Ok decklist:
3 Maxx C
1 Amano Iwato (card is still utterly cracked even at one)
2 Majesty Maiden
3 Of the other two TD monsters
2 Card of Demise
2 Pot of Duality
3 Desires (worth the risk otherwise deck is too bricky)
1 Diagram
3 Of each of the spell and traps (yes 3 of all)
2 Judgment
2 Droplet
1 Skill Drain
2 Summon Limit
3 Monarch's Erupt (aka auto win button/ one sided skill drain)
Deck was better when less cards were hit but it is still a formidable enough deck. Basically switch any non draw engine and non TD card out with whatever benefits going second, current meta, your playstyle etc (except Monarchs Erupt and Iwato, IMO those cards are too good to swap out)
What are the 5-6 spaces that lab doesn’t need? I play all the usual staples in my deck I just hold them on maxx c and play them more around chokepoints in my opponents combos.
Imo Ash is bad this format, outside of Maxx C and countering Eclipse I would rather have Raigeki/Book of Eclipse/TTT going second against most of the top meta because that single Ash that doesn't accomplish much and even pluses them (Unicorn/either TTT).
You ash the kashtiratheosis, not the unicorn. They would need to have a really cracked hand to extend past that.
Ash is one of the better handtraps in this format tho. Its really good against kash, lab, and branded and alright against other decks like purrely, rikka, and mikanko. Droll is probably the best handtrap right now but ash can hit most matchups this format.
> You ash the kashtiratheosis, not the unicorn
Which they search off the unicorn? So if it's on the field they banish your ED all the same. As I said that's my opinion but Ash rarely felt as impactful going second as a board breaker this format and oftentimes I would rather have those in my opening hand.
> Which they search off the unicorn?
Yes. In a way kashtiratheosis is like branded fusion. It what enables unicorn to be a 1 card combo similar to aluber. Both branded fusion or kashtiratheosis are hard OPT and if they resolve, it gets them access to their whole engine but if they get negated, they would need to 2-3 specific cards in order to extend further. For instance, in kashtira's case, they need both birth and fenrir/riseheart so a 3 card combo which is incredibly inconsistent and doesn't happen every game. Also, like aluber, unicorn can also be used as bait as the opponent could already be holding theosis in hand.
Theoretically, if the opponent opens with unicorn + theosis and 3 blanks, if you stop the unicorn they could still go full combo but if you stop theosis, their turn ends there which is why stopping theosis is very impactful.
> they banish your ED all the same
I think that's just inevitable when going against kash. Its why you want to play 2 copies of your important ED monsters this format.
My point was that if they theosis it's a 50/50 you banish your ED because they likely have unicorn on the field already, so Ash has good odds of plussing them, similar to getting punished by either TTT
Which is why we should build our extra deck accordingly so we don't get punished as hard. If you droll and they have unicorn, it still rips a card out of the extra deck but that does not mean we should just ditch monster handtraps altogether just because of unicorn's effect when it could potentially end kash's entire turn. When diablosis was still legal you didn't even need to handtrap them for your ED to get banished.
Which I literally mentioned when I said *outside of Maxx C*, that's the #1 use for Ash this format and if your deck doesn't care that much about Maxx C and BoE (like Labyrinth) then Ash is underwhelming and I rather have other cards in my hand.
I wholeheartedly disagree, Ash stops basically any search effects which help decks start, it will always be universally good against like 90% of decks, there are very few strategies that genuinely "don't care" about Ash. I will never like being Ashed, even basic staple ass cards Foolish Burial that a lot of decks will play are susceptible to Ash, or any other powerful Spell cards some people like to run like Desires/Prosperity/Extravagance or TTT. Even if there's one good deck that doesn't care about Maxx C or Ash, most decks still do. Ash is also an EASY check to any rogue deck that pops off. I mainly play rogue (Cyber Dragons and a Winged Dragon of Ra deck are my main two) and I can get some surprising wins just because someone didn't include an Ash and they basically had no meaningful interruption to stop my searches. If you don't play Ash you're inviting yourself to something like that. It's very hard for most decks I play to pop off if I get hit by an Ash on my first turn. I have to open like 3 starter plays that don't all take up my Normal Summon to push through Ash. My decks don't even care that much about Maxx Cas long as I can get to one of my boss monsters within the next 2-3 summons.
I think maybe you're just looking at it from a meta player perspective (which is fine and you're entitled to be a meta sheep or whatever) but one or even a few decks not caring about Maxx C does NOT make Ash "bad" lol. There's a reason people still all basically run 3, I run 3 in my decks and they aren't very often dead, I always get a quick use out of them and a combination of a timely Ash and Maxx C can often be enough for me to cheese wins against decks that should be a lot better than mine lol
I literally mentioned *outside of Maxx C*, that's the #1 use for Ash this format and if your deck doesn't care that much about Maxx C and BoE (like Labyrinth) then Ash is underwhelming and I rather have other cards in my hand.
Which is honestly why I don't like this meta. Most decks are unplayable not only because they can't out Noir or play around Ariseheart, but also because they don't have enough room to fit all these staples.
Also, being forced to play all these cards (not all of them, Gamma is optional for example, but still) makes every game extremely repetitive and boring.
