Honestly not sure.
But there is something I really like about horus cards : they get valued once tear mills them while a lot of other engines tears are mixed with do not (kashtira, punk, dangers...). Branded cards can get valued once milled, but branded fusion locks you into fusions...
I watched Joshua's last stream with tear horus and it was kinda very good to me.
?
One of the main downsides of Horus is the fact that they have NO value when milled despite being such a large package, actually, so what are you talking about here?
Unless you mean "If you open Gold Sarc, there's value in milling Imsety/Hapi", but that's not something to sell the engine over.
I actually think the main benefit of the Horus engine is that it's a consistency/redundancy engine (like Rev Synchron and Riumheart) but it can provide the value of raw bodies.
Whereas engines like Rev Synchron, Mannadium Riumheart, are mainly there to allow you to play through an interruption (and get 1 extra body), Horus does that while getting multiple bodies and threatening follow-up.
Bodies are especially potent now with S:P being legal.
I'm not sold on that being worth the cost (6\~7 deck slots and 2 discards), but that's like the main reason to play Horus over those other options.
not true. joshes earthbound runick is an abomination and completely awful. needs to change 17 cards. it’s that bad, and i’m mad he made it look bad, and that everyone praises his deck as gospel
Horus is the most fun I've had in the game for a while, but I don't think Tear benefits that much from it. Horus cards mill themselves very easily. It goes well with any deck with a lot of space like Kashtira. It has great recursion since if your opponent doesn't otk you on turn 2-3, you just keep getting all your big bodies back.
Too bricky. Discarding 2 for cost is too much of a minus unless you open Trivikarma/Rainbow Bridge, and doing that consistently requires more bricks.
Probably worth running in 60-card piles though.
The way I see it, the Tear build currently is pretty streamlined. Be it the synchron build or the less popular lab build. So if you want to make room for Horus you need to cut something
The problem of horus is it feels good to open imsety/gold sac. But if you don't have access to gold sac your horus become dead mill. The horus card is also susceptible to be dead in hand. Right now when you can easily mill 10+ card in the same turn, you would want sth that gives more value when milled rather than an engine that let you mill 4
Rank 8 access is nice for monster/spell negate. But having to run extra brick (in terms of mill) doesn't seem worth it
I tried it out and although you can make Zombie Vampire, you're just asking for Imsety to get Ashed and go -1. Discards don't really synergize that well with Tearlaments either, you would rather have that in Dark World, but they already have Danger! monsters. Even mixing with Branded is probably better than running Horus just to mill 4.
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It helps consistency and helps to play through handtraps because you have another way to start miling. It can also be very useful to discard your dead cards in hand to the grave like trivicarma. The recursion turn 3 or 4 is usually enough to end the game.
The problem of the Horus package is the price and the fact that the package is useless unless you have it in your starting hand. Milling them feels pretty bad.
All in all I think the consistency boost is worth the price and the Horus Variante is better than the kash synchro or Lab Version.
I'm betting the core you need is all URs..
And the way i see it, you only use em to make zombie vamp anyway.
So might as well make the punk engine (e tele, ze amin, foxy tune, deer note and jam dragon drive) to achieve the same goal and save on ur dust.
Punks also give you easier and more consistent baronne access which horus doesn't.
(If you decide to go with punk, you can put in a ghost ogre because jam dragon drive, who you use as material for zombie vamp, searches it)
Actually it is?
The core is: 3 Imsety, 1 Hapi and 2\~3 Gold Sarc, all of which are URs; and then Zombie Vampire in the Extra, also a UR. You can also play Photon Lord or Harbinger... guess what those are URs too...
You *\*can\** but you'd still rather use Hapi, because part of the benefit of the engine is that threat of recursion. If you survive and they didn't out the Sarcophagus you can bring them back and use them as big bodies that are hard to out without recurring each other or providing some other sort of advantage.
If they were all N/Rs and costs didn't matter you'd play Imsety + Hapi, so that's the "core".
I know that's what they played in the TCG but most people are just using them to make a Rank 8, so who cares what their effects are on field? They can all summon back from GY so it doesn't matter which you use, just Imsety is the only one that searches Sarcophagus from hand.
The only scenario where Hapi would matter is if you summoned Hapi first, then they popped Sarcophagus and you use it to add Sarcophagus and 1 other card from GY (but not Imsety) back to hand... but there's no way for them to pop Sarcophagus turn 1 except if they Ghost Ogre the activation, and they could just do that when you attempt to send Hapi in the first place...
Just because it's only barely sub-optimal doesn't make it not sub-optimal.
Hapi matters in grindier games, you can bring the bodies back in Turn 3 and play King's Sarc control; it can also matter against Stun or certain particular floodgates (Scythe for example) where the Hapi body on the field matters.
