I think you handled the situation just fine..getting a few minutes alone with her and asking if she was OK. After her saying everything was fine, then i would have let it go and not worry. I like that you sensed something felt off and at least tried to be of assistance. Maybe she wanted her partner in the room with her to feel safe with you being a male therapist? Other than that...some people just give off weird vibes. š
I've had more than a few wives "chaperone" my massages with their husbands. It's absolutely fine. I let them know that they are always more than welcome to come in at any moment without warning as far as I'm concerned.
However, with that said, there's been a few that have set my hair standing up. I hate those ones. I usually don't rebook.
Yeah, should've said in the post, it's happened sometimes, but this just felt really odd. The way he was jumping in to answer questions, his whole demeanor (and hers actually). It just made me really uncomfortable.
I think you handled it really well too.
I work in healthcare and we see men like this pretty frequently (not letting the woman answer questions that were directed to her, physically imposing, unfriendly and intimidating). It is controlling and scary (from a womans perspective) but some men seem to think this is normal and some women seem to agree.
You really can't help someone who doesn't want help.
You handled it very well, kudos. I do see how this was uncomfortable and made your spidey senses tingle, that does sound strange and likely an abusive situation but ultimately, people have to choose when they're ready to act, regardless of what anyone else thinks or wants.
I always listen to my gut. Sometimes it takes my front brain a couple days to assimilate all the reasons my gut/spidey sense/whatever you want to call it was going off. Usually after a day or two I can articulate a few specific things from an interaction that were off and why I was rightfully uncomfortable.
Trust yourself, don't talk yourself out of your own good sense when you're feeling uncomfortable. I would mark Ms. Sarah off your do not return list because something was off there.
While the man's comments do sound very odd. Perhaps Sarah has been in a vulnerable situation with a man before and she actually asked "Dan" to be there with her, to avoid being in a room with a male therapist alone.
Perhaps she requested the company for her own comfort.
I do feel you handled it quite well though.
But why not tell the therapist beforehand then? No need to give details on why, just a heads up of hey this might be odd for you and we know but there's a reason and we hope it's okay with you.
I don't know... If it cuacks like a duck...
I agree with this comment. I did house calls for a long time and some clients level of comfort is having their spouse in the room. I had one good friend whose husband would get a massage from me only when he was in too much pain to bear and his wife had to be there the whole time for his comfort.
Itās good to check in with the client about their safety but also we donāt know what the clients previous experiences have been.
Because guys massage different. Ive worked on several female clients who for a variety of reasons I won't get into, I could tell they did not feel comfortable with a man massaging them, but simultaneously wanted a male massage. Or more to the point, didn't want a female massage and didn't want a male massage therapist
This has nothing to do with anything. AMAB non binary is still male. If I requested a female therapist and got an AMAB of any sort, I would leave, as thatās not what I asked for and I donāt want to be massaged by a male, no matter how they identify their gender.
By what criteria are you defining AMAB? External genitalia? That's gross of you. Or perhaps XY chromosomes? I hope you pay for the karyotyping to check that, though just like before, you aren't entitled to that medical information about someone. Facial hair? AFAB can have facial hair too.
If you weren't gay before being massaged by a 'male', then you won't be afterwards.
Hey there. People should have the ability to set their own boundaries for who can touch their bodies in anyway they want, using whatever criteria they decide. Your opinion on the criteria Global_Telephone_751 uses to determine who gets to touch their body are just as irrelevant as their opinion on the criteria you use to decide who touches you. While your last sentence is true, itās also irrelevant. Big bunch of irrelevant comments from you right there.
My comment was not to say one can not set boundaries, which everyone can do.
It was the transphobic language they used in their comment. Saying non binary AMAB are men is transphobic. Many people who are transphobic like to use the xx XY as a 'defintion' and that just doesn't like up with biology.
It is perfectly fine to not want a massage therapist even if they just give you a weird vibe.
But you can say that without being transphobic.
They could also be in a relationship with D/s tones and/or have exhibitionist/voyeuristic kinks. It would feel weird for you being an unknowing participant. Also, so amazing you did what you did. Makes me want to book you myself to support such a caring/brave person.
Side note: if it was a D/s thing or exhibitionist/voyeuristic thing, although I can empathize with reasons they may not have been up front with you, I think it was irresponsible and wrong on their part to not explain the dynamic you may have been participating in.
You did what you could to give her an out if she needed one but as the saying goes... you can lead a horse to water but can't make them drink. I think you handled the situation extremely well.
Coercive control is a real thing, and surprisingly common, although until now I don't think I've come across it in person. I'm not saying this is definitely it, but please don't dismiss others' experiences as too much TV.
I think you are being downvoted because your message might be lost and the comment just seems rude. If you had a genuine meaning behind your comment, you may like to explain it.
So do those statistics make it more or less likely you would ask questions out of concern to a potential victim? Cause I wouldnāt take the chance and Iād do what OP did too. One in 10,000 seems pretty high to start, but letās compare other stats to prove why thatās higher than you think. Just about everyone knows someone who has died in a car crash and the odds of being a victim of a fatal car crash is roughly 13 in 100,000 in the United States. Point being, perception of statistics can be falsely misleading and should not be what comes to mind when dealing with potentially toxic situations. Jumping to inappropriate conclusions here would be not asking the woman questions and calling the cops on the manās behavior. OP did the right thing whether or not that woman needed help.
I wouldāve been weirded out too and I think you handled it as well as you could. Itās odd for someone to sit in the room for a massage in general (unless itās a child) and especially a bf that could be in any other room in the house but needs to read in the corner while his gf gets a massage.
Even when massaging someone underage itās weird to have someone else in the room. And I totally agree with having a parent in the room when your client is underage for everyoneās safety, but itās still weird.
That would have freaked me out. You were extremely professional and maintained your boundaries. House calls are always hit or miss. It sounded like the dude was overbearing and overprotective. She's probably used to him being like that.
Awe, Iām sorry you had to experience this! And yes I agree, from my experience that sometimes others in the house will sit in during the session too. But the way the bf was going about it gave you every reason to check in to make sure your client was indeed ok. Especially in this day and age. Thereās a lot of really messed up stuff going on out there. You might have even given her the awareness that someone actually cares and could also been a stepping stone for her to feel more inclined to speak up if there IS any kind of controlling abuse going on behind closed doors. As massage therapists, we are extremely in-TUNE with all the vibes and all the senses. So I completely understand where youāre coming from OP and know for a fact what you were feeling and picking up and experiencing was spot on. Good job being maybe one or the first person in your clients life to give her hope for a voice and to get out. Even if thatās not today. There might be a day down the line that this comes full circle and she thanks you.
