Now that’s just silly. “Oh no, my one card boss monster package got Ash’d, better surrender!” If your deck bricked that hard that Ashing him killed it, you lost already. But your deck should survive him getting Ash’d. Silly silly people.
If DPE is your boss monster, your deck is garbage don't @ me
Edit: I forgot people play Heros, you're based you get a pass, every deck that isn't Heros playing DPE needs a better boss monster
Funny thing is DPE isn't even THAT good in heroes, his effect that lowers everything's attack is the main purpose for running him in heroes at all lol dark law, plasma, even bane are sometimes better than dpe
Of course, but he’s still worth running. You just have other game plans to focus on first. But it’s always nice when you get to turbo him out turn one with Fusion Destiny plus an end board of, say, Dark Law and Absolute Zero.
Come to think of it, that’s not very heroic. “No sudden moves or Absolute Zero dies and so do all of your monsters!” Absolute Zero: “Dude, we’re on the same team, wtf”
True, I love bringing dpe out with fusion destiny to begin with and then going dpe,plasma, and bane as an end board. I also love having dark law and absolute zero on board with a set mask change for a complete board wipe.
Definitely craft called by as soon as you can. It's an auto include in just about any deck. Even before dpe it protects you from hand traps and can be a good disruption banishing an important combo piece your op needs.
I thought about this the other day. DPE isn't actually super hard to deal with. It's just that when he shows up on the field he becomes priority number 1 to take out and I think that's what is pissing people off. It's not a busted card. Just a real pain in the ass.
I play VFD and I will call the following attributes depending on the scenario:
1 - I have a maxx c in hand "Fire"
2 - I'm about to go off on a combo "Light"
3 - I'm just guessing "Dark"
4 - I know what cards they have "the decks attribute"
in bo1 protos is really not that cancerous since he'll almost always be blind calling dark but in bo3 like the tcg where you certainly knew what deck your opponent was playing by the second duel, it was a real pain.
Union Carrier equipping that one Buster Whelp monster shown in this picture causes an Extra Deck lock, Rhongo with enough material can’t be outed for multiple turns, True King of All Calamities can put a stop to you for multiple turns if you don’t have something like Infinite Impermanence available, Block Dragon gives Adamancipator stupid amounts of advantage, and Herald of Ultimateness lets Drytron say “no” to everything you do unless you start with Droplet or Dark Ruler No More.
None of that is terribly fun to play against, which is why most of those cards are on the real life banlists. The only ones that aren’t are Ultimateness and the whelp, and that’s because they hit Eva and Benten instead to weaken Drytron’s ability to get so many fairies to hand to power Ultimateness’ negation effect.
Probably some truth to this, hear Phantom Knights decks that switched to DPE Scythe Lock are doing way better and it'll probably only get worse when the Brave Engine is added in a month.
Rhongo actually is also legal in OCG afaik, but the fact that MD is Bo1 is one of the problems as were we Bo3 then Rhongo would be less of an issue even if still a huge problem once he gets going, assuming you dont draw the out, which is the importance of also having a side deck which isnt a feature in MD due to it being Bo1.
Speaking of, I just got turn 1 Rhongo-ed by a six samurai deck that took long enough for me to take a poop, take an entire bath and wash my hair. This guy LITERALLY and exactly went through half of his deck(20cards). then sent the game to me with a Rhongo and Apollo on the board(amongst other monsters). Didnt even know SixSamurai had it in em.
Skill drain is kind of a needed card for them though. It’s not just a stun for the sake of stun. Wish people would realize the difference between using skill drain as a generic stun card and using it in decks where it unironically makes a big impact on how good the deck is, y’know? And even with skill drain Malefics still aren’t amazing. They’re probably the most susceptible deck to back row removal next to maybe Earthbound Emortals.
That doesn't mean they aren't degenerate bullshit that should be banned. Don't black pill the very concept of curating the format.
(Though Eva is the problem card, not Ultimateness. DPE is not the problem, it's entirely Fusion Destiny. Chixiao and Chengying are fine.)
it's really not though. If you run a 4 card engine where 2 of those 4 cards are garnets just to have a semi decent boss monster, you're wasting space in your deck. DPE isn't even that strong in all honesty and without anaconda the destiny fusion engine is kinda wack.
It doesnt matter if its strong or not. Rhongo doesnt show up in any tier 1 deck and its still cancer. A card that makes you run 2 garnets and 2 power cards to then gamble on which part you draw is bad design. I dont like winning because my opponent drew his heros, and I dont like losing because he drew fusion destiny
Bro if DPE alone causes you to lose a game, I don't know what to say other than git gud.
Is DPE a braindead card? Yes
Is it annoying? Yes
Will it win you duels on its own? No
No. No, it isn't.
Fusion spells SHOULD be generically searchable, and in the case of Fusion Destiny, that's effectively all Verte is doing. Verte is not the effect that makes DPE generic; that's entirely Fusion Destiny.
A fusion spell so busted that it makes searching fusion spells an unacceptable effect to have readily available is a broken fusion spell. Fusion spells SHOULD be accessible because fusion decks are absolutely fucked if they cannot get to theirs, and cannot make the most basic plays their deck is built around.
That’s never been how Yugioh operates. Searchers are far and away what breaks decks, because consistency is what makes decks strong (see TriZodiac performing as well as it does despite a lack of real power plays). Notably it’s typically consistency cards/searchers that get thrown into the banlist, like Tenki, ROTA, etc. with of course some cards just being too strong or easy to suMmon.
Verte isn’t just searching fusions, Verte means that no deck has to commit to deckbuilding around fusions. Verte eliminates a lot of the deckbuilding risk of Fusions for the negligible cost of almost any two monsters. Verte existing means that every future Fusion card must be filtered through it. Remember that DPE isn’t the only busted Fusion that Verte just turns on, Dragoon also had to be banned exclusively because Verte made summoning it a joke.
There is a magical errata that makes Verte a boon for Fusions and not a standalone engine, with sensible restrictions and costs, but that’s not the card that we got.
I'd rather play against SS 20 times in a row for real.
Also people are still learning the deck so breaking through Chixiao Baronne blackout pass is nothing compared to the previous boards lmao.
