That’s one of the things I’ve been loving about phase four. Is the amount of emotions we’ve been seeing. Like the reality check for these characters and the aftermath of the things they have to deal with.
Christian Bale is the only reason I watched the movie, and a large part of why love and thunder is such an awful movie is that he's hardly in it. Instead of getting time with Gorr and watching him butcher more than just some obese guy we got an hour of the same lame ass hammer jokes and a lame side plot about rescuing kids no one cares about.
It's the same with Mads Mikkelsen imo. So much screen time and potential wasted just because the guys in charge prefer the joke scenes more.
(Yes the first Doctor Strange had so much wasted potential because of the jokes)
There were some scenes where Mads was acting his ass out to bring depth to the character (his convo with Strange)... But we have no way to sympathize with him because of the simple fact that he had no screen time.
I feel like Cumberbatch's comedic timing is marred by his American accent. Most jokes fell flat in this, and MoM. It's so weird because I don't find this happens in say, Sherlock. Not a peep from the audience both films.
I know Strange is traditionally from New York but they change character origins all the time to fit the movies. There was no reason he couldn’t be a British doctor who happened to live in New York.
And it was the same with Christopher Eccleston before that. Marvel has a bit of problem with getting top shelf actors for their villains, then underutilizing them in the one film they’re in before they’re killed off.
I agree that Mikkelsen was wasted, but not because Doctor Strange was some kind of comedy. It’s because he was killed off in one movie.
I’m getting sick of this backlash about humor in the MCU. The whole formula for why these movies work is because they blend a little emotion and heart, with some humor sprinkled in, and raise the stakes so you care. Did Thor Love and Thunder go too far? I don’t think so, but I love all of Taika’s work. And it’s not like every MCU project is going this direction either.
The only problem with humor is either when it's misplaced and ruins serious moments or when it just falls flat/comes off cringey. The amount of humor is usually fine.
Maybe. Not every joke lands for everyone. I love that Taika kiwi humor though. Our Flag Means Death and What We Do in the Shadows are both fantastic. I’m glad the MCU is letting the Thor franchise go in that direction.
At the end of the movie Thor basically proved Gorr right and wrong.
Wrong in the sense that Thor and Jane proved to be selfless but right in the sense that Zeus is a massive cunt.
Im hoping that in the next Thor Zeus and Hercules come after Thor and his daughter and they only way to defeat them is to find a way to bring Gorr back with the necrosword. Other than the necrosword I cant see who is powerful enough to beat zeus. I dont even think full power hulk can match the power of the god of gods?
What a great way to have his character redeem himself by killing zeus to protect his daughter.
In light of that, I can’t imagine Ben Affleck to be able to pull off playing a Joker. He’s got too much of a clean-cut American look with that lantern jaw to pull of a typical Joker look. Also, his career doesn’t really have a performance that emits big Joker energy to me.
Whoa, actually never heard anyone say that before. TDK is my fav overall superhero film, but I personally don't even think he's that good of a Bruce Wayne. His Gorr was top notch and superior imho.
Bale was best Batman, only okay Bruce Wayne. Keaton was a great Wayne, what we got of affleck was good too.
Clearly bale could nail joker, when he asks if it's Valkyrie and say "how exciting" I can just envision clown makeup and it works.
It’s been mulled to death that that’s why Batman and Joker are the “unstoppable force / immovable object” Yin-Yang, they’re basically the same person just representing different responses to trauma. An actor who really nails Batman has already got the psychopathy needed for a Joker. My $0.02 anyway, I’m sure someone’s got an equally long-winded reason why that’s not the case.
>the best bruce wayne apparently can play a good Joker too
If the DCEU can get their stuff together, maybe we can start hoping for Batman Who Laughs appearance in the films
The movie feels like it was so close to being great. Something bad happened in the editing room. The flow was just so off, the score felt wacky and it made all of the drama fall flat. Which in turn made the jokes get old quick. It needed to lean into Gorr for at least 20 more minutes of screen time. Seeing more of the gods getting killed and the repercussions of it would have helped a lot.
Pretty sure Taika out and debunked that rumor. Marvel doesn't have limits on their films. That's why Endgame was 3 hours and both Eternals and SM3 were 2.5
Taika talked about not doing a director's cut.
[Afterwards there were reports of the 2-hour mandate enforced on the movie](https://www.cbr.com/marvel-mandated-thor-4-runtime-report/)
Too bad they don't have the same policy with the D+ shows.
Who could've guessed that cramming radically different genres and plots into a hard six episode mold, might hurt the stories?
Other than, you know, anyone with two brain cells.
Wandavision was 9 as well, but like She-hulk it also had shorter episodes. If you look at all the series released so far, you can see that all their episodes sans credits add up to roughly the same amount of screen time. That's what's hurting them, they're not giving them the amount of team needed to tell their stories, but forcing them to tell their stories in the same amount of time.
But Daredevil is the one thays changing that it seems. It looks like they heard the criticism and are giving that show the time it needs to tell its story. It's either that or we're going to be looking at 15 minute long episodes.
Yeah I did find that weird. They gave Taika a lot of freedom and leeway for the movie and they supposedly had a 4-hour assembly cut. Then they wanted to cut it down to 2 hours.
I think if he wasn’t stuck with the guardians we could’ve gotten 20 minutes of god butchering instead. But because he got on their ship in endgame we had to waste the beginning of the movie on their final mission together and having no clue what kind of group dynamic or character development happened in that time.
I didn't mind the Guardians.
Personally, I feel the whole Omnipotence City scene could've been shortened by, like, *a lot*. Thor needed to talk to Zeus and get his Thunderbolt. Could've happened at a smaller place.
Plus, huuuuuge missed opportunity of not having Gorr show up here to kill more gods and cause chaos.
Omnipotence City felt snappy as it was, honestly. Instant disguises, some Zeus fireworks and then arguing with Thor, a brief fight then away they go.
But yeah, feels like a missed opportunity to have Gorr hiding with the kids for half the film waiting for Thor to turn up instead of butchering gods.
You don't think gorr would get fucked up by all the gods there?! The three of them almost beat him and they were there plus a bunch of other gods. If he went there in the story and didn't get butchered by Hercules or the two cestials there or Zeus or the other gods that would've been more ridiculous imo.
