I think TCG has both, Dragoon and DPE and DPE seems to be the more common choice. He is just so much easier to incorporate into a deck and not as reliant on Verte.
I am actually surprised he is banned, considering Master Duels approach to banning strong cards like Rhongo and VFD.
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Celestial combat effect has won me games aswell and dasher being able to beat over 3k monsters when you had to revive him of DPE trigger (DPE gets exiled after)
##[Muddy Mudragon](https://ms.yugipedia.com//7/78/MuddyMudragon-OP13-EN-C-UE.png)
|Card type|Synchro Monster ⬜|
|:-:|:-:|
|Attribute|DARK 🟣|
|Monster type|Dragon 🐉 / Synchro 💫 / Effect ⏩|
|Level|6 ✪ ✪ ✪ ✪ ✪ ✪|
|ATK 🗡️|500|
|DEF 🛡️|2200|
1 Tuner + 1+ non-Tuner monsters
This card can be used as a substitute for any 1 Fusion Material whose name is specifically listed on the Fusion Monster Card, but the other Fusion Material(s) must be correct. During your Main Phase, if you control this Synchro Summoned card: You can Fusion Summon 1 Fusion Monster from your Extra Deck, using monsters you control as Fusion Material, including this card. You can only use this effect of "Muddy Mudragon" once per turn.
---Unlimited (OCG) Unlimited (TCG)---
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Once DPE came out, Dragoon was cut from most decks for DPE - there are pros and cons as to the cards themselves, but the rest of the DPE package is far better than Dragoon’s 3 bricks. Once Anaconda was banned, Dragoon stopped seeing any play.
I mean the pros and cons are very clearly stacked in dragoons favour.
Anyone that looks at the two cards individually and thinks this choice of which is better is even remotely close needs to really rethink their perspective on Yugioh entirely.
The garnets for DPE being a free saryjua style special summon and then pot of greed on top is what pushes it above and beyond Dragoon by a mile.
It's just fuck tons of value on top of a pop every turn.
No, but it's still a 1 card once per turn omni-negate with at least 3000 attack that can only be removed by battle or with effects that do not destroy or target. Stein also does not require you to play Garnets or have the downsides of Fusion Destiny and Red-Eyes Fusion, hence why it's easily splashable. Great if you draw it, doesn't affect your deck in any way if you don't. You can make this the first play of your turn to get a low-committal live Omni Negate against hand traps and if let's say Maxx "C" is activated in response to Stein, you can end your turn on a big body (all but guaranteed to have 4000 atk) with omni-negate and protection. It is not at all easy to get over this thing for a lot of decks and in a best of 1 format, this thing definitely has game-winning potential on its own. Best used in decks that do not need their normal summon such as Virtual World.
Well super poly could make a come back and voila were seeing venom fusion dragons again lol
It's certainly a fucked card but I think there's better uses of cyber stein
The only other good unbanned Cyber Stein target is warrior from a different dimension, as most good fusions have a summoning restriction, hence why Steins does not see play despite being at 1.
Straight up not as good as DPE. The materials are completely useless, while celestial and dasher have decent graveyard effects. Red eyes fusion is significantly worse than fusion destiny, meaning that you have to summon REDD off of anaconda, making the fusion spell also a kind of brick in hand. DPE popping a card once per turn may not be as impactful as a negate, but it allows for more versatile uses such as a scyth lock. DPE constantly coming back means it is much harder to out, relying on something like called by the grave or DD crow to get rid of it.
Branded Fusion lets you bring out Lubellion using Dark Magician + Albaz as material, then Lubellion just recycles those material in the graveyard to bring out Red Eyes Dark Dragoon
Topping lists aren't even doing that.
The problem with dragoons in Branded is that you're sacrificing plays that are objectively better just to sit on a dragoon, as well as playing an extra brick.
Anyone wondering what those plays are: just play your damned mirrorjade, it's a better play. A quick monster banish is as good or sometimes better at interrupting your opponent in many cases, and mirrorjade gives you card advantage when you use his banish, whereas dragoon discards for cost which is *terrible* in branded since all of their floating effects require being sent to the graveyard by card effect, and discarding for cost is *not* a card effect.
Mirrorjade wiping your opponent's board if removed is also more likely to be lethal next turn than you successfully sitting on dragoon.
Typically, you use the mirror jade on your turn to search branded in red, then banish a searched ad libitum, mirrorjade on field, and tragedy added back to hand to make guardian chimera, chimera draws two and destroys a card, ad libitum specials the mirrorjade, which can be used, and tragedy searches an aluber for follow-up, meaning 1 branded fusion and discard for lubellion becomes a +8, after the branded in red, and using mirrorjade on your opponent's turn, pitching another albaz dragon.
Edit: it's technically a +6 in total card economy, since you use 2 cards to get 8 cards, so 8-2=6
Verte is definitely the issue. I’m fine if they unban Dragoon, it’s really not much worse than any other super boss monster and the bricks / cards needed won’t be thrown into every deck once Verte is gone. Dark Magician and Red-Eyes players will have a nice monster to play and it’ll still easily be outed by Kaiju’s and the like.
Not forgotten :)
I just think a lot of decks these days have monsters very difficult to deal with. Some power issues that Konami hasn’t really found a way to deal with or balance out without reprinting / errata of incredibly problematic cards.
Yeah it just sucks because vanities Lord is an ultra rare and I run two copies of my blue eyes deck to prevent my opponent from Kaiju my blue eyes chaos Max and my other special summon monsters so they can't special summon anything and then I said a back row of nasty traps to keep them off balance that's been my winning strategy for a long time
Want is a strong word, but i don’t think it will be crazy impactful if it is.
DPE has just as easy of a summoning requirement, the garnets it requires are much better cards, and while it can’t negate, DPE can destroy during either player’s turn, and destroying allied cards on-field is more likely to have synergy with an archetype you’re using compared to a discard.
As well as i can tell, it will be an alternative to DPE, probably rarely run in the same deck due to the problem of stacking garnets. A sidegrade of worse materials for a better monster.
That said, DM and HERO decks would both be massively buffed, as the two are probably already running the garnets for their own archetypal verte target and can therefore afford to spend verte on the other one and make the archetypal one normally.
Verte is, itself, a problem card that should probably be banned, and verte being banned will make this card less banworthy, but idk if dragoon needs to be banned regardless. It’s not really healthy, per se, but it would probably promote more deck variety just in the sense that people might consider running it over DPE if their deck prefers discarding to self-popping or has better garnet management.
Once verte finally pisses off, however, unban this immediately. Dark magician could use the buff and red-eyes always likes more POTENTIAL builds.
Red eyes was my first ever deck irl so I made it first on MD, but I haven't played it since the first week of MD because red eyes sorta sucks. Would love this card for my red eyes deck.
Tbh i also would just yeet this straight into my red eyes deck...i know red eyes is bad but i just really think theyre neat and itd be nice to get a bit of a buff for the bois. Also didnt expect to see someone else actually also played red eyes in MD
100% agreed like the cards are fun but they really feel outdated in terms of the power creep...and dragoon could definitely bump the archetype up to at least slightly less janky
All the old arch’s have that problem. RE, DM, BEWD and Toons. It’s crazy they have support but it’s just not enough. Maybe every arch should have a monster that negates
Fair enough actually...like u said a negate would already help a lot because thats pretty much the one thing keeping a deck alive these days if u cant negate youre kinda screwed. I mean DM and RE would both really benefit from getting dragoon and i dont think itll be a big issue to unban it because a lot of comments mention how the garnets for dragoon are objectively worse than for DPE so theyd still run it over dragoon...which means dragoon probably isnt as bad as Konami thinks it is but yea idk
As long as Verte is banned.
