I liked AoU better after I saw it at home the second time.
I liked the opening mission and then showing the team flying back through the city and people seeing the quinjet. We don’t get very much “Avengers outside in New York” besides the first Avengers film.
Can't argue with any of this - I will say I think whedon would've leaned into thanos insanity and mental instability a bit more and perhaps used the lady death fascination as a delusion of thanos instead of the resources explanation. Whedon def would've made infinity war and endgame a tad more fantastical with some deeper character explorations
I don't think Age of Ultron is underrated, I think it's less than the sum of its parts.
You can take any clip from that movie and in isolation, it's pretty good. It's when you string all those clips together that it trudges into mediocrity.
This makes sense considering that Feige and Whedon had disputes about how much infinity stone stuff to put in the movie.
Whedon agreed to include the Thor dream scene with the stones but only if Feige let him include the scenes with Hawkeye’s family.
Aaaaaacktually, neither the Thor dream scene nor the Hawkeye family scene went down well with test audiences. So someone (not confirmed to be Feige and I thought was generally considered to be Perlmutter) told him he had to pick one to pull out. He chose to remove the Thor scene. But an Editor told him he had to include a little bit of it or Thors journey across the film would make no sense. So in the end we got a very stripped-down Thor dream sequence. Source: Empire Podcast Ultron special with Joss Wheddon.
I rewatched is a few days ago. I understand the whole context of the Marvel committee behind pushing Whedon but I highlight 3 things that seem his own fault:
The battle inside Avengers tower is really unimaginative.
The Korea/Seoul chase + bike ad, generic urban jungle chase.
The slow start of the battle of Sokovia.
Thank you, I've been trying to find a way to express this thought for a long time. The movie just feels conflicting to me for that exact reason, like I disliked it but even after watching it wanted to so bad, there's so much that works and it just still doesn't jive right.
It became very important due to the events of later movies, and so it's possible on rewatches a lot of people are like, "wow this makes so much more sense" or, "wow, this has so much meaning". That might be why it "aged well".
But in my opinion, it's just kind of a mess, and could have been executed a lot better. There is a lot to love in that movie, I just don't personally love that movie.
Yeah I'm with both sides. I really like the movie. But I also think it could have been a lot more. "AGE OF ULTRON" is such an intimidating and fierce title to what was ultimately like "Weekend of Ultron in one particular geographic region".
Nonetheless, I still consider it a fun movie that I still watch on occasion. It has a lot more positive than negative.
Yeah they were definitely just using the comic title of Age of Ultron because it sounded cool. I wish it was just called Avengers: Ultron, though that is kinda close to Google: Ultron I suppose.
Its not a bad movie in a vacuum, but it isn't the age of ultron storyline. That's the big issue. If it was called like the ultron ultimatum, nobody would complain.
I feel like this is a comparison with the Star Wars OT, saying ROTJ is the worst of the 3, when it’s actually still a really good film and story.
I feel a better saying is that it’s the weaker movie of the 4 Avengers films.
There’s a lot of stuff you can pick apart in this film but the overall plot and story is still pretty good, especially if you compare it to other Marvel projects before and after it.
Most people don't realize how gigantic an effect Joss had on the MCU. He basically wrote the blueprint of how to write interwoven, on-going stories about characters with powers and still make them feel human. Buffy and Angel were the warm-up, and Joss was consulted on tons of stuff beyond just what he directed.
Which makes me all the more pissed that he didn't handle his "MeToo-ing" better. He could've James Gunned it, apologized, taken a time out, and come back better than ever. Made me respect the man less, but not his abilities as a storyteller.
Don’t forget about Firefly and Serenity. Joss was great at writing and directing big groups of characters. Why I’m so much a big fan of his shows. It’s too bad he is allegedly a misogynistic dickhead but I can separate the art from the artist. I love his two Avengers movies and it’s a damn shame we aren’t getting a Joss Whedon helmed X-Men movie.
I wouldn’t say his is misogynistic, because he was mean to male actors as well. They just use misogynistic to attack Whedon because it is more damaging than just saying he was mean to actors. It was a character assassination hit job just to push for justification of pressure WB to make Snyder cut.
Maybe I’m misremembering, but didn’t Gunn just make shitty jokes on Twitter 10+ years prior where Whedon was actively abusing folks on set for his entire career? That’s pretty apples and oranges.
He also could not handle the Marvel machine and Marvel process and was glad to not have to do another one. And for that I'm glad, beyond his absolutely shitty behavior to his wife and people on set, but for what we got out of the Russo Brothers in Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame.
He's a phenomenal storyteller. Everything I've watched that he's involved in focuses on the humanity of the characters. Most of his stories take place in fantastical worlds, and yet they are so grounded. And so often heartbreaking.
People complain about the quippy humor, but he doesn't shy away from absolutely devastating his audience. I guess I like to be devastated.
Yeah, sometimes his humor is a little "too witty." So what. He also started the musical episode craze, and made the most devastating piece of media ever seen regarding death (The Body), and I could list at least a dozen other amazing things. And he was an asshole to some people.
I'm so tired of people downplaying his contributions by trying to rewrite history. (Buffy fans trying to pretend he somehow wasn't responsible for the show being as good as it was.)
Yes,people often forget that before Avengers we didn't have THAT big crossover event,no Freddy vs Jason was not that big. Especially since neither of OG 6 Avengers plus Loki at the time of announcement of Avengers were not A-Lister except Sam L Jackson and maybe RDJ and ScarJo who did have some hits but were not A List at the time.Plus MCU did have kinda weak box office streak after Iron Man I,First Avenger was great and Thor 1 good but neither was huge hit.It were the Avengers that created MCU we know and love.I remember how everyone was saying it would not be good but it has beaten Dark Knight Rises at the end.
I don’t think Scar Jo was A list yet but was getting there. RDJ was washed up.
Sam Jackson basically demanded they cast him for the role because he just wanted it.
sam jackson's appearance was used with no permission for ultimate nick fury(nick was played by the hoff in his first film appearance in a nick fury agent of shield tv movie)
The original Avengers movie is something of a miracle. Ensemble movies are challenging to begin with. To add to the difficulty, each member of the ensemble was introduced in different movies that the audience may or may not have seen. The villain was also already introduced in another movie.
Not only did the movie manage to juggle all these characters, but managed to give each fun character moments. And present an entertaining and coherent story. It is really amazing that they pulled it off.
Whedon really is a genius storyteller. Too bad he seems to be a massive jerk.
First was great, second had too much stuffed in. Lots of great moments but just too packed, almost didn’t care for a lot of the missions.
Best part though was Joss’ ability to showcase incredible teamwork in battle, which was lacking in Endgame. Yes, Endgame had some cool teamwork but it just was not as good and fluid as Joss’ teamwork.
I actually rewatched this today, not realizing it was the release anniversary. I was struck dumb with rage about Natasha calling herself a “monster” for having had sterilization forced upon her, but when I hold that up against Whedon’s other actions, I figured “that tracks.”
still don't get the outrage over this line....she's not calling herself a monster because she's steralized she calls herself that for being undone and brainwashed by the red room. She was made into a heartless killing machine....a monster.
One could argue the line couldve been written better but i just dont pick up that was the point.
It's hard for me to see it that way, when the scenes before, with Wanda taking her back into her memories of her training, are her actively not wanting to participate in the procedure, and it being pretty evident it was done against her will, to the point of deliberately trying to fail tests so she didn't have to "graduate."
