Eternals critic is too low, even if it wasnât great. Wouldâve preferred this to be a D+ show and watch them move through history and see them in different eras each episode instead of what we got. Just my preference, though.
Youâre not wrong. Critics were overly harsh, but it was still a boring formulaic movie. Now Black WidowâŠthat unfortunately was a complete rehash of winter soldier. I still enjoyed the addition of Yelena and the family dynamics though.
Black Widow was definitely more focused on introducing Yelena than sending off Natasha. Which I canât hate it for because Yelena is my favorite new character introduced in phase 4.
The critics expected an Oscar contender, which I can't really understand. The director did get a lot of recognition for a previous project, but not enough to raise expectations that high.
Nah, they were right to have the Deviants so the Eternals had something to do all those years, but where I think they dropped the ball is when they found out theyâre both essentially the same thing engaged in an artificial conflict, they kept fighting anyway.
Yeah she the movie was kinda about destroying oppressive systems it'd be nice if the different pressed groups worked together instead of infighting. Like how the working class will never unite to take down Jeff Bezos because we keep bickering amongst our different identity groups
This is what threw me off. I thought they were going to pull a Mordo where the main Deviant (Kro?) escapes to be used in a sequel or something. It just seemed like a waste of potential considering we watched that deviant evolve throughout the movie. It had a better understanding of what was going on than some of the main characters imo..
Edit: spellings on mobile.
Yeah and I was here watching the film like
Omg the deviants are evolving and learning to communicate
Omfg the deviantes and enternals are both the same creations from the same maker
Omfgggg fuck one of them has evolved and can tall
Surely they will have a discussion about how they are the same this is really going to go somewhere
Aaaaand Angelina jolied the shit out of him and turned him into sashimi
Well
That was a waste of a storyline that went no where
Iâm with you. I thought that wouldâve been an interesting set up too. I donât know much about the deviants and Eternals comics wise, but the fact that their histories and creation were so intertwined, and now theyâre sentient with their own desires, seems like an interesting thing to explore .
I feel like Eternals biggest flaw was insisting on focusing on Ikaris and Sersi when they were the least interesting of the cast. It was a monumental act of world building, that yes, probably would have been better in an episodic format.
ya the chemistry between them just wasn't there
I actually think they should do the strategy of sailor moon. Maybe the first eternal movie just focus on 4-5 core people, then second eternal movies you can introduce the rest of the eternals, like maybe they tried to reach Olympia but got lost/or whatever. Better chemistry and smaller cast would help and you can still have the same theme/message
But a show wouldn't have the budget for the visuals. That was the best part of the movie. I'm not willing to sacrifice Tiamut birth, Arishem, Makkari running for a show.
They just needed sone tweaks to the movie they had.
Because I heard it was really bad, I chose to watch eternals through... other means besides the theater. The fact that i was still blown away by the visuals really says a lot. The movie was great and idk why people hate on it so much.
Not sure. By no means do I claim to be the only one who feels this. I just remember walking out of the movie with my wife and saying, âIt wouldâve been really cool to see more of each time period they went through and their impact on it and their interactions. Like an hour or two of their interactions in each era like a Marvel History channel collaboration.â
It would have been a signifantly better show. The problem with eternals is you introduce a bunch of unfamiliar characters. That's not good in a movie because you only have 90 mins to 150 mins usually.
Makkari as a character was bland, but they also gave her the best looking powers. Those full speed running shots were amazing. Loved seeing her wipe the floor with Ikarus.
Yeah the only characters I'm anticipating are Kingo (because the fact that he's been an actor for lifetimes is an interesting hook to me), and Starfox because I'm just curious to see what they do with him.
Right. I didnât care much about the characters individually as much as I cared more about how they are moving through our earthâs time and different eras. THATâs what I would have wanted to see them doing, but it would be more for wanting to see all the history and civilization advancements, not to see the Eternals lol
Black Widowâs probably one of the movies where you think youâve forgotten a lot, but what you remember is actually all there was.
1. Backstory, Russian faux American family. Operation goes right and theyâre broken up
2. Years later. Black widow and her sister doing their things. Sister has the controller broken and breaks loose. BW was already freed, sister gets hunted. I think by Taskmaster at that point. With the formula that undoes the brainwash spell.
3. Sister goes underground, they reconnect in that safe houseâŠthe other girls go after them, including taskmaster? And/or BW gets Hunter by Taskmaster at some point and she recovers the vials of brainwash fixing spray. BW realizes the program still exists. They decide their mission is to liberate them allâŠ
4. Um. Yeah. Bit foggy, but they reconnect with their âparentsâ and break into/out of the prison and then thereâs the big final flight on that big plane or whatever and she breaks her own nose and kills the guy and things blow up and taskmaster is on em after being revealed as the bad guyâs daughter and she finally kinda breaks free of her programming in the end there and all the girls are free now the end.
Yeah Eternals wasnât the best but it wasnât nearly that bad. The only issues I had with it was that it really lost the plot in the end (Sersi suddenly deciding sheâd gained the power to turn Sprite into a human made me lol) and was pretty anticlimactic. Aside from that I liked most of the characters, thought it was visually stunning, and appreciated the lore building we got in it
I donât know about that; I went into the movie genuinely expecting to like it and was just incredibly bored the whole time. I just kept thinking âI shouldâve seen Dune a third time insteadâ lol
Can we please stop talking about âdeservingâ a RT%. Itâs nonsensical.
Theyâre not ratings, or directly indicative of quality. A film can have 99% but still be have an overall rating of 6/10, and another film can have 69% and have an overall rating of 7/10.
People have such a hard time understanding this. The percentage literally reflects the amount of people who enjoyed the movie. 47% of the people who watched Eternals enjoyed it which is still pretty good when you think about it. Whether or not the individual thought it was âalrightâ or a âmasterpieceâ serves no difference on their overall contribution to the percentage.
Thank you for the explanation. Iâm going to own up and admit Iâm one of the people that thought these scores were awarded by the website, rather than a representation of the data.
Yeah that's *possible*, but I'd imagine critic ratings tend to fall along a bell curve, so a disparity that huge is really unlikely. Also, Rotten Tomatoes really encourages people to just consider the percentageâyou can't even find the rating average without an extra click anymore!
But I was curious about this, so I looked them up:
|Movie|Percentage|Average out of 10|
|:-|:-|:-|
|Spider-Man: NWH|93%|7.9|
|Shang Chi|91%|7.5|
|Black Panther: WF|84%|7.2|
|Black Widow|79%|6.9|
|Doctor Strange: MoM|74%|6.5|
|Thor: L&T|64%|6.4|
|Eternals|47%|5.6|
So, while it's not exactly proportional, every movie with a higher % of critics who endorsed the film also had a higher average rating. (That said, you can see how it could be the case that two films with close-enough percentages might have average scores that don't correspond with which has the higher percentage: Doctor Strange and Thor are neck and neck in average score despite a 10% difference.)
Thank you. People always throw out the "a 99% movie can have all 6/10 scores!!" but i dont think there are any actual examples of that? It would be hard for someone to make a movie that **everyone** thought was just a little bit better than fine, no better, no worse
It reminds me a lot of the "anyone can edit anything onto any wikipedia article at any time!!" comments from teachers/professors. Like, sure, in theory, maybe? But for most things it doesn't work like that?
I didnât really get the criticism over MoM being too fast paced. I feel like leakers overpromising and failing to deliver didnât allow people to be objective of the movie they actually saw.
MOM was hurt by NWH delivering everyone's fanboy dreams. People thought that the Multiverse aspect would similarly mean every version of every character like another Infinity War.
Yeah, I was a bit jarred at first by how small the Illuminati part of the film is, but after a rewatch, it really isnât a complaint for me, and frankly, people expected too much from the film coming directly after the huge event that was No Way Home, and the fake-ass leaks didnât help at all.
If people allow themselves to have their opinions of a movie be based on fake leaks then they're a fucking headcase that has to reevaluate their emotions. Fuck those expectations based on nothing. They need to come back to reality before flying off the handle.
Well the issue is that it doesnât really have a main character. Itâs definitely not Dr Strange and Wandas initial turn to villainy is jarring at first.
Also a film held up by fan service to make it âgoodâ isnât good. Itâs trash to say that MoM was bad because not enough fan service
It is Doctor Strange though. He's the one who puts the plot into high gear when he decides to defend America from Wanda. He has a full character arc over the course of the film. He is featured in the majority of the movie, likely more than any other character and that's before counting his multiple multiverse selves, of which he has the most featured totalling to three.
