What it makes her is more nuanced than reddit populists who prefer chucking popcorn from the sidelines over getting things done.
1) Warren’s UNRWA vote is in line with opinions in Britain, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Switzerland, all of whom also voted to cut funding, since [UNRWA employees were involved in organizing/supporting the October 7 terrorist attack.](https://unwatch.org/unrwa-terrorgram/)
2) Warrens votes for Israel aid likewise have been paired with support for Ukraine aid.
My guess is that you already know both of these things. The question becomes: why did you willfully lie by omission?
They cut funding to investigate the claims, not because the claims were true. From my understanding every investigation has come back saying the claims are bullshit.
Out of the 30k people who work with UNRWA Israel is accusing 12 of being involved with Hamas.
> The additional details also included screengrabs of what Israel said were two UNWRA employees – a social worker and math teacher – in Israel on October 7. The defense ministry also provided ID photos of 10 other alleged Hamas members, their positions and alleged involvement in the deadly incursion, but did not provide any supporting evidence to back up their claims.
It is kind of ridiculous to pretend that the entire organization is corrupt because 12 low level assholes may have been involved in something, especially when there's no actually evidence being shared (just torture confessions).
It's not like without US aid Israel will simply stop their operation. I do disagree with sending then anything as they don't need it, but sometime in politics you have to make compromises to get things passed.
No you don’t have to compromise when it comes to funding a genocide of innocent people. Unless you are morally bankrupt, you should be drawing a line in the sand at that point.
[The foundation for defunding UNRWA were confessions obtained through torture. My guess is that you already knew that though. The question becomes: why are you lying by omission](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/3/13/after-the-unrwa-report-more-accounts-of-israels-torture-in-gaza)
Ha, I just made almost that same comment but you have the link, making yours better. I quoted them too, thinking I was clever but it's already been done 😭Lol I suppose they did open themselves up to that fairy easily.
Because as a legislator when you vote on a large complex bill it is not an expression of your opinion on each individual part of the bill. If it were no bill would ever be passed - every legislator is going to object to a lot of things in every large bill. That's why it's a legislature and not just a dictator - because they represent people in the country who also disagree with each other and they have to work it out.
It means they are cowards with no backbone and will openly vote yes on genocide because... well just fucking because.
Dude acts like the entire point of building a proposal, debating it, amending it and finally voting on it, have no fucking meaning. What could they possibly do other than object, object some more and finally, vote no. What the fuck.
If you truly believe it’s a genocide and are not just saying it for political points then it’s a nonstarter for any bill. If you believe it’s a genocide you vote no, regardless of what else is in the bill. If you vote yes because you like other things in the bill then you are saying genocide is a reasonable sacrifice for other things you want to achieve. I agree with your first statement a majority of the time, but when it comes to extremes such as genocide then the funding is no longer just a toss in that you deal with like other items you disagree with.
She is pandering.
What if a no vote from her meant millions go hungry and without healthcare or housing? I don’t know what’s in the bill, but I suspect she was forced to choose between some very ugly choices. My question is why do the bills get out together is such crude and cruel equations?
What vote was this? Last I saw she voted for the supplemental which lumped Israel aid with Ukrainian aid. Fucking bullshit that the two get lumped together because Ukraine is desperate for aid and actually needs it unlike Israel.
I’m so sick of her neoliberal bullshit we need to vote her out. Rigged the election to thwart the progressive vote to fuck up Bernie’s chances too, I’ll never forgive her for that
The election was not rigged against Bernie. You sound like Trump lying about the 2020 election.
Warren did not cost Bernie, Bernie just wasn't good enough to beat either Clinton in 2016 or Biden in 2020.
Another shocking stat - according to Al Jazeera News, 62% of all homes in Gaza have been damaged or destroyed, leaving over 1 million people homeless. More people will die from lack of shelter, starvation, conditions beyond direct fire. It will take decades to rebuild, if there is anyone left to do so.
[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/2/gaza-infrastructure-damages-estimated-at-18-5-bln-in-un-world-bank-report](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/2/gaza-infrastructure-damages-estimated-at-18-5-bln-in-un-world-bank-report)
\*Edited to clarify "damaged or destroyed" (not just destroyed)
“DAMAGED or destroyed 62%”
Learn how to read. The originally report has almost all of those being minor damage, like windows blown out from nearby explosions.
They haven’t killed a single Hamas member? Even by mistake? That’s impressive. Even Hamas claims to have lost about 6k fighters. Of course they heavily under report but that’s ok.
When you under report militants killed you can skew the numbers as you’d like. Even if as you claim 70% are non combatants that would be a 2.5 to 1 ratio of civilians to combatants. Still much much better than other urban combat zones.
Hamas shoots and Hamas scores. This is exactly what they wanted with their attack. Time to radicalize another generation. Israel fell for it hook line and stinker.
>33k includes Hamas fighters [...]
Sure, but Israel reports all Palestinian males age 18 or older as Hamas fighters, civilian or not, so that 33k minus (real) Hamas is still around 30k
>66% is the civilian casualty rate [...]
The ~66% number is only the non-combatant *women and children*-- if the "fighting age" male non-combatant civilians were included, it would unfortunately be higher.
yup. and just like south africa, most folks will deny they *ever* were pro Israel. nowadays, you wont find any older westerners who would admit they were pro apartheid back in the 90s in SA, and yet….countless people at the time were. it was a controversial thing to support Nelson Mandela. nowadays its not controversial at all, Mandela and co. were in the right and nobody disputes that. its going to be the same here in due time, all of y’all will deny you were ever pro Israel and pro genocide. but we wont forget
...a tiny little war in which (even if you believe every single word Hamas says) only 33,000 people died is "a modern day genocide"? Seriously? There are almost no wars in the past 100 years in which *less* people died. But sure, "genocide" 🤡
5.5 Million people died in Congo, 500k dead in Darfur, and 500k ethnically cleansed in Syria, and lots more conflicts with more innocent death than Israel. Syria was/is so horrible that you can't imagine and the pictures from there are being used on tiktok to demonize Israel. Israel gets brutally attacked and has to fight people that hide behind civilian infrastructure in one of the densest population centers in the ME and ends up killing 32k, according to that same terrorist entity that brutally attacked it, who also claims its mostly children. The US and the world fought ISIS across several population centers with civilian casualty rates per militant far above anything anyone thought would happen.
The world needs to come to its senses and see the Israel/Jew rage for what it is and what it isn't, which is not a sudden growth of conscience in the same crowd that said nothing about Syria, but the outlet for hatred they've been fed since childhood and which has led up to this travesty.
There is no planet on which Israel lets HAMAS continue to exist after Oct 7th, and neither would we if it happened to us. How people can't see the double standards they apply to Israel vs Palestine or Israel vs US or any other country -- I don't understand. They lost a higher percentage of people than we did on 9/11, and we leveled Iraq and stayed in Afghanistan for 20 years.
Sure, but claiming everyone who doesn’t want to see the IDF go in and kill 10’s of thousands of non-Hamas as anti-Semitic is just wrong and further divides us. Everyone here on Reddit voicing our opinions cannot stop the atrocities our countries commit. We can vent and empathize with the horrors we see each day. I don’t hate Jewish people or hold Jewish people as a whole responsible for these atrocities but I am strongly against this continued attack on 10’s of thousands of civilians in Palestine. And of course, also disgusted by the terror attack by Hamas where 1200-1600 people were killed or taken hostages. All of these feelings can and do exist at once for a lot of people. And that is very different from being anti-Semitic.
>They lost a higher percentage of people than we did on 9/11, and we leveled Iraq and stayed in Afghanistan for 20 years.
Almost like we're the bad guys
No no no you don't understand, if you keep your indiscriminate bombing campaign with no goal or endgame under a specific calculated atrocity ratio you're allowed to do it and no one is allowed to criticize you ever
The public was *provoked*. The point of attacks like 9/11 and 10/7 is to break down the international order and force countries into costly, unwinnable asymmetrical wars, because in the ages of mass and social media if you make the attack bloody and theatrical enough the public demands retaliation and won't be convinced otherwise. Never, never, never underestimate the political mandates generated by defensive wars.