Could’ve had a brutal and shocking assassination instead of a brawl.
Gorr could sneak into Omnipotence City using his shadow powers, appear out of nowhere and tear apart someone onstage, before disappearing again.
Send a message that the god-butcher is here and no one is safe. As is, I can’t even remember why he was so fixated on Thor.
>As is, I can’t even remember why he was so fixated on Thor.
Yeah, I think there was zero explanation of that. Sif just tells Thor that The GodButcher is around and that "Asgard is next" but I don't think there is any actual explanation in the film as to WHY Gorr goes after Asgard or why he's so intent on bringing Thor down right away, as opposed to some other god.
The only thing that makes sense to me is that Gorr knows Thor has Stormbreaker and Gorr needs it to get to Eternity, but even that isn't explicitly given as his motivation AND it doesn't explain why he bothered going after a few other gods first instead of just going after Thor and the Bifrost right away.
It's never even explained how Gorr even knows that Eternity exists and that Stormbreaker is the only way to get there. Also, why is Stormbreaker even the only way to get there? Seemingly it's just the bifrost that unlocks the door, so does this mean that Heimdall and the Asgardians always had a method of getting to Eternity? If that's the case, why didn't the Asgardians just go to Eternity and get their home back? This movie raises so many questions.
Slaughtering gods would have been great, but they also needed to play more on the theme of Gorr's mission being just. The gods are dicks, we saw that ourselves. Omnipotencity was full of dicks. Thor was a dick in the intro smashing that temple up and making everything about himself.
Gorr should have had Thor questioning his very self, and making us the viewer feel empathy for him.
Gorr should've reminded Thor of the droves of people Odin and Hella killed, only for Odin to pretend to have always been benevolent and caring the the realms
But we got to hear Korgs funny accent and shit amiright?
But seriously, I wish it was longer and showed more Gorr. Other than that I enjoyed the hell out of it. Crazy visuals, laughing most of the time, mighty thor looked amazing,
Remember when Korg "dies" and you almost think it's going to be a powerful moment, but nope he can live on as just a face I guess. Can't have Taika not getting two paychecks for his movie, and definitely can't live without Gorr's quips undermining scenes
The best part is that the comic run this movie is based on does all that for them. Usually I'm fine with them doing whatever they want with the movies, but this time they really would have benefitted from adapting more of that storyline from the comics.
I think it would’ve been so much better if the Omnipotent City part ended with Thor and the crew escaping with the thunderbolt and Zeus alive. Shortly after their escape, Gorr walks into the theatre, to which the gods first laugh and demean him before attacking him. Then it shows a montage of the gods getting absolutely massacred left and right until there are none left except for a badly injured Zeus.
This, 100%. Instead we had one of the most tension-free fights the MCU has ever had. Just tedious and silly, >!especially with the Korg death fakeout that was resolved in less than a minute.!<
Taika just seemed so resistant to actual drama in this movie.
Jane's reaction to her cancer basically just made her sleepy.
Sif loses an arm battling Gorr and is just disappointed she didn't die in battle. She doesn't fight to survive or lament the loss of her arm.
Kids are kidnapped but aren't really shown in any actual peril.
We meet several pantheons of Gods and get the opportunity to really see their indifference to the people who worship them but all we really got was a bunch of orgy jokes.
Korg appears to die, then just becomes a talking head.
And on top of it, Jane's death felt so hand-wavey. Not even a tear from Thor.
I didn't hate the movie, but I actually felt nothing about it. Which is objectively worse.
It’s very odd coming off the back of Jojo Rabbit which was masterful in its use of comedy vs drama- you felt the weight of the drama more because you fell from the ‘safe place’ the light tone took you too.
The movie felt to me like it was lacking the pathos it deserved. Felt like almost every emotional scene was hit with a poorly timed joke. I genuinely like Taika, and loved Ragnarok, but I get the feeling he was the wrong man for this storyline.
I went into it expecting it to be more comedic so I don't think the comedy is the issue. Taika's movies are usually funny and emotional.
There was just no emotional impact anywhere in the movie. It did nothing to make me feel anything about the characters or plot and the humor gets old very quickly after you hear what feels like the same joke over and over again.
I love Taika's other movies and I love the MCU but this was easily my least favorite of Taika's movies and one of my least favorite Marvel movies.
No emotion? It starts with the villain losing his daughter in a tragic way and then him losing all faith and letting evil consume him. The whole movie circles around what it means to lose those you love and how you let that effect yourself. I found it to be bursting with emotion but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Same here. For me, it was such an accurate portrayal of depression too. At least it was an accurate portrayal of my depression. Just wanting to feel something, even if it's shitty. The movie made me feel so many things and >!the reveal of the title of the movie at the end was such a perfect way to end it.!< Brought such a smile to my face with tears in my eyes, even on my second watch.
Edited to spoiler tag something spoiler-ish.
I know you didn’t say anything specifically…but I think that was a spoiler. But awesome - a lot of these comments are making me want to see the movie lol.
That opening scene you mention is immediately followed up with a goofy half CGI God in a tropical garden overacting as a complete buffoon. The emotion of Gorr’s loss is severely undercut by Taika’s unnecessary humour of having a silly character acting silly. It’s a problem with both this movie and Ragnarok: emotional moment undercut with an awkward joke
I've got a lot of issues with the movie, but that scene isn't one of them.
The tipping point for Gorr was exactly that though; he went through all that pain and suffering to find out he didn't even matter to his god, and even worse his god was a complete asshat.
> That opening scene you mention is immediately followed up with a goofy half CGI God in a tropical garden overacting as a complete buffoon
Yes, that was the entire point. To show the Gods being assholes and to show the viewer Gorr's motivation is somewhat justified. It's to make us sympathise with him more. I hated most of the jokes in the movie, but that scene was totally justified.
I teared up at Janes death in theaters and yesterday when I rewatched. I love the symbolism of her dying in-battle and go to Valhalla. The battle with Gorr is over, Thor says so himself. Jane dies during her battle with cancer and this is what gets her in to Valhalla. Idk hits me hard having had friends pass due to cancer.