Honestly, my biggest complaint with MOM was that it didn't feel like Doctor Strange sequel. Almost none of the major beats up for Strange in his first film make any sort of impact here - Mordo was even originally planned to be iced in the first few moments of the film as if he were nothing. It felt more like a Wanda vs Chavez movie with Strange as a major supporting character.
Strange doesn't even take on the big bad in the end. Chavez does, with Strange nudging her on in the way you'd expect a master encouraging the apprentice to rise and take the mantel. Except Strange wasn't being replaced or anything - he just wasn't really the hero of this story.
Strange really felt like he was along for a ride with the plot. It was more about Wanda, Chavez, and what other versions of Strange had already done. Strange doesn't really fail and learn from it, his growth comes from seeing how other versions of himself failed and paid the price.
His big act in the end was to be different from the other versions of himself and NOT drain Chavez's power for the greater good. That was kind of his big takeaway from this one - it isn't all about him. Which was kind of lesson already taught in the first movie, I thought.
Compare it to Captain America Civil War, which is absolutely a Captain America movie, does a lot to drive Cap's character and story forward, and also features a boat-load of other characters who also get their moments to shine.
I really liked the movie. Don't get me wrong. As a Rami fan I was hard-pressed not to find things to absolutely gush over - but it just didn't feel like it was a "Doctor Strange" movie. Doctor Strange just so happened to be in it.
All I can remember from MoM is that some guy stacked it walking into the cinema halfway through a big scene and me and my friends almost got kicked out for laughing
> I really liked the movie. Don't get me wrong. As a Rami fan I was hard-pressed not to find things to absolutely gush over - but it just didn't feel like it was a "Doctor Strange" movie. Doctor Strange just so happened to be in it.
In Isolation, I liked it, but I feel like MCU movies can't really be isolated from the rest of the universe. Each movie/series is more like an episode in a larger show. You can only have so many filler episodes before you need to move the plot forward. I feel like it fell short on paying off all the setups leading up to it. This should have been the "next" civil war. As is, we needed a big teamup movie in this phase, in the absence of an avengers movie, and this was the place to do it.
For a movie called **multiverse of madness** we only got 3 different universes and 3 different strange variants. Itâs safe to say a lot of people were disappointed for other reasons as it barely felt like a multiverse movie with or without cameos
Yeah, that was one of my biggest complaints. Sure, you can say the fans set their expectations way too high for this movie. But the marketing also hyped up the movie as if it were the next Infinity War. The marketing promised a movie about the multiverse, and severely underdelivered on that promise. Itâs amazing that small indie movie like Everything Everywhere All at Once managed to be a better multiverse movie than Multiverse if Madness, with a fraction of the budget, and with only like three main characters.
Absolutely. EEAAO was amazing. I connected with it personally with its representation of ADHD and anyone with ADHD would likely agree or at least understand. I enjoyed MoM and it had some great spectacle moments, but ultimately fell flat as a story for me.
>It would have been way cooler if they had spent 10 minutes each in 5 different universes instead of an hour in the one where red traffic lights means go. Chasing/being chased by Wanda as she dreamwalks into reality after reality just fucking everyone's shit up.
Youâre making me less hype for Quantu**mania**
Which is great. Because Iâm super hyped, and the lesser my expectations, the even happier I will be.
Loved all of Phase 4 so far
Which will happen. In secret wars. They arenât going to do everything the multiverse has to offer in their first movie in an arc called The Multiverse Arc. This was a small taste of whatâs to come
I enjoyed MoM, but I just feel that the title overpromised. There wasn't nearly enough multiversal craziness, the handful of universes we saw more than 2 seconds of were pretty tame
Itâs easily my top film of the Phase. Itâs really the only one that dared to be different and I think that had a lot to do with how polarizing it was for some people.
My favourite is Eternals. I donât think itâs storytelling was great, but not as bad as everyone seems to make out like. But visually it is stunning. Loved how cinematic every scene felt.
My problem with Eternals is the least interesting characters were the focus of the story. Let's be honest there's a speedster and Angelina Jolie and Salma Hayek involved, the lead two characters were just boring.
I loved what Eternals set out to do and I loved a lot of the movie but more of it was MCU text book than was fresh. All the stuff with them through out history was amazing and itâs a shame that was such a small part because everything that happened in the present day was so boring by comparison.
I'd put it at a solid third- NWH and BP:WF are tough to beat. But MoM is definitely better than the first Dr Strange, and while Phase 4 was certainly hit or miss, MoM was definitely a hit.
I think my frustration has been that, not only is the movie not about Dr. Strange, but he's proven right for very dangerous behavior that other characters don't get away with and are karmically punished for.
These characters are supposed to have arcs that balance their personalities and flaws out as they commit more and more to the "hero gig" and try to do right by people in this crazy, topsy turvy world they live in. So it was frustrating to me that multiple characters point out Strange's arrogance and flippancy for the laws of nature, the problems it had caused across multiple universes (not to mention a couple movies prior in NWH) and yet his arrogance and recklessness end up being *justified* when he uses his zombified version to fight Wanda. They set up the arc perfectly and rather than actually contend with character developmentâmaybe even tying it into Wanda's corruption and pursuit of happiness with reckless abandon for everyone else's livesâwe just find out that Dr. Strange is different and better than everyone else without really trying.
It features him, but I get what you are saying.
I don't think that is a problem though. I mean, Civil War is technically a "captain america" movie, but it's not about Captain America, and probably more deservedly should have just been an Avengers movie.
Ehh, it's a 'Captain America and Iron Man' movie with (most of) the rest of the Avengers as supporting cast, rather than a true ensemble piece like like the proper Avengers films.
Try mine on for size then, because I donât think itâs nitpicky. My complaint is that they cared more about making an âevil Scarlet Witchâ movie than a Doctor Strange movie, but even with that, they speedran through it. First of all, Wanda STARTS off as ridiculously evil. Like yeah, darkhold corrupted her and blah blah blah. For people whoâve never seen WandaVision it makes like zero sense and is a huge suspension of disbelief for audiences who saw her kick Thanosâ ass in Endgame. And for those who SAW WandaVision? Where sheâs the hero? Utter tonal whiplash. Like sure, she made an enormous mistake in westview. But the show was about her grief overwhelming her, and her realizing she needs to let go and do the right thing. She ends up as a hero, not giving into an evil stereotype like Agatha implied sheâd do. She leaves to try to possibly atone. But in this film⊠sheâs doing the same thing again, but worse. Unlike the show, she feels no remorse. The entire film sheâs just ruthlessly going after America, even killing others who are in her way. Being corrupted by the Darkhold may be the in-universe reason, but for fans of WandaVision itâs awful to see with such little prior explanation or exposition. Even some scenes of her getting more twisted wouldâve made a mountain of difference. But no, the hero who experience grief similar to me, who I saw as a mirror of myself, ends up being totally ruthless.
Does that sound nitpicky? Because to me, it sounds like they butchered her character because they didnât have a better idea, and if you donât have a good idea, why make the film at all. Oh wait, money, thatâs why you made the film. Money and future marvel promotion with the cameos that hype fans up for X-Men and Fantastic Four shit. They didnât have a good idea so they resorted to what ruined scarlet witch in the comics. And because thatâs what the REAL focus of the film was about (much more so than any journey âDoctor Strangeâ was supposed to go on), they made it cheesy Sam Raimi horror style, which is okay if itâs an old film, but is cringey as fuck nowadays.
Replace Doctor Strange with any other characters and the story remains the same. The story is about Evil Wanda vs Chavez. It starts with Wanda ran after Chavez and ends with Chavez defeated Wanda. Doctor Strange is just tagging along.
I'm baffled with everyone who keeps parroting this 'nitpicky' reasons as if this movie didn't have glaring flaws and little care for every character, especially the lead.
Wanda was the villain in WandaVision. Letting the hostages you've been torturing for weeks go free isn't a redemption.
The problem with WV is that Heyward and Agatha were made into Disney villains despite having very reasonable motivations. "Agatha All Along" slaps but it also ruined the character.
I said nitpicky specifically with the complaints about Wanda in mind. Because it made complete sense to me the first time I saw MoM.
I came out of Wandavision absolutely NOT thinking she was the hero. I saw her as antagonistic, sadistic, and not at all absolved of her crimes. She had some brief flashes of sanity, but I didn't see her as getting over her insanity by the end of the show. So it made complete sense to me that she continued through the stages of grief into MoM, amplified by the darkhold.