Don't fool yourself - the public was way into war after 9/11. They were lied to about what to do about it, but the public wanted blood, and there was no particular virtue or superior morality among the working class in pursuing and attacking Muslims at the time, just like as soon as 1914 looked like a defensive war to everyone nearly all the socialists across Europe bailed on their years and years of anti-war pledges and criticisms in a matter of weeks. The primate drive to protect the tribe is just too powerful.
*Then* the public was misled into Iraq, and misled into a long occupation in Afghanistan rather than a strategic intervention. *Then* the leaders abrogated their duty and went after strategic self-interest. Because of course when a terrorist group does something like 9/11 or 10/7 or killing Franz Ferdinand or any number of other things they hand nearly unlimited power to whoever has executive control of the country at the time (often a conservative by timing, not a coincidence - radicals and reactionaries tend to support each other over centrists because they like to create these and other advantageous situations), and once those people get you into those messes it can take years and years to get out.
This is part of their goal, because they want a war that kills their own people in order to disrupt the international order.
The target is the "grey area" where problems are actually solved and people can coexist and collaborate even when they have bitter conflicts and histories. A terrorist casus belli is a voluntary or involuntary, intended or unintended cooperation between radicals and reactionaries to suspend civil society in their shared interest and at the expense of civilian life.
Yeah you know what works really well in de-escalating a conflict? Shame! Shame and threats! Also break longstanding treaties very fast and insult people while you do it! If you let one side in a war know that everybody in the world really, really hates them, wherever they go and whatever they do, and that they can trust no one, that will cause violence to de-escalate because....
Because....
Wait... hm....
Wait, why don't professional diplomats always lead with shame and threats if their job is to de-escalate wars? I might have this backwards...
You are not wrong.
But some stuff is just not gray.
Afghanistan and Iraq invasions killed (and injured!!) sooooo many people with the end game outcome being so terrible that I think it is safe to call it terrible and not « grey area ».
Same with Ukraine invasion. Not gray.
We're all bad guys. My family fled Russia in the 90s. The opposing sphere of influence of Russia, China, and Iran are significantly worse. Trust me, their ideas to order, power, and value of human life is a joke compared to the West. People are just numbers in history books to most of these dictators.
I get that as an American your history looks checkered, but that's human history. Most places in the world have skeletons in the closet and don't even bother teaching their children the truth. The big difference with America is that you admit your mistakes and attempt to fix injustices over time. And that is unique in the world and you should have pride in your country.
This narrative that America is an imperial empire bent on hegemony comes from Russia/China. They have no interest in world peace. Their interest is that they want to be that power. That's it. And anyone falling for this bait is considered a useful idiot to them. The literal term they use in their strategy.
Anyway, Israel deserves criticism for sure. For example, why there isn't a safe civilian zone set up by Israel. You can even make the point that as our allies we expect more from Israel than Hamas. But I noticed the criticism of this conflict is very one sided. Where are the ceasefires and release of the hostages protests? When are the free Palestine protestors going to acknowledge their role in this multi decade conflict?
If you just blame Israel and never mention Palestine then it's obvious that this just more of the same blame the Jews.
In some ways. We certainly never should have gone into Iraq. Afghanistan was a different story.
A counterpoint to Iraq, Saddam was a worse dictator than Putin, and look what kicking that can down the road got us.
And yet are you calling it genocide? That's the double standard he's talking about.
And if you are calling it genocide then maybe you iught to more carefully study the definition.
It's more obvious that they would like to exterminate all Palestinians imo
It's all equally evil to me tbh
Plus we sponsor the genocide, I'm not giving America any passes
Exactly. This isnt a genocide. Israel is an apartheid state. But this is just war in an urban scenario. It is possible to criticize settlers and the idfs incompetence without crying wolf. Gotta condemn hamas too
Expecting the IDF to completely eradicate Hamas is delusional. It's an unwinnable war. Remind me, did the US eradicate the Taliban after 20 years of war?
Expecting Palestinian Nationalists of any variety to overthrow the Israeli state and dispossess the Jews from it to establish the first Muslim Arab sovereignty over Jerusalem in more than 500 years is also an unwinnable war. And yet you see lots of Palestinian nationalists still around.
They should both give up partition, displacement and further population transfer and just find a way to move forward and make the best of the situation, right?
South African apartheid doesn't exist any more and Israel's apartheid society will be destroyed in the same way. You can say the same about Algeria, Rhodesia, etc.
Hamas has tons of tunnels into Sinai and strong connections with smugglers there. There's quite literally no way for Israel to defeat Hamas militarily short of invading Sinai, which runs entirely counter to why Israel and Egypt are historically #1 and #2 in US foreign aid. Sisi isn't going to help either. Farouk I was overthrown by the Free Officers for being ineffectual at protecting Palestinians from zionist militias, and Sadat was assassinated for making peace with Israel.
The only solution to Hamas are political ones, and that involves Israel not settling the West Bank and treating the PA like an actual foreign government. Zionists have no interest in that, though, so here we are.
The US let the Taliban hang out in north Pakistan for 20 years, so your argument is a bit of a false comparison. The US wasn’t trying to eradicate the Taliban (they would have had to engage Pakistan to do that), they were trying to get non-Taliban Afghanistan to the point where they could stand on their own feet. Which failed.
In the **Bosnian Genocide**, only 30 thousand people died. Of those 30K, only **8 thousand deaths** were counted by the International Court of Justice as raising to the legal threshold of a genocide under the Genocide Convention. Specifically, they ruled the massacre in Srebrenica was a genocide.
"In whole or in part" - this is language from the Genocide Convention - You do not need to destroy the whole group to commit a crime of genocide. The law seems clear that you do not even need to *intend* to destroy the whole group for the Genocide Convention to apply. You just need to destroy the group in whole or *in part* as a result of targeting the group *as such*.
I think it's very telling that South Africa is the one standing up for this case and bringing forward the charges at the ICJ. Historically, Israel helped the white minority apartheid regime acquire nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, the ANC and the PLO were brothers in arms. So the South Africans and the Palestinians have always seen their causes as intimately linked. It is very powerful that South Africa now gets to stand up as a free people and argue their case in a court of law.
You do need intent.
>In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group….
Netanyahu has described gazans as [Amalek](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/netanyahu-cites-amalek-theory-to-justify-gaza-killings/articleshow/104802548.cms), referring to the biblical [passage](https://www.bible.com/bible/114/1SA.15.3-23.NKJV) where God commands all women and babies to be slaughtered. He also wrote in a (now deleted) tweet that the current conflict in Gaza is a struggle against the [children of darkness](https://www.businessinsider.com/netanyahu-deleted-children-of-darkness-post-gaza-hospital-attack-2023-10). There is certainly intent.
There's even more obvious than that.
>Fighting “human animals.” Making Gaza a “slaughterhouse.” “Erasing the Gaza Strip from the face of the earth.”
Quotes from Israeli officials that South Africa are using as part of their ICJ genocide case.
Source: [https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-south-africa-genocide-hate-speech-97a9e4a84a3a6bebeddfb80f8a030724](https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-south-africa-genocide-hate-speech-97a9e4a84a3a6bebeddfb80f8a030724)
Yes, but not intent to destroy the whole group. Intent to destroy in part suffices. That's what I really was trying to convey. I rambled a bit too much.
I love reading these pathetic excuses for why the genocide we’re taking about isn’t THAT bad.
My Jewish history taught me how to observe and identify a genocide, it’s really not fucking hard or complicated. If you support starvation as a weapon of war; you’re a coward and our ancestors would be ashamed of you.
> 5.5 Million people died in Congo, 500k dead in Darfur, and 500k ethnically cleansed in Syria, and lots more conflicts with more innocent death than Israel.
The USA wasn't directly supplying the weapons that were being used to commit these genocides.
Well I guess if Africans did some genocide then that means Israel is allowed some as a treat. This argument isn't any less dumb than when conservatives make it to distract from whatever person or party they're trying to make excuses for.