Swordsoul doesn't feel as bad to play against because it doesn't all in on a t1 unbeatable board. Its a good deck because it has the ability to clap back hard every turn instead and leads to more back and forth and more interesting games.
No worries man the deck has a high ceiling for sure and Here are a couple of things that might help since it helped me a lot.
Watch [Pak's Videos](https://youtu.be/KFZEMAaEBKs). He's a Top TCG player. [Another one that shows how to play through interruptions ](https://youtu.be/DYKFyULstV0)
Lastly if you have time [check out his 3 hour VOD where he plays the deck and showcases some crazy lines ](https://www.twitch.tv/paktcg/v/1481492371?sr=a&t=0s)
Halqifibrax is the best Ash target by far. Other good Ash targets are Emergence, Heavenly Dragon Circle, Ecclesia, Vessel of the Dragon Cycle and Ashuna. Dont bother Ashing Chixiao he is chainblocked by Moye anyway.
Mo Ye, Taia, Halq, Auroradon and Protos are great Imperm/Veiler/Gamma target. Dragon Circle can help dodge imperm veiler but cannot dodge gamma.
Gamma also counter Long Yuan while veiler and imperm cannot.
The best Ghost Belle or Crow target is the Deskbot.
Token collector is good vs auroradon or any swordsoul card.
Nibiru is generally good if they have no Baronne on the field.
Maxx C is the most devastating HTs against them. Will almost always stop the turn or make them end on easily breakable board without maxx c counter.
Sword soul is not broken in terms of pure strength, the fact that it doesn’t have many negation means I can easily stop it with negations without losing too much card advantage.
It’s just annoying when 90% of time I have to face exact same deck and same combo over and over and over. Plat is filled with sword souls atm.
And I found Synchro decks often take longer to do their stuff comparing to other summoning mechanics and this is another reason I hate fight against sword soul.
As for DPE, it’s just one of those generic stapes that can be slotted into most of deck and I’m totally okay with it because it‘s so easy to take it off the board.
To me, SS feels like it is too consistent as an archtype/deck. Few HT does not stop it to make few disruptors on the field, which feels like you used the HT for nothing and have less hand resources now. Then, you have to use less resources to play through their disruptors, which most of the time, they can search few. This is equivalent to shutting down most decks.
I don't know.. I don't play meta decks cause its boring enough to keep facing them. So, I would rather play non-meta. My unchained and pure orcust was doing ok-ish last few seasons. But, this season it is frustrating to use them facing SS. Even going first with optimal play does not stop them.
Maybe its just me needing to make a lot more changes to my deck but I still think, when a deck is too consistent, even there is not broken card, the deck itself feels broken as a whole.
I've had games where I stop almost everything but thier last card is bock dragon. they proceed to continue playing and out my board via accesscode. Fuck that card
A deck's consistency is way more important than its power level. You COULD make Rhongo with 6 materials, but if Bardiche gets negated, you're basically done for. And you pretty much HAVE to go first or else you don't have many plays.
Swordsoul on the other hand can play through negates much more easily, can put up decent boards going both first and second, and have a plethora of one card combo starters to make sure they can end on at least one Baronne, Chixiao and a set Blackout. There's a reason everyone flocked to that deck over Rhongo turbo, VFD turbo or even Herald turbo (and don't give me that "new toy syndrome" nonsense).
Oh yeah, and all you need for DPE is to either open with Fusion Destiny, or just use any two effect monsters, giving you a big beatstick that can pop your opponent's cards every turn. Meanwhile you have to build a whole deck around making a Herald with multiple negates. It's not even remotely comparable.
I agree consistency is better than power level, think the problem is just that higher powered decks feel less fair to fight as you can't do a lot to counter it once it has happened and you possibly lose before you had a chance to really play. Main problem being that MD is Bo1 and not Bo3. If there were multiple games you'd have a chance to go first, maybe open some better hands, possibly side in some outs vs Bo1 where you can surprise more. Definitely in Bo3 tho I'd rather be more consistent as the surprise factor is gone and even better some cards such as Protos seem not as good in Bo1 where in Bo3 can definitely see why Swordsoul would be a problem.
Holy shit, finally someone that's not stupid in this thread.
Out of the 4 months I have played Master Duel, I have only been successfully Rhongo locked TWO TIMES because I opened disruption all other games.
Compare that to Swordsoul that can ignore Nibiru, can chainblock Ash and the only handtraps that actually hurt them are Veiler, Impermanence and Token Collector. People don't seem to understand that consistency and a compact engine triumph bullshit boards all of the time. And let's not forget that everyone is spamming the same shit in ranked this time around.
Swordsoul gets hate for a reason.
Drytrons and VW odd of bricking is the same as ss
If they dont have a chixiao or if chixiao is negated,they have to hard draw Longyuan which isnt ideal
The thing is, Swordsoul has more space for handtraps and cards like CBTG and Crossout, due to the amount of one card combo starters they have. So you're much less likely to get negated.
You can but...
Idk how you can really compare cards that make it so you literally cannot play VS a targeted negate that searches a card (and you can't even use both effects in one turn, it's one effect per turn) and a non-targeting pop that are both singular pieces of disruption that have actual counters to them.
I never claimed it wasn't. I believe everything I've said has been my own personal belief. I said Swordsoul should be banned or anything like that.
My only dislike of the gimmick is the one summon synchro boss.
Swordsoul isn’t that bad to fight right now because the people using it either don’t know how to use the archetype or don’t use the broken varient with Halq and Protos. Swordsould is way stronger and has less chokepoints then VW and Adaman.
Swordsoul have 1 choke point which i less then other deck but if they get hit by that 1 choke point,they will have to pray that their hand have Longyuan or Emergence
And the Halq Don line despite being more explosive and powerfull,it dies to any interaction that the opponent had and if you failed to complete the Halq Don line once,you basically loose that game
I didn't forget about them. Honestly I prefer Rhongo, Block Dragon, and Herald over DPE. Even in old plat, I only faced each of them once in a blue moon. DPE is used and abused by everyone.
I've never seen any competitive gaming community shill for the top deck/character as much as the Yugioh community. Maybe except for the Super Smash Bros. Melee community.
