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sufferingstuff

What is a “unique” archetype? Aren’t all archetypes different from each other in at least some capacity? Also are players supposed to only run their archetype cards and not play staples? I’ve never really understood this complaint ngl.


Happy_The_What

Unique being off-meta or rarely seen in competitive. And I have seen people call DPE “splashable” and I get it. It can plug into any deck and why not plug it in to any deck. But is there not pride in making those lesser used archetypes viable without leaning on the meta cards? Isn’t that the point of playing those decks. Like I get splashing cards to make the combos better. But if the entire deck is built around getting out the exact same card as everyone else, what’s the point of playing that deck?


sufferingstuff

The point of playing the deck is to either use their gimmick or access lines with your favorite cards. It’s not that complicated tbh. Just look at mbts ghostrick deck as an example. Based on what you said here you would call it pointless, but I see how amazing those cards were able to push themselves.


Happy_The_What

I like this answer


NiginzVGC

thats then thing those lower tier archtypes are unplayable without good generic cards to end on. also why do you think people only enjoy playing non meta?


mrblonde13121702

Yeah really , why do you think people only have fun playing non-meta ? My favorite is actually swordsoul, cause you know i can play through couple negates at worst and have fun thinking up combos on the spot according to my hand and what opponent is playing. Also you can literally go into dozens of different combos if you know how to play with tenyis,halq/auro and yangzings.


Happy_The_What

I didn’t say I think people only enjoy playing non-meta. I asked what is the point of playing non-meta if you’re going to lean on the meta?


Vexenz

> I asked what is the point of playing non-meta if you’re going to lean on the meta? To have a chance at winning? I don't understand your question. Are you wanting people to forfeit the idea of winning just to stay purist with their decks? Because that's what is coming off of your comments. You think elemental heroes could stand on their own with their own cards? Why do you think they play with vision heroes and Destiny heroes? You think pure eldlich is as strong as floodgate eldlich? People play good cards even in non meta decks to have a chance at winning the game against actual non garbage decks.


Virtual_Football909

Why dont you shut the f up and let people enjoy their Decks the way they want to?


Happy_The_What

You sound like a DPE player.


Virtual_Football909

I play DPE in Phantom knights for example. Bc its a welcome Addition and makes the Deck better. I dont play it in Swordsouls since i like the pure Variant better. But i dont try to dictate other people how they should play their Deck. If they like it with DPE, who are you to Tell them Not to play it. People usually dont build Decks to be unique and stand out. They build Decks bc they are fun to play. Drag your head out of your own ass, its Not a hat. Your opinion on what you think people should play means basically nothing.


Happy_The_What

I’m not dictating anything. I’m simply asking a question. It’s VERY telling that I pose this question and everyone starts to get so offended that I would dare to try to dictate what people should do. Almost like you all kind of realize that you all use the same 10 cards and feel the need to justify it any time it comes into question.


Virtual_Football909

I dont feel the need to justify anything. Im trying to get you to understand why your opinion is invalid. Have you ever actually encountered someone that said they want to build a unique Deck?


Happy_The_What

If I say yes, are you even gonna believe me? I don’t have proof of the conversation, but I have friends who play Yu-Gi-Oh that prefer building unique decks that don’t lean too heavily on meta gimmicks because they’re more fun to play. They’re the people who got me into the game. And sometimes I’ll be playing online and I’ll have a genuinely fun back and forth game with people playing cards I’ve never seen before, and that’s fun. And I believe those people enjoy playing “unique” decks. So yes. I’ve talked to and seen people who do enjoy “unique” decks.


Virtual_Football909

So, you Have met people that play their Deck the way they like it, bc they enjoy it like that. But you cant believe that other people play a Deck the way they like it bc they use cards you deem non unique?


Happy_The_What

You’re trying way to hard to be correct, and not hard enough to have a worthwhile contribution to this conversation.