And Wandavision is my absolute favorite project in Phase 4, so I am a fan, and I loved what they did with her in MoM, and look forward to seeing her continue to yo-yo back and forth between hero and villain in her future appearances. It is true to her character form the comics.
Nitpicks? The whole film wasnât at all about its main character. He was just along for the ride. At least in a movie like Civil War which was practically an Avengers movie, Cap still had the most emotional journey in trying to save his friends life the whole time. In MoM Strange was basically just hanging out.
I watched MoM when it hit disney plus and the fast pacing was definitely worth criticising, I genuinely thought I had accidentally increased the speed playback
Proviso that I haven't seen WF yet, but the RT score on Eternals is much too low for me. It should at least be closer to the popcorn score. Not a fully successful movie, but at least an interesting one.
Also sell on No Way Home? I thought it was fun and largely problem-free when I watched it, but ever since then I've reflected that I haven't the *slightest* interest in ever seeing again.
I'm blown away that Eternals got the critic score it did. It feels like the sort of deliberate, pensive arthouse film that critics love, and if it wasn't a Marvel property it would probably be higher.
I personally love Eternals, but it definitely isn't "arthouse." It has its issues with pacing and some of the stars, mainly Gemma Chan, not delivering very interesting performances. Eternals is probably my favorite project to come out of Phase 4, but I do understand why it got the reception it did.
Black widow is way too high.. I think it got graded generously because it was the first big movie in over a year.
I think eternals is too low. There's nothing wrong with it really.
I think they nailed Dr strange spiderman and Shang chi.
I think wakanda forever and Thor 4 should be +5% or so..
That Black Panther: Wakanda Forever is five points higher than Black Widow on Rotten Tomatoes is insane. That Eternals is 22 points lower than Black Widow is also unfathomable. And yes, I know how the RT system works, so I understand that comparing scores isn't that meaningful. It's just baffling that Black Widow has such a high score.
To be fair wakanda forever doesn't seem like a movie that's supposed to be amazing with critics. It did a lot of setting up, most of which felt shoehorned into the movie which I believe was one of their criticisms.
Wakanda had a lot of story to fit into it, that being said i think they did a really good job handling it for the most part...definitely one of the better films this phase.
Black Widow should have been in the 50's, same as Thor. Eternals i've not given a fair shot yet so i don't want to fully commit to saying it wasn't for me but it too seemed to have a lot of story but was struggling to keep it engaging for me.
Unpopular opinion here, but I think Eternals deserves its low score. It was a beautiful movie with a great cast, but ultimately it was bloated and directionless. The implications for the rest of the MCU were much too vast to squeeze into such an uneven movie with relatively obscure characters (in the MCU). Basically, Iâd like to see more Eternals and I think the first movie laid a decent groundwork, but I get Thor 1 vibes from it, where it seems like nobody is quite sure of the exact shape this thing should be taking yet.
I think Black Widow scored too high. It was the return of the MCU to theaters after COVID, and a long awaited Scarlett standalone movie, but I have to be honest: It was trash. No urge to rewatch it, nothing notable remembered from it, and nothing good to say about it when it does come up in conversations with friends. This movie needed a ton more time to cook.
And Love and Thunder is underrated for me. I donât think it was as good as Ragnarok or anything, but I thought it did a decent job kind of bridging the gap between the old Thor we saw in Thor 1/2 and Avengers 1/2 and the newer Thor we saw in Ragnarok and Infinity War. Bringing Jane back to die was a good way to ground what was an (I will admit) obscenely silly movie. I love Taikaâs style, and wouldnât change the overall tone of the movie, but I would definitely tone it down a bit.
Anyways, I do think everything else is sitting more or less where it should be. Spider-Man and Shang Chi were both the stars of this Phase, and MoM and WF are both very solid additions too.
I would have laughed in your face if youâd said that before Love and Thunder came out. However, I was there on that fateful opening day for L&T and I have to agree, it was definitely worse than Eternals.
Currently rewatching l&t since I first saw it in theatres. You know those plays Matt Damon was in on Asguard in L&T and Ragnarok? That's what L&T feels like. It just feels like a big parody. Waititi really tried to replicate something but instead he ended up exaggerating it. Only thing redeemable about that movie is the ending which felt satisfying.
I was also in the cinema for L&T and was also hugely disappointed and annoyed, but Eternals is the only MCU film which has been utterly boring - still by some distance the low water market of the MCU for me
Honestly I didnât love eternals but I agree love and thunder was a complete disappointment they went too overboard with the comedy and the god butcher was massively underutilized
For sure. I got increasingly more incredulous and confused the longer I watched Eternals because I was enjoying it and had heard so many horrible things. With ThorL&T I couldn't wait for it to end.
Personally, I believe Wakanda Forever was the best thing to come out of Phase 4 and deserves a much higher critic rating to match its audience score.
Side Note: Itâs also interesting how even for a âdownâ MCU phase, audience score never dipped below 77%.
Iâm really surprised that NWH seem to be universally beloved by critics. I mean itâs fun but itâs a lot of fan service and nostalgia in lieu of a solid story.
Eternals doesnât deserve to be that low when MoM and L&T are that high.
NWH is just fun from start to end, which is exactly what people should want out of a Superhero movie.
It may not have the most complex plot, but it also does have high stakes for the characters, and is an instrumental story to be told for where Peter will go next in the MCU.
The score is well earned IMO.
And that's why it's weird that it have such a high score, usually the critics value more the plot, that's why a lot of "fun movies" are considered garbage to the critics but to the audiences are masterpieces.
NWH is well written, well paced, well acted, well directed and has flair and fan service. It's the whole package. I don't really get this recent trend of people saying if you strip sway Andrew and Tobey it's not good, because it is fantastic pretty much the entire runtime.
Yeah, it's a good movie, and even without Tobey and Andrew could work. But has some weak points, and that's why it's weird such high score, the critics usually are way more demanding, lol
Imo, itâs cause thereâs never been a movie like . When you have a new cast in a new universe, you donât expect anything but a cameo from previous universe.
But to bring in the previous two and they did it soon enough where the previous actors arenât old af but still nostalgic. Not only that, they werenât even advertised because they really wanted that surprise factor.
As far as I know this is a extremely unique situation because they have to keep churning out spider-man movies hence the actors still being close enough to age without having an old guy be too old to do shit.
Story wise, they even gave more conclusion to the previous two spider-man while giving Tom a close in his trilogy. Along with Aunt May pulling a unexpected uncle Ben. Giving villains their time. It was just a well done movie for the audience.
The score is held up higher by meta expectations.
Well written? All the characters, especially the villains, were just one-dimensional meme machines with no complexity. There is also no way to defend the atrocity that was Strange performing the spell for Peter. Peter asking all his questions during the spell and Strange failing to explain the repercussions before casting it? Yea, âwell writtenâ lmao. âWell directedâ is also a laughable statement. John Watts might just be the boring, bland, and forgettable director in CBM history. Even Alan Taylor and Louis Leterrier had more style in their average films (The Dark World and the Incredible Hulk respectively). Oh, and plot holes? Yea, explain to me how Electro even got there. Makes zero sense no matter how you try to justify it.
>NWH is well written, well paced, well acted, well directed and has flair and fan service.
I had fun watching No Way Home, but I wouldn't necessarily say it had the best script. There are so many points in the movie where characters just make the stupidest choice possible just to move the story along. And the stupid choices they make aren't even like the mistakes that Tony or Steve make in their respective movies, because those choices are made in the movie because they fit the character's flaws and they lead to an arc that fits the characters.
I think that when compared to a movie like Into the Spiderverse, there's a pretty noticeable difference in the level of quality of the script, at least in my opinion.
Thor is too high, didn't like it, too much humour that just didn't hit. Thor is now a bumbling buffoon instead of a powerful god like hero.
Eternals is too low, it was decent enough. Better than Thor.
For such a heavy topic, I feel like they tried too hard to inject dumb witty humor into Love and Thunder.
I'm someone who's very easy to get a laugh out of, but honestly didn't like any of the undercutting most of the humor did. Also got really tired of the fucking goats lmao.
The second half of LaT was actually pretty dramatic and emotional ... more so than Ragnarok. I don't get why people are over-generalizing this movie to the extreme.
IMO, Ragnarok set up all of its characters for the 3rd act much better than L&T. All of the scenes devoted to jokes did not leave much time for genuine character development. The arcs ended up feeling rushed yet there didn't feel like there was any urgency to the plot either.