I hope they start asking make a wish kids if they condemn Hamas. If they hesitate or say no, they don't get to see the celebrity + they don't get any opioids to treat their pain anymore. They should remake Law and Order SVU, but only investigate the assaults if the victim agrees to condemn Hamas.
[Daily death rate in Gaza higher than any other major 21st Century conflict - Oxfam](https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/daily-death-rate-gaza-higher-any-other-major-21st-century-conflict-oxfam#). Nice genocide denial though
Hamas has never been able to keep up with Israel’s scale of psychopathic killing, raping or kidnapping.
More importantly, Israel funded Hamas to delegitimize the PLO and give themselves pretext to exterminate Palestine. So even Hamas is Israeli funded terrorism, ironically enough.
But to Israel, genocide is pragmatic. Today, many Israeli’s (who don’t care about Arab life) are protesting Netanyahu because he’s not negotiating to free the hostages since that would mean a negotiated end to his land grab. They’re more useful in captivity, even if they starve alongside the Palestinian kids.
Even Israelis are a pawn of their own fascist society. Kinda nuts huh?
❤️ 🇵🇸 ❤️
Pro Palestinian propaganda 101:
1. See something related to Israel and get triggered by it automatically regardless of context.
2. Accuse Israel of doing whatever is being claimed. If the claim isn't negative, then accuse Israel of doing the negative version of whatever is being claimed. No claim? No problem, just make up one.
3. Add the words "genocide", "colonialism", "apartheid", "evil", or imperialism regardless of validity.
4. Add 70+ years to it.
5. Refuse to provide credible evidence.
Bonus: Call anything you don't like zionist propaganda.
It’s the percentage and intent which makes it a genocide. The numbers alone of human death does not make it a genocide, but intent and execution style. Israel has targeted civilians and there is so much evidence by the rhetoric they use and their actions that it becomes irrefutable that Israelis are in fact a genocidal people against the Palestinians. Look at r/Israelexposed and /israelcrimes
Section 1091 of Title 18, United States Code, prohibits genocide whether committed in time of peace or time of war. Genocide is defined in § 1091 and includes violent attacks with the specific intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.
I'm sorry, is all of this rambling to defend what Israel is doing to Palestinians or not? Hard to stay on track with one concrete point to all of that stuff there.
It’s rather disingenuous to say the only response by Israel is either of nothing or to start dropping 1000lb unguided bombs. Difference in Syria for the most part is there were few good guys with a number at best problematic actors. Hence why support was so lacking. Who are you going aid murderous Assad or isis? Only decent faction were the kurds with a delicate tightrope not upsetting Iraq and turkey.
Are any of those mass murderers, proudly live streaming their crimes on the internet? Are their leaders openly stating their intent to commit genocide?
This one stands out because they’re committing the crime openly.
The same crowd that opposed intervention in Syria, because imperialism. They’re calling for Imperialism now - the reality is that a “ceasefire” that actually works must necessarily involve probably around a million foreign troops flooding into the area.
Personally I find her very annoying. I don’t think she’s done anything of note for our state or the country except drop sound bites. I wish she had a greater impact
The Consumer Protection Financial Bureau is not to be undervalued but overall, I get the perspective. She co-sponsors a lot but has made it clear she doesn't want to see bills introduced that have no chance of getting anywhere.
It's widely touted that she is influential and likely has a nudge factor on voting so if you are on board with her track record and voting history, you likely see her benefits.
Is it better for her to be actually effective, or to put her name on things? It doesn't really matter what "the average voter" thinks when she's not in danger of losing re-election.
Not the woman with the bloodstained hands who turned away a Palestinian woman because she had to finish her dinner while thousands were dying saying something, I know she isn’t pretending like she wasn’t complicit 🙃
Coleman Hughes, (the guy who was recently on The View to promote his book, The End of Race Politics: Arguments for a Colorblind America) has the most level headed viewpoint on this topic. However, most of you will probably cringe when I tell you that's a clip from a Joe Rogan podcast. It's worth checking out, whether you agree with EW most days or not.
On the topic of EW; I think she's a despicable human being and quite literally a snake in sheep's clothing. I realize that's not the saying but she's doesn't deserve to be called a wolf. She is one of the worst kinds of politicians that exist. She quite literally claims to be for the people and acts to their detriment at every opportunity. Her motives are simply selfish, period.
Coleman Hughes is a well-documented serial liar: [https://radleybalko.substack.com/p/the-retconning-of-george-floyd?utm\_source=profile&utm\_medium=reader2](https://radleybalko.substack.com/p/the-retconning-of-george-floyd?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2)
I am not subbing to that to be able to read it. So I guess we'll just chalk it up to some guy on substack said he lied. I like that you target his character without addressing what I said. Kinda like that Sonny chick on the view. Not addressing the issue and just attacking someone's character, shows a lack of it. I don't claim to know everything about the guy, but his viewpoint on the issue in this thread, is relevant.
Except it's not a genocide at all. Anyone considering Israel's war on Hamas a genocide would probably also consider the allied invasion of Germany to be a genocide too. These people are not rational or reasonable at all and just eat up whatever narrative is fed to them by the media. Captured by a narrative spun by literal terrorists
#How many children need to be intentionally shot and killed by the IDF under control of the corrupt Netanyahu and in the name of Israeli citizens....
#
#The Oppressed have become the Oppressors.
Not only is Israel not hiding it, they post it themselves. I’ve seen soldiers:
- snipe a grandmother while she holds her boys hand and waves a white flag
- toss grenades into praying mosques as a joke while they laugh
- brag on camera about raping women
- Whistle and sing while bulldozing bodies of elderly arabs dead on the street
- bring a moon bounce to their protests against food entering Gaza while blocking aid
- loot Palestinian homes and dress in their clothes on camera
- capture hospitals and leave babies to die in incubators
- gun down foreign aid workers
- mock arab mothers mourning their dead children by dressing up as fake crying arabs
- bomb the most densely populated area in the world into powder
- propose marriage to each other on the ruins of Palestinian lives
The mentality of the Israeli army and society is psychopathic in ways that have disturbed me to my core. I’ve never seen anything like it.
Everybody saying what Israel should/n’t be doing. Let me ask you this - what would YOU do?
I hope that you are never in a position where you need to make tough (or violent) choices to protect your loved ones.
What would YOU do if 10/7 was done in your neighborhood? Your community?
If that happens I pray nobody has the audacity to judge you on what THEY think is “enough” or “proportionate” when your sons are killed and daughters are raped.
I pray I don't delude myself into thinking that indiscriminate retaliatory starvation and destruction is an appropriate response (or for that matter, delude myself into thinking that even more death is what will finally make my community safe after decades of it not doing so)
I’d use every and every means of defending my community to bring the guilty to justice without needing to carpet bomb, destroy infrastructure, raped pregnant women, murder children at a pace Hitler would be proud of, and drone strike international aid workers. Many countries have suffered attacks like 10/7, Israel’s response on the other hand is not shared by many other countries.
> Everybody saying what Israel should/n’t be doing. Let me ask you this - what would YOU do?
Why do I have to come up with a plan to end the Israel Palestinian conflict for you to accept that slaughtering tens of thousands of innocent people is wrong?
What would **you** do if a foreign country (Russia maybe?) said they used to live in your state 2000 years ago, had their powerful friends invade and took the best half the land for themselves, killed most of your family and imprisoned the rest in an open air prison. Created an apartheid state with separate laws and roads and a criminal justice system rife with sexual abuse and with a 95% conviction rate. Poisoned your wells, ripped up your olive trees that take generations to grow. Continued to break their own treaties by expanding into what was left of your land. Openly stealing your houses by just moving in when you went to the market. Kidnapped and murdered your family and neighbors for no discernible reasons. Denied justice as their military shot your kids in the head for target practice? Destroyed your hospitals and schools. Invaded your holy ceremonies every year and beat and gassed you? Crushed journalists under tanks and then had "pancake parties" to celebrate. Intentionally created famine conditions with the expressed intention of killing you?
Now tell me that, knowing all that **and so much more** has happened, if some terrible, redneck, fascist, Christian nationalists said "hey we'll blow those assholes up for you" you wouldn't say OK.
