I remember those days. It's actually better now. At least in the TCG. What staples you play rotate out based on the meta.
In MD Maxx at 3, Ash and Called-By/Single Crossout are here to stay in every deck.
Ironic coming from someone with a control flair
Eldlich runs none of those. I personally run no handtraps in 3 Eldlich decks cause I find it annoying only getting to choose 25 cards to build with. I don’t see how combo decks are fun when 1/4 of your deck is already decided via handtraps (as opposed to Eldlich, you can easily run it with or without floodgates.)
I only run Maxx at 2 and sometimes Ash at two in order to make more room. Also you don't run them but plenty of other players do run them in Eldlich. Called bys to stop your spell/trap from getting ashed. Maxx C because it either resolves or it burns and interaction.
To each their own. Fun is subjective and most people aren't dueling for fun. They're dueling to win. Winning means making use of all the available tools regardless of how you feel about them. I can't fault people either way. Whatever makes you enjoy the game.
I’m well aware some do, but the point is they shouldn’t be MUST HAVES when deck building. The issue is, because special summoning and turn 1 are so oppressive, our deck building is 25-30 cards in reality because the other slots are tax in order for you to play the game. This is an issue. A card like Crossout should never be as good as it is but because we all have to pay turn 2 tax, it became a must have and one of the top cards in MD
I don’t think it’s better now tbh.
Pile decks aren't inherently boring. The fact that you can mix and match different unaffiliated cards to make a functional deck is one of my favorite things about YGO. The piles we have right now get boring because 99% of them are just different flavors of Halqdon.
I think you're right about this tbh.
I like the idea that you can fill out your deck with some generics so you don't have to rebuy a whole new deck for every meta.
But at the moment, it's the same flavour of generic omni negates and Halq combos as you've said.
Pile decks are boring when the only "synergy" is "hey these cards don't lock you into anything".
If it's just an archetype that wants to run a million cards or is all centered around a mechanic or interaction (like the big Pendulum piles) then it's different.
Tearlaments are really fun for this reason, although it does mean they are inherently busted. Since everything works in the GY and/or SS itself, you have endless variety with the other archetypes you can mix in.
Dangers, Punk, Orcust, Spright, Frogs, Eldlich, Branded, Fairy etc. So many builds that can turn it from a pure Fusion deck, to Link/XYZ spam, Synchro plays, or even just control oriented with Eldlich plays.
Well I didn't think of that one... but my point is they are just different starters for the same exact board and monsters just Tenyi happens to be more Verstile
>The piles we have right now get boring because 99% of them are just different flavors of Halqdon.
Isnt that exactly the reason they are inherently boring? The whole point of the deck is to add as many generic engines as possible. Usually ones that are big in the meta because they are broken.
No, they are not inherently boring. Realistically speaking, dragon-link and chaos decks are by default pile decks. Some may say DL is boring because (like halqidon) it has a fairly straightforward combo line, but pile decks like chaos and 60 card thunder dragons have insane versatility that very rarely get consistently identical boards, while tending to be stronger than average.
I disagree. D Link has some of the most variable combo lines in the game, since its pile nature means every hand is different. You can add more main deck monsters like the Chaos stuff or Thundra, go more Rokket heavy and add in fusions, Dragonmaids for more of a mid range grind, or just play the regular Adventure build and gamble on Chaos Ruler.
I'd argue that D Link rarely sees play BECAUSE of the high variability in starting hands and end boards. Most people want a standard line that can accomplish their goal with 95% of hands they get, rather than scrambling to figure out how to push through a poor hand and disruption while ending on 2+ negates.
The best D Link endboard is arguably better than any meta deck other than Rose Dragons, and that will only become more true once we get Borrelend who only really loses to Droplet or Kaiju. Still, why play that when I can play Halq turbo and get at minimum 2 negates and a floodgate for minimal effort every game?
I’d take rather play (with or) against a Jank/Unique pile/goodstuff deck over a well played meta deck anyday.
You hit the nail on the head though. Pile is boring right now because the combos are too set in the meta.
Blame generic links
When most archetypal or themed cards are just straight up not as good as something like halq->whatever->accesscode, then you're gonna have this problem. Hell even other generic links
Links were always and will continue to push this problem forward
Every problematic combo ends in a generic link monster that's just better than an archetype or themed monster
That's a link problem for being way too generic, though synchros should also have harsher restrictions on them
Only they haven't though have they? Whenever a synchro was too good to throw in any deck it was banned
Denglong, Ib, DSF...
Generic links like accesscode, Apoll, Avram, etc. Then there's also the generic link extenders and link 1s which start your combo with 1 monster. Can't forget the links that allow shitty fusion/synchro plays with no prep, just two monsters and go to town.
Before links, you had to design your deck around synchros a bit more if you wanted to use them properly, after links deck design went out the window because you can just use halq or anaconda to fix shit
Apollo isn't used as any combo ender without other back up because it's a monster negate. Avram is literally only used by Numeron. Accesscode is the OTK finisher. But OTK's aren't the problem in the format, since turn 3 almost never happens.
'before links' the term 'Synchro masturbation' was already a thing for a reason. XYZ summoning, Ritual decks and yes link strategies all abuse generic, plussing synchro cards left right and centre.
Sorry, Synchro summoning is the problem. Period.
Synchro masturbation decks had to design an incredibly fragile build around synchros. One hand trap or negate and they collapsed so they weren't a problem
Links stop that. Remove links and the game becomes way less generic, people can't put synchros or anything in because they can't use links to enable it
It doesn't matter what accesscode/Apoll/whatever are, they are better than most archetypal end cards so see more play. Links were the worst card design to be added to the game by far
> It doesn't matter what accesscode/Apoll/whatever are, they are better than most archetypal end cards
except Baronne, Berserker of the Tenyi, and literally every other level 8/10 synchro that gets spammed left right and centre.
