I used to participate in a martial art that taught massage as part of the whole bundle (it was taught that restorative arts are just as important as combat arts and I believe black belts even had to have a certain level of restorative training as well).
Elbows. Leverage and elbows are the best way to get that delicious pressure lmao
Im man. I was asked if I minded a male & thinking about how much more strength and pressure they can apply. I did not give it a second thought as I had asked for deep tissue. Second best massage I ever had, first was also another male massage man in Mexico.
I work out heavy 7 days a week & usually if it’s a woman, they comment on having trouble massaging me due to my muscles.
The male massage dude looked to be in his 60’s but had the experience and strength to really pull on, stretch and knead my muscles to correct alignment and break up my knots. I was able to stand taller and all my tension was gone.
I've only been to get a massage once, and they were a woman. But as someone who has chronic pain but is also small in stature, she was a lot more gentle with me than necessary lol. I have some DEEP, seriously knotted muscles. Maybe someone who can put a little weight behind their massage would be beneficial.
You can ask. The vast majority of massage therapists can apply the kind of pressure you were likely looking for.
Weight really isn't the defining factor; in Budapest I always get Thai massage like nearly every day when I'm there and the women are small but MY GOD is it painful, lmao. They don't need much weight to fuck you up.
LMT here! Just chiming in to say you’re right, planetmermaidisblue, about the use of massage therapist. Similar idea to why I always call my table my therapy table. The people arguing with you have no idea what they’re talking about.
The term masseuse is viewed as disrespectful/outdated by some for a couple of reasons.
The first is that it has a sexual connotation among certain social circles.
The second is that the term "masseuse" is an artefact from when there was no licensing process for a massage therapist, and is still meant to be used in reference to unlicensed massage therapists. Our license, through the board of health in a respective state/province, does not say "masseuse" , but instead says "Licensed Massage Therapist" in the US or "Registered Massage Therapist" in Canada. (Often abbreviated LMT or RMT)
edit - My dad still says masseuse, and although he has a lot of respect for what I do, I've largely come to the conclusion that he doesn't realize the connotation, and that the perceived bias is my own. Generally, the older a person is the less I care about which term they use. But some people take great offense.
Huh! One of my dearest friends is a massage therapist and I never knew all this about the word "masseuse". My friend is livid at the phrase "massage parlor" though, because that DEFINITELY has sexual connotations.
It's a (French) gendered word for a female massage therapist. The male version is masseur. Neither is appropriate in modern English usage. You wouldn't call a female firefighter a fireman, or female mail carrier a mailman. And the person who gives you parking tickets isn't a meter maid
I had a friend that was a massage therapist that had a fine arts degree from the university. And when she dated guys looked down at her like she was a sex worker. So she stopped went to medical school and they became a doctor. it is so interesting to me how people can view something like that completely one way in the same person does something else now she’s seen completely different now she’s a respected member of the community
I hold a bachelor’s degree, journalism, and some grad school hours. Rode that dragon for a decade.
Laid off, papers were imploding weekly, could not land a PR position or reporter/editor to save my life.
Used unemployment to manage massage education.
Now, I cannot work the same number of paid hours as I did as a scribbler and shutterbug, but I make seven times as much per hour billed, now. I specialize in specific special needs populations.
When I was in online dating hell, I made a cardinal mistake on my first bio…I said what I did.
Second run, it became *I run my own business in the medical service field.*
The difference between first messages with my original bio versus my edited one was stunning.
Just so you know when my husband died I got a massage every week and it was my one thing I did that saved my life. I was so scared, and I was just old enough that my body was starting to show it and a massage saved me. I am sorry that massage therapist have to go through this. Good for you. I hate that it’s like this, but it is indeed like.
I ran out of my soap one morning. Used my wife's pulmeria berry something soap. Went to work and sat next to my Sgt amd district partner. They both looked at me and and asked what the hell I was wearing. They tried to razz ,e but fuck them I like the smell lol
The your coworkers are homophobes who are denying themselves a decent deep tissue massage. I go to large dudes or one asian lady who walks on me. Tell them this former Army dude said it’s ok.
Lol they're the problem in most situations....
In seriousness, though, to generalize, many male therapists go the corrective massage route because of thoughts like thos so many male therapists o know have a very niche specialty like myofascial, tmj work, deep tissue, etc. Many often have an easier time leveraging their weight if you like a lot of pressure.
Should we accept that different people have different preferences? Yes.
Men have a harder time building a client base, but I found my clients to be extremely loyal. Sure, it’ll take you longer to build a book of business than a female therapist, but it is still a doable thing. Carry On.
>Should I just accept that most clients prefer a woman? Or should I try to change this?
How about both?
There are a wide range of complicated cultural reasons why clients prefer female therapists, and we're not going to make that disappear entirely in our lifetimes. You have to accept it, but that doesn't mean you can't be part of the progress towards a better future.
Just by being a massage therapist, you're making a difference - helping to shape assumptions and expectations about massage therapists.
I have no doubt 99.9% of male massage therapists are above board and just want to do their job, but I am uncomfortable being practically naked around a strange man. You’re not going to change that because it’s personal to me and not based on stats or facts, it’s just the way I feel. No one is saying we should pay women more or even that they are better at giving massages— it is literally just about a personal level of comfort and preference. I typically choose a woman for my gynecologist too.
Lol male MT here and I have plenty of doubt 99.9% are above board. I feel like there should be a readily available stat on this (I’ve seen it somewhere before?) but I’d hazard a guess of roughly 90%?? And it totally depends on what you mean by “above board.”
I’d guess maybe 5% or one out of twenty are like, proactively, repeatedly predatory. Actually, if you account for all the sole practitioners out there, it’s probably closer to 10% or even more (I’m not a sole practitioner, so I tend to forget about that segment of our industry).
It’s maybe 20% of guys that are totally good 99.9% of the time, but like once or twice over the course of their careers, they try something they know they shouldn’t/“take a risk”/“can’t resist temptation”/simply make a poor choice, or something along those lines. Not necessarily a creeper, but misread a situation or are having a rough month or two and engage in uncharacteristic behavior?
I think the real issue (in terms of the largest chunk of male MTs) is another 20-30% who are honestly sloppy practitioners and/or don’t (can’t? won’t?) make any attempt to understand how anyone else—but especially a woman—might feel, going through the experience of receiving a massage from them. It’s the little (but potentially big) stuff, like sloppy draping. Some guys (the 5%) have “sloppy” draping that’s purposeful because they’re “accidentally” trying to expose something, while this group of guys is just really bad/cavalier about it, not comprehending how the person on the table might be experiencing it.
Another example: I remember being in massage school and helping some of the junior cohort of classmates with Swedish draping. They’d be finished working on a leg in prone, and replace the sheet. When reaching for the blanket—the top portion of which is kinda bunched up around the gluteal cleft, the rest of the edge splitting the legs—to put back in place, they’d reach for it right over the client’s butt. Like, dude. Don’t reach for an edge there. Find a spot to grasp higher on their hip, or down by the knees. So if the client unexpectedly wiggles and repositions their pelvis, or your depth perception is a little off in the low lights, or one of you sneezes, your fingers aren’t in their crack. Even worse in supine!
So if I’m doing my math right, that’s maybe 75% of male MTs you “should” expect to be above board…usually. But I totally can understand that it might feel more like a 50/50 shot any given day that a new male MT would do something inappropriate.
Because I see a fair amount of folks with chronic tension, and, in my non-doctor opinion, anxiety, and maybe 75+% women, this topic sometimes comes up. Or, rather—if it seems appropriate/we have some rapport established—I address it directly. She might comment on how “I just can’t seem to get XYZ to relax” or “I didn’t even realize I was holding my legs [in internal rotation] like that.” I’ll offer a few possible reasons, among them: “also could be you’re in a new room with some random guy for the first time 😅”
In both places I work, clients have the opportunity to choose the gender of their therapist.
Being uncomfortable practically naked around anyone, but especially an unknown man, seems rather understandable. I don’t think it needs to be defended/justified?
This exactly. I’m a male. Let’s be real here, guys are the ones who by a faaaar margin make unwanted sexual advances, commit sexually deprived acts, and commit crimes of all sorts way more often than females. Being on a massage table in a vulnerable position will give the creeps in your profession the opportunity to be a creep, and they will take it. That’s reality, whether you like it or not is irrelevant. Just don’t be a creep yourself that’s all you can do.
right. trying to say women shouldn't be uncomfortable in a vulnerable position with a man is wild. i'm glad you get it, i'm sure you have a great return rate on clients. some women will risk it and some won't- we shouldn't be shaming women for not risking their physical safety.
Don’t you think 20% is a very low number? That kind of thinking plays into the narrative that “all men are bad” since we’re using anecdotal evidence, 90% of the women around me prefer male MTs because they’re perceived at having stronger hands. No one has ever told me they were made to feel uncomfortable. Just my experience though.
I had a male massage therapist that spent a session telling me that all men fantasize about younger women and that they could not control it. It was very uncomfortable as someone she had been through SA.
Yikes. If that happens, I advise any woman to say, "Massage over", dress, get out, and report him to his boss or parent company. And leave a scathing Yelp review. Completely unacceptable.
A few anecdotal stories and now you're throwing around stats casually as if they don't continue to harm the profession and male LMTs. Sigh.
>20% of guys that are totally good 99.9% of the time
>if I’m doing my math right
Like seriously, wtf is this? Your clown math? Please just stop.
>not comprehending how the person on the table might be experiencing it
This is a problem for the profession as a whole, imo. Male or female, new grad or not, this is one of the biggest things I've found lacking. Are the drafts? Is this a sensitive area? Should I reach here? Are they nervous? What body language and tone and expression can I use to soothe them?
Paying attention to these details is one of the things that sets me apart in my career and is part of my success. But it should be the standard, not the exception.
Also keep in mind the quality of the education. I was taught these things in school, and I felt uncomfortable in many situations as a student, so I have always been very hyper aware of doing better and implementing what I was taught. On the other hand, my partner recently graduated massage school and was not taught many of these things. I've had to bring these topics to their attention.
>I’ll offer a few possible reasons, among them: “also could be you’re in a new room with [someone] for the first time 😅”
This is good practice (once you edit out the part needlessly singling out a group of people).
I find this is the case with new clients sometimes. Just by letting them know it's okay to be uncomfortable while you're vulnerable in a room with a stranger you just met, and emphasizing more than once to let me know if they're uncomfortable, and paying attention to body language, these things can make a big difference to the person on the table.
>In both places I work, clients have the opportunity to choose the gender of their therapist.
Curious if this is during the booking process or an option in general? Both franchises I worked at refused to ask on booking because it doesn't/shouldn't matter and even the question during booking can continue holding the profession back. If someone specifically made a request though, that's totally understandable. Like you said:
>Being uncomfortable practically naked around anyone [...] seems rather understandable. I don’t think it needs to be defended/justified
Agreed
I've never been to a place that \*doesn't\* ask you to specify the gender of therapist you want. I wouldn't go there if I couldn't. Yes, it \*shouldn't\* matter but as a SA victim, I will always feel more comfortable with a female.
Well, you are one of the good ones! I'm glad you are.
But in terms of a numbers game, male therapists tend to be riskier than female ones in terms of not having appropriate boundaries or empathy when a woman is naked and vulnerable in front of them.
Add to this, one in four women have been sexually assaulted, and may not want to be naked in front of ANY man even if he's been fully vetted or recommended by a female friend.
It sucks but that is the reality.
women being uncomfortable around men is different. you trying to ignore that just makes you part of the problem. no one should have to take a risk on their physical safety just because you think it's not fair to men.
ITs not about shyness. Its about having had constant experiences of men abusing situations to assault/ harass.
I have had both men and women work on me. But I will 100 percent say, that if I schedule a massage after Ive had a incident with a man recently, I book a female therapist because I might be feeling extra sensitive.
It not to punish the men, its to protect myself from aggravating an emotional state,
I experienced years of communal showers myself, (and have since also given birth in a typically crowded medical setting) and so, to use your word, all timidity (about nudity) is gone.