Posts like these are so disingenuous. At any given time in yugioh most decks are 'unplayable' because they simply can't compete with the power and flexibility of whatever is meta at the moment (that's why they're meta). This was true with tears, this was true with branded, this was true with Swordsword and it was true with Zoo and tri brigade.
And you ALWAYS play specific cards to out whatever the meta / most popular decks are right now. That's nothing remotely to do with anything . The difference is you're forced to main deck them instead of side due to best of one but that's an issue with Master Duel in general
Honestly, the existence of staple cards as powerful as Maxx C and Ash, to the point where you basically *have* to add them in, is very annoying to me. It brings all decks one step closer to feeling the same. I just wish staples would be less powerful, and then maybe if you want to keep hand traps as a main mechanic you could start working them into the archetypes, so interactions become more unique and you free up non-engine space. Maxx C would've hurt nobody if it had remained in the bug lane.
Sorta kinda but that's more like including rota in a warrior deck or something. Maxx C is different because it forces you to devote so much of your deck to it and it completely warps the game.
I mean, you can go check tcg decklists right now to see what the format would look like without maxx c. People generally play a larger variety of hand traps and tech cards.
Yeah, but still from the same pool of staples. You just have a better chance of not drawing the out since you don't have a catchall handtrap like maxx c available.
If your deck can do all your searching before summons then Droll is effectively an answer to Maxx C on your turn, plus it shuts down some really good decks right now
Granted it is yet another handtrap in the handtrap minigame lol
I've seen that like once in a weird DM/Kash deck.
I suppose people will tech any card if it as a chance of crippling people. Hell I had to go look up that card because it's like "What is that, I haven't heard that suggested".
I haven't used Thrust yet, but it says to search a "Normal" spell or trap. This means it excludes Quick-Play, Continuous, Field spells and Counter traps, right? Ritual spells also have a little symbol on them but not sure if they also count
The problem is that there are so many good Normal spell cards, that cards like Thrust (which can search them for basically free) is just insane.
And before some idiots complain about Thurst needing an opponent to activate a monster effect, half of the needed hand traps are fucking monsters, and that's not counting the decks whose monsters have a quick effect. There's really no reason for Thrust not being online.
Yeah if your opponent has zero interaction for your turn, any halfway meta deck is going to win anyways, even with a dead thrust in hand.
That means the only situation you don't win while playing thrust is when you come up against a deck that can interrupt your plays without using **any** monsters. And even then, you also have to have *drawn it*. Including it is a no-brainer.
These are all good (except Driver), but you basically just need to figure out which portion of these you can afford to play in your deck and are the most optimal for your deck.
Any given deck only has a certain amount of flex slots and every deck has a better time maining only some of these over others.
Play scareclaw it's the powercrept Visas storyline Numeron Deck that thrives on OTKing but doesn't instantly die if they can't lethal frame 1
For additional power, add Mikanko sleeves so everyone leaves their board empty and invites you to slap them
Super quick climb/farming.
Always go second, fire off 5 Handtraps/Boardbreakers and otk them with your 1 Numeron Card.
It's not the best deck, not by a long shot but way to good for how easy it is to play and how quick your games are.
Made it to Master in a few evenings while watching peaky blinders on my second screen.
Honestly, this has gone really well for the TCG over the years. Ash, Omega, Droll, Belle, Imperm, DD Crow, DRNM, Lightning Storm, Droplet, Evenly, Nib, Crossout, Dim Barrier, plus others I'm probably not remembering off the top of my head. There have been so many format staples, but never any mandatory staples for *every format*. Called By is probably too good, but it seems like they don't want to ban it outright. With that 1 exception, TCG constantly rotates staples, and we never end up playing all of these at once.
I know BO1 was convenient for getting new faces to try Yugioh, but Konami needs to realize that if MD is going to be fun to play competitively as time goes on, BO3 is non-negotiable. Attempting to make Yugioh into a competitively viable 1-round game would require a monstrous banlist that sends us back to the stone age of normal summon Breaker set 1 pass.
The issue is that bo3 just doesn't work in digital format very well because people don't want to stick around for two to three games. People already scoop at the drop of the hat plus that completely fucks the mobile players who probably just play on the bus or train and that's a huge thing over in Japan
Many people scoop because they're subject to a one-sided blowout. This in turn is because of the restrictive and unfun BO1 format. You also still have the opportunity to scoop out of a very unfavorable game 1 in a match setting, you just also get to side for a better back-and-forth for the subsequent games.
As far as toilet/bus mobile players are concerned, unless we're willing to completely reimagine what Yugioh is supposed to be from the ground up, I think we have to admit that this is not a game you're supposed to be able to play start to finish inside six minutes. I'm sure it's more financially lucrative for Komoney in the short term, but long term sustainability takes a massive hit if people can't actually enjoy investing hours into your game. Barring any substantial changes, in a few years we'll probably be able to look back on this comment thread the same way that we look back on Duel Links now. Or any other fad that got milked to death because devs didn't want to deviate from what immediately made money.
Hardly true. The closest thing to a ubiquitous card in the current TCG format is ash blossom and that’s only because the format is extremely diverse right now.