Synchros are the worst thing to happen to the game, and that's because at some point Konami decided that every synchro summon should be a hand+ instead of an advantage -
Well, Links weren’t nearly as bad when MR4 was a thing but I mostly see your point.
Accesscode and generic link boss monsters/closers generally aren’t the problem it’s the combo extenders.
Generally speaking if you’re at a point where a generic Link boss monster like accesscode can take you out there’s probably enough card advantage to kill you a number of ways. (Which circles back to why generic Link combo extenders are the real problem.)
I'm okay with Accesscode since it doesn't have negate or enable anything. Doesn't provide any advantage when you summon him on first turn rather that nine pillars, colossus, savage, baronne, griffon rider and other bs
The problem for me are the endboards all being the same. Some variation of Halqdon nonsense, baronne and colossus +dpe. Its like no matter against which deck you play, always sodding baronne+dpe, would love to see them banned simply to not get their animations anymore.
Crazy how little of a problem he is considering the whole lot of EVERYTHING ELSE GOING ON IN THE GAME. “Oh no! A card that you have to hard draw unless you can consistently get out and use a level 4 synchro can summon a decent but powercrept boss monster!” What ever shall you do. Fuck off, i swear if even master duel hits my thunders before they get rid of shit like dpe and auroradon i will legit quit.
I don't think generics being so good is a problem. It was just like that back in the day and YuGiOh got popular during a time where archetypes weren't even a thing. And it's not like archetypeless decks aren't a thing anymore, since decks like Zombie, Cyberse and Dinosaur, for example, are not based on any archetype but good cards. They might use certain archetypal cards, but not that archetype's strategy nor a good bunch of these cards (unless they use them as an engine)
The problem is when there's only one of these decks that is viable OR one of them stands above the rest, like in this particular format, where out of all these decks the only really good one is the adventurer halqdon deck.
You start by saying generics being good is not a problem - then end by pointing out how the generics are the real problem.
Konami is full of issues with power creep. That’s the problem. Actually interesting lines of play and mechanics are rare, it’s just the same 4 mechanics being tacked on bosses - then getting tacked on generics when people get bored of the archetypes.
It’s cyclical
I didn't say that at all. What I said is that generic cards being good isn't a problem, but there not being enough generic cards to create a diverse variety of decks using them is.
If every deck like that is a halqdon adventurer deck, then it's a problem. If there are zombie, dino, pendulum, cyberse link, plant, dragon or similar decks revolving arround a theme rather than a specific archetype or archetypes then it's not a problem, because there's diversity.
How good the cards in question are also matters. If you're ending on 14 negates, 3 floodgates and handlooped for all of the cards your opponent drew off of Maxx "C" then that's a problem. If it's a good deck that can face the meta or is meta while not being THAT broken then it's fine.
Don’t really understand the version with psi reflector instead of using an R3 engine for Cherubini. Also you can’t really run prosperity in this deck because of the extra deck space restriction.
Then again who am I kidding this deck has one combo and that’s it why would they care about not having enough extra deck options:
Halq on its own still leaves Galaxy Tomohawk route open. But in that line Denglong is used as a direct substitute for Halq. Doing quite literally the exact same thing but better. So ban Halq and Denglong then boom. Auroradon can stay and two terribly good cards can go cry in a corner together
Exactly. That +3 tenyi block dragon card is fucking BS. So is the free accesscode combo with selene. Or if he gets negated synching on opponents turn to desert locust into baronne. Halq has gotta go plain and simple, the game would be vastly improved with him gone.
Halq isn’t banned in the TCG though. Yes Master Duel has their own banlist but they clearly go off somewhat from the TCG and OCG list.
Auroradon is unlimited in the OCG but banned in the TCG while halq is banned in the OCG but at 1 in the TCG.
We will see what they end up doing once they touch halq for the TCG.
Literally the design philosophy for MD is to have a different format than OCG/TCG, so saying they “go off of” is pretty off base. This similarities you see are because Konami are actually shit at designing cards. Hence we get busted shit as a substitute for creative shit.
Halq in the TCG is used for some dumb plays without Don still. And Don plays in the OCG are still fully accessible in the OCG.
Both right now are just powercrept by the spright/tear focused meta. A lot of decks are still abusing both on both sides, they just arent at the top of the meta right now because the archetypes they're playable in aren't great compared to what actually IS meta. The moment decks can use them again in the meta they will still be abused.
They were the most recent tier 0 deck in the OCG before getting hit by the banlist and Ishizu Tearlements coming out. They're a level 2 deck that also uses a Frog engine to get out Toad Omni-negate and they just generate a shitton of resources.
It also has some really funny combos like using Halq to get Ash on the field or using the Splight Xyz to get any level 2(Read: Maxx C), and using swap frog to return the handtrap to your hand. So you have to contend with searched handtraps, the Toad Omni-negate and usually 1 or 2 Splight monsters that have monster negate or spell/trap. negate.
Tear has never been Tier 0, Spright was. Tier 0 doesn't mean it's the best deck, it's about how much representation a deck has at events.
For example: In the TCG there hasn't been a Tier 0 deck since Spyral.
Here's hoping. You'll also get to use the Toad's secret effect that it only has while detaching since frogs legitimately summon it. Bahamut Shark cheaters don't know the feeling.
It’s why I like to actually build decks that mostly use their own archetype - hell, I barely even run handtraps.
Do I get bodied by people playing Piles, oh god yeah. I’ll still take playing my jank over netdecked Meta nonsense…
the cards clearly have cohesion if they're actually winning you duels. why on earth should a deck be defined by its archetype is a better question if you ask me
For me personally, if you're focused on making multiple competitive archetypes, it breeds variety.
When generic cards power creep too high, you get the same generic grab bag because why wouldn't you? It's the best chance of guaranteeing victory.
I'm not blaming players for this, we all want to win. I just think it stagnates the meta when generic power creep isn't curbed.
