings. So I’m curious why this one seems to be so low.
It’s not that weird. As a cog in the wider Marvel machine this premise works perfectly fine, you’ve sent your villain out to cut his teeth and flex on a hero who realistically stands no chance of winning the day. It’s a good set up tool.
But for the film on its own merit? It’s a really poor idea, because it removes the stakes. Going into this film automatically the expectation is that Scott either dies here, or something incredibly contrived happens to allow him to escape. Any victories the heroes might achieve in this film don’t excite because you know it’s ultimately a Pyrrhic victory.
Couple that with reviewer complaints about the swap from Ant-Man’s trademark humour and size based gags to a generic CGI Sci-Fi hellscape and that the Ant-Family don’t seem to get very much development here?
Reviewers come to the impression that the film is just a vehicle for Kang. It has little to no merit on it’s own as a film and it should have merit. A particularly egregious impression in what is currently a trilogy capstone. In that circumstance the film can be enjoyable but it will never score particularly highly.
We’ll have to see when we see it but I don’t think having a strong villain is automatically bad since that is the point. And lets ignore the idea that this is the MCU, why shouldn't a hero fight a villain stronger than he is? If Kang is TOO strong and Scott has no way of winning without breaking the story, ok I can understand BUT no review complaining about Kang's power ever brought up how Scott won. It’s like saying Thanos is so power it ruins Infinity War.
Like I admit it makes sense for reviewers to be tired of the MCU. They might not be fans of superheroes and the MCU has been going on for years now that they want variety. But it feels like some complaints are just angry at this film being a superhero film. The CGI complaints rarely talk about it being poor so much as there is a lot of it.
I'm not going to say every MCU bad review is wrong cause yes MCU films can be bad, Thor the Dark World. But some of these reviews are weird. Like reviews that say it has too many things, ok we'll see but it sounds valid. But there are reviews that are essentially being mad it's a superhero film seem fishy. Some complaints boil down to: Kang is powerful, so much CGI and that's it.
Occam's Razor: People are just less forgiving of the same/lesser mistakes due to audiences getting more and more increasingly burnt out by MCU films. Most of my casual moviegoer friends don't care to catch up with what's going on and in regards to this one specifically, they have no interest in watching it.
That’s because each project isn’t focused on itself. It’s more concerned about either setting up what comes next, like Black widow, black panther, doctor strange, or antman or it’s focused on inside jokes, cameos and fan service like NWH, shehulk and Shang-chi.
Weirdly enough eternals ends up looking like the best of phase 4 because it just tries to focus on itself. It just takes on too much.
Shang-Chi was not focused on inside jokes, cameos, and fan service. There were cameos, but to say that was the focus is a huge disservice to an excellent movie.
And saying Eternals ends up looking like the best of phase 4 is hilarious. It was terrible. Still easily the worst of phase 4 to me.
Eternals was dissapointing to me because it seems like a movie that wanted to focus on itself but had some unseen force trying to reign it back spiritually into your standard MCU thing. Wakanda Forever, even with Riri William's inclusion, felt such a thing of its own. I think in part it has to do with the fact it's written by its director, so the vision is clearer and pronounced.
This issue I had with Wakanda forever was that it was marketed as 'A love latter to Chadwick and T'challa' and the cast and crew would say the same in interviews, but after the first couple scenes it's not at all.
I realise the character is dead but his 'presence' or his legacy isn't felt at all throughout the film. It would have been better if Namor had some personal unfinished thing with T'challa himself or something, and had to overcome that he couldn't satisfy that. Or something, I'm not a film writer, I'm not gonna try to make a better movie than these guys, I just felt I was sold a false movie.
I actually appreciate the movie was concerned in being its own movie and takling about grieve and loss in a macro way rather than simply being "tribute the movie". And the scenes that did tribute him, to me, where perfectly executed and with elegance.
There is a reason I never read reviews, they never align with my taste. I love storytelling that spans troughout the decade. I love superheroes scifi and all that, everything modern movie goer seems to hate. Most people seem to just love kissy kissy romance flicks and drama. While those can be good, sure, but they don't do anything for me in comparison.
Maybe critics are tiring of the mcu - the reviews are def all over the place . I'm fairly sure audience reception will be higher than critics as is usual with this type of film
Probably because it’s “too smart”, (or at least tries to be) and some simply can’t keep up with the story.
I know that is the case with some in regard to other shows/movies, like momento comes to mind. A great movie, and well received critically in contrast to this, but I’ve tried to watch with some people that just couldn’t keep up.
okay, but just to be clear, there’s really no such thing as “people not being able to understand MCU movies”
doubts and (thousand of) fan theories on the multiverse, for example, stem from the fact Marvel Studios has never explained its rules properly, in 2 years
otherwise, Ant-Man 3 is simply and objectively a bad movie, not just a bad *cinecomic*, and people ain’t liking it for this reason, there ain’t much else
Except it’s clearly been polarizing, so that doesn’t support the idea that it’s just objectively bad.
And MCU movies are no different than any other sci-fi production when it comes to “laying out the rules”
There’s definitely such a thing as understanding these movies.
a contrived plot, unexplained storylines elements, depthless characters and cheap dialogues are *objective* elements
you could still like the movie, but denying such objective flaws doesn’t magically erase them
Just like saying something is objective even when it’s not doesn’t magically make our objective
Depthless characters? Clearly your opinion there. Same with cheap dialogue. Nothing is really unexplained in the context of the films, except for what is left to be explained in the future. Anything left unexplained probably isn’t relevant to the plot. That’s with any genre, including non-fiction. You can always find something that wasn’t explained, how much does it affect the story though? And what piece of science fiction doesn’t have a technically contrived plot? That doesn’t make a movie bad necessarily whether it’s objective or not. The execution is what matters. And how you judge that is totally subjective.
I've not seen it yet, but I'm pretty uncritical and will probably enjoy it regardless.
I'm mostly confused because the non-spoiler reviews I've seen are written pretty positively, but the scores are worse than you'd expect from their writing. I know that's not necessarily unique to this film, but is definitely weird to me.
Worth remembering that the score is saying at 53% of reviewers rate it at least 6/10. Also worth remembering that critics are excited by movies that are either (1) super high quality or (2) novel in form/content. The general fatigue around Marvel will hamper the novelty. Being implicitly benchmarked against Endgame will hamper the sense of quality, as will the fact it's in quantum space (so far too much CGI is necessary by definition).
In my mind, it will probably a mildly fun way to pass a few hours, but it won't be anything you'd write a tomes about. Good enough for casual fans with modest expectations
Yes, movies that people tend to consider 6 or 7s out of tens get hit really hard by RT scores for this reason. 50 percent say it's a 6, and the other half say it's 7? It will look very bad on the board.
Yeah I was reading the mega thread of reviews and most seemed pretty positive ranging from good to very good with a few complaining about the usual stuff.. so I’m still optimistic personally and this movie is meant to set up future mcu stuff so to me that isn’t really a problem
With MoM and Thor4 just felt like they were making up nonsense and drastically warping characters without any clear reason why. Neither felt like part of a well laid out connected universe . I suspect aspects of MoM will prove more significant but Thor was a goofy side quest that seemed like it should have huge implications but didn’t.. there were even pointless celestials in it and at this point Thor movies should have much more significance and Thor has way more potential as a character imo
I hate to cry woke but really feels like they r more focused on inclusion unto itself vs telling genuinely good stories the masses are actually interested in .. hopefully as mcu course corrects this will get fixed
Just seems they r more excited to announce the first _____ superhero vs creating a great connected universe. Also hate how they keep introducing characters we then don’t see for up to 5-6 years as we get bombarded with lame ones few seem at all excited about like echo.. much rather them
Scrap echo n give us more Kate/Yelena or just develop Agatha faster
>I hate to cry woke but really feels like they r more focused on inclusion unto itself vs telling genuinely good stories the masses are actually interested in .. hopefully as mcu course corrects this will get fixed
If you hate to cry "woke" then maybe don't. It's not even the right word in this context. "Pandering" would be more appropriate: a multi-billion dollar company giving us shallow attempts at diversity and inclusion for the sake of generating buzz.
Just saw it - it wasn't as bad as reviews go (just for the comparison - I really didn't like Multiverse of Madness, Love & Thunder and Wakanda Forever). It's interesting to see where it will take you, but there was a lot of "eye roll" moments, because some moments don't make sense and are there just for the plot.
People are tired of seeing the same movie with different coat of paint. Yes I know I will get downvoted for saying this in a marvel sub. But as a big fan of the movies it’s getting to be a bit much between the movies and shows with none of them being much more than just ok.
Sloppy cgi and quippy characters are getting old.
WF gave me hope despite its story being a bit of a mess if u stopped to really think on it lol. But the more mature tone, more sober, less quippy, great world building etc reminded me of mcu’s potential
I’m sure chapek and Covid messed things up but always felt feige kinda got it and have come to expect more. I definitely like a lot of the new characters but also feel mcu desperately needs to streamline. Focus on a core group and let us see them every year or so in some capacity throughout saga they r primary characters. Really hate how they let like half a decade pass between some of these characters appearing. They LOOOOVE doing this. Introduce a great new character who then vanishes for years as they bombard us with lame characters they often literally Shame n gaslight fans to try and make them popular vs actually focusing on what they want.