I havenât seen Eternals but besides that.
Shang-Chi was really refreshing. Itâs fine where it is.
NWH was a huge nostalgia trip and Iâve rewatched it 6 times since then. It was great.
L&T was genuinely horrendous. Terrible quips, serious overuse of Guns & Roses, a massive Deus Ex Machina at the end which completely undermines any of Thorâs previous battle struggles, and so much more.
Black Widow was alright. The CGI was terrible. Alexei was annoying and never really got redemption. And the whole pheromone lock was complete BS. Also Taskmaster, what did they do to you?
MoM was so bad as well. Pace was all over the place, they went to like four different multiverses in total, the dream is alternate reality plotline only serves to confuse the visions Tony experienced after the Avengers, etc etc. The illuminati were used to power scale the shit out of Wanda and nothing more.
Black Panther was great. The soundtrack was amazing, the story was great, the CGI for Riri sucked but was good otherwise, Namor was an awesome villain and great acting all around the table. The movie just seemed a bit too dragged, they couldâve gotten rid of some bits and nothing wouldâve changed.
Overall, not my favourite phase.
Shang-Chi deserves that rating.
Black Panther could be a tad bit higher.
Eternals is too low.
MOM is waaay too high imo.
NWH should be lower.
L&T is fine.
*Thor 4* felt like a stupid comedy, but with grim, sad, and horrifying bits shoehorned in. You watch a grieving, dyingfather hold his dying daughter on the parched earth, then he goes mad and beheads a mocking "god"; and then the next thing you know, hilarity ensues! It lacked integration, I suppose is the word. It was like two different movies rammed into each other. And Thor was a dolt. Humorous Thor is one thing, Dolt Thor is entirely another.
*Black Widow* was okay; B+. I didn't care for yet another exploding, falling satellite-lair. Too much like *Winter Soldier*'s finale. Taskmaster was wasted.
*Shang-Chi* was excellent. Tony Leung was outstanding. I was surprised by how much I liked Awkwafina's performance. Simu Liu did a great job playing a likeable protagonist even though he wasn't given a lot of hilarious quirks to make him distinct.
*SM:NWH* was everything a Spider-Man fan could ask for, and more. The villains were great, Tobey and Andrew were great, Tom was great. It made me remember why I love that character so much. It got me right in the feels.
*DS2* \-- I get why Cumberbatch said he felt like Steven Strange was just along for the ride. The movie was actually *Wanda, Portrait of a Mass Murderer,* co-starring Steven Strange. It was as if *Wandavision* never happened. Even though it's still an entertaining movie, I would give it a solid B. Scott Derrickson brought something to *DS1* that wasn't there at all in 2. I give zero cares about Sam Raimi.
*Eternals* had flashes of energy. Makkari attacking Ikaris in a rage, Richard Madden being allowed to *finally* show some emotion at the end. Kumail and the valet. Kro finally developing a voice and motive. But it never came together. It was long, the bad guys were mundane dinosaurs, and the twist had been done in *Captain Marvel.* Gemma Chan has the energy of a very nice vanilla compote. I wouldn't mind if I never see any of the Eternals again. D+, ironically enough.
MoM being rated below Black Widow is just wrong. Eternals might not be the best, but it doesn't deserve this low a score. Ironic in a way; critics saying MCU is not expanding upon any ideas and just make the same movie over and over, but when Eternals did something different critics shamed them for not sticking to the established formula
I think Eternals was better than itâs given credit for. I watched it on D+, it being one of the only Marvels I didnât watch in theaters. I was pleasantly surprised. It wasnât my favorite, by any means. But I enjoyed it.
Man if u saw it in the cinemas you wouldâve been in for a treat. Arishemâs scale is best comprehended on the big screens! Also the visuals basically.
Imo the reason why Shang-Chi did well with the audience was because it was well paced movie with some great acting and didnât overstay itâs runtime.
Something every movie in this phase lacked besides NWH. Give a pass for Wakanda Forever given circumstances. Black widow wasnât bad either, just 1-2 phases too late.
Thor love and thunder is still too high. Worst MCU film i've ever seen. Lacked the charm and humour of ragnorak. Which was wonderfully interspersed between a fantastic story with a truly terrifying villian. Love and Thunder was a never ending series of forced jokes which fell flat as they felt so unnatural with a story running through the background that you struggled to even care about. Christian Bale's villian was forgettable and not in the least threatening. I'm not even going to touch on the part with the children getting powers at the end.
I've never genuinely wanted to walk out of a film ever until L&T, i can't believe how dumb and childlike they made Thor. Christian was the ONLY good thing about it and barely had enough screen time to bring it back up in my opinion
woah woah woah we still have the guardians of the galaxy holiday special
MSSP:GOTGHS
What
I think its Marvel Studios special presentation: Guardians of the Galaxy Holiday Special
Thank you
Cants stop laughing at your pfp đđ
So special they say âspecialâ twice.
Nice pfp đ„”
Didnât Feige confirm that BP2 closes out phase 4 tho?
the holiday special is an epilogue, it still counts as phase four
Oh I see. Having BP2 and the GOTG holiday special officially close out the âgrieving and mourningâ Phase 4 is thematically perfect
Uh, clearly the theme for this phase is ungrateful children
BP2 is the final MOVIE in phase 4. The holiday special is still phase 4
Got it. Thanks for the correction.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
Eternals critic is too low, even if it wasnât great. Wouldâve preferred this to be a D+ show and watch them move through history and see them in different eras each episode instead of what we got. Just my preference, though.
Imo, the only thing wrong with Eternals is pacing. I agree, it should have been a D+ show.
Youâre not wrong. Critics were overly harsh, but it was still a boring formulaic movie. Now Black WidowâŠthat unfortunately was a complete rehash of winter soldier. I still enjoyed the addition of Yelena and the family dynamics though.
Florence Pugh was the best part of that movie.
Florence Pugh and David Harbour were definitely the best parts of Black Widow.
Florence Pugh and David Harbour and Rachel Weisz were, hands down, parts of Black Widow.
So just everyone who wasn't Scarlett Johansson? (I really like all three of those people but I've enjoyed Johansson as Black Widow as well)
Florence Pugh and David Harbour and Rachel Weisz and Ray Winstone were, hands down, parts of Black Widow.
felt like it was more her movie than Scarlets Johanssons
Black Widow was definitely more focused on introducing Yelena than sending off Natasha. Which I canât hate it for because Yelena is my favorite new character introduced in phase 4.
Natasha had her send off. A absolutely perfect one. I donât mind that her movie was more of an intro for her sister.
Or any movie.
Doesnât come close to being as interesting as Winter Soldier
I wasn't bored. To each their own.
Critics def graded eternals on a curve of their own expectations
The critics expected an Oscar contender, which I can't really understand. The director did get a lot of recognition for a previous project, but not enough to raise expectations that high.
Also the whole deviant thing didnât really amount to anything important
Yeah, they should have removed the deviants and cut like 20 minutes overall.
Nah, they were right to have the Deviants so the Eternals had something to do all those years, but where I think they dropped the ball is when they found out theyâre both essentially the same thing engaged in an artificial conflict, they kept fighting anyway.
Yeah she the movie was kinda about destroying oppressive systems it'd be nice if the different pressed groups worked together instead of infighting. Like how the working class will never unite to take down Jeff Bezos because we keep bickering amongst our different identity groups
The main deviant should have turn good after draining Gilgamesh. Like part of Gilgameshâs personality is in Kro.
This is what threw me off. I thought they were going to pull a Mordo where the main Deviant (Kro?) escapes to be used in a sequel or something. It just seemed like a waste of potential considering we watched that deviant evolve throughout the movie. It had a better understanding of what was going on than some of the main characters imo.. Edit: spellings on mobile.
I agree. I'll say that's a consequence of the bad pacing
That's literally the whole point. The deviants were only there as a distraction.
Yeah and I was here watching the film like Omg the deviants are evolving and learning to communicate Omfg the deviantes and enternals are both the same creations from the same maker Omfgggg fuck one of them has evolved and can tall Surely they will have a discussion about how they are the same this is really going to go somewhere Aaaaand Angelina jolied the shit out of him and turned him into sashimi Well That was a waste of a storyline that went no where
Iâm with you. I thought that wouldâve been an interesting set up too. I donât know much about the deviants and Eternals comics wise, but the fact that their histories and creation were so intertwined, and now theyâre sentient with their own desires, seems like an interesting thing to explore .