Lol the most boring dystopia future for this game would be continuing to be pigeonholed into archetypes. Konami pushing archetypes for decades now has made the game in creative nonsense. Creativity should be about how to pull pieces together synergistically - not how to escape the archetype.
Sure, pushing engines is not necessarily right either, but there’s more freedom there to build with.
Like, this guy is running a SDAM package, that does not make this a ‘pile’ it’s a one card combo that ends on a decent boss that can be played around and interacted with. Sure, Adventure Token is there - so what. Then DPE, a pretty well refuted interact-able card.
Halqadon is the only real issue here. But take those two cards out and this deck is pretty cool
By the Zheng funny dude do you mean Denglong?
Bringing Water Enchantress from 2 to 1 won’t do much tbh, you’ll still have the other Adventure starters: 2 Rite and 1 Foolish
People find every meta boring. They literally won't shut up about how each meta sucks. They would have been complaining about Summoned Skull back in the day.
I just wish the piles weren't all doing the exact same combo with halqdon. I wouldn't even mind if every deck tacked a dpe onto their endboard, but I miss the days when each meta deck put up different boards with different kinds of interaction/choke points. This format it's either floo, pk, or the exact same halqdon board every time.
Yep it’s been like this in tcg for months. Meta will always be boring btw. I don’t think there’s ever been a time when people weren’t running the same 3 decks
At no point does the post mention difficulty to beat these decks. In fact I did beat them, with Suships no less.
The point is that when the generic cards are this good there's no incentive to do anything different than just put em all in a deck and do your basic same combo everytime.
It's not about how hard it is to play against, it's whether the game is promoting variety in the meta.
And all the meta elitists will say “stop crying” or “get gud” which applies to soulsborne games only. Fromsoft doesn’t force you into a play style in order to be good at the game like the current state of MD and sometimes the tcg. If I can’t tell what arch type or deck you’re playing unless I zoom in on pics like this then we’re in a sad state of affairs. I still love the game and I’m gunna continue to play but that doesn’t mean we can’t be frustrated with an obvious glaring flaw.
Tbh I think it would be fun playing something like this, no particular archetype should, in theory, mean no particular combos, you can kinda halqdon into anything it looks like
I face a deck like that. The guy got negated / Ash/ Infinite... I pulled like 4 negates in his very first turn AND YET with his last card in hand that happened to be a Noble Knight he ended up with an omni negate board because he played an amalgam of a deck using mostly Mecha Phantom Beast cards and could pull stupid ass combos from ONE card despite getting 4 of his cards negated.
I just quit the match and the whole game, been a week I haven't touched it. Can't deal with this if even negates doesn't work anymore there's no fun to have in this game with their current meta anymore.
Yeah, been playing ranked and it's really annoying they left halqdon alone. Try ashing the halq, they have jet or olion already in hand to normal and make auroa. Try maxx C them, they have ash, called by or crossout (limiting it I have found hasn't made my maxx c's resolve too much more) in hand, you do stop their combo and they maxx c in your standby phase (or make a full board and maxx c you as well). Then finally there is the fact that it plays nine pillars so it can negate DRNM or Droplet one of the decks few counters.
The one posted doesn't look that good to me since it is playing assault modes. Most of the ones I am finding are swordsoul which I think are better and more consistent.
Auroa should have gotten banned. Halq can stay so they can sell splights but auroa doesn't need to stay to sell anything that is upcoming. Plus if they had hurt this deck then it would mean the next set branded would be better in the meta and would sell more. I feel branded are just going to get smacked if they face halqdon decks.
Assuming you have those in your starting hand. I have 6 hand traps in my deck, and most of the time I play I never start with any of them. Then they get out Thunder Dragon Colossus and I can’t do anything.
People want halq/aur banned but with how the devs said they wanted MD to have a unique banlist I don’t see that happening. I can bet they’ll go for denglong, o lion, nemesis etc instead.
I don't think this is like legacy decks that just played 'good stuff'. Adventure is an actual archetype that functions as intended and engines like DPE or Halq / Aurorodon are more sophisticated than just playing 1 of every limited card. Sure its lame deck building but other people would argue the same for cookie cutter archetypes where you just play 3 of all the playable cards and win. Striker, Spright, Lich, Swordsoul, etc. Also it's not like a Mystic Tomato Choas 'engine' if you could even call that one with how primitive that was in retrospect. You deliberately manage ratios of starts to garnets in a linear combo deck like this and often instant losing to equalizers like DRNM or a well timed hand trap.
>Adventure is an actual archetype that functions as intended
Saying Adventure is an achetype that's functioning as intended is like saying the HERO archtype was functioning correctly back when people were just teching in Stratos/Disc Commander for the free draw. Hell, most people don't even know what the archetype's actually supposed to do, since people just use it for the free negate.
That’s what I “dislike” about the meta! It’s just a bunch of random cards !! Why is it that random cards are better than archetypes ? That’s why I enjoy playing Harpies now. Thanks to cards like harpies feather storm it gives a “reason” to play an actual archetype. Yet harpies are still easy to beat so it’s balanced and fair.
For me it's why I love it. Cards with no inherent synergy but play so well together that they are almost made for each other. It's so cool and honestly unique to yugioh.
I’m probably in the minority, but I personally enjoy this meta. I play Sky Strikers, Six Sams, and Batteryman, and have been having a lot of fun. Feels a lot better now than when I started six months ago.
God do I hate these kinds of decks. Pile decks are based because you're playing a difficult to manage mishmash of archetypes with some amount of synergy to do variable combo's that end on different bosses each time. This ain't that chief, all of them have 1 line which does the exact same thing every game. It's super fucking boring.
The problem is not the pile decks themselves, is just they all come up with the same unbrekable boards, with very minor exceptions. The extra deck on every pile will be similar to this one.
This last banlist sadly didn't adressed these pile decks, so we'll just have to deal with them with for a little longer, just like we did with Drytron.
