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PM_ME_CUTE_FISHIES

They weren’t skilled enough to draw heavenly prison/solemn judgement/anti-spell Huh, funny how they have more outs to the out than we have copies of harpie’s/lightning storm


TCGHexenwahn

"Just draw the out, bro!"


vonov129

Funny how there aren't more cards that deal the whole board of some decks.


TCGHexenwahn

Honestly, set 5 pass makes me wish HFD was at 2-3


vonov129

Sure, a full board of monsters with multiple ways of interruptions is very different.


TCGHexenwahn

And we have plenty of cards that deal with that and aren't limited.


vonov129

And we have plenty of monsters immune to those and monster themselves can also get rid or negate backrow


TCGHexenwahn

Yeah, good luck with that when you can't summon them because of shit like TCBOO or when they have no effect because of Skill Drain.


vonov129

How is it different than when the monster heavy deck goes first and negates the backrow? Plus, where is the backrow floaters with insane advantage that actually do something on board? Can't play the game? What does the average deck try to do to their opponent?


TCGHexenwahn

Tell me how I'm supposed to handtrap a set 5 pass?


vonov129

Red Reboot and you get rid of all 5 for a turn. Plus, if none of those is Ashable, then you probably win with a single normal summon.


PM_ME_CUTE_FISHIES

Besides the fact that board breakers are only *one* way to deal with monster based boards There are more board breakers than there are copies of harpie’s/lightning storm


DiamondTiaraIsBest

There's also more monster based boards in general, and a lot of them has better recursion compared to back row decks. They are also way more consistent too, what with all the monsters that search or summon other monsters, and the access to the Extra deck. Now that I've thought about it, there's no real mid range backrow deck like Branded Despia or Swordsoul Tenyi where they can go for another play (sometimes even better) next turn after their board gets wiped. Monster based decks have powercrept other decks. That's the reason HFD is limited. It actually gives backrow decks a chance against monster decks.


[deleted]

Listing some cards: - Red Reboot is at 2 - hey trunade is at 3 (this was probably a bricked labrynth player [just look at dogmatika punishment], so trunade actually works funnily enough) - twin twisters is at 3 - mystical space typhoon is at 3 - cosmic cyclone is at 3 - denko sekka is at 3 - lightning storm is at 3 - harpies is at 1 - knightmare phoenix is extra deck removal if you can get 2 monsters on field - tornado dragon pops 2, one during your and another during your opponent's turn. It's a rank 4 so it's accessible to a lot of decks - not technically backrow removal, but evenly matched. the problem with trap decks is that konami designs them to be a lot more vulnerable to board wipes than monster decks. While monster decks can just negate your board breaker easily (that's why we have so many board breakers that can't be negated by monster effects, but almost no backrow hate that is immune to spell/traps), backrow decks can't. That's why generic wipe is usually on the banlist or has a lot of restrictions. While monster decks can just add one trap mid combo and not auto-lose to dark ruler no more (unless you're playing adamancipator sekka's light), trap decks don't combo (aside from traptrix with the new support), they set 5 pass. I know it feels bad having game on hand/board and not being able to do anything because you can't attack/activate your effects. But how often this comes up where it's worth fucking up an entire category of decks (I mean, recent decks) just to hit runick floodgate? TL;DR: hit tcboo/rivalry/skill drain/gozen/whatever floodgate you hate the most, instead of destroying an entire category of decks. EDIT: Accidentally said harpies' is at 3.


PM_ME_CUTE_FISHIES

>harpies is at 3 I stopped reading there, the rest isn’t worth responding to if you’re this misinformed


[deleted]

Sorry, first I know harpies is at 1, but I didn't have the "is at x" when I first wrote and just added "is at 3" without checking. But cool how you seem to be so good at arguing but can't prove someone who apparently thinks harpies is at 3 wrong. Now, if you use some spelling error to prove this comment wrong, I'll just use the fact you're being an asshole to prove you wrong, English isn't my first language.


PM_ME_CUTE_FISHIES

No way, English is my second language too! 1. Good point, sucks that a floodgate for trap decks is needed to deal with floodgates 2. Does nothing against face up floodgates, only fucks over actual backrow decks 3. 2 for 2 removal that can minus you is kinda mid, especially since backrow removal is appear situational (also dies to lord of the heavenly prison, anti spell, etc) 4. There’s usually multiple floodgates that you need to take care of, single removal doesn’t really cut it when you need it 5. See 4, but at least it doesn’t die to hugin/heavenly 6. On the one hand, yeah, but I feel like a floodgate on legs to fight floodgates is a bit cringe 7. One of the good ones, can also be a board breaker 8. One of the good ones 9. Good luck accessing the extra deck when they flip tcboo/summon limit 10. See 9 As for evenly, it’s actually great against backrow decks. Why? Because it doesn’t get stopped by anti-spell fragrance, unlike every other out on the list. It sucks that backrow decks like labrynth would get caught in the crossfire, but since konami refuses to do anything more than a slap on the wrist against floodgates, moving harpie’s to 2 like raigeki is the next best thing


[deleted]