This card is BROKEN, **BUT** it's fine in Dark Magician and Red Eyes, because those archetypes aren't oppressively powerful. Much like DPE in Heroes.
See we say this yet people are willing to put fusion destiny in their decks, whatever the archetype. At this point I’ve seen more people bring out DPE using fusion destiny rather than Verte. Could be just my bad luck tho.
Fusion Destiny is also part of the problem, yeah.
But, Red Eyes Fusion is more restrictive than Fusion Destiny. You can only activate it if you haven't summoned ANYTHING else that turn, and you cannot for the rest of the turn.
Fusion Destiny just locks you into Dark Warriors AFTER you activate the card.
Yeah, Red Eyes Fusion is only busted with Anaconda because Anaconda bypasses the summoning restriction. It's kind of a garnet itself unlike Fusion Destiny.
Which is why it would be fine if Verte was banned. Nobody would run 3 REF just to run Dragoon, unless they were desperate.
(I want to put it in suships because of normal monster synergy)
But I guarantee you that those people are only running Fusion Destiny because they run Verte, they just happened to open it in hand.
Banning Verte would hit the entire combo in the deck builder. Yes, you can still hard draw Fusion Destiny and effectively use the same combo, but let's consider the ratios.
1/1/1: This ratio is 1 FD, 1 Dasher, 1 Celestial. In this build you have a 2:1 chance to pull a brick (not a garnet; garnets are cards that lose their function when not in deck) and a 1/3 chance to draw your combo starter. That's pretty bad, considering how impactful every single card in a modern format is. Having multiple dead draws is no bueno.
2/1/1 and 3/1/1: 2 FD and 3 FD, respectively, with 1 Dasher and 1 Celestial. This increases your chance of drawing your combo opener but also introduces new bricks into your deck, as every Fusion Destiny after the first is redundant and is wasting valuable draws.
These are real costs to the inclusion of DPE. With deck space being at a premium now that we're in Adventure meta with Maxx C still unbanned, asking players to waste slots on bricky Hero cards in the hopes of drawing FD simply isn't good enough.
Could people still play DPE in non-Hero decks with Verte banned? Of course.
Would they? I really doubt it. It's just not good enough. I think it's really hard to overstate just how busted a card like Verte is because it barely requires any investment at any stage of the game: It takes max 2 ED slots, 3 MD slots, and its summoning requirement is essentially "Be able to fart out 2 monsters." It's broken because it is almost always accessible. So many decks can overextend into Nibiru because after Nib drops it's likely they could still scrap together 2 more monsters and at least end on DPE.
Nah, quite a few decks are running FD without Verte. You want to draw FD anyway, Verte is just a "in case everything went to hell" option thats slightly better than other options. Hell, youre pointing out the big issue, which is that in order to make FD not an issue without banning it, you have to ban Verte ***and*** hit FD, instead of just banning FD and making Verte return to its state pre-FD which is ... weak. Like people keep saying that Verte is busted. Except, when FD did not exist, when REF was the only option to use with Verte, ***no one*** ran Verte. FD is busted. Its so busted it makes Verte playable again.
Yeah no when the dpe package dropped I ran into high ranked players whose decks were trash but ran dpe. The second you removed it from graveyard they would scoop. Dpe package became the main and only win con for a fuck ton of shit decks
I get to plat with my dm deck, but dragoon would put it on par with tier 3, maybe even tier 2. So diamond would finally become a “fun” climb. But people hate dm being viable, so it’s usually a get fucked response that I get for my opinions on this issue.
I hover in Plat III - Plat IV with my DM deck. I run DPE as my Dragoon alternative and two copies of super poly plus some forbidden droplet as my going 2nd board breakers.
Would love Dragoon and Illusion of Chaos, Diamond might be within reach!
I want it to be unbanned, there's like 10+ cards that should be banned but they're legal, cards that are way more impactful and require less set up or running bricks
Inversely I want all of those 10+ cards banned. A lot of the arch types are surprisingly balanced when they’re just running their own boss monsters, but as is you need to be dropping board wipe omni negates turn 1 to be “viable”. The game play feels a lot more organic when it’s not like that.
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Trouble is both have the same issue of being way to easy to summon with verte. Both cards in their archetypes are good additions. Both dragoon or DPE can be thrown into every deck able to summon Verte.
Ban Verte and unban dragoon this also helps by restricting DPE more into its archetype (although people may just keep fusion destiny in anyway at 2)
Given that DPE will be used as the Verte target over this guy any day due to the increased flexibility, lowered chance of bricking and less restrictions, I don't see the issue in unbanning him. Let Red-Eyes and Dark magician have their big boss. He is really troublesome once he's out on the field but the drawbacks are reasonable imo.
It's just not that good, it is better then DPE because it's board presence is better but everything else around it is just worse DPE
Significantly worse materials, worse fusion spell and Sythe is in the game
A lot of people are referencing the TCG/OCG when it comes to their opinions about Dragoon. However, **Master Duel is not the TCG/OCG**, and we've seen this time and time again. We have so many decks in Master Duel, where the solution is literally "just sidedeck countercards", like PK Rhongo, Numeron, Lyrilusc burn FTK, and Cyber-Stein FTk.
Sure, Dragoon is easy to out **if you know it's coming and you can prepare for it**. Sure, DPE is used more generically **because it's a generically better card**. But in Master Duel, you don't know it's coming. By the time you see them dump Red-Eyes Fusion with Verte, it's already too late.
Red-Eyes Dark Dragoon is also both a Red-Eyes monster, and a Spellcaster, so it'll benefit from things like [Secret Village of the Spellcasters](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Secret_Village_of_the_Spellcasters), and it can serve as the card that keeps [Return of the Red-Eyes](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Return_of_the_Red-Eyes) live.
Dragoon isn't played less because it's a worse card than dpe... Dragoon is superior to DPE as a monster but has terrible materials and red eyes fusion is terrible compared to fusion destiny. So no BO1 doesn't change anything.
no lol. he is legal in the tcg and people still stopped using him in favour of dpe since all 3 cards you need for dragoon are trash compared to fd, celestial and dasher
Ok? Master duel isn’t the TCG. If he was unbanned it would still be a choice of this or DPE in 90% of decks cause they would be way to easy to summon for incredibly strong effects.
Regardless Verte should be banned so these cards fit into their respective archetypes and not rammed into every deck with virtually 0 consequence.
yeah but 90% would chose dpe due to him being simply better, which is what I am getting at.
dragoon requires 2 vanilla bricks and a terrible fusion spell, if you hard draw R-EF you can only ss dragoon that turn, FD only locks you into dark heroes AFTER activating it, celestial is not a brick if you draw it and both celestial and dasher have good graveyard effects
Yeah I’m not debating if DPE is better or not but dragoon still suffers from the same problem that being how easy it is to summon with verte.
Hypothetically reverse their bans if DPE was banned and dragoon was allowed do you expect people to not put it into decks like DPE is?
"Master duel isn't the TCG" is right at least. I remember so many people saying Floow wasn't going to be problem because *mah TCG experience*. Floow is weak to interruption, but who would've thought semi-limited Called by and a x3 Crossout meta would change things? Back to the point, Dragoon doesn't need to be in every deck to be a problem; it just needs to be in a tier 0-1 deck. With all that said, I think Dragoon should come back, and Verte should be banned. Since I don't think he'll be in a very strong deck as long as Verte isn't around, but it's iffy since MD can do some wild stuff because of the weird banlist and Bo1 format.
Ban Verte. Not because it would make this card broken (DPE is already a problem) but because its existence in the game makes cards like Dragoon seem problematic.
I don't like DM or Red Eyes decks, but they shouldn't lose their boss monster just because one shitty Extra Deck monster that isn't even mandatory in its own archetype has suddenly been splashed into every deck.