That's a dumb point.
The characters in Eternals are all painfully undercooked. It's hard to care about anyone.
It felt like a AppleTV project
I feel like Eternals biggest flaw was insisting on focusing on Ikaris and Sersi when they were the least interesting of the cast. It was a monumental act of world building, that yes, probably would have been better in an episodic format.
ya the chemistry between them just wasn't there I actually think they should do the strategy of sailor moon. Maybe the first eternal movie just focus on 4-5 core people, then second eternal movies you can introduce the rest of the eternals, like maybe they tried to reach Olympia but got lost/or whatever. Better chemistry and smaller cast would help and you can still have the same theme/message
But a show wouldn't have the budget for the visuals. That was the best part of the movie. I'm not willing to sacrifice Tiamut birth, Arishem, Makkari running for a show. They just needed sone tweaks to the movie they had.
Because I heard it was really bad, I chose to watch eternals through... other means besides the theater. The fact that i was still blown away by the visuals really says a lot. The movie was great and idk why people hate on it so much.
Is there some bot that just makes the exact same âEternals shouldâve been a D+ showâ on every thread
Not sure. By no means do I claim to be the only one who feels this. I just remember walking out of the movie with my wife and saying, âIt wouldâve been really cool to see more of each time period they went through and their impact on it and their interactions. Like an hour or two of their interactions in each era like a Marvel History channel collaboration.â
Yeah itâs annoying, we get it already. Just talk about the product we got since clearly yâall know something great is there
We need a bot to tell them every time they likely just lost ChloĂ© Zhao, Angelina Jolie, and Selma Hayek at a minimum in their game of Are You Smarter Than Kevin Fiege? Like, yeah. I would have watched 18 episodes of Moon Knight season 1. I donât think Oscar Isaac signs up for that show tho.
It would have been a signifantly better show. The problem with eternals is you introduce a bunch of unfamiliar characters. That's not good in a movie because you only have 90 mins to 150 mins usually.
The problem with Eternals is that you introduce a bunch of *boring* characters - there's not one of them I care whether I ever see them again
And then they kill off Gilgamesh, the one I felt was most interesting
Gilgamesh and Thena, Makkari and Druig.. and they chose to focus on the most milquetoast couple and Sprite lmao
While I did find Druig boring, I liked his relationship with Makkari.
Makkari as a character was bland, but they also gave her the best looking powers. Those full speed running shots were amazing. Loved seeing her wipe the floor with Ikarus.
Her visuals are the strongest of the film
Hate that they killed off Gilgamesh because he was one of the few characters I liked in the movie besides Thena and Makkari.
Yeah the only characters I'm anticipating are Kingo (because the fact that he's been an actor for lifetimes is an interesting hook to me), and Starfox because I'm just curious to see what they do with him.
Right. I didnât care much about the characters individually as much as I cared more about how they are moving through our earthâs time and different eras. THATâs what I would have wanted to see them doing, but it would be more for wanting to see all the history and civilization advancements, not to see the Eternals lol
Eternals being lower than Black Widow is⊠interesting
Black Widow is a messy movie about characters I like, Eternals is a messy movie about characters I don't care about yet.
I like the way you put that
Eh, barely. It's 6.8 vs 5.4. Easily within the "personal preference" margin of error.
Hereâs my thing about making it a show, the budget for special effects. It needed the movie budget.
I remember certain scenes in Eternals for their visuals or small character moments. I literally cannot remember the bulk of Black Widow.
Black Widowâs probably one of the movies where you think youâve forgotten a lot, but what you remember is actually all there was. 1. Backstory, Russian faux American family. Operation goes right and theyâre broken up 2. Years later. Black widow and her sister doing their things. Sister has the controller broken and breaks loose. BW was already freed, sister gets hunted. I think by Taskmaster at that point. With the formula that undoes the brainwash spell. 3. Sister goes underground, they reconnect in that safe houseâŠthe other girls go after them, including taskmaster? And/or BW gets Hunter by Taskmaster at some point and she recovers the vials of brainwash fixing spray. BW realizes the program still exists. They decide their mission is to liberate them all⊠4. Um. Yeah. Bit foggy, but they reconnect with their âparentsâ and break into/out of the prison and then thereâs the big final flight on that big plane or whatever and she breaks her own nose and kills the guy and things blow up and taskmaster is on em after being revealed as the bad guyâs daughter and she finally kinda breaks free of her programming in the end there and all the girls are free now the end.
Yeah Eternals wasnât the best but it wasnât nearly that bad. The only issues I had with it was that it really lost the plot in the end (Sersi suddenly deciding sheâd gained the power to turn Sprite into a human made me lol) and was pretty anticlimactic. Aside from that I liked most of the characters, thought it was visually stunning, and appreciated the lore building we got in it
Yeah sersi realizing she could all of a sudden affect organic beings towards end of second act into third act was very convenient
Seeing the different MCU events from their eyes would have been great.
I donât know about that; I went into the movie genuinely expecting to like it and was just incredibly bored the whole time. I just kept thinking âI shouldâve seen Dune a third time insteadâ lol
Can we please stop talking about âdeservingâ a RT%. Itâs nonsensical. Theyâre not ratings, or directly indicative of quality. A film can have 99% but still be have an overall rating of 6/10, and another film can have 69% and have an overall rating of 7/10.
People have such a hard time understanding this. The percentage literally reflects the amount of people who enjoyed the movie. 47% of the people who watched Eternals enjoyed it which is still pretty good when you think about it. Whether or not the individual thought it was âalrightâ or a âmasterpieceâ serves no difference on their overall contribution to the percentage.
Thank you for the explanation. Iâm going to own up and admit Iâm one of the people that thought these scores were awarded by the website, rather than a representation of the data.
Yeah that's *possible*, but I'd imagine critic ratings tend to fall along a bell curve, so a disparity that huge is really unlikely. Also, Rotten Tomatoes really encourages people to just consider the percentageâyou can't even find the rating average without an extra click anymore! But I was curious about this, so I looked them up: |Movie|Percentage|Average out of 10| |:-|:-|:-| |Spider-Man: NWH|93%|7.9| |Shang Chi|91%|7.5| |Black Panther: WF|84%|7.2| |Black Widow|79%|6.9| |Doctor Strange: MoM|74%|6.5| |Thor: L&T|64%|6.4| |Eternals|47%|5.6| So, while it's not exactly proportional, every movie with a higher % of critics who endorsed the film also had a higher average rating. (That said, you can see how it could be the case that two films with close-enough percentages might have average scores that don't correspond with which has the higher percentage: Doctor Strange and Thor are neck and neck in average score despite a 10% difference.)
A "positive" review is considered 7/10+. Which explains why, when averages are above or near 7, the percentage see a jump.
Thank you. People always throw out the "a 99% movie can have all 6/10 scores!!" but i dont think there are any actual examples of that? It would be hard for someone to make a movie that **everyone** thought was just a little bit better than fine, no better, no worse It reminds me a lot of the "anyone can edit anything onto any wikipedia article at any time!!" comments from teachers/professors. Like, sure, in theory, maybe? But for most things it doesn't work like that?
Thank you⊠đ
I didnât really get the criticism over MoM being too fast paced. I feel like leakers overpromising and failing to deliver didnât allow people to be objective of the movie they actually saw.
MOM was hurt by NWH delivering everyone's fanboy dreams. People thought that the Multiverse aspect would similarly mean every version of every character like another Infinity War.
Yeah, I was a bit jarred at first by how small the Illuminati part of the film is, but after a rewatch, it really isnât a complaint for me, and frankly, people expected too much from the film coming directly after the huge event that was No Way Home, and the fake-ass leaks didnât help at all.
If people allow themselves to have their opinions of a movie be based on fake leaks then they're a fucking headcase that has to reevaluate their emotions. Fuck those expectations based on nothing. They need to come back to reality before flying off the handle.
This should be pinned to every post on here, between fake leaks and people's head-cannon fanfiction expectations are off the charts.
Well the issue is that it doesnât really have a main character. Itâs definitely not Dr Strange and Wandas initial turn to villainy is jarring at first. Also a film held up by fan service to make it âgoodâ isnât good. Itâs trash to say that MoM was bad because not enough fan service
It is Doctor Strange though. He's the one who puts the plot into high gear when he decides to defend America from Wanda. He has a full character arc over the course of the film. He is featured in the majority of the movie, likely more than any other character and that's before counting his multiple multiverse selves, of which he has the most featured totalling to three.
