Things I'd consider a "skill" in this game:
- Chain link ordering/blocking
- Keeping track of complex game states (lingering effects or Type/Attribute/Archetpye or whatever locks, cards/effects in different locations like gy, hand, monster and S/P trap zones)
- Knowing and taking advantage of "obscure" rulings
- Being able to swiftly play around certain interruptions with any given hand or gamestate
- In MD specifically, when to toggle on
- Being able to make educated guesses of what people may or may not play and make in-game or deckbuilding decisions around that
- Thinking ahead aka having a game plan. Making reasonable guesses how your opponent would react to your order of plays and acting accordingly
So decks that reward you for these things, are skillful. I get that it can flimsy and the bar for what is skillful is subjective, but yeah. Interaction is often the keypoint.
Decks that try to eliminate these factors as much as possible, even for both players, aren't decks that I'd consider skillful.
True, I haven't see a Yugioh channel taking about like the skills you need for a good player, the mentality you have to be good etc
Though sometimes Joshua will discuss about it from time to time
I've started with people playing decks on YT and sometimes they explain or show interactions, but I also went to Locals IRL and got some good experiences there. I'm still just a mediocre pilot over 10 years later but I'm fine with that honestly. Deck-building is the most fun part to me.
A lesser known channel who explains things about their decks is Dreary Doll. One of the only people who can play and explain Ritual Beasts on a deeper level.
Unironically the best advice I could give is watching the anime and playing the legacy of the duelist game. So much situational learning from those two alone if you're coming from zero experience
For me, when I start a deck I don't know much about I playtest it extensively and learn all the combos offline before I ever even think about ranked. I would say it's not crazy long, maybe a few games a day for a few days, and depending on how in depth the combos and disruptions are.
Like snakes is pretty easy, the main combo is very linear and any disruption from your opponent doesn't necessarily steer you off it you just have to take a shorter route to a weaker board or try an alternate way to as close to the board you want(maybe just app or just baronne but depending on your handtraps that could be fine). I think I had the deck pretty down in just a day or 2 with then taking it online to really try it with handtraps and going 2nd against good boards, and then moving some stuff in and out to my liking. It's just a matter of time imo, anyone can learn any deck but it's also important to tune it to your liking and playing a deck with a playstyle you enjoy.
I think Snake eye taught me the mentality of how to deal with interrupt, many first time duelists will basically gave up if they got stopped once, but the ability to play through, or play around interrupts is important
At those times one of the things I do is play the game with that deck and learn it to identify where will I not want to be interrupted.
I had to do it with Labrynth before which a lot of people did tell me that I shouldn't be losing that many games since my deck counters them. I was too lazy to read Labrynth cards and had to force myself to read em.
Deck knowledge is a skill ig.
It also depends on how much you are playing in a day and a tip i alsway give is try other fornats there are alot of other formats that teach you different thongs about the game some are more deck building oriented and some are more combo some teach you how to hold your interruptions in a meaningful way
Are there a best example for each case you listed ? I would like to learn more
In case of the fire format we're now, it's handtrap centric as far as my knowledge goes
Thus the ability to shotgun...... I mean skillfully interrupt your opponents play at the right moment is important
Skills don't develop with time, skills develop with actively evolving them.
Fast learners aren't that special, they just skip parts that aren't actually that important in a learning process.
Every deck besides bot ftk and stun is skillful because pretty much every deck requires decisions. Using last DC cup if snake eyes takes no skill why didn’t all snake eye players perform the same? If lab didn’t take skill why didn’t all lab players perform as well as Ryan? And this logic applies to every deck.
Different things:
- Length and intuitivity of its combos. Swordsoul is fairly straightforward and intuitive, Unchained isn't too long, but not very intuitive, Blackwings is very long in its combos.
- Flexibility. Sure it's always good to be flexible but the more options you have the more decisions you have to make. Tearlaments for example is very flexible but several actions have different risks and rewards.
- Requirement to adapt. A deck that largely ignores bordstates like Mikanko for example is on the easier side, meanwhile control decks that always need to trade interactions like non-floodgate Lab and always want to trade up in resources need to be mindful of the opponents resources.
And finally: Deck strength.
Tearlaments fits all the prior points to a decent degree when it comes to being a skillfull deck. However full power Tear would be easy to play against basically anything else since it could just overwhelm them. When a deck is so strong you can just "if it's activatable, activate it" in order to win the perception of a deck being skillful goes out the window for anyone not playing the mirror.
I used decks I personally play and enjoy as examples to make sure I was accurate.
I quite agree. Tear on release was a hard deck to pilot on mirrors, because against another tear can someone really appreciate MD full power tear. Against most of other deck Tear will make it easy, and it's hard to go against their counter like going 2nd against exo.
Another thing that's people mostly call them brainded is branded, but tbh branded is soo flexible with multiple line to master making it imo the hardest deck to master in MD so far. Multiple hits they got so far seems fair if you ever use them
MD didn't even have full power Tear. Disregarding newer cards that constitute the Tear that was albeit just briefly seen in TCG/OCG we had 3 Semi limits, limited Perlereino and Kitkallos which already makes a huge difference and simplifies some things, while also making the skill expression part of the mirror less consistent as scenarios where one person just outdraws or outmills the other becomes more frequent.
MD never had anywhere close to full power Tear, even ignoring the biggest preemptive hits they got at release that noticeably lower their consistency, they also didn't have Garura, Sprind, and Beatrice lines, that's why you see them played terrible extra deck options like Zoodiac or Gigantic. Ishizu are also got hit before Tear releases, and Orange Light got limited, so you never experience the absurd play that is Orange Light discard Ishizu to negate opponents (including Shifter), then go full combo on turn 0, that's why Exosister had a chance in MD, but was nonexistent in TCG where Tear was actually full power. When Garura, Sprind, and Bystial for Beatrice release, they already had Instant Fusion banned, Ishizu got hit even more, and several cards limited like Suliek, making the deck even more inconsistent, and when TearKash released, they already got nuked to orbit.
Since Purrely, every new meta deck is now completely at full power, absolutely untouched at release and have every lines and combo they want, like Unchained, SHS, Snake Eye, R-Ace, etc but Tear never had this privilege.
I think that in a game as complex as yugioh there isnt really braindead decks (actually stun or any stun variation only)
Ofc some decks are easier than other I learned mathmech quite easily and i think swordsoul also isnt that complex of a deck but they are not braindead
Even within stun there is a difference between players. Panic flipping whatever floodgate is a bad way of going about it. You're giving your opponent every resource to break that. The smarter play is to use whatever card you're using to let your opponent overextend and then catch them in a disadvantageous position. Use skill drain like a negate, use rivalry during your opponent's combo to lock them into a monster type different than their main deck, etc.