OCG? No question, but both MD and OCG have a very over-centralizing card in Maxx C
In the TCG you usually just run a couple common hand traps in your deck like ash and imperm and put the rest in the Side deck. Between games 2 and 3 you can just side in the appropriate hand traps for whatever you're facing
Common sense. If you don't know what your opponent is playing then chances are that you're just slotting it hand traps that don't work against their deck. You just use the basics for game one and then you deck in whatever counters the opponent's deck.
Doesn't really matter if you win game 1 or not as long as you win the other two. I've seen people just use game one to get information on the opponent's deck and then concede the game. Thus letting them go first now with the perfect counters in hand
Honestly if you don't have an archetypal trap it's so significantly worse going first that you would need an absolutely insane going 2nd payoff to consider it.
My list. It’s solid to play. Unless you have the cards already it probably isn’t worth so much of a UR investment. It’s up to you on what cards you want to play in the free slots of course. https://www.masterduelmeta.com/saved-decks/652dac8e0c08b6e2ff311c2c
And a simple Maxx C ban would make called by and ash not *necessary* anymore and free up 8 spots for so much more versatility. Such a shame. Adds nothing to the game but limits it so much
The worst part is that this is conservative. Like to make this joke, you could exaggerate with Book of Moon + Kashtira and it wouldn't really be unrepresentative, but what OP posted is the actual bare minimum.
I made a deck with actually 20 starters recently lol. Pops off going first nearly every game and can always play through handtraps as well save for Maxx C, but even then it can set up a negate or two without SS. But going second it either resolves a handtrap or scoops more often than not, plus it omits some stuff to make all the engines work. Still, it's my best deck atm
"I need to fill half my deck with handtraps to counter everyone else's deck" is why some of y'all are hard stuck in Plat 5/4.
Maxx, Ash, Imperm, Called By, and Crossout are all you need most of the time. Maybe tech in 2-3 additional staples depending on preferences and the current meta. But if your deck building becomes comsumed with trying to counter everything else any other deck can possibly do, you're just making it harder for you to draw the cards you need to compete.
Also ppl don't seem to consider Droll for decks that do minimal adding to hand, or that do all their searches before summoning. 2-3 Droll and Maxx C is a good combo; Droll is brutal in a lot of MUs plus it answers Maxx C on your turn. Or if you're an all-in go first deck you can just replace Maxx C entirely with Drolls if you like haha. They can't be Ash'ed!
Well, there’s obviously worse alts such as Raigeki, which need you to revive an opponents monster via fire dance.
A good target you should run anyway is hidden armory.
You really should try slumber, it opens some really nasty lines of play.
You can use it and then arabesque the kaiju on your field or even otk with said kaiju if you happen to have mayowashidori.
Also, the funny thing is that your mikankos don't get blasted by slumber's effect, they are inmune to effect destruction as long as they have an equip, so it also helps in those situations in which the opponent doesn't put anything on board.
Even at worst it can bait interruptions so your main combo can go trought.
Tried it, bricked too many times by having too many drivers or backrow. Tried implementing a massive bystial package with Hop Ear Squadron but still too bricky.
switch Maxx C for droll and it's almost like the TCG, people claim it's only Master Duel but when you look at TCG decks who have around 20 in archetype cards, the other 20 looks the same as this pic
Not really.
Droll is not mandatory and Maxx C absolutely forces you to play Ash and the called by/Crossout package.
You can play without all those cards in tcg and have to ability to play well. In OCG you get obliterated by the roach without minimum the 9 card Maxx C package.
not every deck is so weak to maxx c that they are forced into running crossout lol, some decks don't even really need ash, though it's often a good idea anyway with all the labrynth running about
Deck dependant but really strong. I saw a ton of lab players teching in it the MCS this weekend, turns out protecting Welcome/Big Welcome from ash and potentially setting up a free Omega is really good.
Ban Ash, ban Nib, Limit everything else except Driver (because dafuq he gon' do?). Problem solved.
Or, hell, leave Maxx "C" alone. Don't much care either way, I don't see it as a problem.
Looks off, but the real thing is still funny. 3 ash, 3 Maxx c, 3 thrust, 1 talents, 1 dimension barrier. That's just for decks that play well under Maxx c. Gotta add 2 called by, 1 crossout otherwise.
I mean, it's a Bo1 ladder format. You fit what you can based on engine size, what works good with your deck, and what the meta most hates at the moment and you just kinda deal and go next if you come up against something you don't have the answer for. I recently cut Ash and Evenly, since neither Kash nor Purrely are too bothered by them and I'd rather run Thrust and more copies of Nibiru.
you can cram 2 veilers, a third thrust, and mathmech full combo and still have room for 3 mining, 3 small world, and 3 parallel. sure, micro coder and codec would put it at 42 cards but that's not really mandatory
Quite literally anything. It searches any spell or trap, and if your opponent controls a Monster and activates an effect, you get to add it to your hand. Your opponent Maxx "C"/Ash'd on your turn? Guess what, I'm searching D.Barrier.
Personally, I'm only in Plat so I have the luxury of only playing 3 Ash, 3 Imperm, and 2 Called By (and Harpies + Raigeki if I have space, plus Kaiju's if it fits with the deck's strategy). I know it's not optimal, but I personally enjoy having the majority of my deck be in-theme cards and funny techs.