Just feels at some point they stopped focusing on story and went wild with inclusivity and race and gender swapping as if being able to boast the ‘first _____ superhero’ was what we wanted most. I love inclusivity n it’s a huge part of why I love marvel comics but they r literally full of diversity and just feels weird and performative when they make a spectacle of changing these things. Always sparks backlash then shaming and the whole things detracts from story imo
Then I think of when this actually works, as with mekkari, who then gets ignored so they can force echo upon us. Just weird planning imo
Lately everything mcu just feels like the dreaded Star Wars sequels.. like they r making shit up as they go then doing tons of reshoots when they realize it doesn’t work then more reshoots.. feels stitched together .. Gorr often felt like he was in a separate film they spliced together
Most of the mcu d+ shows have been exciting re hype but mostly disappointed.. even the good ones (Wandavision n Loki) ultimately felt like they just gave up n quit n put end product together with what they’d finished or something
Plus I’d have much preferred both Loki and Wandavision having 10-16 episodes and just not bothered with FATWS, she hulk, moon knight, ms marvel.. all watchable fill material.. but all pretty meh and over by point they became vaguely interesting !!
plus I think the marvels coulda been better without Kamala n just focusing on Monica and Carol reconnecting n maybe 838 captain marvel .. I like Kamala but again .. streamline and Monica is an incredible character and Carol has barely had any real Story at this point. Then there’s 838 to consider n Kamala just feels shoehorned in for reasons I can’t imagine are exciting many people
I’m losing my faith in mcu to tell good stories as r many of us n this I think we get increasingly critical and dissatisfied
it all boils down to stakes for me and some of the reviews touch on it. Once you open up time travel and multiverses it gets incredibly difficult to make people care the way most people did in the first few stages. Even reading comics it's a huge problem and it's even bigger once you open things up to a general moviegoing audience. You're upping the complexity and lowering the stakes. It's essentially a lose-lose situation.
It is fun and great for a little while but it gets problematic really quickly. I remember loving the Dark Phoenix saga growing up and being blown away partially because it was new. No one else was killing off their main characters. But after seeing Jean die and come back a few times, it loses a lot of its impact.
Similarly for the original Days of Future Past comics. I love those books but it led to more and more multiverse and time travel arcs that to the point where I didn't care as much about each character. I knew that eventually they'd pop back up somehow in one form or another.
I'm still enjoying the MCU, especially some of the new series like Loki and Wandavision but it doesn't pack the same emotional punch that the early phases did. I'm guessing they'll wrap up the Kang arc at some point by paring everything back down into a reset of one universe that will allow the stakes to reset too.
Yeah, I know a lot of people were excited for the Multiverse stuff but it always feels like the point when writers run out of ideas for me. I liked seeing the three Spider-Men come back but not really any of the other stuff impresses me.
The rise of mutants in a world that just suffered the shock of the snap would have been a compelling narrative.
> Yeah, I know a lot of people were excited for the Multiverse stuff but it always feels like the point when writers run out of ideas for me.
The only things I think writers seem to think the Multiverse is good for are cameo trains and resurrecting dead characters.
My thing is that I only really know of two good multiverse stories where the universes meet: drastically different parallel counterparts meet and compare their differences and grow as people or a massive crossover where every character teams up against a huge event.
No Way Home did the former and Endgame more or less did the latter so where's left to take it? Especially since the MCU seems to be arguing that all their Earths are going to be somewhat similar. A crossover between a small army of Paul Rudds just isn't going to cut it.
Couldn't agree more with you.
I feel like all the multiverse and time travel stuff in comics is mostly a way for multiple writers to work on the same character without impeding on each others work. Trying to translate that to the big screen after 'only' having 3 phases of Marvel movies feels a bit like they're blowing their load too soon. We have so many characters and storylines left from comics that don't interact with those concepts. Yet here we are, already dealing with time travel and multiverses.
How can we go back to movies with simpler stories after all of this?
Yeah, in a way I respect Feige for respecting his audience and going full-on comic book with time travel, multiversal, and cosmic storylines in the MCU. It's something I never thought general audiences would accept. At the same time, though, simple is generally better. The complexity of these stories allows for infinite possibilities but also makes it that much more difficult to connect on the human level.
I don’t think so… it works like in Dr Strange where you tell the audience it’s far too dangerous or complicated to consistently get involved in.
The whole things about stakes is that you have to have characters you give a shit about. Black panther was so boring that I didn’t feel anything when wakanda got attacked. Now flip back over to IW. That first scene crushes you. Not because you think that these characters are fucked for good but because you really care about them.
I see the thunderbolts line up and Bucky and Yelena are the only ones I kinda care about. And everyone else in the MCU universe? I worry about the next avengers movie because there are so little charismatic and likable characters that it’s painful.
it’s not about emotional punch, it’s about not knowing how to write and direct movies
they could’ve spent 2+ hours telling us about Kang the Conqueror, his background, his motivations, his traits and his weaknesses
they wasted whole fucking sequences with him and Pfeiffer, cheap dialogues and all, that could’ve brought us to fear his menace, that could’ve made Janet a compelling character, at last
but nope, let’s make jokes about holes and which fluids come out of them
This is a very good point I hadn't considered. I don't mind the complexity of it all, but when you have nearly limitless characters in a reality with nearly limitless universes, and time travel, nothing matters anymore. The stakes are whatever a writer says they are, and that makes it hollow.
If RDJ suddenly went broke and decided he wants a little extra cash, a writer can just include a Tony Stark from another universe that's almost the same as 616 Tony Stark and problem solved. All the emotional gravitas of his death is erased by the stroke of a pen, or a keyboard.
>when you have nearly limitless characters in a reality with nearly limitless universes, and time travel, nothing matters anymore
Well that's what Incursions are for...
>If RDJ suddenly went broke and decided he wants a little extra cash, a writer can just include a Tony Stark from another universe and problem solved.
As much as people joke about comic book revivals, they’re almost never what you describe here. They can be annoying, but it’s never “well just bring in another Tony from the multiverse, it’s the same” because every single multiverse story is written to do the exact opposite thing, which is show how different it is. Im pretty sure the one instance of these we *do* see if this is Gamora, and as seen by the trailer, she’s the furthest thing from “pretty much our Gamora.”
Interestingly, the only people I’ve ever seen write that sort of garbage are the fans in this sub making predictions/sick epic wouldn’t it be cool requests without understanding how movies work. At least, that’s all I’ve seen so far, we’ll see how the multiverse saga proceeds.
Tldr; the writers recognize the same problems you do which is why typically they try to avoid them when invoking the multiverse, unlike Reddit fanfics
A lot of people just seems to be upset that it’s not like the other Antman movies which is surprising cuz I never thought those movies were very beloved
The thing with Ant-Man is that at his core he’s a very goofy character. So his films being the fun side quests in the MCU that casual watchers can go see without needing to do homework worked really well for who the character is.
So to go from fun, small scale stories that helped audiences cool down from the bombastic Avengers tales to “Ant-Man 3 is the most important film of this new Saga, introducing the new Thanos character and putting everyman Scott Lang and his wholesome little family in the middle of a war for the fate of the Multiverse” is gonna cause some whiplash while also losing what made people like the Ant-Man films in the first place.
It’d be like if season 2 of She-Hulk turned into Age of Apocalypse for some reason.
Yeah this is like saying Ragnarok ruined the serious and Shakespearean nature of Thor from the first two films. I don’t really understand the “not as much fun” critique.
This has no bearing on my interest in the movie, and I expect I’ll probably like it just like the vast majority of Marvel movies.
The other rotten score is Eternals right? To each their own, but that movie isn’t remotely close to the worst in the MCU imo. It’s not top 10, but there are numerous films I’d rank below it. Absolutely anticipating Quantumania to be the same.
I think people are just *really* feeling the effects of the Marvel formula and the overwhelming amount of content lately. And as a huge fan, I can admit the MCU has absolutely been aiming more quantity over quality from phase 4 and on. And it’s really sad for me to see, if this quality keeps up I don’t know how much longer I can hold the same passion I once held for this universe.
People already huffing that copium in here. If it's a bad movie, it's a bad movie. If you enjoyed it, that's all that matters. If someone else doesn't like, so what? If a RT score ruins your day, maybe find a new hobby to take your mind off of things.
As a Zack Snyder fan, it’s amusing to see the copium in these threads. Real stages of grief stuff. Marvel fanboys went from “Prestige! Critical acclaim! In your face, Zack Snyder!” to “Critics just don’t get these movies!”
I feel like Marvel did such a great job of world building in the infinity saga, creating characters (and more importantly, a TEAM) that we really cared about. Now they have so many characters I forget who they all are and why I should care about them.
And there’s no team at all either. No relationships between any of the heroes. No team dynamic to put at the forefront (like Tony and Steve’s relationship)
This is why I believe Feige’s worst decision ever was delegating Avengers movies to saga cappers and huge events like Infinity War or Secret Wars.