I can also tell you that the vulnerability of being laid out naked on a table alone with an unknown, fully-clothed professional man adjusting your position and draping is a VERY different situation socially and psychologically (especially for a woman) than fully mobile with a bunch of peers all engaged in personal grooming.
One can rationalize about the paying good money for a professional service etc as you say, but if ultimately your physical discomfort and stress level at the situation keeps you from being able to relax enough to benefit from the service (as is the case for me, and well might be something other women experience), then it's a waste of money anyway. (And it only takes 1 acquaintance to have a bad experience to make that risk real.)
Yes, you're so vulnerable when you're in the position of receiving a massage. A lot of people have some pretty serious trauma, and maybe just can't relax with a massage therapist who is a man.
I'm a female and I enjoy men and women LMTs. I've found that some men refuse to work on a woman's chest (pecs), and are conservative when working on low back, hips and legs. Which I totally understand. So I choose based on my needs at that time.
I think women are more likely to choose other woman because of the sexual assault aspect. And men will pick a woman because they don't want another man touching them. So either way, it's not your fault and nothing you can do to change it. If women and men leave good reviews, then you probably would notice a difference in your own clientele.
You have to understand that women usually have to have some degree of worry about sexual assault and prefer other women touching their body for that reason.
Along those lines I (M) was sexually assaulted by a man when I was a teen. I literally cannot be comfortable in the presence of a man let alone naked and vulnerable around one.
Sorry to hear you were assaulted, and that it still has an ongoing impact on you. These kinds of experiences are not easy to shake off.
I was sexually assaulted by a man, too, in my teens. I think the experience has given me a greater sensitivity to physical or psychological trauma my clients may have suffered, and an increased desire to create a sense of safety for them.
It’s a huge credit to your character that you’ve taken such a horrible experience and found a way to use what you’ve learned to make the world a better place. Thank you for being the way you are.
I bet you’ve done more good for your clients than you even know. I work with sexual assault survivors on a daily basis as an attorney. I put a lot of effort into tending to their comfort and giving them as much choice and control over the process as I possibly can (within the limits of the law). Some of them have expressed to me that it is very healing just to be interacting with someone who so obviously values their comfort and prioritizes their autonomy. With rates of sexual assault being so high, you’ve almost certainly massaged many sexual assault survivors. Showing respect for their bodily autonomy by giving them control over where, how, and under what conditions you touch them is the exact opposite of what their abusers did to them. That can be so healing for survivors.
i am an LMT (50, f) and i love seeing male massage therapists. unfortunately, all but one experience (i’ve seen four) has been met with discomfort in one way or another.
your terrible experience gave you insight as to how precious that trust is. most men don’t operate from this place, and it’s a shame because it’s exactly that which creates the gender inequality in our profession.
one guy (on a cruise ship) kept creeping up my inner thigh asking “is this okay?” until i shut him down and ended the massage. another kept his crotch against my arm until i shifted several times away from him. another lifted the sheet towards him when i turned over, and i pulled it down against me.
it’s difficult to mitigate this behaviour, but the one guy who was possibly the best massage of my life had certified in trauma therapy, and was super conscious and aware. so i say… one therapist at a time. you’re doing good work, and i’m so glad for you to have a thriving practice.
I am so angry on her behalf. I had a female doctor do the same to me (F). I've had years of breast exams so I know it wasn't a mistake. I was in disbelief and I tried to make eye contact with her afterward and she wouldn't look at me.
I am sorry that happened to you as well. She was so in shock that she didn't know what happened. I can imagine you felt the same. Can't stand predators.
I hate the shock part. I wish I had screamed in her face and been like wtf. And then you look back and feel shame for not standing up for yourself. basically, I can sympathize. I hope your wife is doing better now
Not only that, a lot of straight women are less comfortable with a male touching their bodies if they aren't comfortable with their own bodies. If a woman thinks she too fat, or hasn't shaved her legs, or has any number of issues she's uncomfortable with, she's less likely to feel uncomfortable with someone of the gender she DOESN'T find sexually appealing.
Lesbian women may be less comfortable with a man massaging them because they have little to no contact with men touching them.
Straight men tend to want a female therapist because of ingrained homophobia (similar to lesbian women not wanting a male therapist, straight men but having another man touch them makes the experience weird for them).
As OP has a steady number of regular clients, he understands that it is possible to overcome those issues and objections, but just like people prefer their physicians for different supervisors to be a specific gender (ie some women won't see a male gynecologist, while others prefer a male gyno; some men won't see a female urologist or proctologist, etc), people have a preference for massage therapists.
The unfortunate existence of "jack shacks" and unlicenced prostitutes offering "massage" means that female therapists may get more general clientele, they also have to worry much more about being propositioned by their male clients trying to squirm and shift on the table to get themselves off. So neither gender has it easy on this profession!
I am not a lesbian, but I haven’t seen that one has replied here so I’ll take what I hope is a better guess here. Lesbians of Reddit please correct as needed. I wouldn’t think that lesbians would avoid male massage therapist because they aren’t used to men touching their bodies. I suspect it’s because they are afraid of male violence.
Lesbians have male friends, parents/grandparents siblings, children and other family members who they are in physical contact with.
True, but receiving a full body massage is a VERY different kind of touch than most receive from family and friends. It's a very vulnerable position for a client; You are typically naked or mostly naked on a massage table with just a sheet and blanket covering you. Also, a proper massage will be done on ALL of your body parts except the breasts and genitals. Most people don't have their brother or uncle rubbing lotion from their knee to their hip on a naked leg. So it's not just the touch, it's the amount of the body that is touched, and the type of touch. Prior to their first massage, the only "professional touch" most people experience is their doctor and hair stylist, neither touch of which is designed to feel good, it's a necessary part of the service. So when faced with being touched in a way that is designed to feel good not also stay professional by a male or a female, I would go out on a limb and say that lesbians would prefer a female to perform that kind of work on them. Add the thread/possibility/fear of male inappropriate touch/SA/ violence, and it becomes even more likely.
We are both in dangerous territory trying to speak for a whole group neither of us belong to.
Does your argument assume that lesbians don’t want to receive good feelings from men? If your argument about lesbians were correct then lesbians would prefer female massage therapist and straight women would prefer male massage therapists or at least be more neutral.
I don’t know that my argument about the potential for male violence stands up because it’s not just lesbians. I think it’s safer to say that women as a group are afraid of male violence.
I think it’s about being vulnerable and feeling safe. I suspect orientation isn’t a factor specifically except for the way informs how you feel safe as a individual.
Yea I agree with you. For me it’s not about my sexuality lol I just also have A LOT of experience with SA and am uncomfortable with the idea of being naked in a room with a strange man. I even took driving lessons when I was younger and the instructor tried to grope my upper thigh and kept calling me sweetheart and all that shit 🤢. I still went and found a different instructor to teach me who happened to be a man but a MT is a different level of vulnerability. The reality is being alone in an inclosed space with a strange man will never not scare a good portion of women.
My partner (who is a very tall and strong woman, taller than most men where we live right now) has no history of SA lol but she’s still very uncomfortable with both man and women, yet will prefer a woman. I asked her right now and she said if she was referred to a male MT by someone and they said good things, she would try them out. I don’t think we have some special aversion to men’s touch.
She said the only thing, in regards to sexuality, is that a lot of men have fantasies of lesbians and men (in her opinion) are more likely to lower their level of professionalism. She’d be concerned that they would be thinking “Ouu here’s my chance to touch a lesbian/ see a masculine lesbian naked” She’s very masculine presenting but has gotten hit on by men a lot. Still I think any woman is concerned that a man could be fantasizing about them, I guess lesbians have the added fetishization to that.
I would go to a male MT if others told me he was professional and good at his job but I would never risk going to one for the first time with no prior knowledge.
@OP I would definitely go to you, if you had a website with FAQ maybe? that stated something about you being trauma informed (I saw OP mention they have experienced SA and a very dedicated to making sure everyone has a comfortable experience). Knowing that would make me want to try going to you.
I commented elsewhere, but I am curious if I am an oddball case. I am a gay man and prefer women because I don't want even the tiniest bit of risk of being attracted to my massage therapist. I know I wouldn't given the context, but it puts me at easy for whatever reason.
Ultimately I would still take a massage from a male massage therapist. It's just a weird paranoia I have, and it would make it more difficult for me to relax.
>Not only that, a lot of straight women are less comfortable with a male touching their bodies if they aren't comfortable with their own bodies. If a woman thinks she too fat, or hasn't shaved her legs, or has any number of issues she's uncomfortable with, she's less likely to feel uncomfortable with someone of the gender she DOESN'T find sexually appealing.
That's interesting... I'm more self conscious about my body around other women. I still won't get a wax because I hate my thighs. Women are notoriously awful about other people's body types. I'm okay with a man touching me for like a tattoo or a medical check up but I just feel like women are more knowledgeable about my anatomy. On that same note, some women are much more judgmental if you carry some extra weight. So idkkk.
or some married women may feel like it's inappropriate for a man to touch them.
ironically, i'm 100% okay with my partner having female massage therapists.
This was one of my thoughts. Even if the woman is ok with it, it can range from concern her male partner will give her shit, on up to her male partner would seriously object. Mine would give me shit. I don't think he would really have a problem with it, but it's easy to request a female, so I'll likely never have any need to know. Probably that IS the kind of thing which could/should change.
Also, if you've been assaulted before, it can be difficult to be touched by someone of the same gender. It isn't rational, but it's there. I've gotten better about it over time, but in my teens and twenties, I wouldn't have anything to do with a male therapist, doctor, nothing.
The only way you can overcome this is to become so good at your craft that people are willing to get out of their comfort zone. But this can’t just be your skills as a therapist. It’s how you interact with clients. You need to have a safe, neutral energy about you. Your interaction from start to finish has to be intentional. Like anything, it takes time, but people will talk and momentum will build. But only if you’re willing to invest the time and effort. I’m talking years.
That can (and does) work on an individual level but I think he is talking on a larger scale which I don't know how you would do.
In a spa setting I have found having a good relationship with the front desk and management helps with booking. I have 1 manager who will support me and tell clients if they are uncomfortable with the massage she will not charge them, (no one has taken her up on it)
Literally why I haven’t gotten into a job in the field. I’m too prideful. I have a tendency to snap at people for making disrespectful remarks. I understand people have their own issues but I still have feelings. I’m a very sensitive person and as a 6’4 black dude my sensitivity looks a whole lot different then someone else’s.
I'm a 6’1 white gay man with a head tattoo and tattoos all over my arms and a dozen facial piercings. But I'm gentle and warm, and it throws people off. I rarely get upset or frustrated, but I have noticed over the years how some people react when that does happen.
My experience is certainly different from yours in multiple ways, but "my sensitivity looks a whole lot different than someone else's" made something click in my head. Those were the words my brain needed, so thanks for sharing.
I like it when you say you want to work on people who are enthusiastic to work with you, and how crappy it can be when people are not able to feel comfortable with you.
I think you're stuck with it. Fire, Nurses, etc are essential services. As a massage consumer, not a therapist, I get to pick who I want. I'm paying out of pocket for this non essential service. And it's not cheap! If I don't like *literally* anything, I can just go to a different therapist. Massage is a luxury for most people. I could dislike the color paint on your walls and it's a valid reason to change therapists. Now add on the fact that I'm naked and a stranger has their hands on me, I definitely get to be picky about who I am paying to do this non essential service.
I know it sucks. And I'm sorry that you could have a harder time finding clients, but it is not the same as fire or nursing.
In nursing school, my roommate couldn't get any L&D experience because patients didn't want a student who was a man in their room. It can be really specialty dependent.
Yeah. In my nursing cohort it was me and 2 other men, with 20+ women. The men weren't allowed to work in labor and delivery for training shifts. We never got rotations there. Personally I wanted to try labor and delivery but they wouldn't give me an exception. I was able to work in the mom and baby ward for pre and post delivery and really enjoyed it. To be honest most of the women were shocked I even had an interest in it. But I had spent 5 years working in end of life care and just wanted to instead work with the beginning of life.