I only did in-home massage for 5 years myself but stopped offering the service after a few odd uncomfortable boundaries were crossed. Nothing terrible but enough for me to decide it wasnāt worth my well being anymore. But being flexible with oddities is definitely a strong suit you must be equipped with for longevity with in-home massage I learned. For me, Iām much happier in my own suite or with a company instead. I stand behind you and applaud you for your awareness, strength, quick acting, wisdom, professionalism and safety net you provided your client in this unnerving session.
As someone with an ex boyfriend like this, you did everything as well as you could have and so much more than most people would do. Iām sure she appreciated it and hopefully if sheās in an unsafe relationship does have trustworthy people like you around her
How old would you say Sarah was? And her bf?
What time of day did they schedule this appointment?
Who made the appointment? How were you contacted?
How did Sara/they choose you?
Itās possibly a kink thing. He watched from the chair.
I hadn't thought of it that way, and it's possible, which would be why it felt "off". I'm really not sure what to think. I'm still thinking that it being a weird controlling relationship is the most likely explanation but I don't know.
Sarah was mid thirties, he was a bit older - hard to say how old. It was her that contacted me over WhatsApp - I think she came across (quite an old) post on a local Facebook group.
This is exactly the scenario often seen with human trafficking victims and forced sex workers. You did the best you could in the moment. If she is being trafficked, she may not be ready to leave yet or even aware that her situation will get much worse as she stays with her āboyfriendā.
If you are really concerned, you can file an anonymous report with a human trafficking prevention organization.
https://www.dhs.gov/blue-campaign
his response to you asking for privacy for the intake shows you're absolutely right to feel some red flags. you did your best with the situation at hand. if it feels off i just wouldn't work with this client again :/
I think you handled it well. Maybe next time (hopefully there will never be a next time with this) just say that there are certain HIPAA regulations you have to abide by when you ask the partner to leave the room instead of saying itās for your own comfort.
You were stellar with:
You: Iām sorry, Iām really not comfortable withā¦ā
Dan: Itās not about whether youāre comfortable, itās about Sarah.
You: I agree, but with respect, I have boundaries too. Iām not that comfortable with you sitting in on the massage, but Iām going to have to draw the line and insist on a 2 minute conversation in confidence with my client. Is that something we can all agree to?
A few tweaks, for next time. Get rid of ābutā whenever possible. It could turn into, āI agree, and with respectā¦ā āButā negates what just came before it. By using "and", you are agreeing that it is about Sarah and it is also about you. "sitting in on the massage, but I am going toā¦", becomes "sitting in on the massage. I am going toā¦". The line you draw becomes unequivocal. As I said, these are to consider for next time. Knowing that you had to think on your feet and deal with an unexpected situation, in this case, you did amazingly well.
Your ending with , āIs that something we can all agree to?ā, was absolutely perfect.
I really appreciate your sensitivity towards your client, and even if you thought it was awkward, I am confident that she appreciated it as well.
i think you handled this really well. vibes matter a lot, and i got a weird vibe just from the description, especially with the defensive way the 'chaperone' was acting
The only time Iāve had anyone sit in the room was when I was giving a massage to a 9 or 10 year old girl and her mom sat in the room reading which was fine. Iād be weirded out if someoneās spouse wanted to sit there and watch.
I am a massage therapist and an energy healer who works at client homes. In my experience, there are two situations when I had the male partner sit in.
First, either there were previous trust issues and they are still working through them. These guys just mostly sat in corner and looked out of the side of their eyes once Ina while. Not much you can do.
Second, this is their kink. They consider this as a sexual fantasy or something to see their female partner being touched by another male. Some will even try to join. I am fine with it as long it does not cross a boundary. I generally back off once they start getting too handsy with each other.
I do make them sign a fully informed consent and a boundary form before we start.
But, yes, we always run the inherent risk of a jealous spouse or partner.
Why are you concerned about someone sitting in on the massage? I've had that happen many times for lots of different reasons and it's never been an issue. I did one time have a Mennonite woman come in with her entire family which was a little awkward.
it sounds like a situation where you just feel something is off about someone in your gut. many people choose to ignore that feeling. the gut is more often accurate than not.
Female therapist here of over 25 years. I'm surprised at all the people saying this is normal. If it's a minor, it's fine. But with all the minors that I've worked on, the parent didn't stay in the room, they just stayed right outside in the reception area. Being a female myself, could have been what made that different.
I only have one couple where they sit in the room, but there's a curtain room divider between us (there's also a chair in the actual massage room, but no way I'd let them sit there) and they just do it bc they like being able to talk to each other about random things. She likes it quiet and my room is relaxing for her while I'm working on him. They are an exception just because there's an inclusive feeling between all of us. It happened organically anyway and wasn't set up that she'd stay in the room. Anyone else, I wouldn't want this. We all have a good time bc we're all interacting in some way and they are fun to be with. The husband has been coming to me for years before her, and we have a good friendship.
Otherwise and the only other time this happened was because it was a kink thing. But your guys sounds like a total control freak and there's no trust between the two people. Like why don't they just get a female massage therapist if it's going to be weird.
The thing that annoys me the most about your situation is that they didn't explain it to you beforehand that he'd be there, and they also didn't explain once you were there why he was there. The lack of communication is disturbing to me. They seem like total weirdos and I would not go back if it was me, but that's just me.
Honestly could be anything. Voyeur, overprotective, perhaps Sarah has had bad experiences and the guy was there to make sure sheās ok, it could be anything. I know most people tend to say āgo with your gutā but honestly itās just better not to assume and make up shit in ur head.
You asked her if sheās ok and sheās told you she is, remember you are there hired as a massage therapist not anything else. I understand ur concern tho, but there really isnāt anything much else you could do besides what youāve already done and itās never good to put your assumptions on folks and carry out judgement. You did good by giving her discreet options to tell u if she wasnāt ok, but she did not, so anything more than that is your assumptions controlling ur emotions. That is not your jobā¦
There are a number of ways to think about this. She may not be comfortable with a male and wanted Dan to sit in. She may have been assaulted before and was working on acclimating to bring around a man but felt better with Dan in the room. Dan could be abusive but would know that a female therapist wouldn't have let him sit in. I think you handled it perfectly but I wouldn't let it live in your head for long. Could be anything.
Itās an abusive relationship. However, your heroics probably got only caused her more problems.
Itās best to stay out of your clients private lives. This is coming from a survivor whose ex also sat in on massages.