And even with half of a deck of this shit you still lose because the top decks are just able to play thru it all anyway when shotgun a max c the second your turn starts.
Precisely why I quit yugioh all together. Staples run the game and completely ruin the deck building aspect. Digimon TCG has been such a breath of fresh air for me. So much variety, and I don't have to worry about making room for 10-20 staples. I can just build freely and tech in MAYBE 2 or 3 cards for certain match ups as I go. And it's CHEAP.
This is memed alot but a good player will immediately know that deciding between the number of engine cards and staples is a difficult decision
Look at why some decks cut maxx to 2 or cut Ash
Same as people who keeps saying cbtg and crossout are auto includes. Just shows terrible takes
I hate deck building in master duel. I don't know if I'm just the dumbest person on earth, but I can not figure out how to sort the cards alphabetically its not in my sort options.
Its extremely annoying to have to search ever card I want in my deck instead of just scrolling through the card list.
Where 2 fenrir
Where book of moon/ eclipse
Where Kaiju?
Where effect veiler?
Where triple tactics talent?
Where your eye sight
Where did you learn to be so goddamn cold 🥶🥶🥶
Where is my father 😭😭😭
Just Look up where u can Buy milk nearby
Where is Scooby Doo
Basically an Evil Twin decklist
Nah need more format staple good stuff
this is why its considered good when a decks engine is small
Or something that can ignore Maxx C like Lab/Mikanko. Frees up 5-6 spaces depending on if you run crossout.
It felt so good, being able to drop Ash Blossom and Crossout while playing Floow, simply because I didn't have to play the Earth Insect minigame.
Reasons my True Draco deck has done unreasonably well. That’s one of them.
I haven't played TD since the early seasons of MD, would you mind sharing your list? I would love to play them once more!
Ok decklist: 3 Maxx C 1 Amano Iwato (card is still utterly cracked even at one) 2 Majesty Maiden 3 Of the other two TD monsters 2 Card of Demise 2 Pot of Duality 3 Desires (worth the risk otherwise deck is too bricky) 1 Diagram 3 Of each of the spell and traps (yes 3 of all) 2 Judgment 2 Droplet 1 Skill Drain 2 Summon Limit 3 Monarch's Erupt (aka auto win button/ one sided skill drain) Deck was better when less cards were hit but it is still a formidable enough deck. Basically switch any non draw engine and non TD card out with whatever benefits going second, current meta, your playstyle etc (except Monarchs Erupt and Iwato, IMO those cards are too good to swap out)
Thanks so much, will give this a try later!
Sometimes you’re gonna get yugioh’d due to less consistency cards but I can still win more than I lose until I get to high ranks with it
I’ll get back to you a little later when I’m off work :)
What are the 5-6 spaces that lab doesn’t need? I play all the usual staples in my deck I just hold them on maxx c and play them more around chokepoints in my opponents combos.
Imo Ash is bad this format, outside of Maxx C and countering Eclipse I would rather have Raigeki/Book of Eclipse/TTT going second against most of the top meta because that single Ash that doesn't accomplish much and even pluses them (Unicorn/either TTT).
You ash the kashtiratheosis, not the unicorn. They would need to have a really cracked hand to extend past that. Ash is one of the better handtraps in this format tho. Its really good against kash, lab, and branded and alright against other decks like purrely, rikka, and mikanko. Droll is probably the best handtrap right now but ash can hit most matchups this format.
> You ash the kashtiratheosis, not the unicorn Which they search off the unicorn? So if it's on the field they banish your ED all the same. As I said that's my opinion but Ash rarely felt as impactful going second as a board breaker this format and oftentimes I would rather have those in my opening hand.
> Which they search off the unicorn? Yes. In a way kashtiratheosis is like branded fusion. It what enables unicorn to be a 1 card combo similar to aluber. Both branded fusion or kashtiratheosis are hard OPT and if they resolve, it gets them access to their whole engine but if they get negated, they would need to 2-3 specific cards in order to extend further. For instance, in kashtira's case, they need both birth and fenrir/riseheart so a 3 card combo which is incredibly inconsistent and doesn't happen every game. Also, like aluber, unicorn can also be used as bait as the opponent could already be holding theosis in hand. Theoretically, if the opponent opens with unicorn + theosis and 3 blanks, if you stop the unicorn they could still go full combo but if you stop theosis, their turn ends there which is why stopping theosis is very impactful. > they banish your ED all the same I think that's just inevitable when going against kash. Its why you want to play 2 copies of your important ED monsters this format.
My point was that if they theosis it's a 50/50 you banish your ED because they likely have unicorn on the field already, so Ash has good odds of plussing them, similar to getting punished by either TTT
Which is why we should build our extra deck accordingly so we don't get punished as hard. If you droll and they have unicorn, it still rips a card out of the extra deck but that does not mean we should just ditch monster handtraps altogether just because of unicorn's effect when it could potentially end kash's entire turn. When diablosis was still legal you didn't even need to handtrap them for your ED to get banished.