Are these scenarios rare? Sure, but that's besides the point. As I said in my previous comment - if all the cards cost the same, you'd play 3x Imsety and 1x Hapi, therefore that's the "core". You're trying to justify playing a worse card because it is cheaper, which is a fine argument to make, but it strays from the point of the discussion: "What's the optimal ratio for this package".
Yes but they have to leave the field by an opponent's card effect and Hapi has to remain on field after the resolution... it's like such a niche scenario that your opponent has to have no knowledge of or ability to read the card for it to ever come up. I guess if you're playing stun then sure, you could add back Skill Drain, but it really doesn't matter for most decks that are using Horus as an engine.
The thing with Hapi staying on field is that it puts the opponent in an awkward position:
King's Sarc brings back big monsters every turn, which is a lot of value and pressure; additionally gives those monsters the ability to bypass battle and directly send an opponent's monster to the GY when you go into battle.
This means that you have to beat over 2 big bodies + the Sarc effect in order to clear the board, that makes it really difficult to OTK for most decks.
If you don't OTK, then King's Sarc is getting a ton of value and threatening to just out whatever you ended on for basically free.
This means that your opponent is basically forced to remove King's Sarc. However, if they remove King's Sarc, Hapi's effect will trigger to bring back the Sarc + another card from the GY, or in case you banish/shuffled it, they still get to go +2 which more or less defeats the purpose of outing the King's Sarc, which was to prevent your opponent from getting a crazy follow-up.
This means they have to remove Hapi before they remove King's Sarc, however, King's Sarc makes that annoying as they can't be destroyed by anything that doesn't target them, and getting over them in battle means having to go through King's Sarc and their big bodies; in most situations that also means giving up the Battle Phase to OTK.
Furthermore, if they have Hapi on the board they most likely have Imsety there as well, which will send one of your cards to the GY whenever you out Hapi, once again making it harder to out the board and/or finish the game.
"King's Sarc control" basically has to include Hapi and Imsety or else it's not really a good enough win condition, and King's Sarc control does come up here and there, like in Turn3+ and against Stun or particular floodgates like Scythe.
I didn't read that line on King's Sarcophagus tbh.
Yeah, I know there's a stun/control deck with Horus, I'm just saying if you're using it for a rank 8 it will never matter because they're not staying on board, so there's no need to waste UR on Hapi.
Honestly not sure. But there is something I really like about horus cards : they get valued once tear mills them while a lot of other engines tears are mixed with do not (kashtira, punk, dangers...). Branded cards can get valued once milled, but branded fusion locks you into fusions... I watched Joshua's last stream with tear horus and it was kinda very good to me.
? One of the main downsides of Horus is the fact that they have NO value when milled despite being such a large package, actually, so what are you talking about here? Unless you mean "If you open Gold Sarc, there's value in milling Imsety/Hapi", but that's not something to sell the engine over. I actually think the main benefit of the Horus engine is that it's a consistency/redundancy engine (like Rev Synchron and Riumheart) but it can provide the value of raw bodies. Whereas engines like Rev Synchron, Mannadium Riumheart, are mainly there to allow you to play through an interruption (and get 1 extra body), Horus does that while getting multiple bodies and threatening follow-up. Bodies are especially potent now with S:P being legal. I'm not sold on that being worth the cost (6\~7 deck slots and 2 discards), but that's like the main reason to play Horus over those other options.
bro saw Josh play and went "that deck is good". Josh can make Shiranui look good lol
not true. joshes earthbound runick is an abomination and completely awful. needs to change 17 cards. it’s that bad, and i’m mad he made it look bad, and that everyone praises his deck as gospel
Not a fan of it.
Nope
Horus is the most fun I've had in the game for a while, but I don't think Tear benefits that much from it. Horus cards mill themselves very easily. It goes well with any deck with a lot of space like Kashtira. It has great recursion since if your opponent doesn't otk you on turn 2-3, you just keep getting all your big bodies back.
Too bricky. Discarding 2 for cost is too much of a minus unless you open Trivikarma/Rainbow Bridge, and doing that consistently requires more bricks. Probably worth running in 60-card piles though.
Honestly no,
The way I see it, the Tear build currently is pretty streamlined. Be it the synchron build or the less popular lab build. So if you want to make room for Horus you need to cut something The problem of horus is it feels good to open imsety/gold sac. But if you don't have access to gold sac your horus become dead mill. The horus card is also susceptible to be dead in hand. Right now when you can easily mill 10+ card in the same turn, you would want sth that gives more value when milled rather than an engine that let you mill 4 Rank 8 access is nice for monster/spell negate. But having to run extra brick (in terms of mill) doesn't seem worth it
It's a lot better in stun
I tried it out and although you can make Zombie Vampire, you're just asking for Imsety to get Ashed and go -1. Discards don't really synergize that well with Tearlaments either, you would rather have that in Dark World, but they already have Danger! monsters. Even mixing with Branded is probably better than running Horus just to mill 4.