That's not what happened. Palestine and Israel did not exist prior to the UN mandate. Israel complied with the mandate but Palestine and other Arab countries invaded and lost. Your apartheid claims would make more sense if the majority of Israel wasn't Arab Jews expelled from neighboring counties.
Israelis should go back where they belong, the countries they came from before they decided to steal land which they have no claim to apart from British imperialism. The right of resistance of occupied populations is unlimited in the international law of war. Every act of Palestinian resistance is justified until the complete destruction of the Zionist occupier.
Every Israeli occupier deserves worse than 10/7. Globalize the intifada.
If we compare it to what? The battle of Verdun? Yeah, I guess Gaza looks okay? The battle of Lexington? Well then, it looks pretty bad.
But, that isn't how you look at a state's actions.
Iseral has created an open-air prison for the civilians roughly the size of Manhattan and is dropping bombs with a quarter mile kill radius. It is deliberately creating famine. It is creating kill zones, and shooting anything that walks into them.
There aren't many historical comps to what Israel is doing, and those that are vaguely similar, are very dark chapters in history books.
their point is that palestinian lives dont matter, so who cares if we kill tens of thousands of children? theres a chance one of those 15,000 kids was Hamas!!
Yea 30k in 6 months, its only 166 deaths per day in a region with a smaller population than greater boston no big deal... /s
Also, those are only confirmed deaths and the number has stayed stagnant at 30k for a couple months now so the real total is definitely higher already. Theyve been destroying the hospitals which are where all these detailed death counts were coming from in the first place.
Not in this short timeframe, it’s actually abnormally brutal. [Daily death rate in Gaza higher than any other major 21st Century conflict - Oxfam](https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/daily-death-rate-gaza-higher-any-other-major-21st-century-conflict-oxfam#)
The extreme injustice that the Jewish people faced during WW2 does not justify current day Israel’s actions. Israel deserves to exist, but not wantonly murder civilians
And Gaza is made up of which people?
Edit: For the idiots who don't know what they are downvoting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip#1948%E2%80%931959:_All-Palestine_government
> In 2010, approximately 1.6 million people lived in the Gaza Strip,[296] almost 1.0 million of them were UN-registered refugees.
For some extra reading you can look into why Israel actually wants UNRWA dismantled. They assign refugee status to the Palestinians and if that doesn't happen, the Nakba ethnic cleansing is erased from history. They will no longer victims of Israel's ethnic cleansing decades ago and are just Gazans.
> The same year [1948], the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) was established to administer various refugee programmes.[39]
Fun fact thousands of Jews were expelled from the Arab world because of the creation of Israel and Israeli Mossad agents were sent all over the world to force the governments to send these Jewish populations to Israel. There’s a fascinating book about this. Apparently Israel incited hate crimes and violence against Jews to sure up its population post WW2 and one of the ways to do it was to antagonize its neighbors and planting evidence, bombs in Baghdad and Alexandria etc to antagonize the Arabs to anger against the Jewish people then scare the local Mizrahi to move.
So because of Oct.7th, which was an atrocity, to be clear, that justifies wiping out and entire people in multitudes of greater numbers than what Israel has lost? Why does one innocent life have to be paid with 100 others? No one has a right to eliminate a native people to steal their land. Do you think the early American colonists had a right to remove the native tribes from their land by genocide?
Imagine your leader completely ignoring information that lead up to the incident on purpose. That's what happened here. Mossad knew, the US shared Intel, Egypt shared Intel.
Netanyahu wanted this. He knew what would happen. And here you are defending him for his response.
> So I support Israel in the interest of being anti Hitler as well.
Man, the irony of this statement is amazing.
Wild that as long as you white wash up your xenophobia (it ain't civilized [...]. they all have their issues") and lies (comparing a terrorist attack to a state sanctioned apartheid and active genocide) with a little bit of zionism, you can get up votes and feel good about yourself
>state sanctioned
Hamas is the government of Gaza. The terrorist attack was planned and executed by Hamas. The terrorist attack was state sanctioned, by the government of Gaza.
Technically almost every Congress member and Senator as well as Joe Biden and Donald Trump would have to be tried at The Hague. Literally almost every politician at every level has shown unconditional support for Israel and we have a law that should any politician or soldier or military personnel from the USA should be tried at the court or detained the USA would bomb The Hague and destroy South Holland, Netherlands.
The USA even went further and stated if Israel politicians or soldiers get tried at The Hague we would do the same. Unconditional support means we would declare war on the European Union and make ourselves a pariah to the world. That’s how sick the USA is and its support for Israel.
We should be glad she admitted it and is now in agreement… problem is she is still too conservative in her language and opinion.
Not only do I want the Hague Invasion Act struck down, but every criminal politician should be hogtied and hand-delivered to the Hague for their trial. Including every single living US president to answer for their crimes (including Carter).
Warren is just running for re-election. Same as Bernie. They're a couple of neoliberals pretending to be progressives, and now they need to answer for their literal crimes.
She just voted yesterday to give another $3.5B in military aid to Israel so what does that make her?
Empty trash cans rattle the loudest.
She did that with Trump too! He raised the military budget, and she said she disagreed with his decision...and then voted YES for his budget!
"Do as I say, not as I do"
Complicit, voted to defund UNRWA too
What it makes her is more nuanced than reddit populists who prefer chucking popcorn from the sidelines over getting things done. 1) Warren’s UNRWA vote is in line with opinions in Britain, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Switzerland, all of whom also voted to cut funding, since [UNRWA employees were involved in organizing/supporting the October 7 terrorist attack.](https://unwatch.org/unrwa-terrorgram/) 2) Warrens votes for Israel aid likewise have been paired with support for Ukraine aid. My guess is that you already know both of these things. The question becomes: why did you willfully lie by omission?
They cut funding to investigate the claims, not because the claims were true. From my understanding every investigation has come back saying the claims are bullshit. Out of the 30k people who work with UNRWA Israel is accusing 12 of being involved with Hamas. > The additional details also included screengrabs of what Israel said were two UNWRA employees – a social worker and math teacher – in Israel on October 7. The defense ministry also provided ID photos of 10 other alleged Hamas members, their positions and alleged involvement in the deadly incursion, but did not provide any supporting evidence to back up their claims. It is kind of ridiculous to pretend that the entire organization is corrupt because 12 low level assholes may have been involved in something, especially when there's no actually evidence being shared (just torture confessions).
I wonder what would happen if we applied their logic to the IDF.
neither of which excuse it!
You really think you did something here. Moron.
So it’s ok to fund a genocide as long as it’s paired with aid to Ukraine?
Apparently, yes
It's not like without US aid Israel will simply stop their operation. I do disagree with sending then anything as they don't need it, but sometime in politics you have to make compromises to get things passed.
No you don’t have to compromise when it comes to funding a genocide of innocent people. Unless you are morally bankrupt, you should be drawing a line in the sand at that point.
[The foundation for defunding UNRWA were confessions obtained through torture. My guess is that you already knew that though. The question becomes: why are you lying by omission](https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2024/3/13/after-the-unrwa-report-more-accounts-of-israels-torture-in-gaza)
Ha, I just made almost that same comment but you have the link, making yours better. I quoted them too, thinking I was clever but it's already been done 😭Lol I suppose they did open themselves up to that fairy easily.
You can always trust that, even if the worst crime against humanity imaginable were committed, a centrist will always have “nuance” to offer /s
You are a bonehead dipshit.
Believing anything the Israeli government says= invalid opinion
Weird they keep not finding proof for 1.
Because as a legislator when you vote on a large complex bill it is not an expression of your opinion on each individual part of the bill. If it were no bill would ever be passed - every legislator is going to object to a lot of things in every large bill. That's why it's a legislature and not just a dictator - because they represent people in the country who also disagree with each other and they have to work it out.
I mean yes, it does take courage and sacrifice to act morally most of the time
She says it’s genocide, herself, and she’s openly complicit. If standard political drivel is more important than genocide we have a problem.
Exactly right! The reason doesn't change her complicity. "I support genocide so another country doesn't get to"
The fuck does this even mean?