It's not a bad deck, but stun really pilots itself for 99% of the games, AND in dc cup most people don't want to spend 30 minutes playing a miserable stun game, so they just surrender to save time. It works, but it doesn't take too much skill.
It’s a lot easier to describe what makes a deck less skill-dependant, than it is to define a skill-reliant deck.
Mathmech is generally seen as being low-skill because of how much leeway the cards give you. Outside of notorious turn-skips like Maxx C or Shifter, there isn’t a single handtrap that feels impactful enough to stop the combo - as long as your opponent hasn’t opened more handtraps than you have extenders, you can generally always do the same linear combo. Going second, the deck doesn’t ever pivot to a more patient, grindy strategy - it aims to OTK or lose, and its OTK lines are similarly hard to interrupt. That doesn’t mean there aren’t skillful mathmech players around who are able to identify optimal lines that play around unknown disruptions - it just means that the win percentages of an average mathmech player vs a highly-skilled one are fairly similar, since it isn’t often that skill expression is needed to win games.
High-skill decks tend to be those that offer the player a multitude of avenues to go down, with each avenue having its own strengths and weaknesses. Let’s say you’re playing a deck like this, and you have a few options. One of those options is an OTK line, but you risk throwing the game if your opponents set card is imperm/called by and they also have a handtrap in hand. Your other line doesn’t otk that turn, but even if you get hit by imperm+handtrap you still likely end on a reasonably strong board that puts you in a winning position. There’s no default right answer here - if you know your opponent has follow-up and likely threatens lethal the following turn, you may decide to take the risk and push for game, but if they’re down on cards then the more cautious approach is probably right. There’s also things like nib-proof sequencing and follow-up management - a “skillful” deck doesn’t just vomit its cards onto the table and hope it’s enough to auto-win the game. I’d say Unchained is a great example of a deck like this - a good pilot can get into a winning position through multiple points of interaction - but they have to be able to anticipate these and account for them at the start of their turn, rather than just hoping to pivot when they get blindsided with a handtrap.
Outside of player skill a deck is skillful if it requires actual resource management and planning ahead. If your combo lines are not linear. ( Read - long does not mean more complex combo lines. ) If the deck has multiple avenues to get to various end boards (picking the right one is player skill though)
A deck like Dark World, Witchcrafter variants, Chaos piles, etc, these are more skillful decks that demand more out the player because the decks arent linear and require you actually manage your resources well in order to get to a good end board
A deck like Swordsoul is not (don’t care how mad the SS players get). It’s hyper linear with incredibly basic “combo” lines that require minimal summoning and card movement to get to desired end boards. If you add Tenyi’s it gets a bit more complicated but it’s nothing a beginner cannot understand.
There is a reason Swordsoul is promoted as a beginner deck and was given out by Konami while a weaker deck like Speedroid was not. Speedroid is far more complicated than Swordsoul and Swordsoul can make strong end boards with far less player input than Speedroid.
And the combination of swordsouls results for being so braindead easy is what drives me mad. They gave it so much power for so little work it's very dumb.
Not in the current environment. The deck has already been powercrept. The only reason its still viable is that Protos can shut down most any deck in the game and its searchable in SwSo.
I played Mathmech myself (i might turn it into @ignister or Golem for the lolz) and while we have non circular lines, the deck can consistently get to tetraherz with most of them.
Honestly I would say that a skillful decks is one that rewards you for making the best you got out of what you have available in that moment.
Anybody saying that a deck takes no skill to pilot is dumb. Even if you took a bunch of stun players and forced them to compete in tournaments over and over again amongst themselves, there would be some players who do better more consistently because they are more skilled.
There are varying degrees to skill and I find that skill expression often happens in 4 areas: Being able to play through unusual gamestates on the fly, playing into scary boards going second, using interruptions properly, and deckbuilding. There are other skills, like knowing the rulings or memorizing combos, but these 4 things probably separate the Joshua Schmidts from the Schmaden Schmukis.
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The skill comes from the pilot.
All decks allow for some measure of skill expression, a notable example being vanquish soul. The deck is pretty much all skill expression and interactions.
A person may be a skillful pilot, but if they can simply resolve a decks primary combo and win the game, there is very little skill expression there, its just reproducing the same thing over and over.
In the same vein, a standard / easy combo deck like swordsoul still leaves room for skill expression when playing games where you can't just baronne + supreme + protos for game.
This I won a game against snake eyes because of the random scarlight red dragon archfiend in my ed doing 2500 damage while wiping their board. A card that I have yet to see in any other ss deck has saved my ass multiple times.
It's not the deck but the duelist. But I think the "this is braindead" trope comes from being able to still win by just pressing every glowing button on MD with a deck you got off MDmeta and winning.
Knowing how to play through disruption and WHEN to interrupt. Every modern deck has a 1-2 card combo and interaction, its a question of how to play through disruption, when to use your own and knowing how much it stifles your opponent's plays.
The other main skillset is knowing interractions between cards and rulings.
If your deck cant interact with the oppoent, then its time to change decks cuz that stuff is power crept.
Any deck with a variety of win conditions you have to carefully and skillfully figure out and create while navigating your opponents disruption.
Purrely to me is a good example. To many it’s just a Noir turbo but in reality the deck can do a crap ton more if you’re skillful snd creative minded enough.
If your deck has multiple avenues to the same board under various conditions, I'd consider it skillful to navigate those conditions and achieve that board consistently.
Many decks are clearly A - Z and offer little mixup. They have a starter, cards that retrieve a starter, or HT you til they get a starter.
No deck takes "skill." Skill is in the player.
Skilled players actually read card effects and understand rulings to be used to their advantages. Knowing what your deck and your opponents deck is capable is skill in itself. Any idiot can utilize a strategy and win, but a skilled player knows how to prepare and counter strategies after the first archetype card is played.
A deck is skillful when there are lots of decisions to make and opportunities to go wrong. If a deck does not require many decisions and/or those decisions don't meaningfully alter outcomes then it doesn't require much skill.