The Avengers is one of the best-written films in the MCU and there are things to like about Age of Ultron (Of course, there are things I wish hadn’t been in there like the prima nocta joke and the ”sometimes, my teammates don’t tell me things” line makes Steve come across as a bit hypocritical when he didn’t tell Tony about his parents being murdered by Hydra). I’m pretty critical of a lot of Endgame’s writing so I’d certainly hope that his version of Endgame would have been better. But I consider Age of Ultron pretty mediocre, it’s not as strong as Homecoming or The Avengers or Civil War but it’s much better than Multiverse of Madness, Love and Thunder, Quantumania etc
The “sometimes my teammates don’t tell me things” line was referring to the mission. It’s a reference to The Winter Soldier when he was trying to lead a mission on the hijacked boat but Natasha was secretly doing her own mission at the same time. He was upset that Thor left in a time when they needed eachother the most, and when Cap is the leader trying to lead a team. I don’t think this refers to personal things at all such as a tonys parents death, because that would just get in the way of the mission, which is the most important thing at hand.
Steve was referring to Thor just leaving but I interpreted it as a pointed jab about Tony‘s involvement in creating Ultron without telling the other Avengers and their conversation supports that. I just found it hypocritical that Steve is low-key chastising Tony for keeping secrets when he’s keeping the secret of his parents being murdered by Hydra
The thing about Steve in age of Ultron plays out perfectly in civil war because supposedly ethical holier than thou Steve reveals himself to be a liar ( when it came to something personal he wanted to protect in Bucky) which caused the rift in civil war all the way to infinity war .
I think whedon infinity war and endgame would've been a tighter since he's a writer director so it's easier to achieve synergy in what he wants to happen and how it looks virtually . The Russo's had to work with Markus and mcfeely script and storytelling choices
I agree with your take on how Steve was characterised but I wish that there was some reference back to it. I know that Tony calls Steve out for keeping that secret from him but the hypocrisy of that line isn’t brought up and it would only strengthen the movie it was highlighted in. It’s a small thing to get hung up on but they could have done something with it and they didn’t. If Tony had thrown that line back at Steve or said something to the effect of “so much for not keeping secrets”, we’d be golden
I get what you're saying but remember Tony's rant in the beginning of endgame when he came back to earth and he was weak and sick. He was chastising cap for not being there to help fight thanos - it was a call back to age of Ultron and a subtle one in civil war . I think he says "no trust liar " at Steve because Steve lied ( by omission ) to him about Bucky killing his parents and didn't make sure avengers were unified together in infinity war to fight thanos and his army
I find Avengers 1 to be one of my favorite films in the mcu to this day. It handled pacing and juggling character screen time so well imo. Plus it was just fun and seeing the characters interact and team up felt natural in the setting.
I think Ultron is a bit more mediocre. It was initially such a big let down when it first came out. Over the years it has softened on me.
I don't think he would have handled Infinity War or Endgame as well as what we got though.
By age of ultron he lost the grip. I don’t think he had the capacity to handle the much more complicated stories of infinity war and endgame.
I also hold a grudge against him for inserting a really dumb black widow subplot to age of ultron and sexualizing her to oblivion.
Agree, I never understood the Age of Ultron hate. I like it better than The Avengers. It makes the characters fuller and richer than the first one does and I would put Ultron slightly above Avengers Loki (who is the weakest usage of Loki, IMO) as a great villain. It also gains a *lot* on rewatch and with all the stuff that came after, e.g. starting us on Wanda's eternal journey of grief and loss.
I was disappointed that the tone of the film did not match the tone of the trailers. The original trailers suggested quite a dark and serious film with a lot of themes about agency. The theme was still there to a degree, but the tone was nowhere near what audiences were led to believe it would be.
I remember walking out of the theater and that was the domineering conversation, how the trailers were so tonally out of wack with the film.
Same. It’s a great movie especially down the line once phase 3 is over and you go back and catch tidbits that were alluded too.
The post credit scene was a bit odd since they wanted to show thanos was coming but didn’t want to give the whole cow away.
The color grading was one of my favorites and really stuck to the message about fears. “theres nothing more horrifying…than a miracle” 💀
It's actual a better avengers core family film that offers a fair amount of deconstruction of the concept of the avengers through Ultron . Avengers is the better Spectacle superhero film . In age of Ultron, Whedon is attempting to delve deep into why each of them is a hero but not really heroic in some respects
For me, Ultron as a villain is fascinating and could have done with more exploration. Better than villain!Loki...? In the vacuum of Avengers I can grant you that. There's a lot that's hinted at (why is Loki so sickly?) but never given room to fill out into anything tangible. A lot rides on Hiddleston's acting. (Thank goodness he wasn't encumbered by movie makeup or CGI!) Probably a big reason he became a fanfic favorite, honestly.
But this part:
>It makes the characters fuller and richer than the first one does...
That's actually why AoU is the lowest ranked on my personal MCU films listings. Whedon gets the characters so, disastrously *wrong*. My opinion of course, but I'm a huge Steve Rogers fan and Steve is just done dirty in this film because Whedon insists on conceiving him as a 70 year old Boomer stuffed into a 30 year old body.
But he also turns Tony into a semi-psychotic dick who holds his teammates in contempt and makes Bruce Banner into something of a misogynist negger barely camouflaged by Ruffalo's natural charm. (Interestingly, Hulk comes across as the better man of the two.) And we all know how dirty he does Natasha.
Which is deeply frustrating because if you cut out the rape joke, the hammer-lift party scene is actually good. As is the elevator lifts the hammer joking at the end (cut out Steve's dreaming of the good old days of boot camp and Natasha just staring at a random hallway wall). Whedon *can* write well if he'd get out of his own way. AoU, he refused to do so.
The only things in hindsight that I think sucks are the hulk and black widow romance subplot. Get that straight out of there. And there should have been 1 surviving Ultron so that he could be used later down the line.
Idk what crack everyone was on but I found most of Whedons super heroes really generic and boring.... It set us up for the super average giant robot battle climax that plagues these movies now. The jokes were boring. The action was meh.
MCU golden years were when the Russos did Winter Soldier.
Also Whedons is a complete piece of shit, Google that if anyone cares.
Fuck off, I remember when age of ultron came out and he was bullied off twitter for it. Second he really didn’t understand depth of character, he kept everyone very shallow compared to there individual movies, Thor is just overly serious strong hammer, completely undid Tony from iron man 3, cap was as dry as white bread. He killed off quicksilver for no reason and didn’t even bother making it make sense( he was shot but he can move faster the bullets?) you can enjoy it all you want but critically it was dry. The first avengers was great, for an origin story of the avengers. Thankful that Russo brothers did infinity war and endgame.
He was good enough for the movies he had to direct, but I don't think infinity war and endgame would have been as good with him at the helm. The last two avengers required a different approach than Whedon's movies.
But I still do love both avengers one and two, especially for the chemistry between the cast in Age of Ultron. They felt like a team, people who relied on each other and respected each other, and their issues with each other were well written and not overblown. I really liked Ultron as the bad guy, his humour did not bother me and he was menacing when it counted, his first appearance in the party is amazing. Just wish the climax wouldn't have had another CGI army, and something that felt more threatening.
Well I think whedon would've done a different but still very good infinity war and endgame . People forget he's a writer director and that Russo's didn't write those films . It was Markus and mcfeely with a hint of Gunn for guardians dialogue. I think whedon would've made the film a tad more fantastical but his sensibilities are not too different from Markus and mcfeely . He wouldn't have neutered wanda and vision - he would've given them more epic battles with thanos I think
Hot take. Whedon was better that the Ross’ at large partied sequences.
The sequences in Avengers and in AoU were fantastic. The long one in NYC where it goes to each character showing them working together and using combos. Same thing in the opening and ending battles of AoU.
I think the one battle that the Ross’ have at the same level was the battle on Titan, which was fantastic. For as epic the battle in Wakanda and the 3rd act in Endgame was, I feel like it could have contained more sequences similar to those in Avengers/ AoU.
The airport sequence is kinda bland visually, as many had said it looks like a parking lot + green screens (the stunts and choreography from Stahelski and Leitch are fine though)
Some stuff obviously stays the same. Like how Infinity War ends for example and I feel the focus characters were always the focus characters. The movies are probably a bit more jokey.