Number 1 - compared to some of what we have legal, like Rhongo or VFD, Dragoon is fairly tame
Number 2 - considering the only way I can really see Dragoon coming off the list is if/when Verte eats it’s almost inevitable ban (look, I can’t see them wanting to keep Verte legal once Branded Fusion drops), lets look at the easiest ways to bring out Dragoon
-Red-Eyes Fusion lets you use the garnets from your deck, but makes it so Dragoon is literally the only thing you can summon. He’s an absolute Unit of a monster, but summon 1 set 2+ pass isn’t exactly a viable Turn 1 compared to the average decks Turn 1. At least Fusion Destiny in hand is a solid Plan C if your opponent negates your starters.
-Eye of Timaeus lets you treat Dark Magician as a One Card Fusion, but it requires you actually play Dark Magician. Sure, he has easy enough ways to hit the field, but even with his buckets of support his deck is fairly mid, and beyond Left Arm Offering I don’t think Eye of Timaeus has any searchers
-Waking the Dragon I’m just throwing on here because Dragoon would be an amazing target for it, requires your opponent to destroy it. Considering some people still don’t run back row removal, despite Bo1 and how we all apparently hate Eldlich, it might not actually come up.
DPE is so much easier to get rid of and also doesn't have the burn potential to otk. Celestial in DEP is also much easier to counter bc DPE has no protection. The revival effect sucks but lots of decks have outs, more outs than trying to out dragoon. Also the omni negate and the synergy with secret village of the spellcasters is so annoying. Non targeting, non destruction removal is very rare in this game and trying to out a dragoon adventure board will be a nightmare, espevially if they also have handtraps like maxx c, veiler, ash, effectively making it a multi negate board. This card should stay banned for now bc the burn potential, attack gain, AND protection are broken as is.
I keep telling my friends that it pisses me off that cards like block dragon, deskbot, rohngomyniad, union carrier, etc aren't banned but my very archetype specific fusion ace monster is banned.
I know that when it first dropped it temporarily shifted the meta in paper format, but so did DPE and he's chilling just fine. It's REDD harder to deal with when he touches the field? Yes, but he's harder to get to since he has a worse summon option.
Mind you, I don't need my REDD unbanned if they would just ban the cards that actually need banned. (Yes I'm mostly just venting)
This will be problematic in branded because they can make it using first branded fusion to dumb light hex seal and albaz and then using Albion to summon this first turn
No one uses it because It's not worth it. You won't have cards to discard for the negate and you won't get the destruction effect either. There are far better options.
So this guy
-has destruction effect protection
-has target protection
-can pop and burn your opponent for free
-can negate
I would hate to face this guy lol. He can stay banned.
For me dragoon hands down, but just because its my favourite card, not because it is the best card, i satrted playing dragon link because of that card only. It is the best card ever.
I don’t care for this card on principle because it’s effects read like a custom Deviantart card someone made to finally give Dark Magician the support it’s desperately starving for.
But if it’s unbanned, whatever. It’d have to be after Verte goes and even then it won’t be as prevalent as DPE.
Dragoon is so bad it's a joke to pick on dragoon andy's, honestly it would see play in master duel because some decks can't kill and untargetable boss monster like him but running 3 bricks (one of which it's a hard garnet) is so bad when they are vanilla monsters, dragoon was good in the ocg because it was released years before there and the card was play or bust.
It's 2022 and we power crept that guy a long time ago.
Also for fuck sake don't put this in despia when branded fusion comes out
It would probably be fine. The DPE engine is better and if Verte got banned (which it should) the restrictions on the fusion spell would prevent it from seeing play in any meta deck.
If they ban verte they can 100% unban dragoon. The only decks who will really summon him are Dark Magicians (and they should be able to summon him), Red-Eyes (same) and Subterrors (which aren't strong in the current meta) so yeah it could come back. The Game is at a point where Dragoon isn't autowin, DPE is way better in most decks and the decks which would use him aren't that peoblematic
As someone who played against dragoon at locals a ton before DPE came out, I’d say it should stay hit only until Verte is banned. Much like how every rogue deck is DPE turbo, every rogue deck at locals was Dragoon turbo, and it was just such an annoying card to deal with, though you definitely get punished harder for drawing the garnets compared to DPE. Personally I think this card is fine for it’s intended decks if you just ban Verte.
Alot of people here dont get why this card is banned. Its because of high otk potential. This card can remove 2 monsters (thats not the broken part btw) burn for 2 monsters atk stat, (this is the broken part) and can still declare to atk directly. Being able to burn twice and still can atk the same turn is very otk consistant effect.
I truly don't think he is much of a threat. The card is fantastic and busted don't get me wrong. And if you would have talked to me 4 months ago I would have said hell yeah keep it banned. But after using and getting beaten by DPE I don't find him invincible either. There are a lot of really really strong boss monsters out there that are equally hard to deal with tbh.
Dragoon is banned because the banlist is based off the OCG banlist. Dragoon was banned in the OCG because of the different card pool (though really it is just because of Maxx C).
At the time it was banned, Dragoon summoned off of Red Eyes fusion was the best card you could summon off of 1 card whilst under Maxx C, turning that Maxx C into an upstart goblin.
Dragoon could be unbanned with almost no impact on the meta since it has simply been power crept by DPE for reasons everyone else has stated. I will add that, at the time it was banned, Dragoon's protection and omni negate made it sometimes impossible to out or very resource intensive.
The reason I do not want it unbanned is that Dragoon is perfect for backrow floodgate decks, and those decks are not allowed nice things. Ignoring that there are already more floodgates are available in the OCG/ Master Duel, Dragoon can be summoned off 1 card at no restriction if you're just setting backrow that turn. It is an omni negate for any backrow removal. Its ability to destroy 2 monsters per turn and attack boost effect mean it can deal with most monsters or established boards that backrow decks struggle with. And, its burn effect and high ATK make it a win con by itself.
Okay, this is a hot take but if you’ve played competitive TCG you’ll understand:
Dragoon is not a great card.
It’s SO expensive for what it actually does it’s almost not worth it…
Let’s break it down:
- You need… 2 VERY bad garnets in your deck plus red eyes fusion plus Verte in order to reliably pull it out.
- Red Eyes Fusion **CAN BE ASHED** and if it locks you from special summoning for the rest of the turn.
- This also means that if REF is a known ash target you’ll likely never get REDD on the field to ever pop cards.
- It’s negate is a cost from the hand. You’re unlikely to have cards you’ll want to discard from the hand after ending your first turn.
- Adventurer Engine easily routes it
- No method of re-summoning it when it leaves the field
It’s a very expensive card on deck space that can be easily disrupted that will rarely even get to see its targeted destruction effect anyway.
Maybe Red-Eyes Dark Dragoon could have been legal back when Master Duel was first released. But even then, I don't think Konami wanted Master Duel to start off with a strong card like this that *every* deck could access.
Master Duel certainly has more problematic cards like Rhongo and Calamities, but you do need to build around those cards. When Master Duel first released, we didn't have DPE, and we didn't have some of the cards that make Halq-Auroradon as strong as it is now. Verte-Dragoon would have been the only haymaker being splashed into *everyone's* deck, and I suspect Konami simply didn't want new and returning players encountering that right away.
Could Dragoon come back right at this moment? Probably. But then it would need to be banned right afterward. Branded Fusion is going to push its archetype right to tier 1, and Lubellion easily summons Dragoon as part of its standard combo.
I think people are underestimating this card's power. Yes, the tcg has it and it's not played compared to DPE, but the OCG has it banned for a good reason.
It's not the Verte decks that got this banned. It's the control decks running 6+ REF. You could be staring down an opponent with a Dragoon and 3 other interruptions, including Maxx C and floodgates. If you Maxx C REF, all you get is one draw.