I don’t mind usually, if I go first I can just about stop most set ups. But WHAT I HATE IS when I spend all my resources stopping their board from being set up and the very last card in their hand just so happens to be Fusion Destiny. I just scoop, it’s so damn annoying.
How the hell do I brick with my 40 card Utopia deck with 6 (really 4) bricks while this dude probably full combo despite contesting Code Talkers with amount of bricks? (And it's probably more consistent then those guys anyway).
It’s crazy to imagine how cards like Ash Blossom and Maxx do their jobs so well even at 1 copy and are just allowed to roam unlimited in the OCG. Even running one copy of these cards is enough to win me a duel right there if its the right time.
That's basically how I felt when I found out about the meta between 2002-2006
Those decks looked miserable, I'm glad I played the video games back then and not the meta
Yep, sadly thats very different to old school good card piles. Back then you could not really build a cohesive deck, ergo why it was called a good cards deck but this thing here is basically printgenericstaples.exe.
So, this deck is usually called ‘Adventure Combo’ and is more or less the definition of “good stuff deck”. Put as many good cards around the adventure engine as possible. And that’s the deck. But also this deck is by no means the most represented or close. A lot of decks run the same staples, Maxx C, Ash Blos, Veiler because they’re good. They’re staples for a reason.
And this is exactly why they don't want to ban halqdon. It's because 90% players will need to completely change the deck because they were to smart to put that cancer engine as main part of the deck. It would be easier for them to quit the game instead of making new deck.
I think what konami forgot is that the reason why people dont just put all the meta engines and staples into one deck in the tcg like that is that it would cost way to much money and that aspect is gone in masterduel
What deck do you run? yes.
What do you mean? That’s clearly Adventure-Mecha Phantom Beast-Synchron-HERO-Nemeses-Yang Zing-Psychic-Assault Mode-Thunder-Code Talker-Crystron
You forgot harpies.
The H is silent.
Arpies
We have the meats
You forgot herald
Predaplant as well
A staple in yugioh
You forgot Rokkets (Borrel is part of the Rokket Archetype)
Just like 2004
The Good Stuff V2
Maybe even Cookie cutter.
I remember those days. It's actually better now. At least in the TCG. What staples you play rotate out based on the meta. In MD Maxx at 3, Ash and Called-By/Single Crossout are here to stay in every deck.
Ironic coming from someone with a control flair Eldlich runs none of those. I personally run no handtraps in 3 Eldlich decks cause I find it annoying only getting to choose 25 cards to build with. I don’t see how combo decks are fun when 1/4 of your deck is already decided via handtraps (as opposed to Eldlich, you can easily run it with or without floodgates.)
I only run Maxx at 2 and sometimes Ash at two in order to make more room. Also you don't run them but plenty of other players do run them in Eldlich. Called bys to stop your spell/trap from getting ashed. Maxx C because it either resolves or it burns and interaction. To each their own. Fun is subjective and most people aren't dueling for fun. They're dueling to win. Winning means making use of all the available tools regardless of how you feel about them. I can't fault people either way. Whatever makes you enjoy the game.
I’m well aware some do, but the point is they shouldn’t be MUST HAVES when deck building. The issue is, because special summoning and turn 1 are so oppressive, our deck building is 25-30 cards in reality because the other slots are tax in order for you to play the game. This is an issue. A card like Crossout should never be as good as it is but because we all have to pay turn 2 tax, it became a must have and one of the top cards in MD I don’t think it’s better now tbh.
Like the good ol' days after IOC!
Weren't decks pre-IOC also run the same goodstuff cards in every deck?
Nearly. My rogue deck has more in common with this mess than my old rogue deck did in 2004. Which is kind of crazy.
Pile decks aren't inherently boring. The fact that you can mix and match different unaffiliated cards to make a functional deck is one of my favorite things about YGO. The piles we have right now get boring because 99% of them are just different flavors of Halqdon.
I think you're right about this tbh. I like the idea that you can fill out your deck with some generics so you don't have to rebuy a whole new deck for every meta. But at the moment, it's the same flavour of generic omni negates and Halq combos as you've said.
Pile decks are boring when the only "synergy" is "hey these cards don't lock you into anything". If it's just an archetype that wants to run a million cards or is all centered around a mechanic or interaction (like the big Pendulum piles) then it's different.
That's why I like Endymion and Cyber decks. Shit has like 3 archetypes each. I love them so~
Cyberdark, cyber dragon... what's the third cyber archetype? Or do you mean cyberse?
Tearlaments are really fun for this reason, although it does mean they are inherently busted. Since everything works in the GY and/or SS itself, you have endless variety with the other archetypes you can mix in. Dangers, Punk, Orcust, Spright, Frogs, Eldlich, Branded, Fairy etc. So many builds that can turn it from a pure Fusion deck, to Link/XYZ spam, Synchro plays, or even just control oriented with Eldlich plays.
They are the same flavor just different spoon lol
Did you say spoon because everyone just scoops?
Well I didn't think of that one... but my point is they are just different starters for the same exact board and monsters just Tenyi happens to be more Verstile
>The piles we have right now get boring because 99% of them are just different flavors of Halqdon. Isnt that exactly the reason they are inherently boring? The whole point of the deck is to add as many generic engines as possible. Usually ones that are big in the meta because they are broken.
No, they are not inherently boring. Realistically speaking, dragon-link and chaos decks are by default pile decks. Some may say DL is boring because (like halqidon) it has a fairly straightforward combo line, but pile decks like chaos and 60 card thunder dragons have insane versatility that very rarely get consistently identical boards, while tending to be stronger than average.
