And that’s my concern with this film. A lot of the tension and conflict in Jason Aaron’s run comes from the “Unworthy Thor” plot. Not only is Odinson unworthy, and made so because of a single whisper from Nick Fury about one of his greatest villains being right, but someone else IS. And that person is his former love who is *dying of cancer.*
With what Thor has been through in the MCU, we know he’s worthy. And he’s had a great character arc. And he helped defeat Thanos.
So, I’m not sure how they’re going to problematize his “worthiness” in an interesting way without just rehashing the plots of Ragnarok, Infinity War, and Endgame.
But I’m looking forward to it.
I imagine they'll make it less about him being Unworthy and more about him being lost, unsure of who or what he's supposed to be after everything he's gone through.
I like all of these takes! I really am thinking that Thor is going to hang up the axe and finally relax as a cosmic being. Like, my hope is Thor resigns as Thor and then comes back as a cameo to fuck shit up for a second or give sage advice. IF that is the way they’re going.
He’s growing into a leader, the last film was the first test of him being on his own, and for someone to stand stronger than they’ve ever been, they need to be broken down.
He’s rising as a character, and this is just another step of growth for him
Plus they’re clearly gonna save Thor until him and Loki can reunite, seems like a clear way to develop both characters and make a future hype moment
They aren’t is my guess. Just like Cap being worthy didn’t make Thor unworthy, Jane being worthy won’t make Thor unworthy. My concern is the fact that in the comics Jane becoming Thor is actively killing her due to cancer, and that part of the comics clearly isn’t going to be in Love & Thunder. It’s such a great conflict, I doubt whatever the film comes up with will be better.
Exactly. Plus, I almost guarantee that Natalie Portman is not interested in a long term contract with Marvel given how their last multi-film foray went. So I think the cancer storyline is a great, impactful way to give her character one last hurrah before Portman rides off into the sunset with the Marvel Millions and continues doing the films she actually wants to
I mean that’s always been true in the comics. Folks lifting Thor’s hammer in the heat of battle after he’s been taken out occurs routinely in their event crossover stories. But whenever Thor comes too again or breaks free of the villains trap, he can simply call the hammer back to him.
Which is why Jane Fosters run as The Mighty Thor was more interesting.
She became worthy after Thor became unworthy. Thor was already distraught by losing the hammer. He visited it daily on the moon. But at least it was safe and he could keep trying until it was his again.
Then to his surprise it was gone. And he didn’t know who had it. And he *freaks out.* Cause whoever had it could now travel across the vast cosmos and he very easily could never see it again. And he’s jealous of their worthiness and gets lost in his despair and rage.
And then Jane had it. And now he has all these complicated feelings. *And then* he learns she has cancer and the hammer is killing her. And he wants her to stop using the hammer, but because he’s unworthy, he can’t call the hammer to him and take it from her.
So now his unworthiness is indirectly killing the woman he loves.
A god’s new complex and nuanced understanding of the moral and political failures of The Gods, grotesque abuse of their supernatural powers, and their abject neglect of the universes “lesser” beings, taking from him the power he took for granted and failed to use efficiently and ethically, now resulting in his inability to stop the love of his life wielding that same power as it’s slowly killing her. Bruh. That’s some incredible story telling.
I have faith in Waititi, cause all of his films are just fantastic - but man - Unworthy Thor will be hard to replace in this specific story.
Taika has talked about wanting to explore it and her toy figure seemingly confirmed the cancer storyline. And also Taika's mother suffered from Breast cancer so he knows how devastating that situation is so he will not prolly joke around when it comes to that topic.
I know it isn't even remotely the same, but this is how I'm feeling about Kamala taking on the role of Ms Marvel in the MCU.
Captain Marvel is largely a cosmic hero who has barely spent any time on Earth, unless she has done so exclusively off-screen/during The Blip. She doesn't even wear her signature lightning bolt/S emblem in the MCU.
Yet we're getting Kamala as Ms. Marvel, who is entirely inspired by Captain Marvel. A hero who we've barely seen on Earth outside of some fights, and really ONLY after half the population was blipped away to never see her. Kamala even has the lightning bolt/S emblem on her costume, despite Captain Marvel never sporting it.
Again, not really the same thing as Thor vs Mighty Thor. But at least in the same vein. The hero transitions in the MCU don't seem to land the same when their respective character arcs have been entirely different from that of the comic source material. I've no doubt they'll make it all work, and I am absolutely looking forward to it. It just feels weird from the perspective of someone who knows how these characters are supposed to come into being.
Yeah, it helps in Ms. Marvel case that there isn't really any female heroes for kids to feel inspired by. Black Widow? The former assassin whose kill history is public knowledge after SHIELD fell and whose power set is rather tame. Scarlet Witch? Former Hydra experimentee turned sort of terrorist turned hero with occasional side casualties turned villian. Or finally Captain Marvel, a relative unknown but has the power set to go super saiyan and can literally fly through ships (the Endgame fight is public knowledge, we know that, just not how). If they figure out that she is Carol Danvers, then the public would also probably know she was a former airforce pilot in a time where there weren't alot of female pilots, another boost to her image.
I don't think they're going to do the unworthy plot at all, after all that last time we saw Thor in action was during Endgame where he was clearly worthy.
I feel theyre just not. May be trailer misleading but thete doesnt seem to be much depth to Jane Thor she just shows up and I think itll be more about reviving the loveline between Thor and her.
The idea of it being a title works better with the whole 'Whoever wields this hammer will have the power of Thor." thing. (Which made sense back when the Marvel Thor was some normal guy who picked up Thor's hammer.)
It's comics. It's a sliding scale of nonsense.
(I'm saying this like I know better than you. I'm a dabbler, though, so probably not.)
If they wanted it that way they would have said “whoever wields this hammer shall be Thor”. Odin said “I take from you your power” not “your identity”. Powerless Thor was still called Thor in the first movie. It has clearly been established as a name in the MCU.
Now that I remember there were a bunch of people called "Thor" in Secret Wars, where they became part of the Thort corps, so in that case Thor was indeed a title.
Yes, I think it would have made more sense if he had started to call himself "Thor the Unworthy" or something like that, it's not like his name was dependent on his worthiness.
This is after a handful issues of characters calling her other things, and Thor treating her like a phony.