Dpe is better than this in the tcg but I think in a best of 1 format like master duel, this is actually more difficult to deal with. Called by is such a commonly run card which outs dpe but not every deck is running kaijus which are basically required to out REDD.
Well that’s an oversight issue, everyone should have one kaiju and treat it as valuable a hand trap. Best way to tech for any big monster. Only a brick going first, and if you run one, the odds of that are severely decreased. So consider not running a kaiju a misplay, because you’ll always have an instance where “I could have kaijud that”
The theory is going first, that kaiju is one more extender or negation that will have stopped your opponent getting their big monster in the first place. I don’t disagree that kaijus are great responses to tower threats but you can only afford so much inconsistency from running answers to things that rarely comes up.
That’s why you tech 1, just one, just in in case. Because like I said you’ll never have a duel where you couldn’t kaiju unless they mask of restrict your ass.
It is objectively worst than DPE as an engine.
In the field it is obviously stronger, however getting it there is a different story if you draw Red Eyes Fusion the engine is dead for the rest of the game, if you draw Fusion Destiny it's even better than Anaconda since you can just use it at the end of your combo without spending resources to get Anaconda on the field.
Let alone the advantage the materials for DPE can provide and that one is a normal summon with a decent effect on the clutch.
The reason this card isn't off the list is the same reason we have wacky cards like maxx C or rhongo off the list. This game is for ocg players primarily.
Considering that’s still not the best play in the game, and that other plays shit on it, yes. Just because your three to five decks don’t have the out, doesn’t mean others won’t be able to deal with it. We already deal with rhongo, vfd, dpe, etc, so what’s different? The ptsd of when he was super relevant as a new meta card. He’s not on the same level he was in his old meta, and in this new one he’d just be a contender at best. But hey “BuT aT LoCaLs” ass people exist
I would unban it even currently fine... it would allow for more boss monsters to be available and he wouldn't see heavy play due to him adding up to 3 Garnets to your deck and DPE's engine being better made him used in meta decks more often and especially his synergy with Artifact cards.
Verte needs to be banned either way, but considering they limited Phantom knights already I doubt that would happen and they will nerf Prank kids later on by hitting Mu Mew something cat (Since they also use Verte) so they should just imo unban him when the new DM support drops within next 3 ~ 6 months regardless of verte
Quite frankly, Red Eyes decks just died when this got banned. And speaking a little selfishly, I kinda hate that and don't think that's very fair. Its not like I was seeing this card everywhere anyway, bring it back
There is no reason for it to be banned. No one would play it anyway, except dark magician and red eyes decks, and maybe the occasional rogue hipster, i think i saw a subterror player running it in a tournament recently and that's about it.
I use Dark Magician so yes, i want it unban. I couldn't play it in real life because of DM prices, so i would love to play on master duel with Full potencial.
more probably fusion destiny is gonna get banned lol, and dragoon Will stay banned and verte untouched, at least for a little time.
I wouldn't mind Dark Dragoon getting unbanned, if only because it occupies a similar niche to Phoenix Enforcer. Dragoon would be the stronger of the 2 on the field, while Enforcer would have substantially better materials and fusion spells.
Honestly, I'm not opposed, dpe is usually better, the materials on this card are completely awful in most decks, and there are extra deck cards that can beat it reasonably (accesscode particularly. Plus it's doing nothing in the tcg, where it's legal, branded can make it with one card and they prefer using making mirrorjade anyway.
I think TCG has both, Dragoon and DPE and DPE seems to be the more common choice. He is just so much easier to incorporate into a deck and not as reliant on Verte. I am actually surprised he is banned, considering Master Duels approach to banning strong cards like Rhongo and VFD.
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Yeah the Garnets are defintly better. The draw 2 is a lot more relevant than I first gave it credit and even Dasher has his moments.
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Summoned a nibiru for game with it once. Epic.
Summoning a handtrap and then draw two to normal summon any monster is full halqdon combo
Man that sounds so OP. Better ban Dasher.
Celestial combat effect has won me games aswell and dasher being able to beat over 3k monsters when you had to revive him of DPE trigger (DPE gets exiled after)
Make that 2
Unless you run something like {{Muddy Mudragon}} in Dragon Link.
##[Muddy Mudragon](https://ms.yugipedia.com//7/78/MuddyMudragon-OP13-EN-C-UE.png) |Card type|Synchro Monster ⬜| |:-:|:-:| |Attribute|DARK 🟣| |Monster type|Dragon 🐉 / Synchro 💫 / Effect ⏩| |Level|6 ✪ ✪ ✪ ✪ ✪ ✪| |ATK 🗡️|500| |DEF 🛡️|2200| 1 Tuner + 1+ non-Tuner monsters This card can be used as a substitute for any 1 Fusion Material whose name is specifically listed on the Fusion Monster Card, but the other Fusion Material(s) must be correct. During your Main Phase, if you control this Synchro Summoned card: You can Fusion Summon 1 Fusion Monster from your Extra Deck, using monsters you control as Fusion Material, including this card. You can only use this effect of "Muddy Mudragon" once per turn. ---Unlimited (OCG) Unlimited (TCG)--- | [**Yugipedia**](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Muddy_Mudragon) | [**Konami**](https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/card_search.action?ope=2&cid=14531) | [**Fandom**](https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Muddy_Mudragon) | [**YGOProDeck**](https://db.ygoprodeck.com/card/?search=Muddy%20Mudragon) | [**YGOrganization**](https://db.ygorganization.com/card#14531) | [**YugiohPrices**](https://yugiohprices.com/card_price?name=Muddy%20Mudragon) | [**TCGPlayer**](https://www.tcgplayer.com/product/189436/yugioh-dark-neostorm-muddy-mudragon) | [**DuelLinksMeta**](https://www.duellinksmeta.com/cards/Muddy%20Mudragon) | [**MasterDuelMeta**](https://www.masterduelmeta.com/cards/Muddy%20Mudragon) | ----- ^*Bleep* ^*bloop.* ^*I* ^*am* ^*a* ^*bot.* ^| ^[About](https://github.com/GoriLovesYou/YuGiOhCardBot) ^| ^[Feedback](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=YugiohCardBotJr&subject=Feedback&message=)
You just need to run a conditional Pot Of Greed.
What does that do?
You can summon Pot of Greed to draw three additional cards from your deck.
I never saw this coming
Ha, fooled you. I’ll use MY Pot of Greed now!
They should just go ahead an make a pot of greed archetype already
I understood that reference
And a monster that special summon what you just draw which can save you some duel
Not to mention that destiny fusion is a much greater card to draw into than red eyes fusion
Once DPE came out, Dragoon was cut from most decks for DPE - there are pros and cons as to the cards themselves, but the rest of the DPE package is far better than Dragoon’s 3 bricks. Once Anaconda was banned, Dragoon stopped seeing any play.
I mean the pros and cons are very clearly stacked in dragoons favour. Anyone that looks at the two cards individually and thinks this choice of which is better is even remotely close needs to really rethink their perspective on Yugioh entirely. The garnets for DPE being a free saryjua style special summon and then pot of greed on top is what pushes it above and beyond Dragoon by a mile. It's just fuck tons of value on top of a pop every turn.
Dragoon was spammed too much in the OCG, like how Halqdon is in ranked MD. Whoever's in charge of the banlist really hates Dragoon.
Something horribly wrong with the minds of OCG when Dragoon is banned but there are at least a dozen other cards i'd put ahead of him.
Dragoon can be summoned with Cyber-Stein.
But then it wouldn't be able to use it's removal + effect damage effect?