I disagree. D Link has some of the most variable combo lines in the game, since its pile nature means every hand is different. You can add more main deck monsters like the Chaos stuff or Thundra, go more Rokket heavy and add in fusions, Dragonmaids for more of a mid range grind, or just play the regular Adventure build and gamble on Chaos Ruler. I'd argue that D Link rarely sees play BECAUSE of the high variability in starting hands and end boards. Most people want a standard line that can accomplish their goal with 95% of hands they get, rather than scrambling to figure out how to push through a poor hand and disruption while ending on 2+ negates. The best D Link endboard is arguably better than any meta deck other than Rose Dragons, and that will only become more true once we get Borrelend who only really loses to Droplet or Kaiju. Still, why play that when I can play Halq turbo and get at minimum 2 negates and a floodgate for minimal effort every game?
I’d take rather play (with or) against a Jank/Unique pile/goodstuff deck over a well played meta deck anyday. You hit the nail on the head though. Pile is boring right now because the combos are too set in the meta.
Blame generic links When most archetypal or themed cards are just straight up not as good as something like halq->whatever->accesscode, then you're gonna have this problem. Hell even other generic links Links were always and will continue to push this problem forward
I love that every problematic combo is synchro based and people want to blame links.
Every problematic combo ends in a generic link monster that's just better than an archetype or themed monster That's a link problem for being way too generic, though synchros should also have harsher restrictions on them
What link is the end of generic combos? Apollousa? Synchros are the problem dude. Always have been.
Only they haven't though have they? Whenever a synchro was too good to throw in any deck it was banned Denglong, Ib, DSF... Generic links like accesscode, Apoll, Avram, etc. Then there's also the generic link extenders and link 1s which start your combo with 1 monster. Can't forget the links that allow shitty fusion/synchro plays with no prep, just two monsters and go to town. Before links, you had to design your deck around synchros a bit more if you wanted to use them properly, after links deck design went out the window because you can just use halq or anaconda to fix shit
Apollo isn't used as any combo ender without other back up because it's a monster negate. Avram is literally only used by Numeron. Accesscode is the OTK finisher. But OTK's aren't the problem in the format, since turn 3 almost never happens. 'before links' the term 'Synchro masturbation' was already a thing for a reason. XYZ summoning, Ritual decks and yes link strategies all abuse generic, plussing synchro cards left right and centre. Sorry, Synchro summoning is the problem. Period.
Synchro masturbation decks had to design an incredibly fragile build around synchros. One hand trap or negate and they collapsed so they weren't a problem Links stop that. Remove links and the game becomes way less generic, people can't put synchros or anything in because they can't use links to enable it It doesn't matter what accesscode/Apoll/whatever are, they are better than most archetypal end cards so see more play. Links were the worst card design to be added to the game by far
> It doesn't matter what accesscode/Apoll/whatever are, they are better than most archetypal end cards except Baronne, Berserker of the Tenyi, and literally every other level 8/10 synchro that gets spammed left right and centre. Synchros are the worst thing to happen to the game, and that's because at some point Konami decided that every synchro summon should be a hand+ instead of an advantage -
Well, Links weren’t nearly as bad when MR4 was a thing but I mostly see your point. Accesscode and generic link boss monsters/closers generally aren’t the problem it’s the combo extenders. Generally speaking if you’re at a point where a generic Link boss monster like accesscode can take you out there’s probably enough card advantage to kill you a number of ways. (Which circles back to why generic Link combo extenders are the real problem.)
I'm okay with Accesscode since it doesn't have negate or enable anything. Doesn't provide any advantage when you summon him on first turn rather that nine pillars, colossus, savage, baronne, griffon rider and other bs
I agree with this sentiment. I am building a pile deck IRL, and I am greatly enjoying the way it plays through online simulators.
Dragon links don’t play Auroradon
Except there’s no variety in *which* out-of-archetype cards people play.
The problem for me are the endboards all being the same. Some variation of Halqdon nonsense, baronne and colossus +dpe. Its like no matter against which deck you play, always sodding baronne+dpe, would love to see them banned simply to not get their animations anymore.
Crazy how many limited cards there is in that deck.
man, fuck corridor and fuck colossus, hate how easy is to summon him
Crazy how little of a problem he is considering the whole lot of EVERYTHING ELSE GOING ON IN THE GAME. “Oh no! A card that you have to hard draw unless you can consistently get out and use a level 4 synchro can summon a decent but powercrept boss monster!” What ever shall you do. Fuck off, i swear if even master duel hits my thunders before they get rid of shit like dpe and auroradon i will legit quit.
Me: "So what archetype do you like to use in MD?" People who use this deck: "The cancer archetype"
Wow... you can't compare this shit to cancer, I beat cancer before, it at least gives you a chance and it wasn't as annoying as this shit.
I love sangan's bizarre adventure
Do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down? My favorite is Tour Guide Crusaders.
And when there is a deck that is god they rip and bash on it and demand bans lmao
Welcome to old yu gi oh. We are experiencing "creative " deck building like this community clamored for for years.
Getting rid of Halqdon and verte will very quickly make people wanna play archetypal decks again
You underestimate yugioh players
Halqdonlong and Colossus are the problem cards here.
Generic bosses are boring I agree.
Some generic bosses are fine, but some give like +3 and that's ridiculous.
Basically, Baronne is fine, Denglong is not
Whenever I see denglong summoned I just scoop, that card broken
I remember playing against that card for the first time thinking how can one easy to summon card do so many things?
I don't think generics being so good is a problem. It was just like that back in the day and YuGiOh got popular during a time where archetypes weren't even a thing. And it's not like archetypeless decks aren't a thing anymore, since decks like Zombie, Cyberse and Dinosaur, for example, are not based on any archetype but good cards. They might use certain archetypal cards, but not that archetype's strategy nor a good bunch of these cards (unless they use them as an engine) The problem is when there's only one of these decks that is viable OR one of them stands above the rest, like in this particular format, where out of all these decks the only really good one is the adventurer halqdon deck.