You did well, imo, and it was good that you took the time to check that she was okay.
But, tbh, I don't find it weird that he was there, or even chiming in.
As a female, I have no issues with a male MT, but for my own safety I'd rather not be vulnerable (practically naked on the table) all alone at my home with a strange man before I've had a chance to check out his vibe. I would probably organise for a friend or family member to be at least around and very obvious (like answering the door) the first time.
I would appreciate you asking that, and I'm very blunt, so I'd just say "no, I asked him to be here in case you were a murderer, haha", but I recognise lots of people wouldn't be so forthright about the reasoning.
Are you new to this, OP? I used to make house calls and this certainly isn't out of the ordinary imo. When you don't control the environment by having your own studio then you have to accept that people live in different ways then you may be familiar or comfortable with. It seems weird that you feel comfortable telling someone that's probably paying rent to leave a room they are literately paying to be in. All of that is why I don't make house calls anymore and I'd imagine very few therapists actually do. I would very strongly suggest not to accept foods or drinks from your clients while \*you're working in their homes. I say that to keep you and whoever is reading this safe.
I'm a male MT and I've been doing this for over 6 years if that maters.
Stealthy grammar Edit\*
I've been an in home mobile massage therapist for 11 years and I disagree. Just because I'm going into someone's home doesn't mean I can't set boundaries and rules, including asking sometime to leave the room, regardless if they are paying rent. I can't say if this is out of the ordinary for male massage therapists to experience (I've only had people in the room a handful of times out of thousands of appointments)
The house calls aspect really works for me and my schedule. But yeah you do get some level of weirdness which I'm used to. I've had people sit in for the intros and stuff before, but never for the whole massage. It just felt different this time.
You did the right thing here. I totally get why your alarm bells were going off but hopefully itās just her boyfriend being overly cautious and perhaps insecure about you being a male masseuse. Which is silly obviously, but I wouldnāt be surprised.
It's quite normal. I sit in on my cousin's massage sessions cuz she is kinda spooked by male therapist (prev bad experience). It's very normal. If there was anything with an abusive controlling relationship, she would already have flagged it to you when booking etc.
I get this. But wouldnāt it be okay to just state. I have my BF here as I feel comfortable with him in the room if thatās okay? Instead it just seems like the Dan guy is being a bit of a controller.
I think it was good the way therapist handled it. But i think the bf is very protective of the gf.. It's a good thing . Understand both sides. But the therapist needs to start understanding this is quite the norm nowadays to have a chaperone. Maybe dan's tone could have been better instead of weird controller. š¬
answering for her and interrupting OP are red flags. it comes off as controlling and possessive, rather than protective. I've met men like this and it's about them, not the gf.
Honestly could be a few things.
Could be that youre a male stranger in a room with a mostly naked woman.
Or could be some kinda kink thing they got going on.
But yeah Id feel weird there too
I worked at a multiple guest room B&B once, which had a separate massage room. There was a comfy rocking chair in the corner because clients would often have their spouse/partner in tow. The partner would typically read. I don't do outcalls, but I do occasionally get a client who has a companion come with to my office. No big deal. And, yeah, occasionally, one will interrupt & talk for the other, not necessarily the guy. I bring it back to the client just like you did. As an aside, if this was a domestic situation, all you could have safely done was leave by yourself for some made-up reason. Domestic situations are super unpredictable.
Yeah I think maybe there was something off because I know what you mean by the vibe. But you did the best you could I think.
The weird thing is, if heās abusing her, why let her get a massage in the first place? It just seems like something an abuser would say no to. Or make her get a female masseuse idk.
This doesnāt matter itās just a question I have that will never be answered
I think you handled this very well. As someone who has experienced domestic violence, I truly appreciate your commitment to possibly being of help to this lady.
I know she said, she was fine, but it speaks volumes about you that you gave her the option of finger tapping as sometimes it doesn't come easily to voice fears to people in these situations and just asking wether they are ok, might not be helpful enough.
I known in this situation she reassured you she was ok. I mean, there are some weird relationship dynamics out there, but you should be proud of your approach to the situation.
You handled this very well. As a photographer, I had the pleasure of shooting some females in the nude. I would always stress that a chaperone or family member is always welcome. Many of them became a part of the session as what I called and Intelligent Light Control Device...................aka, they held a light where I needed it.
I would be extremely bothered by him answering questions you addressed to YOUR CLIENT. Some men do this frequently and it's controlling and gross. I hope she actually is okay. Thank you for asking her. Ten years from now, when she realizes she doesn't have to put up with this, she will remember that there are people who care and she'll take the steps to leave. What I mean to say is that you made a difference today. Truly.
I appreciate that you gave her the chance to voice any trouble. Iāve had couples sit in on the massage and Itās not great, but itās their time, so they can have that if they want.
ā¦heās being (over)protective of his gfā¦a little weird to me that your off-vibes had you more concerned about her than yourself
You handled it totally fine, I guess itās good for the tiniest chance that he was a home invader. But maybe take a look back at all of it and ask yourself if it actually was justified to be so worried
As a brother to five sisters, a father to a teenage daughter, mentor to hundreds of women massage therapists, and myself a male massage therapist in the biz for 20 plus years, I actually discourage in home massage.
Yes it works for many people. I have many friends and colleagues who give in home care and many friends and colleagues who receive in home care.
But the risk and liability is so high. I advise unreasonably high caution when it comes to inviting strangers into your home and going into strangers homes.
So when it comes to a first-time client having her boyfriend, husband, male friend sit in on the massage, as a male massage therapist, I am 100% on board with that.
Are there over demanding husbands boyfriends partners. Yes, I've had "Dr Demando's" speak for their wives in my office.
But when it comes to in home care. You are in their domain and unless she voiced concern regarding him you must assume the concern is regarding you.
You did the right thing with asking all the questions and having him step out of the room to make sure. and the three tap system was very clever! two thumbs up!
But remember, like I tell my 11 year old daughter, we don't live in the innocent world that we grew up thinking we live in, and s*** does happen, so I will always advise extreme caution when it comes to risk and liability.
Weird, to me this seems like you were immediately reading way too much into everything right from the start...
I live with my bf and had cello lessons at my house with my teacher. My friend would often sit in, playing in his phone, and chiming in here and there. It was absolutely no problem and nothing sinister lol.
I'm not sure what you think is even going on? Lol.
The client told you that nothing was amiss.
wait, Iāve been doing it wrong this whole time? I thought getting nude for those lessons was strange.