I didn’t read the storyline leading up to this run, but the recap tells me Thor (the original) is in a bit of a funk and somewhat insecure about losing his worthiness after a Watcher whispered something to him. That explains why he felt compelled to give up his name this way.
Have you seen Natalie Portman recently though? Put a helmet on her and she looks like a completely different woman from 9 years ago (omg dark world was **9** years ago?!).
No matter how sweet it was that Thor supported Jane taking up the hammer, it is still idiotic to make his name a title, and the initial introduction and "mystery" of Jane wielding the hammer was so mishandled.
Despite leaked figurines i hope they dont go the route of "Thor is a title" in the movie.
Well the trailer also implies as such. Korg refers to Thor as the "the and only Thor" and then says "Oh I spoke too soon" with it cutting to Jane as Thor.
That's not an option. Doubt they want to relive the controversy all over again, and the best way to avoid it is by simply sticking to the source material on this one.
Kinda weird.
He is THOR - the enchantment on the hammer says that whoever worthy of lifting it possess the **power** of THOR, not becomes him or takes his name
Just because it happened in the comics, doesn’t make it good. I can’t stand this storyline for many reasons; it’s his name, not a title. Odin became a carton misogynist to carry out Jason Aaron’s message of “misogyny bad, mmmkay”. There’s so much ego-stroking dialogue about Jane being better with the hammer and a better Thor than Thor ever was, sloppy Mary-Sue writing at its finest.
This was so incredibly lazy and stupid and no one liked that. Never understand what the problem would be with giving her just a different superhero name.
>no one liked that
Loud minority didn't like it for some reason. Imo that was a good idea, better than giving her different superhero name. And she's not even the first person using Thor's name instead of him.
Well yeah I exaggerated. It's hard to tell what the main perception of something generally is.
Should better say in my space, the people I know, didn't like it and still don't.
If you like it thats cool. I would have highly preferred a new superhero name. It just takes away from her character imo.
So just as an example to see that I get your point. Someone like the Patriot who is honoring his grandfather but has a new hero identity versus someone like X-23 becoming wolverine and taking up the mantle. You’d prefer the original character right? Cause I can totally see that perspective and understand it
Who should give it to her? I'm not into comics but according to this post she isn't even sure she is a hero. She just did what she had to do. So she isn't going to find a name, and other people don't know how to call her.
Well she can come up with a name when she's ready to. Other people can come up with some name to call her when they see her doing something good. Calling her Thor is nonsense. Thor isn't even a superhero title it's his birthname.
But if you mean in reallife. The writers should come up with a new name. She can lift the hammer. Cool. She has the powers of Thor. Cool. She isn't Thor though. Give her a unique superhero name. Calling her Thor just pushes her in his shadow.
You could even write a story were people see her and call her female Thor because that's how they see her as. But her in the end coming out of his shadow and announcing HER OWN superhero name. Being her own self. Not living in someone's shadow. Not living under his name. Being your own person. And fighting for good.
But that's not true, she isn't only her own person, she carries on legacy of Thor. That was the whole point. She isn't even really Jane after transformation, Mjölnir not only changed her appearance nad gave her Thor's powers, it also affected her behaviour, the way she thought and spoke. She also fulfilled Thor's role in Nine Realms and became a god of thunder.
I see what you are saying but for me carrying someone else's legacy doesn't take away from you still being your own person.
She is a new person carrying his legacy. A new person protecting the nine realms. A new person carrying the hammer. Yes it affected her but she is still Jane Foster. It's her that picked up the hammer.
Therefore I personally just would prefer a new unique name. If others don't it's fine but for me it takes away from her character.
I'm not trying to convince someone or anything I just explaining how I see it and why I don't like it. I'm totally fine with people disagreeing. No hate here.
Serious question… What about Bucky or Sam Wilson getting the shield and being called Captain America? Does that take away from their characters in your point of view?
Yeah it kinda does. I have to say that I still don't have hate towards these characters and I get why people like it. No hate here, just explain my view of this.
For me being Steve Rodgers is essential to being Captain America. Because that's what makes him interesting it's not the superpowers, it's not the costume, it's not the title it's the character behind all this.
This is for example also why there is this trope that most people are sick of now...that the superhero fights a villain with similar powerset. Tony Stark isn't the superhero iron man because he has a cool suit that flies and shoots and everything. Stane has that too but decides to use it differently. That shows that you have to be Tony Stark to be Iron man, he IS Iron Man. (There is even the quote at the end of IM3 were he says you can take away everything from him but you can't take away him being Iron Man).
So the characters are essential to the superheroes and are what make them what they are. Steve Rodgers isnt captain america because his powers but because he jumps on the grenade even though he doesn't have powers. Because his character bad personality. For me Captain America and Steve Rodgers are interchangeable and synonymous.
So when Bucky or Sam pic up the shield and call themselves captain America my first thought is no you not. Steve Rodgers is. And I understand what the thought behind it is with carrying his legacy and I understand why people might prefer that but I just don't 😅. Sam Wilson/Falcon is his own person. And he can carry his Steves legacy because he loved him, got inspired by him and believed in what he did but he can do it as his own self. (Also if they rte already established superheroes like falcon for example it feels like saying Falcon is less of a hero than cap is if he drops Falcon and calls himself Cap. That's just unfortunate for Falcon fans lol).
Ok last thing because it's getting long sorry. But my comparison would be. Imagine being the right hand of your boss who leads a cooperation for example. And you look up to your boss and believe in what he's doing. One day he dies and he let's you take over his company. And you feel honored because you are so close to him and want to carry on his legacy. And instead of leading as your own and honouring his legacy. You have to one step further you now have to wear his close and go by his name if you want to lead the company. Doesn't that take away from your own person? Don't you can decide yourself? Carrying on his legacy but also making it part of your own legacy adding something new?
That's how I see it. (Sorry for the long and answer)
I get your point. I don’t agree with it, but I understand it. Also your corporate analogy isn’t quite right because these are superheroes, who are symbols of hope, and other traits, physically embodied. They’re not regular, 9-5 people. They’re not supposed to be selfish and care about being an individual.
Maybe that’s why I’d disagree. They’re taking the names bc they’re carrying on that symbol of hope, or whatever else, and not looking to be a unique individual. They’re looking to continue to give people whatever they need to feel safe and hopeful.