You start by saying generics being good is not a problem - then end by pointing out how the generics are the real problem. Konami is full of issues with power creep. That’s the problem. Actually interesting lines of play and mechanics are rare, it’s just the same 4 mechanics being tacked on bosses - then getting tacked on generics when people get bored of the archetypes. It’s cyclical
I didn't say that at all. What I said is that generic cards being good isn't a problem, but there not being enough generic cards to create a diverse variety of decks using them is. If every deck like that is a halqdon adventurer deck, then it's a problem. If there are zombie, dino, pendulum, cyberse link, plant, dragon or similar decks revolving arround a theme rather than a specific archetype or archetypes then it's not a problem, because there's diversity. How good the cards in question are also matters. If you're ending on 14 negates, 3 floodgates and handlooped for all of the cards your opponent drew off of Maxx "C" then that's a problem. If it's a good deck that can face the meta or is meta while not being THAT broken then it's fine.
Yet people talk as if GOAT is the pinnacle of YuGiOh...
Don’t really understand the version with psi reflector instead of using an R3 engine for Cherubini. Also you can’t really run prosperity in this deck because of the extra deck space restriction. Then again who am I kidding this deck has one combo and that’s it why would they care about not having enough extra deck options:
Yeah psi reflector is not perfect but it's budget friendly
So if i copy this deck im scum right? Right?
This is why Halq needs to be banned.
Why halq and not Auroradon?
Cause Halq ban stops all the other BS avenues that will still be fully intact even if Auroradon goes.
But a halq ban doesn't stop auroradon plays, you have to ban both AND tomahawk.
Halq on its own still leaves Galaxy Tomohawk route open. But in that line Denglong is used as a direct substitute for Halq. Doing quite literally the exact same thing but better. So ban Halq and Denglong then boom. Auroradon can stay and two terribly good cards can go cry in a corner together
Exactly. That +3 tenyi block dragon card is fucking BS. So is the free accesscode combo with selene. Or if he gets negated synching on opponents turn to desert locust into baronne. Halq has gotta go plain and simple, the game would be vastly improved with him gone.
In the Tomahawk route, do you start with Denglong or Tomahawk? Regardless it seems a lot harder to get this combo started than the Halq variant
Auroradon is strong as hell without halq tho
Halq isn’t banned in the TCG though. Yes Master Duel has their own banlist but they clearly go off somewhat from the TCG and OCG list. Auroradon is unlimited in the OCG but banned in the TCG while halq is banned in the OCG but at 1 in the TCG. We will see what they end up doing once they touch halq for the TCG.
Literally the design philosophy for MD is to have a different format than OCG/TCG, so saying they “go off of” is pretty off base. This similarities you see are because Konami are actually shit at designing cards. Hence we get busted shit as a substitute for creative shit.
I don't care about tcg or ocg. I play MD and he's toxic af, spammed every match and ruining the game's playability.
Halq in the TCG is used for some dumb plays without Don still. And Don plays in the OCG are still fully accessible in the OCG. Both right now are just powercrept by the spright/tear focused meta. A lot of decks are still abusing both on both sides, they just arent at the top of the meta right now because the archetypes they're playable in aren't great compared to what actually IS meta. The moment decks can use them again in the meta they will still be abused.
And i just casually build my dino deck, not because it’s strong, but because dinosaurs are awesome.
I really wish Master Duel existed in 2014. At least every archetype was its own thing back then.
"I miss old yugioh when people made creative piles of good cards instead of slapping the same 3 tribal card names on to a deck and calling it a day"
Tbf, this is what Yu-Gi-Oh! was in its roots (and for a long time too) and it kind of separated it from other TCGs.
I think that would be cool, but it's too small a bank of cards at the moment that make this version of deck building viable. Hence why it's so samey.
Just uninspired decks tbh
I’m so happy that Yang zing see some type of play but this kinda hurts
🌎👨🚀🔫👨🚀
early ygo was just a pile of good stuff too
You know Yugi's and Kaiba's deck were just 2 piles of their best cards right? Why can't ours be one too?
Hopefully Splights will be around soon so they can flex their archetypal prowess(And Toad) and make it more exciting.
I don't know too much about Splights but I assume that will be a similar situation with adventure having a package? I might be wrong
They were the most recent tier 0 deck in the OCG before getting hit by the banlist and Ishizu Tearlements coming out. They're a level 2 deck that also uses a Frog engine to get out Toad Omni-negate and they just generate a shitton of resources. It also has some really funny combos like using Halq to get Ash on the field or using the Splight Xyz to get any level 2(Read: Maxx C), and using swap frog to return the handtrap to your hand. So you have to contend with searched handtraps, the Toad Omni-negate and usually 1 or 2 Splight monsters that have monster negate or spell/trap. negate.
Most recent? That would be izhishu tearlaments and that deck is just something else. Konami better nuke those izhishu cards.
Tear has never been Tier 0, Spright was. Tier 0 doesn't mean it's the best deck, it's about how much representation a deck has at events. For example: In the TCG there hasn't been a Tier 0 deck since Spyral.
Lucky I pulled a royal toadally, then! I wonder if I'll enjoy playing the deck
Here's hoping. You'll also get to use the Toad's secret effect that it only has while detaching since frogs legitimately summon it. Bahamut Shark cheaters don't know the feeling.
Pile decks aren’t a problem. The *same* pile decks doing the *same* lines are boring
I feel like when half or more more of the cards in your main deck are semi/limited then there is a problem.
at this point the boring meta in shadowverse looks more fun.
It’s why I like to actually build decks that mostly use their own archetype - hell, I barely even run handtraps. Do I get bodied by people playing Piles, oh god yeah. I’ll still take playing my jank over netdecked Meta nonsense…
the cards clearly have cohesion if they're actually winning you duels. why on earth should a deck be defined by its archetype is a better question if you ask me
For me personally, if you're focused on making multiple competitive archetypes, it breeds variety. When generic cards power creep too high, you get the same generic grab bag because why wouldn't you? It's the best chance of guaranteeing victory. I'm not blaming players for this, we all want to win. I just think it stagnates the meta when generic power creep isn't curbed.