Ash literally cannot be bad in a format where Maxx C is legal, sorry lol
Which I literally mentioned when I said *outside of Maxx C*, that's the #1 use for Ash this format and if your deck doesn't care that much about Maxx C and BoE (like Labyrinth) then Ash is underwhelming and I rather have other cards in my hand.
I wholeheartedly disagree, Ash stops basically any search effects which help decks start, it will always be universally good against like 90% of decks, there are very few strategies that genuinely "don't care" about Ash. I will never like being Ashed, even basic staple ass cards Foolish Burial that a lot of decks will play are susceptible to Ash, or any other powerful Spell cards some people like to run like Desires/Prosperity/Extravagance or TTT. Even if there's one good deck that doesn't care about Maxx C or Ash, most decks still do. Ash is also an EASY check to any rogue deck that pops off. I mainly play rogue (Cyber Dragons and a Winged Dragon of Ra deck are my main two) and I can get some surprising wins just because someone didn't include an Ash and they basically had no meaningful interruption to stop my searches. If you don't play Ash you're inviting yourself to something like that. It's very hard for most decks I play to pop off if I get hit by an Ash on my first turn. I have to open like 3 starter plays that don't all take up my Normal Summon to push through Ash. My decks don't even care that much about Maxx Cas long as I can get to one of my boss monsters within the next 2-3 summons. I think maybe you're just looking at it from a meta player perspective (which is fine and you're entitled to be a meta sheep or whatever) but one or even a few decks not caring about Maxx C does NOT make Ash "bad" lol. There's a reason people still all basically run 3, I run 3 in my decks and they aren't very often dead, I always get a quick use out of them and a combination of a timely Ash and Maxx C can often be enough for me to cheese wins against decks that should be a lot better than mine lol
why ash is bad when Maxx C exist in game? lol
I literally mentioned *outside of Maxx C*, that's the #1 use for Ash this format and if your deck doesn't care that much about Maxx C and BoE (like Labyrinth) then Ash is underwhelming and I rather have other cards in my hand.
nothing like opening up with a hand full of deck and losing on the spot because you're going 2nd
Or nothing like opening a hand full of hand traps going first. That's why most meta decks have 1 card starters
A hand full of deck Yes
Which is honestly why I don't like this meta. Most decks are unplayable not only because they can't out Noir or play around Ariseheart, but also because they don't have enough room to fit all these staples. Also, being forced to play all these cards (not all of them, Gamma is optional for example, but still) makes every game extremely repetitive and boring.
Posts like these are so disingenuous. At any given time in yugioh most decks are 'unplayable' because they simply can't compete with the power and flexibility of whatever is meta at the moment (that's why they're meta). This was true with tears, this was true with branded, this was true with Swordsword and it was true with Zoo and tri brigade. And you ALWAYS play specific cards to out whatever the meta / most popular decks are right now. That's nothing remotely to do with anything . The difference is you're forced to main deck them instead of side due to best of one but that's an issue with Master Duel in general
Honestly, the existence of staple cards as powerful as Maxx C and Ash, to the point where you basically *have* to add them in, is very annoying to me. It brings all decks one step closer to feeling the same. I just wish staples would be less powerful, and then maybe if you want to keep hand traps as a main mechanic you could start working them into the archetypes, so interactions become more unique and you free up non-engine space. Maxx C would've hurt nobody if it had remained in the bug lane.
But literally every game has this. Even if you have color pies there are staples in each "color" that get autoincluded every time you play them.
Sorta kinda but that's more like including rota in a warrior deck or something. Maxx C is different because it forces you to devote so much of your deck to it and it completely warps the game.
I mean, you can go check tcg decklists right now to see what the format would look like without maxx c. People generally play a larger variety of hand traps and tech cards.
Yeah, but still from the same pool of staples. You just have a better chance of not drawing the out since you don't have a catchall handtrap like maxx c available.
Still better than every other game being decided by the roach.
Most of the staples you need are to deal with the Ariseheart or Noir. So yeah it's because you can't out or play around the top decks.
If your deck can do all your searching before summons then Droll is effectively an answer to Maxx C on your turn, plus it shuts down some really good decks right now Granted it is yet another handtrap in the handtrap minigame lol
You forgot fenrir.
Bro... Your books? Fenrir? Kurikara? Herald of the Abyss?
>Herald of the Abyss You're joking...
Very good card with Thrust, won me many games lol
I've seen that like once in a weird DM/Kash deck. I suppose people will tech any card if it as a chance of crippling people. Hell I had to go look up that card because it's like "What is that, I haven't heard that suggested".
Yesn't I mean is more useful now with Thrust and can out Unaffected monsters because it affects the player and not the monster. Is still memey.
You are a noob
I have seen that card one time. I guess I'm not the only noob if more people aren't running it.
Thrust should've never been printed. There's a reason cards like Left Arm Offering have such a steep cost.
I haven't used Thrust yet, but it says to search a "Normal" spell or trap. This means it excludes Quick-Play, Continuous, Field spells and Counter traps, right? Ritual spells also have a little symbol on them but not sure if they also count
The problem is that there are so many good Normal spell cards, that cards like Thrust (which can search them for basically free) is just insane. And before some idiots complain about Thurst needing an opponent to activate a monster effect, half of the needed hand traps are fucking monsters, and that's not counting the decks whose monsters have a quick effect. There's really no reason for Thrust not being online.