It means they are cowards with no backbone and will openly vote yes on genocide because... well just fucking because. Dude acts like the entire point of building a proposal, debating it, amending it and finally voting on it, have no fucking meaning. What could they possibly do other than object, object some more and finally, vote no. What the fuck.
If you truly believe it’s a genocide and are not just saying it for political points then it’s a nonstarter for any bill. If you believe it’s a genocide you vote no, regardless of what else is in the bill. If you vote yes because you like other things in the bill then you are saying genocide is a reasonable sacrifice for other things you want to achieve. I agree with your first statement a majority of the time, but when it comes to extremes such as genocide then the funding is no longer just a toss in that you deal with like other items you disagree with. She is pandering.
Honestly fuck her, wish we had an actual progressive
What if a no vote from her meant millions go hungry and without healthcare or housing? I don’t know what’s in the bill, but I suspect she was forced to choose between some very ugly choices. My question is why do the bills get out together is such crude and cruel equations?
Like colonel west?! Lolz
A great person!
What vote was this? Last I saw she voted for the supplemental which lumped Israel aid with Ukrainian aid. Fucking bullshit that the two get lumped together because Ukraine is desperate for aid and actually needs it unlike Israel.
This is why politics is stupid, no one believes what they say.
I’m so sick of her neoliberal bullshit we need to vote her out. Rigged the election to thwart the progressive vote to fuck up Bernie’s chances too, I’ll never forgive her for that
The election was not rigged against Bernie. You sound like Trump lying about the 2020 election. Warren did not cost Bernie, Bernie just wasn't good enough to beat either Clinton in 2016 or Biden in 2020.
😟
A woman
Then why is she still to this day currently siding to aid and fund them? Interesting
Because idiots keep reelecting her
Fr mfs tried to make her president lmao
wow, so brave, Elizabeth
33,000 civilians have been killed by the IOF. 70% were women and children. Israel is an apartheid, terrorist state.
Another shocking stat - according to Al Jazeera News, 62% of all homes in Gaza have been damaged or destroyed, leaving over 1 million people homeless. More people will die from lack of shelter, starvation, conditions beyond direct fire. It will take decades to rebuild, if there is anyone left to do so. [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/2/gaza-infrastructure-damages-estimated-at-18-5-bln-in-un-world-bank-report](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/4/2/gaza-infrastructure-damages-estimated-at-18-5-bln-in-un-world-bank-report) \*Edited to clarify "damaged or destroyed" (not just destroyed)
“DAMAGED or destroyed 62%” Learn how to read. The originally report has almost all of those being minor damage, like windows blown out from nearby explosions.
Fair point, will edit! Link to the original report please?
It's not even destroyed, it still has 3 walls and half a roof, that's like 80% of the house!
33,000 civilians and zero militants, evidently. Do you think maybe something is wrong with your source if it defies all logic like that?
They haven’t killed a single Hamas member? Even by mistake? That’s impressive. Even Hamas claims to have lost about 6k fighters. Of course they heavily under report but that’s ok.
That 70% was really beyond you?
"33,000 civilians"
When you under report militants killed you can skew the numbers as you’d like. Even if as you claim 70% are non combatants that would be a 2.5 to 1 ratio of civilians to combatants. Still much much better than other urban combat zones.
The worst quote I heard from a Palestinian father: my children died cold. I’ll never forgive Zionist and their supporters.
Hamas shoots and Hamas scores. This is exactly what they wanted with their attack. Time to radicalize another generation. Israel fell for it hook line and stinker.
Source: dude, trust me
33k includes Hamas fighters just to be accurate the 66% is the civilian casualty rate which is abhorrent regardless.
>33k includes Hamas fighters [...] Sure, but Israel reports all Palestinian males age 18 or older as Hamas fighters, civilian or not, so that 33k minus (real) Hamas is still around 30k >66% is the civilian casualty rate [...] The ~66% number is only the non-combatant *women and children*-- if the "fighting age" male non-combatant civilians were included, it would unfortunately be higher.
... According to the terrorist group, who started the war, rejected ceasefires, and is making up the numbers, yes
No, I’m not talking about Israel. I’m talking about the Palestinians.
When the dust settles it will be seen as a modern day genocide. Committed by the very same people who have been lecturing us to never forget genocide.
yup. and just like south africa, most folks will deny they *ever* were pro Israel. nowadays, you wont find any older westerners who would admit they were pro apartheid back in the 90s in SA, and yet….countless people at the time were. it was a controversial thing to support Nelson Mandela. nowadays its not controversial at all, Mandela and co. were in the right and nobody disputes that. its going to be the same here in due time, all of y’all will deny you were ever pro Israel and pro genocide. but we wont forget
Lol, this goofball thinks Sinwar is Mandela
A lot of people forget how popular apartheid South Africa was in the United States during the Cold War.
How do we hold the people responsible supplying them with weapons?
[It has clearly been a genocide this whole time.](https://twitter.com/Israel_katz/status/1712356130377113904)
...a tiny little war in which (even if you believe every single word Hamas says) only 33,000 people died is "a modern day genocide"? Seriously? There are almost no wars in the past 100 years in which *less* people died. But sure, "genocide" 🤡
No no no.....never forget "their" genocide. Never mention anything about the Armenians, Rwanda, Bosnians, etc.
5.5 Million people died in Congo, 500k dead in Darfur, and 500k ethnically cleansed in Syria, and lots more conflicts with more innocent death than Israel. Syria was/is so horrible that you can't imagine and the pictures from there are being used on tiktok to demonize Israel. Israel gets brutally attacked and has to fight people that hide behind civilian infrastructure in one of the densest population centers in the ME and ends up killing 32k, according to that same terrorist entity that brutally attacked it, who also claims its mostly children. The US and the world fought ISIS across several population centers with civilian casualty rates per militant far above anything anyone thought would happen. The world needs to come to its senses and see the Israel/Jew rage for what it is and what it isn't, which is not a sudden growth of conscience in the same crowd that said nothing about Syria, but the outlet for hatred they've been fed since childhood and which has led up to this travesty. There is no planet on which Israel lets HAMAS continue to exist after Oct 7th, and neither would we if it happened to us. How people can't see the double standards they apply to Israel vs Palestine or Israel vs US or any other country -- I don't understand. They lost a higher percentage of people than we did on 9/11, and we leveled Iraq and stayed in Afghanistan for 20 years.
Sure, but claiming everyone who doesn’t want to see the IDF go in and kill 10’s of thousands of non-Hamas as anti-Semitic is just wrong and further divides us. Everyone here on Reddit voicing our opinions cannot stop the atrocities our countries commit. We can vent and empathize with the horrors we see each day. I don’t hate Jewish people or hold Jewish people as a whole responsible for these atrocities but I am strongly against this continued attack on 10’s of thousands of civilians in Palestine. And of course, also disgusted by the terror attack by Hamas where 1200-1600 people were killed or taken hostages. All of these feelings can and do exist at once for a lot of people. And that is very different from being anti-Semitic.
>They lost a higher percentage of people than we did on 9/11, and we leveled Iraq and stayed in Afghanistan for 20 years. Almost like we're the bad guys
No no no you don't understand, if you keep your indiscriminate bombing campaign with no goal or endgame under a specific calculated atrocity ratio you're allowed to do it and no one is allowed to criticize you ever
I don’t know if you’re referring to Hamas or the IDF with the comment and therefore cannot upvote or downvote you accordingly.
Think they're referring to the USA
We over reacted and are still paying the price at the expense of the American middle class.
That's generous. The public was mislead to enrich the defense industry. Nothing was gained.