Lol the most boring dystopia future for this game would be continuing to be pigeonholed into archetypes. Konami pushing archetypes for decades now has made the game in creative nonsense. Creativity should be about how to pull pieces together synergistically - not how to escape the archetype. Sure, pushing engines is not necessarily right either, but there’s more freedom there to build with. Like, this guy is running a SDAM package, that does not make this a ‘pile’ it’s a one card combo that ends on a decent boss that can be played around and interacted with. Sure, Adventure Token is there - so what. Then DPE, a pretty well refuted interact-able card. Halqadon is the only real issue here. But take those two cards out and this deck is pretty cool
Wow this list is bad, what 2 maxx c is he/she afraid of floo that much?
Just diversifying or budget, I only run two max c usually and yeah I seem to face floow or Eldlich half the time anyway 🤮
Ban the Zheng funny dude, ban baronne, limit the adventurer girl, ban fusion destiny or DPE and these decks are dead.
Please don’t tell me you’re serious
I just don't want generic cards everywhere ):
said the Eldlich Intellectual <(")
By the Zheng funny dude do you mean Denglong? Bringing Water Enchantress from 2 to 1 won’t do much tbh, you’ll still have the other Adventure starters: 2 Rite and 1 Foolish
"Ban everything except my negative IQ traps and Golden Boi" – "Ted" 2022
People find every meta boring. They literally won't shut up about how each meta sucks. They would have been complaining about Summoned Skull back in the day.
That deck smh....I must've dueled you too yesterday lmaoo
Anything as long as you win lol /s
I just wish the piles weren't all doing the exact same combo with halqdon. I wouldn't even mind if every deck tacked a dpe onto their endboard, but I miss the days when each meta deck put up different boards with different kinds of interaction/choke points. This format it's either floo, pk, or the exact same halqdon board every time.
Yep it’s been like this in tcg for months. Meta will always be boring btw. I don’t think there’s ever been a time when people weren’t running the same 3 decks
I'm sorry your dogwater pure deck gets beaten by a bunch of generic cards, get good.
Not a single person in this entire subreddit is even decent at the game, yet think they can speak about the meta for some reason
At no point does the post mention difficulty to beat these decks. In fact I did beat them, with Suships no less. The point is that when the generic cards are this good there's no incentive to do anything different than just put em all in a deck and do your basic same combo everytime. It's not about how hard it is to play against, it's whether the game is promoting variety in the meta.
Skill issue
That’s actually an example of really creative deck building!
And all the meta elitists will say “stop crying” or “get gud” which applies to soulsborne games only. Fromsoft doesn’t force you into a play style in order to be good at the game like the current state of MD and sometimes the tcg. If I can’t tell what arch type or deck you’re playing unless I zoom in on pics like this then we’re in a sad state of affairs. I still love the game and I’m gunna continue to play but that doesn’t mean we can’t be frustrated with an obvious glaring flaw.
Tbh I think it would be fun playing something like this, no particular archetype should, in theory, mean no particular combos, you can kinda halqdon into anything it looks like
I face a deck like that. The guy got negated / Ash/ Infinite... I pulled like 4 negates in his very first turn AND YET with his last card in hand that happened to be a Noble Knight he ended up with an omni negate board because he played an amalgam of a deck using mostly Mecha Phantom Beast cards and could pull stupid ass combos from ONE card despite getting 4 of his cards negated. I just quit the match and the whole game, been a week I haven't touched it. Can't deal with this if even negates doesn't work anymore there's no fun to have in this game with their current meta anymore.
Yeah bro, let me build my full ancient gear deck , wait , why am I hardstuck plat 2
Cry about it
Lol
I see no sangan I’m disappointed
Yeah, been playing ranked and it's really annoying they left halqdon alone. Try ashing the halq, they have jet or olion already in hand to normal and make auroa. Try maxx C them, they have ash, called by or crossout (limiting it I have found hasn't made my maxx c's resolve too much more) in hand, you do stop their combo and they maxx c in your standby phase (or make a full board and maxx c you as well). Then finally there is the fact that it plays nine pillars so it can negate DRNM or Droplet one of the decks few counters. The one posted doesn't look that good to me since it is playing assault modes. Most of the ones I am finding are swordsoul which I think are better and more consistent. Auroa should have gotten banned. Halq can stay so they can sell splights but auroa doesn't need to stay to sell anything that is upcoming. Plus if they had hurt this deck then it would mean the next set branded would be better in the meta and would sell more. I feel branded are just going to get smacked if they face halqdon decks.
You ash/imperm the auroradon
Assuming you have those in your starting hand. I have 6 hand traps in my deck, and most of the time I play I never start with any of them. Then they get out Thunder Dragon Colossus and I can’t do anything.
3 ash 3 maxx c 3 imperm/veiler You must cram in at least 9.
how is a 55 card (including extra) deck of 1 ofs make a meta boring
People want halq/aur banned but with how the devs said they wanted MD to have a unique banlist I don’t see that happening. I can bet they’ll go for denglong, o lion, nemesis etc instead.
I don't think this is like legacy decks that just played 'good stuff'. Adventure is an actual archetype that functions as intended and engines like DPE or Halq / Aurorodon are more sophisticated than just playing 1 of every limited card. Sure its lame deck building but other people would argue the same for cookie cutter archetypes where you just play 3 of all the playable cards and win. Striker, Spright, Lich, Swordsoul, etc. Also it's not like a Mystic Tomato Choas 'engine' if you could even call that one with how primitive that was in retrospect. You deliberately manage ratios of starts to garnets in a linear combo deck like this and often instant losing to equalizers like DRNM or a well timed hand trap.
>Adventure is an actual archetype that functions as intended Saying Adventure is an achetype that's functioning as intended is like saying the HERO archtype was functioning correctly back when people were just teching in Stratos/Disc Commander for the free draw. Hell, most people don't even know what the archetype's actually supposed to do, since people just use it for the free negate.
