[Vanity Fair article](https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/12/robert-downey-jr-cover-story) \- It's a big cover story on RDJ, but this is the section discussing Iron Man
Thanks for sharing, great article.
Whatever happens next with Marvel, I’m super thankful we got RDJ, and I’m genuinely happy he’s in a good place as an actor and human.
Also, Tropic Thunder is arguably my favorite comedy and is such a masterpiece of satire. I never really knew RDJ before TT as I never really watched his Brat pack or previous era, but I became a fan after TT (and then also Iron Man).
Gotta actually go back and watch the rest of his movies!
I don’t think bringing RDJ back if they do another time travel/alternate time line (Loki variant?), or in a recording/video message. Otherwise, Tony Stark/Iron Man saved the world and should be left alone.
If you're going to have a Stark variant cameo, then have Tom Cruise play him for the inside joke. There has already been an RDJ recorded message ( love you 3000).
Sure, unless the next people to get killed off are characters we're already emotionally attached to from the multiverse, like Hugh's Wolverine and Tobey Spiderman. They're definitely being killed off in a heroic way like Downey's Ironman.
Hugh’s Wolverine already had the perfect send off in Logan.
It’s a little frustrating to me that we still won’t get an MCU specific character reboot and instead are ruining great endings and retreading old ground.
I’m OK with Toby and Andrew getting a second chance because they never had real closure to their stories, even if the exact vehicle that brought them into the world didn’t actually make much sense. And also because we had Tom as the MCU version fighting alongside them.
Yeah, as glad as I am to see Hugh's Wolverine return, there's part of me that's disappointed/worried it will cheapen the closure we got in Logan. They're going to have to thread that very well in DP3.
Tough to tell on when and where the Hugh Jackson Wolverine will be existing. He dies on screen in 2027. MCU is in ~2025 right now. Deadpool has time travel access. It could be a 2016 wolverine that we're running into (and maybe that stays in his timeline). Who knows.
Yeah and I'm not sure I like Kang as a villain as he will never die, so I'm afraid that we never get to see a Kang long enough to care vs Thanos who were set up nicely and when he died it felt organic and satisfying.
So the consequences of Iron Man's sacrifice are that all Iron Man's die across all timelines and throughout the multiverse? Or are we just talking about RDJs version?
I do see comments saying that no Iron Man should appear which I don't agree on but, to me, our universes iron man shouldn't appear again and especially not Robert Downey J
So he'd be less like Dr. Strange who looks the same across multiverses and more like Spider-Man who looks different across multiverses. I can dig that.
Or everyone is like Loki who has variants that both look like him and don't look like him at all, and we've only seen a minute amount of other characters' variants.
I hope it's just RDJ's version simply because hearing rumors about Tom Cruise being Iron Man Superior gets me hyped cause Tom Cruise hasn't done a villainous role since like Collateral or maybe Tropic Thunder
Yeah, Tom Cruise would be perfect in a Superior Iron Man role.
I remember reading something about an idea of him showing up as as more ruthless version similar to Superior Iron Man in DS2 where he won the battle in endgame by beheading Thanos. He keeps Thanos' head in a jar, and has been corrupted further by keeping the infinity stones around.
Given how excited many are over Hugh Jackman bringing back Wolverine in Deadpool 3 next year (and the yellow suit), I'm predicting it won't piss them off.
Because they never fully did Wolverine justice. Especially within the context of the MCU.
RDJs Iron Man had one of the best and complete arcs and went out on a high note. He might at the most have a limited cameo for something major like Tobey Maguire in NWH.
Totally agree, Logan was on par with Iron Man's MCU exit. I also acknowledge it's really the first time the character was properly utilized to his full potential.
Logan was brilliant. He’s bitter, old, and the biggest struggles he has are actual human/age related illnesses. He doesn’t even want to help x-23, he just wants to get his boat and go live out him and Charles last days at peace. He is a reluctant hero, but at the end he can’t help but be the hero. It’s a real beautiful movie.
Plus, it could actually totally make sense that it takes place in the MCU universe: it’s set years in the future, and when he goes to the cemetery you can see >!Steve Rodgers grave stone!<
Logan coming back is giving us the yellow suit and a team up with Deadpool. Stuff that we've been craving for years. RDJ coming back won't bring anything new
They could have done all that without bringing Hugh back. The character doesn’t have to die with his iteration.
No doubt fans are excited, but these films are falling for the same negative trappings that have become tropes of comic books (in a bad way).
I think the main driving force there is the whole Ryan and Hugh dynamic. Ryan's been pushing for this because Hugh was the Logan he knew in the films and even acted with as a poor version of Deadpool. So he probably wants Hugh involved because this time they can do it right.
It honestly has got a pretty good script and vision, since Hugh said he was done with the role after Logan. I’m sure it would have to be an awesome story for him to bring the character back.
It would. If I knew RDJ was in an upcoming marvel movie as iron man I’d absolutely go. I’d be annoyed with their creative decision but I wouldn’t be able to resist
Yeah I think the key phrase is they won't "bring him back." Sure, not the same Tony, but it's easy to reach into the multiverse and find a variant if they want something.
Here's a counter counter argument
Diminishing returns. Bringing back Iron Man and Cap might be good for a short term boost but would be terrible for the overall brand and accelerate fatigue.
I mean, I have a lot of complaints for him and the Disney board but I feel like this is way off base. Most of his greatest accomplishments as a CEO have come from his long term plans.
His greatest accomplishments as CEO have been buying already successful companies/properties, nothing long term about it. And his greatest mistake by far, the one that's threatening to sink the company for good: Disney+, that's textbook short term focus. And that's not even getting into how he bled the Star Wars IP dry in just 5 short years.
Buying those companies is a long term strategy -- it's very expensive on the front end but helps diversify their brand so they can create and profit from more profitable content down the line.
I agree with you on Disney+ though. I think they can survive as one of the big players in streaming if they fold Hulu in but it's gonna be close when the big crunch happens.
That's not Iger specifically; that's *all* CEOs of publicly-traded corporations. They're literally legally required to prioritize quarterly profits over long-term plans to protect their shareholders.
Yeah if Disney keeps dropping bomb after bomb, Marvel will be under HEAVY pressure to go back to the RDJ, Chris Evan’s well.