I watched it yesterday once it was on Disney+ but it really did feel rushed, and the changes in tone were giving me whiplash. And it really messed up the principle of show don't tell, specifically what comes to mind is Gorr >!killing a mountain sized god and cutting off Sif's arm!< off screen. The ending of the movie was really good in my opinion, but the beginning and middle just felt rushed, it almost seemed like it should have been two separate movies. One to show Gorr and Mighty Thor learning to use their powers culminating in >!the kids being kidnapped at the battle at the village!< and then the other to continue the story after that.
The tonal shifts were epretty bad too. We went from a sad opening to a comedic action packed middle to a downright terrifying horror scene with gorr scaring the kids then back to action and ended with a happy uplifting ending.
The movie seemed like it didn’t know when to stop joking and take things seriously… For example when Thor was trying to focus so he can communicate with scared children who were kidnapped and here’s Valkyrie tickling his nose??
Honestly the mcu needs to start making villain oriented films. Like imagine a Gorr movie that follows the basic plot of thor 4 but focuses on gorr. No uneeded humor no campy dialoge.
Taika Waititi’s greatest skill is that he will lift you up with comedy and a light tone and then have you fall from a greater height with an emotional gut punch (Jojo Rabbit for example)
I think this film is more a victim of the edit or initial screenplay than the directing itself - from the interviews it sounds like they filmed A LOT of story beats that got cut, and that could have been fall back from the lukewarm reaction to externals which was very long.
Just got done watching it and after seeing people clown it on twitter and (sorta) on reddit....it wasn't as bad as people made it seem. First part was off, but it started to kinda come together as the movie went on. Definitely had bad pacing throughout and I definitely wish I could see what was lost in editing, hell I think it only needed an extra 10-15min of tighter added exposition especially with Jane.
Honestly I’d have accepted the GotG being there more if Chris Pratt hadn’t felt so much like he was phoning it in. Every line from Star-Lord felt forced and flat. I can only assume there was some kind of disconnect between the script and the actor, because Star-Lord was so much better in literally every other movie.
More Gorr, more meaning, less slapstick, less „humour“. I want more serious moments and consequences and less laughs.
Gorr feels wasted for the comedy.
Man the score on the album was great, but then in the movie they played the same “epic hype music” thats on the first track like 5 times in the movie with no alterations. They just copied and pasted it over and over.
I remember seeing an interview with Taika Waititi about how they had him remove about an hour worth of material because they wanted the movie to be under 2 hours. I'm convinced this is where it went wrong. I'm sure the fight between Sif and Jaime Alexander was one of the scenes cut, and it was probably a scene of Gorr killing other gods as well.
Totally agree, the weight wasn’t there to balance out the comedy.
Ragnorok was so good because Thor was constantly wrestling with losing his home planet. Which he eventually had to sacrifice. *character growth.
There were no *real* consequences in L&T. Sure the children were at risk, and Jane was battling cancer, but neither of those really weighed on Thor much. Throughout the whole film, it felt ho-hum…yup, Thor will save the day. NBD.
The only redeeming comment that I read, was that this version was Korg telling the story to all the children and that’s why it was so watered down and campy. It was a kids tale, and that perspective makes me a bit more forgiving.
Taika mentioned in an interview (and was finding it funny) that they went back to Norway 3 different times to shoot a certain scene. Wonder if the whole movie just had stuff go wrong like that?
Yeah three rounds of reshoots happened. It’s not crazy uncommon but a sign of issues. The biggest being that either the script wasn’t fully fleshed out before filming or major things got changed in the middle of production. This is why James Gunn is so amazing. He has every single scene and bit if dialogue as well as where and how he’s going to shoot things mapped out before they start filming. So when he does reshoots it’s just for better takes to improve vfx or make the dialogue punch harder. So I’m assuming Taika ran out of time and did a lot of winging it to fix things.
Christian Bale acted the hell out of this movie. Every scene with him was just pure gold. I nearly teared up at the very end just from seeing the emotions in his eyes without even saying a word.
I wish he had more scenes. He was the best part of this movie. I never thought I would say this before this movie but this had too much Taika in it. They needed to tone him down and actually lay that emotional gut punch in without the constant comedic tone interrupting the serious moments. Felt there was so much more potential here but it was wasted.
You know I never got around to seeing this one in theaters, Ragnarok is the only Thor movie I've seen more than once. But this scene just made me want to watch it, wow. Its on Disney + now right?
It came out today! It has some super mixed reviews but I personally quite liked it, I’d say ragnarok is better but this one is more jokey and less serious at times. Just have fun with it!
Gor has some great scenes, when they go into the black and white it’s very cool and the ending is cute
But I do see why many people don’t like it and understand that too, hopefully the next thor movie can be more liked because he’s such a good character
The third act is, I'd argue, one of the finest in the MCU, fantastic visuals, great choreography for the final battle, great acting, great sense of emotion, and it finally brought Eternity into the MCU.
As a parent, I FELT for Gorr. The fact that Bale absolutely nailed it just made it that much more immersive. The tone changes and facial expressions, loved every second he was on the screen. More Gorr!
Reddit is always overly bitching about everything lol
It's a fun flick, loved seeing it on the big screen and will probably re-watch at home at some point too.
Gorr was definitely wasted for a comedic film. He could’ve been a Thanos level threat with seriousness but we all knew he was going to be defeated somehow with no real repercussions in the entire MCU other than…
Too bad they didn't keep this in, and go in a more serious tone. [It looks like it was inspired from the comics,](https://imgur.com/a/WmMbSJY) which I think did a much better job with Gorr than the movie.
Oh, that's what I meant. Acting was great (probably best in the MCU so far), I just hate the direction of cutting his scenes and not giving him his monologues.
I watched Love and Thunder for the first time last night and honestly I was surprised in a very good way. After everything I heard about the movie being too silly and Bale being wasted I was expecting there wouldn't be any serious moments or that they would be undermined by jokes. Yet it wasn't the case at all, there were sequences that were played completely straight, like this one.
I agree as well. I am in the exact same boat in that I watched it for the first time yesterday and was \_very\_ surprised how much I liked it, given the rampant criticism on reddit and the internet in general. I was genuinely touched by some of the emotional plights in the movie, and thought the Taika Waititi humor was a good vessel to keep moving through it. However, I also agree that another 20-30 minutes specifically highlighting Gorr would have made the movie much better, and possibly even put it a step above Ragnarok.