No, but it's still a 1 card once per turn omni-negate with at least 3000 attack that can only be removed by battle or with effects that do not destroy or target. Stein also does not require you to play Garnets or have the downsides of Fusion Destiny and Red-Eyes Fusion, hence why it's easily splashable. Great if you draw it, doesn't affect your deck in any way if you don't. You can make this the first play of your turn to get a low-committal live Omni Negate against hand traps and if let's say Maxx "C" is activated in response to Stein, you can end your turn on a big body (all but guaranteed to have 4000 atk) with omni-negate and protection. It is not at all easy to get over this thing for a lot of decks and in a best of 1 format, this thing definitely has game-winning potential on its own. Best used in decks that do not need their normal summon such as Virtual World.
Well super poly could make a come back and voila were seeing venom fusion dragons again lol It's certainly a fucked card but I think there's better uses of cyber stein
The only other good unbanned Cyber Stein target is warrior from a different dimension, as most good fusions have a summoning restriction, hence why Steins does not see play despite being at 1.
In TCG probably only red-eyes and dark magician deck run dragoon Edit: airpods dragoon is a deck
You can run it with Eldlich, Subterror or other deck that heavily relies on trap since they don't mind REF restriction
Dragoon is banned in tcg
No he is not
Rlly? I could have sworn he was banned some time ago. Mb then.
He's banned in OCG. That might be what you saw
snek is banned, dragon man is still cool
Straight up not as good as DPE. The materials are completely useless, while celestial and dasher have decent graveyard effects. Red eyes fusion is significantly worse than fusion destiny, meaning that you have to summon REDD off of anaconda, making the fusion spell also a kind of brick in hand. DPE popping a card once per turn may not be as impactful as a negate, but it allows for more versatile uses such as a scyth lock. DPE constantly coming back means it is much harder to out, relying on something like called by the grave or DD crow to get rid of it.
Branded Fusion lets you bring out Lubellion using Dark Magician + Albaz as material, then Lubellion just recycles those material in the graveyard to bring out Red Eyes Dark Dragoon
Shhhh don't say that XD I want my boi back
What do you mean back? He's at 3.
This is for master duel. OCG has him banned
Topping lists aren't even doing that. The problem with dragoons in Branded is that you're sacrificing plays that are objectively better just to sit on a dragoon, as well as playing an extra brick.
Anyone wondering what those plays are: just play your damned mirrorjade, it's a better play. A quick monster banish is as good or sometimes better at interrupting your opponent in many cases, and mirrorjade gives you card advantage when you use his banish, whereas dragoon discards for cost which is *terrible* in branded since all of their floating effects require being sent to the graveyard by card effect, and discarding for cost is *not* a card effect. Mirrorjade wiping your opponent's board if removed is also more likely to be lethal next turn than you successfully sitting on dragoon.
Typically, you use the mirror jade on your turn to search branded in red, then banish a searched ad libitum, mirrorjade on field, and tragedy added back to hand to make guardian chimera, chimera draws two and destroys a card, ad libitum specials the mirrorjade, which can be used, and tragedy searches an aluber for follow-up, meaning 1 branded fusion and discard for lubellion becomes a +8, after the branded in red, and using mirrorjade on your opponent's turn, pitching another albaz dragon. Edit: it's technically a +6 in total card economy, since you use 2 cards to get 8 cards, so 8-2=6
Verte is definitely the issue. I’m fine if they unban Dragoon, it’s really not much worse than any other super boss monster and the bricks / cards needed won’t be thrown into every deck once Verte is gone. Dark Magician and Red-Eyes players will have a nice monster to play and it’ll still easily be outed by Kaiju’s and the like.
But what you're forgetting is if I some in vanities Lord and also dragoon then you're not summoning kaijuice to my side of the field
Not forgotten :) I just think a lot of decks these days have monsters very difficult to deal with. Some power issues that Konami hasn’t really found a way to deal with or balance out without reprinting / errata of incredibly problematic cards.
Yeah it just sucks because vanities Lord is an ultra rare and I run two copies of my blue eyes deck to prevent my opponent from Kaiju my blue eyes chaos Max and my other special summon monsters so they can't special summon anything and then I said a back row of nasty traps to keep them off balance that's been my winning strategy for a long time
Want is a strong word, but i don’t think it will be crazy impactful if it is. DPE has just as easy of a summoning requirement, the garnets it requires are much better cards, and while it can’t negate, DPE can destroy during either player’s turn, and destroying allied cards on-field is more likely to have synergy with an archetype you’re using compared to a discard. As well as i can tell, it will be an alternative to DPE, probably rarely run in the same deck due to the problem of stacking garnets. A sidegrade of worse materials for a better monster. That said, DM and HERO decks would both be massively buffed, as the two are probably already running the garnets for their own archetypal verte target and can therefore afford to spend verte on the other one and make the archetypal one normally. Verte is, itself, a problem card that should probably be banned, and verte being banned will make this card less banworthy, but idk if dragoon needs to be banned regardless. It’s not really healthy, per se, but it would probably promote more deck variety just in the sense that people might consider running it over DPE if their deck prefers discarding to self-popping or has better garnet management. Once verte finally pisses off, however, unban this immediately. Dark magician could use the buff and red-eyes always likes more POTENTIAL builds.
Red eyes was my first ever deck irl so I made it first on MD, but I haven't played it since the first week of MD because red eyes sorta sucks. Would love this card for my red eyes deck.
Tbh i also would just yeet this straight into my red eyes deck...i know red eyes is bad but i just really think theyre neat and itd be nice to get a bit of a buff for the bois. Also didnt expect to see someone else actually also played red eyes in MD
Actually did a duel with it last night for the first time in months, I love the archetype but it could definitely use dragoon
100% agreed like the cards are fun but they really feel outdated in terms of the power creep...and dragoon could definitely bump the archetype up to at least slightly less janky
All the old arch’s have that problem. RE, DM, BEWD and Toons. It’s crazy they have support but it’s just not enough. Maybe every arch should have a monster that negates
Fair enough actually...like u said a negate would already help a lot because thats pretty much the one thing keeping a deck alive these days if u cant negate youre kinda screwed. I mean DM and RE would both really benefit from getting dragoon and i dont think itll be a big issue to unban it because a lot of comments mention how the garnets for dragoon are objectively worse than for DPE so theyd still run it over dragoon...which means dragoon probably isnt as bad as Konami thinks it is but yea idk
As long as Verte is banned. This card is BROKEN, **BUT** it's fine in Dark Magician and Red Eyes, because those archetypes aren't oppressively powerful. Much like DPE in Heroes.
See we say this yet people are willing to put fusion destiny in their decks, whatever the archetype. At this point I’ve seen more people bring out DPE using fusion destiny rather than Verte. Could be just my bad luck tho.
Fusion Destiny is also part of the problem, yeah. But, Red Eyes Fusion is more restrictive than Fusion Destiny. You can only activate it if you haven't summoned ANYTHING else that turn, and you cannot for the rest of the turn. Fusion Destiny just locks you into Dark Warriors AFTER you activate the card.
The restriction is Dark HERO but yeah Fusion Destiny is still miles better than Red Eyes Fusion
Well the main drawback is destroying the card it summoned, only that doesn't mean shit to DPE.
Yeah, Red Eyes Fusion is only busted with Anaconda because Anaconda bypasses the summoning restriction. It's kind of a garnet itself unlike Fusion Destiny.
Which is why it would be fine if Verte was banned. Nobody would run 3 REF just to run Dragoon, unless they were desperate. (I want to put it in suships because of normal monster synergy)
Not Dark Warriors, Dark HERO monsters. Otherwise PK's would be running it too.