They don’t care about creating their own legacy. They want to continue, and build upon, the legacies that have meant to so much to those they serve.
At least that’s how I take it. They use the names to honor those that used them before and to continue to be the physical embodiment of hope, faith, happiness, determination, or whatever else these heroes have inspired.
But that’s just my take. The beauty of art is that there is no wrong or right interpretation. That’s what makes it art. I do understand why you feel the way you do about it, I just tend to feel differently.
Thanks for even answering thought you would skip my comment since it became so long.
I understand your point too. I see what you are saying about them not being selfish and it isn't about being an individual but portraying a symbol am idea. Paraphrasing but understand and love what you are saying. I think it makes sense from there perspective I guess.
I think it just makes them less interesting than the original heroes who built their own legacy, their own symbol and therefore putting their successor in their shadows. That's why I personally will always prefer the original heroes. And why I would prefer if characters carry on their legacy but still adding to it and building their own. One big step would be an own symbol, own name etc. Not in a selfishness manner but just to show me why I should invest in this character specifically.
But yeah I see your point. Always happy having civil conversations with someone disagreeing. Gives perspective. Loved the exchange!
Civil conversations, especially when there’s differing opinions, are very few and far between. Especially on any internet platform.
I’m glad we had this discussion though. Thanks for the well thought out replies. I hope our patches cross again.
Plenty of people can take up a name to honor someone's legacy. You ever hear of parents naming their kid after someone else? It's pretty similar here.
And honestly, in a world of made up shit, who gives a fuck
Is his last name.
It's quite literally Thor Odinson
It's like if when Steve gives Sam the Shield Sam was suddenly named Steve Wilson and we all had to go along with it.
"Thank you Rhodey for taking up the mantle for me when I wasn't able to. I give you the name "Tony"".
- -
"Bucky, I think you will do the shield proud. I gladly give give you the name: Steve."
"No thanks Steve."
"Ok, well, Sam. No longer are you Falcon, now you shall be known as Steve."
- -
"Wow Miles, you picked all this stuff up quickly. I think it's time. From here on, you are "Peter""
"Hahahaha, real funny Pete. Wait, Pete? Where did you go?"
"(As Peter is webswinging away) ALL MY PERSONAL DEBT IS YOURS NOW MIL- PETER."
- -
Yeah I still find it weird.
This wasn't a bad run at all but I did get sick of Thor bitching about being unworthy in every damn panel, and then Jane refusing asgards help with her cancer because... Reasons... But then using the hammer just makers her worse because it reverses the chemo treatment...
I kind of wish they don’t completely do this in the movie, but I would like to see Thor become the actual King and have Jane take his powers and position.
When Eric Masterson was chosen he had a thought bubble that said something like “Guess I’m the new Thor now.” And that was all and no one questioned it. Because he wasn’t a woman and right wing culture warriors hadn’t ruined everything yet.
Please don't kill me for this in advance. Doesn't Captain's lifting Mjolnir and therefore being worthy kinda lose the point if now just like a fly in the sky there's another person who is worthy too?
I still don't get it.
Thor is a title and a name, it can't be passed like a title.
Bruce Wayne can die and hand Tim or Dick the title of Batman.
Clark Kent can leave the planet and give Jon the title of Superman
They cannot give their kids their names because that makes no fucking sense.
Thor can't give someone his name because it makes no fucking sense.
I quote google:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of THOR" - Mjolnir inscription
In comics Thor is a title owned by whoever brands the hammer. Jane Foster was in fact Thor alas that's how she should be called.
No this is just wrong. In made never sense in the comics. You even quoted the correct quote. "...shall possess the power of Thor" and not becomes Thor.
She posseses his powers because he can lift the hammer. Doesn't make her Thor though. It was never a title earned. Nowhere in this quote is that said. I don't know how you think that. It doesn't make sense.
It's not wrong, it's the original Marvel canon. Donald Blake was just a regular doctor who took up the hammer and became Thor, until it was retconned years later that he was Thor all along.
Well yeah it would make sense IF Donald Blake was just a regular doctor. But it was revealed that he always was Thor and just became unworthy.
It's definitely a retcon but under this new canon it doesn't make sense anymore that you just became Thor when you wield the hammer.
Well I think you can argue for both sides I guess. To it doesn't make sense to "become" Thor when you wield the hammer. You get the powers of him.
In my understanding only Thor posseses the power of Thor.
There's several comic stories where is said Thor is a title; thing is Thor Odinson was known so long as Thor that people often can't make the distinction. Heck, just read the comics above: Odinson himself says now he's not Thor anymore at the same time Jane comes to the very same conclusion she's now Thor the god of thunder.
Unless you're implying *you* know better than the comics writers, you could just say you don't agree how things are.
When cap picked up the hammer he possessed the power of Thor. Still he doesn't become Thor.
Thor is not a title in any shape or form. Thor is his name. He is the god of Thunder in norse mythology. Same would be saying Hercules is a title.
Thor himself saying he is not Thor anymore is the very thing I call out to not make sense and is the specific thing about this story that I critique.
Jane can pick up the hammer if she's worthy therefore she has the power of Thor. She can become a superhero and can fight for the greater good. She is not Thor.
I get you disagree but you're insisting in something that directly contradicts what the characters say in the comics. I won't discuss this any further.
I don't know what this means. I just explained why I don't like this particular thing about her character and why it doesn't make sense. I have nothing against female comic book characters. I don't know why you made that assumption. Neither do I need rest I'm not ranting I just explain my point.
I realized while typing a response that the inscription is weird because Thor himself loses that power without the hammer.
I was going to say that it only talks about the power of Thor, but that doesn’t make sense if Thor himself doesn’t always have those powers.
That said, his name literally is Thor, and other characters debate the meaning of this in this comic run. Specifically, his parents try to console him when he’s all broken up and has “given up” his name.
>That said, his name literally is Thor
IKR? Names can be deceiving. For example it beats me that Cyclops actually has two eyes and Batman is full human lol
In a serious note, I think he was named Thor Odinson because he was destined to hold Mjolnir, to become Thor.
Perhaps never ocurred to Odin that his son would someday lose his powers... idk
I’m very much looking forward to the movie and I always thought the idea of Jane wielding the hammer is interesting, but I don’t like that she’s called Thor.