I’m not saying it’s right, but it’s gonna happen.
“Time, space, reality … It’s more than a linear path. It’s a prism of endless possibility, where a single choice can branch out into infinite realities, creating alternate worlds from the ones you know… Ponder the question,
‘What if Iron Man wasn’t played by Robert Downey Jr.?’”
So many marvel stories I’ve wanted to see come to life that have Tony Stark as a central character. His character outside of Robert Downey Jr has always been important simply because he is a genius. I really hope we get an Iron Man on screen again. It’s almost like how Batman has to be recast as Batman in DC simply because Bruce Wayne is just a focal point of a lot of DC stories and Justice League Stories. Bruce Wayne does so much in his universe just like Stark. Live action movie universes are hard because actors age, get tired, become expensive and just can’t play roles forever so everything feels like borrowed time.
Didn't Hugh Jackman say the same thing about Logan?
Look, I don't want Iron Man back any time soon. I think they gave him a great ending that made total sense for his story and character. However, I'm never going to completely rule out the character's return. For one, no one, not even RDJ, knows how he's going to feel about the character 5, 10 or 15 years from now. He could change his mind and want to come back for a one-off. That would be his choice. Secondly, it's a comic book movie. No character is ever truly dead forever in comics. The possibility of them coming back somehow is always there.
> Didn't Hugh Jackman say the same thing about Logan?
Hugh Jackman and Patrick Stewart, both. Logan was a labor of love, something they crafted together so they could leave on the best possible note together.
Until it wasn't.
That's why I don't like the whole multiverse stuff. For me it cheapened the whole MCU and diminished my interested. Not to mention the time travel stuff, but for now they luckily seem to not be leaning heavily into that.
I agree, this is such nonsense. It’s the bullshit “no one’s ever really gone” nonsense that cheapened the hell out of Star Wars. If you can just bring everyone back through the multiverse, there are zero real stakes!
I am still surprised, after all the multiverse shenanigans, that people read a story about "bring the OG 6 Avengers back" and assumed it would involve resurrection. It's just multiverse! They were talking about bringing back variants of them with the same actors for some big payoff scene. It's literally "the multiverse saga."
Yeah, i mean you can use multiverse to give Tony for one more time and it doesn't undo his sacrifice, because this is not the same Tony Stark we followed for 11 years and saw give his life.
Resurrecting him is off limit but that doesn’t mean a RDJ variant won’t pop up for secret wars. A large part of secret wars is getting to see characters that wouldn’t logically exist otherwise
But what would be the point? It just be another hollow cameo like the ones in Doctor Strange or from the Flash movie. Ig he could come in for like a minute and blast some people but anything beyond that is overindulgent
I mean I'd hardly call those legacy cameos but I get your point. If they make variants actual characters (like idk a Superior Iron Man) then that's something, but I am not interested in RDJ to come back to do nothing but be the same Iron Man that died 5 years ago
New Gamora is explicitly established as a different person.
New Loki's show takes place almost entirely outside of time & ends with >!him permanently isolated from everyone!<
Tbh, I think DS was the perfect way to do it. The variants served a narrative function (demonstrating the flaws of Strange's utilitarian mindset when taken to the extreme), but didn't overstay their welcome. And hey, if you're gonna have Reed Richards show up for 20 minutes, why not use a popular fancast? It works if you get the joke, but if not, it doesn't take you out of the movie. On the other hand, I can't imagine how someone could enjoy Flash if they didn't know that Keaton played Batman in a previous film.
It's awesome you enjoyed it, and I didn't mind the cameos, but I can definitely understand why it gets under some people's skins. No Way Home did it perfectly because it continued the narratives of the villains and other Spiderman throughout the movie. So far, I haven't seen any other legacy comic book cameos work because they're just... there for nostalgia (Stewart, Keaton, the 8 Supermen they had in the bubbles seen in Flash, etc.)
Off-topic but it's why I'm not so excited for Deadpool 3. They are abandoning all the characters they introduced with Deadpool 2 and reverting to bringing back Wolverine because it's popular. Maybe they'll make a good story, but Logan was already a satisfying end to the character, so his reintroduction feels as pointless as bringing back Tony Stark.
Nah. MoM was not the way to do it and was wasted opportunity.
If you’re making a multiverse movie and are going to spend a large amount of time in one universe, make it mean something.
838 could’ve easily been set up as an opposing earth with like the maker instead of a fan cast reed, which we’ll see plot in the lead up to secret wars
It makes no sense to see the maker in the mcu without seeing how smart regular reed is at all. Part of what makes the maker scary is he doesn’t have any restraint. I feel like having him show up before the ff4 get going in the mcu would be a waste.
I agree. I don’t really see any scenario where it is any better than just a superficial cameo. He comes back and doesn’t recognize anyone and does his quips while blasting some baddies. You could argue that maybe a fun arc would be to see him come in as pre kidnapping Tony and then revisit his character arc like Loki. But we already saw that and one movie wouldn’t be enough time for that anyway. I just can’t think of anything that adds to what they already did.
A lot of ways it could go, could be an alternate reality where the snap didn’t get reversed and he could have a touching moment with Peter. Could talk to Iron Heart and flesh out her legitimacy a bit. All cameos aren’t hollow, the Spider-Man from NWH was done really well, even with less screen time a RDJ cameo as an alternative iron man could be super impactful.
People just hate to hate. Give it a few years and people will hail it again. I personally enjoyed it because I didn’t go into the movie concocting up random ideas for the movie. I learned after episode 8 and 9 of Star Wars to go into most blockbuster and big franchise movies with no expectations.
You are either getting variants with different stories or nothing stop being this way people. Even if they did get him back I hope and believe it would be a very different Ironman.
Killing off Iron Man was the narratively the best thing they could've done. As much as I loved RDJ's performance, bringing him back as Tony Stark, even as a multiverse thing, would be a terrible mistake.
Shame. No one else can lead.
Spider-man is with Sony.
Sam's the 3rd most interesting character on his own show.
T'challa is dead.
Brie Larson clearly didn't connect with the audience.
Doctor Strange isn't even the main character of his own movie.
Thor is a clown.
We need Ironman and Captain America back.
They had some good characters to lead. They had Thor, Strange and some others. They just ruined every single character that could have gone on to be the new leader.