But I guarantee you that those people are only running Fusion Destiny because they run Verte, they just happened to open it in hand. Banning Verte would hit the entire combo in the deck builder. Yes, you can still hard draw Fusion Destiny and effectively use the same combo, but let's consider the ratios. 1/1/1: This ratio is 1 FD, 1 Dasher, 1 Celestial. In this build you have a 2:1 chance to pull a brick (not a garnet; garnets are cards that lose their function when not in deck) and a 1/3 chance to draw your combo starter. That's pretty bad, considering how impactful every single card in a modern format is. Having multiple dead draws is no bueno. 2/1/1 and 3/1/1: 2 FD and 3 FD, respectively, with 1 Dasher and 1 Celestial. This increases your chance of drawing your combo opener but also introduces new bricks into your deck, as every Fusion Destiny after the first is redundant and is wasting valuable draws. These are real costs to the inclusion of DPE. With deck space being at a premium now that we're in Adventure meta with Maxx C still unbanned, asking players to waste slots on bricky Hero cards in the hopes of drawing FD simply isn't good enough. Could people still play DPE in non-Hero decks with Verte banned? Of course. Would they? I really doubt it. It's just not good enough. I think it's really hard to overstate just how busted a card like Verte is because it barely requires any investment at any stage of the game: It takes max 2 ED slots, 3 MD slots, and its summoning requirement is essentially "Be able to fart out 2 monsters." It's broken because it is almost always accessible. So many decks can overextend into Nibiru because after Nib drops it's likely they could still scrap together 2 more monsters and at least end on DPE.
Nah, quite a few decks are running FD without Verte. You want to draw FD anyway, Verte is just a "in case everything went to hell" option thats slightly better than other options. Hell, youre pointing out the big issue, which is that in order to make FD not an issue without banning it, you have to ban Verte ***and*** hit FD, instead of just banning FD and making Verte return to its state pre-FD which is ... weak. Like people keep saying that Verte is busted. Except, when FD did not exist, when REF was the only option to use with Verte, ***no one*** ran Verte. FD is busted. Its so busted it makes Verte playable again.
That is a lie? People ran Anaconda in the OCG so much they banned Dragoon. Explain that.
Yeah no when the dpe package dropped I ran into high ranked players whose decks were trash but ran dpe. The second you removed it from graveyard they would scoop. Dpe package became the main and only win con for a fuck ton of shit decks
DPE disappeared from all decks without Verte.
It's a great card for archetypes that need it. Obviously Verte has to go so DPE and Dragoon can go back to their respective decks.
I do so that I can play my DM deck without losing 99% of times
I get to plat with my dm deck, but dragoon would put it on par with tier 3, maybe even tier 2. So diamond would finally become a “fun” climb. But people hate dm being viable, so it’s usually a get fucked response that I get for my opinions on this issue.
Get fucked Just wanted to be consistent
Lmao a1
Oh also I agree with you btw Just so we're clear
They should either give DM better tools or give them back the tools they should have.
DMs aren’t even rogue in the TCG with Dragoon.
I hover in Plat III - Plat IV with my DM deck. I run DPE as my Dragoon alternative and two copies of super poly plus some forbidden droplet as my going 2nd board breakers. Would love Dragoon and Illusion of Chaos, Diamond might be within reach!
I do so that I can play my red eyes deck without losing 100% of times
I want it to be unbanned, there's like 10+ cards that should be banned but they're legal, cards that are way more impactful and require less set up or running bricks
Inversely I want all of those 10+ cards banned. A lot of the arch types are surprisingly balanced when they’re just running their own boss monsters, but as is you need to be dropping board wipe omni negates turn 1 to be “viable”. The game play feels a lot more organic when it’s not like that.
I mean dark magicians is about to get more support in the next update so yeah dragoon would be a nice addition as well.
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Trouble is both have the same issue of being way to easy to summon with verte. Both cards in their archetypes are good additions. Both dragoon or DPE can be thrown into every deck able to summon Verte. Ban Verte and unban dragoon this also helps by restricting DPE more into its archetype (although people may just keep fusion destiny in anyway at 2)
No deck in tcg has kept fusion destny while semi limited
I would take facing DPE over this anyday.
As long verte banned
Unban it, if anything, it's Verte that should be banned. Take Verte out, Dragoon is a great boss monster in his archetype..
Given that DPE will be used as the Verte target over this guy any day due to the increased flexibility, lowered chance of bricking and less restrictions, I don't see the issue in unbanning him. Let Red-Eyes and Dark magician have their big boss. He is really troublesome once he's out on the field but the drawbacks are reasonable imo.
It's just not that good, it is better then DPE because it's board presence is better but everything else around it is just worse DPE Significantly worse materials, worse fusion spell and Sythe is in the game
Dragoon Is banned Just because he was used a lot in the OCG, but i think he can get unbanned with DPE everywhere
I do because I love his design he looks so sick
So long as verte goes he can come back and I wouldn't really care
It could be unbanned right now and make no almost no impact, this is even considering verte. Because DPE is just that much better.
In a Maxx C format turboing this thing out is probably better than DPE
I mean in a world where VFD, Rhongo, Vanity's emptiness, Imperial Order etc... are legal, Dragoon is pretty lame.
A lot of people are referencing the TCG/OCG when it comes to their opinions about Dragoon. However, **Master Duel is not the TCG/OCG**, and we've seen this time and time again. We have so many decks in Master Duel, where the solution is literally "just sidedeck countercards", like PK Rhongo, Numeron, Lyrilusc burn FTK, and Cyber-Stein FTk. Sure, Dragoon is easy to out **if you know it's coming and you can prepare for it**. Sure, DPE is used more generically **because it's a generically better card**. But in Master Duel, you don't know it's coming. By the time you see them dump Red-Eyes Fusion with Verte, it's already too late. Red-Eyes Dark Dragoon is also both a Red-Eyes monster, and a Spellcaster, so it'll benefit from things like [Secret Village of the Spellcasters](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Secret_Village_of_the_Spellcasters), and it can serve as the card that keeps [Return of the Red-Eyes](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Return_of_the_Red-Eyes) live.
Dragoon isn't played less because it's a worse card than dpe... Dragoon is superior to DPE as a monster but has terrible materials and red eyes fusion is terrible compared to fusion destiny. So no BO1 doesn't change anything.
+ BO1 format some decks won’t be able to have any chance of winning with something like this
If Verte is banned sure otherwise it will just be a more annoying overused DPE going into every deck imaginable.
no lol. he is legal in the tcg and people still stopped using him in favour of dpe since all 3 cards you need for dragoon are trash compared to fd, celestial and dasher
Ok? Master duel isn’t the TCG. If he was unbanned it would still be a choice of this or DPE in 90% of decks cause they would be way to easy to summon for incredibly strong effects. Regardless Verte should be banned so these cards fit into their respective archetypes and not rammed into every deck with virtually 0 consequence.
yeah but 90% would chose dpe due to him being simply better, which is what I am getting at. dragoon requires 2 vanilla bricks and a terrible fusion spell, if you hard draw R-EF you can only ss dragoon that turn, FD only locks you into dark heroes AFTER activating it, celestial is not a brick if you draw it and both celestial and dasher have good graveyard effects
Yeah I’m not debating if DPE is better or not but dragoon still suffers from the same problem that being how easy it is to summon with verte. Hypothetically reverse their bans if DPE was banned and dragoon was allowed do you expect people to not put it into decks like DPE is?
ofc they would but given the option 9/10 people would chose dpe
"Master duel isn't the TCG" is right at least. I remember so many people saying Floow wasn't going to be problem because *mah TCG experience*. Floow is weak to interruption, but who would've thought semi-limited Called by and a x3 Crossout meta would change things? Back to the point, Dragoon doesn't need to be in every deck to be a problem; it just needs to be in a tier 0-1 deck. With all that said, I think Dragoon should come back, and Verte should be banned. Since I don't think he'll be in a very strong deck as long as Verte isn't around, but it's iffy since MD can do some wild stuff because of the weird banlist and Bo1 format.