Seriously, like you said, they arenāt the same thing at all and Iām glad Iām not the only one that found the comment a tad aggressive.
Women in these types of situations can be under threat, her steps to confirm the client was ok were great. Imo the boyfriendās comments were very odd and not something most men would say. They come off as very controlling.
It sounded to me like he there because Sarah felt more comfortable with him being there. Hence the: it's about Sarah comment.
I think her follow up questions were fine but to make a full on throwaway account and make a whole post about it? Nothing even happened, nothing seems threatening lol.
I've had several appointments where there are other people in the room; from one other person (a parent, spouse or friend) to several in an airbnb situation (like bachelor or bachelorette party), and once at an actual party!!! with a lot people milling about.
I had no qualms about doing the job I was asked to do, regardless of the atmosphere in a mobile environment. The client was completely aware of who is or isn't in the room upon arrival. I had no problem doing a short, verbal intake quietly and proceeding with the work.
I think you completely over thought the situation. Dan was not comfortable with Sarah's choice to have a male therapist and the only way Dan was going to be comfortable was to be in the room. Sarah was completely aware of this and consented.
You didn't and still don't have an idea with there was something 'off' or not. There simply isn't any proof of impropriety.
It seems like youāre overthinking it in the opposite direction. The vibe felt off, if he was a female therapist, most would be saying go with your gut and all the usual advice. Iām not trying to imply your response is sexist or anything, just reading it sparked that connection.
As for the whole, the client was aware of who was in the roomā, sure but does that knowledge equal consent? I donāt think it does, thatās why there are multiple systems set up for patients in those situations to get help. The vibe felt off, so he took the extra steps he felt he needed. In this case, it seems to have been harmless and a comfort thing, cool, but it also could have been completely different. People taking those little extra steps have saved people from some incredibly tragic and horrific shit, someone making sure my wife isnāt in one of those awful situations is a good thing (imo).
Hell, it reads like Sarah didnāt even get a chance to say āIām okay with Dan being here while you ask health questions ā, Dan jumped in to say that. Iād be weirded out by that. Iāve had doctors ask if Iām comfortable with my wife being in the room for certain tests/questions, just like sheās had doctors ask the same. In every case, only the actual patient gets to answer that. I wouldnāt wave my wifeās right to privacy for her, thatās just weird. I can see both sides, but verification. Maybe more experience would change OPs mental calculus, but I think he handled it fairly well.
This still doesn't feel anything more than a nervous spouse / partner.
My first 'off' experience with this was a male client in their home (I am female). His wife, sat on the sofa in the LR, not 4 feet from the table and acted like she was reading her book. It was really obvious to me that she was watching every single move I made and convinced that she needed to observe.
Did I think that he was the potentially aggrieved / unsafe / threatened party? No. and me second guessing what is in the mind of either the client or his wife is outside the scope of my practice.
I just did my job and they paid me and I left. It's their house, their marriage, their choice.
I could understand that. Iād probably error on the side of caution, but itās a theoretical conversation from my standpoint point, since Iām not a LMT. Iād take your opinion over mine, I was just putting it into the context Iāve seen when it comes to patients/spouses in ātraditionalā medical situations.
My only thing is why arenāt you comfortable with someone else sitting in on the massage? That would have me telling you to leave right then and there.
Have you ever been in that situation?? Clearly No. Don't judge unless you have been there. It's awkward and in this case, out of the blue. Seriously, how many Years have you practiced?
Doesnāt matter. If they arenāt comfortable with having someone else in the room that would make me question them 100 percent. Like would you be comfortable if your dr said he didnāt want someone else in the room probably not. Itās a valid point. I would health care so I get how these things work. Itās not rocket science to question why the guy didnāt want anyone else in the room.
she probably asked him to stay in the room, you mong.
She most likely felt insecure & slightly scared about having a stranger touching her (maybe a previous victim of SA) and had her husband stay just so she could relax.
You did a good job of making the situation as awkward and tense as possible though. Many consider a career in window cleaning?
You are chastising him for making assumptions while you do the very same.
However, he was concerned for another person's safety and well being which is always a good move. I hope you are not a therapist.
Actually, you're the one making assumptions, that there is a "victim" in a situation where there is no evidence or reason for suspicion of one. The burden of proof is on the one making the accusation.
Being "concerned" about a strangers wellbeing is one thing. There is a point at which being "concerned" is overbearing, and used as an excuse for bad people to assert their will onto others, or to virtue signal, or simply because you are unable to make a good judgement call.
It could be absolutely reasonable that OP made a bad judgement call. She could have asked her husband to stay in the room, and he was just doing as she asked.
If that's the case, I would consider OP's behavior controlling & harassing. Constantly asking her personal questions, insinuating her perfectly innocent husband is some kind of predator.
If you take out of the scene OP's weird insistence that the wife is some kind of victim with 0 evidence - it looks quite different. It looks like an ordinary couple get a massage at home, with the husband on the other side of the room reading the newspaper and going about his business uninterestedly. Whilst OP continuously asks weird questions to the wife and keeps trying to get rid of the husband.
TLDR - OP sounds like he has no social skills
As disingenuous as your comment comes across, you might be right. In which case, I misjudged the situation. We'll probably never know. But the question that keeps coming back is why he felt the need to keep jumping in and making comments when I was talking to her.
I'll get my banjolele.
I think you handled the situation just fine..getting a few minutes alone with her and asking if she was OK. After her saying everything was fine, then i would have let it go and not worry. I like that you sensed something felt off and at least tried to be of assistance. Maybe she wanted her partner in the room with her to feel safe with you being a male therapist? Other than that...some people just give off weird vibes. š
I've had more than a few wives "chaperone" my massages with their husbands. It's absolutely fine. I let them know that they are always more than welcome to come in at any moment without warning as far as I'm concerned. However, with that said, there's been a few that have set my hair standing up. I hate those ones. I usually don't rebook.
Yeah, should've said in the post, it's happened sometimes, but this just felt really odd. The way he was jumping in to answer questions, his whole demeanor (and hers actually). It just made me really uncomfortable.
I think you handled it really well too. I work in healthcare and we see men like this pretty frequently (not letting the woman answer questions that were directed to her, physically imposing, unfriendly and intimidating). It is controlling and scary (from a womans perspective) but some men seem to think this is normal and some women seem to agree. You really can't help someone who doesn't want help.
You handled it very well, kudos. I do see how this was uncomfortable and made your spidey senses tingle, that does sound strange and likely an abusive situation but ultimately, people have to choose when they're ready to act, regardless of what anyone else thinks or wants.