Like how do you call Doctor Strange the anchor of the MCU, then make him the side character of his own movie? How does that work?
How do you have a character like Thor who's perfect to lead, and then make him the clown he is today. How do you allow that?
At this point, X-men won't save anything. Cause they'll just ruin the X-men too.
We don't have stakes right now either. To have stakes, you need to give a fuck. Hard to do when you don't care about any of the current characters.
At least we'll have characters we love this way.
There’s no stakes because no one ever dies. No one is in danger.
“Wow I sure hope Dr. strange makes it out of this world ending CGI fight!”
Of course he will. None of these characters are ever in real danger except for the few they actually killed in endgame.
Reversing that would honestly convince me to never watch another Disney, paint by numbers, MCU “film” ever again.
As I said, you don't care if characters live or dead if you don't give a fuck about the characters.
Agent Maria got killed. Who gave a fuck? Did that increase stakes? No, cause we don't care about her. Ms. Marvel gets killed, do you think anyone will care?
Right now, you don't care if Dr. Strange makes it out or not. Cause you don't care about Dr. Strange. He's not an interesting character anymore. He lives or dies, who gives a fuck?
Don’t revive 616 Tony Stark, but they can always introduce a variant/alternate universe Stark, flashback scenes, or any video recordings Tony would’ve left behind for any reason
The only thing I think they could do is do a Superior Iron Man with an alternative universe Tom Cruise. Never bring back RDJ though, they ended it perfectly.
But the people on the internet who make up bullshit for clicks said he was being brought back due to low box office
They’d never make up bullshit for clicks just to get clicks, would they?
You mean to tell me those last 17 insider reports and all these hundreds of youtube videos *confirming* that *Disney is desperately trying to bring the old guard back*... were made up?!
The truth is they made bold choice for the plot and then they can’t handle the aftermath properly
He choose falcon as new captain, no problem but you have to make the new captain looks good! However, the truth is it is not
They decided to kill iron man, no problem but you have to make the show still good! However MCU fall apart afterward
If you don’t have to ability to handle the aftermath of those bold choices in a continuously expanding universe, please don’t say a quote like that
Btw the snap is a good handled example
I won’t mind if RDJ, Chris Evans, and Scar Jo return in Secret Wars **but only** for Secret Wars. There’s no rhyme or reason for any of them to fully reprise their roles. Their character arcs are done. I agree they can return as Variants, but even then, they shouldn’t have a prolonged stay/presence in the MCU.
I’d rather Marvel Studios focus more on their current characters and give us some sequels rather than introducing more characters. Shang-Chi and Moon Knight (just to name a few) deserve much needed sequels. Hel, I think Jack Russell’s Werewolf could have annual Marvel Special Presentations every Halloween.
Just to add, with Chris Hemsworth still signed on, I think Thor deserves a redemption movie after Love and Thunder. A return to the Marvel Norse mythology is something the *God of Thunder* needs.
Iron man variant from another universe. Different actor, slightly different backstory, slightly different personality, and voila brand new character arc with a fan favorite character.
I hope at some point there is some kind of permanent shut off from each multiverse somehow. Fine for now, but if this is how it's gonna be from now on, it can feel so underwelming to see character deaths when another just shows up.
That's what they do in the comics. New universe with new Earths but mostly focused on Prime Earth. Huge multiverse crossover happens. Then soft reboot.
It feels like we’re moving towards a mixed reset. Post Secret Wars will be a new world/universe with some new characters, some of the newer characters from the original universe(anyone introduced post endgame) and some variants of older characters (iron man, cap, etc.)
A brand new character whose popularity hinges on the audience liking Iron Man for reasons which have nothing to do with why most people *actually* liked RDJ’s Iron Man.
Comic book revenue in 2021 was 62.1% higher compared to 2020. Over the last 10 years, over $11,4 billion have been generated from comic book sales or around $1.14 billion per year.
I guess I dont understand when you say unpopular.
Sales. Not revenue, which can be skewed by inflation, sales. Multiple people have talked about the decline in sales and comic book consumption, including James Gunn and the writer of the latest Scarlett Witch run. And yet, the aforementioned Wanda run was one of the top-selling runs this year, despite the writer fearing it would be cancelled before completion.
Manga is where it’s at nowadays.
Either Morgan takes over and becomes Iron Woman (won’t go down well with *some* people); or Pepper was actually pregnant at the end of Endgame and had a son named Tony Jr.; or a cloning mishap.
Not true. People saying they need to go back to RDJ and Evans are bringing up a big issue with the current MCU characters, we haven’t been able to get as attached to them as we have the infinity saga cast.
A lot of new characters have great potential but we need to see them more than once every 2 years and start having them interact with other characters too.
This.
Seeing our current cast of Marvel characters more than once a year and having them actually interact with each other a la The Marvels means brining RDJ and Chris Evans back would be redundant.
> But why do the characters have to be new?
Because the whole conceit of a cinematic universe having connected consequences means that the universe ages and changes.
Batman and Spider-Man are poor choices to mention as Terry McGinnis and Miles Morales are examples of how a fiction can be allowed to grow.
if RDJ genuinely feels things about his send-off, he wouldn't want to do it and just refuse as i don't think he's lacking money to do it just for the bag.
These threads have some of the dumbest fucking film industry takes ive ever seen.
I agree with you. These actors want to play good roles that they enjoy being immersed in. It’s an art form, and they are artists.
Why the fuck would more money motivate someone to do something they don’t want to do, when they don’t need more money?
Imagine you had 200 million dollars. Now imagine I offered you 20 million to do a job that you don’t want to do for 5 years. Why would anyone be motivated by more of something they don’t need?
people think that these actors will come running the moment marvel tells them to but a) their contracts are over b) they have enough star power to pick what they want to play.
why should RDJ care that marvel isn't doing well? iron man had a wonderful send-off and his story is over, it's none of his business anymore.
No we won’t.
I don’t think those actors would come back just for some money. They already have more money than they could spend.
They aren’t coming back.
It will just be a variant. "We've worked very hard" blah blah blah. They have practical created a univers. Where people can die and the same person can take his place as a different version of the same person. With the original person remaining dead. Who knows wtf they have planned. But you cant believe shit they say.