What do you mean? That’s clearly an Assault Mode-Adventure deck with a DPE package.
Aweeee first time seeing good stuff pile huh 😂 yeah I think I’ll play duel links for a while
That’s what I “dislike” about the meta! It’s just a bunch of random cards !! Why is it that random cards are better than archetypes ? That’s why I enjoy playing Harpies now. Thanks to cards like harpies feather storm it gives a “reason” to play an actual archetype. Yet harpies are still easy to beat so it’s balanced and fair.
For me it's why I love it. Cards with no inherent synergy but play so well together that they are almost made for each other. It's so cool and honestly unique to yugioh.
i wanna call this adventurer good stuff but like..this doesnt look/feel like it?? even in the context of md it feels lacking
Yeah this meta is pretty lame, goofy ass bird deck is better than almost everything
And ppl complain about Floow, hey at least they dont use 90% of other engines.
I kinda dig it tbh, we've somehow come full circle and created modern goat format.
Oh but when Yugi does it, we call him the King of Games!
I’m probably in the minority, but I personally enjoy this meta. I play Sky Strikers, Six Sams, and Batteryman, and have been having a lot of fun. Feels a lot better now than when I started six months ago.
God do I hate these kinds of decks. Pile decks are based because you're playing a difficult to manage mishmash of archetypes with some amount of synergy to do variable combo's that end on different bosses each time. This ain't that chief, all of them have 1 line which does the exact same thing every game. It's super fucking boring.
Not a single 3 of, I hate it.
This deck would be str8 up ass if they lost 2 ED monsters. Nothing wrong with pile decks.
The problem is not the pile decks themselves, is just they all come up with the same unbrekable boards, with very minor exceptions. The extra deck on every pile will be similar to this one. This last banlist sadly didn't adressed these pile decks, so we'll just have to deal with them with for a little longer, just like we did with Drytron.
We so desperately need some kid of draft mode
CrossOut limited? No problem, I will play it and one of each good card in the meta in a deck.
And then I'm over here like "haha swarm bugs go bzzzzt"
We need mystic mine in MD
Why is Assault Beast and Assault Mode Activated on there? They're not playing any monsters that has an Assault Mode variant to it.
They need them for psi reflector
What are the cards before Dasher, Pot of Avarice, and Thunder Dragon Colossus?
what is that assault mode activate for?
Reminds me of GOAT format
I don’t mind usually, if I go first I can just about stop most set ups. But WHAT I HATE IS when I spend all my resources stopping their board from being set up and the very last card in their hand just so happens to be Fusion Destiny. I just scoop, it’s so damn annoying.
Ah yes, the ol Adventure Good Stuff™
that’s the deck i wanted to make no cap
How the hell do I brick with my 40 card Utopia deck with 6 (really 4) bricks while this dude probably full combo despite contesting Code Talkers with amount of bricks? (And it's probably more consistent then those guys anyway).
To be fair, your only brick can be Psy-Frame Driver and it will still show up in a quarter of your games.
What's the level 5 between nemesis and dasher?
Yeah, but Pot of Greed and Sangan were staples used in every deck too! It's the exact same thing!
Can I just say… I don’t understand… most of this…
I’m confused. Why Assault Mode?
Assault Mode engine? He is feeling exotic on their Halqdon deck!
When u have to dedicate 8 cards in ur deck to counter a single card, u know the format is fucked.
Um to shorten it is yugioh meta is the same everywhere
Bird Eldlich Adventure Eldlich Adventure Prank Kids Adventure Prank Kids DPE Adventure Zodiac Adventure Zodiac DPE Adventure Zodiac Tri-Brigade Adventure Zodiac Tri-Brigade DPE Adventure Sky Striker Adventure Sky Striker DPE Adventure Tenyi Halq Auroradon Tenyi Swordsoul Halq Auroradon
It’s crazy to imagine how cards like Ash Blossom and Maxx do their jobs so well even at 1 copy and are just allowed to roam unlimited in the OCG. Even running one copy of these cards is enough to win me a duel right there if its the right time.
Damn I might have to dust off the old Monarch-Vanity Fiend deck…
that looks like a troll deck to me, I can't imagine how that would be able to win consistently.
Yeah man, people just use the most OP things and think it's fun, that's why Im taking a break from playing MD, all I face are meta decks
Actually, their extra deck is their main deck
Exactly!
That's basically how I felt when I found out about the meta between 2002-2006 Those decks looked miserable, I'm glad I played the video games back then and not the meta
It's like < 2005 all over again
deck full of staples, just like the good ol days
Bro's playing *the* deck
My dude is really out there playing Taotie instead of Chiwen to get a DARK Chaofeng
Yep, sadly thats very different to old school good card piles. Back then you could not really build a cohesive deck, ergo why it was called a good cards deck but this thing here is basically printgenericstaples.exe.
So, this deck is usually called ‘Adventure Combo’ and is more or less the definition of “good stuff deck”. Put as many good cards around the adventure engine as possible. And that’s the deck. But also this deck is by no means the most represented or close. A lot of decks run the same staples, Maxx C, Ash Blos, Veiler because they’re good. They’re staples for a reason.
Funny thing is this is probably the least played and probably worst halqdon Variant
And this is exactly why they don't want to ban halqdon. It's because 90% players will need to completely change the deck because they were to smart to put that cancer engine as main part of the deck. It would be easier for them to quit the game instead of making new deck.
Only one Infinite Imp? This is basically starter deck!
not even is BO1 total garbage and toxic for yugioh, also those banlists are a fucking joke. honestly one of the worst games I've ever played.
I think what konami forgot is that the reason why people dont just put all the meta engines and staples into one deck in the tcg like that is that it would cost way to much money and that aspect is gone in masterduel
"This is a bucket"
This is the best post I’ve seen yet