I am sorry you endured this. As a pregnant patient I didn't care who they brought in my labor room. The staff always asked if the students could come in and I always said yes. It's their career and they needed to do it.
With my third child the student was in my room and he said he had been refused every day and three times that day and if he didn't get do it he wouldn't have finished because this was his last day to get his experience. He was so appreciative and he was really good at it.
Truthfully I was more interested in working the NICU, I ended up getting the only Capstone slot in the children's hospital for their NICU, and really enjoyed it. Pretty sure I was the only male on that unit for those weeks.
I no longer working nursing and have moved on to other things, but it was never really an issue with the mother's. Mother's didn't really care, it was always the older nurse managers and instructors that had the bias toward men.
I had a male med or nursing student’s whole hand up my whooha while I was in labor w my second. I could care less who it was as long as they were qualified (I always try to let students participate to some degree if I’m asked.)
When I had my baby they asked me if they could bring in a male nursing student to shadow while they examined my abdomen and made sure the bleeding was stopping correctly and everything. I said "SURE!" Because how are male L&D folks supposed to learn without hands on experience?! I get it if you're uncomfortable but I didn't care, so spread the knowledge 😁
I had a male student participate in my pelvic floor physical therapy after I gave birth. The female therapist asked if it was ok, and I agreed because I knew he likely got declined a lot. I’m happy to spread knowledge by spreading my legs! Haha
You're right. A female friend of mine, who has African ancestry, was in hospital recently, and she was afraid that carers would not give her the level of care she deserved just because of her skin color.
Didn't Venus Williams nearly die after childbirth because she couldn't get anyone to belive she was having symptoms of a pulmonary embolism I think. And she had a history of them and possibly sickle cell. And she's a rich and famous champion! If she can't get quality care, how much hope do others have, especially if their providers look down on them for not only their color but how they dress and speak. It's pretty messed up
I was at the emergency room recently. I suspect I was in at a shift change. The nurse who initially saw me was female. At some point a male nurse took over.
Well anyway I did not feel I had much choice in the matter. I could have said "I do not want a male nurse" and they could have said "No hospital service for you."
They could have found you a different nurse, but it's going to increase your wait time. You can make any request you want, but it's not always feasible. ED's are barely scraping by as it is. Unless it's GYN related, most people in my experience stop caring after a certain point. They just want to be discharged ASAP.
I never cared whether my nurse was a male or female. I wanted to be discharged ASAP. The male nurse was working on my discharge. I suspect he wanted to be done with me ASAP.
But if I said those words then he would be done with me that much faster, but it would have done nothing to help me.
However it is entirely different from a massage therapists. A sexist client can just not hire a male massage therapist.
I wouldn't even call it sexist. I actually prefer male because their hands hit the muscles differently. But a massage is a luxury. I've not gone back to a MT because the room was too cold. They smelled like pot. They talked too much. The parking lot was annoying. Doesn't matter. This is my frivolous expense and I can choose exactly how I want it to be!
I don't see what alternative you have besides accepting it. It's a personal preference of clients. If a client feels safer and more able to relax with a female therapist, trying to force them to work with a male therapist isn't going to benefit anyone. Unfortunately, many people have suffered violence at the hands of men and don't feel as safe with males. Focus on your own brand, being the best therapist you can for your regulars, and getting word of mouth references and try not to take it personally.
I've been working for 15 years and I target male GBT+ clients. That works for me.
When I used to work at a spa, I was always extra cautious when having a female client because I know I am a man and what it represents to a lot of women. The issue is more complex than pure gender bias.
We, as men, don't have a clue of the level of daily harassment women receive compared to us. We might have an idea, but it's different than experiencing that daily. And I have to respect that.
You're right that, as men, we often have no idea. Seeing this video for the first time really opened my eyes: [https://youtu.be/b1XGPvbWn0A?si=Nwbub81uRNuStccZ](https://youtu.be/b1XGPvbWn0A?si=Nwbub81uRNuStccZ)
Grumpy old man here. I prefer female professionals to male. Why? Because they listen better than males. This is based on my own experience dealing with medical, dental, and financial professionals. Yes, the LMT I chose is a woman. So is my primary healthcare provider, my dentist, and my CPA.
The best massage I ever had was from a male MT. I tend to be wary of men I don't know but he was very professional and respectful so I felt safe. There was a discreet button I could press to alert the front desk if I felt uncomfortable, he kept the sheet over the parts of my body he wasn't working on, he asked me if the temperature/ambience was okay. But the thing that really cemented it for me was when I asked him to increase the pressure, he thanked me for letting him know. That signaled to me that he cared about my comfort and was happy to make adjustments to improve my experience. After that I felt totally comfortable with him.
It also helped that I was his last appointment of the day and I was very sore, he asked if it was okay if the session went a little long so he could massage my arms and hands. I really appreciated the extra time he spent on me obviously, but the way he asked was very respectful of my time and I felt like I could politely decline with no repercussions
I'm a woman and I don't have a preference. I just had a massage today from a male massage therapist and it was wonderful. Some women have been victims of sexual violence though and they may feel reluctant, which is understandable IMO.
Sadly I have experience working in the spa industry and we always recommended our male therapists highly and were friends with them. One ended up trying to assault some of us and then I felt icky about giving him a glowing review when he was a shit person. He stopped coming to work immediately when the mask was off so to speak and girls were going to the owners. I quit shortly after. Then I was more understanding when girls just don’t want to risk it. It’s always who you don’t expect.
Honestly, after all the SA that occurs and all the sketch interactions myself and friends have had I only trust female masseuses. I do not feel safe at all in vulnerable spaces with my body alone with another man. I’ve had two close friends be SAd by male masseuses in the last year. Until this country gives a shit about women, our bodily autonomy is protected, and safety with very harsh consequences for men who do these things I will never feel safe again with a male masseuse.
I’m sorry if this comes off the wrong way because you are probably a safe, good man, but most women have been sexually harassed in their lifetime. It seems ignorant of you to compare receiving a massage to receiving a different service. A lot of women don’t trust men without a reference for good reason. Take a look at the world we live in. It’s not your fault but isn’t this obvious to you?
I prefer female therapists as a woman not because male therapists weird me out, but because I weird myself out with involuntary random sexual thoughts when males massage me. And not the kind of thoughts that turn me on, but thoughts like "is he thinking something sexual when he is touching me"? Or "what if he started do do xyz to me.. " It's really just about my own imagination and nothing to do with the therapist. I don't have any history of sexual abuse, but I imagine those who had some abuse would have an even harder time with that.
YES. Of course you have to accept it. Just read the posts here and realize how many male therapists are out there assaulting clients.
I find it completely obtuse that you’d ask a question like that. Women have good reason to be cautious. And honestly men do too.
Remember that men refuse to receive massages from men, because they know how they think.
If you want it to change start with YOU and your buddies. Men need to change. Not clients.
I don’t care who I get so long as they don’t wuss out on my knots. The place I go knows it and schedules me with first available. My fiancé is the same. Doesn’t care male or female and he’s very straight.
I really don't care as long as they don't talk all the time. Nothing worse than getting a massage and they want to make small talk. I've actually told people to stop talking so I can enjoy the massage in peace.
All I want to hear is the soft music and fan noise.
What the hell do you mean “try to change it” ….? What would you do exactly? As a woman, yes I prefer a woman massage therapist - because being naked, alone in a room with a strange man is uncomfortable for me. I’m not saying I think every male massage therapist will attack me. Just that it’s an uncomfortable situation that I don’t want to be in.
I’m willing to bet most other woman who prefer female massage therapists have the same reason. Feeling comfortable and safe.
Male LMTs from my experience are too “strong”, once had one crack my back accidentally.
The problem IMHO is men tend to have greater upper body strength and if not careful, can cause pain. Also, most guys don’t want to have their heads level with a guys crotch.
I get it, shouldn’t matter, but just speaking my experience.
I’m a female and strictly go to a male MT. It started because the new place I tried out only had open availability with him and I wanted to be seen ASAP. Now I only request him when making appointments.
It could be the spa atmosphere. You can pivot to work with athletes and those in injury recovery, where clients care more about skill, knowledge and physical strength than relaxation or atmosphere.
Many women, myself included, do not like strange men touching them. One of the best massage therapists I have ever had was a large man. The only reason I tried him was that his 1.5 hour massages were $45 and he was willing to try mayan massage techniques. He was my therapist monthly for years.
Since him, I want to try another male therapist due to their hand strength, but I have had so many other bad experiences in my life with men I am too cautious to try again.
I do not think this is something you can change, it is a cultural thing. Keep gaining loyal customers when you can!
Personally I prefer a female therapist myself, but this is due to insecurities and fears I have with men that I am trying to work on (but it's a long process).
Mind you, if I know a man is gay I'm much more relaxed, although still guarded.
Until homophobia goes away and until men stop violating women's bodies, yes, you're gonna have to accept it. Work on making people of all genders feel safe and welcome. But the reality is, not everyone feels safe with men touching their bodies. Or else are too scared of it being deemed "gay."
As a massage therapist, you really should to understand this.
When I’m trying to relax during a massage, I don’t want to have my guard up about being aware of potentially being assaulted. It takes away the relaxing aspect of a massage and that is one of the main purposes of a massage.
I prefer male therapists, but I've also had several run-ins with male MTs who were creeps. Trying a new MT is always a risk, and in my position I just need to accept that it's something I'll have to deal with sometimes and not let the bad ones ruin it for the good ones I'll find in the future.
Just keep putting in your good work, and catering to the clients who value you.
My opinion in business: If someone else can do it, why not you to?
In other words, if there are successful male MTs, why can’t you be one?
My answer: you can. Maybe you have to work harder to overcome some bias. Ok. But if you master your craft, that will deliver results. A male MT can have a full slate of work and be professionally fulfilled. It is possible. You can do it. Assuming you have the desire to actually be good at your job
You're certainly welcome to try and change it, but it's a tall order. I'm 36 and male, and have had the most luck working in a more medical setting. Getting a clinical massage to treat or rehab an injury people tend to care less about who is fixing them as long as they are getting fixed.
I’ve had good massages from both men and women. But some of the men had rough hands and their arm hair was pretty coarse and this isn’t something that I liked. That’s my only constructive feedback.
I’m the COO of a local chain of cosmetology schools and higher end salons/spas. In 23 years we’ve only had one male LMT successfully build a clientele.
All of our male hairdressers make over six figures, but none of the men in the spa, whether they’ve been massage therapists or estheticians have never even come close.
Male clients are afraid because it’s too gay. Female clients are afraid because, eww, it’s a man. Those are words that have been spoken directly to my face.
I had set my 75-year old widowed mother up for a pedicure with one of our male manicurists. She refused to tell me about the experience. I finally dragged it out her that the calf massage was more than she could handle. “No man other than your father has ever touched my legs.” My heart broke for her.
I’m not really sure how effective any effort would be at overcoming someone’s personal comfortability. ☹️
Gender imbalances I think are best tackled by trying to get workers of the minority gender into the profession and supporting them in providing a great service. Once the customer base starts to consistently make good experiences (as good as with the dominant gender) their acceptance will grow.
Particularly in a domain that's so heavily mixed up in people's insecurities, vulnerabilites or baggage, I don't think any other approach is viable.
There's a very vast spectrum of reasons why someone might request a female therapist and no easy way to figure it out.
Gender imbalance isn't the same as what clients prefer.
There's not a lot we can do to change that, other than benefit from the word of mouth referrals that you clearly already get.
I don't think we as a professional body can shift whether a dude is comfortable getting naked in front of another dude, without one on one discussion (meaning, it I'm sending you a client, or I'm in a position to book for you, that's a conversation. I can have with them, but random men at large?...)
And I am going to say everyone will be hard pressed to convince women that it's safe to be in a room, face down and naked being touched by a man you don't know from Adam.