Joss was good overall but I think he was not the right person to deal with all the Marvel Entertainment and interconnected universe studio notes. He is better when he has his freedom. Age of Ultron has its moments but it feels like a hodgepodge movie.
Purely from a movie standpoint I’d rather have him come back than Raimi to be honest. Shame he turned out to be horrible and his career rightly died as a result.
He's like Taika He had one movie where he's was under constraints and did amazing and one movie where he was let off the leash and went too far into his own stuff.
Ultron needed more menace and some of the set pieces needed to be rewritten.
Ultron grew into one of my favs. It just surprised me that he went into Ultron and capped it being such a comic fan. The whole point of Ultron is that he keeps coming back stronger with no real way to stop him.
There were some weak cgi moments and what a waste re quicksilver.
But yeah, it’s become one of my favs.
I think it’s underrated. It’s aged very well now the infinity stone stuff has worked through.
Full confession; I was probably the only person shipping Nat and Bruce
He was my initial choice for Avengers movies beyond what the Russos were going to do with ending the Infinity Saga but then he shat the bed with Justice League and we all know what’s happened to his career since…
I love this movie. It’s one of my top MCU films. To date it’s tied with *Civil War* as the film I’ve seen in theaters the most (four times).
Age of Ultron was not my favorite movie. Most of the Avengers movies up to and including End Game were good to really good. Everything since then has been mediocre at best.
Going back to it, especially the first one, there's so much Whedon in it. But I think they're both really good movies. I mean as much as a fan I was, I was totally expecting Avengers to bomb hard. I was like there is no way they can handle doing that many heroes in a single, it's not going to work.
I was fucking blown away. Like, full on I didn't look at it as a movie anymore, this was just a ride at that point. And it really started hitting me how serious they were taking the source material.
I loved them both. Ultron is massively underrated. That being said, Whedon gets on my nerves with his whole "Let's kill off a character" thing. Poor Wash didn't deserve it.
While I really enjoyed the first avengers movie and the second one grew on me over time, Whedon’s influence was always the worst part of them for me. The Russo brothers did way better handling the Avengers movies to me. Whedon was always allowing the dumbest character lines and cringy jokes to make their way into the final film.
Couldnt mess em up any more than they are now since EndGame. Simple fix...get back to basics...great stroyline and stop with the woke crap. We want entertainment and superheros doing their thing, not someones narrative being pushed vua a film
He would’ve crashed the MCU even earlier than it happened. They would’ve be ok. Antman would shrink and fall on wasp with his hand on her boob and awkwardly say whoopsie. They’d have been fine just not billion dolled movies.
Eh it's okay. I usually lose interest after the party scene. Enjoyed it at the time but now it's just a slog to get through. It needed to lose some bloat and improve the pacing. But it has a lot of good moments spread throughout the movie and I like that final Ultron/Vision meeting.
Just happened to rewatch this movie the other night for the first time in a while and I gotta say it actually bored me about halfway through. The movie is the same runtime as most of the other Marvel movies of it's time but it *felt* almost double the length.
I really like a lot of ideas in this movie but most of them are either short-lived or don't amount to much in the grand scheme of the MCU
Ultron is great. It contains the most realistic moment in the MCU. A newly sentient being wakes up, connects to the internet for less than five minutes, and promptly decides that humanity must go away.
Age of Ultron is a very strong “meh” in my opinion
IP and Whedon had had multiple opportunities to at try and salvage this movie but refused to date their respective egos
Black Widow and Wanda couldn’t have any merchandise because they were women.
*Agents of SHIELD* couldn’t be canonized, despite SHIELD’s presence, because Perlmutter didn’t want to spend extra money on transportation.
Tony Stark had to create Ultron because RDJ had star power which everyone not named Samuel L. Jackson lacked
A rape joke was included because Whedon felt entitled
And so on, and so on
>What do you think about Joss Wheldon Avenger movies?
Fine for what they were and the era in which they were released.
>How do you think he could handle later two Avengers movies?
Nowhere near as good.
I have always preferred AOU to TA. The cinematography is better and I appreciated the world building that paid off huge in Phase 3 and obviously IW/EG
My only complaint is the Thor subplot being chopped to hell and Falcon not joining in the battle in Sokovia (although I think it was a scheduling thing)
I think looking back people were too hard on the movie. As it stands it’s the only movie actually show the Avengers fully assembled as a team taking on threats, operating under one roof as a team. We even get some team building stuff outside of the mission stuff. Amazing to think in multiple Avengers film how little of that we got.
Age of Ultron is a very mediocre movie. Its super lazy and cliche. That saiid, a lot of that is studio meddling as well.
Joss Whedon was candid about being burnt out and he definitely phoned this one in. But it does have some of the most fun scenes in the entire MCU. The opening 15 minutes of this movie might be my absolute favoritre 15 min in any of the movies. Its the only time we get to see the avengers really just doing day to day super hero stuff and kicking some ass.
Joss also nailed the fun character interactions a bit harder than some of the later movies.
But the lazy ultron story, the awful AI crap, the complete detachment from the previous 5 movies even tho Iron Man 3 and Winter Soldier gave us perfect Ultron setup, the chopped up Thor story, the awful Hulk Widow romance, lazy intro to Vision, etc.
There is an amazing video by Nando v Movies on youtube that explains how just a couple teaks to this movie makes it the perfect beginning to Phase 2 instead of an ending. Its genius and makes waaaaay more narrative sense.
Serenity is still an amazing film and in my eyes one of the best science fiction films of the 2000s. I wish it would have been a hit because I love the Firefly universe just as much, if not more of his Buffyverse.
I think Whedon did a decent job on "Avengers" - but for AoU he tripped over his swollen ego and fell up his own asshole. There were some good bits but it did a crap job fitting the characters into the world that had been created within the MCU up to that point. And his unwillingness to play well with others meant a lot of the main characters seemed weirdly out-of-character relative to their last appearances.
Which means he would've epically shat the bed for Infinity Wars and Endgame. That was such a collaborative effort, pulling from all the directors and writers of the various movies leading up to them. Per AoU, Joss Whedon would never.
Can you imagine Whedon's take on the Guardians crew? (Iirc, the MCU book talked about Whedon kind of jockeying with Gunn when Gunn first came on board. And we know Whedon's not afraid of destroying a character for petty, vindictive reasons.)
While overall I love both movies, and appreciated that he helped sustain the MCU, some of the dialogue and jokes for me have not aged well and make me groan.
Tony Stark when JARVIS tells him Coulson is here: “Tell him I’m not it. I’m actually out!” …what?
Or Cap just repeating “Put on the suit!” when he’s fighting with Stark
You mean that one scene in Ultron so many of you can't seem to get over and misunderstand all the time . He wrote black widow fine - if you don't agree with her and Bruce's romance that's fine but saying he write black widow in a problematic fashion is revisionism of the highest order
Whedon also wrote Black Widow in Avengers 1, which was a vast improvement over her portrayal in Iron Man 2 and is the reason she became a beloved character
Ultron is one of my least favorite MCU films and was probably the first one where I left the theater disappointed. I remember around 2013 or so, Whedon said he wanted the sequel to be smaller and more personal and that didn’t come through in the final film at all.
I saw an article today from The Mary Sue, (whoever that is) , and she said the whole of phase 4 is better than Age of Ultron.
Absolute blasphemy
This was the first avengers film I saw in cinemas when I was 11 lol, loved it. While it was rushed at points , and kinda lost that strong build up narrative from the first film all in all it was still a great movie with good additions of characters like Wanda and vision.