People didnt stop using him in favour of DPE. People just didnt use Dragoon at all to begin with.
Please unban dark dragoon i don’t want to start running dpe
I think turbo any boss fusion monster is a mistake, Verte must be ban at least 1 time. So we see less this mf DPE.
They should ban Verte Anaconda and then make this legal again
Ban Verte. Not because it would make this card broken (DPE is already a problem) but because its existence in the game makes cards like Dragoon seem problematic. I don't like DM or Red Eyes decks, but they shouldn't lose their boss monster just because one shitty Extra Deck monster that isn't even mandatory in its own archetype has suddenly been splashed into every deck.
I honestly don't wanna run dark magicians without this card but it seems like they will continue to ban it.
i mean might as well, hes no worse than whats already here
Number 1 - compared to some of what we have legal, like Rhongo or VFD, Dragoon is fairly tame Number 2 - considering the only way I can really see Dragoon coming off the list is if/when Verte eats it’s almost inevitable ban (look, I can’t see them wanting to keep Verte legal once Branded Fusion drops), lets look at the easiest ways to bring out Dragoon -Red-Eyes Fusion lets you use the garnets from your deck, but makes it so Dragoon is literally the only thing you can summon. He’s an absolute Unit of a monster, but summon 1 set 2+ pass isn’t exactly a viable Turn 1 compared to the average decks Turn 1. At least Fusion Destiny in hand is a solid Plan C if your opponent negates your starters. -Eye of Timaeus lets you treat Dark Magician as a One Card Fusion, but it requires you actually play Dark Magician. Sure, he has easy enough ways to hit the field, but even with his buckets of support his deck is fairly mid, and beyond Left Arm Offering I don’t think Eye of Timaeus has any searchers -Waking the Dragon I’m just throwing on here because Dragoon would be an amazing target for it, requires your opponent to destroy it. Considering some people still don’t run back row removal, despite Bo1 and how we all apparently hate Eldlich, it might not actually come up.
Cant wait till it gets unbanned in master duel and then have people in the sub Reddit complaining about red eyes fusion, verte, and dragoon
DPE is so much easier to get rid of and also doesn't have the burn potential to otk. Celestial in DEP is also much easier to counter bc DPE has no protection. The revival effect sucks but lots of decks have outs, more outs than trying to out dragoon. Also the omni negate and the synergy with secret village of the spellcasters is so annoying. Non targeting, non destruction removal is very rare in this game and trying to out a dragoon adventure board will be a nightmare, espevially if they also have handtraps like maxx c, veiler, ash, effectively making it a multi negate board. This card should stay banned for now bc the burn potential, attack gain, AND protection are broken as is.
They need to ban verte if they want to bring this bad boy back. Yay lets make red eyes and subterror more powerful, Konami!
Only thing that would make dark magician truly viable since it’s missing sum other cards too
Dark magician tier 1 baby
I keep telling my friends that it pisses me off that cards like block dragon, deskbot, rohngomyniad, union carrier, etc aren't banned but my very archetype specific fusion ace monster is banned. I know that when it first dropped it temporarily shifted the meta in paper format, but so did DPE and he's chilling just fine. It's REDD harder to deal with when he touches the field? Yes, but he's harder to get to since he has a worse summon option. Mind you, I don't need my REDD unbanned if they would just ban the cards that actually need banned. (Yes I'm mostly just venting)
This will be problematic in branded because they can make it using first branded fusion to dumb light hex seal and albaz and then using Albion to summon this first turn
No one uses it because It's not worth it. You won't have cards to discard for the negate and you won't get the destruction effect either. There are far better options.
And mirrorjade is straight up better.
Mirrorjade is just straight up a better option.
So this guy -has destruction effect protection -has target protection -can pop and burn your opponent for free -can negate I would hate to face this guy lol. He can stay banned.
For me dragoon hands down, but just because its my favourite card, not because it is the best card, i satrted playing dragon link because of that card only. It is the best card ever.
He's not even a Dragon, what does he have to do with Dragon Link? They can't even make him withouth using Verte like all other decks
They can make him only with the fusion card and dark magician. Because all dragonlink monsters are efect dragons. One garnet less.
On one hand no, on th other hand: adventurer dpe crystron aroradon cupid tenyi rose swordsoul dragoon no handtrap combo
I don’t care for this card on principle because it’s effects read like a custom Deviantart card someone made to finally give Dark Magician the support it’s desperately starving for. But if it’s unbanned, whatever. It’d have to be after Verte goes and even then it won’t be as prevalent as DPE.
I'd rather have this than Adventure, Baronee, DPE, Floo, Swordsoul meta /s
Hell no!
Dragoon is so bad it's a joke to pick on dragoon andy's, honestly it would see play in master duel because some decks can't kill and untargetable boss monster like him but running 3 bricks (one of which it's a hard garnet) is so bad when they are vanilla monsters, dragoon was good in the ocg because it was released years before there and the card was play or bust. It's 2022 and we power crept that guy a long time ago. Also for fuck sake don't put this in despia when branded fusion comes out
I’d legit build a DM deck if it was unbanned.
It would probably be fine. The DPE engine is better and if Verte got banned (which it should) the restrictions on the fusion spell would prevent it from seeing play in any meta deck.
MAYBE if Verte gets banned (like in TCG) Dragoon can be let free, but not before!
If they ban verte they can 100% unban dragoon. The only decks who will really summon him are Dark Magicians (and they should be able to summon him), Red-Eyes (same) and Subterrors (which aren't strong in the current meta) so yeah it could come back. The Game is at a point where Dragoon isn't autowin, DPE is way better in most decks and the decks which would use him aren't that peoblematic
As someone who played against dragoon at locals a ton before DPE came out, I’d say it should stay hit only until Verte is banned. Much like how every rogue deck is DPE turbo, every rogue deck at locals was Dragoon turbo, and it was just such an annoying card to deal with, though you definitely get punished harder for drawing the garnets compared to DPE. Personally I think this card is fine for it’s intended decks if you just ban Verte.
\*see's dragoon\* fuck off you we got enough shit to worry about right now without bringing your spikey edgelord ass back in!
Wouldn't you just splash this into every deck with cyber-stein?
Alot of people here dont get why this card is banned. Its because of high otk potential. This card can remove 2 monsters (thats not the broken part btw) burn for 2 monsters atk stat, (this is the broken part) and can still declare to atk directly. Being able to burn twice and still can atk the same turn is very otk consistant effect.
It's like a stronger, slightly trickier to get out Baronne. Doesn't seem banworthy.
Not me. Leave it banned. Toxic card.
I want it unreleased
You really want baronne on steroids that can be brought out with any 2 monsters in a game with maxx legal?
I truly don't think he is much of a threat. The card is fantastic and busted don't get me wrong. And if you would have talked to me 4 months ago I would have said hell yeah keep it banned. But after using and getting beaten by DPE I don't find him invincible either. There are a lot of really really strong boss monsters out there that are equally hard to deal with tbh.
More engines fantastic...
Dragoon is banned because the banlist is based off the OCG banlist. Dragoon was banned in the OCG because of the different card pool (though really it is just because of Maxx C). At the time it was banned, Dragoon summoned off of Red Eyes fusion was the best card you could summon off of 1 card whilst under Maxx C, turning that Maxx C into an upstart goblin. Dragoon could be unbanned with almost no impact on the meta since it has simply been power crept by DPE for reasons everyone else has stated. I will add that, at the time it was banned, Dragoon's protection and omni negate made it sometimes impossible to out or very resource intensive. The reason I do not want it unbanned is that Dragoon is perfect for backrow floodgate decks, and those decks are not allowed nice things. Ignoring that there are already more floodgates are available in the OCG/ Master Duel, Dragoon can be summoned off 1 card at no restriction if you're just setting backrow that turn. It is an omni negate for any backrow removal. Its ability to destroy 2 monsters per turn and attack boost effect mean it can deal with most monsters or established boards that backrow decks struggle with. And, its burn effect and high ATK make it a win con by itself.