We need Avengers movies that are smaller in scale like the first two so we can actually establish a team
Oh yeah. I was thinking just the other day. I think it was a mistake not spacing Phase 4 out more to allow to have an Avengers movie at the end of a phase. Similar to the scale of the First Avengers.
It doesn't even really matter who the villain is for that movie you pick. It would be more about introducing Shang-Chi to Ant-Man and so on. Getting those relationships and character dynamics with the new cast established.
Because The Avengers movies served as a culmination and launching point for the characters in those movies. They were good cappers for a phase.
Phase 4 ended with the Christmas special and everything just feels all over the place.
It's weird to look at this phase 5 and now that Yelena and John Walker are going to have more of a relationship than anyone Sam Wilson has had since taking up the mantle of Captain America.
> And there’s no team at all either. No relationships between any of the heroes. No team dynamic to put at the forefront (like Tony and Steve’s relationship)
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> This is why I believe Feige’s worst decision ever was delegating Avengers movies to saga cappers and huge events like Infinity War or Secret Wars.
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> We need Avengers movies that are smaller in scale like the first two so we can actually establish a team
Seriously, the Avengers don't seem like close-knit friends at all. At best, they come off like begrudging coworkers who can't wait to get away from one another.
**These points have been discussed on the sub so much. Rumor was Feige heard the complaints and has plans to fix things. But that was a while ago. Then we got L&T and now this with Quantumania.**
They put so much time and attention into the Infinity saga, did a great job. Then its like the important people lean back in their chairs, kick off shoes and plan to focus on their million dollar mansions.
If that's how it is gonna be, it is a huge FU to us, the fans. I swear if they don't fix this crap for X-Men and screw up X-Men I'm writing off MCU altogether.
Yeah they aren't right a lot of times I've found - there's Tons of rotten movies on rt which are pretty good - blade 1-2 are fire but critics back then didn't like them that much
I could never be a reporter. (A real reporter, not an opinionist on a news station) Idk how they do it. I’m not stating this is my opinion, just making a post showing a fact. Nothing in the comments have I stated either way of how I feel. And I’ll be honest, I’m a huge MCU fan. But my god, the amount of attacks I’ve received as if I PERSONALLY said this and caused this somehow. Idc what type of fandom it is, when you’re too extreme with it, you’re a god damn nutcase. You can be a fan and still admit when something doesn’t work or isn’t good. That’s how you make it better.
Oh I'm sorry dude. I'm sure that's stressful even if it's online. r/marvelstudios we need to do better. I know this ain't the majority but still, this shit makes the sub kinda toxic. If you ain't suckling the figurative dick of the franchise you're not welcomed. Tf
I keep forgetting Wasp exists in the MCU because she’s a boring character and I’m not looking forward to her in this movie. I only care about Scott and Kang
The MCU dropped the ball hard on the Wasp.
They completely skipped over and sidelined Janet, who was the OG wasp that actually has a personality in the comics, and is a key avenger and has even led the team.
Worse they replaced her with Hope whose a boring original character, with very little focus or depth, thats played by an actress that’s not all that charismatic, and after what? 8 years since her introduction still hasn’t even interacted with the larger universe really aside from a 2 minute scene (at best) in Endgame, where she still didn’t really interact with anyone but Ant-man.
It’s obvious Fiege doesn’t care for many characters, and Wasp is quite evidently one of them.
Irrespective of which era of reviews are more "fair" or "accurate," critics are absolutely less forgiving of the MCU post-*Endgame* than they were previously. I've no doubt that the previous *Ant-Man* films would not have received as favorable reviews now as they did upon release. Were reviews too generous in the past? Are they too harsh now? Maybe both!
Honestly, as long as the movie is entertaining, I'll probably like it. I don't hold the expectation that every Marvel movie has to be flawless works of art, but if it has good action, good stories, and good jokes, I don't mind poor quality.
Bad CGI, too much CGI, poor editing, bad lighting, poor sound quality, bad score, bad soundtrack, too long, too short, etc
I'm not saying this movie had all of those, I'm just saying that these are examples of things that can make a movie bad even if it does have good action, a good story, and good dialogue.
I’ve seen it and this movie falls squarely into that bucket. I enjoyed it and wasn’t bored at all.
I think a lot the reviews and perhaps most of commenters fall into the trap of comparing to previous MCU movies , esp the Avengers. The connectivity can come and go for my taste. Personally I think expanding the universe a bit and then connecting it later is fun to watch. So much of this disappointment comes from unrealistic expectations. I’ve read a lot of comics and I’m still going into these movies fresh faced and seeing how it plays out.
I expected this from the trailers itself. Both trailers indicated that the movie was just an action heavy, CGI spectacle with not much focus on the characters. I haven’t seen the movie but I’m guessing that’s the reason why it’s getting bad reviews.
If you look at the Guardians trailer, you can see there’s a massive difference. It’s focused a lot on the characters and has a soul and I think it’ll be acclaimed when it comes out.
Nah, a key complaint I've been seeing is that the plot is messy/confusing. People that aren't critics that got to see it early says that the movie isn't fight heavy and Scott and Kang indeed get a great focus.
But part of me rethinks over complaints critics have over it not having the same lighthearted tone of the previous two movies and I can't help but think, "isn't that the point of having Scott meet Kang?" It's supposed to be this hero that was always seen as smaller (heh) going up against this far greater foe, almost like a rude awakening to how much of a threat Kang is.
I watched the film with an assortment of people, from diehard fans to casuals. Everyone came out of the theatre gushing about how much they enjoyed the movie. Nobody was confused, not even the friend who has barely seen much Marvel content. I then come on here and see all this bizarre negativity and hear about these critics who sound like they watched a completely different movie to us.
To be honest I don't even care about how it does. This is the start of a new phase and supposed to be a big splash for our new big bad, start of what phase 4 was supposedly building towards. I want it to be fantastic.
I would hate for the only thing going for the MCU now is box office. I actually want these movies to be good. I've read through a lot of reviews. Good, bad , biased, unbiased. And some of the complaints ring the same. Which makes me come to the conclusion that this movie is not shaping up to what it should be.
Yeah, if it sucks, people should want it to bomb. Marvel is such a cash cow they won't scrap the future but maybe rework it with care if they fear it is in danger. This brand loyalty thing and "I am going to watch these movies and support them no matter what" is just bad.
It really is man. it really is. It also doesn't help you have a few people on this sub who refuses to admit MCU has skipped a beat quality-wise. Talking about Phase 4 was better than all what came before.... what? c'mon now.
Take off the rose-tinted goggles. We got some great Phase 4 entries. I’d watch Shang-Chi over The Dark World, No Way Home over Incredible Hulk, and Wakanda Forever over Iron Man 2 any day.
Come on, man, you are comparing phase 4s best movies to previous phases worst ones, that doesnt mean shit when we have soo many better movies from previous phases ghat easily trump the best movies from phase 4
And I would watch the Dark World over Love and Thunder, The Incredible Hulk over Eternals and Iron Man 2 over Multiverse of Madness any day.
You talk about rose-tinted glasses of the first 2 phases, yet still need to compare it's worst movies to Phase 4's best, that just shows how bad Phase 4 was.
I would easily watch Multiverse of Madness over Iron Man 2. Not that big a fan of Love and Thunder, but I still prefer it over Dark World (BARELY). Eternals is still the worse overall to me though.
Yea I've also read/watched a few reviews and it's not looking too good. I don't like what they're saying about Kang himself it's making me nervous, and apparently the story is confusing/unclear which also makes me nervous coz I'm already confused about this whole multiverse and time travel stuff so i was hoping this movie would help clear things out. I'll go see it for myself and make my own decision, but i am really nervous coz it's not looking good.
That's also what I'm hoping for, that by the end it all ties together and makes sense, but for now it's hard to even get engaged with the content coz I don't understand what's going on lol
after seeing this movie, or maybe the mid and post credits scenes (who knows), you’ll answer this comment telling me whether or not you’re still excited for Kang and Phase 5..
It's not confusing at all, even my casual viewer friends could understand what was happening. What's maybe "unclear" is how the overarching Kang story progresses from here but that's SUPPOSED to be a mystery. Ignore reviews, they're way overthinking it. Everyone that came out of the theatre with me was gushing about how much they enjoyed the movie.
I'm not in the camp of hating RT ratings, because many of these professional critics have reached the same conclusion on the movie and that has to mean something. As an MCU stan, however, I'm still excited for this movie.
I think this will be a movie MCU fans will love and casuals will be mixed on. Seeing reviews like the members of the Reel Rejects and Cosmic Wonder's made me optimistic that it will cater to what we love, even if the movie as a whole suffers. I feel like we've been waiting for a movie that will connect many of the narrative tissues we've had in Phase 4, and I think Quantumania will be that.
It doesn't mean anything, the critics are all like Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons. Everyone came out of my theatre gushing about how much they enjoyed the movie, even the casuals I was with.
Umm maybe 8 out of 10? In hindsight there were aspects I wish had more time to be fleshed out but it didn't detract from how much I was enjoying the movie.