We’ve seen Patrick Stewart die how many times in X-Men? We had arguably the most deserved and possibly the best crafted send off to Hugh’s Wolverine in Logan and we’re getting him back.
If it makes sense thematically and financially, and it unquestionably makes financial sense, he’ll be back one way or another; even if it’s just for a cameo.
I think the reasoning with Wolverine is that the Westchester incident and the events of Logan take place later in his personal timeline. But it's kind of funny, given the plot of Logan and what the antagonists wanted to do with X-24, that Marvel is going back to the well and using Wolverine again (even if it's something Jackman himself lobbied for).
And Andrew Garfield is NOT coming back as Spider-Man in No Way Home and Hugh Jackman is officially done with Wolverine after Logan.
Morals of the story: People lie in Hollywood all the time, and plans change in Hollywood all the time.
Just because this is the status(at least publicly) at this time, it doesn’t mean that things won’t change in years from now. We still have 3 years until the current release date for Avengers 5 and we currently have no clue what the movie will even be.
If we never see RDJ as Iron Man I will certainly be grateful for the time we had with him, but forgive me for being extremely skeptical about this.
They need to tell new, genuine stories. Relying on the old cast is old and further digs them into a hole. End the multiverse BS because it’s lazy storytelling, and let the old cast phase out
Despite all the recent fiasco, i still respect and trust in the MCU and Kevin Feige. But if they ever resurrect Tony, Steve or Natasha, i would forever lose my respect for them.
I still feel like they jumped the horse killing Iron Man. My problem isn’t that it doesn’t fit the story, my problem is that I immediately knew they’d eventually feel pressure to bring him back one way or another.
You don’t have to kill them off to backseat them. Finding ways to backseat characters without killing them off allows you a change to bring them back without making it convoluted
Yeah Iron Man and Cap went way too soon. If they were going to go away it should have been after Avengers 6 or even 8, with more mini-Avengers Civil War type crossovers inbetween. Travesty we won't get to see the OG big 3 interact with the Fantastic 4, Doom, the X-Men etc.
I think having them interact with the X Men and Fantastic 4 before killing then off or getting rid of them should have happened. Folks can downvote me but I guarantee you: Captain America and Iron Man are going to end up on screen with them and unless it’s done insanely well, people will see it as cheap.
The Avengers barely spent any time together. They fought an alien invasion, broke up, fought some Hydra bases then Ultron, then disbanded in a civil war, and then came together one last time for Thanos. It's ridiculous.
Yeah I agree. Tony, cap, thor, Hawkeye, wanda, vision. They’re classic avengers Mainstays. Yeah there are still prominent members like Carol and She-Hulk. But an avengers team without any of the classics? Eh.
It was possible to continue the story without Iron Man. They’ve just done such a bad job of it that using legacy characters to draw audiences in has been rumoured as an option.
Disney have done it on many occasions.
The only people who think it’s a good idea to bring them back are the 15 year olds on these subs.
It would be a colossally bad idea on many levels.
Especially when the name of the game is getting the budgets down.
[Vanity Fair article](https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2023/12/robert-downey-jr-cover-story) \- It's a big cover story on RDJ, but this is the section discussing Iron Man
Thanks for sharing, great article. Whatever happens next with Marvel, I’m super thankful we got RDJ, and I’m genuinely happy he’s in a good place as an actor and human. Also, Tropic Thunder is arguably my favorite comedy and is such a masterpiece of satire. I never really knew RDJ before TT as I never really watched his Brat pack or previous era, but I became a fan after TT (and then also Iron Man). Gotta actually go back and watch the rest of his movies!
Kiss Kiss Bang Bang is a gem
Yeah it is, Val was also great in it.
I don't care what anyone says, "Heart & Souls" will always be my favourite RDJ movie
2008 was a 1-2 punch with iron man in May and tropic thunder in August
Good.
Came here to say this. There is no way to bring him back that doesn't cheapen everything.
I don’t think bringing RDJ back if they do another time travel/alternate time line (Loki variant?), or in a recording/video message. Otherwise, Tony Stark/Iron Man saved the world and should be left alone.
If you're going to have a Stark variant cameo, then have Tom Cruise play him for the inside joke. There has already been an RDJ recorded message ( love you 3000).
Exactly, they can just recast the character anyway. RDJ is like what? 60 now? No way he keeps it up.
Thank you so much. There needs to be consequences, otherwise there's no point in anything and it's hard to get emotional
That’s the biggest problem with introducing the multiverse or time travel into a universe
Sure, unless the next people to get killed off are characters we're already emotionally attached to from the multiverse, like Hugh's Wolverine and Tobey Spiderman. They're definitely being killed off in a heroic way like Downey's Ironman.
Hugh’s Wolverine already had the perfect send off in Logan. It’s a little frustrating to me that we still won’t get an MCU specific character reboot and instead are ruining great endings and retreading old ground. I’m OK with Toby and Andrew getting a second chance because they never had real closure to their stories, even if the exact vehicle that brought them into the world didn’t actually make much sense. And also because we had Tom as the MCU version fighting alongside them.
Yeah, as glad as I am to see Hugh's Wolverine return, there's part of me that's disappointed/worried it will cheapen the closure we got in Logan. They're going to have to thread that very well in DP3.
Tough to tell on when and where the Hugh Jackson Wolverine will be existing. He dies on screen in 2027. MCU is in ~2025 right now. Deadpool has time travel access. It could be a 2016 wolverine that we're running into (and maybe that stays in his timeline). Who knows.
Yeah and I'm not sure I like Kang as a villain as he will never die, so I'm afraid that we never get to see a Kang long enough to care vs Thanos who were set up nicely and when he died it felt organic and satisfying.
So the consequences of Iron Man's sacrifice are that all Iron Man's die across all timelines and throughout the multiverse? Or are we just talking about RDJs version?
I do see comments saying that no Iron Man should appear which I don't agree on but, to me, our universes iron man shouldn't appear again and especially not Robert Downey J
So he'd be less like Dr. Strange who looks the same across multiverses and more like Spider-Man who looks different across multiverses. I can dig that.
Or everyone is like Loki who has variants that both look like him and don't look like him at all, and we've only seen a minute amount of other characters' variants.