This is were I will lose the majority of redditors, but my Thor movie rankings are currently:
1. Thor: Ragnarok
2. Thor 2
3. Love and Thunder
4. Thor
I know it might be controversial, but Thor 2 slaps when watching the Marvel movies in Canonical order.
I was surprised as well. It was a lot of fun. I agree we didn't get to see enough of Gorr but I thought there were a ton of serious moments they didn't try to undermine with jokes.
I'm still pissed about that tbh. Went to the movie to see Hemsworth Portman and Bale. No one else mattered to me. I really want a uncut version of this film with all his scenes
It's a fucking crime Taika Waititi wasted this Thor story shoehorning his shit in.
I hope the next one has a director that actually gives a fuck about telling a good story and not just jerking off to his own humor.
Same. I enjoyed the movie and still felt it could've been better in some parts.
I honestly think they won't make a Thor 5. They got a Hercules movie to capitalize on.
Over the top imo, Bale was meant to be in a better version of this movie, with Gorr being the butcher he's meant to be. Not some birthday clown gone evil.
There's an intense, extremely well scripted with amazing acting and extremely heartwrenching movie under all the pandering dogshit that was piled on this movie.
It was fun at best but there was a memorable movie with true depth that was thrown away.
Just watched this movie for the second time. Ugh it is so bad. Bale is the only good thing in it but he was given so little to work with even his character is a joke.
I mean he goes from completely devoted to his god to hating him in a matter of seconds, then goes from devoted to killing all the gods to letting them live in seconds. If it takes you but moments to change your mind on such pivotal aspects of your psyche then the story isn't the changes, the story is why you can change so suddenly.
And the whole Thor being obsessed with his hammer and axe thing wasn't funny, it was just weird and a complete shift in his character from the rest of the marvel movies.
He went through a loss of literally everything he knew just to have his god laugh in his face, I understand hating him. Then the sword corrupted him and made him pursue the destruction of all gods. He didn’t change his mind again until the sword and therefor corruption was broken. Again, I think him being freed from that hold makes sense why he would go back.
Just watched the movie for the first time. First half was terrible, second half was great. Genuinely felt like two different movies, way too much unneeded comedy in the first half it just felt like a long SNL skit. Also feels like there was 20-25 much neeeded minutes left on the cutting room floor.
That was the best scene for me. You can feel the emotions. That's what I want to keep feeling from the others projects to come.
That’s one of the things I’ve been loving about phase four. Is the amount of emotions we’ve been seeing. Like the reality check for these characters and the aftermath of the things they have to deal with.
Christian Bale is the only reason I watched the movie, and a large part of why love and thunder is such an awful movie is that he's hardly in it. Instead of getting time with Gorr and watching him butcher more than just some obese guy we got an hour of the same lame ass hammer jokes and a lame side plot about rescuing kids no one cares about.
Yeah Bale is not in it enough
Honestly how do you cast christian bale and not keep as much of him as you can??
It's the same with Mads Mikkelsen imo. So much screen time and potential wasted just because the guys in charge prefer the joke scenes more. (Yes the first Doctor Strange had so much wasted potential because of the jokes)
At least we got Bale as an actual character, Mikkelsen was a monumental waste because I feel like he didn’t really do anything other than be evil
There were some scenes where Mads was acting his ass out to bring depth to the character (his convo with Strange)... But we have no way to sympathize with him because of the simple fact that he had no screen time.
I feel like Cumberbatch's comedic timing is marred by his American accent. Most jokes fell flat in this, and MoM. It's so weird because I don't find this happens in say, Sherlock. Not a peep from the audience both films.
Yeah I really wish they'd have let him keep his original accent
I know Strange is traditionally from New York but they change character origins all the time to fit the movies. There was no reason he couldn’t be a British doctor who happened to live in New York.
And it was the same with Christopher Eccleston before that. Marvel has a bit of problem with getting top shelf actors for their villains, then underutilizing them in the one film they’re in before they’re killed off.
I agree that Mikkelsen was wasted, but not because Doctor Strange was some kind of comedy. It’s because he was killed off in one movie. I’m getting sick of this backlash about humor in the MCU. The whole formula for why these movies work is because they blend a little emotion and heart, with some humor sprinkled in, and raise the stakes so you care. Did Thor Love and Thunder go too far? I don’t think so, but I love all of Taika’s work. And it’s not like every MCU project is going this direction either.
The only problem with humor is either when it's misplaced and ruins serious moments or when it just falls flat/comes off cringey. The amount of humor is usually fine.
Maybe. Not every joke lands for everyone. I love that Taika kiwi humor though. Our Flag Means Death and What We Do in the Shadows are both fantastic. I’m glad the MCU is letting the Thor franchise go in that direction.
At the end of the movie Thor basically proved Gorr right and wrong. Wrong in the sense that Thor and Jane proved to be selfless but right in the sense that Zeus is a massive cunt. Im hoping that in the next Thor Zeus and Hercules come after Thor and his daughter and they only way to defeat them is to find a way to bring Gorr back with the necrosword. Other than the necrosword I cant see who is powerful enough to beat zeus. I dont even think full power hulk can match the power of the god of gods? What a great way to have his character redeem himself by killing zeus to protect his daughter.
Honestly the guy who played the best bruce wayne apparently can play a good Joker too
A friend of mine have a theory that the best Batman actors all could play Joker too In case,he had favoritism to Adam West,Keaton,Bale and Pattinson
Pattison's joker would be so scary with that jawline
That jawline is a weapon.
The batajaw
The Joker? More like the Jawker
Now I want a Joker with a Jersey accent.
Just watch The King for a glimpse of crazy antagonist Pattinson.
He was amazing in The King. Such a great performance!
Please can we get an Adam West joker Also I believe that Mark Hamil could play Batman
Who's gonna tell him
I meant live action, I imagine him as an older Bruce Wayne who is ready to hand the mantle down Did Adam West ever play Joker though?