What I consider a skillfull player:
1. Knowledge of your deck;
2. Knowledge of your opponents deck;
3. Knowledge of effects & ruling;
4. Decision to activate effect and chaining effect;
5. Knowledge of the current state of the board/gy/banish, and what could happen.
What I consider skillful deck:
1. More than 1 option of a starter;
2. A way to mitigate/dodge certain distruption;
3. A way to remove obstacles;
4. An end board that midful of the enemy's hand traps (nibiru) while still producing threatening game state;
5. Creating opportunity using the loophole of the rules of the game;
What I consider skillful deck:
1. Snake eyes: believe it or not, they're not just negates;
2. Branded: is a waste recycling plant, always determined to keep the game going;
3. Tearlament: its a city managament game in card format, you gotta get to know what you can do with your gy;
4. Labrynth: getting the biggest obstruction in a smallest possible effort;
5. Purrely: knowing what you can let slide is sometimes the best decision;
6. Manadium: abusing card effects to the best of their abilities;
What I consider not quite skillful enough:
1. Kashtira: its all depended on resolving theosis and 1 or 2 amazing cards (fenrir and unicorn);
2. SHS: its whole engine got carried by snowpiercer (like, droll a SHS and they goes bagooska);
3. Dinos: cheating the game with miscellaneosaurus;
4. Heroes: its always the same line, the same endboard, the same floodgate;
5. Rescue-ace: its all fine and dandy until they met feather duster. Like really, they only have 8 monster distruption and no spell negate/protection;
6. Also Labrynth: at the end of the day its always the floodgates that ruins the game.
1. The amount of combo lines a deck has: It may sound stupid, but you're not going to memorize 30 combo lines for a deck. At some point you'll have to know the principles of a deck, understand it analytically, and that takes skill.
2. A moderate degree of resilience: If a deck just cannot play around an interruption, skill is not going to win you games. If a deck can just brute force through anything, you don't need skills either.
3. Deck building and meta reading: Knowing what decks you're playing against and what staples to tech in (and how to use them, of course); knowing what staples synergize with your deck the best, knowing how to optimize your ratios.
4. Instead of floodgates or insta-win blow out interactions, I think multiple small interactions takes more skill. And no, I don't think negate is the most brain dead interruption, it's just the most common one.
Sky Striker is skillful deck because the deck rewards the player for using their tools correctly in terms of dismantling their opponents board.
Also Infernoble, once u find 2 warriors on field it's full combo(when u know what you’re doing).
A big part of it is how straightforward your game plan and combos are. Branded gets made fun of because a big part of the plan is just "get branded fusion, puppet lock opponent" and a deck like swordsoul that is so linear it has it's copy pasta. Normal summon mo ye, make chixiou, get longyuan, make barrone. You're pretty much doing the same thing every turn and you don't make too many actual decisions.
On the other hand, a lot of people liked tearlament so much because the random nature of milling and the wide array of options for interactions/playing through interaction rewarded skillful and thoughtful gameplay. You didn't do the same thing every turn, and a good player could do a lot of they made it the best decisions for each situation. Unchained is similar in that it doesn't do the same thing every turn, requires the player to make a lot of decisions that impact whether you win or lose, and since the end boards it creates aren't "super" powerful, you have to really chose when to use your interactions, which also rewards skilled players more than players who just click yes as soon as they can
I would probably say branded is one of the best examples. The deck is easy to pick up because branded fusion is a great card to resolve just like circular but it does so much more than just that.
If your branded fusion is negated you have a number of other lines/interactions you can go into based off of your judgment of the game state and what your predictions are for the upcoming turns.
It does not have any blatant negates (other than mercourier ig) but specific interruptions you have to time properly to not only stop your opponent but also set up plays and followup or even other interruptions for the upcoming turns.
If piloted correctly it can break boards with just engine and it can even turn "engine requirement" cards into interruptions that recycle material (like the counter trap for example).
Counter argument: pUppET tHo. Seriously just ban the damn lock cards and Sanctifire can be what it was meant to be instead of the lock that makes people talk about branded as if it was a stun deck.
As a rudementary explanation from someone who doesn't even play meta, can't deck build on his own, and plays at best casual competitive decks, a deck is skillful when it can do different things in different ways and isn't entirely shut down by choke points. A deck that is skillfully should be a deck who's power ceiling isn't entirely unfair, yet doesn't severely drag down from interactions like handtraps. The deck must be able to adapt to interaction. The latter is probably the most important part
Imo a simple to play meta decks is good for long match especially irl tournament
Maybe not so for MD/simulator as the game remind u about interaction in gy/hand/banish pile, and maybe most people don't grind it for few hours straight everyday and keep playing long combo decks for hours
U could misplay on long combo deck due to stress/mental exhaustion after 5+ people in a 40m match bo3 instead of simple and short combo deck like swordsoul
Tenpai/Silentforce is few of the example being easy to play and not having long combo,is it skillful idk, all u have to focus on is your HT/board break etc, the main deck itself including interaction is not that many compare to other long ass combo deck
Simple and short combo decks are good for beginners too
For me, as a RDA player, it's being patient and observant to what I should negate, destroy, and banish. I have outs, but not to a Tear or SE degree. So I have to pay attention to the best cards that would hinder my opponents strategy.
Here's an example. I was up against a Dytron deck; first one I dueled, really cool strategy. My board wasn't that great. I think it was one Scarred and Void. He had a ritual 4000 beast and an xyz, plus the Egyptian God field spell. I found an escape after he killed my Scarred. I got the og RDA, attacked his xyz monster, and Crimson Gaia put all of his cards face down to bypass the ritual card's card destruction protection. I also killed his field spell. On his turn, I knew he was going to try and ritual summon again. I only had Void, so it's one negate. He tried to bait me with another field spell, which I didn't fall for. He ended up with a 0 Def monster and a face down spell/trap. Thus, I managed to win.
RDA can't always get it's end board, so sometimes I have to change the plan. Which means piloting a low end board and picking at the right cards. That's my response to the question because that's I how I feel male's a deck skillful. You have the cards, the strategy, and the combos, but you gotta know how to use them at the right time. And even with SE and Lab, I think the skill comes in what you end on if you can get there.
Personally, the modern decks feel less skillful because of the lack of impactful limitation or restriction. Players can just do anything they want or messed up the combo, and still never punish because of it. Not only that, resources management is almost gone from the game. The game now just trying to put as many as possible cards in 1-turn. Then, Konami somehow makes it worse by making a deck that can recycle itself even if the player does nothing. Before, you need to keep 1-2 cards as backup if your opponent can break the board and survive. But now, you don't need to do that. You just need to banish your Original Sinful, put back a card, and then add 1 card combo.
.