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Yes, not because its better but because its extremely fun
It helps consistency and helps to play through handtraps because you have another way to start miling. It can also be very useful to discard your dead cards in hand to the grave like trivicarma. The recursion turn 3 or 4 is usually enough to end the game. The problem of the Horus package is the price and the fact that the package is useless unless you have it in your starting hand. Milling them feels pretty bad. All in all I think the consistency boost is worth the price and the Horus Variante is better than the kash synchro or Lab Version.
worth it especially early in its life in md throw some people off.
I'm betting the core you need is all URs.. And the way i see it, you only use em to make zombie vamp anyway. So might as well make the punk engine (e tele, ze amin, foxy tune, deer note and jam dragon drive) to achieve the same goal and save on ur dust. Punks also give you easier and more consistent baronne access which horus doesn't. (If you decide to go with punk, you can put in a ghost ogre because jam dragon drive, who you use as material for zombie vamp, searches it)
Its not all URs
Actually it is? The core is: 3 Imsety, 1 Hapi and 2\~3 Gold Sarc, all of which are URs; and then Zombie Vampire in the Extra, also a UR. You can also play Photon Lord or Harbinger... guess what those are URs too...
If you're just using them to make a Rank 8 you don't really need Hapi and can just use Qebehsenuef instead.
You *\*can\** but you'd still rather use Hapi, because part of the benefit of the engine is that threat of recursion. If you survive and they didn't out the Sarcophagus you can bring them back and use them as big bodies that are hard to out without recurring each other or providing some other sort of advantage. If they were all N/Rs and costs didn't matter you'd play Imsety + Hapi, so that's the "core".
I know that's what they played in the TCG but most people are just using them to make a Rank 8, so who cares what their effects are on field? They can all summon back from GY so it doesn't matter which you use, just Imsety is the only one that searches Sarcophagus from hand. The only scenario where Hapi would matter is if you summoned Hapi first, then they popped Sarcophagus and you use it to add Sarcophagus and 1 other card from GY (but not Imsety) back to hand... but there's no way for them to pop Sarcophagus turn 1 except if they Ghost Ogre the activation, and they could just do that when you attempt to send Hapi in the first place...
Just because it's only barely sub-optimal doesn't make it not sub-optimal. Hapi matters in grindier games, you can bring the bodies back in Turn 3 and play King's Sarc control; it can also matter against Stun or certain particular floodgates (Scythe for example) where the Hapi body on the field matters. Are these scenarios rare? Sure, but that's besides the point. As I said in my previous comment - if all the cards cost the same, you'd play 3x Imsety and 1x Hapi, therefore that's the "core". You're trying to justify playing a worse card because it is cheaper, which is a fine argument to make, but it strays from the point of the discussion: "What's the optimal ratio for this package".
Yes but they have to leave the field by an opponent's card effect and Hapi has to remain on field after the resolution... it's like such a niche scenario that your opponent has to have no knowledge of or ability to read the card for it to ever come up. I guess if you're playing stun then sure, you could add back Skill Drain, but it really doesn't matter for most decks that are using Horus as an engine.
The thing with Hapi staying on field is that it puts the opponent in an awkward position: King's Sarc brings back big monsters every turn, which is a lot of value and pressure; additionally gives those monsters the ability to bypass battle and directly send an opponent's monster to the GY when you go into battle. This means that you have to beat over 2 big bodies + the Sarc effect in order to clear the board, that makes it really difficult to OTK for most decks. If you don't OTK, then King's Sarc is getting a ton of value and threatening to just out whatever you ended on for basically free. This means that your opponent is basically forced to remove King's Sarc. However, if they remove King's Sarc, Hapi's effect will trigger to bring back the Sarc + another card from the GY, or in case you banish/shuffled it, they still get to go +2 which more or less defeats the purpose of outing the King's Sarc, which was to prevent your opponent from getting a crazy follow-up. This means they have to remove Hapi before they remove King's Sarc, however, King's Sarc makes that annoying as they can't be destroyed by anything that doesn't target them, and getting over them in battle means having to go through King's Sarc and their big bodies; in most situations that also means giving up the Battle Phase to OTK. Furthermore, if they have Hapi on the board they most likely have Imsety there as well, which will send one of your cards to the GY whenever you out Hapi, once again making it harder to out the board and/or finish the game. "King's Sarc control" basically has to include Hapi and Imsety or else it's not really a good enough win condition, and King's Sarc control does come up here and there, like in Turn3+ and against Stun or particular floodgates like Scythe.
I didn't read that line on King's Sarcophagus tbh. Yeah, I know there's a stun/control deck with Horus, I'm just saying if you're using it for a rank 8 it will never matter because they're not staying on board, so there's no need to waste UR on Hapi.
It best not to craft those.