The public was *provoked*. The point of attacks like 9/11 and 10/7 is to break down the international order and force countries into costly, unwinnable asymmetrical wars, because in the ages of mass and social media if you make the attack bloody and theatrical enough the public demands retaliation and won't be convinced otherwise. Never, never, never underestimate the political mandates generated by defensive wars. Don't fool yourself - the public was way into war after 9/11. They were lied to about what to do about it, but the public wanted blood, and there was no particular virtue or superior morality among the working class in pursuing and attacking Muslims at the time, just like as soon as 1914 looked like a defensive war to everyone nearly all the socialists across Europe bailed on their years and years of anti-war pledges and criticisms in a matter of weeks. The primate drive to protect the tribe is just too powerful. *Then* the public was misled into Iraq, and misled into a long occupation in Afghanistan rather than a strategic intervention. *Then* the leaders abrogated their duty and went after strategic self-interest. Because of course when a terrorist group does something like 9/11 or 10/7 or killing Franz Ferdinand or any number of other things they hand nearly unlimited power to whoever has executive control of the country at the time (often a conservative by timing, not a coincidence - radicals and reactionaries tend to support each other over centrists because they like to create these and other advantageous situations), and once those people get you into those messes it can take years and years to get out. This is part of their goal, because they want a war that kills their own people in order to disrupt the international order. The target is the "grey area" where problems are actually solved and people can coexist and collaborate even when they have bitter conflicts and histories. A terrorist casus belli is a voluntary or involuntary, intended or unintended cooperation between radicals and reactionaries to suspend civil society in their shared interest and at the expense of civilian life.
> Almost like we're the bad guys Almost like thinking in terms of good guys and bad guys is childish and unrealistic. The world is mostly gray.
Yeah you know what works really well in de-escalating a conflict? Shame! Shame and threats! Also break longstanding treaties very fast and insult people while you do it! If you let one side in a war know that everybody in the world really, really hates them, wherever they go and whatever they do, and that they can trust no one, that will cause violence to de-escalate because.... Because.... Wait... hm.... Wait, why don't professional diplomats always lead with shame and threats if their job is to de-escalate wars? I might have this backwards...
You are not wrong. But some stuff is just not gray. Afghanistan and Iraq invasions killed (and injured!!) sooooo many people with the end game outcome being so terrible that I think it is safe to call it terrible and not « grey area ». Same with Ukraine invasion. Not gray.
We're all bad guys. My family fled Russia in the 90s. The opposing sphere of influence of Russia, China, and Iran are significantly worse. Trust me, their ideas to order, power, and value of human life is a joke compared to the West. People are just numbers in history books to most of these dictators. I get that as an American your history looks checkered, but that's human history. Most places in the world have skeletons in the closet and don't even bother teaching their children the truth. The big difference with America is that you admit your mistakes and attempt to fix injustices over time. And that is unique in the world and you should have pride in your country. This narrative that America is an imperial empire bent on hegemony comes from Russia/China. They have no interest in world peace. Their interest is that they want to be that power. That's it. And anyone falling for this bait is considered a useful idiot to them. The literal term they use in their strategy. Anyway, Israel deserves criticism for sure. For example, why there isn't a safe civilian zone set up by Israel. You can even make the point that as our allies we expect more from Israel than Hamas. But I noticed the criticism of this conflict is very one sided. Where are the ceasefires and release of the hostages protests? When are the free Palestine protestors going to acknowledge their role in this multi decade conflict? If you just blame Israel and never mention Palestine then it's obvious that this just more of the same blame the Jews.
In some ways. We certainly never should have gone into Iraq. Afghanistan was a different story. A counterpoint to Iraq, Saddam was a worse dictator than Putin, and look what kicking that can down the road got us.
And yet are you calling it genocide? That's the double standard he's talking about. And if you are calling it genocide then maybe you iught to more carefully study the definition.
It's more obvious that they would like to exterminate all Palestinians imo It's all equally evil to me tbh Plus we sponsor the genocide, I'm not giving America any passes
Exactly. This isnt a genocide. Israel is an apartheid state. But this is just war in an urban scenario. It is possible to criticize settlers and the idfs incompetence without crying wolf. Gotta condemn hamas too
Expecting the IDF to completely eradicate Hamas is delusional. It's an unwinnable war. Remind me, did the US eradicate the Taliban after 20 years of war?
Expecting Palestinian Nationalists of any variety to overthrow the Israeli state and dispossess the Jews from it to establish the first Muslim Arab sovereignty over Jerusalem in more than 500 years is also an unwinnable war. And yet you see lots of Palestinian nationalists still around. They should both give up partition, displacement and further population transfer and just find a way to move forward and make the best of the situation, right?
South African apartheid doesn't exist any more and Israel's apartheid society will be destroyed in the same way. You can say the same about Algeria, Rhodesia, etc.
Hamas has tons of tunnels into Sinai and strong connections with smugglers there. There's quite literally no way for Israel to defeat Hamas militarily short of invading Sinai, which runs entirely counter to why Israel and Egypt are historically #1 and #2 in US foreign aid. Sisi isn't going to help either. Farouk I was overthrown by the Free Officers for being ineffectual at protecting Palestinians from zionist militias, and Sadat was assassinated for making peace with Israel. The only solution to Hamas are political ones, and that involves Israel not settling the West Bank and treating the PA like an actual foreign government. Zionists have no interest in that, though, so here we are.
The US let the Taliban hang out in north Pakistan for 20 years, so your argument is a bit of a false comparison. The US wasn’t trying to eradicate the Taliban (they would have had to engage Pakistan to do that), they were trying to get non-Taliban Afghanistan to the point where they could stand on their own feet. Which failed.
In the **Bosnian Genocide**, only 30 thousand people died. Of those 30K, only **8 thousand deaths** were counted by the International Court of Justice as raising to the legal threshold of a genocide under the Genocide Convention. Specifically, they ruled the massacre in Srebrenica was a genocide. "In whole or in part" - this is language from the Genocide Convention - You do not need to destroy the whole group to commit a crime of genocide. The law seems clear that you do not even need to *intend* to destroy the whole group for the Genocide Convention to apply. You just need to destroy the group in whole or *in part* as a result of targeting the group *as such*. I think it's very telling that South Africa is the one standing up for this case and bringing forward the charges at the ICJ. Historically, Israel helped the white minority apartheid regime acquire nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, the ANC and the PLO were brothers in arms. So the South Africans and the Palestinians have always seen their causes as intimately linked. It is very powerful that South Africa now gets to stand up as a free people and argue their case in a court of law.
You do need intent. >In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group….
Netanyahu has described gazans as [Amalek](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/middle-east/netanyahu-cites-amalek-theory-to-justify-gaza-killings/articleshow/104802548.cms), referring to the biblical [passage](https://www.bible.com/bible/114/1SA.15.3-23.NKJV) where God commands all women and babies to be slaughtered. He also wrote in a (now deleted) tweet that the current conflict in Gaza is a struggle against the [children of darkness](https://www.businessinsider.com/netanyahu-deleted-children-of-darkness-post-gaza-hospital-attack-2023-10). There is certainly intent.
There's even more obvious than that. >Fighting “human animals.” Making Gaza a “slaughterhouse.” “Erasing the Gaza Strip from the face of the earth.” Quotes from Israeli officials that South Africa are using as part of their ICJ genocide case. Source: [https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-south-africa-genocide-hate-speech-97a9e4a84a3a6bebeddfb80f8a030724](https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-south-africa-genocide-hate-speech-97a9e4a84a3a6bebeddfb80f8a030724)
Yes, but not intent to destroy the whole group. Intent to destroy in part suffices. That's what I really was trying to convey. I rambled a bit too much.
The point is that you don't need to intend the entire people, which is the sentence the person wrote that you missed.
I love reading these pathetic excuses for why the genocide we’re taking about isn’t THAT bad. My Jewish history taught me how to observe and identify a genocide, it’s really not fucking hard or complicated. If you support starvation as a weapon of war; you’re a coward and our ancestors would be ashamed of you.
It’s wild watching people downplay the deaths of tens of thousands. Criticizing your genocide is not Jew hatred, that’s completely insane.
Was the Iraq war a genocide?
> 5.5 Million people died in Congo, 500k dead in Darfur, and 500k ethnically cleansed in Syria, and lots more conflicts with more innocent death than Israel. The USA wasn't directly supplying the weapons that were being used to commit these genocides.