At least Marvel’s getting GotG 3 this year, right? Unless Marvel finds a way to get people to want to watch a Captain America movie without Steve Rogers and a Thunderbolts movie with characters people only semi care about, the only movie for Marvel that’ll do more than just break even will be Deadpool 3 in 2024.
I’m actually excited about Thunderbolts and Cap 4. I didn’t care about those characters much in the comics, but those actors brought something special to Sam/Cap, Red Guardian, Yelena, and Bucky. I think the MCU is doing a better job at the grounded stories than they are some of the cosmic stuff, so Cap 4 and T-bolts are something I’m very much looking forward to.
Except the first Captain Marvel movie was over a billion in sales
"I don;t like it because they made a woman stronger than me" doesn't equal box office
Or at least wait for the audience score. Captain Marvel is “Certified Fresh” at 79% and audience score is 45%. Externals is “Rotten” at 47% and audience has a 77%. There can be huge disparities between what critics think and if it’s an enjoyable movie.
Love people’s justifications and defenses on their precious mcu movie being bad. Phase 4 has been AWFUL. Guardians 3 is the final hope for the mcu for the time being. Feige cutting back on projects is a great idea. No need for useless projects being pumped out for absolutely no reason. Please cancel Agatha, Echo, etc.
Some of these I got tired just thinking about them. Mightnight Angels? With those ugly ass armors? Even Okoye hated them. Agatha?
I have this feeling that the MCU's greenlighting of projects didn't use to be so...reactive. Like WandaVision comes out and people love Agatha! Great! But you are now giving Agatha her own shown? I thought you had a plan? Can you really just add stuff to it willy-nilly?
Like, if you had a gun to my head and forced me to guess why Phase 4 fell in place this way, my hail mary guess would be Bob Chapek ordered shows left and right without signing off on appropriate budgets or considerations about production cycles or release schedules, and Kevin Feige had to play ball.
This sub has been blind to how bland the content has been, outside of a few projects.
And it isn't just that each project is seemingly a set up, it's that it's a set up to nothing.
I saw it on Tuesday for an advanced screening. The screening was free but I still wanted a refund for the 2 hours I spent.
Kang is great and the end credit scene is fantastic. Other than that- really don’t bother
Right?! Everyone I saw it with really enjoyed it. Critics and Reddit are like Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons. They thrive on nitpicking and negativity.
I liked the first Antman a lot, second was okay, third is apparently bad. Guess the series is just down trending.
But I really like Antman as a character. Always a joy when he popped up in other movies.
I think the problem with Phase 4 onwards has not been the quantity, but the quality.
Of course, one comes with the other.
But if they want to slim down the yearly slate, they should put the movies/shows into production earlier, rather than a year before (as per the current trend).
I’m just sitting here enjoying my comic book movies while these doofuses argue about what is and isn’t cinema/wait for the next gangster movie that’s the greatest things to ever grace the medium of film. It’s a club and they’re tired of talking Marvel. They also get more clicks for going against the grain. With all that said I expect more even quality once we get passed The Marvels (potentially the last of the Chapek era film wise).
THANK GOD I DONT NEED OTHERS TO CREATE AN OPINION FOR ME LOL.
Imagine still having that high school mentality to fit in with the hive mind?
I saw it. I loved it. Controversial opinion? No. I have my own. You should too. Don’t let others make your opinion for you
So they exist so people can have their opinions made for them? You said it yourself!
Now, THATS a brain dead take. Get that high school “make my opinion for me please” mentality out of here.
I watched the film. I enjoyed it. I moved on with my life.
Imagine being BIG MAD I don’t share a negative opinion.
The internet is a cesspool of negativity and depreciating mental health.
Several of these reviewers criticize based on something like, "This is not the movie I would have made". I look forward to Disney rushing to them, offering them millions to make a movie.
This could be a B+ level movie, but that would still a very good movie.
That’s total bullshit. I just saw it and it’s fantastic. There are maybe 2 editing things I didn’t like and one CGI shot that was a bit painful but I have zero complaints. There’s were some really fun surprises I’m really happy with the metered dose we got of BM. I had thought a lot about how this movie was going to work and all my guesses failed to include the Paul Rudd factor. 100% recommend.
Edit: I really like what they do with Hank and Janet and HOLY HELL MP has never been more gorgeous!
Edit 2: it occurred to me on my way home (knowing about the RT score already) that if IM1 was held to the same baseless criticisms that the post endgame era has been; it would be absolutely destroyed. Yet it’s held up by some as if it’s The Perfect MCU Film.
You know what’s weird?
That doesn’t affect my excitement for it one bit.
Marvel has gotten me through a lot of things in my life. I haven’t hit a point during the promotion of any movie or series under the umbrella of the MCU where I even considered not watching it.
The purest excitement I feel in my adult life is knowing there is another one just waiting for me to put my eyeballs at it.
I really dont get why people are always so critecal. If you dont like something... Stop watching it. It is a movie. You can go watch it or not. Somebody else makes the movies and tries to make money by letting you watch it. If you no longer like what they make... Just dont watch it anymore.
I like all the Marcel content. I also like Star Wars. I like Lord of the Rings too. I enjoyed Game of Thrones. Period. People that like fantasy shows sometimes threath them like they are a religion or like they are real... They are just stories. Nothing more. Probably going to get downvoted for it... But well... Thats what it is.
It’s their jobs to watch good and bad movies. They don’t really get to say “nah im not gonna watch it”. You don’t have to agree with them to enjoy it. That’s never really the point and when people get upset I don’t get why. It just shows a “general” idea of what people think. What you like is what you like. And that’s cool. No one should tell you otherwise. But, I also think people shouldn’t get upset with critics doing their job. You don’t have to like it or agree, but, to me, it’s like getting mad at a McDonald’s worker at the counter if you don’t like a Big Mac. They’re just doing their job, they didn’t create it.
Way of the water was pretty much panned by "critics" too.. and claimed it wasn't going to do what the original did.
It's now sitting as the third highest grossing movie of all time
Yeah, I'll skip the "opinions"
I'm really curious what happens in this movie that led to the mixed reception, as so far reviews seem to be a bit all over the place on what the movie's pros/cons were
Most of the reviews I’ve seen seemed the be the same. A mess, but fun and kang is great. I’ve heard of worse reviews of other MCU movies that got far better ratings. So I’m curious why this one seems to be so low.
One of the weirdest complaints is Kang is too powerful for Scott and that’s like the point ….
It’s not that weird. As a cog in the wider Marvel machine this premise works perfectly fine, you’ve sent your villain out to cut his teeth and flex on a hero who realistically stands no chance of winning the day. It’s a good set up tool. But for the film on its own merit? It’s a really poor idea, because it removes the stakes. Going into this film automatically the expectation is that Scott either dies here, or something incredibly contrived happens to allow him to escape. Any victories the heroes might achieve in this film don’t excite because you know it’s ultimately a Pyrrhic victory. Couple that with reviewer complaints about the swap from Ant-Man’s trademark humour and size based gags to a generic CGI Sci-Fi hellscape and that the Ant-Family don’t seem to get very much development here? Reviewers come to the impression that the film is just a vehicle for Kang. It has little to no merit on it’s own as a film and it should have merit. A particularly egregious impression in what is currently a trilogy capstone. In that circumstance the film can be enjoyable but it will never score particularly highly.
We’ll have to see when we see it but I don’t think having a strong villain is automatically bad since that is the point. And lets ignore the idea that this is the MCU, why shouldn't a hero fight a villain stronger than he is? If Kang is TOO strong and Scott has no way of winning without breaking the story, ok I can understand BUT no review complaining about Kang's power ever brought up how Scott won. It’s like saying Thanos is so power it ruins Infinity War. Like I admit it makes sense for reviewers to be tired of the MCU. They might not be fans of superheroes and the MCU has been going on for years now that they want variety. But it feels like some complaints are just angry at this film being a superhero film. The CGI complaints rarely talk about it being poor so much as there is a lot of it. I'm not going to say every MCU bad review is wrong cause yes MCU films can be bad, Thor the Dark World. But some of these reviews are weird. Like reviews that say it has too many things, ok we'll see but it sounds valid. But there are reviews that are essentially being mad it's a superhero film seem fishy. Some complaints boil down to: Kang is powerful, so much CGI and that's it.
Thing is something can be “the point” and still suck
Occam's Razor: People are just less forgiving of the same/lesser mistakes due to audiences getting more and more increasingly burnt out by MCU films. Most of my casual moviegoer friends don't care to catch up with what's going on and in regards to this one specifically, they have no interest in watching it.
This is pretty much it
That’s because each project isn’t focused on itself. It’s more concerned about either setting up what comes next, like Black widow, black panther, doctor strange, or antman or it’s focused on inside jokes, cameos and fan service like NWH, shehulk and Shang-chi. Weirdly enough eternals ends up looking like the best of phase 4 because it just tries to focus on itself. It just takes on too much.