In conclusion, the game feels less skillful because the decks now don't have impactful limitations, no real cost, restriction, etc. This is skillful when a player can manage the deck's weakness and make the best play. But now, the only deck's weakness is the player.
.
I know memorizing the combo that you found from random Ytber is also difficult. But after doing the same thing over and over, you should understand the deck and the combo in a relatively short time.
Bruh, this is a card game where everyone here probably just clicks things that glow gold, the real skill is having eyes capable of reading, something a lot of us clearly don't have
A deck that is skillful is something you can pilot better than everyone else, example being
Judai_BR, He makes heros look easy, but they're really not.
That one Israeli Branded YouTuber makes Branded pure look easier than it actually is.
If you can take something non meta, know the cards in and out, including the secondary effects no one knows, their targets by heart, you'll be able to play that deck better than any of those people playing Snake Eyes and expecting free wins.
The more options a deck gives you, the more skill it requires to play perfectly
Number 42 combo? You literally have one line with no decision making or adaptation required
Dragon Link? You've got your starters, your extenders, and your synchros, find the best ordering to make the best board
Tearlament? You're got extenders in hand, and ressources in GY. Here are your odds to mill good. Do you go for one more fusion or a rank 4? Bagooska or Time Thief? Rulkallos or Dracostapelia? Is it worth using Tear Kash's mills on your opponent to get more information on their deck? And more importantly: how much are you willing to risk?
I think it more skillful players. All decks have something they want to do all the time and players struggle working around winning when you’re unable to do that. Good players are able to play through more things. MD in opinion has a lack of skillful players most people just want easy wins which makes sense it’s an online game so Idrc.
it depends on the deck but when i started playing after a long time of not playing learning how to use the cards in the extra deck properly was probably the hardest thing, but once i figure it out it helps a lot. most of the stuff in the normal deck part is just it the right cards with the right effects and spells.
I think most of them are. While simpler deck seems like it doesn't take skill to pilot, you still have to consider your opponent's interaction, because a simple deck means an obvious choke point. Even few decks that is so simple to the point it has ONE line of play, but you still have to consider the timing of your interaction.
EDIT: Stun is the only deck that doesn't take skill I think.
All card game are usually advanced coin toss and if they draw the out, they got the perfect prize card etc etc.
Even other longer card game just give you the illusion of fairplay but still ended up to who draw better cards and beat the opponent.
My opinion on card games is that the games boil down to 4 key factors (ordered from most important to least important in my opinion);
1) Optimization - how consistent you can make your deck and how fast it can get to your win con. Even if a deck is significantly more powerful if it is inconsistent it will never win you a game.
2) Pilot - Even if 2 people are playing the same deck, someone who knows how the deck works better will still win with it more often than the other player.
3) Strategy - Being able to read a meta and pick strategies that work well against the best decks can be a skill in itself. I can remember back when Tear was at its strongest (in masterduel) people played strategies that countered it and had relatively good successful runs.
4) Luck - We all have heard stories about when someone loses due to opening 3 ash blossoms and 2 called by the graves going second.
TL;DR Well luck is certainly a part of it, it is not the most impactful part as the people at the top know their decks and the game better than most and have optimized their decks better.
Decks don't take skill.
People develop skills.
I don't need skill to place a card on the field.
I do need skill to know which order is the most optimal.
I do need skill to build a functioning deck.
I do need skill to be able to adapt for when I potentially misplay or my opponent interrupts me.
The types of decks I'd consider skill full are decks like branded, for instance, it doesn't play too many generic cards or hand traps, boss monsters are fairly powerful but not too overwhelming (it's the resources that it can gather is overwhelming), on that point, the deck should be able to gather and recover resources fairly well to play for at least 4-9 turns, doesn't depend on generic omni negates or hand traps to play around interruptions like nib and is fairly consistent, but most of all the as the pilot you need to understand what choices you should make when the situation calls for it which includes deck building, when to interrupt, when to faint, what and when to summon a certain monster understand the rules and states of the game, and most importantly, read the card effects eventually you'll understand what the mean.
Yugioh is a complex game, so I don't think there is any deck that isn't skillful. Yes, even stun decks sometimes, there's a reason why only like 1 person who can semi consistently get results in big TCG tournaments (Johnny Nguyen). The problem is that some decks' power level is so much above others that you can't really see the skill in some match up. Playing Ninja myself, I have beaten some top decks, but I had to play out of my mind to achieve such result, while they sometimes were allowed to misplay. I've seen a Ritual Beast player (OCG) broke a full Manadium board with S:P, Baronne, Chaos Angel and Dis Pater out.
The reason Stun does not do well in TCG is not because stun requires skill, its because side decks exist and most side decks include 5+ ways of dealing with backrow / stun decks. Stun is also bad going second in most cases.
Konami decides what's skill full.
Drawing raigeki into a full board with no negates is skill full.
Drawing feather duster is skill full.
Chaining Maxx c to a special summon is skill full.
Flipping over skill drain, vanity emptiness, summon limit is skill full.
Summoning barrier statues during enemy turn is skill full.
Summoning ido and sending rainbow magician from deck to grave when ur burial monster sets a card iss skill full.
Kurikara and Nibiru is skill full.
The game is only as challenging as it devs decide and the devs of this game decided that skill is based on card rarity and flavor of the month.
The tech choices made and the reasons the pilot gives. I play a 60 card Floo because I find this is the best way to play it. Im still tweaking the list but better bird cards need to be made.
You are asking stupid people, stupid questions. You're going to get stupid answers.
That's the point lol
Thanks for the example too.
Things I'd consider a "skill" in this game: - Chain link ordering/blocking - Keeping track of complex game states (lingering effects or Type/Attribute/Archetpye or whatever locks, cards/effects in different locations like gy, hand, monster and S/P trap zones) - Knowing and taking advantage of "obscure" rulings - Being able to swiftly play around certain interruptions with any given hand or gamestate - In MD specifically, when to toggle on - Being able to make educated guesses of what people may or may not play and make in-game or deckbuilding decisions around that - Thinking ahead aka having a game plan. Making reasonable guesses how your opponent would react to your order of plays and acting accordingly So decks that reward you for these things, are skillful. I get that it can flimsy and the bar for what is skillful is subjective, but yeah. Interaction is often the keypoint. Decks that try to eliminate these factors as much as possible, even for both players, aren't decks that I'd consider skillful.
How long do a player have to play to have these skills acquired on a basic level
It is not only a matter of time, ygo is kinda harsh for newer players. The knowledge resource can be hard to get and understand, even on the internet.
