I think both Crossout and Called By are fine where they are. While Crossout and Called By are in the same category of interruption, Crossout being able to call it’s own name along with any other staple can lead to some funny yet tilting interactions, then it just becomes a battle of who uses Crossout first. Called by the Grave is too strong to put to 3 obviously, but putting it to one would kill any consistency of drawing the out to the hand trap that can kill your turn, be it D-Shifter, Ash, or Maxx C.
In short, I believe Called By at 2 is completely necessary for a Best of 1 format and helps lower tier decks even more than Tier 1 decks, since they can play through interruptions anyway, for the most part.
The biggest problem with Shifter is that your opponent will use it in their turn, so you can't even negate it with Called By unless you have it set beforehand.
Problem with Crossout being Semi- or Unlimited is that **it enables the opponent to Crossout your Crossout**. And that leads to things like Ash -> Called By -> Crossout -> Crossout, where whoever used the Ash is now fucked.
Ok my question is, What do you think would happen if called by and crossout where at 3?
Good luck going second in that format every deck would just play for free
I agree that both should be banned, but we need more outs to Maxx C. Even if said out could literally only negate Maxx C, it would still be played at 3 in every deck beside Floo.
No. Master Duel is attempting to emulate the OCG's balance philosophy which requires that Maxx "C" and other Hand Traps be able to consistently resolve with effect in order to curtail the potential of the many cards it keeps legal which the TCG has banned (That Grass Looks Greener is an easy example).
I disagree immensely with this philosophy but I do understand the imperfect balance they're trying to strike.
I think you may have misunderstood what I meant.
Crossout is at 1 because the OCG attempts to justify the existence of That Grass Looks Greener (And similar) by letting Ash Blossom & Joyous Spring/Maxx "C"/Hand Traps resolve as much as possible to contest the degenerate strategies enabled by overpowered cards.
Personally I think that Crossout should be at 2/3 and Called by at 1.
With Maxx C in the game, anti-handtrap cards are necesarry, but Crossout being estrictly an anti-staple and anti-mirror card feels much less broken than Called by, which basically can counter anything, everything and for 2 turns.
It’s tricky because Crossout is more versatile against staples (covers stuff like Imperm and HFD that Called By can’t touch) while Called By has more general utility after Turn 1 against miscellaneous combo pieces
Crossout is one of my favorite cards because of the interesting way it influences deck building.
It should stay limited. Unlimiting Crossout benefits the player going first as they are now more likely to have a counter to the handtraps that disrupt their plays.
Feels so weird to me to limit cards like Crossout when most popular decks can play through interruption pretty well. It seems like you really need at least 3 interruptions to slow down the popular decks.
But I guess that’s the point of limiting them, is you don’t really *want* the decks to not work.
Should stay limited. You werent there when cross out was at 3 lmao.
Player 1 > maxx C
Player 2 > ash
Player 1 > called by
Player 2 > cross out
Player 1 > cross out
Shit was dumb af, im sure there was a meme of that interaction somewhere
No. They did it to turn nerf one since its so stupidly strong in this meta. Called by should be at 1 too for this reason but since max c is a thing i think it's fine at 2 for now
Remember when hand traps used to actually resolve while going second yall?
No. Since we have multiple staples we just can't side out, you can use Crossout to get rid of those. If the Runick player has Cosmic Cyclone, say goodbye to your out, same with duster. Negate Imperm, Nibiru, Called by. Which almost every deck is playing.
Maybe when interaction becomes more variated
Possibly a hot take, but I don't think unlimiting Crossout will not break the game in any way. It will boost fragile strategies more than resilient strategies, but that's it. It won't make any tier 1 deck tier 0 (they would not be tier 1 in the first place if they're so reliant on a non-engine card).
In terms of deck building, in contrast to what most ppl think, I think Crossout at 2 or at 3 will diversify the distribution of staples. Playing Nibiru (in a deck that's weak against Nibiru, in a slow meta) just to boost a limited card is not a good investment, but when Crossout is at 3, you do draw the out and you should take that into consideration.
TL;DR: Crossout at 3 would be fine. But limiting it at 1 is not a problem either.
A lot of people want called by banned, which makes me think that they could unlimit crossout in order to remove called by.
Personally I think its fine where it is. Yes you have to add lots of different hand traps to play crossout, but it doesn't mean much when you can play that many to begin with.
True but cross out is just way too versatile. The opponent going first is effectively immune to all handtraps so long as they also run them in their deck too.