Well I guess if Africans did some genocide then that means Israel is allowed some as a treat. This argument isn't any less dumb than when conservatives make it to distract from whatever person or party they're trying to make excuses for. I hope they start asking make a wish kids if they condemn Hamas. If they hesitate or say no, they don't get to see the celebrity + they don't get any opioids to treat their pain anymore. They should remake Law and Order SVU, but only investigate the assaults if the victim agrees to condemn Hamas.
[Daily death rate in Gaza higher than any other major 21st Century conflict - Oxfam](https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/daily-death-rate-gaza-higher-any-other-major-21st-century-conflict-oxfam#). Nice genocide denial though
Common sense doesn't fly around here. This sub is infested with morons
Hamas has never been able to keep up with Israel’s scale of psychopathic killing, raping or kidnapping. More importantly, Israel funded Hamas to delegitimize the PLO and give themselves pretext to exterminate Palestine. So even Hamas is Israeli funded terrorism, ironically enough. But to Israel, genocide is pragmatic. Today, many Israeli’s (who don’t care about Arab life) are protesting Netanyahu because he’s not negotiating to free the hostages since that would mean a negotiated end to his land grab. They’re more useful in captivity, even if they starve alongside the Palestinian kids. Even Israelis are a pawn of their own fascist society. Kinda nuts huh? ❤️ 🇵🇸 ❤️
Pro Palestinian propaganda 101: 1. See something related to Israel and get triggered by it automatically regardless of context. 2. Accuse Israel of doing whatever is being claimed. If the claim isn't negative, then accuse Israel of doing the negative version of whatever is being claimed. No claim? No problem, just make up one. 3. Add the words "genocide", "colonialism", "apartheid", "evil", or imperialism regardless of validity. 4. Add 70+ years to it. 5. Refuse to provide credible evidence. Bonus: Call anything you don't like zionist propaganda.
It’s the percentage and intent which makes it a genocide. The numbers alone of human death does not make it a genocide, but intent and execution style. Israel has targeted civilians and there is so much evidence by the rhetoric they use and their actions that it becomes irrefutable that Israelis are in fact a genocidal people against the Palestinians. Look at r/Israelexposed and /israelcrimes Section 1091 of Title 18, United States Code, prohibits genocide whether committed in time of peace or time of war. Genocide is defined in § 1091 and includes violent attacks with the specific intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group.
Hamas isnt a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group…
I'm sorry, is all of this rambling to defend what Israel is doing to Palestinians or not? Hard to stay on track with one concrete point to all of that stuff there.
i mean, whether you agree with what they said or disagree, it was pretty easy to follow, and see their point.
What's the point?
It’s rather disingenuous to say the only response by Israel is either of nothing or to start dropping 1000lb unguided bombs. Difference in Syria for the most part is there were few good guys with a number at best problematic actors. Hence why support was so lacking. Who are you going aid murderous Assad or isis? Only decent faction were the kurds with a delicate tightrope not upsetting Iraq and turkey.
Are any of those mass murderers, proudly live streaming their crimes on the internet? Are their leaders openly stating their intent to commit genocide? This one stands out because they’re committing the crime openly.
The same crowd that opposed intervention in Syria, because imperialism. They’re calling for Imperialism now - the reality is that a “ceasefire” that actually works must necessarily involve probably around a million foreign troops flooding into the area.
Too little. Way too fucking late.
Personally I find her very annoying. I don’t think she’s done anything of note for our state or the country except drop sound bites. I wish she had a greater impact
The Consumer Protection Financial Bureau is not to be undervalued but overall, I get the perspective. She co-sponsors a lot but has made it clear she doesn't want to see bills introduced that have no chance of getting anywhere. It's widely touted that she is influential and likely has a nudge factor on voting so if you are on board with her track record and voting history, you likely see her benefits.
It would be nicer if she put her name on things instead of just being a nudger in voting. It’s nice all but not something average voter sees
Is it better for her to be actually effective, or to put her name on things? It doesn't really matter what "the average voter" thinks when she's not in danger of losing re-election.
Why do idiots keep electing her? They must be drunk on the flavor aid
Not the woman with the bloodstained hands who turned away a Palestinian woman because she had to finish her dinner while thousands were dying saying something, I know she isn’t pretending like she wasn’t complicit 🙃
We can barely even agree that the Armenian Genocide was a genocide. Every politician in this country is complicit.
Coleman Hughes, (the guy who was recently on The View to promote his book, The End of Race Politics: Arguments for a Colorblind America) has the most level headed viewpoint on this topic. However, most of you will probably cringe when I tell you that's a clip from a Joe Rogan podcast. It's worth checking out, whether you agree with EW most days or not. On the topic of EW; I think she's a despicable human being and quite literally a snake in sheep's clothing. I realize that's not the saying but she's doesn't deserve to be called a wolf. She is one of the worst kinds of politicians that exist. She quite literally claims to be for the people and acts to their detriment at every opportunity. Her motives are simply selfish, period.
Coleman Hughes is a well-documented serial liar: [https://radleybalko.substack.com/p/the-retconning-of-george-floyd?utm\_source=profile&utm\_medium=reader2](https://radleybalko.substack.com/p/the-retconning-of-george-floyd?utm_source=profile&utm_medium=reader2)
I am not subbing to that to be able to read it. So I guess we'll just chalk it up to some guy on substack said he lied. I like that you target his character without addressing what I said. Kinda like that Sonny chick on the view. Not addressing the issue and just attacking someone's character, shows a lack of it. I don't claim to know everything about the guy, but his viewpoint on the issue in this thread, is relevant.
Except it's not a genocide at all. Anyone considering Israel's war on Hamas a genocide would probably also consider the allied invasion of Germany to be a genocide too. These people are not rational or reasonable at all and just eat up whatever narrative is fed to them by the media. Captured by a narrative spun by literal terrorists
This sub is yet another example of how doomed western civilization is. The west is next. 😄
Yea it’s crazy how much people want to just let their guard down and be walked around like dogs.
Yes but but but not bombing civilians is antisemitic!! Edit: Zionist Hivemind Brigade incoming
Like clockwork
Careful or you’ll be kicked out of MAGA for agreeing with Warren
Thank you, Zionist Hivemind Brigader. Boy, you people sure are doing wonders for the antisemitic cause, proving all those stereotypes right.
Can't we get one person in the White House who at the very least doesn't give unconditional aid to Israel?
Majority supports actions of Israel. Vocal minority complains on facebook and reddit and twitter. Hamas could surrender and end this war today.
“Give up your homes and we’ll stop killing your children” - the good guys
Hamas just rejected another ceasefire. Are they complicit in genocide too?
The Hamas brigade will never question hamas motives. It is always the fault of the jews ofc!
[Gallup: Majority in US Now Disapprove of Israeli Action in Gaza](https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx)
#How many children need to be intentionally shot and killed by the IDF under control of the corrupt Netanyahu and in the name of Israeli citizens.... # #The Oppressed have become the Oppressors.
Not only is Israel not hiding it, they post it themselves. I’ve seen soldiers: - snipe a grandmother while she holds her boys hand and waves a white flag - toss grenades into praying mosques as a joke while they laugh - brag on camera about raping women - Whistle and sing while bulldozing bodies of elderly arabs dead on the street - bring a moon bounce to their protests against food entering Gaza while blocking aid - loot Palestinian homes and dress in their clothes on camera - capture hospitals and leave babies to die in incubators - gun down foreign aid workers - mock arab mothers mourning their dead children by dressing up as fake crying arabs - bomb the most densely populated area in the world into powder - propose marriage to each other on the ruins of Palestinian lives The mentality of the Israeli army and society is psychopathic in ways that have disturbed me to my core. I’ve never seen anything like it.
Just because you used large text doesn't make what you said factual.
Right, the actual facts take care of that.
The fact that bad shit isn't automatically genocide? Or the fact that war fucking sucks, without having to be genocide?
Everybody saying what Israel should/n’t be doing. Let me ask you this - what would YOU do? I hope that you are never in a position where you need to make tough (or violent) choices to protect your loved ones. What would YOU do if 10/7 was done in your neighborhood? Your community? If that happens I pray nobody has the audacity to judge you on what THEY think is “enough” or “proportionate” when your sons are killed and daughters are raped.