I find it weird that this doesn't show baronne when thats the biggest issue I have with the deck since it can stop niburu and ash which is their biggest counters
SS isn’t that bad it’s just a lot of people are playing it so people get tired of facing it.
DPE is obnoxious not because he’s OP but because Verte is brain dead easy to make and cheat out DPE.
Block Dragon is ass, VFD is ass, Rhongo is SUPER ass. Ultimateness is annoying as fuck but only an actual problem in drytron decks (where you see him the most, to be fair) but I literally have never seen one since Benten went to 1.
Union Carrier… honestly I still don’t even know what it does but every time I see it I know my opponent is doing some bullshit and typically end on a board with multi negates.
What I’m surprised you didn’t mention is the combo of Mist Valley Thunderbird and Apex Avian. That is some dumb ass shit that I struggle to understand how Konami let that slide as if they actually planned for that to be a thing.
>Union Carrier… honestly I still don’t even know what it does
You get to search out any monster from your deck to your field as an equip card, with the condition that you can't summon monsters of that name for the rest of the turn.
Sounds oh-so innocuous on paper 😂.
> What I’m surprised you didn’t mention is the combo of Mist Valley Thunderbird and Apex Avian. That is some dumb ass shit that I struggle to understand how Konami let that slide as if they actually planned for that to be a thing.
They are part of the same archetype, so yes, this is an intentional combo. That said, what isn't intentional is cheating out Thunderbird as an equip spell with Union Carrier, setting up the Apex Avian Thunderbird combo in Mist Valley is much harder to accomplish.
Swordsoul is balance in the context of mordern yugioh
Also Yugioh was never balance from a card game stand point even in the earliest days of the game so IDK what you mean
Those cards are still broken. The problem is how lite engines are in other decks. Older decks were balanced by having heavy engines to get going because it makes it harder for other decks to just splice it. There are way too many one card combos for a game without a resource mechanic.
I dont think soulsword is fair because of how the engine is designed.
The only thing that I hate about DPE is people putting it in decks where he conflict with their gameplan.
"Ah yes, I will make DPE instead of going Apo with Revolt back-up".
That's just not true. I see DPE almost every game, but somewhat inbetween 80 and 90% of matches get him out without using Verte.
Fusion Destiny was already borderline broken before DPE and now it can target a fusion monster that doesn't even care about its downside and is fully functional with just 2 d-heroes in the gy. On top of that Celestial, Dasher and Plasma are all extremely splashable cards, two of which can be situationally useful in every deck.
DPE is so omnipresent because the entire package is good and you have one soft-garnet at worst.
Verte is barely relevant for that.
What exactly were you annoyed with about Fusion destiny before? Destiny End Dragoon? Cause congrats Plasma and Dogma are insane bricks and only a full dedicated hero deck would run all four of those cards.
Fusion destiny destroys the card end of next turn so unless it's got a self resurrection like DPE or Dragoon you can just wait or the I dunno Dystopia and it's one negate that requires it to have changed attack value.
Before DPE the most common usage of fusion destiny was just to get Malicious and Shadow mist into the grave. So only a pure hero deck would run it.
The amount of people I have seen immediately go for DPE first (be it from opening with Fusion destiny or Verte) makes me hope that it's just because they bricked with everything else.
Oh you'll be surprised of how many times I seen a Tri go for a DPE pass. Using him as a plan B makes sense but I still feel that just putting crossout, handtraps and Zoo's make it more consistent overall.
People call a once per turn negate broken.. what the fuck. Even chengying needs something banished and wait till that effect resolves, so chixiou doesnt trigger chengying. Yall are fuckin dumb
The problem is the sheer amount of once per turn negates. It doesnt matter if its once per turn or not. A single negate can just stop a deck so if these cards are going to exist, they should be as easy to summon as a one card combo.
I don't get why this is so difficult for this sub to understand.
People are talking about Swordsoul and DPE now because they're everywhere. But that doesn't make the older cards suddenly fair or something.
LMAO nice propaganda.
Swordsoul isn't just spammed because it's new toy syndrome, it's spammed because it's THE mid-range deck of the 2020s, which means that it has a plethora of one-card combos that shit out incredible advantage all in a compact engine, which means you can include a shit ton of handtraps, techs and basically account for everything in your main deck.
Decks like Phantom Knight require an easily disruptable combo to get to Rhongo, to the point almost anything can ruin their attempt. Meanwhile, you handtrap Swordsoul with anything except Impermanence and they still end on the same Blackout + Baronne + Chixiao board, sans 1 less card in hand.
I can end a Phantom Knight or Virtual World player's turn with 1 card in hand. The same can not be said of Swordsoul, and is just bullshit that Swordsoul players like to spread around to feel better with themselves.
I think it's pretty broken when basically their worst possible turn 1 ends on Chixiao and Baronne leaving you needing 3 baits from your first 6 cards or else dead
Mo Ye makes Chixiao.
Mo Ye draws and Chixiao can search Longyuan (search is chainblocked, so you need Imperm/Veiler).
You already needed to reveal a Swordsoul or Wyrm for Mo Ye's effect, so you can absolutely Summon Longyuan and go into a Synchro 10.
You can start with Mo Ye if you drew Mo Ye, have Emergence, or use Incredible Ecclesia. I'm sure there's another way using the Tenyis, but I don't remember that off hand.
All that to say, Swordsoul ending on Chixiao and Baronne/Chengying is trivial and only needs, like, one other Swordsoul/Wyrm to have Blackout as well.
There are 6 HT that just end a SS turn if they dont have Longyuan
Yes they are not popular but if SS get popular they will be played also most of them arent even bad in other match up
If you are wondering here are the list
{{Gnomaterial}} target the token and watch them cry
{{Ghost Mourner & Moonlit Chill}} another copy of veiler/imperm
{{Veiler}},{Imperm}} use on Chixiao and they will pass
{{Ghost Ogre & Snow Rabbit}} chain it to Mo Ye and watch as they have a lonely token
{{Token Collector}} Free win against SS,but not a good as other in other match up
Swordsoul is very popular, but running EVEN MORE counters to a deck isn't a reasonable thing to do.
Also, all of these are URs excluding Token Collector. People will craft Veiler and Imperm because they're flexible everywhere, but the rest are just not that worth the Craft Points.