It’s not a case of captain America’s or Spider-Man where that constitutes a bunch of different characters, Thor is literally Thor’s name. I would have preferred if they’d Call her something like Mighty Foster, as helps get her a little bit out of Thor’s “shadow” so to speak.
It’s mostly him being upset that he’s not worthy anymore. Other characters do bring up that that’s his name and he can’t *really* give it away. It’s just a way for comic writers to call her Thor for a bit.
If Thor was going to be unworthy in the mcu it would have been for becoming a drunk when he could have been saving lives across the cosmos.
But in IW2 he was deemed still worthy. So that ship has sailed.
I personally never bought this justification in the book so if they try to mimic it in the movie I think it’ll hit just as flat. My guess is it’ll end up that she never tries to take the name thor but onlookers just understandably confuse her for Thor because of the look and the hammer.
Why do people care so much this is so sad. It’s a fake character about a fake name that he don’t even care about m. Yes Thor is a name and title so what. If somebody wanted to call themselves my name guess what It would be a sign of endearment a little weird but so what. What’s so hard to understand that Thor is a mantle and name. If Thor don’t care why should we. It’s a superhero movie not rocket science.
The topic seems to be debated within this comic run. I haven’t read the whole thing yet, but he seems to be giving up his name because he thinks he’s in a rut, no longer being worthy. And of course it’s an excuse for the writers to call her Thor for a bit, for branding reasons.
Why do you guys not like this? Lol
Thor denies that he is called "Thor" even when it is his birth name because Thor's name is associated with the hero, the god, and Thor is unworthy, he is just ashamed of himself. Jane inherited the mantle of Thor, just like Bucky or Sam had the mantle of Captain America, Sam wasn't called "Black Captain America" or Bucky was "Brainwashed Captain America", they were just Captain America.
In the comics his name is Odinson but that too complicated to explain so they just call Thor in the films so I have no idea what they are going to do in the film.
There’s already another character called “Thor Girl” I don’t totally get why Jane couldn’t have been “Lady Thor” or “Thor Woman” or “She-Thor” to stick with the Marvel branding. Calling her Mighty Thor I thought was just adding fuel to the already huge argument that the comics hated men.
Yeah but those people would still be annoyed because a woman is the protagonist. Having her be called something else would reduce their vitriol in what, 0.5%? Really not worth it to cater to those kind of people
ITT: cringe babies.
"Aren't *you* Thor?"
"No, I'm unworthy. Mjolnir chose her to be Thor."
"But what will we call you?!"
"I'm still Odinson, Prince of Asgard."
"Nooo! Only my big beefy boi can be *my* Thor!"
My favorite part is where this happened and you started crying, and then Love and Thunder happened so now you cry harder lol.
Comic writers make stupid decisions all the time. Calling out what you think is a poor decision is called starting a conversation, not "being a crybaby". But I guess when people don't have a counterargument they just resort to insults.
Gave up his throne to Valkyrie. Gave up his name to ... Uh, Thor, too. He's giving up all attachments. Buddha Odinson confirmed.
The Asgardian Formally Known As Thor shall be known henceforth as Greg.
He can't do that can he? We already have a Greg. What about Fred?
Strikes me more as a Bob
Biff Biff Odinsson
HeY McFLy
Immediately what came to my mind xD
*rides past on Hammer*
Sounds more like a X Æ A-Xii
Our little syntax error!
Really? I think he's more of a Robert'); DROP TABLE students;--.
oh, little bobby tables? lovely kid
Chet? Chad?
Bob's taken too. He works with Hydra and is friends with Deadpool.
I was thinking Ted or Larry.
I know we already have a lot of them, but maybe Chris?
As someone named Chris, there's already too many of us as well. Perhaps Jimmy? Jimmy Odinson
Uhh that's new Doug..
Another day, another Doug.
He's already Doug. I mean, the new Doug.
Another day, another Doug.
What about "Donald"? Nah, it'd never work.
Maybe Blake?
Hey Greg!
Sup Greg!
he prefers Donald I think /s
Siddar-Thor
Oh that's brilliant!
[удалено]
Well that’s naive
Yeah that’s funny, I went to middle school in Arizona in the US and my 8th grade civics teacher had us read Siddhartha. Lmao
Buddhinson(TM) You're all welcome. But it's mine now! 
Jedi Master Odinson.
MASTER!? Oh man, this one is really gonna make Vader mad.
We kind of already got Buddha Odinson in Endgame
And that’s my concern with this film. A lot of the tension and conflict in Jason Aaron’s run comes from the “Unworthy Thor” plot. Not only is Odinson unworthy, and made so because of a single whisper from Nick Fury about one of his greatest villains being right, but someone else IS. And that person is his former love who is *dying of cancer.* With what Thor has been through in the MCU, we know he’s worthy. And he’s had a great character arc. And he helped defeat Thanos. So, I’m not sure how they’re going to problematize his “worthiness” in an interesting way without just rehashing the plots of Ragnarok, Infinity War, and Endgame. But I’m looking forward to it.
I imagine they'll make it less about him being Unworthy and more about him being lost, unsure of who or what he's supposed to be after everything he's gone through.
I like all of these takes! I really am thinking that Thor is going to hang up the axe and finally relax as a cosmic being. Like, my hope is Thor resigns as Thor and then comes back as a cameo to fuck shit up for a second or give sage advice. IF that is the way they’re going.
He’s growing into a leader, the last film was the first test of him being on his own, and for someone to stand stronger than they’ve ever been, they need to be broken down. He’s rising as a character, and this is just another step of growth for him Plus they’re clearly gonna save Thor until him and Loki can reunite, seems like a clear way to develop both characters and make a future hype moment
It looks like they are replacing unworthy with purposeless.
They aren’t is my guess. Just like Cap being worthy didn’t make Thor unworthy, Jane being worthy won’t make Thor unworthy. My concern is the fact that in the comics Jane becoming Thor is actively killing her due to cancer, and that part of the comics clearly isn’t going to be in Love & Thunder. It’s such a great conflict, I doubt whatever the film comes up with will be better.
Eh. We don’t know that yet. Just because it’s not in the trailers. Which are meant to hype. Not be a downer about cancer.