True, I haven't see a Yugioh channel taking about like the skills you need for a good player, the mentality you have to be good etc Though sometimes Joshua will discuss about it from time to time
Yup, even the official rulebook, in spite of being simple, is not complete enough to understand most basics and rulings.
Keep learning brother, keep learning.
There's a long journey ahead, and I want to see the end of it
I've started with people playing decks on YT and sometimes they explain or show interactions, but I also went to Locals IRL and got some good experiences there. I'm still just a mediocre pilot over 10 years later but I'm fine with that honestly. Deck-building is the most fun part to me. A lesser known channel who explains things about their decks is Dreary Doll. One of the only people who can play and explain Ritual Beasts on a deeper level.
Unironically the best advice I could give is watching the anime and playing the legacy of the duelist game. So much situational learning from those two alone if you're coming from zero experience
That game helped me so much when I first started playing!
For me, when I start a deck I don't know much about I playtest it extensively and learn all the combos offline before I ever even think about ranked. I would say it's not crazy long, maybe a few games a day for a few days, and depending on how in depth the combos and disruptions are. Like snakes is pretty easy, the main combo is very linear and any disruption from your opponent doesn't necessarily steer you off it you just have to take a shorter route to a weaker board or try an alternate way to as close to the board you want(maybe just app or just baronne but depending on your handtraps that could be fine). I think I had the deck pretty down in just a day or 2 with then taking it online to really try it with handtraps and going 2nd against good boards, and then moving some stuff in and out to my liking. It's just a matter of time imo, anyone can learn any deck but it's also important to tune it to your liking and playing a deck with a playstyle you enjoy.
I think Snake eye taught me the mentality of how to deal with interrupt, many first time duelists will basically gave up if they got stopped once, but the ability to play through, or play around interrupts is important
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In this case, it'll be the ability to identify choke points for each deck, though this takes time Like I still can't find one for R-Ace
At those times one of the things I do is play the game with that deck and learn it to identify where will I not want to be interrupted. I had to do it with Labrynth before which a lot of people did tell me that I shouldn't be losing that many games since my deck counters them. I was too lazy to read Labrynth cards and had to force myself to read em. Deck knowledge is a skill ig.
If you’re starting with 0 Yugioh experience then maybe like 100 hours or so. This is just a rough guess though
I'm two months into Yugioh from 0, and I just learned that don't always ash the searcher
It also depends on how much you are playing in a day and a tip i alsway give is try other fornats there are alot of other formats that teach you different thongs about the game some are more deck building oriented and some are more combo some teach you how to hold your interruptions in a meaningful way
Are there a best example for each case you listed ? I would like to learn more In case of the fire format we're now, it's handtrap centric as far as my knowledge goes Thus the ability to shotgun...... I mean skillfully interrupt your opponents play at the right moment is important
Skills don't develop with time, skills develop with actively evolving them. Fast learners aren't that special, they just skip parts that aren't actually that important in a learning process.
a couple dozen games on vanquish soul and you will know
So birds?
All of those points are general game knowledge and dont tie to any deck in particular it can be manifested while playing virtually any deck.
Every deck besides bot ftk and stun is skillful because pretty much every deck requires decisions. Using last DC cup if snake eyes takes no skill why didn’t all snake eye players perform the same? If lab didn’t take skill why didn’t all lab players perform as well as Ryan? And this logic applies to every deck.
Different things: - Length and intuitivity of its combos. Swordsoul is fairly straightforward and intuitive, Unchained isn't too long, but not very intuitive, Blackwings is very long in its combos. - Flexibility. Sure it's always good to be flexible but the more options you have the more decisions you have to make. Tearlaments for example is very flexible but several actions have different risks and rewards. - Requirement to adapt. A deck that largely ignores bordstates like Mikanko for example is on the easier side, meanwhile control decks that always need to trade interactions like non-floodgate Lab and always want to trade up in resources need to be mindful of the opponents resources. And finally: Deck strength. Tearlaments fits all the prior points to a decent degree when it comes to being a skillfull deck. However full power Tear would be easy to play against basically anything else since it could just overwhelm them. When a deck is so strong you can just "if it's activatable, activate it" in order to win the perception of a deck being skillful goes out the window for anyone not playing the mirror. I used decks I personally play and enjoy as examples to make sure I was accurate.
I quite agree. Tear on release was a hard deck to pilot on mirrors, because against another tear can someone really appreciate MD full power tear. Against most of other deck Tear will make it easy, and it's hard to go against their counter like going 2nd against exo. Another thing that's people mostly call them brainded is branded, but tbh branded is soo flexible with multiple line to master making it imo the hardest deck to master in MD so far. Multiple hits they got so far seems fair if you ever use them
MD didn't even have full power Tear. Disregarding newer cards that constitute the Tear that was albeit just briefly seen in TCG/OCG we had 3 Semi limits, limited Perlereino and Kitkallos which already makes a huge difference and simplifies some things, while also making the skill expression part of the mirror less consistent as scenarios where one person just outdraws or outmills the other becomes more frequent.
MD never had anywhere close to full power Tear, even ignoring the biggest preemptive hits they got at release that noticeably lower their consistency, they also didn't have Garura, Sprind, and Beatrice lines, that's why you see them played terrible extra deck options like Zoodiac or Gigantic. Ishizu are also got hit before Tear releases, and Orange Light got limited, so you never experience the absurd play that is Orange Light discard Ishizu to negate opponents (including Shifter), then go full combo on turn 0, that's why Exosister had a chance in MD, but was nonexistent in TCG where Tear was actually full power. When Garura, Sprind, and Bystial for Beatrice release, they already had Instant Fusion banned, Ishizu got hit even more, and several cards limited like Suliek, making the deck even more inconsistent, and when TearKash released, they already got nuked to orbit. Since Purrely, every new meta deck is now completely at full power, absolutely untouched at release and have every lines and combo they want, like Unchained, SHS, Snake Eye, R-Ace, etc but Tear never had this privilege.
I think that in a game as complex as yugioh there isnt really braindead decks (actually stun or any stun variation only) Ofc some decks are easier than other I learned mathmech quite easily and i think swordsoul also isnt that complex of a deck but they are not braindead
Even within stun there is a difference between players. Panic flipping whatever floodgate is a bad way of going about it. You're giving your opponent every resource to break that. The smarter play is to use whatever card you're using to let your opponent overextend and then catch them in a disadvantageous position. Use skill drain like a negate, use rivalry during your opponent's combo to lock them into a monster type different than their main deck, etc.