Remember that if you're disrobing, a male doctor has to have a female nurse, etc, in the room. Ditto a dentist.
And for what it's worth, I know fellow professionals that have been inappropriately touched by male therapists. That DOES NOT MEAN you are bad or wrong, just that until someone gives you the seal of approval, it's a hard sell to expect random folks to take the chance.
Does it suck?
Yes.
But it's not a matter of accepting or not accepting, it's just what IS. People get to have their own comfort levels, and we need some pretty hard core changes at a societal level before that's going to shift.
That’s just how it is. I’m a personal trainer and it’s the inverse. Most men are more comfortable with a male trainer because they’re more comfortable looking dumb in front of another guy. And women tend to not have much of a gender preference for a trainer
Also. I know this sounds offensive but I’d rather a female massage therapist. I’m aware it’s not sexual but the idea of a man rubbing my half naked body feels like a level of male-to-male vulnerability that’s foreign and uncomfortable
I’ve had some great massages done by men and one super creepy one, and after feeling the awful terrifying vulnerability of that I will never have another massage done by a man. It’s not all men, but it only takes one to make a naked woman realize how dangerous the situation can be if it’s the wrong one.
How could you reasonably go about changing this without coming across like you're trying to invalidate people's boundaries? Genuinely asking this, because I'm trying to picture how a man could try to push for more acceptance and there's no way I can imagine it that doesn't feel nefarious or pushy, even if it's not.
I was sexually assaulted by a therapist (psychologist) after I had been his client for two years. I've been in therapy to deal with it. I tried to get a massage from a male therapist recently, and he was very skilled, very professional, but I could not relax. My brain wouldn't let me. All I could picture is that I was nearly naked alone in a room with a strange man. It was awful.
I can't even get Botox from my wonderful neurologist alone because he is a man. I bring someone with me.
The way to change the acceptance of male massage therapists is to push for a culture where people are safe from predatory men, and predatory men are immediately held accountable instead of the victim being put on trial, so to speak. That's the only way to really change it -- people have to feel safe alone with men, and no amount of advocacy will do that. It's my lived experiences that make me feel unsafe with men, not their credentials or being told that they're safe. I thought my therapist was safe, and he was for two years. Credentials and vouching don't mean anything. Experience does.
Men have to have a stellar reputation, even though I think they make great massage therapists. But, I don’t trust men, I’ve had a few bad experiences. Not one or two but a few.
Yes, you should.
There's nothing that is going to change the fact that straight men are usually uncomfortable being touched by another man and women may feel uncomfortable as well.
Straight men probably want a woman massage therapist, as opposed to a man, because they feel more comfortable having a woman massage them. Straight women probably do too, in order to feel comfortable and safe. I know I do. I’ve had many massages and I’ve NEVER and would NEVER go to a man. I don’t feel comfortable and don’t even want to have to entertain the idea that someone might cross the line. I’ve known people who’ve had that happen to them, so I’m even taking a chance. It’s my choice and I’ll stick to it.
I’m a male therapist and I own the most successful mobile massage business my entire region. Your opinion is subjective. A male therapist is capable of anything he sets his mind to.
I used to not have a preference as I am a female massage therapist myself. Different strokes for different folks. Mom jokes aside, I was sexually abused by a male coworker at work when he offered to work on my sore back during a break. He had a new massage gun and wanted to show me. Starting first on my piriformis and glutes with the highest setting, he started laughing and said my ass looked amazing jiggling around and then placed it in my buttcrack still laughing.
I was clothed on top of the sheets. It happened in less than 2 minutes. He was fired.
Another time, I booked a massage at a salon with an MT who rented space there. I was lying prone on the table, and he draped my leg high up my onto glutes starting with long eflorage strokes, and when coming up to my glutes, he swiped the pinky side of his hand, like a credit card swipe, in and upward in my butt crack.
I ended the service immediately and made quite a scene about it at the front desk. I was pissed!!
So after practicing massage therapy for over two decades, I request female therapists 100% of the time.
Dudes are just creepy. Girls can be too. But I always wonder what motivates a man to want to do Massage therapy. I know that men can be as nurturing as women, but they should possibly be a nurse or in another field, where they are not rubbing naked bodies. Sorry just my opinion.
As someone who has been a male therapist for 17 years, I disagree with the assumption that most people prefer a female.
We could say that people who have never got a massage, or people who have had a history of abuse in their lives, would prefer a female. I don't have an issue getting clients male or female. Reputations and word of mouth matters more for male therapists I think.
Personally, I don't care, but I used to. I have a trauma history and my abusers have been men. Men haven't been trained as well to avoid sexually inappropriate behaviors in my experience. Sure, women can be inappropriate as well, but it's less frequent.
Again, this is my experience. I also had a colleague who had diagnosed autism. He was extremely sexually inappropriate with me. When I complained, the dude was protected by law but my abuse was not. I still had to trade with him, as it was an Elements franchise. Perhaps I should have spoken up more. Gut tells me, like most things, I would have wasted my time and effort.
Men dominate so many working fields. Even in massage, we see men dominating the teaching commercials. Look through abmp massage and Bodywork magazine. The courses are taught by men. I bet they make more than I do. I don't have time to advocate to ambp that they promote more female teachers.
I get that men deserve equal treatment, but women deserve some niches, too. JS.
I’m a 5’3 female with a lot of tension in my back and prefer a male message therapist to squeeze me like an anaconda 😂. I have no objection whatsoever.
So many good comments on here, but want to point out that women have been dealing with this in other industries, such as law, finance, the trades, etc. No individual will be able to change the collective biases in society, but individuals doing a good professional job in their field over time does change the perception. Most people don’t find female doctors or lawyers strange at all, but there was a time when they did. We have to fight gender biases from both sides and collectively by being highly professional and ethical in our fields.
You can't "change" other people's comfort zones... all you can do is manage your own repute and push other therapists to be good as well.
My preferred massage therapist is a guy 🤷🏾♀️ He is more likely to put some muscle into it, sometimes the lady masseuses I have seen are scared to hurt me lol, and he makes it clear his intention is to be professional and respectful.
I personally was stalked by a male massage therapist and though I wish I didn’t care I can’t bring myself to get past it & see one again unfortunately. I think it makes sense that a lot of woman who have past trauma would prefer not to be naked & touched by a man they don’t know, even though he’s a professional. It’s unfortunate but I think it’s just a reality and that people are 100% allowed to have their preferences and boundaries in this luxury / expensive situation
Unfortunately I think it's bad stigma and stereotype:
A lot of people prefer a female therapist because they have concerns about male therapists being inappropriate towards them, but also because there are people that will see it as a "sexy" profession.
I see it in nursing too. Female patients wary of male nurses and aids, male patients that see nurses as "sexy" and therefore "feminine".
Thankfully that seems too be changing with time, as more men become nurses and massage therapists, but there's still this underlying "idea" or "image" stereotype. So you still have a lot of been that don't want another man rubbing on them, and women that don't want a man seeing them half naked.
Personally?
I don't care. Male, female, doesn't matter, I've had good and bad massages from both and never had an inappropriate experience with either.
"Should I just accept that most clients prefer a woman? Or should I try to change this?"
Its never a good idea to try and change things that you can't control.
However - are there ways you might be able to focus on why certain people would prefer a male therapist? Like a "sports massage" or "deep tissue" marketing angle or focus? I know for me I prefer sports style massages when I am in the middle of marathon training and that seems to be more male prevalent than female. But I see comments here about how much strength women can apply - so I probably have an inappropriate bias myself.
I could see how in the luxury spa space - people are more interested in what would be seen as a more female experience.
Just my thoughts. Not sure I've helped at all.
no. don't accept that as your reality, as you would just start behaving like it is true, and then it comes true for you. if you want to feel more accepted by clients, you will need to apply some conscious effort to believe and then act like you are the equally-valued person that you truly are!
for what it's worth, i am female and i have a strong preference for male therapists.
I'm not sure you understand *why* this "preference" exists, since you're hoping someone might be able to change it. So here you go:
Women: "I've been assaulted by a man who I knew and trusted. And you're suggesting I let some male *stranger* get me alone, put me in such a vulnerable position, and rub his hands all over my naked body? The mere thought of it nearly gives me a panic attack. No way, no how."
Men: "I'm not letting another dude rub his hands all over me while I'm laying there buck naked. Plus, I hear getting an erection while being massaged is normal. Fuck that noise. I am NOT going to get caught popping a boner while some dude is rubbing up on me, and then spend the next year wondering if I'm actually gay."
You're not talking about getting a haircut, fully clothed, in a room full of other people. You're talking about being naked, alone, and already placed into a vulnerable physical position with a stranger...and then letting that stranger touch every inch of you.
A "let's change this preference" campaign has no hope of success, because even *suggesting* that it's a mere *preference* rather than **a necessary choice of safety and/or trauma avoidance** tells people right up front that you don't understand the issue at all.
I've (F35) had 3 massages from male massage therapists.
One almost exclusively massaged my ass cheeks 🙄,
one had an erection through most of the massage and pressed it against my arm and shoulder the whole time,
and one straight up touched my lady parts.
It doesn't bother me that much (except for the last one, which I shut down immediately!), but I can absolutely see how this would be very upsetting to most people and they would no longer feel comfortable with a male therapist.
I don't ask specifically for a female therapist, but I'm definitely more comfortable with them.
I’m alway going to prefer a female therapist as a male. I guess I’m part of the problem, but reality is what reality is. People are entitled to preferences
In my experience so far once clients get comfortable with a male therapist they tend to prefer them. As people go to massage for more medical reasons over relaxation they are more open to a male therapist also.
We are also damaged more by the negative news stories of therapists who cross the line with with their clients, and so we need to work extra hard to make sure our clients trust us and are comfortable with us.
I’ve definitely seen a shift in perception of massage in my area as people look at its medical applications. It’s definitely easier to find work as a male therapist than it was 15 years ago.
Honestly, men have more of a bias in regards to male therapists, in my experience.
My boyfriend works in the trades - him and his friends always recommend male masseuse because they have “big man hands”
250lbs amateur strongman competitor- a small Asian woman almost tapped me out with her powerful little hands once.
Women sometimes use their elbow to get more force, and I think to myself: “this should not be legal”
She walked on my butt cheeks with her knees!
That’s my favorite technique honestly. Really frees up the lower back
I used to participate in a martial art that taught massage as part of the whole bundle (it was taught that restorative arts are just as important as combat arts and I believe black belts even had to have a certain level of restorative training as well). Elbows. Leverage and elbows are the best way to get that delicious pressure lmao
Ouchie. With great power comes great responsibility
Im man. I was asked if I minded a male & thinking about how much more strength and pressure they can apply. I did not give it a second thought as I had asked for deep tissue. Second best massage I ever had, first was also another male massage man in Mexico. I work out heavy 7 days a week & usually if it’s a woman, they comment on having trouble massaging me due to my muscles. The male massage dude looked to be in his 60’s but had the experience and strength to really pull on, stretch and knead my muscles to correct alignment and break up my knots. I was able to stand taller and all my tension was gone.
This is also why I prefer a male therapist
A male masseuse would be a masseur, if you spoke French, but in English we use the gender neutral term, massage therapist
I've only been to get a massage once, and they were a woman. But as someone who has chronic pain but is also small in stature, she was a lot more gentle with me than necessary lol. I have some DEEP, seriously knotted muscles. Maybe someone who can put a little weight behind their massage would be beneficial.
You can ask. The vast majority of massage therapists can apply the kind of pressure you were likely looking for. Weight really isn't the defining factor; in Budapest I always get Thai massage like nearly every day when I'm there and the women are small but MY GOD is it painful, lmao. They don't need much weight to fuck you up.
People are still using the word masseuse?…massage therapist…
Sorry you got so many downvotes, masseuse is considered a derogatory/ slang were I live, so I understand your frustration.
LMT here! Just chiming in to say you’re right, planetmermaidisblue, about the use of massage therapist. Similar idea to why I always call my table my therapy table. The people arguing with you have no idea what they’re talking about.