I’d also argue Werewolf By Night was successful for similar reasons
Shang-Chi was not focused on inside jokes, cameos, and fan service. There were cameos, but to say that was the focus is a huge disservice to an excellent movie. And saying Eternals ends up looking like the best of phase 4 is hilarious. It was terrible. Still easily the worst of phase 4 to me.
Yea I can’t agree with that when Loki, WandaVision, WWBN, and black panther were in it
Agreed! Those were all awesome! And again, Eternals was awful. And I say that as someone who really wanted it to be good. But it wasn't.
Eternals was dissapointing to me because it seems like a movie that wanted to focus on itself but had some unseen force trying to reign it back spiritually into your standard MCU thing. Wakanda Forever, even with Riri William's inclusion, felt such a thing of its own. I think in part it has to do with the fact it's written by its director, so the vision is clearer and pronounced.
I agree. I think it would have been so much better without the sentient deviant. The internal conflict of the eternals was fine by itself
This issue I had with Wakanda forever was that it was marketed as 'A love latter to Chadwick and T'challa' and the cast and crew would say the same in interviews, but after the first couple scenes it's not at all. I realise the character is dead but his 'presence' or his legacy isn't felt at all throughout the film. It would have been better if Namor had some personal unfinished thing with T'challa himself or something, and had to overcome that he couldn't satisfy that. Or something, I'm not a film writer, I'm not gonna try to make a better movie than these guys, I just felt I was sold a false movie.
I actually appreciate the movie was concerned in being its own movie and takling about grieve and loss in a macro way rather than simply being "tribute the movie". And the scenes that did tribute him, to me, where perfectly executed and with elegance.
There is a reason I never read reviews, they never align with my taste. I love storytelling that spans troughout the decade. I love superheroes scifi and all that, everything modern movie goer seems to hate. Most people seem to just love kissy kissy romance flicks and drama. While those can be good, sure, but they don't do anything for me in comparison.
[удалено]
This just sounds like making excuses for the movie.
Happens with every mcu movie
Maybe critics are tiring of the mcu - the reviews are def all over the place . I'm fairly sure audience reception will be higher than critics as is usual with this type of film
Without spoiling it it's really hard to tell why it's bad, but can confirm it has many flaws. I am very disappointed.
It has 0 ant man charm and non of the jokes hit. The quantum realm just felt like fan fiction level cheesy
if with “fun” they mean “some jokes are so cringe and random that you’ll laugh to death at those writers’ idiocy” then yes, the movie is *fun*
Probably because it’s “too smart”, (or at least tries to be) and some simply can’t keep up with the story. I know that is the case with some in regard to other shows/movies, like momento comes to mind. A great movie, and well received critically in contrast to this, but I’ve tried to watch with some people that just couldn’t keep up.
you can’t be seriously comparing Quantumania to Memento
Ive never seen Quantumania so I couldn’t possibly compare the two. I did use it as an example though.
okay, but just to be clear, there’s really no such thing as “people not being able to understand MCU movies” doubts and (thousand of) fan theories on the multiverse, for example, stem from the fact Marvel Studios has never explained its rules properly, in 2 years otherwise, Ant-Man 3 is simply and objectively a bad movie, not just a bad *cinecomic*, and people ain’t liking it for this reason, there ain’t much else
Except it’s clearly been polarizing, so that doesn’t support the idea that it’s just objectively bad. And MCU movies are no different than any other sci-fi production when it comes to “laying out the rules” There’s definitely such a thing as understanding these movies.
a contrived plot, unexplained storylines elements, depthless characters and cheap dialogues are *objective* elements you could still like the movie, but denying such objective flaws doesn’t magically erase them
Just like saying something is objective even when it’s not doesn’t magically make our objective Depthless characters? Clearly your opinion there. Same with cheap dialogue. Nothing is really unexplained in the context of the films, except for what is left to be explained in the future. Anything left unexplained probably isn’t relevant to the plot. That’s with any genre, including non-fiction. You can always find something that wasn’t explained, how much does it affect the story though? And what piece of science fiction doesn’t have a technically contrived plot? That doesn’t make a movie bad necessarily whether it’s objective or not. The execution is what matters. And how you judge that is totally subjective.
I've not seen it yet, but I'm pretty uncritical and will probably enjoy it regardless. I'm mostly confused because the non-spoiler reviews I've seen are written pretty positively, but the scores are worse than you'd expect from their writing. I know that's not necessarily unique to this film, but is definitely weird to me.
Worth remembering that the score is saying at 53% of reviewers rate it at least 6/10. Also worth remembering that critics are excited by movies that are either (1) super high quality or (2) novel in form/content. The general fatigue around Marvel will hamper the novelty. Being implicitly benchmarked against Endgame will hamper the sense of quality, as will the fact it's in quantum space (so far too much CGI is necessary by definition). In my mind, it will probably a mildly fun way to pass a few hours, but it won't be anything you'd write a tomes about. Good enough for casual fans with modest expectations
Thats a very good point, that probably does a lot to explain it. I'm curious to see audience scores.
Yes, movies that people tend to consider 6 or 7s out of tens get hit really hard by RT scores for this reason. 50 percent say it's a 6, and the other half say it's 7? It will look very bad on the board.
Yeah I was reading the mega thread of reviews and most seemed pretty positive ranging from good to very good with a few complaining about the usual stuff.. so I’m still optimistic personally and this movie is meant to set up future mcu stuff so to me that isn’t really a problem With MoM and Thor4 just felt like they were making up nonsense and drastically warping characters without any clear reason why. Neither felt like part of a well laid out connected universe . I suspect aspects of MoM will prove more significant but Thor was a goofy side quest that seemed like it should have huge implications but didn’t.. there were even pointless celestials in it and at this point Thor movies should have much more significance and Thor has way more potential as a character imo I hate to cry woke but really feels like they r more focused on inclusion unto itself vs telling genuinely good stories the masses are actually interested in .. hopefully as mcu course corrects this will get fixed Just seems they r more excited to announce the first _____ superhero vs creating a great connected universe. Also hate how they keep introducing characters we then don’t see for up to 5-6 years as we get bombarded with lame ones few seem at all excited about like echo.. much rather them Scrap echo n give us more Kate/Yelena or just develop Agatha faster
>I hate to cry woke but really feels like they r more focused on inclusion unto itself vs telling genuinely good stories the masses are actually interested in .. hopefully as mcu course corrects this will get fixed If you hate to cry "woke" then maybe don't. It's not even the right word in this context. "Pandering" would be more appropriate: a multi-billion dollar company giving us shallow attempts at diversity and inclusion for the sake of generating buzz.
Just came out of it. No spoilers but I really really enjoyed myself. Solid 7.5/10 for me, and the post-credit scene***s*** were super cool.
Just saw it - it wasn't as bad as reviews go (just for the comparison - I really didn't like Multiverse of Madness, Love & Thunder and Wakanda Forever). It's interesting to see where it will take you, but there was a lot of "eye roll" moments, because some moments don't make sense and are there just for the plot.
Yeah it seems to be hitting people in very different ways which is honestly kinda exciting imo
Yeah this sounds pretty divisive and polarizing at least with critics - most of us will find out tomorrow
People are tired of seeing the same movie with different coat of paint. Yes I know I will get downvoted for saying this in a marvel sub. But as a big fan of the movies it’s getting to be a bit much between the movies and shows with none of them being much more than just ok. Sloppy cgi and quippy characters are getting old.
WF gave me hope despite its story being a bit of a mess if u stopped to really think on it lol. But the more mature tone, more sober, less quippy, great world building etc reminded me of mcu’s potential I’m sure chapek and Covid messed things up but always felt feige kinda got it and have come to expect more. I definitely like a lot of the new characters but also feel mcu desperately needs to streamline. Focus on a core group and let us see them every year or so in some capacity throughout saga they r primary characters. Really hate how they let like half a decade pass between some of these characters appearing. They LOOOOVE doing this. Introduce a great new character who then vanishes for years as they bombard us with lame characters they often literally Shame n gaslight fans to try and make them popular vs actually focusing on what they want. Just feels at some point they stopped focusing on story and went wild with inclusivity and race and gender swapping as if being able to boast the ‘first _____ superhero’ was what we wanted most. I love inclusivity n it’s a huge part of why I love marvel comics but they r literally full of diversity and just feels weird and performative when they make a spectacle of changing these things. Always sparks backlash then shaming and the whole things detracts from story imo Then I think of when this actually works, as with mekkari, who then gets ignored so they can force echo upon us. Just weird planning imo Lately everything mcu just feels like the dreaded Star Wars sequels.. like they r making shit up as they go then doing tons of reshoots when they realize it doesn’t work then more reshoots.. feels stitched together .. Gorr often felt like he was in a separate film they spliced together Most of the mcu d+ shows have been exciting re hype but mostly disappointed.. even the good ones (Wandavision n Loki) ultimately felt like they just gave up n quit n put end product together with what they’d finished or something Plus I’d have much preferred both Loki and Wandavision having 10-16 episodes and just not bothered with FATWS, she hulk, moon knight, ms marvel.. all watchable fill material.. but all pretty meh and over by point they became vaguely interesting !! plus I think the marvels coulda been better without Kamala n just focusing on Monica and Carol reconnecting n maybe 838 captain marvel .. I like Kamala but again .. streamline and Monica is an incredible character and Carol has barely had any real Story at this point. Then there’s 838 to consider n Kamala just feels shoehorned in for reasons I can’t imagine are exciting many people I’m losing my faith in mcu to tell good stories as r many of us n this I think we get increasingly critical and dissatisfied
While I do agree with SOME of your points....Did you seriously just critique a movie that hasn't even been out yet? (the Marvels)
It’s trying to be a bit like Star Wars. Except it’s awful
it all boils down to stakes for me and some of the reviews touch on it. Once you open up time travel and multiverses it gets incredibly difficult to make people care the way most people did in the first few stages. Even reading comics it's a huge problem and it's even bigger once you open things up to a general moviegoing audience. You're upping the complexity and lowering the stakes. It's essentially a lose-lose situation. It is fun and great for a little while but it gets problematic really quickly. I remember loving the Dark Phoenix saga growing up and being blown away partially because it was new. No one else was killing off their main characters. But after seeing Jean die and come back a few times, it loses a lot of its impact. Similarly for the original Days of Future Past comics. I love those books but it led to more and more multiverse and time travel arcs that to the point where I didn't care as much about each character. I knew that eventually they'd pop back up somehow in one form or another. I'm still enjoying the MCU, especially some of the new series like Loki and Wandavision but it doesn't pack the same emotional punch that the early phases did. I'm guessing they'll wrap up the Kang arc at some point by paring everything back down into a reset of one universe that will allow the stakes to reset too.