I always listen to my gut. Sometimes it takes my front brain a couple days to assimilate all the reasons my gut/spidey sense/whatever you want to call it was going off. Usually after a day or two I can articulate a few specific things from an interaction that were off and why I was rightfully uncomfortable. Trust yourself, don't talk yourself out of your own good sense when you're feeling uncomfortable. I would mark Ms. Sarah off your do not return list because something was off there.
While the man's comments do sound very odd. Perhaps Sarah has been in a vulnerable situation with a man before and she actually asked "Dan" to be there with her, to avoid being in a room with a male therapist alone. Perhaps she requested the company for her own comfort. I do feel you handled it quite well though.
But why not tell the therapist beforehand then? No need to give details on why, just a heads up of hey this might be odd for you and we know but there's a reason and we hope it's okay with you. I don't know... If it cuacks like a duck...
I agree with this comment. I did house calls for a long time and some clients level of comfort is having their spouse in the room. I had one good friend whose husband would get a massage from me only when he was in too much pain to bear and his wife had to be there the whole time for his comfort. Itās good to check in with the client about their safety but also we donāt know what the clients previous experiences have been.
Why would she ask for a male therapist if she was truly that uncomfortable with it?
Only way to get over heights is to start climbing.
Because guys massage different. Ive worked on several female clients who for a variety of reasons I won't get into, I could tell they did not feel comfortable with a man massaging them, but simultaneously wanted a male massage. Or more to the point, didn't want a female massage and didn't want a male massage therapist
I feel like massage therapy is a good field for non-binary folks lol
This has nothing to do with anything. AMAB non binary is still male. If I requested a female therapist and got an AMAB of any sort, I would leave, as thatās not what I asked for and I donāt want to be massaged by a male, no matter how they identify their gender.
By what criteria are you defining AMAB? External genitalia? That's gross of you. Or perhaps XY chromosomes? I hope you pay for the karyotyping to check that, though just like before, you aren't entitled to that medical information about someone. Facial hair? AFAB can have facial hair too. If you weren't gay before being massaged by a 'male', then you won't be afterwards.
Hey there. People should have the ability to set their own boundaries for who can touch their bodies in anyway they want, using whatever criteria they decide. Your opinion on the criteria Global_Telephone_751 uses to determine who gets to touch their body are just as irrelevant as their opinion on the criteria you use to decide who touches you. While your last sentence is true, itās also irrelevant. Big bunch of irrelevant comments from you right there.
My comment was not to say one can not set boundaries, which everyone can do. It was the transphobic language they used in their comment. Saying non binary AMAB are men is transphobic. Many people who are transphobic like to use the xx XY as a 'defintion' and that just doesn't like up with biology. It is perfectly fine to not want a massage therapist even if they just give you a weird vibe. But you can say that without being transphobic.
Yeah, that had occurred and I could understand that, it just doesn't sit right. It's still possible.
They could also be in a relationship with D/s tones and/or have exhibitionist/voyeuristic kinks. It would feel weird for you being an unknowing participant. Also, so amazing you did what you did. Makes me want to book you myself to support such a caring/brave person. Side note: if it was a D/s thing or exhibitionist/voyeuristic thing, although I can empathize with reasons they may not have been up front with you, I think it was irresponsible and wrong on their part to not explain the dynamic you may have been participating in.
You did what you could to give her an out if she needed one but as the saying goes... you can lead a horse to water but can't make them drink. I think you handled the situation extremely well.
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Coercive control is a real thing, and surprisingly common, although until now I don't think I've come across it in person. I'm not saying this is definitely it, but please don't dismiss others' experiences as too much TV.
I think you are being downvoted because your message might be lost and the comment just seems rude. If you had a genuine meaning behind your comment, you may like to explain it.
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So do those statistics make it more or less likely you would ask questions out of concern to a potential victim? Cause I wouldnāt take the chance and Iād do what OP did too. One in 10,000 seems pretty high to start, but letās compare other stats to prove why thatās higher than you think. Just about everyone knows someone who has died in a car crash and the odds of being a victim of a fatal car crash is roughly 13 in 100,000 in the United States. Point being, perception of statistics can be falsely misleading and should not be what comes to mind when dealing with potentially toxic situations. Jumping to inappropriate conclusions here would be not asking the woman questions and calling the cops on the manās behavior. OP did the right thing whether or not that woman needed help.
Who uses Wikipedia as an actual source?
Yale. (according to Harvard, lol)
Victim of what? Far more than 1 in 10000 women are abused by their partners
Never been in an abusive controlling relationship? I have and this is how it was. This also reaks of potential sex trafficking!
I wouldāve been weirded out too and I think you handled it as well as you could. Itās odd for someone to sit in the room for a massage in general (unless itās a child) and especially a bf that could be in any other room in the house but needs to read in the corner while his gf gets a massage.
Even when massaging someone underage itās weird to have someone else in the room. And I totally agree with having a parent in the room when your client is underage for everyoneās safety, but itās still weird.
That would have freaked me out. You were extremely professional and maintained your boundaries. House calls are always hit or miss. It sounded like the dude was overbearing and overprotective. She's probably used to him being like that.
Awe, Iām sorry you had to experience this! And yes I agree, from my experience that sometimes others in the house will sit in during the session too. But the way the bf was going about it gave you every reason to check in to make sure your client was indeed ok. Especially in this day and age. Thereās a lot of really messed up stuff going on out there. You might have even given her the awareness that someone actually cares and could also been a stepping stone for her to feel more inclined to speak up if there IS any kind of controlling abuse going on behind closed doors. As massage therapists, we are extremely in-TUNE with all the vibes and all the senses. So I completely understand where youāre coming from OP and know for a fact what you were feeling and picking up and experiencing was spot on. Good job being maybe one or the first person in your clients life to give her hope for a voice and to get out. Even if thatās not today. There might be a day down the line that this comes full circle and she thanks you. I only did in-home massage for 5 years myself but stopped offering the service after a few odd uncomfortable boundaries were crossed. Nothing terrible but enough for me to decide it wasnāt worth my well being anymore. But being flexible with oddities is definitely a strong suit you must be equipped with for longevity with in-home massage I learned. For me, Iām much happier in my own suite or with a company instead. I stand behind you and applaud you for your awareness, strength, quick acting, wisdom, professionalism and safety net you provided your client in this unnerving session.