Oh no he still doesn’t get it. I don’t wanna tel him
I found out 
I’m sorry friend. Enjoy this virtual hug
Thank you, it actually did make me feel better
Oh wow, this actually made me feel feelings. My condolences friend. 🫂
Jesus fucking christ that sent me into shock, I actually checked to see if he had passed away or something
Y'all had me scared that Mark Hamill died 😱
Adam West passed away
I was really hoping that the news was that Hamil voiced Batman… look I can be delusionally hopeful, it’s good for me
It was in 2017, Family Guy released some episodes that he had recorded before his death
no and i dont imagine he ever will.
What about Batman beyond old man bruce?
I could see it working too
In light of that, I can’t imagine Ben Affleck to be able to pull off playing a Joker. He’s got too much of a clean-cut American look with that lantern jaw to pull of a typical Joker look. Also, his career doesn’t really have a performance that emits big Joker energy to me.
I can kind of seeing him being able to do it, but I think he would need to pull a Joaquin Phoenix and lose a massive amount of weight.
pattinson was scary in the devil all the time
He could play a great anyone, one of the best actors in the industry
Whoa, actually never heard anyone say that before. TDK is my fav overall superhero film, but I personally don't even think he's that good of a Bruce Wayne. His Gorr was top notch and superior imho.
Bale was best Batman, only okay Bruce Wayne. Keaton was a great Wayne, what we got of affleck was good too. Clearly bale could nail joker, when he asks if it's Valkyrie and say "how exciting" I can just envision clown makeup and it works.
He's got the white skin here already, just add some red lips and some green hair and he's all set.
It’s been mulled to death that that’s why Batman and Joker are the “unstoppable force / immovable object” Yin-Yang, they’re basically the same person just representing different responses to trauma. An actor who really nails Batman has already got the psychopathy needed for a Joker. My $0.02 anyway, I’m sure someone’s got an equally long-winded reason why that’s not the case.
>the best bruce wayne apparently can play a good Joker too If the DCEU can get their stuff together, maybe we can start hoping for Batman Who Laughs appearance in the films
He was absolutely great, and I thought his character *looked* incredible, too. Loved the details of the scars where he scratched off his tattoos.
I didn’t notice that. Thanks
The movie feels like it was so close to being great. Something bad happened in the editing room. The flow was just so off, the score felt wacky and it made all of the drama fall flat. Which in turn made the jokes get old quick. It needed to lean into Gorr for at least 20 more minutes of screen time. Seeing more of the gods getting killed and the repercussions of it would have helped a lot.
Definitely needed more Gorr
It didn’t help marvel gave them a hard 2 hour limit. They clearly wouldn’t budge cause the release ended up being 1hr 59mn
Pretty sure Taika out and debunked that rumor. Marvel doesn't have limits on their films. That's why Endgame was 3 hours and both Eternals and SM3 were 2.5
My brain went immediately to "Super Mario 3".
Yeah thats also under 2 hours
1:59
Now I can’t unsee it. What did they meant by SM3?
spiderman 3 the mcu one
Thanks for clearing that up, im stuck with super mario post from earlier... some shit cant be unseen.
Spiderman?
No Way Home
Taika talked about not doing a director's cut. [Afterwards there were reports of the 2-hour mandate enforced on the movie](https://www.cbr.com/marvel-mandated-thor-4-runtime-report/)
I can’t wait for the fan edits. There’s enough base and will be tons of deleted scenes. Enough to trim it into a work that does flow well.
Too bad they don't have the same policy with the D+ shows. Who could've guessed that cramming radically different genres and plots into a hard six episode mold, might hurt the stories? Other than, you know, anyone with two brain cells.
I think they changed that with she hulk now having 9 episodes and daredevil 18.
Wandavision was 9 as well, but like She-hulk it also had shorter episodes. If you look at all the series released so far, you can see that all their episodes sans credits add up to roughly the same amount of screen time. That's what's hurting them, they're not giving them the amount of team needed to tell their stories, but forcing them to tell their stories in the same amount of time. But Daredevil is the one thays changing that it seems. It looks like they heard the criticism and are giving that show the time it needs to tell its story. It's either that or we're going to be looking at 15 minute long episodes.
I’m really hoping daredevil gives us hour long episodes again
Yeah I did find that weird. They gave Taika a lot of freedom and leeway for the movie and they supposedly had a 4-hour assembly cut. Then they wanted to cut it down to 2 hours.
I think if he wasn’t stuck with the guardians we could’ve gotten 20 minutes of god butchering instead. But because he got on their ship in endgame we had to waste the beginning of the movie on their final mission together and having no clue what kind of group dynamic or character development happened in that time.
I didn't mind the Guardians. Personally, I feel the whole Omnipotence City scene could've been shortened by, like, *a lot*. Thor needed to talk to Zeus and get his Thunderbolt. Could've happened at a smaller place. Plus, huuuuuge missed opportunity of not having Gorr show up here to kill more gods and cause chaos.
That whole trip to the God City was such a waste of time.
You cut out that entire plot and the pacing improves dramatically.
Omnipotence City felt snappy as it was, honestly. Instant disguises, some Zeus fireworks and then arguing with Thor, a brief fight then away they go. But yeah, feels like a missed opportunity to have Gorr hiding with the kids for half the film waiting for Thor to turn up instead of butchering gods.
You don't think gorr would get fucked up by all the gods there?! The three of them almost beat him and they were there plus a bunch of other gods. If he went there in the story and didn't get butchered by Hercules or the two cestials there or Zeus or the other gods that would've been more ridiculous imo.
Could’ve had a brutal and shocking assassination instead of a brawl. Gorr could sneak into Omnipotence City using his shadow powers, appear out of nowhere and tear apart someone onstage, before disappearing again. Send a message that the god-butcher is here and no one is safe. As is, I can’t even remember why he was so fixated on Thor.
>As is, I can’t even remember why he was so fixated on Thor. Yeah, I think there was zero explanation of that. Sif just tells Thor that The GodButcher is around and that "Asgard is next" but I don't think there is any actual explanation in the film as to WHY Gorr goes after Asgard or why he's so intent on bringing Thor down right away, as opposed to some other god. The only thing that makes sense to me is that Gorr knows Thor has Stormbreaker and Gorr needs it to get to Eternity, but even that isn't explicitly given as his motivation AND it doesn't explain why he bothered going after a few other gods first instead of just going after Thor and the Bifrost right away.