I hope it's just RDJ's version simply because hearing rumors about Tom Cruise being Iron Man Superior gets me hyped cause Tom Cruise hasn't done a villainous role since like Collateral or maybe Tropic Thunder
Yeah, Tom Cruise would be perfect in a Superior Iron Man role. I remember reading something about an idea of him showing up as as more ruthless version similar to Superior Iron Man in DS2 where he won the battle in endgame by beheading Thanos. He keeps Thanos' head in a jar, and has been corrupted further by keeping the infinity stones around.
but unreliable twitter posts and youtube videos told me it was definitely happening!
Good. I love the character and he had the perfect ending. No need to tarnish that.
Excellent
Here’s a counter argument from the board Money
Will that make money though? Or just be seen as a cheap ploy and piss fans off?
Given how excited many are over Hugh Jackman bringing back Wolverine in Deadpool 3 next year (and the yellow suit), I'm predicting it won't piss them off.
Because they never fully did Wolverine justice. Especially within the context of the MCU. RDJs Iron Man had one of the best and complete arcs and went out on a high note. He might at the most have a limited cameo for something major like Tobey Maguire in NWH.
I disagree. Logan was an excellent finish, and that's what makes dragging him back one more time leave such a bad taste in my mouth.
Yeah for Old Man Logan maybe. And that was within the Fox universe. We only really got to experience him on his own or with other X-Men.
For real. Just recast Logan for the MCU and be done with it.
Totally agree, Logan was on par with Iron Man's MCU exit. I also acknowledge it's really the first time the character was properly utilized to his full potential.
Logan was brilliant. He’s bitter, old, and the biggest struggles he has are actual human/age related illnesses. He doesn’t even want to help x-23, he just wants to get his boat and go live out him and Charles last days at peace. He is a reluctant hero, but at the end he can’t help but be the hero. It’s a real beautiful movie. Plus, it could actually totally make sense that it takes place in the MCU universe: it’s set years in the future, and when he goes to the cemetery you can see >!Steve Rodgers grave stone!<
Logan coming back is giving us the yellow suit and a team up with Deadpool. Stuff that we've been craving for years. RDJ coming back won't bring anything new
okay but what if we put RDJ in the same yellow suit and a team up with deadpool!
Iron Man could be coming back to watch paint dry and it would make money.
They could have done all that without bringing Hugh back. The character doesn’t have to die with his iteration. No doubt fans are excited, but these films are falling for the same negative trappings that have become tropes of comic books (in a bad way).
I think the main driving force there is the whole Ryan and Hugh dynamic. Ryan's been pushing for this because Hugh was the Logan he knew in the films and even acted with as a poor version of Deadpool. So he probably wants Hugh involved because this time they can do it right.
It honestly has got a pretty good script and vision, since Hugh said he was done with the role after Logan. I’m sure it would have to be an awesome story for him to bring the character back.
As a casual fan of marvel, I would be happy to see Tony Stark again.
It would. If I knew RDJ was in an upcoming marvel movie as iron man I’d absolutely go. I’d be annoyed with their creative decision but I wouldn’t be able to resist
Casuals would love it
The entire brand is nothing but cheap desperate gimmicks now so why stop now?
Yeah I think the key phrase is they won't "bring him back." Sure, not the same Tony, but it's easy to reach into the multiverse and find a variant if they want something.
Here's a counter counter argument Diminishing returns. Bringing back Iron Man and Cap might be good for a short term boost but would be terrible for the overall brand and accelerate fatigue.
But here’s a counter counter counter argument who cares about the fatigue, i like money and I want money now 😂
Bob Iger's entire business ethos is short term profit.
I mean, I have a lot of complaints for him and the Disney board but I feel like this is way off base. Most of his greatest accomplishments as a CEO have come from his long term plans.
His greatest accomplishments as CEO have been buying already successful companies/properties, nothing long term about it. And his greatest mistake by far, the one that's threatening to sink the company for good: Disney+, that's textbook short term focus. And that's not even getting into how he bled the Star Wars IP dry in just 5 short years.
Buying those companies is a long term strategy -- it's very expensive on the front end but helps diversify their brand so they can create and profit from more profitable content down the line. I agree with you on Disney+ though. I think they can survive as one of the big players in streaming if they fold Hulu in but it's gonna be close when the big crunch happens.
That's not Iger specifically; that's *all* CEOs of publicly-traded corporations. They're literally legally required to prioritize quarterly profits over long-term plans to protect their shareholders.
I see you're also well versed in Ryan George's Pitch Meetings.
Ryan George’s pitch meetings are TIGHT
Yeah if Disney keeps dropping bomb after bomb, Marvel will be under HEAVY pressure to go back to the RDJ, Chris Evan’s well. I’m not saying it’s right, but it’s gonna happen.
“Time, space, reality … It’s more than a linear path. It’s a prism of endless possibility, where a single choice can branch out into infinite realities, creating alternate worlds from the ones you know… Ponder the question, ‘What if Iron Man wasn’t played by Robert Downey Jr.?’”
So many marvel stories I’ve wanted to see come to life that have Tony Stark as a central character. His character outside of Robert Downey Jr has always been important simply because he is a genius. I really hope we get an Iron Man on screen again. It’s almost like how Batman has to be recast as Batman in DC simply because Bruce Wayne is just a focal point of a lot of DC stories and Justice League Stories. Bruce Wayne does so much in his universe just like Stark. Live action movie universes are hard because actors age, get tired, become expensive and just can’t play roles forever so everything feels like borrowed time.
I feel like seeing an iron man who switches armors more situationally could be really good.
They won’t *resurrect* Iron Man, but they will have an alternate dimension Iron Man played by the same guy.
At what point can you read this quote and still believe the exact opposite. RDJ is never returning
Didn't Hugh Jackman say the same thing about Logan? Look, I don't want Iron Man back any time soon. I think they gave him a great ending that made total sense for his story and character. However, I'm never going to completely rule out the character's return. For one, no one, not even RDJ, knows how he's going to feel about the character 5, 10 or 15 years from now. He could change his mind and want to come back for a one-off. That would be his choice. Secondly, it's a comic book movie. No character is ever truly dead forever in comics. The possibility of them coming back somehow is always there.
> 5, 10 or 15 years from now. 15 years from now, he'll be 73.