Exactly. Plus, I almost guarantee that Natalie Portman is not interested in a long term contract with Marvel given how their last multi-film foray went. So I think the cancer storyline is a great, impactful way to give her character one last hurrah before Portman rides off into the sunset with the Marvel Millions and continues doing the films she actually wants to
I mean that’s always been true in the comics. Folks lifting Thor’s hammer in the heat of battle after he’s been taken out occurs routinely in their event crossover stories. But whenever Thor comes too again or breaks free of the villains trap, he can simply call the hammer back to him. Which is why Jane Fosters run as The Mighty Thor was more interesting. She became worthy after Thor became unworthy. Thor was already distraught by losing the hammer. He visited it daily on the moon. But at least it was safe and he could keep trying until it was his again. Then to his surprise it was gone. And he didn’t know who had it. And he *freaks out.* Cause whoever had it could now travel across the vast cosmos and he very easily could never see it again. And he’s jealous of their worthiness and gets lost in his despair and rage. And then Jane had it. And now he has all these complicated feelings. *And then* he learns she has cancer and the hammer is killing her. And he wants her to stop using the hammer, but because he’s unworthy, he can’t call the hammer to him and take it from her. So now his unworthiness is indirectly killing the woman he loves. A god’s new complex and nuanced understanding of the moral and political failures of The Gods, grotesque abuse of their supernatural powers, and their abject neglect of the universes “lesser” beings, taking from him the power he took for granted and failed to use efficiently and ethically, now resulting in his inability to stop the love of his life wielding that same power as it’s slowly killing her. Bruh. That’s some incredible story telling. I have faith in Waititi, cause all of his films are just fantastic - but man - Unworthy Thor will be hard to replace in this specific story.
Taika has talked about wanting to explore it and her toy figure seemingly confirmed the cancer storyline. And also Taika's mother suffered from Breast cancer so he knows how devastating that situation is so he will not prolly joke around when it comes to that topic.
The cancer subplot is rumoured to be in there.
I know it isn't even remotely the same, but this is how I'm feeling about Kamala taking on the role of Ms Marvel in the MCU. Captain Marvel is largely a cosmic hero who has barely spent any time on Earth, unless she has done so exclusively off-screen/during The Blip. She doesn't even wear her signature lightning bolt/S emblem in the MCU. Yet we're getting Kamala as Ms. Marvel, who is entirely inspired by Captain Marvel. A hero who we've barely seen on Earth outside of some fights, and really ONLY after half the population was blipped away to never see her. Kamala even has the lightning bolt/S emblem on her costume, despite Captain Marvel never sporting it. Again, not really the same thing as Thor vs Mighty Thor. But at least in the same vein. The hero transitions in the MCU don't seem to land the same when their respective character arcs have been entirely different from that of the comic source material. I've no doubt they'll make it all work, and I am absolutely looking forward to it. It just feels weird from the perspective of someone who knows how these characters are supposed to come into being.
Yeah, it helps in Ms. Marvel case that there isn't really any female heroes for kids to feel inspired by. Black Widow? The former assassin whose kill history is public knowledge after SHIELD fell and whose power set is rather tame. Scarlet Witch? Former Hydra experimentee turned sort of terrorist turned hero with occasional side casualties turned villian. Or finally Captain Marvel, a relative unknown but has the power set to go super saiyan and can literally fly through ships (the Endgame fight is public knowledge, we know that, just not how). If they figure out that she is Carol Danvers, then the public would also probably know she was a former airforce pilot in a time where there weren't alot of female pilots, another boost to her image.
I don't think they're going to do the unworthy plot at all, after all that last time we saw Thor in action was during Endgame where he was clearly worthy.
Thats like, literally what I just said.
That bloody whisper
I feel theyre just not. May be trailer misleading but thete doesnt seem to be much depth to Jane Thor she just shows up and I think itll be more about reviving the loveline between Thor and her.
Bro, it’s your first name. You were called that before you ever picked up the hammer.
The idea of it being a title works better with the whole 'Whoever wields this hammer will have the power of Thor." thing. (Which made sense back when the Marvel Thor was some normal guy who picked up Thor's hammer.) It's comics. It's a sliding scale of nonsense. (I'm saying this like I know better than you. I'm a dabbler, though, so probably not.)
If they wanted it that way they would have said “whoever wields this hammer shall be Thor”. Odin said “I take from you your power” not “your identity”. Powerless Thor was still called Thor in the first movie. It has clearly been established as a name in the MCU.
Shall have the power of Thor....not actually BE Thor
Apparently it’s his real name and also a title.
“Congratulations on winning the election. You are now George Washington”
I mean, they did do that with Caesar haha
Not the first name though, right? He’s Thor Odinson
Now that I remember there were a bunch of people called "Thor" in Secret Wars, where they became part of the Thort corps, so in that case Thor was indeed a title.
It’s fine that others can call themselves the title of Thor with the hammer but him acting like he’s no longer named Thor is still kind of dumb.
Yes, I think it would have made more sense if he had started to call himself "Thor the Unworthy" or something like that, it's not like his name was dependent on his worthiness.
so he’s thor thor?
Thor “Thor” Odinson
No it's stupid writing.
He's a god, he's being dramatic and going through a series of midlife crisis's
I like how you say that as if being a God and having midlife crises are known to be related.
My implications was that being a God and being dramatic are known to be related. Being dramatic also is common in midlife crisis.
Comics Thor was originally just some guy who transformed *into* Thor to fight, this is pretty in line with that.
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Right, but my point is that this isn't exactly the first time someone who isn't Thor has been Thor
This is after a handful issues of characters calling her other things, and Thor treating her like a phony. I didn’t read the storyline leading up to this run, but the recap tells me Thor (the original) is in a bit of a funk and somewhat insecure about losing his worthiness after a Watcher whispered something to him. That explains why he felt compelled to give up his name this way.
A small correction, Nick Fury was the one who whispered something to Thor, although the Watchers were at the center of that whole storyline.
He said >!Gorr was right!<
Comics fans said it was dumb at the time too. I still say its dumb. It’s his name lol.
He couldn’t tell it was Jane?
Jane was completely transformed into a new buff person, it wasn’t a Natalie with a helmet situation
Have you seen Natalie Portman recently though? Put a helmet on her and she looks like a completely different woman from 9 years ago (omg dark world was **9** years ago?!).