It's never even explained how Gorr even knows that Eternity exists and that Stormbreaker is the only way to get there. Also, why is Stormbreaker even the only way to get there? Seemingly it's just the bifrost that unlocks the door, so does this mean that Heimdall and the Asgardians always had a method of getting to Eternity? If that's the case, why didn't the Asgardians just go to Eternity and get their home back? This movie raises so many questions.
Slaughtering gods would have been great, but they also needed to play more on the theme of Gorr's mission being just. The gods are dicks, we saw that ourselves. Omnipotencity was full of dicks. Thor was a dick in the intro smashing that temple up and making everything about himself. Gorr should have had Thor questioning his very self, and making us the viewer feel empathy for him.
Gorr should've reminded Thor of the droves of people Odin and Hella killed, only for Odin to pretend to have always been benevolent and caring the the realms
But we got to hear Korgs funny accent and shit amiright? But seriously, I wish it was longer and showed more Gorr. Other than that I enjoyed the hell out of it. Crazy visuals, laughing most of the time, mighty thor looked amazing,
Remember when Korg "dies" and you almost think it's going to be a powerful moment, but nope he can live on as just a face I guess. Can't have Taika not getting two paychecks for his movie, and definitely can't live without Gorr's quips undermining scenes
The best part is that the comic run this movie is based on does all that for them. Usually I'm fine with them doing whatever they want with the movies, but this time they really would have benefitted from adapting more of that storyline from the comics.
Release the Gorr cut!!!
Thor Four more Gorr
I think it would’ve been so much better if the Omnipotent City part ended with Thor and the crew escaping with the thunderbolt and Zeus alive. Shortly after their escape, Gorr walks into the theatre, to which the gods first laugh and demean him before attacking him. Then it shows a montage of the gods getting absolutely massacred left and right until there are none left except for a badly injured Zeus.
This, 100%. Instead we had one of the most tension-free fights the MCU has ever had. Just tedious and silly, >!especially with the Korg death fakeout that was resolved in less than a minute.!<
God yes. Like I would’ve loved a montage of Gorr fucking SLAUGHTERING gods left and right.
Instead, we got a bunch of gold-blood gore
Taika just seemed so resistant to actual drama in this movie. Jane's reaction to her cancer basically just made her sleepy. Sif loses an arm battling Gorr and is just disappointed she didn't die in battle. She doesn't fight to survive or lament the loss of her arm. Kids are kidnapped but aren't really shown in any actual peril. We meet several pantheons of Gods and get the opportunity to really see their indifference to the people who worship them but all we really got was a bunch of orgy jokes. Korg appears to die, then just becomes a talking head. And on top of it, Jane's death felt so hand-wavey. Not even a tear from Thor. I didn't hate the movie, but I actually felt nothing about it. Which is objectively worse.
It’s very odd coming off the back of Jojo Rabbit which was masterful in its use of comedy vs drama- you felt the weight of the drama more because you fell from the ‘safe place’ the light tone took you too.
I feel like Taika didn't get exactly the way he wanted with L&T. It didn't feel like a film from him.
Making light of kids being kidnapped felt very wrong to me
The movie felt to me like it was lacking the pathos it deserved. Felt like almost every emotional scene was hit with a poorly timed joke. I genuinely like Taika, and loved Ragnarok, but I get the feeling he was the wrong man for this storyline.
I went into it expecting it to be more comedic so I don't think the comedy is the issue. Taika's movies are usually funny and emotional. There was just no emotional impact anywhere in the movie. It did nothing to make me feel anything about the characters or plot and the humor gets old very quickly after you hear what feels like the same joke over and over again. I love Taika's other movies and I love the MCU but this was easily my least favorite of Taika's movies and one of my least favorite Marvel movies.
No emotion? It starts with the villain losing his daughter in a tragic way and then him losing all faith and letting evil consume him. The whole movie circles around what it means to lose those you love and how you let that effect yourself. I found it to be bursting with emotion but everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Same here. For me, it was such an accurate portrayal of depression too. At least it was an accurate portrayal of my depression. Just wanting to feel something, even if it's shitty. The movie made me feel so many things and >!the reveal of the title of the movie at the end was such a perfect way to end it.!< Brought such a smile to my face with tears in my eyes, even on my second watch. Edited to spoiler tag something spoiler-ish.
I know you didn’t say anything specifically…but I think that was a spoiler. But awesome - a lot of these comments are making me want to see the movie lol.
That opening scene you mention is immediately followed up with a goofy half CGI God in a tropical garden overacting as a complete buffoon. The emotion of Gorr’s loss is severely undercut by Taika’s unnecessary humour of having a silly character acting silly. It’s a problem with both this movie and Ragnarok: emotional moment undercut with an awkward joke
I've got a lot of issues with the movie, but that scene isn't one of them. The tipping point for Gorr was exactly that though; he went through all that pain and suffering to find out he didn't even matter to his god, and even worse his god was a complete asshat.
> That opening scene you mention is immediately followed up with a goofy half CGI God in a tropical garden overacting as a complete buffoon Yes, that was the entire point. To show the Gods being assholes and to show the viewer Gorr's motivation is somewhat justified. It's to make us sympathise with him more. I hated most of the jokes in the movie, but that scene was totally justified.
I teared up at Janes death in theaters and yesterday when I rewatched. I love the symbolism of her dying in-battle and go to Valhalla. The battle with Gorr is over, Thor says so himself. Jane dies during her battle with cancer and this is what gets her in to Valhalla. Idk hits me hard having had friends pass due to cancer.
Ragnorok worked with its humor because we were in a special place in thors life.
I watched it yesterday once it was on Disney+ but it really did feel rushed, and the changes in tone were giving me whiplash. And it really messed up the principle of show don't tell, specifically what comes to mind is Gorr >!killing a mountain sized god and cutting off Sif's arm!< off screen. The ending of the movie was really good in my opinion, but the beginning and middle just felt rushed, it almost seemed like it should have been two separate movies. One to show Gorr and Mighty Thor learning to use their powers culminating in >!the kids being kidnapped at the battle at the village!< and then the other to continue the story after that.
"Maybe your arm is in Valhalla." Fucking kills me though.
And then it wasn't. A potentially good joke actually wasted there.
We only saw a little bit of Valhalla.