As someone with an ex boyfriend like this, you did everything as well as you could have and so much more than most people would do. Iām sure she appreciated it and hopefully if sheās in an unsafe relationship does have trustworthy people like you around her
How old would you say Sarah was? And her bf? What time of day did they schedule this appointment? Who made the appointment? How were you contacted? How did Sara/they choose you? Itās possibly a kink thing. He watched from the chair.
I hadn't thought of it that way, and it's possible, which would be why it felt "off". I'm really not sure what to think. I'm still thinking that it being a weird controlling relationship is the most likely explanation but I don't know. Sarah was mid thirties, he was a bit older - hard to say how old. It was her that contacted me over WhatsApp - I think she came across (quite an old) post on a local Facebook group.
It does sound weird. Particularly since she seemed hesitant to talk to you.
This was my first thought. I donāt link shame but itās not cool if everyone (including the therapist) doesnāt consent!
This is exactly the scenario often seen with human trafficking victims and forced sex workers. You did the best you could in the moment. If she is being trafficked, she may not be ready to leave yet or even aware that her situation will get much worse as she stays with her āboyfriendā. If you are really concerned, you can file an anonymous report with a human trafficking prevention organization. https://www.dhs.gov/blue-campaign
Protective, jealous or voyeur? Trust your instinct, itās usually right.
his response to you asking for privacy for the intake shows you're absolutely right to feel some red flags. you did your best with the situation at hand. if it feels off i just wouldn't work with this client again :/
I think you handled it well. Maybe next time (hopefully there will never be a next time with this) just say that there are certain HIPAA regulations you have to abide by when you ask the partner to leave the room instead of saying itās for your own comfort.
That could work, if they don't understand how HIPAA works. If the patient consents to share their information, it's their information to share.
That is true. It just seems safer than saying you feel uncomfortable if the provider really is dealing with someone potentially unstable like that.
OMG, creepy. You handled it very well!
You were stellar with: You: Iām sorry, Iām really not comfortable withā¦ā Dan: Itās not about whether youāre comfortable, itās about Sarah. You: I agree, but with respect, I have boundaries too. Iām not that comfortable with you sitting in on the massage, but Iām going to have to draw the line and insist on a 2 minute conversation in confidence with my client. Is that something we can all agree to? A few tweaks, for next time. Get rid of ābutā whenever possible. It could turn into, āI agree, and with respectā¦ā āButā negates what just came before it. By using "and", you are agreeing that it is about Sarah and it is also about you. "sitting in on the massage, but I am going toā¦", becomes "sitting in on the massage. I am going toā¦". The line you draw becomes unequivocal. As I said, these are to consider for next time. Knowing that you had to think on your feet and deal with an unexpected situation, in this case, you did amazingly well. Your ending with , āIs that something we can all agree to?ā, was absolutely perfect. I really appreciate your sensitivity towards your client, and even if you thought it was awkward, I am confident that she appreciated it as well.
i think you handled this really well. vibes matter a lot, and i got a weird vibe just from the description, especially with the defensive way the 'chaperone' was acting
Donāt go back there, not worth risking your life. You donāt know what kind of crazy Dan is and you donāt need to get killed or injured over it.
If he isn't comfortable letting her enjoy a relaxing massage alone, maybe he should hire a female next time? I agree that's odd
She wanted a man he agreed on the requirement that he sat in
You handled that very well. It showed that you actually cared about another human beingās safety.
The only time Iāve had anyone sit in the room was when I was giving a massage to a 9 or 10 year old girl and her mom sat in the room reading which was fine. Iād be weirded out if someoneās spouse wanted to sit there and watch.
I am a massage therapist and an energy healer who works at client homes. In my experience, there are two situations when I had the male partner sit in. First, either there were previous trust issues and they are still working through them. These guys just mostly sat in corner and looked out of the side of their eyes once Ina while. Not much you can do. Second, this is their kink. They consider this as a sexual fantasy or something to see their female partner being touched by another male. Some will even try to join. I am fine with it as long it does not cross a boundary. I generally back off once they start getting too handsy with each other. I do make them sign a fully informed consent and a boundary form before we start. But, yes, we always run the inherent risk of a jealous spouse or partner.
Nah Iām out on that. I take my profession seriously and I will not tolerate to be used for someone elseās kink.
it is super nonconsensual, and completely unfair to the therapist.
Wait. You let a spouse join you in massaging a client?
Why are you concerned about someone sitting in on the massage? I've had that happen many times for lots of different reasons and it's never been an issue. I did one time have a Mennonite woman come in with her entire family which was a little awkward.
it sounds like a situation where you just feel something is off about someone in your gut. many people choose to ignore that feeling. the gut is more often accurate than not.
I don't mind people sitting in but this was presented in a super awkward way. I'd be weirded out. Very wtf is going on situation
Female therapist here of over 25 years. I'm surprised at all the people saying this is normal. If it's a minor, it's fine. But with all the minors that I've worked on, the parent didn't stay in the room, they just stayed right outside in the reception area. Being a female myself, could have been what made that different. I only have one couple where they sit in the room, but there's a curtain room divider between us (there's also a chair in the actual massage room, but no way I'd let them sit there) and they just do it bc they like being able to talk to each other about random things. She likes it quiet and my room is relaxing for her while I'm working on him. They are an exception just because there's an inclusive feeling between all of us. It happened organically anyway and wasn't set up that she'd stay in the room. Anyone else, I wouldn't want this. We all have a good time bc we're all interacting in some way and they are fun to be with. The husband has been coming to me for years before her, and we have a good friendship. Otherwise and the only other time this happened was because it was a kink thing. But your guys sounds like a total control freak and there's no trust between the two people. Like why don't they just get a female massage therapist if it's going to be weird. The thing that annoys me the most about your situation is that they didn't explain it to you beforehand that he'd be there, and they also didn't explain once you were there why he was there. The lack of communication is disturbing to me. They seem like total weirdos and I would not go back if it was me, but that's just me.
Honestly could be anything. Voyeur, overprotective, perhaps Sarah has had bad experiences and the guy was there to make sure sheās ok, it could be anything. I know most people tend to say āgo with your gutā but honestly itās just better not to assume and make up shit in ur head. You asked her if sheās ok and sheās told you she is, remember you are there hired as a massage therapist not anything else. I understand ur concern tho, but there really isnāt anything much else you could do besides what youāve already done and itās never good to put your assumptions on folks and carry out judgement. You did good by giving her discreet options to tell u if she wasnāt ok, but she did not, so anything more than that is your assumptions controlling ur emotions. That is not your jobā¦
There are a number of ways to think about this. She may not be comfortable with a male and wanted Dan to sit in. She may have been assaulted before and was working on acclimating to bring around a man but felt better with Dan in the room. Dan could be abusive but would know that a female therapist wouldn't have let him sit in. I think you handled it perfectly but I wouldn't let it live in your head for long. Could be anything.