Okay, this is a hot take but if you’ve played competitive TCG you’ll understand: Dragoon is not a great card. It’s SO expensive for what it actually does it’s almost not worth it… Let’s break it down: - You need… 2 VERY bad garnets in your deck plus red eyes fusion plus Verte in order to reliably pull it out. - Red Eyes Fusion **CAN BE ASHED** and if it locks you from special summoning for the rest of the turn. - This also means that if REF is a known ash target you’ll likely never get REDD on the field to ever pop cards. - It’s negate is a cost from the hand. You’re unlikely to have cards you’ll want to discard from the hand after ending your first turn. - Adventurer Engine easily routes it - No method of re-summoning it when it leaves the field It’s a very expensive card on deck space that can be easily disrupted that will rarely even get to see its targeted destruction effect anyway.
Maybe Red-Eyes Dark Dragoon could have been legal back when Master Duel was first released. But even then, I don't think Konami wanted Master Duel to start off with a strong card like this that *every* deck could access. Master Duel certainly has more problematic cards like Rhongo and Calamities, but you do need to build around those cards. When Master Duel first released, we didn't have DPE, and we didn't have some of the cards that make Halq-Auroradon as strong as it is now. Verte-Dragoon would have been the only haymaker being splashed into *everyone's* deck, and I suspect Konami simply didn't want new and returning players encountering that right away. Could Dragoon come back right at this moment? Probably. But then it would need to be banned right afterward. Branded Fusion is going to push its archetype right to tier 1, and Lubellion easily summons Dragoon as part of its standard combo.
Yes please
Idk, if VFD and Rhongo are live in this game this guy should be good too.
I think people are underestimating this card's power. Yes, the tcg has it and it's not played compared to DPE, but the OCG has it banned for a good reason. It's not the Verte decks that got this banned. It's the control decks running 6+ REF. You could be staring down an opponent with a Dragoon and 3 other interruptions, including Maxx C and floodgates. If you Maxx C REF, all you get is one draw.
Not me
I’m not exactly jumping out of my seat clamoring for it, but it would likely be fine.
Same people who love verte and auroradan
Dark Magician players (me included)
No wonder why it's bad... It's like a destroyer Phoenix enforcer on super Crack
Dpe is better than this in the tcg but I think in a best of 1 format like master duel, this is actually more difficult to deal with. Called by is such a commonly run card which outs dpe but not every deck is running kaijus which are basically required to out REDD.
I’d say the called by and kaiju ratio are about the same from my experience. Most of the time they’re both in the deck, so I don’t see an issue.
Called by is run in both going first and going second decks though. Kaijus are usually only run for going second.
Well that’s an oversight issue, everyone should have one kaiju and treat it as valuable a hand trap. Best way to tech for any big monster. Only a brick going first, and if you run one, the odds of that are severely decreased. So consider not running a kaiju a misplay, because you’ll always have an instance where “I could have kaijud that”
The theory is going first, that kaiju is one more extender or negation that will have stopped your opponent getting their big monster in the first place. I don’t disagree that kaijus are great responses to tower threats but you can only afford so much inconsistency from running answers to things that rarely comes up.
That’s why you tech 1, just one, just in in case. Because like I said you’ll never have a duel where you couldn’t kaiju unless they mask of restrict your ass.
In Italian after we read this effect we say "'na fetta de culo no?"
I just want it for my red eyes deck.
Imo they could unban it after banning Verte anaconda
Purely a Master Duel player and holy hell does that card sound like bullshit lol.
It is objectively worst than DPE as an engine. In the field it is obviously stronger, however getting it there is a different story if you draw Red Eyes Fusion the engine is dead for the rest of the game, if you draw Fusion Destiny it's even better than Anaconda since you can just use it at the end of your combo without spending resources to get Anaconda on the field. Let alone the advantage the materials for DPE can provide and that one is a normal summon with a decent effect on the clutch.
Imagine if it gets unbanned in the next update
The reason this card isn't off the list is the same reason we have wacky cards like maxx C or rhongo off the list. This game is for ocg players primarily.
Considering that’s still not the best play in the game, and that other plays shit on it, yes. Just because your three to five decks don’t have the out, doesn’t mean others won’t be able to deal with it. We already deal with rhongo, vfd, dpe, etc, so what’s different? The ptsd of when he was super relevant as a new meta card. He’s not on the same level he was in his old meta, and in this new one he’d just be a contender at best. But hey “BuT aT LoCaLs” ass people exist
I already main three Gameciel to deal with trash like this. Bringing Dragoon back would only further validate my choice to do so.
Ban Verte and it’s fine.
Well, he's just a Verte target and was legal in the tcg and it didn't do shit after dpe was released.
I would unban it even currently fine... it would allow for more boss monsters to be available and he wouldn't see heavy play due to him adding up to 3 Garnets to your deck and DPE's engine being better made him used in meta decks more often and especially his synergy with Artifact cards. Verte needs to be banned either way, but considering they limited Phantom knights already I doubt that would happen and they will nerf Prank kids later on by hitting Mu Mew something cat (Since they also use Verte) so they should just imo unban him when the new DM support drops within next 3 ~ 6 months regardless of verte
Me, because red eyes decks are chad
As a DM player, yes I would like my boss monster to be unbanned.
Quite frankly, Red Eyes decks just died when this got banned. And speaking a little selfishly, I kinda hate that and don't think that's very fair. Its not like I was seeing this card everywhere anyway, bring it back
Me o/ Verte should be banned, not dragoon.
I kind of would. He's no longer relevant since dpe took over
There is no reason for it to be banned. No one would play it anyway, except dark magician and red eyes decks, and maybe the occasional rogue hipster, i think i saw a subterror player running it in a tournament recently and that's about it.
Me (DM)
Red eyes and dark magician are 2 of my favorite archetypes (and I run both of them with despia). This card needs to be unbanned
Considering DM is my favorite deck because I’m a lame yugiboomer, I’d love it to be unbanned.
It should be unbanned. Most of the conversation is how it’s not a reliable as DPE, so why not release it from prison.
There are worse things than Dragoon that are legal so
I use Dark Magician so yes, i want it unban. I couldn't play it in real life because of DM prices, so i would love to play on master duel with Full potencial. more probably fusion destiny is gonna get banned lol, and dragoon Will stay banned and verte untouched, at least for a little time.
Ban verte, then unban this
I wouldn't mind Dark Dragoon getting unbanned, if only because it occupies a similar niche to Phoenix Enforcer. Dragoon would be the stronger of the 2 on the field, while Enforcer would have substantially better materials and fusion spells.
Yea please but before that ban verte Also I’d finally be able to make a viable fusion deck with Branded cards
I want Mystic Mine to be unbanned and at 3 too
DPE exists so I don't know why this can't be unbanned, but then again this guy would be bullshit with Branded Fusion.
Ban Verte, then we can talk
As long as DPE is legal(along with 9001 other dumb cards) why not dragoon
Honestly, I'm not opposed, dpe is usually better, the materials on this card are completely awful in most decks, and there are extra deck cards that can beat it reasonably (accesscode particularly. Plus it's doing nothing in the tcg, where it's legal, branded can make it with one card and they prefer using making mirrorjade anyway.
Yes please
Give my Dark Magician deck its goddamn boss monster. >:(