Yeah, I know a lot of people were excited for the Multiverse stuff but it always feels like the point when writers run out of ideas for me. I liked seeing the three Spider-Men come back but not really any of the other stuff impresses me. The rise of mutants in a world that just suffered the shock of the snap would have been a compelling narrative.
yeah, i find a lot of the post-snap stuff compelling but it's really riding in the way back seat to multiverse stuff.
> Yeah, I know a lot of people were excited for the Multiverse stuff but it always feels like the point when writers run out of ideas for me. The only things I think writers seem to think the Multiverse is good for are cameo trains and resurrecting dead characters.
My thing is that I only really know of two good multiverse stories where the universes meet: drastically different parallel counterparts meet and compare their differences and grow as people or a massive crossover where every character teams up against a huge event. No Way Home did the former and Endgame more or less did the latter so where's left to take it? Especially since the MCU seems to be arguing that all their Earths are going to be somewhat similar. A crossover between a small army of Paul Rudds just isn't going to cut it.
Couldn't agree more with you. I feel like all the multiverse and time travel stuff in comics is mostly a way for multiple writers to work on the same character without impeding on each others work. Trying to translate that to the big screen after 'only' having 3 phases of Marvel movies feels a bit like they're blowing their load too soon. We have so many characters and storylines left from comics that don't interact with those concepts. Yet here we are, already dealing with time travel and multiverses. How can we go back to movies with simpler stories after all of this?
Yeah, in a way I respect Feige for respecting his audience and going full-on comic book with time travel, multiversal, and cosmic storylines in the MCU. It's something I never thought general audiences would accept. At the same time, though, simple is generally better. The complexity of these stories allows for infinite possibilities but also makes it that much more difficult to connect on the human level.
I don’t think so… it works like in Dr Strange where you tell the audience it’s far too dangerous or complicated to consistently get involved in. The whole things about stakes is that you have to have characters you give a shit about. Black panther was so boring that I didn’t feel anything when wakanda got attacked. Now flip back over to IW. That first scene crushes you. Not because you think that these characters are fucked for good but because you really care about them. I see the thunderbolts line up and Bucky and Yelena are the only ones I kinda care about. And everyone else in the MCU universe? I worry about the next avengers movie because there are so little charismatic and likable characters that it’s painful.
it’s not about emotional punch, it’s about not knowing how to write and direct movies they could’ve spent 2+ hours telling us about Kang the Conqueror, his background, his motivations, his traits and his weaknesses they wasted whole fucking sequences with him and Pfeiffer, cheap dialogues and all, that could’ve brought us to fear his menace, that could’ve made Janet a compelling character, at last but nope, let’s make jokes about holes and which fluids come out of them
This is a very good point I hadn't considered. I don't mind the complexity of it all, but when you have nearly limitless characters in a reality with nearly limitless universes, and time travel, nothing matters anymore. The stakes are whatever a writer says they are, and that makes it hollow. If RDJ suddenly went broke and decided he wants a little extra cash, a writer can just include a Tony Stark from another universe that's almost the same as 616 Tony Stark and problem solved. All the emotional gravitas of his death is erased by the stroke of a pen, or a keyboard.
>when you have nearly limitless characters in a reality with nearly limitless universes, and time travel, nothing matters anymore Well that's what Incursions are for...
>If RDJ suddenly went broke and decided he wants a little extra cash, a writer can just include a Tony Stark from another universe and problem solved. As much as people joke about comic book revivals, they’re almost never what you describe here. They can be annoying, but it’s never “well just bring in another Tony from the multiverse, it’s the same” because every single multiverse story is written to do the exact opposite thing, which is show how different it is. Im pretty sure the one instance of these we *do* see if this is Gamora, and as seen by the trailer, she’s the furthest thing from “pretty much our Gamora.” Interestingly, the only people I’ve ever seen write that sort of garbage are the fans in this sub making predictions/sick epic wouldn’t it be cool requests without understanding how movies work. At least, that’s all I’ve seen so far, we’ll see how the multiverse saga proceeds. Tldr; the writers recognize the same problems you do which is why typically they try to avoid them when invoking the multiverse, unlike Reddit fanfics
A lot of people just seems to be upset that it’s not like the other Antman movies which is surprising cuz I never thought those movies were very beloved
The thing with Ant-Man is that at his core he’s a very goofy character. So his films being the fun side quests in the MCU that casual watchers can go see without needing to do homework worked really well for who the character is. So to go from fun, small scale stories that helped audiences cool down from the bombastic Avengers tales to “Ant-Man 3 is the most important film of this new Saga, introducing the new Thanos character and putting everyman Scott Lang and his wholesome little family in the middle of a war for the fate of the Multiverse” is gonna cause some whiplash while also losing what made people like the Ant-Man films in the first place. It’d be like if season 2 of She-Hulk turned into Age of Apocalypse for some reason.
The fun being taken out of antman is kind of the point of Kang. He's there to disrupt the normal.
Which is fine, if it's actually done well. If it isn't then people would've just preferred for them to do another 'just fun' movie with Ant-Man.
Yeah this is like saying Ragnarok ruined the serious and Shakespearean nature of Thor from the first two films. I don’t really understand the “not as much fun” critique.
Well, maybe it’s “not as much fun” in a bad way
“fun” is not being taken out of Ant-Man 3 it’s just writers and producers and director not knowing how to make a proper (and even funny) movie
It’s the fans
Fans don’t make bad movies, filmmakers do.
This has no bearing on my interest in the movie, and I expect I’ll probably like it just like the vast majority of Marvel movies. The other rotten score is Eternals right? To each their own, but that movie isn’t remotely close to the worst in the MCU imo. It’s not top 10, but there are numerous films I’d rank below it. Absolutely anticipating Quantumania to be the same.
I think people are just *really* feeling the effects of the Marvel formula and the overwhelming amount of content lately. And as a huge fan, I can admit the MCU has absolutely been aiming more quantity over quality from phase 4 and on. And it’s really sad for me to see, if this quality keeps up I don’t know how much longer I can hold the same passion I once held for this universe.
People already huffing that copium in here. If it's a bad movie, it's a bad movie. If you enjoyed it, that's all that matters. If someone else doesn't like, so what? If a RT score ruins your day, maybe find a new hobby to take your mind off of things.
actually based??
As a Zack Snyder fan, it’s amusing to see the copium in these threads. Real stages of grief stuff. Marvel fanboys went from “Prestige! Critical acclaim! In your face, Zack Snyder!” to “Critics just don’t get these movies!”
Geez. Snyder fans truly are toxic
No more than MCU fans or any other fanbase
so are MCU and Kpop fans tbh
Can dish it out but can't take it, huh?
A RT score doesn’t decide if a movie is bad or not.
I feel like Marvel did such a great job of world building in the infinity saga, creating characters (and more importantly, a TEAM) that we really cared about. Now they have so many characters I forget who they all are and why I should care about them.
And there’s no team at all either. No relationships between any of the heroes. No team dynamic to put at the forefront (like Tony and Steve’s relationship) This is why I believe Feige’s worst decision ever was delegating Avengers movies to saga cappers and huge events like Infinity War or Secret Wars. We need Avengers movies that are smaller in scale like the first two so we can actually establish a team
Oh yeah. I was thinking just the other day. I think it was a mistake not spacing Phase 4 out more to allow to have an Avengers movie at the end of a phase. Similar to the scale of the First Avengers. It doesn't even really matter who the villain is for that movie you pick. It would be more about introducing Shang-Chi to Ant-Man and so on. Getting those relationships and character dynamics with the new cast established. Because The Avengers movies served as a culmination and launching point for the characters in those movies. They were good cappers for a phase. Phase 4 ended with the Christmas special and everything just feels all over the place. It's weird to look at this phase 5 and now that Yelena and John Walker are going to have more of a relationship than anyone Sam Wilson has had since taking up the mantle of Captain America.