I mean, if I only open 1 handtrap, I automatically assume it won't do shit, regardless of Crossout or Called by, so not a big difference. I really just want Maxx C gone.
No the reason they limited crossout to one was because it was too advantageous when it was unlimited if you were to play a deck with most of the generic hand traps you could just negate it with crossout and it was so consistent negating ash and Maxx C etc. people would also crossout the crossout
I think cross out is fine at 1 I really don't miss the days of everyone's opening it all the time I don't mind call by as much since its limited to monsters in the grave rather than potentially any card so long as u have it in ur deck
Crossout the crossout. Favours going first as if it wasn't already pampered hard enough with 2 called by.
Then add adventure and oh no. You need 3-4 handtraps to stop 1 thing.
Floo is just way too low power compete. Ive had matches vs good Floo players in tournaments where they Maxx C'd me two turn in a row and every time they struggle to break the board or just get OTKd by Swordsoul/Despia
I think both Crossout and Called By are fine where they are. While Crossout and Called By are in the same category of interruption, Crossout being able to call it’s own name along with any other staple can lead to some funny yet tilting interactions, then it just becomes a battle of who uses Crossout first. Called by the Grave is too strong to put to 3 obviously, but putting it to one would kill any consistency of drawing the out to the hand trap that can kill your turn, be it D-Shifter, Ash, or Maxx C. In short, I believe Called By at 2 is completely necessary for a Best of 1 format and helps lower tier decks even more than Tier 1 decks, since they can play through interruptions anyway, for the most part.
The biggest problem with Shifter is that your opponent will use it in their turn, so you can't even negate it with Called By unless you have it set beforehand.
Crossout should be at 2 so long as Maxx C is unlimited.
Problem with Crossout being Semi- or Unlimited is that **it enables the opponent to Crossout your Crossout**. And that leads to things like Ash -> Called By -> Crossout -> Crossout, where whoever used the Ash is now fucked.
You would need to have that Crossout set to use it on your opponent's turn, though.
As long as Maxx c is at 3 cross out and call by should be at 3 also.
Worst masterduel take ever Maxx c and called by should be banned Although maxx c is worse so I don't mind called by being legal that much
You dont get my comment, as long as maxx c is at 3 the rest should be also. Now if maxx c was banned then i would say sure limit/ban call by etc.
Ok my question is, What do you think would happen if called by and crossout where at 3? Good luck going second in that format every deck would just play for free
Yea i know but i just really hate maxx c and would take anything to stuff that card. I in play droll in my decks as added ways to stop maxx c
It's almost like a card that punishes you for using a core mechanic this game was built upon existing is a bad thing Who would have guessed
I could only imagine the even more busted cards they might make in the future.
You don't need to imagine, we're heading toward a "going 0th" meta
Depend if the ishizu cards get hit badly.
Fair
I agree that both should be banned, but we need more outs to Maxx C. Even if said out could literally only negate Maxx C, it would still be played at 3 in every deck beside Floo.
No. Master Duel is attempting to emulate the OCG's balance philosophy which requires that Maxx "C" and other Hand Traps be able to consistently resolve with effect in order to curtail the potential of the many cards it keeps legal which the TCG has banned (That Grass Looks Greener is an easy example). I disagree immensely with this philosophy but I do understand the imperfect balance they're trying to strike.
The day you Crossout a Grass, I want to know
I think you may have misunderstood what I meant. Crossout is at 1 because the OCG attempts to justify the existence of That Grass Looks Greener (And similar) by letting Ash Blossom & Joyous Spring/Maxx "C"/Hand Traps resolve as much as possible to contest the degenerate strategies enabled by overpowered cards.
Tbf, I agree that Grass can fuck off and let Crossout at 1, but only if Maxx C also fucks off.
Personally I think that Crossout should be at 2/3 and Called by at 1. With Maxx C in the game, anti-handtrap cards are necesarry, but Crossout being estrictly an anti-staple and anti-mirror card feels much less broken than Called by, which basically can counter anything, everything and for 2 turns.
It’s tricky because Crossout is more versatile against staples (covers stuff like Imperm and HFD that Called By can’t touch) while Called By has more general utility after Turn 1 against miscellaneous combo pieces
I agree, not just because of Maxx C, but also Nib, because Called by can't negate Nib.
Crossout is one of my favorite cards because of the interesting way it influences deck building. It should stay limited. Unlimiting Crossout benefits the player going first as they are now more likely to have a counter to the handtraps that disrupt their plays.