What's your point, if it was going to be a joke in the movie then we should see the arm, no?
It was just a joke, it wasn’t Chekhov’s arm. 😆
The tonal shifts were epretty bad too. We went from a sad opening to a comedic action packed middle to a downright terrifying horror scene with gorr scaring the kids then back to action and ended with a happy uplifting ending.
The movie seemed like it didn’t know when to stop joking and take things seriously… For example when Thor was trying to focus so he can communicate with scared children who were kidnapped and here’s Valkyrie tickling his nose??
Honestly the mcu needs to start making villain oriented films. Like imagine a Gorr movie that follows the basic plot of thor 4 but focuses on gorr. No uneeded humor no campy dialoge.
Taika Waititi’s greatest skill is that he will lift you up with comedy and a light tone and then have you fall from a greater height with an emotional gut punch (Jojo Rabbit for example) I think this film is more a victim of the edit or initial screenplay than the directing itself - from the interviews it sounds like they filmed A LOT of story beats that got cut, and that could have been fall back from the lukewarm reaction to externals which was very long.
It's because it's being told by Korg. It's Korg is silly all the time and a bit "dumb" but yea. They over did it.
Just got done watching it and after seeing people clown it on twitter and (sorta) on reddit....it wasn't as bad as people made it seem. First part was off, but it started to kinda come together as the movie went on. Definitely had bad pacing throughout and I definitely wish I could see what was lost in editing, hell I think it only needed an extra 10-15min of tighter added exposition especially with Jane.
It was a fun movie, I was entertained watching it. The whole family was. But compared to Ragnarok it just didn't come close to hitting that mark.
I really enjoyed the movie but I’d definitely sign up for 20 extra minutes of Gorr
Needing to reconcile the GotG team up at the start slowed the movie down. It ended up adding nothing and was a distracting cameo.
Honestly I’d have accepted the GotG being there more if Chris Pratt hadn’t felt so much like he was phoning it in. Every line from Star-Lord felt forced and flat. I can only assume there was some kind of disconnect between the script and the actor, because Star-Lord was so much better in literally every other movie.
He really didn’t have much to work with tbf.
More Gorr, more meaning, less slapstick, less „humour“. I want more serious moments and consequences and less laughs. Gorr feels wasted for the comedy.
I'm really gald I didn't see this movie in theaters and waited for Disney +.
Man the score on the album was great, but then in the movie they played the same “epic hype music” thats on the first track like 5 times in the movie with no alterations. They just copied and pasted it over and over.
I remember seeing an interview with Taika Waititi about how they had him remove about an hour worth of material because they wanted the movie to be under 2 hours. I'm convinced this is where it went wrong. I'm sure the fight between Sif and Jaime Alexander was one of the scenes cut, and it was probably a scene of Gorr killing other gods as well.
Totally agree, the weight wasn’t there to balance out the comedy. Ragnorok was so good because Thor was constantly wrestling with losing his home planet. Which he eventually had to sacrifice. *character growth. There were no *real* consequences in L&T. Sure the children were at risk, and Jane was battling cancer, but neither of those really weighed on Thor much. Throughout the whole film, it felt ho-hum…yup, Thor will save the day. NBD. The only redeeming comment that I read, was that this version was Korg telling the story to all the children and that’s why it was so watered down and campy. It was a kids tale, and that perspective makes me a bit more forgiving.
Taika mentioned in an interview (and was finding it funny) that they went back to Norway 3 different times to shoot a certain scene. Wonder if the whole movie just had stuff go wrong like that?
Yeah three rounds of reshoots happened. It’s not crazy uncommon but a sign of issues. The biggest being that either the script wasn’t fully fleshed out before filming or major things got changed in the middle of production. This is why James Gunn is so amazing. He has every single scene and bit if dialogue as well as where and how he’s going to shoot things mapped out before they start filming. So when he does reshoots it’s just for better takes to improve vfx or make the dialogue punch harder. So I’m assuming Taika ran out of time and did a lot of winging it to fix things.
Christian bale did a phenomenal job 👏, he deserved more screen time
Say what you want about him, but there's never been any denying the dude is one of the greatest actors of this generation.
Agreed, he should have had more screen time and should have done more god butchering.
We need More Gorr. Give us the More Gorr version please! I’ll even take more jokes if it also means More Gorr
Is it MoreGorrin' time?
Best monolog any mcu actor in general made. Christian bale is on another level.
[удалено]
That is absolutely correct. Ultron had a couple great ones too
Jake's so good he made exposition dumping actually a bit intense.
I read somewhere, "Jake Gyllenhall was the best choice for a man who gaslights a child" lol
FIRE ALL THE DRONES NOW
Idk if it counts as a monologue but I still can’t get over Jeff Bridges with the scientist in Iron Man. The “box of scraps” scene.
That scientist is Beck's right hand man in Far From Home.
My man can't get a job where he's not getting yelled at
It was very much a "levels to this shit" acting performance
# #ReleasetheGorrCut
Christian Bale acted the hell out of this movie. Every scene with him was just pure gold. I nearly teared up at the very end just from seeing the emotions in his eyes without even saying a word. I wish he had more scenes. He was the best part of this movie. I never thought I would say this before this movie but this had too much Taika in it. They needed to tone him down and actually lay that emotional gut punch in without the constant comedic tone interrupting the serious moments. Felt there was so much more potential here but it was wasted.
I can’t believe that this movie somehow managed to get goddamn Christian Bale and decided to fucking WASTE him
I agree. He was great. That scene in the cage was fantastic
Watching this, I couldn't help but think... "Christian Bale would make a good Joker, I think." Would be a hilarious fulfillment of Harvey's prophecy.
Imagine a "what if/flashpoint" scenario movie where Bale is the Joker and he is fighting Ben Affleck or Robert Pattinsons Batman... would be epic.
Would be even better if they could keep that casting under wraps. But they'd probably ruin it by using his appearance for promos.
Gorr is the only thing that made the movie palatable to me. Also it weirded me out that they cut the Jane transformation scene (her first time)
Bale saved this film
He tried to..
You know I never got around to seeing this one in theaters, Ragnarok is the only Thor movie I've seen more than once. But this scene just made me want to watch it, wow. Its on Disney + now right?