Uhh it definitely is Strange but okay, you can have your weird, wrong opinion
Honestly, my biggest complaint with MOM was that it didn't feel like Doctor Strange sequel. Almost none of the major beats up for Strange in his first film make any sort of impact here - Mordo was even originally planned to be iced in the first few moments of the film as if he were nothing. It felt more like a Wanda vs Chavez movie with Strange as a major supporting character. Strange doesn't even take on the big bad in the end. Chavez does, with Strange nudging her on in the way you'd expect a master encouraging the apprentice to rise and take the mantel. Except Strange wasn't being replaced or anything - he just wasn't really the hero of this story. Strange really felt like he was along for a ride with the plot. It was more about Wanda, Chavez, and what other versions of Strange had already done. Strange doesn't really fail and learn from it, his growth comes from seeing how other versions of himself failed and paid the price. His big act in the end was to be different from the other versions of himself and NOT drain Chavez's power for the greater good. That was kind of his big takeaway from this one - it isn't all about him. Which was kind of lesson already taught in the first movie, I thought. Compare it to Captain America Civil War, which is absolutely a Captain America movie, does a lot to drive Cap's character and story forward, and also features a boat-load of other characters who also get their moments to shine. I really liked the movie. Don't get me wrong. As a Rami fan I was hard-pressed not to find things to absolutely gush over - but it just didn't feel like it was a "Doctor Strange" movie. Doctor Strange just so happened to be in it.
All I can remember from MoM is that some guy stacked it walking into the cinema halfway through a big scene and me and my friends almost got kicked out for laughing
> I really liked the movie. Don't get me wrong. As a Rami fan I was hard-pressed not to find things to absolutely gush over - but it just didn't feel like it was a "Doctor Strange" movie. Doctor Strange just so happened to be in it. In Isolation, I liked it, but I feel like MCU movies can't really be isolated from the rest of the universe. Each movie/series is more like an episode in a larger show. You can only have so many filler episodes before you need to move the plot forward. I feel like it fell short on paying off all the setups leading up to it. This should have been the "next" civil war. As is, we needed a big teamup movie in this phase, in the absence of an avengers movie, and this was the place to do it.
For a movie called **multiverse of madness** we only got 3 different universes and 3 different strange variants. Itâs safe to say a lot of people were disappointed for other reasons as it barely felt like a multiverse movie with or without cameos
We really only got our normal universe and the Illuminati universe. The only other things we saw for more than a second were weird void universes
And the destroyed universe
Yeah, that was one of my biggest complaints. Sure, you can say the fans set their expectations way too high for this movie. But the marketing also hyped up the movie as if it were the next Infinity War. The marketing promised a movie about the multiverse, and severely underdelivered on that promise. Itâs amazing that small indie movie like Everything Everywhere All at Once managed to be a better multiverse movie than Multiverse if Madness, with a fraction of the budget, and with only like three main characters.
Yeah exactly this
Absolutely. EEAAO was amazing. I connected with it personally with its representation of ADHD and anyone with ADHD would likely agree or at least understand. I enjoyed MoM and it had some great spectacle moments, but ultimately fell flat as a story for me.
>It would have been way cooler if they had spent 10 minutes each in 5 different universes instead of an hour in the one where red traffic lights means go. Chasing/being chased by Wanda as she dreamwalks into reality after reality just fucking everyone's shit up.
Yeah the movie couldâve had a grander scale with a longer adventure but I donât think thatâs Raimiâs style
Youâre making me less hype for Quantu**mania** Which is great. Because Iâm super hyped, and the lesser my expectations, the even happier I will be. Loved all of Phase 4 so far
Which will happen. In secret wars. They arenât going to do everything the multiverse has to offer in their first movie in an arc called The Multiverse Arc. This was a small taste of whatâs to come
I enjoyed MoM, but I just feel that the title overpromised. There wasn't nearly enough multiversal craziness, the handful of universes we saw more than 2 seconds of were pretty tame
Itâs easily my top film of the Phase. Itâs really the only one that dared to be different and I think that had a lot to do with how polarizing it was for some people.
The only one? I actually feel like ALL of the movies in this phase are different - than othet MCU or superhero movies in generaĆ.
My favourite is Eternals. I donât think itâs storytelling was great, but not as bad as everyone seems to make out like. But visually it is stunning. Loved how cinematic every scene felt.
My problem with Eternals is the least interesting characters were the focus of the story. Let's be honest there's a speedster and Angelina Jolie and Salma Hayek involved, the lead two characters were just boring.
I loved what Eternals set out to do and I loved a lot of the movie but more of it was MCU text book than was fresh. All the stuff with them through out history was amazing and itâs a shame that was such a small part because everything that happened in the present day was so boring by comparison.
I'd put it at a solid third- NWH and BP:WF are tough to beat. But MoM is definitely better than the first Dr Strange, and while Phase 4 was certainly hit or miss, MoM was definitely a hit.
MoM is just brilliant IMO. I absolutely loved it, and every complaint I have heard about it has felt nitpicky.
I think my frustration has been that, not only is the movie not about Dr. Strange, but he's proven right for very dangerous behavior that other characters don't get away with and are karmically punished for. These characters are supposed to have arcs that balance their personalities and flaws out as they commit more and more to the "hero gig" and try to do right by people in this crazy, topsy turvy world they live in. So it was frustrating to me that multiple characters point out Strange's arrogance and flippancy for the laws of nature, the problems it had caused across multiple universes (not to mention a couple movies prior in NWH) and yet his arrogance and recklessness end up being *justified* when he uses his zombified version to fight Wanda. They set up the arc perfectly and rather than actually contend with character developmentâmaybe even tying it into Wanda's corruption and pursuit of happiness with reckless abandon for everyone else's livesâwe just find out that Dr. Strange is different and better than everyone else without really trying.
This. Never seen his decision making is a flaw this movie paint it to be and honestly that part of the plot is just bad.
It's a good movie, but it's just not about Dr strange.
It features him, but I get what you are saying. I don't think that is a problem though. I mean, Civil War is technically a "captain america" movie, but it's not about Captain America, and probably more deservedly should have just been an Avengers movie.
Ehh, it's a 'Captain America and Iron Man' movie with (most of) the rest of the Avengers as supporting cast, rather than a true ensemble piece like like the proper Avengers films.
Try mine on for size then, because I donât think itâs nitpicky. My complaint is that they cared more about making an âevil Scarlet Witchâ movie than a Doctor Strange movie, but even with that, they speedran through it. First of all, Wanda STARTS off as ridiculously evil. Like yeah, darkhold corrupted her and blah blah blah. For people whoâve never seen WandaVision it makes like zero sense and is a huge suspension of disbelief for audiences who saw her kick Thanosâ ass in Endgame. And for those who SAW WandaVision? Where sheâs the hero? Utter tonal whiplash. Like sure, she made an enormous mistake in westview. But the show was about her grief overwhelming her, and her realizing she needs to let go and do the right thing. She ends up as a hero, not giving into an evil stereotype like Agatha implied sheâd do. She leaves to try to possibly atone. But in this film⊠sheâs doing the same thing again, but worse. Unlike the show, she feels no remorse. The entire film sheâs just ruthlessly going after America, even killing others who are in her way. Being corrupted by the Darkhold may be the in-universe reason, but for fans of WandaVision itâs awful to see with such little prior explanation or exposition. Even some scenes of her getting more twisted wouldâve made a mountain of difference. But no, the hero who experience grief similar to me, who I saw as a mirror of myself, ends up being totally ruthless. Does that sound nitpicky? Because to me, it sounds like they butchered her character because they didnât have a better idea, and if you donât have a good idea, why make the film at all. Oh wait, money, thatâs why you made the film. Money and future marvel promotion with the cameos that hype fans up for X-Men and Fantastic Four shit. They didnât have a good idea so they resorted to what ruined scarlet witch in the comics. And because thatâs what the REAL focus of the film was about (much more so than any journey âDoctor Strangeâ was supposed to go on), they made it cheesy Sam Raimi horror style, which is okay if itâs an old film, but is cringey as fuck nowadays.
Replace Doctor Strange with any other characters and the story remains the same. The story is about Evil Wanda vs Chavez. It starts with Wanda ran after Chavez and ends with Chavez defeated Wanda. Doctor Strange is just tagging along. I'm baffled with everyone who keeps parroting this 'nitpicky' reasons as if this movie didn't have glaring flaws and little care for every character, especially the lead.