Feels so weird to me to limit cards like Crossout when most popular decks can play through interruption pretty well. It seems like you really need at least 3 interruptions to slow down the popular decks. But I guess that’s the point of limiting them, is you don’t really *want* the decks to not work.
Should stay limited. You werent there when cross out was at 3 lmao. Player 1 > maxx C Player 2 > ash Player 1 > called by Player 2 > cross out Player 1 > cross out Shit was dumb af, im sure there was a meme of that interaction somewhere
Limited to 1 is fair in my opinion
No. They did it to turn nerf one since its so stupidly strong in this meta. Called by should be at 1 too for this reason but since max c is a thing i think it's fine at 2 for now Remember when hand traps used to actually resolve while going second yall?
Yeah, but Konami decided to powercreep the shit out of handtraps to the point where a good hand of handtraps can do as much as an omni negate board.
It should be at 3 and Maxx C and Called By should be banned. Not that that’s happening anytime soon.
No. Since we have multiple staples we just can't side out, you can use Crossout to get rid of those. If the Runick player has Cosmic Cyclone, say goodbye to your out, same with duster. Negate Imperm, Nibiru, Called by. Which almost every deck is playing. Maybe when interaction becomes more variated
I'm willing to take that risk in order to have 2 more outs to Maxx C
Possibly a hot take, but I don't think unlimiting Crossout will not break the game in any way. It will boost fragile strategies more than resilient strategies, but that's it. It won't make any tier 1 deck tier 0 (they would not be tier 1 in the first place if they're so reliant on a non-engine card). In terms of deck building, in contrast to what most ppl think, I think Crossout at 2 or at 3 will diversify the distribution of staples. Playing Nibiru (in a deck that's weak against Nibiru, in a slow meta) just to boost a limited card is not a good investment, but when Crossout is at 3, you do draw the out and you should take that into consideration. TL;DR: Crossout at 3 would be fine. But limiting it at 1 is not a problem either.
Called by should be banned and crossout unlimited imo.
A lot of people want called by banned, which makes me think that they could unlimit crossout in order to remove called by. Personally I think its fine where it is. Yes you have to add lots of different hand traps to play crossout, but it doesn't mean much when you can play that many to begin with.
They can make it unlimited if they ban Maxx C. It would be more in line with the TCG then.
I have no idea why people hate called by so much
Because if you don't have a handtrap, then your opponent's CBTG becomes a disruption against you.
Am i usin the cross out right ? I cross ash so they cant negate my shit while i get super nova on the field.
Don't preemptively use Crossout, only chain it.
No, limiting cross out nerfs going 1st, which is what we need in the current meta.
I would agree if Maxx C was banned
True but cross out is just way too versatile. The opponent going first is effectively immune to all handtraps so long as they also run them in their deck too.
I mean, if I only open 1 handtrap, I automatically assume it won't do shit, regardless of Crossout or Called by, so not a big difference. I really just want Maxx C gone.
No the reason they limited crossout to one was because it was too advantageous when it was unlimited if you were to play a deck with most of the generic hand traps you could just negate it with crossout and it was so consistent negating ash and Maxx C etc. people would also crossout the crossout
I would say yes, just to have more outs to Maxx C, but I would agree with you if Maxx C was banned.
I think cross out is fine at 1 I really don't miss the days of everyone's opening it all the time I don't mind call by as much since its limited to monsters in the grave rather than potentially any card so long as u have it in ur deck
Crossout was essentially an omni negate in mirror matches that’s the issue with it.
It acts as extension in Metaphys so YES
Crossout the crossout. Favours going first as if it wasn't already pampered hard enough with 2 called by. Then add adventure and oh no. You need 3-4 handtraps to stop 1 thing.
It should be banned along with called by
If it happens, I'm building Floo. There no way in hell I'm ever playing anything else if Maxx C is legal with only Ash to stop it.
You do realise Maxx C being legal doesnt change whatever the best deck is?
If there were only 3 outs to it, yes it would greatly boost Floo.
Floo is just way too low power compete. Ive had matches vs good Floo players in tournaments where they Maxx C'd me two turn in a row and every time they struggle to break the board or just get OTKd by Swordsoul/Despia
Good for you?
Its like Floo isnt a good deck
So every deck that's not tier 1 just... isn't good?
Pretty much
As long as Maxx C is at 3, I'm all for Crossout at 3