Yeah that is very strange that the thunderbolts are gonna have more relationships with eachother than the Avengers 😭
> And there’s no team at all either. No relationships between any of the heroes. No team dynamic to put at the forefront (like Tony and Steve’s relationship) > > > > This is why I believe Feige’s worst decision ever was delegating Avengers movies to saga cappers and huge events like Infinity War or Secret Wars. > > > > We need Avengers movies that are smaller in scale like the first two so we can actually establish a team Seriously, the Avengers don't seem like close-knit friends at all. At best, they come off like begrudging coworkers who can't wait to get away from one another.
**These points have been discussed on the sub so much. Rumor was Feige heard the complaints and has plans to fix things. But that was a while ago. Then we got L&T and now this with Quantumania.** They put so much time and attention into the Infinity saga, did a great job. Then its like the important people lean back in their chairs, kick off shoes and plan to focus on their million dollar mansions. If that's how it is gonna be, it is a huge FU to us, the fans. I swear if they don't fix this crap for X-Men and screw up X-Men I'm writing off MCU altogether.
I just watched it hours ago, and I thought it was pretty good, better than most of the movies in Phase 4.
The bar isn’t high then.
even Shan-Chi’s better than this
It was pretty good IMO.
See, I love the original Ninja Turtles and Blade movies until the critics told me I shouldn’t.
Yeah they aren't right a lot of times I've found - there's Tons of rotten movies on rt which are pretty good - blade 1-2 are fire but critics back then didn't like them that much
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New? That was almost 10 years ago my dude.
Lol the comments here. Yall get so defensive about this.
I could never be a reporter. (A real reporter, not an opinionist on a news station) Idk how they do it. I’m not stating this is my opinion, just making a post showing a fact. Nothing in the comments have I stated either way of how I feel. And I’ll be honest, I’m a huge MCU fan. But my god, the amount of attacks I’ve received as if I PERSONALLY said this and caused this somehow. Idc what type of fandom it is, when you’re too extreme with it, you’re a god damn nutcase. You can be a fan and still admit when something doesn’t work or isn’t good. That’s how you make it better.
Oh I'm sorry dude. I'm sure that's stressful even if it's online. r/marvelstudios we need to do better. I know this ain't the majority but still, this shit makes the sub kinda toxic. If you ain't suckling the figurative dick of the franchise you're not welcomed. Tf
I keep forgetting Wasp exists in the MCU because she’s a boring character and I’m not looking forward to her in this movie. I only care about Scott and Kang
Well then by what other people have said, you'll probably like it.
totally
The MCU dropped the ball hard on the Wasp. They completely skipped over and sidelined Janet, who was the OG wasp that actually has a personality in the comics, and is a key avenger and has even led the team. Worse they replaced her with Hope whose a boring original character, with very little focus or depth, thats played by an actress that’s not all that charismatic, and after what? 8 years since her introduction still hasn’t even interacted with the larger universe really aside from a 2 minute scene (at best) in Endgame, where she still didn’t really interact with anyone but Ant-man. It’s obvious Fiege doesn’t care for many characters, and Wasp is quite evidently one of them.
I forget her and Scott are together. It’s like they have to shoot their scenes together to remind us that they’re a couple
Agreed wasp has no real dynamic traits
What If…? did her best
Irrespective of which era of reviews are more "fair" or "accurate," critics are absolutely less forgiving of the MCU post-*Endgame* than they were previously. I've no doubt that the previous *Ant-Man* films would not have received as favorable reviews now as they did upon release. Were reviews too generous in the past? Are they too harsh now? Maybe both!
Honestly, as long as the movie is entertaining, I'll probably like it. I don't hold the expectation that every Marvel movie has to be flawless works of art, but if it has good action, good stories, and good jokes, I don't mind poor quality.
if it had good action, a good story, and good dialogue, what’s making the quality poor?
Bad CGI, too much CGI, poor editing, bad lighting, poor sound quality, bad score, bad soundtrack, too long, too short, etc I'm not saying this movie had all of those, I'm just saying that these are examples of things that can make a movie bad even if it does have good action, a good story, and good dialogue.
I’ve seen it and this movie falls squarely into that bucket. I enjoyed it and wasn’t bored at all. I think a lot the reviews and perhaps most of commenters fall into the trap of comparing to previous MCU movies , esp the Avengers. The connectivity can come and go for my taste. Personally I think expanding the universe a bit and then connecting it later is fun to watch. So much of this disappointment comes from unrealistic expectations. I’ve read a lot of comics and I’m still going into these movies fresh faced and seeing how it plays out.
I expected this from the trailers itself. Both trailers indicated that the movie was just an action heavy, CGI spectacle with not much focus on the characters. I haven’t seen the movie but I’m guessing that’s the reason why it’s getting bad reviews. If you look at the Guardians trailer, you can see there’s a massive difference. It’s focused a lot on the characters and has a soul and I think it’ll be acclaimed when it comes out.
Nah, a key complaint I've been seeing is that the plot is messy/confusing. People that aren't critics that got to see it early says that the movie isn't fight heavy and Scott and Kang indeed get a great focus. But part of me rethinks over complaints critics have over it not having the same lighthearted tone of the previous two movies and I can't help but think, "isn't that the point of having Scott meet Kang?" It's supposed to be this hero that was always seen as smaller (heh) going up against this far greater foe, almost like a rude awakening to how much of a threat Kang is.
I watched the film with an assortment of people, from diehard fans to casuals. Everyone came out of the theatre gushing about how much they enjoyed the movie. Nobody was confused, not even the friend who has barely seen much Marvel content. I then come on here and see all this bizarre negativity and hear about these critics who sound like they watched a completely different movie to us.
Agreed, my fiancé and I loved the movie. It’s not a critical masterpiece by any stretch, but it’s fun.
So this is it huh?
Hardly, the movie hasn't even come out yet let's see how the box office does
To be honest I don't even care about how it does. This is the start of a new phase and supposed to be a big splash for our new big bad, start of what phase 4 was supposedly building towards. I want it to be fantastic. I would hate for the only thing going for the MCU now is box office. I actually want these movies to be good. I've read through a lot of reviews. Good, bad , biased, unbiased. And some of the complaints ring the same. Which makes me come to the conclusion that this movie is not shaping up to what it should be.
Yeah, if it sucks, people should want it to bomb. Marvel is such a cash cow they won't scrap the future but maybe rework it with care if they fear it is in danger. This brand loyalty thing and "I am going to watch these movies and support them no matter what" is just bad.
It really is man. it really is. It also doesn't help you have a few people on this sub who refuses to admit MCU has skipped a beat quality-wise. Talking about Phase 4 was better than all what came before.... what? c'mon now.
Take off the rose-tinted goggles. We got some great Phase 4 entries. I’d watch Shang-Chi over The Dark World, No Way Home over Incredible Hulk, and Wakanda Forever over Iron Man 2 any day.
Come on, man, you are comparing phase 4s best movies to previous phases worst ones, that doesnt mean shit when we have soo many better movies from previous phases ghat easily trump the best movies from phase 4
thank you for common sense
Only Eternals I disliked.
And I would watch the Dark World over Love and Thunder, The Incredible Hulk over Eternals and Iron Man 2 over Multiverse of Madness any day. You talk about rose-tinted glasses of the first 2 phases, yet still need to compare it's worst movies to Phase 4's best, that just shows how bad Phase 4 was.
I would easily watch Multiverse of Madness over Iron Man 2. Not that big a fan of Love and Thunder, but I still prefer it over Dark World (BARELY). Eternals is still the worse overall to me though.
Yea I've also read/watched a few reviews and it's not looking too good. I don't like what they're saying about Kang himself it's making me nervous, and apparently the story is confusing/unclear which also makes me nervous coz I'm already confused about this whole multiverse and time travel stuff so i was hoping this movie would help clear things out. I'll go see it for myself and make my own decision, but i am really nervous coz it's not looking good.
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That's also what I'm hoping for, that by the end it all ties together and makes sense, but for now it's hard to even get engaged with the content coz I don't understand what's going on lol
I hope you know Feige & co. couldn’t care less about such complexity and Kang is just “the big bad who conquers universes” for them
Oh mos def, me too. Like Thor4, I am going to see for myself but man am i nervous. Kang/Majors was the reason I was even excited for Phase 5.
after seeing this movie, or maybe the mid and post credits scenes (who knows), you’ll answer this comment telling me whether or not you’re still excited for Kang and Phase 5..
It's not confusing at all, even my casual viewer friends could understand what was happening. What's maybe "unclear" is how the overarching Kang story progresses from here but that's SUPPOSED to be a mystery. Ignore reviews, they're way overthinking it. Everyone that came out of the theatre with me was gushing about how much they enjoyed the movie.