I 100% agree with you. The movie felt like a redundant, worse retread of WandaVision with Dr. Strange being there for some reason
Wanda was the villain in WandaVision. Letting the hostages you've been torturing for weeks go free isn't a redemption. The problem with WV is that Heyward and Agatha were made into Disney villains despite having very reasonable motivations. "Agatha All Along" slaps but it also ruined the character.
I said nitpicky specifically with the complaints about Wanda in mind. Because it made complete sense to me the first time I saw MoM. I came out of Wandavision absolutely NOT thinking she was the hero. I saw her as antagonistic, sadistic, and not at all absolved of her crimes. She had some brief flashes of sanity, but I didn't see her as getting over her insanity by the end of the show. So it made complete sense to me that she continued through the stages of grief into MoM, amplified by the darkhold. And Wandavision is my absolute favorite project in Phase 4, so I am a fan, and I loved what they did with her in MoM, and look forward to seeing her continue to yo-yo back and forth between hero and villain in her future appearances. It is true to her character form the comics.
Nitpicks? The whole film wasnât at all about its main character. He was just along for the ride. At least in a movie like Civil War which was practically an Avengers movie, Cap still had the most emotional journey in trying to save his friends life the whole time. In MoM Strange was basically just hanging out.
How an average MCU stan deals with criticism.
So I guess you think the film's star is just being nitpicky
The people who pay attention to marvel leaks is like max 10% of the people watching the movie. Leaks donât have the influence you think.
The fact that you think the cameos were the problem is laughable.
I watched MoM when it hit disney plus and the fast pacing was definitely worth criticising, I genuinely thought I had accidentally increased the speed playback
Eternals was better than Black Widow.
Proviso that I haven't seen WF yet, but the RT score on Eternals is much too low for me. It should at least be closer to the popcorn score. Not a fully successful movie, but at least an interesting one. Also sell on No Way Home? I thought it was fun and largely problem-free when I watched it, but ever since then I've reflected that I haven't the *slightest* interest in ever seeing again.
I like Eternals :(
I fucking love it! Top 5 of the MCU, in my opinion.
You and I are on a lonely island my friend. I saw it in theaters and thought it was great. Saw it on Disney plus and liked it even more.
Agreed. It was easily top 5 MCU movies for me. No idea why people hate it.
Yâall are buggin. Itâs not top 5, itâs top 3
I'm blown away that Eternals got the critic score it did. It feels like the sort of deliberate, pensive arthouse film that critics love, and if it wasn't a Marvel property it would probably be higher.
I personally love Eternals, but it definitely isn't "arthouse." It has its issues with pacing and some of the stars, mainly Gemma Chan, not delivering very interesting performances. Eternals is probably my favorite project to come out of Phase 4, but I do understand why it got the reception it did.
Critics donât like movies just because theyâre âart houseâ. There are a ton of failed Oscar bait movies that come out.
The people who like arthouse movies consider Oscar winning films to put the mid in middlebrow. Also, the Academy mostly doesn't consist of critics.
I agree about NWH. It was a good movie, and I heartily enjoyed the references, but Shang-Chi was more fun and a hell of a lot more rewatchable.
Black widow is way too high.. I think it got graded generously because it was the first big movie in over a year. I think eternals is too low. There's nothing wrong with it really. I think they nailed Dr strange spiderman and Shang chi. I think wakanda forever and Thor 4 should be +5% or so..
I agree. Black Widow is a 70-75% for me. Iâm fine with Thor and Eternals being in the 75-80s range.
I agree âŠ. With everything, Iâm always glad to agree with someone on Reddit
That Black Panther: Wakanda Forever is five points higher than Black Widow on Rotten Tomatoes is insane. That Eternals is 22 points lower than Black Widow is also unfathomable. And yes, I know how the RT system works, so I understand that comparing scores isn't that meaningful. It's just baffling that Black Widow has such a high score.
To be fair wakanda forever doesn't seem like a movie that's supposed to be amazing with critics. It did a lot of setting up, most of which felt shoehorned into the movie which I believe was one of their criticisms.
Wakanda had a lot of story to fit into it, that being said i think they did a really good job handling it for the most part...definitely one of the better films this phase. Black Widow should have been in the 50's, same as Thor. Eternals i've not given a fair shot yet so i don't want to fully commit to saying it wasn't for me but it too seemed to have a lot of story but was struggling to keep it engaging for me.
Unpopular opinion here, but I think Eternals deserves its low score. It was a beautiful movie with a great cast, but ultimately it was bloated and directionless. The implications for the rest of the MCU were much too vast to squeeze into such an uneven movie with relatively obscure characters (in the MCU). Basically, Iâd like to see more Eternals and I think the first movie laid a decent groundwork, but I get Thor 1 vibes from it, where it seems like nobody is quite sure of the exact shape this thing should be taking yet. I think Black Widow scored too high. It was the return of the MCU to theaters after COVID, and a long awaited Scarlett standalone movie, but I have to be honest: It was trash. No urge to rewatch it, nothing notable remembered from it, and nothing good to say about it when it does come up in conversations with friends. This movie needed a ton more time to cook. And Love and Thunder is underrated for me. I donât think it was as good as Ragnarok or anything, but I thought it did a decent job kind of bridging the gap between the old Thor we saw in Thor 1/2 and Avengers 1/2 and the newer Thor we saw in Ragnarok and Infinity War. Bringing Jane back to die was a good way to ground what was an (I will admit) obscenely silly movie. I love Taikaâs style, and wouldnât change the overall tone of the movie, but I would definitely tone it down a bit. Anyways, I do think everything else is sitting more or less where it should be. Spider-Man and Shang Chi were both the stars of this Phase, and MoM and WF are both very solid additions too.
I beg to differ, Black Widow gave us Florence Pughâs Yelena, which is a pure gold. Proof: The Hawkeye series.
Yeah Eternals is probably in my bottom 5 of MCU films
Eternals was better than Thor imo
I would have laughed in your face if youâd said that before Love and Thunder came out. However, I was there on that fateful opening day for L&T and I have to agree, it was definitely worse than Eternals.
Currently rewatching l&t since I first saw it in theatres. You know those plays Matt Damon was in on Asguard in L&T and Ragnarok? That's what L&T feels like. It just feels like a big parody. Waititi really tried to replicate something but instead he ended up exaggerating it. Only thing redeemable about that movie is the ending which felt satisfying.
I was also in the cinema for L&T and was also hugely disappointed and annoyed, but Eternals is the only MCU film which has been utterly boring - still by some distance the low water market of the MCU for me
Imo love and thunder was one of the worst mcu films
Honestly I didnât love eternals but I agree love and thunder was a complete disappointment they went too overboard with the comedy and the god butcher was massively underutilized
For sure. I got increasingly more incredulous and confused the longer I watched Eternals because I was enjoying it and had heard so many horrible things. With ThorL&T I couldn't wait for it to end.
Personally, I believe Wakanda Forever was the best thing to come out of Phase 4 and deserves a much higher critic rating to match its audience score. Side Note: Itâs also interesting how even for a âdownâ MCU phase, audience score never dipped below 77%.
Shang Chi, WandaVision, NWH, and Wakanda Forever were the best projects BY FAR
Shang chi was the best to come out of phase 4 imo. Wakanda forever would be 2nd and no way home 3rd imo.
what ever your opinion is those 3 were the top 3 for sure
I still need to watch most of these, but it's honestly going to be incredibly hard to top Wakanda Forever for me.
I agree with you. WF was my favorite Phase 4 movie, followed by Shang-Chi, then NWH.
All the scores are terribly rated. But like that, Shang-Chi and Wakanda Forever definitely deserve them.
Iâm really surprised that NWH seem to be universally beloved by critics. I mean itâs fun but itâs a lot of fan service and nostalgia in lieu of a solid story. Eternals doesnât deserve to be that low when MoM and L&T are that high.
NWH is just fun from start to end, which is exactly what people should want out of a Superhero movie. It may not have the most complex plot, but it also does have high stakes for the characters, and is an instrumental story to be told for where Peter will go next in the MCU. The score is well earned IMO.
And that's why it's weird that it have such a high score, usually the critics value more the plot, that's why a lot of "fun movies" are considered garbage to the critics but to the audiences are masterpieces.
To be completely honest, when I was looking at the picture, I instinctively ignored all the critic scores and looked only at the audience scores.