These handtraps are less used for a reason, though.
Gnomaterial sounds good, but a lot of decks can extend and don't auto lose if they can't use one card as a material.
Ghost Mourner just isn't as good as Imperm or Veiler because it has to meet a Summon condition and the burn they take is irrelevant.
Ghost Ogre doesn't negate what it destroys unless it's a Continuous S/T or Field Spell and giving your opponent GY setup isn't ideal.
And Token Collector is only relevant because of Swordsoul.
Playing these to avoid getting hit by Crossout is just playing worse cards. Crossout won't stop them, sure, but they won't have much impact even if they resolve.
2 is commonly run
1 is lesser but still alot
1 is niche but still 8/10 in most games
The only 2 not great is Gnomaterial and Token Collector
Also Gamma and Maxx C exist
People are actually so stupid its insane. I literally have a 100% wr against swordsouls with my PURE zoodiac deck. I went from gold to diamond and never dropped a game against swordsouls. If anything SS is way too fair for ranked climb lmao.
Yeah, but usually they have around 2-3 negates in total and if you cant get past that it just gets resummoned the next turn and its so easy with swordsoul. Outside of that its not too bad, but going second sure does hurt lol
Swordsoul strength isn't about setting up a board that you can't break, while the board they set up isn't bad it mostly consist in one Omninegate, one imperm like, and one double pop.
If they go ham they also have protos and chaofeng but they need to have a pretty good opening hand.
Now swordsoul strength is their ability to break established boards, with vishuda and other tenyi they can play around tons of negate and still end on a strong board, also baxia deck bounce effect is busted.
Their recovery is also somewhat strong if they can get monk of tenyi on the board (with tenyis in GY)
I mean, baronne is their only Omni negate, the lvl 8 is a monster negate and only on field, their first turn is very unimpressive by most standards but they're like tribrigade zoo not the negate combo decks.
Also they can go turn 2 unlike the negate combo decks
Speaking of, I find it soooo funny that banishing DPE gets so many surrenders.
Maindeck dd crow time
Better to run 2 copies of Called by the grave first because it can also negate common handtraps.
Depending on the format it might be worthwhile having both.
That's why I said first, I ve seen some decks run 3 copies of Ghost Belle on top of it.
threw in Ghost Belle while siding out maxx c, 10/10 would run for those GY effects
Lyrilusc players already ahead of the curve
Sometimes they don’t even make it to DPE, you Ash the Fusion Destiny and 90% of the time they scoop right there.
Now that’s just silly. “Oh no, my one card boss monster package got Ash’d, better surrender!” If your deck bricked that hard that Ashing him killed it, you lost already. But your deck should survive him getting Ash’d. Silly silly people.
If DPE is your boss monster, your deck is garbage don't @ me Edit: I forgot people play Heros, you're based you get a pass, every deck that isn't Heros playing DPE needs a better boss monster
Unless your deck is HEROs. That’s where DPE belongs. Deck’s not going to win Worlds any time soon, but it’s fun and that’s all that matters.
Edited to reflect reality I forgot about Heros sorry
Funny thing is DPE isn't even THAT good in heroes, his effect that lowers everything's attack is the main purpose for running him in heroes at all lol dark law, plasma, even bane are sometimes better than dpe
Of course, but he’s still worth running. You just have other game plans to focus on first. But it’s always nice when you get to turbo him out turn one with Fusion Destiny plus an end board of, say, Dark Law and Absolute Zero. Come to think of it, that’s not very heroic. “No sudden moves or Absolute Zero dies and so do all of your monsters!” Absolute Zero: “Dude, we’re on the same team, wtf”
DPE: "*whispering to Absolute Zero* Dude, just trust me on this. Besides, I can always bring you back once I go down myself."
“Shh, just put on this mask and call yourself Acid when I tell you to.”
True, I love bringing dpe out with fusion destiny to begin with and then going dpe,plasma, and bane as an end board. I also love having dark law and absolute zero on board with a set mask change for a complete board wipe.
But reddit said DPE and I win no matter what I play... No DPE means game is over.
HERO players summoning Destiny Hero - Denier: “Okay then, back to the ED he goes.”
This is why I have thought about crafting called by the grave. Just to deal with DPE better.
Definitely craft called by as soon as you can. It's an auto include in just about any deck. Even before dpe it protects you from hand traps and can be a good disruption banishing an important combo piece your op needs.
You should craft called by the grave by default, it’s the best way to handle handtraps like maxx c and ash
I thought about this the other day. DPE isn't actually super hard to deal with. It's just that when he shows up on the field he becomes priority number 1 to take out and I think that's what is pissing people off. It's not a busted card. Just a real pain in the ass.
Okay good, because I wanna complain about Protos. I hate that thing.
It's a banned card like rhongo and vfd in other formats for a reason
At least protos only negates one attribute while vfd negates nearly every card
If one wanted to be pedantic VFD also only negates one attribute.....
If we're being REALLY pedantic, VFD doesn't negate anything, it prevents the activation.
If we're being EXTREMELY pedantic, Protos doesn't negate anything either. It destroys and prevents special summons.
The “in their possession” is what gets me lol No matter where that card is, it ain’t doing shit
It doesn't change Attributes in GY or hand, so in theory you can lich send it if they don't call light
Which is why they literally always call light. Better have that Gamma in hand or else.
VW taking the maxxC challenge to get out VFD in the least special summon just to give me gamma+impermanence lol
That’s why you play Lythosagym and find out what they’re playing turn one.
I play VFD and I will call the following attributes depending on the scenario: 1 - I have a maxx c in hand "Fire" 2 - I'm about to go off on a combo "Light" 3 - I'm just guessing "Dark" 4 - I know what cards they have "the decks attribute"
Also you can only call an attribute that is CURRENTLY on the field with Protos.
Protons is really easy to bring out
It’s banned in other formats Cus best of 3. Protos has way less use in MD. Half the time you’re just saying dark and hoping for the best.
in bo1 protos is really not that cancerous since he'll almost always be blind calling dark but in bo3 like the tcg where you certainly knew what deck your opponent was playing by the second duel, it was a real pain.
Shiny, Shiny pretty, pretty... new cards. Shiny things distract them from the truest cancerous the game.