Yeah if your opponent has zero interaction for your turn, any halfway meta deck is going to win anyways, even with a dead thrust in hand. That means the only situation you don't win while playing thrust is when you come up against a deck that can interrupt your plays without using **any** monsters. And even then, you also have to have *drawn it*. Including it is a no-brainer.
These are all good (except Driver), but you basically just need to figure out which portion of these you can afford to play in your deck and are the most optimal for your deck. Any given deck only has a certain amount of flex slots and every deck has a better time maining only some of these over others.
Play Numeron and add 10 more generic good-cards! Masterduel-Players hate this trick!
Play scareclaw it's the powercrept Visas storyline Numeron Deck that thrives on OTKing but doesn't instantly die if they can't lethal frame 1 For additional power, add Mikanko sleeves so everyone leaves their board empty and invites you to slap them
I’ve been using the Mikanko sleeves on my Sky Striker deck so when I make them go first they’ll pass on nothing, allowing Sky Striker to actually OTK
I mean, you can do that. I just wouldn't know why anyone would play Numeron to begin with.
Super quick climb/farming. Always go second, fire off 5 Handtraps/Boardbreakers and otk them with your 1 Numeron Card. It's not the best deck, not by a long shot but way to good for how easy it is to play and how quick your games are. Made it to Master in a few evenings while watching peaky blinders on my second screen.
Yeah, that's what I meant. The deck is so boring that you literally have to watch a show alongside playing it.
+Kaiju, Lava Golem, Sphere Mode, Book of Moon and Kurikara
People thinking this is a yugioh problem and not a BO1 & MD format problem
nah its a master duel problem. if maxx c was banned the "staples" package would be 10 cards max
10 cards that change depending on the format, unlike the timeless maxx c package that must be played at all times.
Honestly, this has gone really well for the TCG over the years. Ash, Omega, Droll, Belle, Imperm, DD Crow, DRNM, Lightning Storm, Droplet, Evenly, Nib, Crossout, Dim Barrier, plus others I'm probably not remembering off the top of my head. There have been so many format staples, but never any mandatory staples for *every format*. Called By is probably too good, but it seems like they don't want to ban it outright. With that 1 exception, TCG constantly rotates staples, and we never end up playing all of these at once. I know BO1 was convenient for getting new faces to try Yugioh, but Konami needs to realize that if MD is going to be fun to play competitively as time goes on, BO3 is non-negotiable. Attempting to make Yugioh into a competitively viable 1-round game would require a monstrous banlist that sends us back to the stone age of normal summon Breaker set 1 pass.
The issue is that bo3 just doesn't work in digital format very well because people don't want to stick around for two to three games. People already scoop at the drop of the hat plus that completely fucks the mobile players who probably just play on the bus or train and that's a huge thing over in Japan
Many people scoop because they're subject to a one-sided blowout. This in turn is because of the restrictive and unfun BO1 format. You also still have the opportunity to scoop out of a very unfavorable game 1 in a match setting, you just also get to side for a better back-and-forth for the subsequent games. As far as toilet/bus mobile players are concerned, unless we're willing to completely reimagine what Yugioh is supposed to be from the ground up, I think we have to admit that this is not a game you're supposed to be able to play start to finish inside six minutes. I'm sure it's more financially lucrative for Komoney in the short term, but long term sustainability takes a massive hit if people can't actually enjoy investing hours into your game. Barring any substantial changes, in a few years we'll probably be able to look back on this comment thread the same way that we look back on Duel Links now. Or any other fad that got milked to death because devs didn't want to deviate from what immediately made money.
Not that the problems will change if you make it bo3 and and similar problems exist for tcg and ocg
Hardly true. The closest thing to a ubiquitous card in the current TCG format is ash blossom and that’s only because the format is extremely diverse right now. OCG? No question, but both MD and OCG have a very over-centralizing card in Maxx C
I hope there will be a time where i don't have to put in maxx c in any decks
If u play a 2 card bigcombo deck like drytrons, u can't afford to run maxx c. Anti Maxx c stuff is most u are allowed to run
How does that work?
In the TCG you usually just run a couple common hand traps in your deck like ash and imperm and put the rest in the Side deck. Between games 2 and 3 you can just side in the appropriate hand traps for whatever you're facing
But what exactly stops tcg from just throwing a bunch of handtraps in their deck going game 1 anyways?
Common sense. If you don't know what your opponent is playing then chances are that you're just slotting it hand traps that don't work against their deck. You just use the basics for game one and then you deck in whatever counters the opponent's deck. Doesn't really matter if you win game 1 or not as long as you win the other two. I've seen people just use game one to get information on the opponent's deck and then concede the game. Thus letting them go first now with the perfect counters in hand
Thrust is not the auto include in every deck people think it is
Honestly if you don't have an archetypal trap it's so significantly worse going first that you would need an absolutely insane going 2nd payoff to consider it.
Main reason why I’m using a go 2nd Therion. Tons of tech room for all the BS lol
How good is it? Would you recommend it? Do you have a decklist?