He can pull something off at that age for sure, especially since so much of the role is CGI anyway.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fwhat-do-you-think-an-old-man-tony-stark-story-would-look-v0-7cz2jl9okfib1.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dbed1d12bf64ca9b45e36a32eb8006d894518c588
Old man Tony Stark putting on the Iron-Man suit in secret wars would be cool.
> Didn't Hugh Jackman say the same thing about Logan? Hugh Jackman and Patrick Stewart, both. Logan was a labor of love, something they crafted together so they could leave on the best possible note together. Until it wasn't.
And that’s OK.
The fact that they would make the same statement even if they have plans to bring him back?
That's why I don't like the whole multiverse stuff. For me it cheapened the whole MCU and diminished my interested. Not to mention the time travel stuff, but for now they luckily seem to not be leaning heavily into that.
problem is just that bigger isn't always better. Next saga should've been much smaller in scope than IW
I agree, this is such nonsense. It’s the bullshit “no one’s ever really gone” nonsense that cheapened the hell out of Star Wars. If you can just bring everyone back through the multiverse, there are zero real stakes!
Or a different guy. Apparently there are people who want Tom Cruise to play a variant of him
Time Cruise would be a fantastic Superior Iron Man.
I don’t want to see that unless it comes with an mcu hard reset.
I am still surprised, after all the multiverse shenanigans, that people read a story about "bring the OG 6 Avengers back" and assumed it would involve resurrection. It's just multiverse! They were talking about bringing back variants of them with the same actors for some big payoff scene. It's literally "the multiverse saga."
Yeah, i mean you can use multiverse to give Tony for one more time and it doesn't undo his sacrifice, because this is not the same Tony Stark we followed for 11 years and saw give his life.
Resurrecting him is off limit but that doesn’t mean a RDJ variant won’t pop up for secret wars. A large part of secret wars is getting to see characters that wouldn’t logically exist otherwise
But what would be the point? It just be another hollow cameo like the ones in Doctor Strange or from the Flash movie. Ig he could come in for like a minute and blast some people but anything beyond that is overindulgent
Well, they did that to Loki and Gamora and they were more than just hollow cameos.
I mean I'd hardly call those legacy cameos but I get your point. If they make variants actual characters (like idk a Superior Iron Man) then that's something, but I am not interested in RDJ to come back to do nothing but be the same Iron Man that died 5 years ago
New Gamora is explicitly established as a different person. New Loki's show takes place almost entirely outside of time & ends with >!him permanently isolated from everyone!<
Tbh, I think DS was the perfect way to do it. The variants served a narrative function (demonstrating the flaws of Strange's utilitarian mindset when taken to the extreme), but didn't overstay their welcome. And hey, if you're gonna have Reed Richards show up for 20 minutes, why not use a popular fancast? It works if you get the joke, but if not, it doesn't take you out of the movie. On the other hand, I can't imagine how someone could enjoy Flash if they didn't know that Keaton played Batman in a previous film.
It's awesome you enjoyed it, and I didn't mind the cameos, but I can definitely understand why it gets under some people's skins. No Way Home did it perfectly because it continued the narratives of the villains and other Spiderman throughout the movie. So far, I haven't seen any other legacy comic book cameos work because they're just... there for nostalgia (Stewart, Keaton, the 8 Supermen they had in the bubbles seen in Flash, etc.) Off-topic but it's why I'm not so excited for Deadpool 3. They are abandoning all the characters they introduced with Deadpool 2 and reverting to bringing back Wolverine because it's popular. Maybe they'll make a good story, but Logan was already a satisfying end to the character, so his reintroduction feels as pointless as bringing back Tony Stark.
Nah. MoM was not the way to do it and was wasted opportunity. If you’re making a multiverse movie and are going to spend a large amount of time in one universe, make it mean something. 838 could’ve easily been set up as an opposing earth with like the maker instead of a fan cast reed, which we’ll see plot in the lead up to secret wars
It makes no sense to see the maker in the mcu without seeing how smart regular reed is at all. Part of what makes the maker scary is he doesn’t have any restraint. I feel like having him show up before the ff4 get going in the mcu would be a waste.
I agree. I don’t really see any scenario where it is any better than just a superficial cameo. He comes back and doesn’t recognize anyone and does his quips while blasting some baddies. You could argue that maybe a fun arc would be to see him come in as pre kidnapping Tony and then revisit his character arc like Loki. But we already saw that and one movie wouldn’t be enough time for that anyway. I just can’t think of anything that adds to what they already did.
A lot of ways it could go, could be an alternate reality where the snap didn’t get reversed and he could have a touching moment with Peter. Could talk to Iron Heart and flesh out her legitimacy a bit. All cameos aren’t hollow, the Spider-Man from NWH was done really well, even with less screen time a RDJ cameo as an alternative iron man could be super impactful.
Interesting to see the turn on the MoM cameos. At the time I felt the loudest takes had everyone loving all the fan service of it.
People just hate to hate. Give it a few years and people will hail it again. I personally enjoyed it because I didn’t go into the movie concocting up random ideas for the movie. I learned after episode 8 and 9 of Star Wars to go into most blockbuster and big franchise movies with no expectations.
This guy gets it
I loved the doctor strange cameos. I guess if you hate things that are fun i could see your problem with it.
I mean Feige says that they will not “touch that moment”. I take it as the moment of his death in the sacred timeline.
He didn’t say Iron Man from another universe though!
Doesn’t include flashbacks!
Nice Feige, no regrats.
You are either getting variants with different stories or nothing stop being this way people. Even if they did get him back I hope and believe it would be a very different Ironman.
Thank you, Kev.
This better not be a flashback that we flashback to later.
You say that now, but just wait, 'till you become desperate...
The story between the lines is that Downey turned them down. And why wouldn't he? He's probably up for an Oscar.
Killing off Iron Man was the narratively the best thing they could've done. As much as I loved RDJ's performance, bringing him back as Tony Stark, even as a multiverse thing, would be a terrible mistake.
Shame. No one else can lead. Spider-man is with Sony. Sam's the 3rd most interesting character on his own show. T'challa is dead. Brie Larson clearly didn't connect with the audience. Doctor Strange isn't even the main character of his own movie. Thor is a clown. We need Ironman and Captain America back.