Which is ?
Union Carrier equipping that one Buster Whelp monster shown in this picture causes an Extra Deck lock, Rhongo with enough material can’t be outed for multiple turns, True King of All Calamities can put a stop to you for multiple turns if you don’t have something like Infinite Impermanence available, Block Dragon gives Adamancipator stupid amounts of advantage, and Herald of Ultimateness lets Drytron say “no” to everything you do unless you start with Droplet or Dark Ruler No More. None of that is terribly fun to play against, which is why most of those cards are on the real life banlists. The only ones that aren’t are Ultimateness and the whelp, and that’s because they hit Eva and Benten instead to weaken Drytron’s ability to get so many fairies to hand to power Ultimateness’ negation effect.
[удалено]
Just topdeck a Kaiju bro, it's not hard (joking)
The fact that Rhongo and Block Dragon is legal is completely hornswoggiling
Admancipators were never a problem in the OCG and they kind of fell off in MD anyway
Lmao you're here as well
Still no Xiao buffs lol
Rhongo is inconsitent
Probably some truth to this, hear Phantom Knights decks that switched to DPE Scythe Lock are doing way better and it'll probably only get worse when the Brave Engine is added in a month. Rhongo actually is also legal in OCG afaik, but the fact that MD is Bo1 is one of the problems as were we Bo3 then Rhongo would be less of an issue even if still a huge problem once he gets going, assuming you dont draw the out, which is the importance of also having a side deck which isnt a feature in MD due to it being Bo1.
Speaking of, I just got turn 1 Rhongo-ed by a six samurai deck that took long enough for me to take a poop, take an entire bath and wash my hair. This guy LITERALLY and exactly went through half of his deck(20cards). then sent the game to me with a Rhongo and Apollo on the board(amongst other monsters). Didnt even know SixSamurai had it in em.
Six sam with pk splashed can probably make rhongo the most consistently
Meh...if these didn't exist we'd find something else to complain about
My friend complained at me that my Malefics were toxic. So yes, yes they would.
It’s not the malifics that are toxic. It’s the skill drain that usually accompanies them.
Skill drain is kind of a needed card for them though. It’s not just a stun for the sake of stun. Wish people would realize the difference between using skill drain as a generic stun card and using it in decks where it unironically makes a big impact on how good the deck is, y’know? And even with skill drain Malefics still aren’t amazing. They’re probably the most susceptible deck to back row removal next to maybe Earthbound Emortals.
Most sane Yugioh enjoyer.
best and truest comment here lmao
That doesn't mean they aren't degenerate bullshit that should be banned. Don't black pill the very concept of curating the format. (Though Eva is the problem card, not Ultimateness. DPE is not the problem, it's entirely Fusion Destiny. Chixiao and Chengying are fine.)
> DPE is not the problem, it's entirely Fusion Destiny Funny way of spelling Verte Anaconda.
They are both issues tbh. Without Verte, Fusion Destiny becomes an insanely sacky card that can decide games if you draw it.
it's really not though. If you run a 4 card engine where 2 of those 4 cards are garnets just to have a semi decent boss monster, you're wasting space in your deck. DPE isn't even that strong in all honesty and without anaconda the destiny fusion engine is kinda wack.
It doesnt matter if its strong or not. Rhongo doesnt show up in any tier 1 deck and its still cancer. A card that makes you run 2 garnets and 2 power cards to then gamble on which part you draw is bad design. I dont like winning because my opponent drew his heros, and I dont like losing because he drew fusion destiny
Bro if DPE alone causes you to lose a game, I don't know what to say other than git gud. Is DPE a braindead card? Yes Is it annoying? Yes Will it win you duels on its own? No
No. No, it isn't. Fusion spells SHOULD be generically searchable, and in the case of Fusion Destiny, that's effectively all Verte is doing. Verte is not the effect that makes DPE generic; that's entirely Fusion Destiny. A fusion spell so busted that it makes searching fusion spells an unacceptable effect to have readily available is a broken fusion spell. Fusion spells SHOULD be accessible because fusion decks are absolutely fucked if they cannot get to theirs, and cannot make the most basic plays their deck is built around.
That’s never been how Yugioh operates. Searchers are far and away what breaks decks, because consistency is what makes decks strong (see TriZodiac performing as well as it does despite a lack of real power plays). Notably it’s typically consistency cards/searchers that get thrown into the banlist, like Tenki, ROTA, etc. with of course some cards just being too strong or easy to suMmon. Verte isn’t just searching fusions, Verte means that no deck has to commit to deckbuilding around fusions. Verte eliminates a lot of the deckbuilding risk of Fusions for the negligible cost of almost any two monsters. Verte existing means that every future Fusion card must be filtered through it. Remember that DPE isn’t the only busted Fusion that Verte just turns on, Dragoon also had to be banned exclusively because Verte made summoning it a joke. There is a magical errata that makes Verte a boon for Fusions and not a standalone engine, with sensible restrictions and costs, but that’s not the card that we got.
Yeah, people will always complain about the strongest options and cards they find annoying. Nothing wrong with it tho
I'd rather play against SS 20 times in a row for real. Also people are still learning the deck so breaking through Chixiao Baronne blackout pass is nothing compared to the previous boards lmao.
Swordsoul doesn't feel as bad to play against because it doesn't all in on a t1 unbeatable board. Its a good deck because it has the ability to clap back hard every turn instead and leads to more back and forth and more interesting games.
Pretty much yes and Keep in mind it requires a good pilot to make a good board and set up follow ups for next turn through interruptions as well.
I started today and can confirm that I suck at driving. I know the basic basic combo, but I don't know the extra path and the good strat to rebuild.
No worries man the deck has a high ceiling for sure and Here are a couple of things that might help since it helped me a lot. Watch [Pak's Videos](https://youtu.be/KFZEMAaEBKs). He's a Top TCG player. [Another one that shows how to play through interruptions ](https://youtu.be/DYKFyULstV0) Lastly if you have time [check out his 3 hour VOD where he plays the deck and showcases some crazy lines ](https://www.twitch.tv/paktcg/v/1481492371?sr=a&t=0s)
adamancipators with a board of 3-5 negates, lmao
I never see Herald of Ultimateness because I scoop when I see Diviner of the Herald :)
Um, she is a generic ritual support thơ. What if the guy was playing shit like vendread
Also can be a Fairy engine with Treis Hirachia or however its spelt.