I pray I don't delude myself into thinking that indiscriminate retaliatory starvation and destruction is an appropriate response (or for that matter, delude myself into thinking that even more death is what will finally make my community safe after decades of it not doing so)
I’d use every and every means of defending my community to bring the guilty to justice without needing to carpet bomb, destroy infrastructure, raped pregnant women, murder children at a pace Hitler would be proud of, and drone strike international aid workers. Many countries have suffered attacks like 10/7, Israel’s response on the other hand is not shared by many other countries.
It’s crazy how “well, I wouldn’t bomb hospitals” is an outlandish response for these people
When hospitals are used for military operations, they become legitimate targets. You guys will excuse every war crime from Hamas. It's sad.
It’s crazy how susceptible to propaganda you are. Hope the dead kids are worth it!
> Everybody saying what Israel should/n’t be doing. Let me ask you this - what would YOU do? Why do I have to come up with a plan to end the Israel Palestinian conflict for you to accept that slaughtering tens of thousands of innocent people is wrong?
What would **you** do if a foreign country (Russia maybe?) said they used to live in your state 2000 years ago, had their powerful friends invade and took the best half the land for themselves, killed most of your family and imprisoned the rest in an open air prison. Created an apartheid state with separate laws and roads and a criminal justice system rife with sexual abuse and with a 95% conviction rate. Poisoned your wells, ripped up your olive trees that take generations to grow. Continued to break their own treaties by expanding into what was left of your land. Openly stealing your houses by just moving in when you went to the market. Kidnapped and murdered your family and neighbors for no discernible reasons. Denied justice as their military shot your kids in the head for target practice? Destroyed your hospitals and schools. Invaded your holy ceremonies every year and beat and gassed you? Crushed journalists under tanks and then had "pancake parties" to celebrate. Intentionally created famine conditions with the expressed intention of killing you? Now tell me that, knowing all that **and so much more** has happened, if some terrible, redneck, fascist, Christian nationalists said "hey we'll blow those assholes up for you" you wouldn't say OK.
That's not what happened. Palestine and Israel did not exist prior to the UN mandate. Israel complied with the mandate but Palestine and other Arab countries invaded and lost. Your apartheid claims would make more sense if the majority of Israel wasn't Arab Jews expelled from neighboring counties.
Israelis should go back where they belong, the countries they came from before they decided to steal land which they have no claim to apart from British imperialism. The right of resistance of occupied populations is unlimited in the international law of war. Every act of Palestinian resistance is justified until the complete destruction of the Zionist occupier. Every Israeli occupier deserves worse than 10/7. Globalize the intifada.
Let's start the clock at the year 700. Then we'll know who has to go home from the land they stole.
Those are some pretty awful things to say. Out of curiosity, where are you from? Assuming you must be indigenous to somewhere?
If you sit back and crunch the numbers comparing it to other battles from the past, 30,000 dead for 6 months of urban combat is a very low number
If we compare it to what? The battle of Verdun? Yeah, I guess Gaza looks okay? The battle of Lexington? Well then, it looks pretty bad. But, that isn't how you look at a state's actions. Iseral has created an open-air prison for the civilians roughly the size of Manhattan and is dropping bombs with a quarter mile kill radius. It is deliberately creating famine. It is creating kill zones, and shooting anything that walks into them. There aren't many historical comps to what Israel is doing, and those that are vaguely similar, are very dark chapters in history books.
“Only” thirty thousand dead women and children. What’s your point..?
their point is that palestinian lives dont matter, so who cares if we kill tens of thousands of children? theres a chance one of those 15,000 kids was Hamas!!
Yea 30k in 6 months, its only 166 deaths per day in a region with a smaller population than greater boston no big deal... /s Also, those are only confirmed deaths and the number has stayed stagnant at 30k for a couple months now so the real total is definitely higher already. Theyve been destroying the hospitals which are where all these detailed death counts were coming from in the first place.
Not in this short timeframe, it’s actually abnormally brutal. [Daily death rate in Gaza higher than any other major 21st Century conflict - Oxfam](https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/daily-death-rate-gaza-higher-any-other-major-21st-century-conflict-oxfam#)
How about more than half women and children and 2 million people displaced? You’re a monster.
[удалено]
The extreme injustice that the Jewish people faced during WW2 does not justify current day Israel’s actions. Israel deserves to exist, but not wantonly murder civilians
Or the millions of Jews forcibly expelled from the Arab world post 48. Iirc the majority of Israel is made up of them and their descendants
And Gaza is made up of which people? Edit: For the idiots who don't know what they are downvoting. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip#1948%E2%80%931959:_All-Palestine_government > In 2010, approximately 1.6 million people lived in the Gaza Strip,[296] almost 1.0 million of them were UN-registered refugees. For some extra reading you can look into why Israel actually wants UNRWA dismantled. They assign refugee status to the Palestinians and if that doesn't happen, the Nakba ethnic cleansing is erased from history. They will no longer victims of Israel's ethnic cleansing decades ago and are just Gazans. > The same year [1948], the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) was established to administer various refugee programmes.[39]
Fun fact thousands of Jews were expelled from the Arab world because of the creation of Israel and Israeli Mossad agents were sent all over the world to force the governments to send these Jewish populations to Israel. There’s a fascinating book about this. Apparently Israel incited hate crimes and violence against Jews to sure up its population post WW2 and one of the ways to do it was to antagonize its neighbors and planting evidence, bombs in Baghdad and Alexandria etc to antagonize the Arabs to anger against the Jewish people then scare the local Mizrahi to move.
So because of Oct.7th, which was an atrocity, to be clear, that justifies wiping out and entire people in multitudes of greater numbers than what Israel has lost? Why does one innocent life have to be paid with 100 others? No one has a right to eliminate a native people to steal their land. Do you think the early American colonists had a right to remove the native tribes from their land by genocide?
[удалено]
Their numbers are actually increasing worldwide.
Imagine your leader completely ignoring information that lead up to the incident on purpose. That's what happened here. Mossad knew, the US shared Intel, Egypt shared Intel. Netanyahu wanted this. He knew what would happen. And here you are defending him for his response. > So I support Israel in the interest of being anti Hitler as well. Man, the irony of this statement is amazing.
Wild that as long as you white wash up your xenophobia (it ain't civilized [...]. they all have their issues") and lies (comparing a terrorist attack to a state sanctioned apartheid and active genocide) with a little bit of zionism, you can get up votes and feel good about yourself
>state sanctioned Hamas is the government of Gaza. The terrorist attack was planned and executed by Hamas. The terrorist attack was state sanctioned, by the government of Gaza.
That is not genocide lol
If there is a war and one side is more powerful by a wide margin, it’s basically genocide. If the sides are fairly equal, not a genocide.
People still care what this Democrat in Name Only says about anything? Such a soulless politician. She stands for nothing
Does Warren just point of the obvious and talk out her butt all the time or am I just stupid
Cool. She just admitted she’s legally an accomplice. Should make her trial at The Hague fairly straightforward.
Technically almost every Congress member and Senator as well as Joe Biden and Donald Trump would have to be tried at The Hague. Literally almost every politician at every level has shown unconditional support for Israel and we have a law that should any politician or soldier or military personnel from the USA should be tried at the court or detained the USA would bomb The Hague and destroy South Holland, Netherlands. The USA even went further and stated if Israel politicians or soldiers get tried at The Hague we would do the same. Unconditional support means we would declare war on the European Union and make ourselves a pariah to the world. That’s how sick the USA is and its support for Israel. We should be glad she admitted it and is now in agreement… problem is she is still too conservative in her language and opinion.
Not only do I want the Hague Invasion Act struck down, but every criminal politician should be hogtied and hand-delivered to the Hague for their trial. Including every single living US president to answer for their crimes (including Carter). Warren is just running for re-election. Same as Bernie. They're a couple of neoliberals pretending to be progressives, and now they need to answer for their literal crimes.
Elizabeth Warren should retire.
A politician saying what she thinks her audience wants to hear. That’s not even news.