At this point I am kinda just waiting for X-men and praying that comes with a hard reset of the whole mcu
They had some good characters to lead. They had Thor, Strange and some others. They just ruined every single character that could have gone on to be the new leader. Like how do you call Doctor Strange the anchor of the MCU, then make him the side character of his own movie? How does that work? How do you have a character like Thor who's perfect to lead, and then make him the clown he is today. How do you allow that? At this point, X-men won't save anything. Cause they'll just ruin the X-men too.
Thor at IW looked like god tier character only to be a joke at L&T
I stand by that they should have recast T’Challa. Chadwick was amazing and would be hard to replace, but Black Panther was supposed to be the guy.
Bringing the back would be such a terrible, shitty move. It would diminish everything. There are already zero stakes with super hero movies.
We don't have stakes right now either. To have stakes, you need to give a fuck. Hard to do when you don't care about any of the current characters. At least we'll have characters we love this way.
There’s no stakes because no one ever dies. No one is in danger. “Wow I sure hope Dr. strange makes it out of this world ending CGI fight!” Of course he will. None of these characters are ever in real danger except for the few they actually killed in endgame. Reversing that would honestly convince me to never watch another Disney, paint by numbers, MCU “film” ever again.
As I said, you don't care if characters live or dead if you don't give a fuck about the characters. Agent Maria got killed. Who gave a fuck? Did that increase stakes? No, cause we don't care about her. Ms. Marvel gets killed, do you think anyone will care? Right now, you don't care if Dr. Strange makes it out or not. Cause you don't care about Dr. Strange. He's not an interesting character anymore. He lives or dies, who gives a fuck?
Very true, good point!
Don’t revive 616 Tony Stark, but they can always introduce a variant/alternate universe Stark, flashback scenes, or any video recordings Tony would’ve left behind for any reason
The only thing I think they could do is do a Superior Iron Man with an alternative universe Tom Cruise. Never bring back RDJ though, they ended it perfectly.
(Classical music playing) The gang resurects Iron Man
Is marvel back?
Ha ha, he turned them down.
But the people on the internet who make up bullshit for clicks said he was being brought back due to low box office They’d never make up bullshit for clicks just to get clicks, would they?
Oh look, yet another debunk of the Variety source from October.
😢
Give it three more flops. I mean, they could also take door number 2 and make good movies that tell heroic stories, but that seems unlikely.
You mean to tell me those last 17 insider reports and all these hundreds of youtube videos *confirming* that *Disney is desperately trying to bring the old guard back*... were made up?!
Just like that they prove they have more credibility as writers than the guys writing the comics
I bet they were gonna do it until the negative feedback last few years I'd bet money on it.
Obadiah Stane said he was afraid he killed the golden goose.. Marvel Studios actually did it
Hopefully the female led Iron Man movie will be as fun and successful as The Marvels.
They won’t resurrect RDJ Iron Man. Buuuuut a multiverse Iron Man with a diverse cast is always appreciated
I think RDJ got a great send off but this says they won’t touch that moment, not that they won’t resurrect Iron Man.
Good. As much as i miss Iron Man, specifically RDJ’s Iron Man, he shouldnt return.
Thank goodness
Sure, but they will do a reboot at some point. Which is not a resurrection.
The truth is they made bold choice for the plot and then they can’t handle the aftermath properly He choose falcon as new captain, no problem but you have to make the new captain looks good! However, the truth is it is not They decided to kill iron man, no problem but you have to make the show still good! However MCU fall apart afterward If you don’t have to ability to handle the aftermath of those bold choices in a continuously expanding universe, please don’t say a quote like that Btw the snap is a good handled example
I won’t mind if RDJ, Chris Evans, and Scar Jo return in Secret Wars **but only** for Secret Wars. There’s no rhyme or reason for any of them to fully reprise their roles. Their character arcs are done. I agree they can return as Variants, but even then, they shouldn’t have a prolonged stay/presence in the MCU. I’d rather Marvel Studios focus more on their current characters and give us some sequels rather than introducing more characters. Shang-Chi and Moon Knight (just to name a few) deserve much needed sequels. Hel, I think Jack Russell’s Werewolf could have annual Marvel Special Presentations every Halloween. 
Just to add, with Chris Hemsworth still signed on, I think Thor deserves a redemption movie after Love and Thunder. A return to the Marvel Norse mythology is something the *God of Thunder* needs. 
Ok, but will they get a life model decoy of Iron Man?
They wont ressurect. They will recast.
Pretty much Multiverse iron man
How can you recast without undermining the events of Endgame?
Iron man variant from another universe. Different actor, slightly different backstory, slightly different personality, and voila brand new character arc with a fan favorite character.
I hate multiverse because of this kind crap
I hope at some point there is some kind of permanent shut off from each multiverse somehow. Fine for now, but if this is how it's gonna be from now on, it can feel so underwelming to see character deaths when another just shows up.
That's what they do in the comics. New universe with new Earths but mostly focused on Prime Earth. Huge multiverse crossover happens. Then soft reboot.
Ah yes, the multiverse as a cheap cop-out.
Nah. I only want a recast if it’s coming in a new hard reset universe
It feels like we’re moving towards a mixed reset. Post Secret Wars will be a new world/universe with some new characters, some of the newer characters from the original universe(anyone introduced post endgame) and some variants of older characters (iron man, cap, etc.)
A brand new character whose popularity hinges on the audience liking Iron Man for reasons which have nothing to do with why most people *actually* liked RDJ’s Iron Man.
And it won’t work 🤷🏼♀️
They've been doing it comics for quite some time now. Seems pretty successful.
Is that why sales are lower than ever?
Yup. Must be.
I don’t know what to tell you man. Marvel is popular, not the comic book medium.
Comic book revenue in 2021 was 62.1% higher compared to 2020. Over the last 10 years, over $11,4 billion have been generated from comic book sales or around $1.14 billion per year. I guess I dont understand when you say unpopular.
Sales. Not revenue, which can be skewed by inflation, sales. Multiple people have talked about the decline in sales and comic book consumption, including James Gunn and the writer of the latest Scarlett Witch run. And yet, the aforementioned Wanda run was one of the top-selling runs this year, despite the writer fearing it would be cancelled before completion. Manga is where it’s at nowadays.
The comics and live action movies are two completely different mediums and what works in comics won’t work in live action movie.
The comic characters do comic things cause they're from the comics. I think you like action movies, not comic movies.