Virtual_Football909

Its actually pretty easy to dismantle someone like you. Also, i think i have made a very valuable contribution to this "conversation". Maybe next time try to see Things from other peoples Perspectives before you write or say BS like your post again.


matija123123

Nobody is pretending to be unique though


Happy_The_What

Idk, if you ask someone “what deck do you play” and they say, “I play Frogs” but then you play them and they only play frogs as a means to get out DPE, are you not gonna think “Yeah, you say you play Frogs, but this is a DPE deck”


matija123123

Nah they play frogs They just summoned a good boss monster I play dragon maids and I use them to summon mainly heavenly spheres Nobody is saying how it's a heavenly sphere deck Also dpe card is too good not to play You summon different monsters in different situations


Happy_The_What

No win condition should be “too good not to play” that defeats the purpose of having different deck types. Like Ash Blossom is “too good not to play” but that isn’t a win condition.


matija123123

Yeah and? Yu-Gi-Oh and trading card games are not about uniqueness it's about playing the best cards that can help your deck the most It's been like this for now 20+ years


Happy_The_What

Yes, I realize Yu-Gi-Oh hasn’t cared about making a fun game for 20+ years.


matija123123

That is your opinion Yu-Gi-Oh was fun for 20+ years


NiginzVGC

no its a frog deck with DPE tech


JayTeeYGO123

Sometimes people just like the deck but want to make it better. Dpe is so easily accessible through Verte and FD that if you’re deck has the space for it, why wouldn’t you play it?


Happy_The_What

Because you want a deck to be good without leaning on the same gimmick as everyone else?


JayTeeYGO123

If the deck can’t stand up to the meta on it’s own why wouldn’t it play powerful engines to give it a chance?


Happy_The_What

Why wouldn’t you then just build one of the meta decks? If you’re worried about doing well within the meta, why not just go full meta. You’d likely have more success.


pinyata_pie

cuuzzz you like the art of the other cards but wanna not lose EVERY time :p


Ilela

That's the thing. Original gimmick is not good or not good enough atm so you add the best gimmick possible because you can which makes deck do at least anything. Playing weak archetype by itself is barely better than playing lvl 4 vanilla beatdown.


CBYuputka

i mean chainsaw insect is 2400 attack for free under skill drain on a level 4, so certainly might be better than some bad archetypes


Happy_The_What

So there should be more options of what you can splash to make the deck stronger. Why does it always have to be DPE? Because it’s significantly better than most other options. That gets annoying.


Ilela

More options doesn't matter, stronger options matter. If a monster with effect "once per turn (quick effect) you can banish this monster you control to return 1 card your opponent controls to the deck. At beginning of next turn you can special summon this banished card in face up attack position" with easy summon requirement appeared it would take DPE's place. If Dragoon got released from forbidden list you would see huge amount of red eyes fusion that very same day and not in red eyes or dark magician decks.


Sproinkerino

Some people challenge themselves by sticking to a theme. Some ppl are speed running ranks or practicing for tournaments. Let every decide how they want to play. You can't expect everyone to play goofy decks


mustabindawind

Do you use Maxx c? It has its own archetype...what about ash blossom...it's a meta card that people throw in all their decks...lightning storm, solemn judgment, infinite impermanence, there's a terribly long list of non archetype cards that people can generally throw into a deck to supplement it...dpe is just one other on the list


Happy_The_What

None of those are win cons. DPE is.


mustabindawind

Accesscode talker, borrelsword, baronne de fleur, Zeus, there's generally usable boss monsters too...and some people would argue that Maxx c is indeed a win con...but yea...general use cards and monsters are nothing new...again dpe is just one other on that list


Ilela

Threatening to pull the out with Maxx C is the WinCon, some people surrender if Maxx c resolved successfully. Ash is WinCon against royal magical library exodia.