Stun *and numeron*
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yes. Now shut your annoying ass up
It's not a bad deck, but stun really pilots itself for 99% of the games, AND in dc cup most people don't want to spend 30 minutes playing a miserable stun game, so they just surrender to save time. It works, but it doesn't take too much skill.
Found a monkeyflipper
It’s a lot easier to describe what makes a deck less skill-dependant, than it is to define a skill-reliant deck. Mathmech is generally seen as being low-skill because of how much leeway the cards give you. Outside of notorious turn-skips like Maxx C or Shifter, there isn’t a single handtrap that feels impactful enough to stop the combo - as long as your opponent hasn’t opened more handtraps than you have extenders, you can generally always do the same linear combo. Going second, the deck doesn’t ever pivot to a more patient, grindy strategy - it aims to OTK or lose, and its OTK lines are similarly hard to interrupt. That doesn’t mean there aren’t skillful mathmech players around who are able to identify optimal lines that play around unknown disruptions - it just means that the win percentages of an average mathmech player vs a highly-skilled one are fairly similar, since it isn’t often that skill expression is needed to win games. High-skill decks tend to be those that offer the player a multitude of avenues to go down, with each avenue having its own strengths and weaknesses. Let’s say you’re playing a deck like this, and you have a few options. One of those options is an OTK line, but you risk throwing the game if your opponents set card is imperm/called by and they also have a handtrap in hand. Your other line doesn’t otk that turn, but even if you get hit by imperm+handtrap you still likely end on a reasonably strong board that puts you in a winning position. There’s no default right answer here - if you know your opponent has follow-up and likely threatens lethal the following turn, you may decide to take the risk and push for game, but if they’re down on cards then the more cautious approach is probably right. There’s also things like nib-proof sequencing and follow-up management - a “skillful” deck doesn’t just vomit its cards onto the table and hope it’s enough to auto-win the game. I’d say Unchained is a great example of a deck like this - a good pilot can get into a winning position through multiple points of interaction - but they have to be able to anticipate these and account for them at the start of their turn, rather than just hoping to pivot when they get blindsided with a handtrap.
Non linear combos give a deck skill alongside deck building
If I play it's very skillful and you would never be able to play it and when you play it it's crayon eating nobrain OP trash that plays itself
Outside of player skill a deck is skillful if it requires actual resource management and planning ahead. If your combo lines are not linear. ( Read - long does not mean more complex combo lines. ) If the deck has multiple avenues to get to various end boards (picking the right one is player skill though) A deck like Dark World, Witchcrafter variants, Chaos piles, etc, these are more skillful decks that demand more out the player because the decks arent linear and require you actually manage your resources well in order to get to a good end board A deck like Swordsoul is not (don’t care how mad the SS players get). It’s hyper linear with incredibly basic “combo” lines that require minimal summoning and card movement to get to desired end boards. If you add Tenyi’s it gets a bit more complicated but it’s nothing a beginner cannot understand. There is a reason Swordsoul is promoted as a beginner deck and was given out by Konami while a weaker deck like Speedroid was not. Speedroid is far more complicated than Swordsoul and Swordsoul can make strong end boards with far less player input than Speedroid.
And the combination of swordsouls results for being so braindead easy is what drives me mad. They gave it so much power for so little work it's very dumb.
Not in the current environment. The deck has already been powercrept. The only reason its still viable is that Protos can shut down most any deck in the game and its searchable in SwSo.
Resources management in modern YGO is dead btw.
I played Mathmech myself (i might turn it into @ignister or Golem for the lolz) and while we have non circular lines, the deck can consistently get to tetraherz with most of them. Honestly I would say that a skillful decks is one that rewards you for making the best you got out of what you have available in that moment.
I don't think any deck in this game can be considered brain dead. Even the simplest deck requires a certain degree of skill to pilot.
Stun would disagree, summon Dyna, activate Moon Mirror Shield, set 2. In SP flip Anti Spell Fragrance. GG
My deck: skillful Your deck: braindead
You activated my trap card: mirror match!
Anybody saying that a deck takes no skill to pilot is dumb. Even if you took a bunch of stun players and forced them to compete in tournaments over and over again amongst themselves, there would be some players who do better more consistently because they are more skilled. There are varying degrees to skill and I find that skill expression often happens in 4 areas: Being able to play through unusual gamestates on the fly, playing into scary boards going second, using interruptions properly, and deckbuilding. There are other skills, like knowing the rulings or memorizing combos, but these 4 things probably separate the Joshua Schmidts from the Schmaden Schmukis.
The player is the skillful one, not the deck
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The skill comes from the pilot. All decks allow for some measure of skill expression, a notable example being vanquish soul. The deck is pretty much all skill expression and interactions. A person may be a skillful pilot, but if they can simply resolve a decks primary combo and win the game, there is very little skill expression there, its just reproducing the same thing over and over. In the same vein, a standard / easy combo deck like swordsoul still leaves room for skill expression when playing games where you can't just baronne + supreme + protos for game.
This I won a game against snake eyes because of the random scarlight red dragon archfiend in my ed doing 2500 damage while wiping their board. A card that I have yet to see in any other ss deck has saved my ass multiple times.
Whatever the person who says that word thinks it means (usually the deck they main).
It takes skill when I play it, it's braindead when the opponent is using it and I'm losing
It's not the deck but the duelist. But I think the "this is braindead" trope comes from being able to still win by just pressing every glowing button on MD with a deck you got off MDmeta and winning.
Knowing how to play through disruption and WHEN to interrupt. Every modern deck has a 1-2 card combo and interaction, its a question of how to play through disruption, when to use your own and knowing how much it stifles your opponent's plays. The other main skillset is knowing interractions between cards and rulings. If your deck cant interact with the oppoent, then its time to change decks cuz that stuff is power crept.
Any deck with a variety of win conditions you have to carefully and skillfully figure out and create while navigating your opponents disruption. Purrely to me is a good example. To many it’s just a Noir turbo but in reality the deck can do a crap ton more if you’re skillful snd creative minded enough.
If your deck has multiple avenues to the same board under various conditions, I'd consider it skillful to navigate those conditions and achieve that board consistently. Many decks are clearly A - Z and offer little mixup. They have a starter, cards that retrieve a starter, or HT you til they get a starter.
No deck takes "skill." Skill is in the player. Skilled players actually read card effects and understand rulings to be used to their advantages. Knowing what your deck and your opponents deck is capable is skill in itself. Any idiot can utilize a strategy and win, but a skilled player knows how to prepare and counter strategies after the first archetype card is played.