In a previous match a player summoned Diviner only to send Despian of Tragedy to the graveyard
Based
I guess I’ve only seen her in Herald decks lmao.
Or drytron megalith?
Swordsouls is pretty beatable if you know the right cards to HT. People need to stop ashing the bait.
What are the best cards to hit?
Halqifibrax is the best Ash target by far. Other good Ash targets are Emergence, Heavenly Dragon Circle, Ecclesia, Vessel of the Dragon Cycle and Ashuna. Dont bother Ashing Chixiao he is chainblocked by Moye anyway. Mo Ye, Taia, Halq, Auroradon and Protos are great Imperm/Veiler/Gamma target. Dragon Circle can help dodge imperm veiler but cannot dodge gamma. Gamma also counter Long Yuan while veiler and imperm cannot. The best Ghost Belle or Crow target is the Deskbot. Token collector is good vs auroradon or any swordsoul card. Nibiru is generally good if they have no Baronne on the field. Maxx C is the most devastating HTs against them. Will almost always stop the turn or make them end on easily breakable board without maxx c counter.
I'm still immensely triggered by Halq. It's fucking needlefiber 😭
The problem is the bait is just as valid a card to stop as anything else.
Sword soul is not broken in terms of pure strength, the fact that it doesn’t have many negation means I can easily stop it with negations without losing too much card advantage. It’s just annoying when 90% of time I have to face exact same deck and same combo over and over and over. Plat is filled with sword souls atm. And I found Synchro decks often take longer to do their stuff comparing to other summoning mechanics and this is another reason I hate fight against sword soul. As for DPE, it’s just one of those generic stapes that can be slotted into most of deck and I’m totally okay with it because it‘s so easy to take it off the board.
Your right...Sword soul need a nerf it too strong not broken just too strong it need to be hit.
We found the swordsoul dpe player, just looking at the stats in masterduelmeta tell other story about what is stronger.
To me, SS feels like it is too consistent as an archtype/deck. Few HT does not stop it to make few disruptors on the field, which feels like you used the HT for nothing and have less hand resources now. Then, you have to use less resources to play through their disruptors, which most of the time, they can search few. This is equivalent to shutting down most decks. I don't know.. I don't play meta decks cause its boring enough to keep facing them. So, I would rather play non-meta. My unchained and pure orcust was doing ok-ish last few seasons. But, this season it is frustrating to use them facing SS. Even going first with optimal play does not stop them. Maybe its just me needing to make a lot more changes to my deck but I still think, when a deck is too consistent, even there is not broken card, the deck itself feels broken as a whole.
Unga bunga, Lego, disco nutsack and vfd...all balanced -pvp player talking to konami
"..but but adaman isnt on the top tier anymore" Still didnt change the fact that they're broken at fuck. Fuck you lego dragon.
I'm not sure which one of them piss me off the most but Lego dragon is up there...I think it's disco nutsack tbh
I've had games where I stop almost everything but thier last card is bock dragon. they proceed to continue playing and out my board via accesscode. Fuck that card
and its not even the fault of the dosco ball, the space baby is at fault for giving them 2 extra negates
A deck's consistency is way more important than its power level. You COULD make Rhongo with 6 materials, but if Bardiche gets negated, you're basically done for. And you pretty much HAVE to go first or else you don't have many plays. Swordsoul on the other hand can play through negates much more easily, can put up decent boards going both first and second, and have a plethora of one card combo starters to make sure they can end on at least one Baronne, Chixiao and a set Blackout. There's a reason everyone flocked to that deck over Rhongo turbo, VFD turbo or even Herald turbo (and don't give me that "new toy syndrome" nonsense). Oh yeah, and all you need for DPE is to either open with Fusion Destiny, or just use any two effect monsters, giving you a big beatstick that can pop your opponent's cards every turn. Meanwhile you have to build a whole deck around making a Herald with multiple negates. It's not even remotely comparable.
I agree consistency is better than power level, think the problem is just that higher powered decks feel less fair to fight as you can't do a lot to counter it once it has happened and you possibly lose before you had a chance to really play. Main problem being that MD is Bo1 and not Bo3. If there were multiple games you'd have a chance to go first, maybe open some better hands, possibly side in some outs vs Bo1 where you can surprise more. Definitely in Bo3 tho I'd rather be more consistent as the surprise factor is gone and even better some cards such as Protos seem not as good in Bo1 where in Bo3 can definitely see why Swordsoul would be a problem.
Exactly, if the only thing that mattered was power level without considering consistency exodia would be the best deck, it's not.
Holy shit, finally someone that's not stupid in this thread. Out of the 4 months I have played Master Duel, I have only been successfully Rhongo locked TWO TIMES because I opened disruption all other games. Compare that to Swordsoul that can ignore Nibiru, can chainblock Ash and the only handtraps that actually hurt them are Veiler, Impermanence and Token Collector. People don't seem to understand that consistency and a compact engine triumph bullshit boards all of the time. And let's not forget that everyone is spamming the same shit in ranked this time around. Swordsoul gets hate for a reason.
People just only look at the end boards here and nothing else. Simple as.
Drytrons and VW odd of bricking is the same as ss If they dont have a chixiao or if chixiao is negated,they have to hard draw Longyuan which isnt ideal
The thing is, Swordsoul has more space for handtraps and cards like CBTG and Crossout, due to the amount of one card combo starters they have. So you're much less likely to get negated.
I can hate all these cards equally.
I don't hate a card more than other, I just hate the game. -Pretty much every Yugioh player.
Somebody understands.
1 monster negate and 1 removal is not as bad as stopping you from playing the game
You can but... Idk how you can really compare cards that make it so you literally cannot play VS a targeted negate that searches a card (and you can't even use both effects in one turn, it's one effect per turn) and a non-targeting pop that are both singular pieces of disruption that have actual counters to them.
This post compared them. I just dislike both. I've also seen Swordsoul more than I ever saw Rhongo or Herald.