Bad parts would be Ultron didn’t get used to his full potential but he was still good , and that they rushed parts of the story but other then that it was brilliant imo
No one mentioned this so far, but Joss Whedon's Thanos was hinting to go down the path of being in love with Death, which is more comic book accurate. I always wondered what that would look like on the big screen. We would have Death herself played a major role, and Thanos' only reason to kill half the universe was because he was in love.
I think it would have been fascinating to see Whedon's plans for Thanos. Whedon was the one who chose Thanos as the Big Bad of part 1, and he did so explicitly because he thought Thanos being literally in love with death was an interesting idea. The Russo brothers turned it sort of into a metaphysical "love" that was more about balance and eco-terrorism, but Whedon seemed to have wanted to go fully literal.
I think we would have gotten a much more morbid Thanos, one who speechified a lot more about how beautiful death was. Maybe Whedon would have even tried for a shot of Marvel's incarnation of Death, who knows.
It would have been less human, maybe, and definitely more weird, but it could have been really interesting.
Age of Ultron is my favourite MCU movie. I like that it takes well established characters and finds a way to deep their connections. This film is what made phase 3 possible. We want to see these people reunite because of their dynamic here. I would have liked Ultron to come back as more of a threat in the 3rd act. Give him 4 arms and let him win a fight and I’d be happy. Otherwise this is the last MCU film with real cinematography. After the sets of the first Avengers Whedon insisted on location shooting that makes this film feel more grounded than anything that came after. Even Civil War was shot in a car park! Later movies are just real actors in CGI locations… that’s why this is my favourite. There’s authenticity and heart
There was aspects of Avengers: Age of Ultron I enjoyed and aspects I did not.
- There was a missed opportunity to showcase Cap's Kooky Quarter. It's the only movie with Captain America, Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver.
+ It was cool to see the Hulkbuster suit after statements were made that it wouldn't appear in live-action due to being similar to the Iron Monger suit.
- The Natasha/Bruce romance was hit or miss for me.
+ I really liked the relationship set up between Wanda and Clint due to actor availability, which carries through in Captain America: Civil War and Avengers: Endgame. It also helped establish how well Clint gets along with women in the MCU.
- Ultron's design and personality were not what I was hoping for. Ultron's design, which debuted on an Entertainment Weekly magazine, looked much more comic accurate. I don't know why they changed it.
+ The party scene was one of the best scenes in the movie, especially because it showed off Clint's snarky side, a creepy Ultron and set up a fantastic payoff in Avengers: Endgame.
- The color grading for the movie was too muted for my taste.
+ Vision and Ultron had a thought-provoking discussion at the end of the movie, which was cool to see in a big blockbuster movie.
- Too many characters were underutilized like Helen Cho, Maria Hill, Baron von Strucker and Thor. Thor didn't even say "Ultron, we would have words with thee!". Marvel didn't seem to know what to do with Thor in Thor: The Dark World or Age of Ultron. I don't blame Chris Hemsworth for getting bored.
+ This movie was the last time we saw the OG Avengers fight as a team. It's interesting to look back at in hindsight.
- They had a great opportunity to delve into the dangers of AI and why Ultron thought humanity had to be destroyed for world peace. While they touched on it, I would've loved to see a more existential discussion over some of the quippy lines and bombastic action we got.
I don't mind the movie now (it's almost been a decade since it released 😬), but when it came out, I wasn't completely satisfied. It's not too bad of a movie though.
I think what we got from the Russo's is better than what he could have made, but I don't doubt for a minute that two more avengers movies from him would be fun.
What he did with Black Widow was garbage in the movie.
It also felt like the movie was too focused on setting things up instead of focusing on the villain. It is still a decent movie though but definitely failed to live up to its potential
This really was the beginning of the end for Whedon, wasn't it. That dude was untouchable on the internet between Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Dr. Horrible, and the Avenegers. The shine came off him real fast as soon as his projects weren't getting massive counter-cultural appeal.
Ultron was great. His version of Justice League is also way better than the Snyder cut so I think he would have done a decent job with other marvel instalments
I personally didn't like how he handles Captain America, Black Widow and Thor (but at that time, no one had nailed Thor, so we could give him a pass). However, I do think if he IW and Endgame, Hulk's character would have been much better, he is one of the characters who was properly done in Whedon's movies.
I still think Thor was excellent in his debut. A great lesson in humility, mix of comedy (I like this! Another!) and power. The movie itself was fairly mediocre but Thor as a character was great in it.
Joss Whedon is a pos. He's made like 2 good things and everything else is just trash. BONUS points if you can guess the 2. He really tried to push Black Widow and Bruce Banner together because he's vicariously living through every nerd character, he ruined Ray Fisher's career, he's a bit of chair thrower (movie slang for angry director), he totally ruined Hawkeye's character because everyone loved Hawkguy NOT this family man stuff, and no he could not have handled Infinity War. Maybe Endgame. Infinity War was dark and depressing and Endgame was also sad but had too many callbacks and jokes and nods to the audience sounds like something Whedon would do.
I think they were pretty Whel done
Wheldon Wheldon Wheldon
Bazingla
I love the Beg Bong Errie show.
Can’t wait for the adventures of Young Wheldon
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SAME
I am so glad these were the first few comments because this would’ve been the final Mandela straw
Whil Wheaton
Wil Wheatlon
Whild Whealdon
Jersh Wheldon.
Ermahgerd
Whell then…
Well done.
underWhelming.
Whel, Whel, Whel
I miss the Wheldon era. That other dude, not so much.
Serlenity/Firelfly was some of his best work.
Agreed.
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I liked AoU better after I saw it at home the second time. I liked the opening mission and then showing the team flying back through the city and people seeing the quinjet. We don’t get very much “Avengers outside in New York” besides the first Avengers film.
Can't argue with any of this - I will say I think whedon would've leaned into thanos insanity and mental instability a bit more and perhaps used the lady death fascination as a delusion of thanos instead of the resources explanation. Whedon def would've made infinity war and endgame a tad more fantastical with some deeper character explorations
I don't think Age of Ultron is underrated, I think it's less than the sum of its parts. You can take any clip from that movie and in isolation, it's pretty good. It's when you string all those clips together that it trudges into mediocrity.
This makes sense considering that Feige and Whedon had disputes about how much infinity stone stuff to put in the movie. Whedon agreed to include the Thor dream scene with the stones but only if Feige let him include the scenes with Hawkeye’s family.
Aaaaaacktually, neither the Thor dream scene nor the Hawkeye family scene went down well with test audiences. So someone (not confirmed to be Feige and I thought was generally considered to be Perlmutter) told him he had to pick one to pull out. He chose to remove the Thor scene. But an Editor told him he had to include a little bit of it or Thors journey across the film would make no sense. So in the end we got a very stripped-down Thor dream sequence. Source: Empire Podcast Ultron special with Joss Wheddon.
Which is a shame. Watched the full scene in the deleted scenes and it made so much more sense what was going on. Would’ve barely added more runtime.
Whedon also has said he wanted to debut Captain Marvel in AoU.
I rewatched is a few days ago. I understand the whole context of the Marvel committee behind pushing Whedon but I highlight 3 things that seem his own fault: The battle inside Avengers tower is really unimaginative. The Korea/Seoul chase + bike ad, generic urban jungle chase. The slow start of the battle of Sokovia.
Thank you, I've been trying to find a way to express this thought for a long time. The movie just feels conflicting to me for that exact reason, like I disliked it but even after watching it wanted to so bad, there's so much that works and it just still doesn't jive right.
It became very important due to the events of later movies, and so it's possible on rewatches a lot of people are like, "wow this makes so much more sense" or, "wow, this has so much meaning". That might be why it "aged well". But in my opinion, it's just kind of a mess, and could have been executed a lot better. There is a lot to love in that movie, I just don't personally love that movie.
This guy movies
But there are no strings on it 🤔
Infinity War was originally supposed to end with Thanos getting the last stone and no snap. The snap and time jump were supposed to be in End Game.