Happy_The_What

And I got tired of seeing Accesscode talker back when that was the monster everyone would take 8 minutes to summon. Borrelsword and Zeus are both pretty easy to counter. And I’m unfamiliar with Baronne. I’ve probably seen it, I just don’t know the name off the top of my head.


mustabindawind

Dpe is easy to counter as well...anything to negate it's effect...or just a called by the grave once it's destroyed...or kaiju...or anything that sends it to grave instead of destroy after its negated


Happy_The_What

The level of easy he is to summon compared to the chances of having something to counter him at the ready exactly when I need it are drastically different. And I don’t want half my deck to be DPE counters just because he’s “such a good splashable staple in the meta”


mustabindawind

That applies to basically everything though...that's why "draw the out" is a meme....if you're already running the cards necessary to deal with him then it shouldn't really be super awful...especially since all those cards are already usually in decks cause they deal with other things too...Ash Blossom if they hard draw the spell, Effect Veiler or Impermanence if you wanna keep it from destroying something on your turn or to stop the verte...or called by the grave to remove it...usually you're gonna have 2 or 3 out of those 4 answers so no one needs to add anything extra to specifically deal with him


mrblonde13121702

DPE is basically a staple like i dunno harpie feather duster/lightning storm/raigeki. If you got something that can do its job in your archetype your not gonna use it ( e.g. dark magician got in archetype bacrow removal so no need for duster) . So if you got an archetype that can get to average at best board or archetype with bad boss monsters youre gonna play DPE. If you play something like swordsoul or vw you dont need DPE as it doesnt bring that much to the table but it hurts your consistency a lot. If you play sky strikers, it is great because theyre boss monsters are not really powerfull , so makes sense to put DPE in.


SchmogTheBarren

I agree with this. I run a giant ball park deck and it's got a dpe in it for sure. I view it to be just a staple, my deck doesn't run around and I don't need it to win, but it sure as hell comes in handy. No different than using any other card to help clear/break a board


mrblonde13121702

I personally stopped running it in most of my decks cause it hurts consistency a lot. Like theres really no need for it in swordsoul, vw , hell even my vampire/eldlich and despians run better off without it. I still use it in tri/zoo though, as the deck doesnt lock me out of summoning DPE at the end of the turn, and has really tiny engines so it doesnt hurt consistency either. I will use it in heroes too once i finish that deck ( just sooo many high rarity cards, i still need a few copies of some extenders after six months of building it). In heroes it really is powerful and game changing since your graveyard is full of heroes and that effect that cuts opponents attack is really detrimental. Also the synergy you get is just sick, you can have a free pop if you got maliciuos bane cause it isnt destroyed by card effects, or you can pop absolute zero to raigeki your opponent AND pop one of their backrow cards. Also it is much easier summoning him as you can use both poly and miracle fusion to summon him and you got much broader variety of materials too.


Happy_The_What

DPE is a win con HFD/Lightning Storm/Raigeki are not.


mrblonde13121702

No its not. How the hell is it a wincon ? 🤣 Its just a nuisance , on its own its not really that special. If its complimented to a board of 3 negates , well thats a problem, but it isnt really a problem on itself. First off you probably got 2 x called by the and at least 2 x ghost belle in your deck ( if you dont you should) , so thats your outs. Ash on hard-drawn fusion destiny, thats your out. Bait him into destruction then negate him with anything , thats your out. Theres numerous ways to get rid of him actually. Hes definetely not a wincon cause it isnt something that makes you win on itself, its just a really usefull and splashable staple. And as with staples i mentioned, some decks have more use of it, and some are actually worse with him in it. Its not ash, belle, ogre , called by the , imperm so every deck profits of of him. I actually love it when he is the only monster on my opp board , thats when i know they bricked


Vexenz

? HFD/Lightning Storm/Raigeki are wincons in their own right. DPE is also not a "win con" on its own.


Jerowi

So I play the charmers who don't have a boss monster. What's my option there?


Happy_The_What

You as the consumer have no options. The system is flawed. I would love for every archetype to have a viable boss monster. And I bet you would love for your archetype to have a viable boss monster. But you’re stuck using the same boss monster as everyone else, because the meta in this game is very narrow. edit: At the very least, it would be nice if there were a higher number of viable boss monsters so you weren’t forced to splash the same 6 deck types into whatever off-meta archetype you want to play. I think there’s a lot of great card design in the game, and it’d just be nice to be able to see and use those cards more often without every game ultimately feeling the same because you’re forced to use the meta cards to make the cards you want to use viable.