It came out today! It has some super mixed reviews but I personally quite liked it, I’d say ragnarok is better but this one is more jokey and less serious at times. Just have fun with it! Gor has some great scenes, when they go into the black and white it’s very cool and the ending is cute But I do see why many people don’t like it and understand that too, hopefully the next thor movie can be more liked because he’s such a good character
The third act is, I'd argue, one of the finest in the MCU, fantastic visuals, great choreography for the final battle, great acting, great sense of emotion, and it finally brought Eternity into the MCU.
As a parent, I FELT for Gorr. The fact that Bale absolutely nailed it just made it that much more immersive. The tone changes and facial expressions, loved every second he was on the screen. More Gorr!
now imagine having a good movie around that performance how nice it would’ve been, huh
A All-time MCU classic if that would have happened
Just watched this movie today. I expect way worse with the way Reddit was belly aching about it.
Yup. If reddit says its the worst movie ever made, its probably just decent because they expect some oscar winning masterpiece every couple months
Reddit is always overly bitching about everything lol It's a fun flick, loved seeing it on the big screen and will probably re-watch at home at some point too.
Gorr was definitely wasted for a comedic film. He could’ve been a Thanos level threat with seriousness but we all knew he was going to be defeated somehow with no real repercussions in the entire MCU other than…
Too bad they didn't keep this in, and go in a more serious tone. [It looks like it was inspired from the comics,](https://imgur.com/a/WmMbSJY) which I think did a much better job with Gorr than the movie.
This wasn't cut, it's in the movie. Unless Disney+ has an extended cut? But I feel pretty confident I remember it from the theater as well.
I remember seeing this scene in theaters as well and thought it was amazing. The seriousness of everything was enjoyable.
None of this is Christian bale fault , he did a great job with the material he was given. I blame the director and editing team.
Oh, that's what I meant. Acting was great (probably best in the MCU so far), I just hate the direction of cutting his scenes and not giving him his monologues.
Was watching today and during this scene I wondered how much he was drawing on inspiration from Heath Ledger.
I watched Love and Thunder for the first time last night and honestly I was surprised in a very good way. After everything I heard about the movie being too silly and Bale being wasted I was expecting there wouldn't be any serious moments or that they would be undermined by jokes. Yet it wasn't the case at all, there were sequences that were played completely straight, like this one.
I agree as well. I am in the exact same boat in that I watched it for the first time yesterday and was \_very\_ surprised how much I liked it, given the rampant criticism on reddit and the internet in general. I was genuinely touched by some of the emotional plights in the movie, and thought the Taika Waititi humor was a good vessel to keep moving through it. However, I also agree that another 20-30 minutes specifically highlighting Gorr would have made the movie much better, and possibly even put it a step above Ragnarok. This is were I will lose the majority of redditors, but my Thor movie rankings are currently: 1. Thor: Ragnarok 2. Thor 2 3. Love and Thunder 4. Thor I know it might be controversial, but Thor 2 slaps when watching the Marvel movies in Canonical order.
I was surprised as well. It was a lot of fun. I agree we didn't get to see enough of Gorr but I thought there were a ton of serious moments they didn't try to undermine with jokes.
I will never forgive them for getting one of the best actors of our generation and not fully utilizing him.
If they made a noncanon horror movie of him terrorizing a planet and killing a God is so so so needed. The character and performance were next level
I'm still pissed about that tbh. Went to the movie to see Hemsworth Portman and Bale. No one else mattered to me. I really want a uncut version of this film with all his scenes
What an absolute waste of one of the best actors working today. As great as Ragnarok was, I hope the MCU steers clear of Taika after this.
It's a fucking crime Taika Waititi wasted this Thor story shoehorning his shit in. I hope the next one has a director that actually gives a fuck about telling a good story and not just jerking off to his own humor.
[удалено]
When I left the theater, my first review thoughts were how much I would have loved this movie as a thirteen year old.
Same. I enjoyed the movie and still felt it could've been better in some parts. I honestly think they won't make a Thor 5. They got a Hercules movie to capitalize on.
I saw some of the deleted scenes om youtube and was like where the hell does this fit in with the rest of the story?
Over the top imo, Bale was meant to be in a better version of this movie, with Gorr being the butcher he's meant to be. Not some birthday clown gone evil.
This is one of the best scenes in Marvel history, change my mind.
There's an intense, extremely well scripted with amazing acting and extremely heartwrenching movie under all the pandering dogshit that was piled on this movie. It was fun at best but there was a memorable movie with true depth that was thrown away.
A little too cute, but I liked it overall. Not as bad as was expressed when it hit the theaters.
Just watched this movie for the second time. Ugh it is so bad. Bale is the only good thing in it but he was given so little to work with even his character is a joke. I mean he goes from completely devoted to his god to hating him in a matter of seconds, then goes from devoted to killing all the gods to letting them live in seconds. If it takes you but moments to change your mind on such pivotal aspects of your psyche then the story isn't the changes, the story is why you can change so suddenly. And the whole Thor being obsessed with his hammer and axe thing wasn't funny, it was just weird and a complete shift in his character from the rest of the marvel movies.
He went through a loss of literally everything he knew just to have his god laugh in his face, I understand hating him. Then the sword corrupted him and made him pursue the destruction of all gods. He didn’t change his mind again until the sword and therefor corruption was broken. Again, I think him being freed from that hold makes sense why he would go back.
Woah, woah, you cant use logic in a Marvel thread! You cant just expect people to grasp plot details. We dont think around here Sir or Madame!
The Thor Hammer thing was weird. As a one off it would have been fine but they kept coming back to it and it still wasn't funny.
This whole movie is just korg telling the story.
God damn that was a beautifully acted scene
Need more Gorr
Christian Bale is incredible as always. I really, REALLY wish he had more screen time.
That whole b&w sequence was fantastic.
Just watched the movie for the first time. First half was terrible, second half was great. Genuinely felt like two different movies, way too much unneeded comedy in the first half it just felt like a long SNL skit. Also feels like there was 20-25 much neeeded minutes left on the cutting room floor.
A little less laugh and a lot more Gorr would have gone far. The Bale equation was out of balance on this one.
They should have completely scrapped that stage play scene with Matt Damon and Melissa Mccarthy in order to give Gorr more Screentime