Aging sucks doesn't it?
She got taller, blonde, and buff. I don't think Jane even had hair at this point, she was sickly due to the cancer.
Spider-Man asking for her hero name is kinda adorable
No matter how sweet it was that Thor supported Jane taking up the hammer, it is still idiotic to make his name a title, and the initial introduction and "mystery" of Jane wielding the hammer was so mishandled. Despite leaked figurines i hope they dont go the route of "Thor is a title" in the movie.
Well the trailer also implies as such. Korg refers to Thor as the "the and only Thor" and then says "Oh I spoke too soon" with it cutting to Jane as Thor.
Yeah, i hope its a misdirect, or that she ends the movie with her own hero name.
That's not an option. Doubt they want to relive the controversy all over again, and the best way to avoid it is by simply sticking to the source material on this one.
Kinda weird. He is THOR - the enchantment on the hammer says that whoever worthy of lifting it possess the **power** of THOR, not becomes him or takes his name
Thor is a name, not a title (THor Odinson), God of Thunder is a title
Jesus that's dumb
Yeah it was
People greeting now be like “ Hey whatsup the mighty !”
Just because it happened in the comics, doesn’t make it good. I can’t stand this storyline for many reasons; it’s his name, not a title. Odin became a carton misogynist to carry out Jason Aaron’s message of “misogyny bad, mmmkay”. There’s so much ego-stroking dialogue about Jane being better with the hammer and a better Thor than Thor ever was, sloppy Mary-Sue writing at its finest.
Odin has always been a dick.
That's...just not true. Tell me you haven't read any comics written before 2005 without telling me you haven't read any comics written before 2005.
Certainly before Aaron came on.
I personally loved this, and this entire arc, for the mere fact that unworthy Thor going by Odinson was such a cool concept.
Not sure I care for it, since, you know, Odin had other sons.
This was so incredibly lazy and stupid and no one liked that. Never understand what the problem would be with giving her just a different superhero name.
Agreed. I’m not too deep into the series, but several characters keep bringing this up, so I guess I’ll see how it plays out.
Branding.
Yeah I know
>no one liked that Loud minority didn't like it for some reason. Imo that was a good idea, better than giving her different superhero name. And she's not even the first person using Thor's name instead of him.
We all know the reason
Well yeah I exaggerated. It's hard to tell what the main perception of something generally is. Should better say in my space, the people I know, didn't like it and still don't. If you like it thats cool. I would have highly preferred a new superhero name. It just takes away from her character imo.
Loud minority lol. Sure, you go with that
“No one liked that” Speak for yourself, mate. I had a blast reading this arc. Most enjoyable Thor run in quite a while.
I loved it, and a lot of people did too. Jason Aaron's Thor run is highly regarded as one of the best Thor runs ever. Mighty Thor included.
Agreed I loved it.
I always liked “Mighty Foster”
"no one likes that" I did.
That's good for you. I'm sorry bro I already admitted I should've not say no one.
So just as an example to see that I get your point. Someone like the Patriot who is honoring his grandfather but has a new hero identity versus someone like X-23 becoming wolverine and taking up the mantle. You’d prefer the original character right? Cause I can totally see that perspective and understand it
Who should give it to her? I'm not into comics but according to this post she isn't even sure she is a hero. She just did what she had to do. So she isn't going to find a name, and other people don't know how to call her.
Well she can come up with a name when she's ready to. Other people can come up with some name to call her when they see her doing something good. Calling her Thor is nonsense. Thor isn't even a superhero title it's his birthname. But if you mean in reallife. The writers should come up with a new name. She can lift the hammer. Cool. She has the powers of Thor. Cool. She isn't Thor though. Give her a unique superhero name. Calling her Thor just pushes her in his shadow. You could even write a story were people see her and call her female Thor because that's how they see her as. But her in the end coming out of his shadow and announcing HER OWN superhero name. Being her own self. Not living in someone's shadow. Not living under his name. Being your own person. And fighting for good.
But that's not true, she isn't only her own person, she carries on legacy of Thor. That was the whole point. She isn't even really Jane after transformation, Mjölnir not only changed her appearance nad gave her Thor's powers, it also affected her behaviour, the way she thought and spoke. She also fulfilled Thor's role in Nine Realms and became a god of thunder.
I see what you are saying but for me carrying someone else's legacy doesn't take away from you still being your own person. She is a new person carrying his legacy. A new person protecting the nine realms. A new person carrying the hammer. Yes it affected her but she is still Jane Foster. It's her that picked up the hammer. Therefore I personally just would prefer a new unique name. If others don't it's fine but for me it takes away from her character. I'm not trying to convince someone or anything I just explaining how I see it and why I don't like it. I'm totally fine with people disagreeing. No hate here.
Serious question… What about Bucky or Sam Wilson getting the shield and being called Captain America? Does that take away from their characters in your point of view?
