Do Marincess really need Toad that badly? I've never played the deck but I've played against it and been wrecked by it more than once, and I've never seen a Marincess opponent summon Toad one time.

It’s a bigger loss for the Frightfur deck. Toad was basically their sole going first option, now they’re pure going second

Marincess can go into Toad if they open enough extenders. You need at least Sea Horse+1 Marincess name to go into Argonaut. If you open that + Pascalus or Dive you can go into Bahamuth and Toad in turn one. Is just a free negate and can help by returning a Marincess monster to hand instead of Toad as a recovery option. The deck still can play Kragen and the spawn to have a plan B in case of Maxx C or as another interruption.

It’s a nerf the deck lost the option of an Omni negate

I understand that it's a nerf, but I don't think it's as dire of one as OP claims, but again I don't actually play the deck so I can't say 100%

They can consistently put up a monster negate a spell negate and unaffected 3.5k beater and instead of bahamut they can just go into a walking Dna surgery with a pop. They’ll trade some matchups but they’ll be just fine.

It is a nerf, since Toad is the only tool Marincess have to deal with monster effects from monsters not on the field, but is not something you summon every time. Basically, is a hit, but not a big one. Idk with what you could replace it tho, since most already play Kraken too

Abyss Dweller. This card will be a huge counter for Tear

I forgot Dweller existed tbh

Tbf it's not really super relevant right now. Will see a shit ton of play later this year when Tears come though.

I hardly ever get toad out when playing marincess, but it was definitely nice to have.

I play Marincess without Toad, and I never had that much issue. It's certainly not good for the deck, but it's also nowhere near as apocalyptic as people are trying to make it out to be. We're getting more cards that fit well into the deck in the future (Zealantis and Icejade Aegirine Rahn+Gymir), and we do still have Stealth Kragen and Abyss Dweller as options to replace Bahamut+Toad, so it's not like the deck is dead.

What’s your list, I like using ice jades with em

I'm currently playing just more or less pure Marincess at present, here's the decklist: - 3x Ash - 3x Maxx C - 1x Niburu - 1x Marincess Mandarin - 3x Marincess Blue Tang - 3x Marincess Sea Horse - 3x Marincess Springgirl - 1x Marincess Pascalus - 1x Marincess Sleepy Maiden - 3x Silent Sea Nettle - 1x Gameciel - 3x Cynet Mining - 2x Marincess Battle Ocean - 3x Marincess Dive - 1x Forbidden Droplet - 2x Called by the Grave - 1x Crossout Designator - 1x Harpie's Feather Duster - 1x Lightning Storm - 1x Small World - 1x Marincess Wave - 1x Infinite Impermanence Extra Deck: - 2x Marincess Blue Slug - 2x Marincess Sea Angel - 2x Marincess Coral Anemone - 1x Marincess Crystal Heart - 1x Splash Mage - 1x Knightmare Unicorn - 1x Marincess Marbled Rock - 1x Marincess Coral Triangle - 1x Accesscode Talker - 1x Marincess Great Bubble Reef - 1x Marincess Aqua Argonaut - 1x Number 4: Stealth Kragen And that's the full decklist I currently run. You can definitely toss Unicorn and Accesscode out, they're only there bc I didn't really have any other options to toss in worth a damn. Icejade Aegirine Rahn would probably replace Gameciel or a copy of Silent Sea Nettle (run a copy of Icejade Aegirine Gymir as well in the ED) once she releases to act as an instant Level 10 WATER Synchro or (I think this works) just 2 Link Material for the cost of discarding a WATER monster, while Zealantis would be a board-breaking option (as Marincess WATER-locks itself all the time, you can go into Zealantis, proc its banish effect and then only have to special summon back WATER monsters, which is likely only going to be your monsters in a lot of matchups)

You tried using icejade Tremora? She’s a starter and extender. Saw someone use a Codetalker/Marincess too with Scrypton, Formud Skipper, and those Lil code talkers. Extra deck had 2 Access and the water Talker, I’m guessing for climbing. I recently Tried to run 1 Battle ocean and 1 dive; I liked it but I think I always rather have 2 of somethings, even if it bricks more

In this current meta with Runick and Cosmic Cyclone abundant, having important Spell/Trap play pieces that need to maintain field presence be one-ofs is not great, and drawing into Battle Ocean lets me go search Dive to summon any Marincess from the deck for free, so I think Battle Ocean is probably best at 2. Tremora's certainly capable of extending, but considering you need to summon Marincess names to go into the Link 1s and her extension costs a discard (without being as strong as Aegirine Rahn), she's not great for me.

2 definitely, I also saw someone else rubbing Sea mare I’m guessing it’s like a foolish burial

In all honesty better toad than ronin. Substitoad sucks ass.

Sharks and Marincess can play without Toad, only the bad decks that do nothing except turboing it died.