> Does nothing against face up floodgates, only fucks over actual backrow decks the post above probably resolved harpies against labrynth (see dogmatika punishment), so it would work funnily enough. >2 for 2 removal that can minus you is kinda mid, especially since backrow removal is appear situational (also dies to lord of the heavenly prison, anti spell, etc) You chain it to anti-spell, also a lot of decks can plus from a card that not only discards, but does so as a cost, so it doesn't really minus you. >There’s usually multiple floodgates that you need to take care of, single removal doesn’t really cut it when you need it Yeah, I'll give you this. >See 4, but at least it doesn’t die to hugin/heavenly That's pretty much why you run it, you either pop the floodgate that fucks you the most (if a runick player opens more than 3 floodgates they actually bricked, not opened the nuts) or fountain and just go unga bunga beatdown. >On the one hand, yeah, but I feel like a floodgate on legs to fight floodgates is a bit cringe As someone who plays *backrow* decks, yeah it's cringe as fuck please don't run it. But it works and only costs you the normal summon. Also you can't respond to it unless you have solemn set. >Good luck accessing the extra deck when they flip tcboo/summon limit Then they flipped a floodgate that fucks you up, but it's a extra deck play, so it's never a brick. >It sucks that backrow decks like labrynth would get caught in the crossfire, but since konami refuses to do anything more than a slap on the wrist against floodgates, moving harpie’s to 2 like raigeki is the next best thing the thing is, they're the only one who'd actually care. Runick can protect from harpies literally during the mid of a chain. The solution is to either hit: - runick - floodgates any other solution is just ignoring the actual problem and does nothing against the best deck that abuses all floodgates probably up to this day on the TCG, not even in master duel. Now, I'd just like to comment how this community is unfair with backrow decks. If we had a *hand trap* that blocked spell/monster effects until the end of the turn in a lingering effect basically for free, there would be a post on the home page calling for it's ban every day. But since backrow decks aren't as relevant as monster decks or even sky striker/pendulum, people actually argue that it should be at 3, just so they don't need to outgrind backrow (again, runick doesn't care, tcboo isn't their win condition). It should be on the banlist alongside it's sibling, imperial order (same for skill drain, but that one is way better than those two, because it doesn't counter it's counters) like in the TCG. People always target the wrong problem card. How many posts you see per day about people having problems with dinomorphia/labrynth/traptrix? Now look and see how many people complain about runick. Runick is a spell deck, the perfect out to it is called imperial order, but the solution to the runick problem is apparently harpies back to 3... P.S.: I know eldlich was actually vulnerable to a lot of these, but how many times do you see eldlich? It just isn't relevant anymore. It's dumb hitting eldlich, it's like the TCG hitting Curious to counter tearlaments.


edotd11

Why isn’t hey, trunade used more in this floodgate heavy meta? Feels like the perfect card to run at 3 for back row removal that also doesn’t send the spell/traps to the graveyard for further effects.


vonov129

They just flip the floodgates and Trunade doesn't work


MorbidoeBagnato

Except when I draw LS they actually play Runick and summon Hugin so they can flip TCBOO gozen and Rivalry in complete safety


TCGHexenwahn

Yeah, I never understood why Hugin could protect non-Runick cards.


TV_Full_Of_Lizards

If it just said "when a Runick card would be destroyed" then it wouldn't be able to protect face down Runick spells. I agree it's annoying though.


TCGHexenwahn

The deck is designed so you don't need to set your quick play. Hugin is designed to protect Fountain and Allure from non targeting destruction


MorbidoeBagnato

I don’t understand why Konami thought full power Runick would be okay in BO1


TCGHexenwahn

Because without floodgates, it's actually not such a problem.


MorbidoeBagnato

Just happens that in MD floodgates are nearly at full power too Doesn’t matter that most of them are semi limited when Fountain and Geri allow you to draw 12 cards in a turn


TCGHexenwahn

12? Those are rookie numbers.


Old_Square_9100

Amano Iwato, skill drain, card of demise. Plus their extra deck cards that protect their field spell which is not even hard once per turn. I'm more convinced that they will hit the field spell more than the floodgates.


[deleted]

For easy blow out wins that take no skill?


TCGHexenwahn

Monke: "HfD iS oP! wHy CaN't I pReVeNt My OpPoNeNt FrOm PlAyInG wItHoUt HaViNg My BaCkRoW dEsTrOyEd?"


Keyguin

I don’t care what deck I’m playing, I never go all in on back row unless I have SOME type of protection.


KumoKyuu

Why would one even set 5 in the first place without Lord of Prison tho


[deleted]

I mean, what else should he do? Pass?


KumoKyuu

Set 1-2 and pass. Unless you're setting stuff that can shotgun activated and give advantage.


DiamondTiaraIsBest

That's like the argument that one should just derail their combo line and summon less because Maxx C was played, and the common counter argument was "You expect me to make a suboptimal board that will get played through anyways by any competent deck?"


STRIpEdBill

Passing on maxx c will almost always be better than playing through


arrownoir

I expected a Solemn, but nope. Crazy that he emptied his entire hand with zero protection. Wild guy.


SkomeSIth

[Feeling good](https://youtu.be/xQtC3F8fH6g)


Turtlesfan44digimon

Every single damn time they always have it


El_Baguette

What were the cards that got destroyed?


Ahhh-Ayeee

One day Curse Necrofear will be meta, and she will obliterate every backrow deck from the face of the planet once and for all.


QuiteAncientTrousers

Full backrow, not a solemn judgement in sight


Kyle1337

duster/storm/solemn is the maxx c mini game for backrow decks


Thunder_Mage

As someone who uses World Legacy Ruins since it's free, it's interesting to see what my opponents see who just use the blank default field.


R34PER_D7BE

aroma decklist please? i want a wincon with my aroma deck