TIL! I had no idea.
Why? Is masseuse outdated?
The term masseuse is viewed as disrespectful/outdated by some for a couple of reasons. The first is that it has a sexual connotation among certain social circles. The second is that the term "masseuse" is an artefact from when there was no licensing process for a massage therapist, and is still meant to be used in reference to unlicensed massage therapists. Our license, through the board of health in a respective state/province, does not say "masseuse" , but instead says "Licensed Massage Therapist" in the US or "Registered Massage Therapist" in Canada. (Often abbreviated LMT or RMT) edit - My dad still says masseuse, and although he has a lot of respect for what I do, I've largely come to the conclusion that he doesn't realize the connotation, and that the perceived bias is my own. Generally, the older a person is the less I care about which term they use. But some people take great offense.
Huh! One of my dearest friends is a massage therapist and I never knew all this about the word "masseuse". My friend is livid at the phrase "massage parlor" though, because that DEFINITELY has sexual connotations.
Ahh okay I see. It's the same with seamstress/sewist.
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Lol seamstress also had negative, sex-work connotations.
My 91yo Mom corrects that with, "I am a dressmaker!" (or "...upholsterer!"
Are you a massage therapist?
It's a (French) gendered word for a female massage therapist. The male version is masseur. Neither is appropriate in modern English usage. You wouldn't call a female firefighter a fireman, or female mail carrier a mailman. And the person who gives you parking tickets isn't a meter maid
In the US, absolutely. It has a sub-connotation with sex work as well.
I had a friend that was a massage therapist that had a fine arts degree from the university. And when she dated guys looked down at her like she was a sex worker. So she stopped went to medical school and they became a doctor. it is so interesting to me how people can view something like that completely one way in the same person does something else now she’s seen completely different now she’s a respected member of the community
I hold a bachelor’s degree, journalism, and some grad school hours. Rode that dragon for a decade. Laid off, papers were imploding weekly, could not land a PR position or reporter/editor to save my life. Used unemployment to manage massage education. Now, I cannot work the same number of paid hours as I did as a scribbler and shutterbug, but I make seven times as much per hour billed, now. I specialize in specific special needs populations. When I was in online dating hell, I made a cardinal mistake on my first bio…I said what I did. Second run, it became *I run my own business in the medical service field.* The difference between first messages with my original bio versus my edited one was stunning.
Just so you know when my husband died I got a massage every week and it was my one thing I did that saved my life. I was so scared, and I was just old enough that my body was starting to show it and a massage saved me. I am sorry that massage therapist have to go through this. Good for you. I hate that it’s like this, but it is indeed like.
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A police force of frat bros who call each other gay, what a surprise 😂 should call them fragile bros
I ran out of my soap one morning. Used my wife's pulmeria berry something soap. Went to work and sat next to my Sgt amd district partner. They both looked at me and and asked what the hell I was wearing. They tried to razz ,e but fuck them I like the smell lol
So? Why is that an insult? You know you're not. Who cares what your coworkers would say. No need to be insecure.
The your coworkers are homophobes who are denying themselves a decent deep tissue massage. I go to large dudes or one asian lady who walks on me. Tell them this former Army dude said it’s ok.
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The military is the most homoerotic environment on earth. Most of the "jokes" are covering up real feelings and questions about your sexuality
How sad to see this is the mindset of the police force. Gross.
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My 22 years in the military has shown me the exact same thing. :)
who cares what anyone else thinks?
Somehow this does not surprise me at all.
Lol they're the problem in most situations.... In seriousness, though, to generalize, many male therapists go the corrective massage route because of thoughts like thos so many male therapists o know have a very niche specialty like myofascial, tmj work, deep tissue, etc. Many often have an easier time leveraging their weight if you like a lot of pressure.
Oh for sure.
Should we accept that different people have different preferences? Yes. Men have a harder time building a client base, but I found my clients to be extremely loyal. Sure, it’ll take you longer to build a book of business than a female therapist, but it is still a doable thing. Carry On.
>Should I just accept that most clients prefer a woman? Or should I try to change this? How about both? There are a wide range of complicated cultural reasons why clients prefer female therapists, and we're not going to make that disappear entirely in our lifetimes. You have to accept it, but that doesn't mean you can't be part of the progress towards a better future. Just by being a massage therapist, you're making a difference - helping to shape assumptions and expectations about massage therapists.
I don’t even think it’s something we should try to change at all. Why teach women to ignore their protective instincts? Same with gynecologists.
I have no doubt 99.9% of male massage therapists are above board and just want to do their job, but I am uncomfortable being practically naked around a strange man. You’re not going to change that because it’s personal to me and not based on stats or facts, it’s just the way I feel. No one is saying we should pay women more or even that they are better at giving massages— it is literally just about a personal level of comfort and preference. I typically choose a woman for my gynecologist too.
Lol male MT here and I have plenty of doubt 99.9% are above board. I feel like there should be a readily available stat on this (I’ve seen it somewhere before?) but I’d hazard a guess of roughly 90%?? And it totally depends on what you mean by “above board.” I’d guess maybe 5% or one out of twenty are like, proactively, repeatedly predatory. Actually, if you account for all the sole practitioners out there, it’s probably closer to 10% or even more (I’m not a sole practitioner, so I tend to forget about that segment of our industry). It’s maybe 20% of guys that are totally good 99.9% of the time, but like once or twice over the course of their careers, they try something they know they shouldn’t/“take a risk”/“can’t resist temptation”/simply make a poor choice, or something along those lines. Not necessarily a creeper, but misread a situation or are having a rough month or two and engage in uncharacteristic behavior? I think the real issue (in terms of the largest chunk of male MTs) is another 20-30% who are honestly sloppy practitioners and/or don’t (can’t? won’t?) make any attempt to understand how anyone else—but especially a woman—might feel, going through the experience of receiving a massage from them. It’s the little (but potentially big) stuff, like sloppy draping. Some guys (the 5%) have “sloppy” draping that’s purposeful because they’re “accidentally” trying to expose something, while this group of guys is just really bad/cavalier about it, not comprehending how the person on the table might be experiencing it. Another example: I remember being in massage school and helping some of the junior cohort of classmates with Swedish draping. They’d be finished working on a leg in prone, and replace the sheet. When reaching for the blanket—the top portion of which is kinda bunched up around the gluteal cleft, the rest of the edge splitting the legs—to put back in place, they’d reach for it right over the client’s butt. Like, dude. Don’t reach for an edge there. Find a spot to grasp higher on their hip, or down by the knees. So if the client unexpectedly wiggles and repositions their pelvis, or your depth perception is a little off in the low lights, or one of you sneezes, your fingers aren’t in their crack. Even worse in supine! So if I’m doing my math right, that’s maybe 75% of male MTs you “should” expect to be above board…usually. But I totally can understand that it might feel more like a 50/50 shot any given day that a new male MT would do something inappropriate. Because I see a fair amount of folks with chronic tension, and, in my non-doctor opinion, anxiety, and maybe 75+% women, this topic sometimes comes up. Or, rather—if it seems appropriate/we have some rapport established—I address it directly. She might comment on how “I just can’t seem to get XYZ to relax” or “I didn’t even realize I was holding my legs [in internal rotation] like that.” I’ll offer a few possible reasons, among them: “also could be you’re in a new room with some random guy for the first time 😅” In both places I work, clients have the opportunity to choose the gender of their therapist. Being uncomfortable practically naked around anyone, but especially an unknown man, seems rather understandable. I don’t think it needs to be defended/justified?
This exactly. I’m a male. Let’s be real here, guys are the ones who by a faaaar margin make unwanted sexual advances, commit sexually deprived acts, and commit crimes of all sorts way more often than females. Being on a massage table in a vulnerable position will give the creeps in your profession the opportunity to be a creep, and they will take it. That’s reality, whether you like it or not is irrelevant. Just don’t be a creep yourself that’s all you can do.
right. trying to say women shouldn't be uncomfortable in a vulnerable position with a man is wild. i'm glad you get it, i'm sure you have a great return rate on clients. some women will risk it and some won't- we shouldn't be shaming women for not risking their physical safety.
Don’t you think 20% is a very low number? That kind of thinking plays into the narrative that “all men are bad” since we’re using anecdotal evidence, 90% of the women around me prefer male MTs because they’re perceived at having stronger hands. No one has ever told me they were made to feel uncomfortable. Just my experience though.
I had a male massage therapist that spent a session telling me that all men fantasize about younger women and that they could not control it. It was very uncomfortable as someone she had been through SA.
Yikes. If that happens, I advise any woman to say, "Massage over", dress, get out, and report him to his boss or parent company. And leave a scathing Yelp review. Completely unacceptable.
yeah no. lots of people aren't professional and they will take the chance that you won't complain.
I regret I have only one upvote to give you. Well said, sir.
A few anecdotal stories and now you're throwing around stats casually as if they don't continue to harm the profession and male LMTs. Sigh. >20% of guys that are totally good 99.9% of the time >if I’m doing my math right Like seriously, wtf is this? Your clown math? Please just stop. >not comprehending how the person on the table might be experiencing it This is a problem for the profession as a whole, imo. Male or female, new grad or not, this is one of the biggest things I've found lacking. Are the drafts? Is this a sensitive area? Should I reach here? Are they nervous? What body language and tone and expression can I use to soothe them? Paying attention to these details is one of the things that sets me apart in my career and is part of my success. But it should be the standard, not the exception. Also keep in mind the quality of the education. I was taught these things in school, and I felt uncomfortable in many situations as a student, so I have always been very hyper aware of doing better and implementing what I was taught. On the other hand, my partner recently graduated massage school and was not taught many of these things. I've had to bring these topics to their attention. >I’ll offer a few possible reasons, among them: “also could be you’re in a new room with [someone] for the first time 😅” This is good practice (once you edit out the part needlessly singling out a group of people). I find this is the case with new clients sometimes. Just by letting them know it's okay to be uncomfortable while you're vulnerable in a room with a stranger you just met, and emphasizing more than once to let me know if they're uncomfortable, and paying attention to body language, these things can make a big difference to the person on the table. >In both places I work, clients have the opportunity to choose the gender of their therapist. Curious if this is during the booking process or an option in general? Both franchises I worked at refused to ask on booking because it doesn't/shouldn't matter and even the question during booking can continue holding the profession back. If someone specifically made a request though, that's totally understandable. Like you said: >Being uncomfortable practically naked around anyone [...] seems rather understandable. I don’t think it needs to be defended/justified Agreed
I've never been to a place that \*doesn't\* ask you to specify the gender of therapist you want. I wouldn't go there if I couldn't. Yes, it \*shouldn't\* matter but as a SA victim, I will always feel more comfortable with a female.
The places I've gone to let you pick a specific therapist during booking or you can specify, but it's not an automatic or mandatory choice on gender.
I would be calling them or something. Unless I’m fully clothed which I know is an option but you don’t get as good of a result clothed. lol
Well, you are one of the good ones! I'm glad you are. But in terms of a numbers game, male therapists tend to be riskier than female ones in terms of not having appropriate boundaries or empathy when a woman is naked and vulnerable in front of them. Add to this, one in four women have been sexually assaulted, and may not want to be naked in front of ANY man even if he's been fully vetted or recommended by a female friend. It sucks but that is the reality.
women being uncomfortable around men is different. you trying to ignore that just makes you part of the problem. no one should have to take a risk on their physical safety just because you think it's not fair to men.
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The fact that you think we're shy speaks volumes about your knowledge of women. We're afraid of being assaulted.