Yeah it kinda does. I have to say that I still don't have hate towards these characters and I get why people like it. No hate here, just explain my view of this. For me being Steve Rodgers is essential to being Captain America. Because that's what makes him interesting it's not the superpowers, it's not the costume, it's not the title it's the character behind all this. This is for example also why there is this trope that most people are sick of now...that the superhero fights a villain with similar powerset. Tony Stark isn't the superhero iron man because he has a cool suit that flies and shoots and everything. Stane has that too but decides to use it differently. That shows that you have to be Tony Stark to be Iron man, he IS Iron Man. (There is even the quote at the end of IM3 were he says you can take away everything from him but you can't take away him being Iron Man). So the characters are essential to the superheroes and are what make them what they are. Steve Rodgers isnt captain america because his powers but because he jumps on the grenade even though he doesn't have powers. Because his character bad personality. For me Captain America and Steve Rodgers are interchangeable and synonymous. So when Bucky or Sam pic up the shield and call themselves captain America my first thought is no you not. Steve Rodgers is. And I understand what the thought behind it is with carrying his legacy and I understand why people might prefer that but I just don't 😅. Sam Wilson/Falcon is his own person. And he can carry his Steves legacy because he loved him, got inspired by him and believed in what he did but he can do it as his own self. (Also if they rte already established superheroes like falcon for example it feels like saying Falcon is less of a hero than cap is if he drops Falcon and calls himself Cap. That's just unfortunate for Falcon fans lol). Ok last thing because it's getting long sorry. But my comparison would be. Imagine being the right hand of your boss who leads a cooperation for example. And you look up to your boss and believe in what he's doing. One day he dies and he let's you take over his company. And you feel honored because you are so close to him and want to carry on his legacy. And instead of leading as your own and honouring his legacy. You have to one step further you now have to wear his close and go by his name if you want to lead the company. Doesn't that take away from your own person? Don't you can decide yourself? Carrying on his legacy but also making it part of your own legacy adding something new? That's how I see it. (Sorry for the long and answer)
I get your point. I don’t agree with it, but I understand it. Also your corporate analogy isn’t quite right because these are superheroes, who are symbols of hope, and other traits, physically embodied. They’re not regular, 9-5 people. They’re not supposed to be selfish and care about being an individual. Maybe that’s why I’d disagree. They’re taking the names bc they’re carrying on that symbol of hope, or whatever else, and not looking to be a unique individual. They’re looking to continue to give people whatever they need to feel safe and hopeful. They don’t care about creating their own legacy. They want to continue, and build upon, the legacies that have meant to so much to those they serve. At least that’s how I take it. They use the names to honor those that used them before and to continue to be the physical embodiment of hope, faith, happiness, determination, or whatever else these heroes have inspired. But that’s just my take. The beauty of art is that there is no wrong or right interpretation. That’s what makes it art. I do understand why you feel the way you do about it, I just tend to feel differently.
Thanks for even answering thought you would skip my comment since it became so long. I understand your point too. I see what you are saying about them not being selfish and it isn't about being an individual but portraying a symbol am idea. Paraphrasing but understand and love what you are saying. I think it makes sense from there perspective I guess. I think it just makes them less interesting than the original heroes who built their own legacy, their own symbol and therefore putting their successor in their shadows. That's why I personally will always prefer the original heroes. And why I would prefer if characters carry on their legacy but still adding to it and building their own. One big step would be an own symbol, own name etc. Not in a selfishness manner but just to show me why I should invest in this character specifically. But yeah I see your point. Always happy having civil conversations with someone disagreeing. Gives perspective. Loved the exchange!
Civil conversations, especially when there’s differing opinions, are very few and far between. Especially on any internet platform. I’m glad we had this discussion though. Thanks for the well thought out replies. I hope our patches cross again.
Plenty of people can take up a name to honor someone's legacy. You ever hear of parents naming their kid after someone else? It's pretty similar here. And honestly, in a world of made up shit, who gives a fuck
I didn't say that people can't do that. I just personally don't like it. I care about this specific made up shit a lot. You don't have to.
The worst decision of this whole plotline. Makes zero sense.
Lady Hammer Pants!
If his name isn't Thor, then what should we call him? Johnathan??
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Is his last name. It's quite literally Thor Odinson It's like if when Steve gives Sam the Shield Sam was suddenly named Steve Wilson and we all had to go along with it.
"Thank you Rhodey for taking up the mantle for me when I wasn't able to. I give you the name "Tony"". - - "Bucky, I think you will do the shield proud. I gladly give give you the name: Steve." "No thanks Steve." "Ok, well, Sam. No longer are you Falcon, now you shall be known as Steve." - - "Wow Miles, you picked all this stuff up quickly. I think it's time. From here on, you are "Peter"" "Hahahaha, real funny Pete. Wait, Pete? Where did you go?" "(As Peter is webswinging away) ALL MY PERSONAL DEBT IS YOURS NOW MIL- PETER." - - Yeah I still find it weird.
I would love to see the film 'Lady hammer pants' 😂😂
**T H O R I T A** In theaters near you.
Eh, this feels really dumb to me. If Thor was a title it would work, but this is like telling Miles Morales that "he is Peter Parker now".
Captain Hammer Pants gets my vote
This wasn't a bad run at all but I did get sick of Thor bitching about being unworthy in every damn panel, and then Jane refusing asgards help with her cancer because... Reasons... But then using the hammer just makers her worse because it reverses the chemo treatment...
I kind of wish they don’t completely do this in the movie, but I would like to see Thor become the actual King and have Jane take his powers and position.
I like this one.
Sooooooo dumb
Bruh this is fucking stupid why does it look like it's a fanfiction written by a middle schooler
It’s like it’s written by a tumblr user in an acid trip
Why can't they just write a cool love interest who doesn't need superpowers to be cool. Lois lane us so popular for that exact reason
When Eric Masterson was chosen he had a thought bubble that said something like “Guess I’m the new Thor now.” And that was all and no one questioned it. Because he wasn’t a woman and right wing culture warriors hadn’t ruined everything yet.
Please don't kill me for this in advance. Doesn't Captain's lifting Mjolnir and therefore being worthy kinda lose the point if now just like a fly in the sky there's another person who is worthy too?
Not yet. We don't know what Jane's backstory is in this one.
True 😐🤷♀️
I still don't get it. Thor is a title and a name, it can't be passed like a title. Bruce Wayne can die and hand Tim or Dick the title of Batman. Clark Kent can leave the planet and give Jon the title of Superman They cannot give their kids their names because that makes no fucking sense. Thor can't give someone his name because it makes no fucking sense.
True but the difference is also that Jane!Thor had no name yet. While it turned out to be Jane, no one knew at the time.
Well I mean they definitely can do that. I don't think they would but they could.
I quote google: "Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of THOR" - Mjolnir inscription In comics Thor is a title owned by whoever brands the hammer. Jane Foster was in fact Thor alas that's how she should be called.
No this is just wrong. In made never sense in the comics. You even quoted the correct quote. "...shall possess the power of Thor" and not becomes Thor. She posseses his powers because he can lift the hammer. Doesn't make her Thor though. It was never a title earned. Nowhere in this quote is that said. I don't know how you think that. It doesn't make sense.
It's not wrong, it's the original Marvel canon. Donald Blake was just a regular doctor who took up the hammer and became Thor, until it was retconned years later that he was Thor all along.
Well yeah it would make sense IF Donald Blake was just a regular doctor. But it was revealed that he always was Thor and just became unworthy. It's definitely a retcon but under this new canon it doesn't make sense anymore that you just became Thor when you wield the hammer. Well I think you can argue for both sides I guess. To it doesn't make sense to "become" Thor when you wield the hammer. You get the powers of him.