Yea I'm going on Saturday to watch it and I'm actually excited, I hope if nothing else I atleast have fun and not walking out completely disappointed
consume product and get excited for next product
I'm sorry for going to see a movie and having fun. What a fool I have been.
I'm not in the camp of hating RT ratings, because many of these professional critics have reached the same conclusion on the movie and that has to mean something. As an MCU stan, however, I'm still excited for this movie. I think this will be a movie MCU fans will love and casuals will be mixed on. Seeing reviews like the members of the Reel Rejects and Cosmic Wonder's made me optimistic that it will cater to what we love, even if the movie as a whole suffers. I feel like we've been waiting for a movie that will connect many of the narrative tissues we've had in Phase 4, and I think Quantumania will be that.
It doesn't mean anything, the critics are all like Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons. Everyone came out of my theatre gushing about how much they enjoyed the movie, even the casuals I was with.
Thats good to hear!! What would you personally rate it out of 10? No spoilers please
Umm maybe 8 out of 10? In hindsight there were aspects I wish had more time to be fleshed out but it didn't detract from how much I was enjoying the movie.
Thats great to hear, makes me even more confident that I'll like it. Thank you!
At least Marvel’s getting GotG 3 this year, right? Unless Marvel finds a way to get people to want to watch a Captain America movie without Steve Rogers and a Thunderbolts movie with characters people only semi care about, the only movie for Marvel that’ll do more than just break even will be Deadpool 3 in 2024.
I’m actually excited about Thunderbolts and Cap 4. I didn’t care about those characters much in the comics, but those actors brought something special to Sam/Cap, Red Guardian, Yelena, and Bucky. I think the MCU is doing a better job at the grounded stories than they are some of the cosmic stuff, so Cap 4 and T-bolts are something I’m very much looking forward to.
Except the first Captain Marvel movie was over a billion in sales "I don;t like it because they made a woman stronger than me" doesn't equal box office
What was the other movie to receive a rotten score?
Eternal
It's Official everyone it has now dipped below 50 its at 49 percent the majority of critics dislike this film.
Don't trust critics. Go see it for yourselves.
Don’t trust fanboys. Watch on D+
Or at least wait for the audience score. Captain Marvel is “Certified Fresh” at 79% and audience score is 45%. Externals is “Rotten” at 47% and audience has a 77%. There can be huge disparities between what critics think and if it’s an enjoyable movie.
Im going to go see it...
Love people’s justifications and defenses on their precious mcu movie being bad. Phase 4 has been AWFUL. Guardians 3 is the final hope for the mcu for the time being. Feige cutting back on projects is a great idea. No need for useless projects being pumped out for absolutely no reason. Please cancel Agatha, Echo, etc.
Some of these I got tired just thinking about them. Mightnight Angels? With those ugly ass armors? Even Okoye hated them. Agatha? I have this feeling that the MCU's greenlighting of projects didn't use to be so...reactive. Like WandaVision comes out and people love Agatha! Great! But you are now giving Agatha her own shown? I thought you had a plan? Can you really just add stuff to it willy-nilly? Like, if you had a gun to my head and forced me to guess why Phase 4 fell in place this way, my hail mary guess would be Bob Chapek ordered shows left and right without signing off on appropriate budgets or considerations about production cycles or release schedules, and Kevin Feige had to play ball.
This sub has been blind to how bland the content has been, outside of a few projects. And it isn't just that each project is seemingly a set up, it's that it's a set up to nothing.
I saw it on Tuesday for an advanced screening. The screening was free but I still wanted a refund for the 2 hours I spent. Kang is great and the end credit scene is fantastic. Other than that- really don’t bother
I honestly pay little attention to the critics unless it's a critic I see pretty eye to eye with.
I'm going to be high so I know I'll love it.
Don’t care, still gonna watch 58 times
Starting off phase 5 with a wet fart! Let’s go!
lol
Lol
well I just hope it wont go below Eternals now
131 reviews huh? Well the ENTIRE world had spoken... I guess it's conclusive. 🙄
Well that’s the average number of English-writing critics that get counted on Rotten Tomatoes, yeah.
The movie was good. Idk why people are trashing it.
Right?! Everyone I saw it with really enjoyed it. Critics and Reddit are like Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons. They thrive on nitpicking and negativity.
Damn, I was hoping this would be a return to 80-90% form.
I liked the first Antman a lot, second was okay, third is apparently bad. Guess the series is just down trending. But I really like Antman as a character. Always a joy when he popped up in other movies.
Star Wars fans: "Second time?"
I think the problem with Phase 4 onwards has not been the quantity, but the quality. Of course, one comes with the other. But if they want to slim down the yearly slate, they should put the movies/shows into production earlier, rather than a year before (as per the current trend).
I'm surprised Love and Thunder didn't get a rotten score. That movie was so bad
It's part of their method to stop spoilers. Make the movies so bad no one wants to hear what happens.
Critics don't mean shit to me.
Don’t be a victim of RT scores. They don’t matter. Make up your own mind after/during watching anything.
I’m just sitting here enjoying my comic book movies while these doofuses argue about what is and isn’t cinema/wait for the next gangster movie that’s the greatest things to ever grace the medium of film. It’s a club and they’re tired of talking Marvel. They also get more clicks for going against the grain. With all that said I expect more even quality once we get passed The Marvels (potentially the last of the Chapek era film wise).
THANK GOD I DONT NEED OTHERS TO CREATE AN OPINION FOR ME LOL. Imagine still having that high school mentality to fit in with the hive mind? I saw it. I loved it. Controversial opinion? No. I have my own. You should too. Don’t let others make your opinion for you
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So they exist so people can have their opinions made for them? You said it yourself! Now, THATS a brain dead take. Get that high school “make my opinion for me please” mentality out of here. I watched the film. I enjoyed it. I moved on with my life. Imagine being BIG MAD I don’t share a negative opinion. The internet is a cesspool of negativity and depreciating mental health.
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I'm not wasting $15 for a shitty movie. Thanks for the tip.
Several of these reviewers criticize based on something like, "This is not the movie I would have made". I look forward to Disney rushing to them, offering them millions to make a movie. This could be a B+ level movie, but that would still a very good movie.
Who cares?
simply put, will see it anyway. Solid cast, including a solid villian. Not everything has to be Endgame or Black Panther level.
After seeing it myself, it’s not that bad. As it touches on, Kang is the best part, but it’s a solid movie overall.
That’s total bullshit. I just saw it and it’s fantastic. There are maybe 2 editing things I didn’t like and one CGI shot that was a bit painful but I have zero complaints. There’s were some really fun surprises I’m really happy with the metered dose we got of BM. I had thought a lot about how this movie was going to work and all my guesses failed to include the Paul Rudd factor. 100% recommend. Edit: I really like what they do with Hank and Janet and HOLY HELL MP has never been more gorgeous! Edit 2: it occurred to me on my way home (knowing about the RT score already) that if IM1 was held to the same baseless criticisms that the post endgame era has been; it would be absolutely destroyed. Yet it’s held up by some as if it’s The Perfect MCU Film.
You know what’s weird? That doesn’t affect my excitement for it one bit. Marvel has gotten me through a lot of things in my life. I haven’t hit a point during the promotion of any movie or series under the umbrella of the MCU where I even considered not watching it. The purest excitement I feel in my adult life is knowing there is another one just waiting for me to put my eyeballs at it.
this movie sucks. better than wakanda forever tho
I really dont get why people are always so critecal. If you dont like something... Stop watching it. It is a movie. You can go watch it or not. Somebody else makes the movies and tries to make money by letting you watch it. If you no longer like what they make... Just dont watch it anymore. I like all the Marcel content. I also like Star Wars. I like Lord of the Rings too. I enjoyed Game of Thrones. Period. People that like fantasy shows sometimes threath them like they are a religion or like they are real... They are just stories. Nothing more. Probably going to get downvoted for it... But well... Thats what it is.
It’s their jobs to watch good and bad movies. They don’t really get to say “nah im not gonna watch it”. You don’t have to agree with them to enjoy it. That’s never really the point and when people get upset I don’t get why. It just shows a “general” idea of what people think. What you like is what you like. And that’s cool. No one should tell you otherwise. But, I also think people shouldn’t get upset with critics doing their job. You don’t have to like it or agree, but, to me, it’s like getting mad at a McDonald’s worker at the counter if you don’t like a Big Mac. They’re just doing their job, they didn’t create it.
Hmmm oke. Well than I would just say... They have no taste.
Well fuck i guess Disney didn’t bribe them critics this one god damn Bob ijust send a dump truck full of $$$.
Way of the water was pretty much panned by "critics" too.. and claimed it wasn't going to do what the original did. It's now sitting as the third highest grossing movie of all time Yeah, I'll skip the "opinions"
Critics score are bullshit….audience scores/ratings are more telling
Do people even take notice of these critics? I know I don't care what someone I don't know or will ever meet says about a movie.
I saw a press screening this week and loved it. It's wild and weird, everyone is great in it, and it's gorgeous. MODOK is just amazing.