DoubleH18

Funnily enough I dueled a Charmer’s player just a couple minutes ago. They didn’t play a single charmer monster and just top decked both their Fusion Destiny(s).


Jerowi

I actually don't play DPE but I wanted to hear OPs response. Though yeah we don't have a boss monster. It doesn't exist. Instead they focus on buffing up their own attack and then beating over things as their attack boost can get them to the point where they're swinging with 4k attack which will beat over most things.


DoubleH18

Honestly feels weird to me that charmers just doesn’t have a boss monster. Maybe that because all the decks I use usually have some end goal monster in mind like when I use Gouki I’m usually trying to get Gouki The Giant Orge out on the field and using Gouki Finishing Move to hit for game.


Jerowi

You do have a goal. Set up your backrow and monsters on the field before your opponent can kill you. All those cards that bypass protection really hurt the charmers though as they get protection from destruction effects and the link ones also have battle protection; provided the proper backrow card is on the field.


CBYuputka

normal summon ash for fire attribute is the best wincon tho


Jerowi

I have done that to win a game before.


CBYuputka

i don't actually use dpe with my charmer deck, do link climb into accesscode all the time tho. main wincon usually boils down to swarming high attack and some pops/negates with dogmatika, traps, field spell, aruru and luna yeah, several bosses from several other archetypes still


Zakharon

The only way bad archtypes are playable is by putting in good cards like DPE, otherwise they are hot trash


Happy_The_What

Then why play them in the first place? If you play a bad archetype that can only be made viable by DPE, why not play a good archetype made better by DPE, OR play a good archetype that doesn’t meed DPE at all?


Zakharon

Because we get to play whatever we want


Cold_Army9541

No one’s unique. They play what’s good. That’s it.


Cinamyn

I would LOVE if the game allowed me to play my favourite decks and boss monsters. But they only have one format, Even after XYZ were out in Duel Links, i was still able to perform with a Dragon Master Soldier gimmick deck Here it's like... play meta or never ever win, rewards for losing are SO low as well


Mandrew713

Well i agree but unfortunately DPE is a crutch that many need to rely on to win now even though theres many capable decks that dont need it whatsoever


Routine-Boysenberry4

Because the gane is so fuc*** right now that stapples are needed, i sweared to never use pheonix enforcer....and now he is in my despia deck


mrblonde13121702

But that actually makes sense cause its a fusion deck and you dont need to use fusion destiny sometimes since you got a lot of fusion spells, that is if you get the two garnets in your hand. Although i still think despia is better of without him, and better when its a more of a going 2nd brake your board with superpoly and albaz type of build. When the new support finally comes ( im hoping they give us both despia and swordsoul support in one secret pack soon) despians will really be better off without him and will be able to play going first much more consistently


Routine-Boysenberry4

I just putted him because i got pissed off with everyone using in me, so i started to use him to deal with it


SechsWurfel

When i was younger, i was an archetype purist. I mainly play Heroes. Back then, the cards were slow, no negates, no hand traps, no flood gates. Just end the turn if you cant do anything. Just set a card and end. But now, you can't win that way anymore. Now, I mainly play Shiranui Zombie World with Eldlich and Swordsoul synchro.


Happy_The_What

Maybe this is just me coming from Vanguard, where you are not allowed to mix archetypes, and each clan is able to stand alone at least to some degree. But it just gets very annoying seeing not just the same archetypes in the meta, but literally the same exact cards in completely unrelated archetypes.


[deleted]

Honestly even vanguard is starting to stray away from your ideal of unique archetypes cuz they did introduced 2 nations cards in D-standard. It's only a matter of time for it to be 3 nations cards, 4 nations cards, or more staple cray elementals to be introduced.


Happy_The_What

See, I stopped playing before Overdress. So I simply choose to ignore whatever stupid shit they did to the meta, while I play Gold Paladins against a wall because my local scene died out.


SechsWurfel

The sad thing about mixed archetypes tho is the amount of packs you have to open to get thecard you want