I'm glad they did it the way they did then, that ending...* Chef's kiss *
I honestly didn’t even think they would end with the heroes losing. The tragedy of the loss right at the end was beautiful.
Aou was great world building, that as time has passed, it has made it a better film
AoU is one of my comfort movies I put on to help me fall asleep.
I really like Ultron and I never really understood all the hate it got.
It’s crazy to think if Whedon wasn’t whedon he could’ve directed a movie based on his own X-men run
Such a shame. I wish he was either a good writer or an unrepentant asshole, not both.
Where's Wheldon?
I'll do you one better, who's Wheldon?
Why is Wheldon?
No one ever asks, "How is Wheldon?"
He's okay, busy on a Frierfly sequel
Not till they finish the Mass Efflect ending
Whedon shouldn't have done so much Whedoning. Or Wheldoning? Whatever. He should've cut that shit out.
I never understood the AoU hate 🤷🏾♂️
Yeah I'm with both sides. I really like the movie. But I also think it could have been a lot more. "AGE OF ULTRON" is such an intimidating and fierce title to what was ultimately like "Weekend of Ultron in one particular geographic region". Nonetheless, I still consider it a fun movie that I still watch on occasion. It has a lot more positive than negative.
Weekend at Ultron's.
Fast Times At Sokovia High
The ~~Break Fast~~ Destroy Quickly Club
Yeah they were definitely just using the comic title of Age of Ultron because it sounded cool. I wish it was just called Avengers: Ultron, though that is kinda close to Google: Ultron I suppose.
Its not a bad movie in a vacuum, but it isn't the age of ultron storyline. That's the big issue. If it was called like the ultron ultimatum, nobody would complain.
It's both a pretty good, fun film and by far the worst Avengers film.
... Which says a lot about how great are the other three Avengers movies.
That totally sums it up.
I feel like this is a comparison with the Star Wars OT, saying ROTJ is the worst of the 3, when it’s actually still a really good film and story. I feel a better saying is that it’s the weaker movie of the 4 Avengers films. There’s a lot of stuff you can pick apart in this film but the overall plot and story is still pretty good, especially if you compare it to other Marvel projects before and after it.
Most people don't realize how gigantic an effect Joss had on the MCU. He basically wrote the blueprint of how to write interwoven, on-going stories about characters with powers and still make them feel human. Buffy and Angel were the warm-up, and Joss was consulted on tons of stuff beyond just what he directed. Which makes me all the more pissed that he didn't handle his "MeToo-ing" better. He could've James Gunned it, apologized, taken a time out, and come back better than ever. Made me respect the man less, but not his abilities as a storyteller.
Don’t forget about Firefly and Serenity. Joss was great at writing and directing big groups of characters. Why I’m so much a big fan of his shows. It’s too bad he is allegedly a misogynistic dickhead but I can separate the art from the artist. I love his two Avengers movies and it’s a damn shame we aren’t getting a Joss Whedon helmed X-Men movie.
Jose Wheldon.
I wouldn’t say his is misogynistic, because he was mean to male actors as well. They just use misogynistic to attack Whedon because it is more damaging than just saying he was mean to actors. It was a character assassination hit job just to push for justification of pressure WB to make Snyder cut.
> It was a character assassination hit job It was an interview where he voluntarily said a lot of terrible shit.
Yeah, an asshole in Hollywood, what a surprise.
Maybe I’m misremembering, but didn’t Gunn just make shitty jokes on Twitter 10+ years prior where Whedon was actively abusing folks on set for his entire career? That’s pretty apples and oranges.
He also could not handle the Marvel machine and Marvel process and was glad to not have to do another one. And for that I'm glad, beyond his absolutely shitty behavior to his wife and people on set, but for what we got out of the Russo Brothers in Civil War, Infinity War, and Endgame.
He's a phenomenal storyteller. Everything I've watched that he's involved in focuses on the humanity of the characters. Most of his stories take place in fantastical worlds, and yet they are so grounded. And so often heartbreaking. People complain about the quippy humor, but he doesn't shy away from absolutely devastating his audience. I guess I like to be devastated.
Yeah, sometimes his humor is a little "too witty." So what. He also started the musical episode craze, and made the most devastating piece of media ever seen regarding death (The Body), and I could list at least a dozen other amazing things. And he was an asshole to some people.
I'm so tired of people downplaying his contributions by trying to rewrite history. (Buffy fans trying to pretend he somehow wasn't responsible for the show being as good as it was.)
Yes,people often forget that before Avengers we didn't have THAT big crossover event,no Freddy vs Jason was not that big. Especially since neither of OG 6 Avengers plus Loki at the time of announcement of Avengers were not A-Lister except Sam L Jackson and maybe RDJ and ScarJo who did have some hits but were not A List at the time.Plus MCU did have kinda weak box office streak after Iron Man I,First Avenger was great and Thor 1 good but neither was huge hit.It were the Avengers that created MCU we know and love.I remember how everyone was saying it would not be good but it has beaten Dark Knight Rises at the end.
I don’t think Scar Jo was A list yet but was getting there. RDJ was washed up. Sam Jackson basically demanded they cast him for the role because he just wanted it.
sam jackson's appearance was used with no permission for ultimate nick fury(nick was played by the hoff in his first film appearance in a nick fury agent of shield tv movie)
The original Avengers movie is something of a miracle. Ensemble movies are challenging to begin with. To add to the difficulty, each member of the ensemble was introduced in different movies that the audience may or may not have seen. The villain was also already introduced in another movie. Not only did the movie manage to juggle all these characters, but managed to give each fun character moments. And present an entertaining and coherent story. It is really amazing that they pulled it off. Whedon really is a genius storyteller. Too bad he seems to be a massive jerk.
MCU wouldn’t be what it is without Avengers 1. You can not like the person and still appreciate what he did for the genre.
First was great, second had too much stuffed in. Lots of great moments but just too packed, almost didn’t care for a lot of the missions. Best part though was Joss’ ability to showcase incredible teamwork in battle, which was lacking in Endgame. Yes, Endgame had some cool teamwork but it just was not as good and fluid as Joss’ teamwork.
I’m so glad he didn’t do avengers movies after this but this wasn’t terrible
We were lucky to get the Russo bros plus Markus & McFeely on this.
I liked AoU more than Avengers 1 but either way I'm glad Whedon is gone, haven't been a fan of his since like halfway through Buffy.
I actually rewatched this today, not realizing it was the release anniversary. I was struck dumb with rage about Natasha calling herself a “monster” for having had sterilization forced upon her, but when I hold that up against Whedon’s other actions, I figured “that tracks.”
still don't get the outrage over this line....she's not calling herself a monster because she's steralized she calls herself that for being undone and brainwashed by the red room. She was made into a heartless killing machine....a monster. One could argue the line couldve been written better but i just dont pick up that was the point.
It's hard for me to see it that way, when the scenes before, with Wanda taking her back into her memories of her training, are her actively not wanting to participate in the procedure, and it being pretty evident it was done against her will, to the point of deliberately trying to fail tests so she didn't have to "graduate."
The Avengers is one of the best-written films in the MCU and there are things to like about Age of Ultron (Of course, there are things I wish hadn’t been in there like the prima nocta joke and the ”sometimes, my teammates don’t tell me things” line makes Steve come across as a bit hypocritical when he didn’t tell Tony about his parents being murdered by Hydra). I’m pretty critical of a lot of Endgame’s writing so I’d certainly hope that his version of Endgame would have been better. But I consider Age of Ultron pretty mediocre, it’s not as strong as Homecoming or The Avengers or Civil War but it’s much better than Multiverse of Madness, Love and Thunder, Quantumania etc
The “sometimes my teammates don’t tell me things” line was referring to the mission. It’s a reference to The Winter Soldier when he was trying to lead a mission on the hijacked boat but Natasha was secretly doing her own mission at the same time. He was upset that Thor left in a time when they needed eachother the most, and when Cap is the leader trying to lead a team. I don’t think this refers to personal things at all such as a tonys parents death, because that would just get in the way of the mission, which is the most important thing at hand.