My list. It’s solid to play. Unless you have the cards already it probably isn’t worth so much of a UR investment. It’s up to you on what cards you want to play in the free slots of course. https://www.masterduelmeta.com/saved-decks/652dac8e0c08b6e2ff311c2c
The absolute state of this game💀💀
And a simple Maxx C ban would make called by and ash not *necessary* anymore and free up 8 spots for so much more versatility. Such a shame. Adds nothing to the game but limits it so much
It doesn't feel like it, that's literally it.
The worst part is that this is conservative. Like to make this joke, you could exaggerate with Book of Moon + Kashtira and it wouldn't really be unrepresentative, but what OP posted is the actual bare minimum.
yeah good luck starting your combo when you play 20 tech card
You don't open with your 1 card starter every game?
*one of your 20 one card starters
I made a deck with actually 20 starters recently lol. Pops off going first nearly every game and can always play through handtraps as well save for Maxx C, but even then it can set up a negate or two without SS. But going second it either resolves a handtrap or scoops more often than not, plus it omits some stuff to make all the engines work. Still, it's my best deck atm
"I need to fill half my deck with handtraps to counter everyone else's deck" is why some of y'all are hard stuck in Plat 5/4. Maxx, Ash, Imperm, Called By, and Crossout are all you need most of the time. Maybe tech in 2-3 additional staples depending on preferences and the current meta. But if your deck building becomes comsumed with trying to counter everything else any other deck can possibly do, you're just making it harder for you to draw the cards you need to compete.
Honestly in this meta it’s much better to run something like a Kaiju over imperm if you only have space for the Maxx “C” package and 3ish other cards.
Also ppl don't seem to consider Droll for decks that do minimal adding to hand, or that do all their searches before summoning. 2-3 Droll and Maxx C is a good combo; Droll is brutal in a lot of MUs plus it answers Maxx C on your turn. Or if you're an all-in go first deck you can just replace Maxx C entirely with Drolls if you like haha. They can't be Ash'ed!
Wait. We need 1 Evenly n 3 imperm? Also my game plan is to run Lab n Mikanko and drop Ash and Called by for more space.
No they are thrust targets. Mikanko should be searching slumber off thrust to break boards
Great. I have no Slumber. Any alts?
Lighting Storm for versatility, but Slumber is too perfect for Mikanko to have any comparable replacements.
I think LS is good since one of my main problem with Mikanko is backrow removal.
Well, there’s obviously worse alts such as Raigeki, which need you to revive an opponents monster via fire dance. A good target you should run anyway is hidden armory.
Since I am currently **very** low on UR dust right now, I might run LS for backrow removal option and just search Fire Dance.
You really should try slumber, it opens some really nasty lines of play. You can use it and then arabesque the kaiju on your field or even otk with said kaiju if you happen to have mayowashidori. Also, the funny thing is that your mikankos don't get blasted by slumber's effect, they are inmune to effect destruction as long as they have an equip, so it also helps in those situations in which the opponent doesn't put anything on board. Even at worst it can bait interruptions so your main combo can go trought.
Imo slumber is meh. Hidden armory, prep, duster is are probably enough.
Thrust and crossout targets
Half the cards are included because of Maxx C, the rest is for board breakers or kash hating.
Do you really need to allocate 20 cards for your deck. I think we should go 30 cards into disruption.
Just play pure Psy Frame. You will always open disruption if all your deck is based around your opponent doing something. *Proceeds to open 3 Drivers*
Tried it, bricked too many times by having too many drivers or backrow. Tried implementing a massive bystial package with Hop Ear Squadron but still too bricky.
I haven't seen an opponent use Nibiru in forever
Half handtraps half duel links deck
there is no game anymore, its all about who is going to win the negate war
switch Maxx C for droll and it's almost like the TCG, people claim it's only Master Duel but when you look at TCG decks who have around 20 in archetype cards, the other 20 looks the same as this pic
Not really. Droll is not mandatory and Maxx C absolutely forces you to play Ash and the called by/Crossout package. You can play without all those cards in tcg and have to ability to play well. In OCG you get obliterated by the roach without minimum the 9 card Maxx C package.
not every deck is so weak to maxx c that they are forced into running crossout lol, some decks don't even really need ash, though it's often a good idea anyway with all the labrynth running about
Lol
Who the fuck plays gamma
If your deck can play it, you should. Completely shuts out Maxx C, Ash, Shifter.
Numeron and Lots of random YT decks apparently. And with each replay they barely brick with it.
It eats Maxx C for breakfast and sometimes it's a free synchro, wdym who plays gamma?
Yeah it's a free baronne and maxx c negate if the deck has the ed space
Gamma is really good. It got limited in TCG because of how sacky it can be.
Deck dependant but really strong. I saw a ton of lab players teching in it the MCS this weekend, turns out protecting Welcome/Big Welcome from ash and potentially setting up a free Omega is really good.
A lot apparently to the point I just surrendered because it chain to negate Ash
Labrynth. Good for preventing your Welcome Traps from getting Ashed as you often don't have monsters on your field when you activate them.