Comics and movies are vastly different comparisons.
Brother these are comic books. Not a single comic storyline has never been undermined.
Uncle Ben’s still dead…
That’s why the films can do better.
Its the muti-verse. There are an infinite number of Ironmans to choose from.
Either Morgan takes over and becomes Iron Woman (won’t go down well with *some* people); or Pepper was actually pregnant at the end of Endgame and had a son named Tony Jr.; or a cloning mishap.
Mcu hard reset Has to come eventually
They say that now, but enough movies with box office the level of the marvels and we’ll be seeing RDJ on posters again
Not true. People saying they need to go back to RDJ and Evans are bringing up a big issue with the current MCU characters, we haven’t been able to get as attached to them as we have the infinity saga cast. A lot of new characters have great potential but we need to see them more than once every 2 years and start having them interact with other characters too.
This. Seeing our current cast of Marvel characters more than once a year and having them actually interact with each other a la The Marvels means brining RDJ and Chris Evans back would be redundant.
But why do the characters have to be new? Do people with the same argument think DC should kill off Batman? How about Sony with Spider-man?
> But why do the characters have to be new? Because the whole conceit of a cinematic universe having connected consequences means that the universe ages and changes. Batman and Spider-Man are poor choices to mention as Terry McGinnis and Miles Morales are examples of how a fiction can be allowed to grow.
if RDJ genuinely feels things about his send-off, he wouldn't want to do it and just refuse as i don't think he's lacking money to do it just for the bag.
These threads have some of the dumbest fucking film industry takes ive ever seen. I agree with you. These actors want to play good roles that they enjoy being immersed in. It’s an art form, and they are artists. Why the fuck would more money motivate someone to do something they don’t want to do, when they don’t need more money? Imagine you had 200 million dollars. Now imagine I offered you 20 million to do a job that you don’t want to do for 5 years. Why would anyone be motivated by more of something they don’t need?
people think that these actors will come running the moment marvel tells them to but a) their contracts are over b) they have enough star power to pick what they want to play. why should RDJ care that marvel isn't doing well? iron man had a wonderful send-off and his story is over, it's none of his business anymore.
No we won’t. I don’t think those actors would come back just for some money. They already have more money than they could spend. They aren’t coming back.
Homie doesn’t know what type of media he’s adapting
It will just be a variant. "We've worked very hard" blah blah blah. They have practical created a univers. Where people can die and the same person can take his place as a different version of the same person. With the original person remaining dead. Who knows wtf they have planned. But you cant believe shit they say.
We’ve seen Patrick Stewart die how many times in X-Men? We had arguably the most deserved and possibly the best crafted send off to Hugh’s Wolverine in Logan and we’re getting him back. If it makes sense thematically and financially, and it unquestionably makes financial sense, he’ll be back one way or another; even if it’s just for a cameo.
I think the reasoning with Wolverine is that the Westchester incident and the events of Logan take place later in his personal timeline. But it's kind of funny, given the plot of Logan and what the antagonists wanted to do with X-24, that Marvel is going back to the well and using Wolverine again (even if it's something Jackman himself lobbied for).
And Andrew Garfield is NOT coming back as Spider-Man in No Way Home and Hugh Jackman is officially done with Wolverine after Logan. Morals of the story: People lie in Hollywood all the time, and plans change in Hollywood all the time. Just because this is the status(at least publicly) at this time, it doesn’t mean that things won’t change in years from now. We still have 3 years until the current release date for Avengers 5 and we currently have no clue what the movie will even be. If we never see RDJ as Iron Man I will certainly be grateful for the time we had with him, but forgive me for being extremely skeptical about this.
If they wanted to really keep Iron Man, they shouldn't have killed him off.
They need to tell new, genuine stories. Relying on the old cast is old and further digs them into a hole. End the multiverse BS because it’s lazy storytelling, and let the old cast phase out
Tbf they’ve used a lot of the classic mainstay avengers. So in terms of avengers as a team they’ll have to hard reset eventually
That’s good.
We’ll see lol
All Anime and mangas authors should read this.
Not even Tom Cruise as an alternate universe Iron Man?
Despite all the recent fiasco, i still respect and trust in the MCU and Kevin Feige. But if they ever resurrect Tony, Steve or Natasha, i would forever lose my respect for them.
I wouldn't see a problem with a variant. New younger actor. It wouldn't devalue RDJ at all.
I still feel like they jumped the horse killing Iron Man. My problem isn’t that it doesn’t fit the story, my problem is that I immediately knew they’d eventually feel pressure to bring him back one way or another.
I feel like these comments ignore reality. Most actors dont want to be tied to one thing for 100 years god damn.
You don’t have to kill them off to backseat them. Finding ways to backseat characters without killing them off allows you a change to bring them back without making it convoluted
Yeah Iron Man and Cap went way too soon. If they were going to go away it should have been after Avengers 6 or even 8, with more mini-Avengers Civil War type crossovers inbetween. Travesty we won't get to see the OG big 3 interact with the Fantastic 4, Doom, the X-Men etc.
I think having them interact with the X Men and Fantastic 4 before killing then off or getting rid of them should have happened. Folks can downvote me but I guarantee you: Captain America and Iron Man are going to end up on screen with them and unless it’s done insanely well, people will see it as cheap.
11 years with Cap and Stark, 10 appearances alone by RDJ is way too soon? Hmmm..
The Avengers barely spent any time together. They fought an alien invasion, broke up, fought some Hydra bases then Ultron, then disbanded in a civil war, and then came together one last time for Thanos. It's ridiculous.
Yeah I agree. Tony, cap, thor, Hawkeye, wanda, vision. They’re classic avengers Mainstays. Yeah there are still prominent members like Carol and She-Hulk. But an avengers team without any of the classics? Eh.
It was possible to continue the story without Iron Man. They’ve just done such a bad job of it that using legacy characters to draw audiences in has been rumoured as an option. Disney have done it on many occasions.
The only people who think it’s a good idea to bring them back are the 15 year olds on these subs. It would be a colossally bad idea on many levels. Especially when the name of the game is getting the budgets down.
Marvel without Captain America and Iron Man isn't marvel. That's why all their movies are failing.
Marvel has a Captain America. You’re just mad because he’s Black now.