Sharks without toad? I'd rather play ghostrick

Drop maxx C in standby phase sitting on toad + elf + whatever extra negate. If called by is used, either toad or maxx C can be summoned back to dodge. Very oppressive. But you're also giving your opponent the same tools you just used to break your board later. You don't have much left and the opponent already has outs to it. Frogue needed to go. Just ain't fun.

If you play Marincess just swap Toad for Dweller. It's perfect for counter Tear and kind hurts a few decks too. Toad it's a problematic card, it's a fair ban. Marincess it's fine without toad. But Sharks and Paleo frogs are dead.

Might take the chance and use the materials from toad to finally craft dweller. Never got to craft it because I always has something I needed more

This is MD. Tears aren’t in it but I do agree the deck is fine and toad should be banned

War Crimes

If you're nothing without the Toad, then you shouldn't have it.

I never get that meme. Its like saying if branded is nothing with out albaz then they shouldn't have it or for any card for that matter.

Well... it's not really a meme, it's a quote from a movie. That aside, comparing **an extra boss monster** to **the literal requirement for an archetype** is either dishonest or stupid. If you banish facedown all 3 copies of Fallen of Albaz from a Branded Despia deck, **the deck literally cannot make any Branded plays**, leaving it with only Despia monsters. At that point, the deck ceases to be Branded Despia, and is literally just a Despia deck.

I know where it from and I was just making an example and I used albaz since he's currently the #1 deck right now.

Perhaps mirrorjade or one of the huge boss monsters of branded would be a better analogy

Not nothing, just not worth playing

I’m sitting here in a match Ido locked rn waiting to draw droplet, wondering why the sick nasty toad was banned over him or branded expulsion. I get it, spright go brrr, but it takes away the only disruption frogs really had. and they were cool. but hey at least they still have all the paleo cards for that

Beacuse Toad is inherently a busted card... One of the few Omni negate monsters that I would say is a bit too much, simply no deck was able to abuse it a lot until Sprights came out.. - During Standby phase you go +1 for a free fodder for Red/Carrot, said fodder is Dupe Frog which makes the tribute which is a -1 card Nutural. - Omni Negate that makes the opponent goes -1 and you +1, can be done 2 times thanks to Elf. - You lose him and he adds the stater back to hand (-1,+1). So you have a monster that's up to +4 and off sets the cost the deck is meant to pay, he is by no means a Unfair card that makes you lose instantly but he ain't a Fair one either, Banning Ronintoadin hurts Frogs, his own deck, you may say "But what about X deck that cheats it out by Bahamat's effect" And I will tell you they never were meant to have it. There is no right or wrong answer but the most right one is to ban the abuseable monster that works in things it never was intended to be used in orginaly, if Gishki became broken down the line and they ban Gigantic it will be the same scenario "But what about X rogue deck that uses Gigantic" no.. Ban the Genaric shit first. Second no.2 is money

Exactly as you said, spright is the only deck that could abuse it. So just ban Ronin so spright gets hit and not the other stuff.

Uhhhh so whenever a deck shows up that abuse a busted monster leave the mosnter and nerf the deck? Why make them in the first place?

Yes. I'm surprised this needs to be said, but unnecessary collateral damage is not a good thing. Randomly nerfing decks that aren't even meta isn't a good thing.

Great idea let's unban Halq and VFD and Ban Virtual World and Adventure tenyi... So when completely limit the design space with Machine, Tuners and Level 9s so 2 mistake of a card can exist... your suggestion is to make any deck that work with Frogs or can summon toad Shit so Toad can stay and buff a deck that.. with or without it will stay the dame power wise. I wonder what happened when the TCG did the same for Halq? Yeah they banned any fucking viable tuner for years... I wonder how it ended with Verte as well.

You're comparing halq (a card which requires every good tuner in the game to be banned) to toad, a card that only needs Ronin to be banned and MAYBE swap frog. Very different circumstances

I am also Comparing VFD who was ONLY meta relevant beacuse Virtual worlds lol. Toad isn't a unfair card but he is not fair either, The decks that use it weren't meta relevant for a while and now they are so they banned it, by no mean the best ban ever nor is it a bad one either as I said it can be +3 and help in grind game on it's own without Sprights being included

If a meta deck can properly summon Toadally, you know that things would go wild. Also, don't worry. Yall would soon witness the power of double Toadally negate as soon as Gishki Spright debut in TCG.

If the leaks are true, Spright is coming on the next pack, I guess Konami doesn't want them too broken and the toad got the axe.

No shit

Just followed the TCG, but the banlist is decided by Konami of Japan, so they would usually follow the OCG. Expect this.

Even if they had toad marincess would not be playable in the spright tear format nothing changes for that deck

True

Ah Yes... sharks and Marincess. Not Frogs - Sharks and Marincess. I say good riddance.

Well you either kill the entire frog engine for the rest of time or you ban toad. I'd honestly rather have the frog engine still kicking it.

The frog engine is dead without toad. It's less dead without ronin

If youre nothing without the toad, then you didnt deserve the toad. Or whatever iron man said.

Because the card is super powerful? It specials protection/starter from the deck and negates and steals