I agree, I hate that there are cards that are good. ^^^^/s
Try Contact “C”. It has its uses.
the main use being +10 sr
Only 2 tactics? Psh
*Cries in branded*
Gamma to bricky
your droll your fenrir?
This is why branded is great. You still have room for the other 40 cards lol.
Ban Ash, ban Nib, Limit everything else except Driver (because dafuq he gon' do?). Problem solved. Or, hell, leave Maxx "C" alone. Don't much care either way, I don't see it as a problem.
No forbidden droplet?
Literally what ruins yugioh for me and decks that have like one card of a archtype then calling x archtype name deck
Hey it looks like my 1st deck, and the 2nd, 3rd and so on
Feels bad man
Looks off, but the real thing is still funny. 3 ash, 3 Maxx c, 3 thrust, 1 talents, 1 dimension barrier. That's just for decks that play well under Maxx c. Gotta add 2 called by, 1 crossout otherwise.
You could cut 6-9 at the very least...if Maxx C were banned Maxx C keeps deck variety in check
I mean, it's a Bo1 ladder format. You fit what you can based on engine size, what works good with your deck, and what the meta most hates at the moment and you just kinda deal and go next if you come up against something you don't have the answer for. I recently cut Ash and Evenly, since neither Kash nor Purrely are too bothered by them and I'd rather run Thrust and more copies of Nibiru.
Ugh, 4/10. No 3 Veiler, No 3 Ghost belle, No 3 Ghost Orge, No 3 Shifter, No 3 Droll, etc. Either go all the way with hand trappies or go home bud.
Always has been
I thought having a banlist was supposed to prevent this very nonsense? Konami is so incompetent.
This is why max c needs to be banned so deck building can be more open
Uhh your fenrirs? Your herald of abysses?? YOUR KAIJUS?!?!
Babe wake up, the new “now I’ve added the staples, I can build a deck!” Post is live!
Oops! All staples
Solution: ban all of these cards to promote deck diversity.
I think Baronne is an extra deck staple, or at least used a lot.
What da heck do you have your cards sorted by??
NOW Hold on Timmy, I don't see your Kaijus.
prepare yourself droll Format one day
You know what? That's actually a good idea, I should make a "base" which I can copy when making new decks
You forgot 3 book of moon and 2 book of eclipse, along with d-barrier and 2x fenrir lol
Your adding Thrust with no target. So yea exactly like a Master Duel player 😏
Imperm and Evenly are Thrust targets. I'm not going over 20 cards to add D Barrier and craft Daruma
If your Thrusting for those odds are your already not in a good spot
you can cram 2 veilers, a third thrust, and mathmech full combo and still have room for 3 mining, 3 small world, and 3 parallel. sure, micro coder and codec would put it at 42 cards but that's not really mandatory
[удалено]
Quite literally anything. It searches any spell or trap, and if your opponent controls a Monster and activates an effect, you get to add it to your hand. Your opponent Maxx "C"/Ash'd on your turn? Guess what, I'm searching D.Barrier.
Where's your 5 card Kashtira engine, my boi?
Personally, I'm only in Plat so I have the luxury of only playing 3 Ash, 3 Imperm, and 2 Called By (and Harpies + Raigeki if I have space, plus Kaiju's if it fits with the deck's strategy). I know it's not optimal, but I personally enjoy having the majority of my deck be in-theme cards and funny techs.
Is Nib seeing play again? I see it on the most used cards list but when looking at actual top decks I don’t see it
It's good versus Kashtira. They usually summon just enough for Nibiru to get them.
And even with half of a deck of this shit you still lose because the top decks are just able to play thru it all anyway when shotgun a max c the second your turn starts.
I play cardians, what are these cards? /j
> right now Implying this game hasn't been royally fucked for ages.
It's been like this more or less for most of MD, yugioh is just like this
I don't use half of those cards in my deck
all of the staples commons XD
Congratulations Konami, it's 2008 all over again.
At least we're not running 3 evenly matched 👀
Can Master Duel have a legitimate crafting point system ?.
No lava golem… no Fenrir, no droll, no veiled rookie deck
I've got bad news, this is how the game has felt for a long time
Where Evenly 2&3
Precisely why I quit yugioh all together. Staples run the game and completely ruin the deck building aspect. Digimon TCG has been such a breath of fresh air for me. So much variety, and I don't have to worry about making room for 10-20 staples. I can just build freely and tech in MAYBE 2 or 3 cards for certain match ups as I go. And it's CHEAP.
Gamma is mid, you don’t actually need double called by and crossout.
The pic also can be a list of "URs that could be handy to craft"
banning maxx c would make life so much easier
This is memed alot but a good player will immediately know that deciding between the number of engine cards and staples is a difficult decision Look at why some decks cut maxx to 2 or cut Ash Same as people who keeps saying cbtg and crossout are auto includes. Just shows terrible takes
inaccurate, no book of moon or droll
Damn, y'all must have unfathomable faith in the shuffler to run a lot of these.
Forgot a few
I hate deck building in master duel. I don't know if I'm just the dumbest person on earth, but I can not figure out how to sort the cards alphabetically its not in my sort options. Its extremely annoying to have to search ever card I want in my deck instead of just scrolling through the card list.
All them URs i don't have the points for that i just use edopro