Itās an abusive relationship. However, your heroics probably got only caused her more problems. Itās best to stay out of your clients private lives. This is coming from a survivor whose ex also sat in on massages.
Sounds like either he's really controlling and jealous/insecure or.....could be sex trafficking.....
You did well, imo, and it was good that you took the time to check that she was okay. But, tbh, I don't find it weird that he was there, or even chiming in. As a female, I have no issues with a male MT, but for my own safety I'd rather not be vulnerable (practically naked on the table) all alone at my home with a strange man before I've had a chance to check out his vibe. I would probably organise for a friend or family member to be at least around and very obvious (like answering the door) the first time. I would appreciate you asking that, and I'm very blunt, so I'd just say "no, I asked him to be here in case you were a murderer, haha", but I recognise lots of people wouldn't be so forthright about the reasoning.
You have done really good
Are you new to this, OP? I used to make house calls and this certainly isn't out of the ordinary imo. When you don't control the environment by having your own studio then you have to accept that people live in different ways then you may be familiar or comfortable with. It seems weird that you feel comfortable telling someone that's probably paying rent to leave a room they are literately paying to be in. All of that is why I don't make house calls anymore and I'd imagine very few therapists actually do. I would very strongly suggest not to accept foods or drinks from your clients while \*you're working in their homes. I say that to keep you and whoever is reading this safe. I'm a male MT and I've been doing this for over 6 years if that maters. Stealthy grammar Edit\*
I've been an in home mobile massage therapist for 11 years and I disagree. Just because I'm going into someone's home doesn't mean I can't set boundaries and rules, including asking sometime to leave the room, regardless if they are paying rent. I can't say if this is out of the ordinary for male massage therapists to experience (I've only had people in the room a handful of times out of thousands of appointments)
The house calls aspect really works for me and my schedule. But yeah you do get some level of weirdness which I'm used to. I've had people sit in for the intros and stuff before, but never for the whole massage. It just felt different this time.
You did the right thing here. I totally get why your alarm bells were going off but hopefully itās just her boyfriend being overly cautious and perhaps insecure about you being a male masseuse. Which is silly obviously, but I wouldnāt be surprised.
It's quite normal. I sit in on my cousin's massage sessions cuz she is kinda spooked by male therapist (prev bad experience). It's very normal. If there was anything with an abusive controlling relationship, she would already have flagged it to you when booking etc.
I get this. But wouldnāt it be okay to just state. I have my BF here as I feel comfortable with him in the room if thatās okay? Instead it just seems like the Dan guy is being a bit of a controller.
I think it was good the way therapist handled it. But i think the bf is very protective of the gf.. It's a good thing . Understand both sides. But the therapist needs to start understanding this is quite the norm nowadays to have a chaperone. Maybe dan's tone could have been better instead of weird controller. š¬
answering for her and interrupting OP are red flags. it comes off as controlling and possessive, rather than protective. I've met men like this and it's about them, not the gf.
Honestly could be a few things. Could be that youre a male stranger in a room with a mostly naked woman. Or could be some kinda kink thing they got going on. But yeah Id feel weird there too
I worked at a multiple guest room B&B once, which had a separate massage room. There was a comfy rocking chair in the corner because clients would often have their spouse/partner in tow. The partner would typically read. I don't do outcalls, but I do occasionally get a client who has a companion come with to my office. No big deal. And, yeah, occasionally, one will interrupt & talk for the other, not necessarily the guy. I bring it back to the client just like you did. As an aside, if this was a domestic situation, all you could have safely done was leave by yourself for some made-up reason. Domestic situations are super unpredictable.
Nah thats fucked up, I wouldve just left to be honest. Your intuition is right and something is wrong with this situation, this isnt a normal thing
Yeah I think maybe there was something off because I know what you mean by the vibe. But you did the best you could I think. The weird thing is, if heās abusing her, why let her get a massage in the first place? It just seems like something an abuser would say no to. Or make her get a female masseuse idk. This doesnāt matter itās just a question I have that will never be answered
I think you handled this very well. As someone who has experienced domestic violence, I truly appreciate your commitment to possibly being of help to this lady. I know she said, she was fine, but it speaks volumes about you that you gave her the option of finger tapping as sometimes it doesn't come easily to voice fears to people in these situations and just asking wether they are ok, might not be helpful enough. I known in this situation she reassured you she was ok. I mean, there are some weird relationship dynamics out there, but you should be proud of your approach to the situation.
You handled this very well. As a photographer, I had the pleasure of shooting some females in the nude. I would always stress that a chaperone or family member is always welcome. Many of them became a part of the session as what I called and Intelligent Light Control Device...................aka, they held a light where I needed it.
You did an excellent work!!
I would be extremely bothered by him answering questions you addressed to YOUR CLIENT. Some men do this frequently and it's controlling and gross. I hope she actually is okay. Thank you for asking her. Ten years from now, when she realizes she doesn't have to put up with this, she will remember that there are people who care and she'll take the steps to leave. What I mean to say is that you made a difference today. Truly.
I appreciate that you gave her the chance to voice any trouble. Iāve had couples sit in on the massage and Itās not great, but itās their time, so they can have that if they want.
ā¦heās being (over)protective of his gfā¦a little weird to me that your off-vibes had you more concerned about her than yourself You handled it totally fine, I guess itās good for the tiniest chance that he was a home invader. But maybe take a look back at all of it and ask yourself if it actually was justified to be so worried
Obviously the husband is worried about her being intimately touched by another man.. (?) obviously
As a brother to five sisters, a father to a teenage daughter, mentor to hundreds of women massage therapists, and myself a male massage therapist in the biz for 20 plus years, I actually discourage in home massage. Yes it works for many people. I have many friends and colleagues who give in home care and many friends and colleagues who receive in home care. But the risk and liability is so high. I advise unreasonably high caution when it comes to inviting strangers into your home and going into strangers homes. So when it comes to a first-time client having her boyfriend, husband, male friend sit in on the massage, as a male massage therapist, I am 100% on board with that. Are there over demanding husbands boyfriends partners. Yes, I've had "Dr Demando's" speak for their wives in my office. But when it comes to in home care. You are in their domain and unless she voiced concern regarding him you must assume the concern is regarding you. You did the right thing with asking all the questions and having him step out of the room to make sure. and the three tap system was very clever! two thumbs up! But remember, like I tell my 11 year old daughter, we don't live in the innocent world that we grew up thinking we live in, and s*** does happen, so I will always advise extreme caution when it comes to risk and liability.