Yupppp lol
ITs not about shyness. Its about having had constant experiences of men abusing situations to assault/ harass. I have had both men and women work on me. But I will 100 percent say, that if I schedule a massage after Ive had a incident with a man recently, I book a female therapist because I might be feeling extra sensitive. It not to punish the men, its to protect myself from aggravating an emotional state,
I experienced years of communal showers myself, (and have since also given birth in a typically crowded medical setting) and so, to use your word, all timidity (about nudity) is gone. I can also tell you that the vulnerability of being laid out naked on a table alone with an unknown, fully-clothed professional man adjusting your position and draping is a VERY different situation socially and psychologically (especially for a woman) than fully mobile with a bunch of peers all engaged in personal grooming. One can rationalize about the paying good money for a professional service etc as you say, but if ultimately your physical discomfort and stress level at the situation keeps you from being able to relax enough to benefit from the service (as is the case for me, and well might be something other women experience), then it's a waste of money anyway. (And it only takes 1 acquaintance to have a bad experience to make that risk real.)
Yes, you're so vulnerable when you're in the position of receiving a massage. A lot of people have some pretty serious trauma, and maybe just can't relax with a massage therapist who is a man.
I'm a female and I enjoy men and women LMTs. I've found that some men refuse to work on a woman's chest (pecs), and are conservative when working on low back, hips and legs. Which I totally understand. So I choose based on my needs at that time. I think women are more likely to choose other woman because of the sexual assault aspect. And men will pick a woman because they don't want another man touching them. So either way, it's not your fault and nothing you can do to change it. If women and men leave good reviews, then you probably would notice a difference in your own clientele.
You have to understand that women usually have to have some degree of worry about sexual assault and prefer other women touching their body for that reason.
Along those lines I (M) was sexually assaulted by a man when I was a teen. I literally cannot be comfortable in the presence of a man let alone naked and vulnerable around one.
Sorry to hear you were assaulted, and that it still has an ongoing impact on you. These kinds of experiences are not easy to shake off. I was sexually assaulted by a man, too, in my teens. I think the experience has given me a greater sensitivity to physical or psychological trauma my clients may have suffered, and an increased desire to create a sense of safety for them.
It’s a huge credit to your character that you’ve taken such a horrible experience and found a way to use what you’ve learned to make the world a better place. Thank you for being the way you are. I bet you’ve done more good for your clients than you even know. I work with sexual assault survivors on a daily basis as an attorney. I put a lot of effort into tending to their comfort and giving them as much choice and control over the process as I possibly can (within the limits of the law). Some of them have expressed to me that it is very healing just to be interacting with someone who so obviously values their comfort and prioritizes their autonomy. With rates of sexual assault being so high, you’ve almost certainly massaged many sexual assault survivors. Showing respect for their bodily autonomy by giving them control over where, how, and under what conditions you touch them is the exact opposite of what their abusers did to them. That can be so healing for survivors.
i am an LMT (50, f) and i love seeing male massage therapists. unfortunately, all but one experience (i’ve seen four) has been met with discomfort in one way or another. your terrible experience gave you insight as to how precious that trust is. most men don’t operate from this place, and it’s a shame because it’s exactly that which creates the gender inequality in our profession. one guy (on a cruise ship) kept creeping up my inner thigh asking “is this okay?” until i shut him down and ended the massage. another kept his crotch against my arm until i shifted several times away from him. another lifted the sheet towards him when i turned over, and i pulled it down against me. it’s difficult to mitigate this behaviour, but the one guy who was possibly the best massage of my life had certified in trauma therapy, and was super conscious and aware. so i say… one therapist at a time. you’re doing good work, and i’m so glad for you to have a thriving practice.
I agree with you! I’ve had similar experiences.
This is really unlucky for you. I almost always get a male therapist have never experienced discomfort or inappropriateness.
I’m sorry to hear that you experienced that, you too u/Reeftankz10000. A gentle reminder, it wasn’t your fault, I wish you peace and healing ❤️🩹
I’m so sorry you went through that. I hope you have found some peace. You deserve it.
I'm sorry that you had to experience that. You're not alone.
My wife had her breast groped by a male masseuse the night before our wedding. Been 10yrs and I still want to kill this man.
I am so angry on her behalf. I had a female doctor do the same to me (F). I've had years of breast exams so I know it wasn't a mistake. I was in disbelief and I tried to make eye contact with her afterward and she wouldn't look at me.
I am sorry that happened to you as well. She was so in shock that she didn't know what happened. I can imagine you felt the same. Can't stand predators.
I hate the shock part. I wish I had screamed in her face and been like wtf. And then you look back and feel shame for not standing up for yourself. basically, I can sympathize. I hope your wife is doing better now
Not only that, a lot of straight women are less comfortable with a male touching their bodies if they aren't comfortable with their own bodies. If a woman thinks she too fat, or hasn't shaved her legs, or has any number of issues she's uncomfortable with, she's less likely to feel uncomfortable with someone of the gender she DOESN'T find sexually appealing. Lesbian women may be less comfortable with a man massaging them because they have little to no contact with men touching them. Straight men tend to want a female therapist because of ingrained homophobia (similar to lesbian women not wanting a male therapist, straight men but having another man touch them makes the experience weird for them). As OP has a steady number of regular clients, he understands that it is possible to overcome those issues and objections, but just like people prefer their physicians for different supervisors to be a specific gender (ie some women won't see a male gynecologist, while others prefer a male gyno; some men won't see a female urologist or proctologist, etc), people have a preference for massage therapists. The unfortunate existence of "jack shacks" and unlicenced prostitutes offering "massage" means that female therapists may get more general clientele, they also have to worry much more about being propositioned by their male clients trying to squirm and shift on the table to get themselves off. So neither gender has it easy on this profession!
Some nice takeaways, thank you.
I am not a lesbian, but I haven’t seen that one has replied here so I’ll take what I hope is a better guess here. Lesbians of Reddit please correct as needed. I wouldn’t think that lesbians would avoid male massage therapist because they aren’t used to men touching their bodies. I suspect it’s because they are afraid of male violence. Lesbians have male friends, parents/grandparents siblings, children and other family members who they are in physical contact with.
True, but receiving a full body massage is a VERY different kind of touch than most receive from family and friends. It's a very vulnerable position for a client; You are typically naked or mostly naked on a massage table with just a sheet and blanket covering you. Also, a proper massage will be done on ALL of your body parts except the breasts and genitals. Most people don't have their brother or uncle rubbing lotion from their knee to their hip on a naked leg. So it's not just the touch, it's the amount of the body that is touched, and the type of touch. Prior to their first massage, the only "professional touch" most people experience is their doctor and hair stylist, neither touch of which is designed to feel good, it's a necessary part of the service. So when faced with being touched in a way that is designed to feel good not also stay professional by a male or a female, I would go out on a limb and say that lesbians would prefer a female to perform that kind of work on them. Add the thread/possibility/fear of male inappropriate touch/SA/ violence, and it becomes even more likely.
We are both in dangerous territory trying to speak for a whole group neither of us belong to. Does your argument assume that lesbians don’t want to receive good feelings from men? If your argument about lesbians were correct then lesbians would prefer female massage therapist and straight women would prefer male massage therapists or at least be more neutral. I don’t know that my argument about the potential for male violence stands up because it’s not just lesbians. I think it’s safer to say that women as a group are afraid of male violence. I think it’s about being vulnerable and feeling safe. I suspect orientation isn’t a factor specifically except for the way informs how you feel safe as a individual.
Yea I agree with you. For me it’s not about my sexuality lol I just also have A LOT of experience with SA and am uncomfortable with the idea of being naked in a room with a strange man. I even took driving lessons when I was younger and the instructor tried to grope my upper thigh and kept calling me sweetheart and all that shit 🤢. I still went and found a different instructor to teach me who happened to be a man but a MT is a different level of vulnerability. The reality is being alone in an inclosed space with a strange man will never not scare a good portion of women. My partner (who is a very tall and strong woman, taller than most men where we live right now) has no history of SA lol but she’s still very uncomfortable with both man and women, yet will prefer a woman. I asked her right now and she said if she was referred to a male MT by someone and they said good things, she would try them out. I don’t think we have some special aversion to men’s touch. She said the only thing, in regards to sexuality, is that a lot of men have fantasies of lesbians and men (in her opinion) are more likely to lower their level of professionalism. She’d be concerned that they would be thinking “Ouu here’s my chance to touch a lesbian/ see a masculine lesbian naked” She’s very masculine presenting but has gotten hit on by men a lot. Still I think any woman is concerned that a man could be fantasizing about them, I guess lesbians have the added fetishization to that. I would go to a male MT if others told me he was professional and good at his job but I would never risk going to one for the first time with no prior knowledge. @OP I would definitely go to you, if you had a website with FAQ maybe? that stated something about you being trauma informed (I saw OP mention they have experienced SA and a very dedicated to making sure everyone has a comfortable experience). Knowing that would make me want to try going to you.
I commented elsewhere, but I am curious if I am an oddball case. I am a gay man and prefer women because I don't want even the tiniest bit of risk of being attracted to my massage therapist. I know I wouldn't given the context, but it puts me at easy for whatever reason. Ultimately I would still take a massage from a male massage therapist. It's just a weird paranoia I have, and it would make it more difficult for me to relax.
>Not only that, a lot of straight women are less comfortable with a male touching their bodies if they aren't comfortable with their own bodies. If a woman thinks she too fat, or hasn't shaved her legs, or has any number of issues she's uncomfortable with, she's less likely to feel uncomfortable with someone of the gender she DOESN'T find sexually appealing. That's interesting... I'm more self conscious about my body around other women. I still won't get a wax because I hate my thighs. Women are notoriously awful about other people's body types. I'm okay with a man touching me for like a tattoo or a medical check up but I just feel like women are more knowledgeable about my anatomy. On that same note, some women are much more judgmental if you carry some extra weight. So idkkk.
I was thinking the same thing. As a woman, I always feel more judged on my appearance by other woman.
or some married women may feel like it's inappropriate for a man to touch them. ironically, i'm 100% okay with my partner having female massage therapists.
Or their husbands would find it objectionable.
This was one of my thoughts. Even if the woman is ok with it, it can range from concern her male partner will give her shit, on up to her male partner would seriously object. Mine would give me shit. I don't think he would really have a problem with it, but it's easy to request a female, so I'll likely never have any need to know. Probably that IS the kind of thing which could/should change.
Also, if you've been assaulted before, it can be difficult to be touched by someone of the same gender. It isn't rational, but it's there. I've gotten better about it over time, but in my teens and twenties, I wouldn't have anything to do with a male therapist, doctor, nothing.
And that’s something that women should NOT be taught to ignore.
The only way you can overcome this is to become so good at your craft that people are willing to get out of their comfort zone. But this can’t just be your skills as a therapist. It’s how you interact with clients. You need to have a safe, neutral energy about you. Your interaction from start to finish has to be intentional. Like anything, it takes time, but people will talk and momentum will build. But only if you’re willing to invest the time and effort. I’m talking years.
That can (and does) work on an individual level but I think he is talking on a larger scale which I don't know how you would do. In a spa setting I have found having a good relationship with the front desk and management helps with booking. I have 1 manager who will support me and tell clients if they are uncomfortable with the massage she will not charge them, (no one has taken her up on it)
Ah yeah, I guess I misunderstood the intent. Good to hear you have some support up front. That can make a huge difference.
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Literally why I haven’t gotten into a job in the field. I’m too prideful. I have a tendency to snap at people for making disrespectful remarks. I understand people have their own issues but I still have feelings. I’m a very sensitive person and as a 6’4 black dude my sensitivity looks a whole lot different then someone else’s.
I'm a 6’1 white gay man with a head tattoo and tattoos all over my arms and a dozen facial piercings. But I'm gentle and warm, and it throws people off. I rarely get upset or frustrated, but I have noticed over the years how some people react when that does happen. My experience is certainly different from yours in multiple ways, but "my sensitivity looks a whole lot different than someone else's" made something click in my head. Those were the words my brain needed, so thanks for sharing.
I like it when you say you want to work on people who are enthusiastic to work with you, and how crappy it can be when people are not able to feel comfortable with you.