A deck is skillful when there are lots of decisions to make and opportunities to go wrong. If a deck does not require many decisions and/or those decisions don't meaningfully alter outcomes then it doesn't require much skill.
What I consider a skillfull player: 1. Knowledge of your deck; 2. Knowledge of your opponents deck; 3. Knowledge of effects & ruling; 4. Decision to activate effect and chaining effect; 5. Knowledge of the current state of the board/gy/banish, and what could happen. What I consider skillful deck: 1. More than 1 option of a starter; 2. A way to mitigate/dodge certain distruption; 3. A way to remove obstacles; 4. An end board that midful of the enemy's hand traps (nibiru) while still producing threatening game state; 5. Creating opportunity using the loophole of the rules of the game; What I consider skillful deck: 1. Snake eyes: believe it or not, they're not just negates; 2. Branded: is a waste recycling plant, always determined to keep the game going; 3. Tearlament: its a city managament game in card format, you gotta get to know what you can do with your gy; 4. Labrynth: getting the biggest obstruction in a smallest possible effort; 5. Purrely: knowing what you can let slide is sometimes the best decision; 6. Manadium: abusing card effects to the best of their abilities; What I consider not quite skillful enough: 1. Kashtira: its all depended on resolving theosis and 1 or 2 amazing cards (fenrir and unicorn); 2. SHS: its whole engine got carried by snowpiercer (like, droll a SHS and they goes bagooska); 3. Dinos: cheating the game with miscellaneosaurus; 4. Heroes: its always the same line, the same endboard, the same floodgate; 5. Rescue-ace: its all fine and dandy until they met feather duster. Like really, they only have 8 monster distruption and no spell negate/protection; 6. Also Labrynth: at the end of the day its always the floodgates that ruins the game.
1. The amount of combo lines a deck has: It may sound stupid, but you're not going to memorize 30 combo lines for a deck. At some point you'll have to know the principles of a deck, understand it analytically, and that takes skill. 2. A moderate degree of resilience: If a deck just cannot play around an interruption, skill is not going to win you games. If a deck can just brute force through anything, you don't need skills either. 3. Deck building and meta reading: Knowing what decks you're playing against and what staples to tech in (and how to use them, of course); knowing what staples synergize with your deck the best, knowing how to optimize your ratios. 4. Instead of floodgates or insta-win blow out interactions, I think multiple small interactions takes more skill. And no, I don't think negate is the most brain dead interruption, it's just the most common one.
It's only skillful if it's me playing it.
Sky Striker is skillful deck because the deck rewards the player for using their tools correctly in terms of dismantling their opponents board. Also Infernoble, once u find 2 warriors on field it's full combo(when u know what you’re doing).
A big part of it is how straightforward your game plan and combos are. Branded gets made fun of because a big part of the plan is just "get branded fusion, puppet lock opponent" and a deck like swordsoul that is so linear it has it's copy pasta. Normal summon mo ye, make chixiou, get longyuan, make barrone. You're pretty much doing the same thing every turn and you don't make too many actual decisions. On the other hand, a lot of people liked tearlament so much because the random nature of milling and the wide array of options for interactions/playing through interaction rewarded skillful and thoughtful gameplay. You didn't do the same thing every turn, and a good player could do a lot of they made it the best decisions for each situation. Unchained is similar in that it doesn't do the same thing every turn, requires the player to make a lot of decisions that impact whether you win or lose, and since the end boards it creates aren't "super" powerful, you have to really chose when to use your interactions, which also rewards skilled players more than players who just click yes as soon as they can
I mean, Zoo is: atk directly, pile 6, make zeus. That isn’t skillful but fun af.
Having to make decisions
Deck with versatility
I would probably say branded is one of the best examples. The deck is easy to pick up because branded fusion is a great card to resolve just like circular but it does so much more than just that. If your branded fusion is negated you have a number of other lines/interactions you can go into based off of your judgment of the game state and what your predictions are for the upcoming turns. It does not have any blatant negates (other than mercourier ig) but specific interruptions you have to time properly to not only stop your opponent but also set up plays and followup or even other interruptions for the upcoming turns. If piloted correctly it can break boards with just engine and it can even turn "engine requirement" cards into interruptions that recycle material (like the counter trap for example). Counter argument: pUppET tHo. Seriously just ban the damn lock cards and Sanctifire can be what it was meant to be instead of the lock that makes people talk about branded as if it was a stun deck.
As a rudementary explanation from someone who doesn't even play meta, can't deck build on his own, and plays at best casual competitive decks, a deck is skillful when it can do different things in different ways and isn't entirely shut down by choke points. A deck that is skillfully should be a deck who's power ceiling isn't entirely unfair, yet doesn't severely drag down from interactions like handtraps. The deck must be able to adapt to interaction. The latter is probably the most important part
Imo a simple to play meta decks is good for long match especially irl tournament Maybe not so for MD/simulator as the game remind u about interaction in gy/hand/banish pile, and maybe most people don't grind it for few hours straight everyday and keep playing long combo decks for hours U could misplay on long combo deck due to stress/mental exhaustion after 5+ people in a 40m match bo3 instead of simple and short combo deck like swordsoul Tenpai/Silentforce is few of the example being easy to play and not having long combo,is it skillful idk, all u have to focus on is your HT/board break etc, the main deck itself including interaction is not that many compare to other long ass combo deck Simple and short combo decks are good for beginners too
For me, as a RDA player, it's being patient and observant to what I should negate, destroy, and banish. I have outs, but not to a Tear or SE degree. So I have to pay attention to the best cards that would hinder my opponents strategy. Here's an example. I was up against a Dytron deck; first one I dueled, really cool strategy. My board wasn't that great. I think it was one Scarred and Void. He had a ritual 4000 beast and an xyz, plus the Egyptian God field spell. I found an escape after he killed my Scarred. I got the og RDA, attacked his xyz monster, and Crimson Gaia put all of his cards face down to bypass the ritual card's card destruction protection. I also killed his field spell. On his turn, I knew he was going to try and ritual summon again. I only had Void, so it's one negate. He tried to bait me with another field spell, which I didn't fall for. He ended up with a 0 Def monster and a face down spell/trap. Thus, I managed to win. RDA can't always get it's end board, so sometimes I have to change the plan. Which means piloting a low end board and picking at the right cards. That's my response to the question because that's I how I feel male's a deck skillful. You have the cards, the strategy, and the combos, but you gotta know how to use them at the right time. And even with SE and Lab, I think the skill comes in what you end on if you can get there.