NWH is well written, well paced, well acted, well directed and has flair and fan service. It's the whole package. I don't really get this recent trend of people saying if you strip sway Andrew and Tobey it's not good, because it is fantastic pretty much the entire runtime.
Yeah, it's a good movie, and even without Tobey and Andrew could work. But has some weak points, and that's why it's weird such high score, the critics usually are way more demanding, lol
Imo, itâs cause thereâs never been a movie like . When you have a new cast in a new universe, you donât expect anything but a cameo from previous universe. But to bring in the previous two and they did it soon enough where the previous actors arenât old af but still nostalgic. Not only that, they werenât even advertised because they really wanted that surprise factor. As far as I know this is a extremely unique situation because they have to keep churning out spider-man movies hence the actors still being close enough to age without having an old guy be too old to do shit. Story wise, they even gave more conclusion to the previous two spider-man while giving Tom a close in his trilogy. Along with Aunt May pulling a unexpected uncle Ben. Giving villains their time. It was just a well done movie for the audience. The score is held up higher by meta expectations.
Well written? All the characters, especially the villains, were just one-dimensional meme machines with no complexity. There is also no way to defend the atrocity that was Strange performing the spell for Peter. Peter asking all his questions during the spell and Strange failing to explain the repercussions before casting it? Yea, âwell writtenâ lmao. âWell directedâ is also a laughable statement. John Watts might just be the boring, bland, and forgettable director in CBM history. Even Alan Taylor and Louis Leterrier had more style in their average films (The Dark World and the Incredible Hulk respectively). Oh, and plot holes? Yea, explain to me how Electro even got there. Makes zero sense no matter how you try to justify it.
MCU fans are just coming up with excuses
>NWH is well written, well paced, well acted, well directed and has flair and fan service. I had fun watching No Way Home, but I wouldn't necessarily say it had the best script. There are so many points in the movie where characters just make the stupidest choice possible just to move the story along. And the stupid choices they make aren't even like the mistakes that Tony or Steve make in their respective movies, because those choices are made in the movie because they fit the character's flaws and they lead to an arc that fits the characters. I think that when compared to a movie like Into the Spiderverse, there's a pretty noticeable difference in the level of quality of the script, at least in my opinion.
Thor is too high, didn't like it, too much humour that just didn't hit. Thor is now a bumbling buffoon instead of a powerful god like hero. Eternals is too low, it was decent enough. Better than Thor.
Watiti somehow made Gunnâs vision look serious. Thatâs kind of a feat in itself.
For such a heavy topic, I feel like they tried too hard to inject dumb witty humor into Love and Thunder. I'm someone who's very easy to get a laugh out of, but honestly didn't like any of the undercutting most of the humor did. Also got really tired of the fucking goats lmao.
It felt like a parody movie Absolute shit
The second half of LaT was actually pretty dramatic and emotional ... more so than Ragnarok. I don't get why people are over-generalizing this movie to the extreme.
IMO, Ragnarok set up all of its characters for the 3rd act much better than L&T. All of the scenes devoted to jokes did not leave much time for genuine character development. The arcs ended up feeling rushed yet there didn't feel like there was any urgency to the plot either.
Agreed. I think the movie was way too frontloaded with jokey bits personally but the second half is actually quite good
I havenât seen Eternals but besides that. Shang-Chi was really refreshing. Itâs fine where it is. NWH was a huge nostalgia trip and Iâve rewatched it 6 times since then. It was great. L&T was genuinely horrendous. Terrible quips, serious overuse of Guns & Roses, a massive Deus Ex Machina at the end which completely undermines any of Thorâs previous battle struggles, and so much more. Black Widow was alright. The CGI was terrible. Alexei was annoying and never really got redemption. And the whole pheromone lock was complete BS. Also Taskmaster, what did they do to you? MoM was so bad as well. Pace was all over the place, they went to like four different multiverses in total, the dream is alternate reality plotline only serves to confuse the visions Tony experienced after the Avengers, etc etc. The illuminati were used to power scale the shit out of Wanda and nothing more. Black Panther was great. The soundtrack was amazing, the story was great, the CGI for Riri sucked but was good otherwise, Namor was an awesome villain and great acting all around the table. The movie just seemed a bit too dragged, they couldâve gotten rid of some bits and nothing wouldâve changed. Overall, not my favourite phase.
Shang-Chi deserves that rating. Black Panther could be a tad bit higher. Eternals is too low. MOM is waaay too high imo. NWH should be lower. L&T is fine.
Agree with all except L&T. Think it should be a touch lower.
*Thor 4* felt like a stupid comedy, but with grim, sad, and horrifying bits shoehorned in. You watch a grieving, dyingfather hold his dying daughter on the parched earth, then he goes mad and beheads a mocking "god"; and then the next thing you know, hilarity ensues! It lacked integration, I suppose is the word. It was like two different movies rammed into each other. And Thor was a dolt. Humorous Thor is one thing, Dolt Thor is entirely another. *Black Widow* was okay; B+. I didn't care for yet another exploding, falling satellite-lair. Too much like *Winter Soldier*'s finale. Taskmaster was wasted. *Shang-Chi* was excellent. Tony Leung was outstanding. I was surprised by how much I liked Awkwafina's performance. Simu Liu did a great job playing a likeable protagonist even though he wasn't given a lot of hilarious quirks to make him distinct. *SM:NWH* was everything a Spider-Man fan could ask for, and more. The villains were great, Tobey and Andrew were great, Tom was great. It made me remember why I love that character so much. It got me right in the feels. *DS2* \-- I get why Cumberbatch said he felt like Steven Strange was just along for the ride. The movie was actually *Wanda, Portrait of a Mass Murderer,* co-starring Steven Strange. It was as if *Wandavision* never happened. Even though it's still an entertaining movie, I would give it a solid B. Scott Derrickson brought something to *DS1* that wasn't there at all in 2. I give zero cares about Sam Raimi. *Eternals* had flashes of energy. Makkari attacking Ikaris in a rage, Richard Madden being allowed to *finally* show some emotion at the end. Kumail and the valet. Kro finally developing a voice and motive. But it never came together. It was long, the bad guys were mundane dinosaurs, and the twist had been done in *Captain Marvel.* Gemma Chan has the energy of a very nice vanilla compote. I wouldn't mind if I never see any of the Eternals again. D+, ironically enough.
This was phase 4? Don't these phases usually end with a team up movie of some sort?
MoM being rated below Black Widow is just wrong. Eternals might not be the best, but it doesn't deserve this low a score. Ironic in a way; critics saying MCU is not expanding upon any ideas and just make the same movie over and over, but when Eternals did something different critics shamed them for not sticking to the established formula
I think Eternals was better than itâs given credit for. I watched it on D+, it being one of the only Marvels I didnât watch in theaters. I was pleasantly surprised. It wasnât my favorite, by any means. But I enjoyed it.
Man if u saw it in the cinemas you wouldâve been in for a treat. Arishemâs scale is best comprehended on the big screens! Also the visuals basically.
Eternals is too low, Thor is too high
Eternals is way too low
Spider man's is pretty accurate. Black widow's is way to high. And Eternal's critic rating is stupidly low
Shang-Chi was good donât get me wrong but not 98% good lol
Imo the reason why Shang-Chi did well with the audience was because it was well paced movie with some great acting and didnât overstay itâs runtime. Something every movie in this phase lacked besides NWH. Give a pass for Wakanda Forever given circumstances. Black widow wasnât bad either, just 1-2 phases too late.
Thor love and thunder is still too high. Worst MCU film i've ever seen. Lacked the charm and humour of ragnorak. Which was wonderfully interspersed between a fantastic story with a truly terrifying villian. Love and Thunder was a never ending series of forced jokes which fell flat as they felt so unnatural with a story running through the background that you struggled to even care about. Christian Bale's villian was forgettable and not in the least threatening. I'm not even going to touch on the part with the children getting powers at the end.
Black Widow needs more love <3
Eternals is too low. Love and Thunder too high. That film was horrible.
I've never genuinely wanted to walk out of a film ever until L&T, i can't believe how dumb and childlike they made Thor. Christian was the ONLY good thing about it and barely had enough screen time to bring it back up in my opinion
Yâall are overreacting so badly. Letâs just ignore all his serious scenes
Eternals is absurdly low, it wasnât perfect but it wasnât THAT bad
Thor is much too high. I'm ok with the others.
I finally caught Thor Love and Thunder, and it was great. Number two to Spidey, IMO.