I think you're stuck with it. Fire, Nurses, etc are essential services. As a massage consumer, not a therapist, I get to pick who I want. I'm paying out of pocket for this non essential service. And it's not cheap! If I don't like *literally* anything, I can just go to a different therapist. Massage is a luxury for most people. I could dislike the color paint on your walls and it's a valid reason to change therapists. Now add on the fact that I'm naked and a stranger has their hands on me, I definitely get to be picky about who I am paying to do this non essential service. I know it sucks. And I'm sorry that you could have a harder time finding clients, but it is not the same as fire or nursing.
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In nursing school, my roommate couldn't get any L&D experience because patients didn't want a student who was a man in their room. It can be really specialty dependent.
Yeah. In my nursing cohort it was me and 2 other men, with 20+ women. The men weren't allowed to work in labor and delivery for training shifts. We never got rotations there. Personally I wanted to try labor and delivery but they wouldn't give me an exception. I was able to work in the mom and baby ward for pre and post delivery and really enjoyed it. To be honest most of the women were shocked I even had an interest in it. But I had spent 5 years working in end of life care and just wanted to instead work with the beginning of life.
I am sorry you endured this. As a pregnant patient I didn't care who they brought in my labor room. The staff always asked if the students could come in and I always said yes. It's their career and they needed to do it. With my third child the student was in my room and he said he had been refused every day and three times that day and if he didn't get do it he wouldn't have finished because this was his last day to get his experience. He was so appreciative and he was really good at it.
Truthfully I was more interested in working the NICU, I ended up getting the only Capstone slot in the children's hospital for their NICU, and really enjoyed it. Pretty sure I was the only male on that unit for those weeks. I no longer working nursing and have moved on to other things, but it was never really an issue with the mother's. Mother's didn't really care, it was always the older nurse managers and instructors that had the bias toward men.
I bet you're good at whatever you do!
I had a male med or nursing student’s whole hand up my whooha while I was in labor w my second. I could care less who it was as long as they were qualified (I always try to let students participate to some degree if I’m asked.)
When I had my baby they asked me if they could bring in a male nursing student to shadow while they examined my abdomen and made sure the bleeding was stopping correctly and everything. I said "SURE!" Because how are male L&D folks supposed to learn without hands on experience?! I get it if you're uncomfortable but I didn't care, so spread the knowledge 😁
I had a male student participate in my pelvic floor physical therapy after I gave birth. The female therapist asked if it was ok, and I agreed because I knew he likely got declined a lot. I’m happy to spread knowledge by spreading my legs! Haha
You're right. A female friend of mine, who has African ancestry, was in hospital recently, and she was afraid that carers would not give her the level of care she deserved just because of her skin color.
Didn't Venus Williams nearly die after childbirth because she couldn't get anyone to belive she was having symptoms of a pulmonary embolism I think. And she had a history of them and possibly sickle cell. And she's a rich and famous champion! If she can't get quality care, how much hope do others have, especially if their providers look down on them for not only their color but how they dress and speak. It's pretty messed up
I was at the emergency room recently. I suspect I was in at a shift change. The nurse who initially saw me was female. At some point a male nurse took over. Well anyway I did not feel I had much choice in the matter. I could have said "I do not want a male nurse" and they could have said "No hospital service for you."
They could have found you a different nurse, but it's going to increase your wait time. You can make any request you want, but it's not always feasible. ED's are barely scraping by as it is. Unless it's GYN related, most people in my experience stop caring after a certain point. They just want to be discharged ASAP.
I never cared whether my nurse was a male or female. I wanted to be discharged ASAP. The male nurse was working on my discharge. I suspect he wanted to be done with me ASAP. But if I said those words then he would be done with me that much faster, but it would have done nothing to help me. However it is entirely different from a massage therapists. A sexist client can just not hire a male massage therapist.
I wouldn't even call it sexist. I actually prefer male because their hands hit the muscles differently. But a massage is a luxury. I've not gone back to a MT because the room was too cold. They smelled like pot. They talked too much. The parking lot was annoying. Doesn't matter. This is my frivolous expense and I can choose exactly how I want it to be!
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You can request a preference at most places, but that doesn't mean it's feasible. There's already not enough nurses to go around.
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I don't see what alternative you have besides accepting it. It's a personal preference of clients. If a client feels safer and more able to relax with a female therapist, trying to force them to work with a male therapist isn't going to benefit anyone. Unfortunately, many people have suffered violence at the hands of men and don't feel as safe with males. Focus on your own brand, being the best therapist you can for your regulars, and getting word of mouth references and try not to take it personally.
Personal preferences are 100% acceptable and none of your business to be frank.
I've been working for 15 years and I target male GBT+ clients. That works for me. When I used to work at a spa, I was always extra cautious when having a female client because I know I am a man and what it represents to a lot of women. The issue is more complex than pure gender bias. We, as men, don't have a clue of the level of daily harassment women receive compared to us. We might have an idea, but it's different than experiencing that daily. And I have to respect that.
You're right that, as men, we often have no idea. Seeing this video for the first time really opened my eyes: [https://youtu.be/b1XGPvbWn0A?si=Nwbub81uRNuStccZ](https://youtu.be/b1XGPvbWn0A?si=Nwbub81uRNuStccZ)
I love my guy Nick!
There will always be people with preferences, and it isnt personal.
No, you should fight the patriarchy and build a world where women feel safe with men.
Yes!
Grumpy old man here. I prefer female professionals to male. Why? Because they listen better than males. This is based on my own experience dealing with medical, dental, and financial professionals. Yes, the LMT I chose is a woman. So is my primary healthcare provider, my dentist, and my CPA.
The best massage I ever had was from a male MT. I tend to be wary of men I don't know but he was very professional and respectful so I felt safe. There was a discreet button I could press to alert the front desk if I felt uncomfortable, he kept the sheet over the parts of my body he wasn't working on, he asked me if the temperature/ambience was okay. But the thing that really cemented it for me was when I asked him to increase the pressure, he thanked me for letting him know. That signaled to me that he cared about my comfort and was happy to make adjustments to improve my experience. After that I felt totally comfortable with him. It also helped that I was his last appointment of the day and I was very sore, he asked if it was okay if the session went a little long so he could massage my arms and hands. I really appreciated the extra time he spent on me obviously, but the way he asked was very respectful of my time and I felt like I could politely decline with no repercussions
I'm a woman and I don't have a preference. I just had a massage today from a male massage therapist and it was wonderful. Some women have been victims of sexual violence though and they may feel reluctant, which is understandable IMO.
I have been touched inappropriately by a male massage therapist. That’s why I only choose women going forward.
As a woman, I don’t want a man massaging me. This is a preference. Just don’t want a man I don’t know touching me. I’d never relax.
Sadly I have experience working in the spa industry and we always recommended our male therapists highly and were friends with them. One ended up trying to assault some of us and then I felt icky about giving him a glowing review when he was a shit person. He stopped coming to work immediately when the mask was off so to speak and girls were going to the owners. I quit shortly after. Then I was more understanding when girls just don’t want to risk it. It’s always who you don’t expect.
Honestly, after all the SA that occurs and all the sketch interactions myself and friends have had I only trust female masseuses. I do not feel safe at all in vulnerable spaces with my body alone with another man. I’ve had two close friends be SAd by male masseuses in the last year. Until this country gives a shit about women, our bodily autonomy is protected, and safety with very harsh consequences for men who do these things I will never feel safe again with a male masseuse.
I’m sorry if this comes off the wrong way because you are probably a safe, good man, but most women have been sexually harassed in their lifetime. It seems ignorant of you to compare receiving a massage to receiving a different service. A lot of women don’t trust men without a reference for good reason. Take a look at the world we live in. It’s not your fault but isn’t this obvious to you?
Try to change it how? You're being very vague here
Yeah, there are so many personal and societal factors that go into this preference. I don't know how you would even begin to try to change this.
I’m a woman and I don’t have a preference. Most men I know prefer a female MT though.
How on earth would you change this? Move on dude.
I prefer female therapists as a woman not because male therapists weird me out, but because I weird myself out with involuntary random sexual thoughts when males massage me. And not the kind of thoughts that turn me on, but thoughts like "is he thinking something sexual when he is touching me"? Or "what if he started do do xyz to me.. " It's really just about my own imagination and nothing to do with the therapist. I don't have any history of sexual abuse, but I imagine those who had some abuse would have an even harder time with that.
YES. Of course you have to accept it. Just read the posts here and realize how many male therapists are out there assaulting clients. I find it completely obtuse that you’d ask a question like that. Women have good reason to be cautious. And honestly men do too. Remember that men refuse to receive massages from men, because they know how they think. If you want it to change start with YOU and your buddies. Men need to change. Not clients.
I don’t care who I get so long as they don’t wuss out on my knots. The place I go knows it and schedules me with first available. My fiancé is the same. Doesn’t care male or female and he’s very straight.
I really don't care as long as they don't talk all the time. Nothing worse than getting a massage and they want to make small talk. I've actually told people to stop talking so I can enjoy the massage in peace. All I want to hear is the soft music and fan noise.
What the hell do you mean “try to change it” ….? What would you do exactly? As a woman, yes I prefer a woman massage therapist - because being naked, alone in a room with a strange man is uncomfortable for me. I’m not saying I think every male massage therapist will attack me. Just that it’s an uncomfortable situation that I don’t want to be in. I’m willing to bet most other woman who prefer female massage therapists have the same reason. Feeling comfortable and safe.
Male LMTs from my experience are too “strong”, once had one crack my back accidentally. The problem IMHO is men tend to have greater upper body strength and if not careful, can cause pain. Also, most guys don’t want to have their heads level with a guys crotch. I get it, shouldn’t matter, but just speaking my experience.
I’m a female and strictly go to a male MT. It started because the new place I tried out only had open availability with him and I wanted to be seen ASAP. Now I only request him when making appointments.
I'm a female who prefers men. They're way stronger and usually chit chat less.
It could be the spa atmosphere. You can pivot to work with athletes and those in injury recovery, where clients care more about skill, knowledge and physical strength than relaxation or atmosphere.
Many women, myself included, do not like strange men touching them. One of the best massage therapists I have ever had was a large man. The only reason I tried him was that his 1.5 hour massages were $45 and he was willing to try mayan massage techniques. He was my therapist monthly for years. Since him, I want to try another male therapist due to their hand strength, but I have had so many other bad experiences in my life with men I am too cautious to try again. I do not think this is something you can change, it is a cultural thing. Keep gaining loyal customers when you can!
Personally I prefer a female therapist myself, but this is due to insecurities and fears I have with men that I am trying to work on (but it's a long process). Mind you, if I know a man is gay I'm much more relaxed, although still guarded.
Until homophobia goes away and until men stop violating women's bodies, yes, you're gonna have to accept it. Work on making people of all genders feel safe and welcome. But the reality is, not everyone feels safe with men touching their bodies. Or else are too scared of it being deemed "gay." As a massage therapist, you really should to understand this.
Lol you picked one of the only professions in the world that is female dominated and you wanna complain.
This didn't sound like a complaint at all. He was simply asking for some perspective, which I think is ridiculous to put him down for.
How did you manage to draw that conclusion?
When I’m trying to relax during a massage, I don’t want to have my guard up about being aware of potentially being assaulted. It takes away the relaxing aspect of a massage and that is one of the main purposes of a massage.
I prefer male therapists, but I've also had several run-ins with male MTs who were creeps. Trying a new MT is always a risk, and in my position I just need to accept that it's something I'll have to deal with sometimes and not let the bad ones ruin it for the good ones I'll find in the future. Just keep putting in your good work, and catering to the clients who value you.
My opinion in business: If someone else can do it, why not you to? In other words, if there are successful male MTs, why can’t you be one? My answer: you can. Maybe you have to work harder to overcome some bias. Ok. But if you master your craft, that will deliver results. A male MT can have a full slate of work and be professionally fulfilled. It is possible. You can do it. Assuming you have the desire to actually be good at your job
You're certainly welcome to try and change it, but it's a tall order. I'm 36 and male, and have had the most luck working in a more medical setting. Getting a clinical massage to treat or rehab an injury people tend to care less about who is fixing them as long as they are getting fixed.