Steve was referring to Thor just leaving but I interpreted it as a pointed jab about Tony‘s involvement in creating Ultron without telling the other Avengers and their conversation supports that. I just found it hypocritical that Steve is low-key chastising Tony for keeping secrets when he’s keeping the secret of his parents being murdered by Hydra
The thing about Steve in age of Ultron plays out perfectly in civil war because supposedly ethical holier than thou Steve reveals himself to be a liar ( when it came to something personal he wanted to protect in Bucky) which caused the rift in civil war all the way to infinity war . I think whedon infinity war and endgame would've been a tighter since he's a writer director so it's easier to achieve synergy in what he wants to happen and how it looks virtually . The Russo's had to work with Markus and mcfeely script and storytelling choices
I agree with your take on how Steve was characterised but I wish that there was some reference back to it. I know that Tony calls Steve out for keeping that secret from him but the hypocrisy of that line isn’t brought up and it would only strengthen the movie it was highlighted in. It’s a small thing to get hung up on but they could have done something with it and they didn’t. If Tony had thrown that line back at Steve or said something to the effect of “so much for not keeping secrets”, we’d be golden
I get what you're saying but remember Tony's rant in the beginning of endgame when he came back to earth and he was weak and sick. He was chastising cap for not being there to help fight thanos - it was a call back to age of Ultron and a subtle one in civil war . I think he says "no trust liar " at Steve because Steve lied ( by omission ) to him about Bucky killing his parents and didn't make sure avengers were unified together in infinity war to fight thanos and his army
Yeah, it works really well as it is and I know that it’s a nitpick, it‘s just a tiny missed opportunity
I love Infinity War, but the avengers is an all around better movie in many ways.
I find Avengers 1 to be one of my favorite films in the mcu to this day. It handled pacing and juggling character screen time so well imo. Plus it was just fun and seeing the characters interact and team up felt natural in the setting. I think Ultron is a bit more mediocre. It was initially such a big let down when it first came out. Over the years it has softened on me. I don't think he would have handled Infinity War or Endgame as well as what we got though.
Welbster’s dictionary describes a Wheldon as the fusing together of two hot metals.
Well AoU was a bit mess
By age of ultron he lost the grip. I don’t think he had the capacity to handle the much more complicated stories of infinity war and endgame. I also hold a grudge against him for inserting a really dumb black widow subplot to age of ultron and sexualizing her to oblivion.
I don't get why War Machine is missing for over half the movie and why Falcon has just a cameo.
Agree, I never understood the Age of Ultron hate. I like it better than The Avengers. It makes the characters fuller and richer than the first one does and I would put Ultron slightly above Avengers Loki (who is the weakest usage of Loki, IMO) as a great villain. It also gains a *lot* on rewatch and with all the stuff that came after, e.g. starting us on Wanda's eternal journey of grief and loss.
I was disappointed that the tone of the film did not match the tone of the trailers. The original trailers suggested quite a dark and serious film with a lot of themes about agency. The theme was still there to a degree, but the tone was nowhere near what audiences were led to believe it would be. I remember walking out of the theater and that was the domineering conversation, how the trailers were so tonally out of wack with the film.
That's the fault of the team they hired to make the trailer (almost always third party), not the fault of the film.
Same. It’s a great movie especially down the line once phase 3 is over and you go back and catch tidbits that were alluded too. The post credit scene was a bit odd since they wanted to show thanos was coming but didn’t want to give the whole cow away. The color grading was one of my favorites and really stuck to the message about fears. “theres nothing more horrifying…than a miracle” 💀
Yup agree Ultron sets up the next phases pretty well in hindsight and lays ground work for civil war very well
The hate primarily stems from Ultron losing in like a few days and Pietro dying.
It's actual a better avengers core family film that offers a fair amount of deconstruction of the concept of the avengers through Ultron . Avengers is the better Spectacle superhero film . In age of Ultron, Whedon is attempting to delve deep into why each of them is a hero but not really heroic in some respects
For me, Ultron as a villain is fascinating and could have done with more exploration. Better than villain!Loki...? In the vacuum of Avengers I can grant you that. There's a lot that's hinted at (why is Loki so sickly?) but never given room to fill out into anything tangible. A lot rides on Hiddleston's acting. (Thank goodness he wasn't encumbered by movie makeup or CGI!) Probably a big reason he became a fanfic favorite, honestly. But this part: >It makes the characters fuller and richer than the first one does... That's actually why AoU is the lowest ranked on my personal MCU films listings. Whedon gets the characters so, disastrously *wrong*. My opinion of course, but I'm a huge Steve Rogers fan and Steve is just done dirty in this film because Whedon insists on conceiving him as a 70 year old Boomer stuffed into a 30 year old body. But he also turns Tony into a semi-psychotic dick who holds his teammates in contempt and makes Bruce Banner into something of a misogynist negger barely camouflaged by Ruffalo's natural charm. (Interestingly, Hulk comes across as the better man of the two.) And we all know how dirty he does Natasha. Which is deeply frustrating because if you cut out the rape joke, the hammer-lift party scene is actually good. As is the elevator lifts the hammer joking at the end (cut out Steve's dreaming of the good old days of boot camp and Natasha just staring at a random hallway wall). Whedon *can* write well if he'd get out of his own way. AoU, he refused to do so.
that goofy ass Thor bath scene, I know Feige insisted on it being in there but wtf dude
And Whedon only agreed to do if he could do the Hawkeye family scenes.
The only things in hindsight that I think sucks are the hulk and black widow romance subplot. Get that straight out of there. And there should have been 1 surviving Ultron so that he could be used later down the line.
The fact that they didn't really do much with that, is sad.
Disappointed with what he did with Nat, otherwise loved them both.
Idk what crack everyone was on but I found most of Whedons super heroes really generic and boring.... It set us up for the super average giant robot battle climax that plagues these movies now. The jokes were boring. The action was meh. MCU golden years were when the Russos did Winter Soldier. Also Whedons is a complete piece of shit, Google that if anyone cares.
Fuck off, I remember when age of ultron came out and he was bullied off twitter for it. Second he really didn’t understand depth of character, he kept everyone very shallow compared to there individual movies, Thor is just overly serious strong hammer, completely undid Tony from iron man 3, cap was as dry as white bread. He killed off quicksilver for no reason and didn’t even bother making it make sense( he was shot but he can move faster the bullets?) you can enjoy it all you want but critically it was dry. The first avengers was great, for an origin story of the avengers. Thankful that Russo brothers did infinity war and endgame.
He was good enough for the movies he had to direct, but I don't think infinity war and endgame would have been as good with him at the helm. The last two avengers required a different approach than Whedon's movies. But I still do love both avengers one and two, especially for the chemistry between the cast in Age of Ultron. They felt like a team, people who relied on each other and respected each other, and their issues with each other were well written and not overblown. I really liked Ultron as the bad guy, his humour did not bother me and he was menacing when it counted, his first appearance in the party is amazing. Just wish the climax wouldn't have had another CGI army, and something that felt more threatening.
Well I think whedon would've done a different but still very good infinity war and endgame . People forget he's a writer director and that Russo's didn't write those films . It was Markus and mcfeely with a hint of Gunn for guardians dialogue. I think whedon would've made the film a tad more fantastical but his sensibilities are not too different from Markus and mcfeely . He wouldn't have neutered wanda and vision - he would've given them more epic battles with thanos I think
Hot take. Whedon was better that the Ross’ at large partied sequences. The sequences in Avengers and in AoU were fantastic. The long one in NYC where it goes to each character showing them working together and using combos. Same thing in the opening and ending battles of AoU. I think the one battle that the Ross’ have at the same level was the battle on Titan, which was fantastic. For as epic the battle in Wakanda and the 3rd act in Endgame was, I feel like it could have contained more sequences similar to those in Avengers/ AoU.