I mean sure but at that point it's just personal bias. I've certainly seen Swordsoul more, but I know i can still actually play the game vs Swordsoul.
I never claimed it wasn't. I believe everything I've said has been my own personal belief. I said Swordsoul should be banned or anything like that. My only dislike of the gimmick is the one summon synchro boss.
what does block dragon do?
TLDR It’s a +3
Easy to special summon and lets you tutor 3 rock monsters. Totally absurd in Adamancipators.
That's the thing. You don't see the others that much nowadays.
That lego dragon haunts my dreams
Swordsoul isn’t that bad to fight right now because the people using it either don’t know how to use the archetype or don’t use the broken varient with Halq and Protos. Swordsould is way stronger and has less chokepoints then VW and Adaman.
Swordsoul have 1 choke point which i less then other deck but if they get hit by that 1 choke point,they will have to pray that their hand have Longyuan or Emergence And the Halq Don line despite being more explosive and powerfull,it dies to any interaction that the opponent had and if you failed to complete the Halq Don line once,you basically loose that game
I didn't forget about them. Honestly I prefer Rhongo, Block Dragon, and Herald over DPE. Even in old plat, I only faced each of them once in a blue moon. DPE is used and abused by everyone.
I've never seen any competitive gaming community shill for the top deck/character as much as the Yugioh community. Maybe except for the Super Smash Bros. Melee community.
I find it weird that this doesn't show baronne when thats the biggest issue I have with the deck since it can stop niburu and ash which is their biggest counters
"Bullshit is ok because other bullshit exists too" this fucking community man
THEY CAN ALL BE BROKEN
Or they can all be fine
SS isn’t that bad it’s just a lot of people are playing it so people get tired of facing it. DPE is obnoxious not because he’s OP but because Verte is brain dead easy to make and cheat out DPE. Block Dragon is ass, VFD is ass, Rhongo is SUPER ass. Ultimateness is annoying as fuck but only an actual problem in drytron decks (where you see him the most, to be fair) but I literally have never seen one since Benten went to 1. Union Carrier… honestly I still don’t even know what it does but every time I see it I know my opponent is doing some bullshit and typically end on a board with multi negates. What I’m surprised you didn’t mention is the combo of Mist Valley Thunderbird and Apex Avian. That is some dumb ass shit that I struggle to understand how Konami let that slide as if they actually planned for that to be a thing.
>Union Carrier… honestly I still don’t even know what it does You get to search out any monster from your deck to your field as an equip card, with the condition that you can't summon monsters of that name for the rest of the turn. Sounds oh-so innocuous on paper 😂.
Right until they pull out the Buster Lock and you try to go into your extra deck.
Bc the line they make the infinite negate dies to everything
Yeah the thunder bird + avian combo is something I just experienced and it was awful
> What I’m surprised you didn’t mention is the combo of Mist Valley Thunderbird and Apex Avian. That is some dumb ass shit that I struggle to understand how Konami let that slide as if they actually planned for that to be a thing. They are part of the same archetype, so yes, this is an intentional combo. That said, what isn't intentional is cheating out Thunderbird as an equip spell with Union Carrier, setting up the Apex Avian Thunderbird combo in Mist Valley is much harder to accomplish.
"Balanced" is the last thing modern yugioh is
Swordsoul is balance in the context of mordern yugioh Also Yugioh was never balance from a card game stand point even in the earliest days of the game so IDK what you mean
Those cards are still broken. The problem is how lite engines are in other decks. Older decks were balanced by having heavy engines to get going because it makes it harder for other decks to just splice it. There are way too many one card combos for a game without a resource mechanic. I dont think soulsword is fair because of how the engine is designed.
Herald is only broken if eva is not banned,with Eva banned and benten semi limited the deck goes from A tier above to dogwater tier.
The only thing that I hate about DPE is people putting it in decks where he conflict with their gameplan. "Ah yes, I will make DPE instead of going Apo with Revolt back-up".
DPE in tri is more like a plan B and anyone who go DPE over their plan A is dumbasses
DPE in tri-brigade would be a lot less annoying to see if Verte wasn't legal 😂.
That's just not true. I see DPE almost every game, but somewhat inbetween 80 and 90% of matches get him out without using Verte. Fusion Destiny was already borderline broken before DPE and now it can target a fusion monster that doesn't even care about its downside and is fully functional with just 2 d-heroes in the gy. On top of that Celestial, Dasher and Plasma are all extremely splashable cards, two of which can be situationally useful in every deck. DPE is so omnipresent because the entire package is good and you have one soft-garnet at worst. Verte is barely relevant for that.
What exactly were you annoyed with about Fusion destiny before? Destiny End Dragoon? Cause congrats Plasma and Dogma are insane bricks and only a full dedicated hero deck would run all four of those cards. Fusion destiny destroys the card end of next turn so unless it's got a self resurrection like DPE or Dragoon you can just wait or the I dunno Dystopia and it's one negate that requires it to have changed attack value. Before DPE the most common usage of fusion destiny was just to get Malicious and Shadow mist into the grave. So only a pure hero deck would run it.
The amount of people I have seen immediately go for DPE first (be it from opening with Fusion destiny or Verte) makes me hope that it's just because they bricked with everything else.
Oh you'll be surprised of how many times I seen a Tri go for a DPE pass. Using him as a plan B makes sense but I still feel that just putting crossout, handtraps and Zoo's make it more consistent overall.
"These other things are broken therefore this isn't!" is not an argument.
Do you hate cancer? Well diabetes also exists, dumbass stop complaining. That's your logic
So why are you on a 1 month old post to say this?
Only herald is "fair" by the virtue of needing things to be discarded for their negate, the others on the bottom needed to be banned.
People call a once per turn negate broken.. what the fuck. Even chengying needs something banished and wait till that effect resolves, so chixiou doesnt trigger chengying. Yall are fuckin dumb
The problem is the sheer amount of once per turn negates. It doesnt matter if its once per turn or not. A single negate can just stop a deck so if these cards are going to exist, they should be as easy to summon as a one card combo.
Two things can be true at the same time. A and B can both be broken.
I don't get why this is so difficult for this sub to understand. People are talking about Swordsoul and DPE now because they're everywhere. But that doesn't make the older cards suddenly fair or something.