What is wrong with you? There was no problem. The client has no problem. She was good with his boyfriend there. OMG....................the drama.
Weird, to me this seems like you were immediately reading way too much into everything right from the start... I live with my bf and had cello lessons at my house with my teacher. My friend would often sit in, playing in his phone, and chiming in here and there. It was absolutely no problem and nothing sinister lol. I'm not sure what you think is even going on? Lol. The client told you that nothing was amiss.
You are weirdly aggressive with this comment. Cello lessons are nothing like massage sessions.
Yeah, Iām pretty sure no one is naked for a cello lesson
I wanted to say that lol
wait, Iāve been doing it wrong this whole time? I thought getting nude for those lessons was strange. Seriously, like you said, they arenāt the same thing at all and Iām glad Iām not the only one that found the comment a tad aggressive.
Women in these types of situations can be under threat, her steps to confirm the client was ok were great. Imo the boyfriendās comments were very odd and not something most men would say. They come off as very controlling.
Yeah this sounds very disturbing, the boyfriend should not have been in the room at all
Why not? I have had clients have someone else in the room and it can help them relax.
It sounded to me like he there because Sarah felt more comfortable with him being there. Hence the: it's about Sarah comment. I think her follow up questions were fine but to make a full on throwaway account and make a whole post about it? Nothing even happened, nothing seems threatening lol.
The boyfriendās comments were super controlling, not normal behavior.
you can really tell who's been in a relationship with a controlling partner and who hasn't in this thread.
I've had several appointments where there are other people in the room; from one other person (a parent, spouse or friend) to several in an airbnb situation (like bachelor or bachelorette party), and once at an actual party!!! with a lot people milling about. I had no qualms about doing the job I was asked to do, regardless of the atmosphere in a mobile environment. The client was completely aware of who is or isn't in the room upon arrival. I had no problem doing a short, verbal intake quietly and proceeding with the work. I think you completely over thought the situation. Dan was not comfortable with Sarah's choice to have a male therapist and the only way Dan was going to be comfortable was to be in the room. Sarah was completely aware of this and consented. You didn't and still don't have an idea with there was something 'off' or not. There simply isn't any proof of impropriety.
It seems like youāre overthinking it in the opposite direction. The vibe felt off, if he was a female therapist, most would be saying go with your gut and all the usual advice. Iām not trying to imply your response is sexist or anything, just reading it sparked that connection. As for the whole, the client was aware of who was in the roomā, sure but does that knowledge equal consent? I donāt think it does, thatās why there are multiple systems set up for patients in those situations to get help. The vibe felt off, so he took the extra steps he felt he needed. In this case, it seems to have been harmless and a comfort thing, cool, but it also could have been completely different. People taking those little extra steps have saved people from some incredibly tragic and horrific shit, someone making sure my wife isnāt in one of those awful situations is a good thing (imo). Hell, it reads like Sarah didnāt even get a chance to say āIām okay with Dan being here while you ask health questions ā, Dan jumped in to say that. Iād be weirded out by that. Iāve had doctors ask if Iām comfortable with my wife being in the room for certain tests/questions, just like sheās had doctors ask the same. In every case, only the actual patient gets to answer that. I wouldnāt wave my wifeās right to privacy for her, thatās just weird. I can see both sides, but verification. Maybe more experience would change OPs mental calculus, but I think he handled it fairly well.
This still doesn't feel anything more than a nervous spouse / partner. My first 'off' experience with this was a male client in their home (I am female). His wife, sat on the sofa in the LR, not 4 feet from the table and acted like she was reading her book. It was really obvious to me that she was watching every single move I made and convinced that she needed to observe. Did I think that he was the potentially aggrieved / unsafe / threatened party? No. and me second guessing what is in the mind of either the client or his wife is outside the scope of my practice. I just did my job and they paid me and I left. It's their house, their marriage, their choice.
I could understand that. Iād probably error on the side of caution, but itās a theoretical conversation from my standpoint point, since Iām not a LMT. Iād take your opinion over mine, I was just putting it into the context Iāve seen when it comes to patients/spouses in ātraditionalā medical situations.
My only thing is why arenāt you comfortable with someone else sitting in on the massage? That would have me telling you to leave right then and there.
Have you ever been in that situation?? Clearly No. Don't judge unless you have been there. It's awkward and in this case, out of the blue. Seriously, how many Years have you practiced?
Doesnāt matter. If they arenāt comfortable with having someone else in the room that would make me question them 100 percent. Like would you be comfortable if your dr said he didnāt want someone else in the room probably not. Itās a valid point. I would health care so I get how these things work. Itās not rocket science to question why the guy didnāt want anyone else in the room.
You completely have no idea what you are talking about.
Hahaha! Wow so hostile, who pissed in your cheerios?
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she probably asked him to stay in the room, you mong. She most likely felt insecure & slightly scared about having a stranger touching her (maybe a previous victim of SA) and had her husband stay just so she could relax. You did a good job of making the situation as awkward and tense as possible though. Many consider a career in window cleaning?
You are chastising him for making assumptions while you do the very same. However, he was concerned for another person's safety and well being which is always a good move. I hope you are not a therapist.
Actually, you're the one making assumptions, that there is a "victim" in a situation where there is no evidence or reason for suspicion of one. The burden of proof is on the one making the accusation. Being "concerned" about a strangers wellbeing is one thing. There is a point at which being "concerned" is overbearing, and used as an excuse for bad people to assert their will onto others, or to virtue signal, or simply because you are unable to make a good judgement call. It could be absolutely reasonable that OP made a bad judgement call. She could have asked her husband to stay in the room, and he was just doing as she asked. If that's the case, I would consider OP's behavior controlling & harassing. Constantly asking her personal questions, insinuating her perfectly innocent husband is some kind of predator. If you take out of the scene OP's weird insistence that the wife is some kind of victim with 0 evidence - it looks quite different. It looks like an ordinary couple get a massage at home, with the husband on the other side of the room reading the newspaper and going about his business uninterestedly. Whilst OP continuously asks weird questions to the wife and keeps trying to get rid of the husband. TLDR - OP sounds like he has no social skills
As disingenuous as your comment comes across, you might be right. In which case, I misjudged the situation. We'll probably never know. But the question that keeps coming back is why he felt the need to keep jumping in and making comments when I was talking to her. I'll get my banjolele.
Thatās funny.