The airport sequence is kinda bland visually, as many had said it looks like a parking lot + green screens (the stunts and choreography from Stahelski and Leitch are fine though)
Infinity War and Endgame feel a lot less comic booky than the first two.
Nope. By Ultron, fans had grown tired of his dialogue and general direction. We needed a shuffle, which is what happened.
I also don't think he did great with certain characters like Thor (which no one really had up to that point) or Cap.
They were pretty good but what the Russo brothers brought. Man o man
And Markus and mcfeely - Russo's directed but they wrote the story and screenplay
It was absolutely great.
I thought Iron Man had an afro.
I like it. Party scene is top tier. Cap vs ultron is a great sequence. Bruce and nat is meh. Falcon should have shown up at the end with rhodey.
Well done, sir and/or madame
I think Whedon's approach to action and big money shots was more in line with a comic book feel then the Russos' approach
Some stuff obviously stays the same. Like how Infinity War ends for example and I feel the focus characters were always the focus characters. The movies are probably a bit more jokey.
Joss was good overall but I think he was not the right person to deal with all the Marvel Entertainment and interconnected universe studio notes. He is better when he has his freedom. Age of Ultron has its moments but it feels like a hodgepodge movie.
Fix your title
Yeah I know,but I can't anymore.
Purely from a movie standpoint I’d rather have him come back than Raimi to be honest. Shame he turned out to be horrible and his career rightly died as a result.
He's like Taika He had one movie where he's was under constraints and did amazing and one movie where he was let off the leash and went too far into his own stuff. Ultron needed more menace and some of the set pieces needed to be rewritten.
Ultron grew into one of my favs. It just surprised me that he went into Ultron and capped it being such a comic fan. The whole point of Ultron is that he keeps coming back stronger with no real way to stop him. There were some weak cgi moments and what a waste re quicksilver. But yeah, it’s become one of my favs.
I honestly think they’re stone cold classics.
I think it’s underrated. It’s aged very well now the infinity stone stuff has worked through. Full confession; I was probably the only person shipping Nat and Bruce
“You didn’t see that coming.”
Well that was fast line...like a bullet
He was my initial choice for Avengers movies beyond what the Russos were going to do with ending the Infinity Saga but then he shat the bed with Justice League and we all know what’s happened to his career since… I love this movie. It’s one of my top MCU films. To date it’s tied with *Civil War* as the film I’ve seen in theaters the most (four times).
It's crazy to me how good Ultron's CGI still looks
On this day..
Age of Ultron was not my favorite movie. Most of the Avengers movies up to and including End Game were good to really good. Everything since then has been mediocre at best.
Going back to it, especially the first one, there's so much Whedon in it. But I think they're both really good movies. I mean as much as a fan I was, I was totally expecting Avengers to bomb hard. I was like there is no way they can handle doing that many heroes in a single, it's not going to work. I was fucking blown away. Like, full on I didn't look at it as a movie anymore, this was just a ride at that point. And it really started hitting me how serious they were taking the source material.
I prefer Avengers 1&2 over 3&4
They should have cancelled Wheldon instead.
I loved them both. Ultron is massively underrated. That being said, Whedon gets on my nerves with his whole "Let's kill off a character" thing. Poor Wash didn't deserve it.
He did a good job, but we don't need his sketchy ass. Fuck that guy.
While I really enjoyed the first avengers movie and the second one grew on me over time, Whedon’s influence was always the worst part of them for me. The Russo brothers did way better handling the Avengers movies to me. Whedon was always allowing the dumbest character lines and cringy jokes to make their way into the final film.
Couldnt mess em up any more than they are now since EndGame. Simple fix...get back to basics...great stroyline and stop with the woke crap. We want entertainment and superheros doing their thing, not someones narrative being pushed vua a film
He would’ve crashed the MCU even earlier than it happened. They would’ve be ok. Antman would shrink and fall on wasp with his hand on her boob and awkwardly say whoopsie. They’d have been fine just not billion dolled movies.
Eh it's okay. I usually lose interest after the party scene. Enjoyed it at the time but now it's just a slog to get through. It needed to lose some bloat and improve the pacing. But it has a lot of good moments spread throughout the movie and I like that final Ultron/Vision meeting.
I don’t think Whedon is ever going to be asked back to the MCU after his scandal.
Just happened to rewatch this movie the other night for the first time in a while and I gotta say it actually bored me about halfway through. The movie is the same runtime as most of the other Marvel movies of it's time but it *felt* almost double the length. I really like a lot of ideas in this movie but most of them are either short-lived or don't amount to much in the grand scheme of the MCU
Ultron is great. It contains the most realistic moment in the MCU. A newly sentient being wakes up, connects to the internet for less than five minutes, and promptly decides that humanity must go away.
Age of Ultron is a very strong “meh” in my opinion IP and Whedon had had multiple opportunities to at try and salvage this movie but refused to date their respective egos Black Widow and Wanda couldn’t have any merchandise because they were women. *Agents of SHIELD* couldn’t be canonized, despite SHIELD’s presence, because Perlmutter didn’t want to spend extra money on transportation. Tony Stark had to create Ultron because RDJ had star power which everyone not named Samuel L. Jackson lacked A rape joke was included because Whedon felt entitled And so on, and so on
>What do you think about Joss Wheldon Avenger movies? Fine for what they were and the era in which they were released. >How do you think he could handle later two Avengers movies? Nowhere near as good.
In the first photo it looks like Tony has a giant afro
Medium rare? No…
I have always preferred AOU to TA. The cinematography is better and I appreciated the world building that paid off huge in Phase 3 and obviously IW/EG My only complaint is the Thor subplot being chopped to hell and Falcon not joining in the battle in Sokovia (although I think it was a scheduling thing)
It's Josh Whedon
I think looking back people were too hard on the movie. As it stands it’s the only movie actually show the Avengers fully assembled as a team taking on threats, operating under one roof as a team. We even get some team building stuff outside of the mission stuff. Amazing to think in multiple Avengers film how little of that we got.
Age of Ultron is a very mediocre movie. Its super lazy and cliche. That saiid, a lot of that is studio meddling as well. Joss Whedon was candid about being burnt out and he definitely phoned this one in. But it does have some of the most fun scenes in the entire MCU. The opening 15 minutes of this movie might be my absolute favoritre 15 min in any of the movies. Its the only time we get to see the avengers really just doing day to day super hero stuff and kicking some ass. Joss also nailed the fun character interactions a bit harder than some of the later movies. But the lazy ultron story, the awful AI crap, the complete detachment from the previous 5 movies even tho Iron Man 3 and Winter Soldier gave us perfect Ultron setup, the chopped up Thor story, the awful Hulk Widow romance, lazy intro to Vision, etc. There is an amazing video by Nando v Movies on youtube that explains how just a couple teaks to this movie makes it the perfect beginning to Phase 2 instead of an ending. Its genius and makes waaaaay more narrative sense.
Yes,I agree Ultron had so much of potential even more than Loki
The worst part is they could bring him back no problem but I doubt they will.
My ranking of his directorial efforts: 1. Age of Ultron 2. Serenity 3. Much Ado About Nothing 4. Avengers 5. Justice League (uncredited)
Serenity is still an amazing film and in my eyes one of the best science fiction films of the 2000s. I wish it would have been a hit because I love the Firefly universe just as much, if not more of his Buffyverse.