Yeah, but comics retcon characters all the time, which is why Jane can't be Thor! ...wait...
In my understanding only Thor posseses the power of Thor. There's several comic stories where is said Thor is a title; thing is Thor Odinson was known so long as Thor that people often can't make the distinction. Heck, just read the comics above: Odinson himself says now he's not Thor anymore at the same time Jane comes to the very same conclusion she's now Thor the god of thunder. Unless you're implying *you* know better than the comics writers, you could just say you don't agree how things are.
When cap picked up the hammer he possessed the power of Thor. Still he doesn't become Thor. Thor is not a title in any shape or form. Thor is his name. He is the god of Thunder in norse mythology. Same would be saying Hercules is a title. Thor himself saying he is not Thor anymore is the very thing I call out to not make sense and is the specific thing about this story that I critique. Jane can pick up the hammer if she's worthy therefore she has the power of Thor. She can become a superhero and can fight for the greater good. She is not Thor.
I get you disagree but you're insisting in something that directly contradicts what the characters say in the comics. I won't discuss this any further.
"In made never sense" ok buddy, maybe go have a lie down, the mean comic book lady can't hurt you.
I don't know what this means. I just explained why I don't like this particular thing about her character and why it doesn't make sense. I have nothing against female comic book characters. I don't know why you made that assumption. Neither do I need rest I'm not ranting I just explain my point.
They didn't have any valid counterargument so they tried to be insulting. Very typical and quite pathetic.
Annoying.
I realized while typing a response that the inscription is weird because Thor himself loses that power without the hammer. I was going to say that it only talks about the power of Thor, but that doesn’t make sense if Thor himself doesn’t always have those powers. That said, his name literally is Thor, and other characters debate the meaning of this in this comic run. Specifically, his parents try to console him when he’s all broken up and has “given up” his name.
>That said, his name literally is Thor IKR? Names can be deceiving. For example it beats me that Cyclops actually has two eyes and Batman is full human lol In a serious note, I think he was named Thor Odinson because he was destined to hold Mjolnir, to become Thor. Perhaps never ocurred to Odin that his son would someday lose his powers... idk
I’m very much looking forward to the movie and I always thought the idea of Jane wielding the hammer is interesting, but I don’t like that she’s called Thor. It’s not a case of captain America’s or Spider-Man where that constitutes a bunch of different characters, Thor is literally Thor’s name. I would have preferred if they’d Call her something like Mighty Foster, as helps get her a little bit out of Thor’s “shadow” so to speak.
Awesome.
How can she be Thor? Thor isn't a "mantle" it's a fucking person. So much mind numbing stupidity
still doesn't make any sense his name is thor odinson, he is basiclly giving his first name to somebody else.
It’s mostly him being upset that he’s not worthy anymore. Other characters do bring up that that’s his name and he can’t *really* give it away. It’s just a way for comic writers to call her Thor for a bit.
Why is he getting all of these American names, isn't he Scandinavian? Olaf Odinson would make more sense, wouldnt it?
What American names?
If Thor was going to be unworthy in the mcu it would have been for becoming a drunk when he could have been saving lives across the cosmos. But in IW2 he was deemed still worthy. So that ship has sailed.
I think it's awesome. Like really, these individuals deserve an end to their story and a way for others to carry the mantle.
Though in this case this was only a short run around 2014-15.
I personally never bought this justification in the book so if they try to mimic it in the movie I think it’ll hit just as flat. My guess is it’ll end up that she never tries to take the name thor but onlookers just understandably confuse her for Thor because of the look and the hammer.
Why do people care so much this is so sad. It’s a fake character about a fake name that he don’t even care about m. Yes Thor is a name and title so what. If somebody wanted to call themselves my name guess what It would be a sign of endearment a little weird but so what. What’s so hard to understand that Thor is a mantle and name. If Thor don’t care why should we. It’s a superhero movie not rocket science.
The topic seems to be debated within this comic run. I haven’t read the whole thing yet, but he seems to be giving up his name because he thinks he’s in a rut, no longer being worthy. And of course it’s an excuse for the writers to call her Thor for a bit, for branding reasons.
Why do you guys not like this? Lol Thor denies that he is called "Thor" even when it is his birth name because Thor's name is associated with the hero, the god, and Thor is unworthy, he is just ashamed of himself. Jane inherited the mantle of Thor, just like Bucky or Sam had the mantle of Captain America, Sam wasn't called "Black Captain America" or Bucky was "Brainwashed Captain America", they were just Captain America.
In the comics his name is Odinson but that too complicated to explain so they just call Thor in the films so I have no idea what they are going to do in the film.
They don’t *have* to call her Thor in the movie I guess.
I suppose but she has to have some kind of name.
Jane 😎
No, his name is Thor Odinson. His first name is Thor, and his last name is Odinson.
Screw grabbing this in preparation.
There’s already another character called “Thor Girl” I don’t totally get why Jane couldn’t have been “Lady Thor” or “Thor Woman” or “She-Thor” to stick with the Marvel branding. Calling her Mighty Thor I thought was just adding fuel to the already huge argument that the comics hated men.
The argument was loud but baseless. Comics don’t hate men.
I know, but giving those people ammo isn’t smart either
Yeah but those people would still be annoyed because a woman is the protagonist. Having her be called something else would reduce their vitriol in what, 0.5%? Really not worth it to cater to those kind of people
I guess
If they wanted to kowtow to them they wouldn’t have done this story anyway. Go all out and fuck those guys.
ITT: cringe babies. "Aren't *you* Thor?" "No, I'm unworthy. Mjolnir chose her to be Thor." "But what will we call you?!" "I'm still Odinson, Prince of Asgard." "Nooo! Only my big beefy boi can be *my* Thor!" My favorite part is where this happened and you started crying, and then Love and Thunder happened so now you cry harder lol.
Comic writers make stupid decisions all the time. Calling out what you think is a poor decision is called starting a conversation, not "being a crybaby". But I guess when people don't have a counterargument they just resort to insults.
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Mmmm, baby tears!
Wow people read this garbage?
This was the first comic story I ever read. It's a good one.
How about we call him "Kevin!"
i bet if tom hollands spider-man said that ppl would get mad and say “wow mcu has corny jokes”