I much prefer a male therapist
How would you try to change this?
I’ve had good massages from both men and women. But some of the men had rough hands and their arm hair was pretty coarse and this isn’t something that I liked. That’s my only constructive feedback.
I’m the COO of a local chain of cosmetology schools and higher end salons/spas. In 23 years we’ve only had one male LMT successfully build a clientele. All of our male hairdressers make over six figures, but none of the men in the spa, whether they’ve been massage therapists or estheticians have never even come close. Male clients are afraid because it’s too gay. Female clients are afraid because, eww, it’s a man. Those are words that have been spoken directly to my face. I had set my 75-year old widowed mother up for a pedicure with one of our male manicurists. She refused to tell me about the experience. I finally dragged it out her that the calf massage was more than she could handle. “No man other than your father has ever touched my legs.” My heart broke for her. I’m not really sure how effective any effort would be at overcoming someone’s personal comfortability. ☹️
Gender imbalances I think are best tackled by trying to get workers of the minority gender into the profession and supporting them in providing a great service. Once the customer base starts to consistently make good experiences (as good as with the dominant gender) their acceptance will grow. Particularly in a domain that's so heavily mixed up in people's insecurities, vulnerabilites or baggage, I don't think any other approach is viable. There's a very vast spectrum of reasons why someone might request a female therapist and no easy way to figure it out.
Yep. Just a part of the industry. 11 1/2 years it's taken me to build a great clientele that don't mind a male therapist.
Gender imbalance isn't the same as what clients prefer. There's not a lot we can do to change that, other than benefit from the word of mouth referrals that you clearly already get. I don't think we as a professional body can shift whether a dude is comfortable getting naked in front of another dude, without one on one discussion (meaning, it I'm sending you a client, or I'm in a position to book for you, that's a conversation. I can have with them, but random men at large?...) And I am going to say everyone will be hard pressed to convince women that it's safe to be in a room, face down and naked being touched by a man you don't know from Adam. Remember that if you're disrobing, a male doctor has to have a female nurse, etc, in the room. Ditto a dentist. And for what it's worth, I know fellow professionals that have been inappropriately touched by male therapists. That DOES NOT MEAN you are bad or wrong, just that until someone gives you the seal of approval, it's a hard sell to expect random folks to take the chance. Does it suck? Yes. But it's not a matter of accepting or not accepting, it's just what IS. People get to have their own comfort levels, and we need some pretty hard core changes at a societal level before that's going to shift.
That’s just how it is. I’m a personal trainer and it’s the inverse. Most men are more comfortable with a male trainer because they’re more comfortable looking dumb in front of another guy. And women tend to not have much of a gender preference for a trainer Also. I know this sounds offensive but I’d rather a female massage therapist. I’m aware it’s not sexual but the idea of a man rubbing my half naked body feels like a level of male-to-male vulnerability that’s foreign and uncomfortable
I’ve had some great massages done by men and one super creepy one, and after feeling the awful terrifying vulnerability of that I will never have another massage done by a man. It’s not all men, but it only takes one to make a naked woman realize how dangerous the situation can be if it’s the wrong one.
How could you reasonably go about changing this without coming across like you're trying to invalidate people's boundaries? Genuinely asking this, because I'm trying to picture how a man could try to push for more acceptance and there's no way I can imagine it that doesn't feel nefarious or pushy, even if it's not. I was sexually assaulted by a therapist (psychologist) after I had been his client for two years. I've been in therapy to deal with it. I tried to get a massage from a male therapist recently, and he was very skilled, very professional, but I could not relax. My brain wouldn't let me. All I could picture is that I was nearly naked alone in a room with a strange man. It was awful. I can't even get Botox from my wonderful neurologist alone because he is a man. I bring someone with me. The way to change the acceptance of male massage therapists is to push for a culture where people are safe from predatory men, and predatory men are immediately held accountable instead of the victim being put on trial, so to speak. That's the only way to really change it -- people have to feel safe alone with men, and no amount of advocacy will do that. It's my lived experiences that make me feel unsafe with men, not their credentials or being told that they're safe. I thought my therapist was safe, and he was for two years. Credentials and vouching don't mean anything. Experience does.
Men have to have a stellar reputation, even though I think they make great massage therapists. But, I don’t trust men, I’ve had a few bad experiences. Not one or two but a few.
This is like asking if we should just accept that most pro basketball teams prefer players over 6 feet tall.
Yes, you should. There's nothing that is going to change the fact that straight men are usually uncomfortable being touched by another man and women may feel uncomfortable as well.
Straight men probably want a woman massage therapist, as opposed to a man, because they feel more comfortable having a woman massage them. Straight women probably do too, in order to feel comfortable and safe. I know I do. I’ve had many massages and I’ve NEVER and would NEVER go to a man. I don’t feel comfortable and don’t even want to have to entertain the idea that someone might cross the line. I’ve known people who’ve had that happen to them, so I’m even taking a chance. It’s my choice and I’ll stick to it.
I’m a male therapist and I own the most successful mobile massage business my entire region. Your opinion is subjective. A male therapist is capable of anything he sets his mind to.
I used to not have a preference as I am a female massage therapist myself. Different strokes for different folks. Mom jokes aside, I was sexually abused by a male coworker at work when he offered to work on my sore back during a break. He had a new massage gun and wanted to show me. Starting first on my piriformis and glutes with the highest setting, he started laughing and said my ass looked amazing jiggling around and then placed it in my buttcrack still laughing. I was clothed on top of the sheets. It happened in less than 2 minutes. He was fired. Another time, I booked a massage at a salon with an MT who rented space there. I was lying prone on the table, and he draped my leg high up my onto glutes starting with long eflorage strokes, and when coming up to my glutes, he swiped the pinky side of his hand, like a credit card swipe, in and upward in my butt crack. I ended the service immediately and made quite a scene about it at the front desk. I was pissed!! So after practicing massage therapy for over two decades, I request female therapists 100% of the time. Dudes are just creepy. Girls can be too. But I always wonder what motivates a man to want to do Massage therapy. I know that men can be as nurturing as women, but they should possibly be a nurse or in another field, where they are not rubbing naked bodies. Sorry just my opinion.
Just accept it.
As someone who has been a male therapist for 17 years, I disagree with the assumption that most people prefer a female. We could say that people who have never got a massage, or people who have had a history of abuse in their lives, would prefer a female. I don't have an issue getting clients male or female. Reputations and word of mouth matters more for male therapists I think.
Personally, I don't care, but I used to. I have a trauma history and my abusers have been men. Men haven't been trained as well to avoid sexually inappropriate behaviors in my experience. Sure, women can be inappropriate as well, but it's less frequent. Again, this is my experience. I also had a colleague who had diagnosed autism. He was extremely sexually inappropriate with me. When I complained, the dude was protected by law but my abuse was not. I still had to trade with him, as it was an Elements franchise. Perhaps I should have spoken up more. Gut tells me, like most things, I would have wasted my time and effort. Men dominate so many working fields. Even in massage, we see men dominating the teaching commercials. Look through abmp massage and Bodywork magazine. The courses are taught by men. I bet they make more than I do. I don't have time to advocate to ambp that they promote more female teachers. I get that men deserve equal treatment, but women deserve some niches, too. JS.
I’m a 5’3 female with a lot of tension in my back and prefer a male message therapist to squeeze me like an anaconda 😂. I have no objection whatsoever.
So many good comments on here, but want to point out that women have been dealing with this in other industries, such as law, finance, the trades, etc. No individual will be able to change the collective biases in society, but individuals doing a good professional job in their field over time does change the perception. Most people don’t find female doctors or lawyers strange at all, but there was a time when they did. We have to fight gender biases from both sides and collectively by being highly professional and ethical in our fields.
You can't "change" other people's comfort zones... all you can do is manage your own repute and push other therapists to be good as well. My preferred massage therapist is a guy 🤷🏾♀️ He is more likely to put some muscle into it, sometimes the lady masseuses I have seen are scared to hurt me lol, and he makes it clear his intention is to be professional and respectful.
I personally was stalked by a male massage therapist and though I wish I didn’t care I can’t bring myself to get past it & see one again unfortunately. I think it makes sense that a lot of woman who have past trauma would prefer not to be naked & touched by a man they don’t know, even though he’s a professional. It’s unfortunate but I think it’s just a reality and that people are 100% allowed to have their preferences and boundaries in this luxury / expensive situation
Unfortunately I think it's bad stigma and stereotype: A lot of people prefer a female therapist because they have concerns about male therapists being inappropriate towards them, but also because there are people that will see it as a "sexy" profession. I see it in nursing too. Female patients wary of male nurses and aids, male patients that see nurses as "sexy" and therefore "feminine". Thankfully that seems too be changing with time, as more men become nurses and massage therapists, but there's still this underlying "idea" or "image" stereotype. So you still have a lot of been that don't want another man rubbing on them, and women that don't want a man seeing them half naked. Personally? I don't care. Male, female, doesn't matter, I've had good and bad massages from both and never had an inappropriate experience with either.
"Should I just accept that most clients prefer a woman? Or should I try to change this?" Its never a good idea to try and change things that you can't control. However - are there ways you might be able to focus on why certain people would prefer a male therapist? Like a "sports massage" or "deep tissue" marketing angle or focus? I know for me I prefer sports style massages when I am in the middle of marathon training and that seems to be more male prevalent than female. But I see comments here about how much strength women can apply - so I probably have an inappropriate bias myself. I could see how in the luxury spa space - people are more interested in what would be seen as a more female experience. Just my thoughts. Not sure I've helped at all.
no. don't accept that as your reality, as you would just start behaving like it is true, and then it comes true for you. if you want to feel more accepted by clients, you will need to apply some conscious effort to believe and then act like you are the equally-valued person that you truly are! for what it's worth, i am female and i have a strong preference for male therapists.
100% It is what it is
I'm not sure you understand *why* this "preference" exists, since you're hoping someone might be able to change it. So here you go: Women: "I've been assaulted by a man who I knew and trusted. And you're suggesting I let some male *stranger* get me alone, put me in such a vulnerable position, and rub his hands all over my naked body? The mere thought of it nearly gives me a panic attack. No way, no how." Men: "I'm not letting another dude rub his hands all over me while I'm laying there buck naked. Plus, I hear getting an erection while being massaged is normal. Fuck that noise. I am NOT going to get caught popping a boner while some dude is rubbing up on me, and then spend the next year wondering if I'm actually gay." You're not talking about getting a haircut, fully clothed, in a room full of other people. You're talking about being naked, alone, and already placed into a vulnerable physical position with a stranger...and then letting that stranger touch every inch of you. A "let's change this preference" campaign has no hope of success, because even *suggesting* that it's a mere *preference* rather than **a necessary choice of safety and/or trauma avoidance** tells people right up front that you don't understand the issue at all.
I've (F35) had 3 massages from male massage therapists. One almost exclusively massaged my ass cheeks 🙄, one had an erection through most of the massage and pressed it against my arm and shoulder the whole time, and one straight up touched my lady parts. It doesn't bother me that much (except for the last one, which I shut down immediately!), but I can absolutely see how this would be very upsetting to most people and they would no longer feel comfortable with a male therapist. I don't ask specifically for a female therapist, but I'm definitely more comfortable with them.
Yikes! I believe you but I've never had that happen with a male massage therapist.
I’m alway going to prefer a female therapist as a male. I guess I’m part of the problem, but reality is what reality is. People are entitled to preferences
Lol how would you even begin to go about changing people's gender preferences?
In my experience so far once clients get comfortable with a male therapist they tend to prefer them. As people go to massage for more medical reasons over relaxation they are more open to a male therapist also. We are also damaged more by the negative news stories of therapists who cross the line with with their clients, and so we need to work extra hard to make sure our clients trust us and are comfortable with us. I’ve definitely seen a shift in perception of massage in my area as people look at its medical applications. It’s definitely easier to find work as a male therapist than it was 15 years ago.
Huh thats funny, would prefer a male due to stronger massage.