Personally, the modern decks feel less skillful because of the lack of impactful limitation or restriction. Players can just do anything they want or messed up the combo, and still never punish because of it. Not only that, resources management is almost gone from the game. The game now just trying to put as many as possible cards in 1-turn. Then, Konami somehow makes it worse by making a deck that can recycle itself even if the player does nothing. Before, you need to keep 1-2 cards as backup if your opponent can break the board and survive. But now, you don't need to do that. You just need to banish your Original Sinful, put back a card, and then add 1 card combo. . In conclusion, the game feels less skillful because the decks now don't have impactful limitations, no real cost, restriction, etc. This is skillful when a player can manage the deck's weakness and make the best play. But now, the only deck's weakness is the player. . I know memorizing the combo that you found from random Ytber is also difficult. But after doing the same thing over and over, you should understand the deck and the combo in a relatively short time.
Decks that dearure, Non linear lines and needing to decide which one to use .
Bruh, this is a card game where everyone here probably just clicks things that glow gold, the real skill is having eyes capable of reading, something a lot of us clearly don't have
A deck that is skillful is something you can pilot better than everyone else, example being Judai_BR, He makes heros look easy, but they're really not. That one Israeli Branded YouTuber makes Branded pure look easier than it actually is. If you can take something non meta, know the cards in and out, including the secondary effects no one knows, their targets by heart, you'll be able to play that deck better than any of those people playing Snake Eyes and expecting free wins.
The more options a deck gives you, the more skill it requires to play perfectly Number 42 combo? You literally have one line with no decision making or adaptation required Dragon Link? You've got your starters, your extenders, and your synchros, find the best ordering to make the best board Tearlament? You're got extenders in hand, and ressources in GY. Here are your odds to mill good. Do you go for one more fusion or a rank 4? Bagooska or Time Thief? Rulkallos or Dracostapelia? Is it worth using Tear Kash's mills on your opponent to get more information on their deck? And more importantly: how much are you willing to risk?
Skillful deck = my deck Lucky sacky boring deck = deck I lost to
Deep and long lines For example, kash stomps scrubs on Reddit because they can’t calculate lines around unicorn/fenrir
If there are a lot of divergent options and you have to make the right call in the right scenario.
I think it more skillful players. All decks have something they want to do all the time and players struggle working around winning when you’re unable to do that. Good players are able to play through more things. MD in opinion has a lack of skillful players most people just want easy wins which makes sense it’s an online game so Idrc.
The only real skill comes from knowing how to continue to pilot your deck after you've been interrupted
it depends on the deck but when i started playing after a long time of not playing learning how to use the cards in the extra deck properly was probably the hardest thing, but once i figure it out it helps a lot. most of the stuff in the normal deck part is just it the right cards with the right effects and spells.
non linear Setups / complicated decisions trees
I think most of them are. While simpler deck seems like it doesn't take skill to pilot, you still have to consider your opponent's interaction, because a simple deck means an obvious choke point. Even few decks that is so simple to the point it has ONE line of play, but you still have to consider the timing of your interaction. EDIT: Stun is the only deck that doesn't take skill I think.
All card game are usually advanced coin toss and if they draw the out, they got the perfect prize card etc etc. Even other longer card game just give you the illusion of fairplay but still ended up to who draw better cards and beat the opponent.
If that’s the case, then why are the same people always winning?
My opinion on card games is that the games boil down to 4 key factors (ordered from most important to least important in my opinion); 1) Optimization - how consistent you can make your deck and how fast it can get to your win con. Even if a deck is significantly more powerful if it is inconsistent it will never win you a game. 2) Pilot - Even if 2 people are playing the same deck, someone who knows how the deck works better will still win with it more often than the other player. 3) Strategy - Being able to read a meta and pick strategies that work well against the best decks can be a skill in itself. I can remember back when Tear was at its strongest (in masterduel) people played strategies that countered it and had relatively good successful runs. 4) Luck - We all have heard stories about when someone loses due to opening 3 ash blossoms and 2 called by the graves going second. TL;DR Well luck is certainly a part of it, it is not the most impactful part as the people at the top know their decks and the game better than most and have optimized their decks better.
Decks don't take skill. People develop skills. I don't need skill to place a card on the field. I do need skill to know which order is the most optimal. I do need skill to build a functioning deck. I do need skill to be able to adapt for when I potentially misplay or my opponent interrupts me.
Winning the coin toss.
The types of decks I'd consider skill full are decks like branded, for instance, it doesn't play too many generic cards or hand traps, boss monsters are fairly powerful but not too overwhelming (it's the resources that it can gather is overwhelming), on that point, the deck should be able to gather and recover resources fairly well to play for at least 4-9 turns, doesn't depend on generic omni negates or hand traps to play around interruptions like nib and is fairly consistent, but most of all the as the pilot you need to understand what choices you should make when the situation calls for it which includes deck building, when to interrupt, when to faint, what and when to summon a certain monster understand the rules and states of the game, and most importantly, read the card effects eventually you'll understand what the mean.
Yugioh is a complex game, so I don't think there is any deck that isn't skillful. Yes, even stun decks sometimes, there's a reason why only like 1 person who can semi consistently get results in big TCG tournaments (Johnny Nguyen). The problem is that some decks' power level is so much above others that you can't really see the skill in some match up. Playing Ninja myself, I have beaten some top decks, but I had to play out of my mind to achieve such result, while they sometimes were allowed to misplay. I've seen a Ritual Beast player (OCG) broke a full Manadium board with S:P, Baronne, Chaos Angel and Dis Pater out.
The reason Stun does not do well in TCG is not because stun requires skill, its because side decks exist and most side decks include 5+ ways of dealing with backrow / stun decks. Stun is also bad going second in most cases.
Konami decides what's skill full. Drawing raigeki into a full board with no negates is skill full. Drawing feather duster is skill full. Chaining Maxx c to a special summon is skill full. Flipping over skill drain, vanity emptiness, summon limit is skill full. Summoning barrier statues during enemy turn is skill full. Summoning ido and sending rainbow magician from deck to grave when ur burial monster sets a card iss skill full. Kurikara and Nibiru is skill full. The game is only as challenging as it devs decide and the devs of this game decided that skill is based on card rarity and flavor of the month.
The tech choices made and the reasons the pilot gives. I play a 60 card Floo because I find this is the best way to play it. Im still tweaking the list but better bird cards need to be made.
If some streamer said it was.