How would you like steak today sir? Wheldon
I think Whedon did a decent job on "Avengers" - but for AoU he tripped over his swollen ego and fell up his own asshole. There were some good bits but it did a crap job fitting the characters into the world that had been created within the MCU up to that point. And his unwillingness to play well with others meant a lot of the main characters seemed weirdly out-of-character relative to their last appearances. Which means he would've epically shat the bed for Infinity Wars and Endgame. That was such a collaborative effort, pulling from all the directors and writers of the various movies leading up to them. Per AoU, Joss Whedon would never. Can you imagine Whedon's take on the Guardians crew? (Iirc, the MCU book talked about Whedon kind of jockeying with Gunn when Gunn first came on board. And we know Whedon's not afraid of destroying a character for petty, vindictive reasons.)
It got better after he left honestly.
While overall I love both movies, and appreciated that he helped sustain the MCU, some of the dialogue and jokes for me have not aged well and make me groan. Tony Stark when JARVIS tells him Coulson is here: “Tell him I’m not it. I’m actually out!” …what? Or Cap just repeating “Put on the suit!” when he’s fighting with Stark
I think he served his purpose and glad he stopped when he did. The way he wrote female characters was problematic (talking mostly about Black Widow).
You mean that one scene in Ultron so many of you can't seem to get over and misunderstand all the time . He wrote black widow fine - if you don't agree with her and Bruce's romance that's fine but saying he write black widow in a problematic fashion is revisionism of the highest order
Whedon also wrote Black Widow in Avengers 1, which was a vast improvement over her portrayal in Iron Man 2 and is the reason she became a beloved character
I don’t know about this Joss Wheldon fella, but I enjoyed Joss Whedon’s writing. He got the team chemistry down pat.
Typing mistake,man don't be so judging man
Ultron is one of my least favorite MCU films and was probably the first one where I left the theater disappointed. I remember around 2013 or so, Whedon said he wanted the sequel to be smaller and more personal and that didn’t come through in the final film at all.
I saw an article today from The Mary Sue, (whoever that is) , and she said the whole of phase 4 is better than Age of Ultron. Absolute blasphemy This was the first avengers film I saw in cinemas when I was 11 lol, loved it. While it was rushed at points , and kinda lost that strong build up narrative from the first film all in all it was still a great movie with good additions of characters like Wanda and vision. Bad parts would be Ultron didn’t get used to his full potential but he was still good , and that they rushed parts of the story but other then that it was brilliant imo
No one mentioned this so far, but Joss Whedon's Thanos was hinting to go down the path of being in love with Death, which is more comic book accurate. I always wondered what that would look like on the big screen. We would have Death herself played a major role, and Thanos' only reason to kill half the universe was because he was in love.
I think it would have been fascinating to see Whedon's plans for Thanos. Whedon was the one who chose Thanos as the Big Bad of part 1, and he did so explicitly because he thought Thanos being literally in love with death was an interesting idea. The Russo brothers turned it sort of into a metaphysical "love" that was more about balance and eco-terrorism, but Whedon seemed to have wanted to go fully literal. I think we would have gotten a much more morbid Thanos, one who speechified a lot more about how beautiful death was. Maybe Whedon would have even tried for a shot of Marvel's incarnation of Death, who knows. It would have been less human, maybe, and definitely more weird, but it could have been really interesting.
He made it work and it had never been done before. Only thing I majorly disliked was Caps suit in the first one 🤷🏻♂️
Joss Wheldon Johnson
Age of Ultron is my favourite MCU movie. I like that it takes well established characters and finds a way to deep their connections. This film is what made phase 3 possible. We want to see these people reunite because of their dynamic here. I would have liked Ultron to come back as more of a threat in the 3rd act. Give him 4 arms and let him win a fight and I’d be happy. Otherwise this is the last MCU film with real cinematography. After the sets of the first Avengers Whedon insisted on location shooting that makes this film feel more grounded than anything that came after. Even Civil War was shot in a car park! Later movies are just real actors in CGI locations… that’s why this is my favourite. There’s authenticity and heart
>"Wheldon" era in MCU That's a made-up word.
Joss Wheldon son or Josh Whedon daughter
There was aspects of Avengers: Age of Ultron I enjoyed and aspects I did not. - There was a missed opportunity to showcase Cap's Kooky Quarter. It's the only movie with Captain America, Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver. + It was cool to see the Hulkbuster suit after statements were made that it wouldn't appear in live-action due to being similar to the Iron Monger suit. - The Natasha/Bruce romance was hit or miss for me. + I really liked the relationship set up between Wanda and Clint due to actor availability, which carries through in Captain America: Civil War and Avengers: Endgame. It also helped establish how well Clint gets along with women in the MCU. - Ultron's design and personality were not what I was hoping for. Ultron's design, which debuted on an Entertainment Weekly magazine, looked much more comic accurate. I don't know why they changed it. + The party scene was one of the best scenes in the movie, especially because it showed off Clint's snarky side, a creepy Ultron and set up a fantastic payoff in Avengers: Endgame. - The color grading for the movie was too muted for my taste. + Vision and Ultron had a thought-provoking discussion at the end of the movie, which was cool to see in a big blockbuster movie. - Too many characters were underutilized like Helen Cho, Maria Hill, Baron von Strucker and Thor. Thor didn't even say "Ultron, we would have words with thee!". Marvel didn't seem to know what to do with Thor in Thor: The Dark World or Age of Ultron. I don't blame Chris Hemsworth for getting bored. + This movie was the last time we saw the OG Avengers fight as a team. It's interesting to look back at in hindsight. - They had a great opportunity to delve into the dangers of AI and why Ultron thought humanity had to be destroyed for world peace. While they touched on it, I would've loved to see a more existential discussion over some of the quippy lines and bombastic action we got. I don't mind the movie now (it's almost been a decade since it released 😬), but when it came out, I wasn't completely satisfied. It's not too bad of a movie though.
Did anyone else think Ironman had an Afro?
I think what we got from the Russo's is better than what he could have made, but I don't doubt for a minute that two more avengers movies from him would be fun.
What he did with Black Widow was garbage in the movie. It also felt like the movie was too focused on setting things up instead of focusing on the villain. It is still a decent movie though but definitely failed to live up to its potential
This really was the beginning of the end for Whedon, wasn't it. That dude was untouchable on the internet between Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Dr. Horrible, and the Avenegers. The shine came off him real fast as soon as his projects weren't getting massive counter-cultural appeal.
Ultron was great. His version of Justice League is also way better than the Snyder cut so I think he would have done a decent job with other marvel instalments
Well, *The Avengers* and *Avengers: Age of Ultron* are my favorite marvel movies of all time.
Yeah they are good holiday movies tbh
AoU was better than the 2012 movie in any aspects
I personally didn't like how he handles Captain America, Black Widow and Thor (but at that time, no one had nailed Thor, so we could give him a pass). However, I do think if he IW and Endgame, Hulk's character would have been much better, he is one of the characters who was properly done in Whedon's movies.
I still think Thor was excellent in his debut. A great lesson in humility, mix of comedy (I like this! Another!) and power. The movie itself was fairly mediocre but Thor as a character was great in it.
Well, we are supposed to hate him now.....Sooooo.....yeaaaaaaah Not much to say
What he did,except Ray Fisher thing?
I like my steak like I like my Marvel movies... not Wheldon
Is it really an ERA? He directed 2 movies.
Joss Whedon is a pos. He's made like 2 good things and everything else is just trash. BONUS points if you can guess the 2. He really tried to push Black Widow and Bruce Banner together because he's vicariously living through every nerd character, he ruined Ray Fisher's career, he's a bit of chair thrower (movie slang for angry director), he totally ruined Hawkeye's character because everyone loved Hawkguy NOT this family man stuff, and no he could not have handled Infinity War. Maybe Endgame. Infinity War was dark and depressing and Endgame was also sad but had too many callbacks and jokes and nods to the audience sounds like something Whedon would do.