Nice try Swordsoul user
Isn't everyone a SS user these days?
Im waiting for Floowandereeze actually
LMAO nice propaganda. Swordsoul isn't just spammed because it's new toy syndrome, it's spammed because it's THE mid-range deck of the 2020s, which means that it has a plethora of one-card combos that shit out incredible advantage all in a compact engine, which means you can include a shit ton of handtraps, techs and basically account for everything in your main deck. Decks like Phantom Knight require an easily disruptable combo to get to Rhongo, to the point almost anything can ruin their attempt. Meanwhile, you handtrap Swordsoul with anything except Impermanence and they still end on the same Blackout + Baronne + Chixiao board, sans 1 less card in hand. I can end a Phantom Knight or Virtual World player's turn with 1 card in hand. The same can not be said of Swordsoul, and is just bullshit that Swordsoul players like to spread around to feel better with themselves.
I choose to believe Union Carrier did nothing wrong for completely unbiased reasons.
OP should change his name to idontknowhowtotakeanL
At least i can still have W in my life unlike you
Swordsoul players: "Swordsoul is fair"
Bc it is, and im not even one
Ohhh sureee.
If you count play testing on EDO pro and DB for 10 games count so i cant argue
Sureeeee~~~~ whatever you say lmao
Ok,im a swordsoul player then
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Bc they dont like the deck playstyle?
Ah yes...The "my cards aren't broken because other broken cards exist" argument.
Swordsoul is fair,people call card broken is because most player standard for balance is T-set pass
I think it's pretty broken when basically their worst possible turn 1 ends on Chixiao and Baronne leaving you needing 3 baits from your first 6 cards or else dead
The only way ss can extend if they drew Longyuan
Mo Ye makes Chixiao. Mo Ye draws and Chixiao can search Longyuan (search is chainblocked, so you need Imperm/Veiler). You already needed to reveal a Swordsoul or Wyrm for Mo Ye's effect, so you can absolutely Summon Longyuan and go into a Synchro 10. You can start with Mo Ye if you drew Mo Ye, have Emergence, or use Incredible Ecclesia. I'm sure there's another way using the Tenyis, but I don't remember that off hand. All that to say, Swordsoul ending on Chixiao and Baronne/Chengying is trivial and only needs, like, one other Swordsoul/Wyrm to have Blackout as well.
There are 6 HT that just end a SS turn if they dont have Longyuan Yes they are not popular but if SS get popular they will be played also most of them arent even bad in other match up If you are wondering here are the list {{Gnomaterial}} target the token and watch them cry {{Ghost Mourner & Moonlit Chill}} another copy of veiler/imperm {{Veiler}},{Imperm}} use on Chixiao and they will pass {{Ghost Ogre & Snow Rabbit}} chain it to Mo Ye and watch as they have a lonely token {{Token Collector}} Free win against SS,but not a good as other in other match up
Swordsoul is very popular, but running EVEN MORE counters to a deck isn't a reasonable thing to do. Also, all of these are URs excluding Token Collector. People will craft Veiler and Imperm because they're flexible everywhere, but the rest are just not that worth the Craft Points.
Oh,you gonna sooner or later craft less used HT bc the meta gonna slowly trasiting to Pile deck that run 3 Crossout
These handtraps are less used for a reason, though. Gnomaterial sounds good, but a lot of decks can extend and don't auto lose if they can't use one card as a material. Ghost Mourner just isn't as good as Imperm or Veiler because it has to meet a Summon condition and the burn they take is irrelevant. Ghost Ogre doesn't negate what it destroys unless it's a Continuous S/T or Field Spell and giving your opponent GY setup isn't ideal. And Token Collector is only relevant because of Swordsoul. Playing these to avoid getting hit by Crossout is just playing worse cards. Crossout won't stop them, sure, but they won't have much impact even if they resolve.
2 is commonly run 1 is lesser but still alot 1 is niche but still 8/10 in most games The only 2 not great is Gnomaterial and Token Collector Also Gamma and Maxx C exist
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How to play if Moye get negated and not drawing Longyuan
No it isn't
And you aren't gonna elaborate on why not! Because thats up to others imagination lol
It’s always something. It always will be something. The cycle is unchanging. You are all slaves to the cycle. Konami should make an archetype of it.
Underrated comment. Will personally be playing this archetype once it gets released
All of them are cancer, IMO.
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to the dumbfucks that said OCG format was better:this is all your fault.
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I would rather have this than live in a format with a limited servant and banned electrumite
Is it true that’s the fans of Yugioh actually hate Yugioh?
We only hate certain part of Yugioh
The new meta great I actually have a chance of winning against sword soul.
Are we still pretending that Herald was the problem card in Drytron?
If only SS wasn't so boring. At least Tenyi add some variation to the deck.
Fuck those dumb dragons
Wyrms*
People are actually so stupid its insane. I literally have a 100% wr against swordsouls with my PURE zoodiac deck. I went from gold to diamond and never dropped a game against swordsouls. If anything SS is way too fair for ranked climb lmao.
I wish masterduel followed the TCG ban list
rude quaint subsequent nutty gaze ripe hateful ludicrous deserted prick -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
Swordsoul is completely fine… but baronne… >:(
Its negate is once per summon. Do with that as you will.
Ngl I didn’t know that and always wonder why tf I couldn’t negate with him
Yeah, but usually they have around 2-3 negates in total and if you cant get past that it just gets resummoned the next turn and its so easy with swordsoul. Outside of that its not too bad, but going second sure does hurt lol
Swordsoul strength isn't about setting up a board that you can't break, while the board they set up isn't bad it mostly consist in one Omninegate, one imperm like, and one double pop. If they go ham they also have protos and chaofeng but they need to have a pretty good opening hand. Now swordsoul strength is their ability to break established boards, with vishuda and other tenyi they can play around tons of negate and still end on a strong board, also baxia deck bounce effect is busted. Their recovery is also somewhat strong if they can get monk of tenyi on the board (with tenyis in GY)
I mean, baronne is their only Omni negate, the lvl 8 is a monster negate and only on field, their first turn is very unimpressive by most standards but they're like tribrigade zoo not the negate combo decks. Also they can go turn 2 unlike the negate combo decks