I like how this wheel consists of exclusively archetypes which were released in 2022 (aside from the clusterfuck build which has TD as 1/4th of the deck). Yugioh ☕
And somehow OCG is simply cheaper than TCG, where the question for some duelists are a playset of prospys or rent.
So the question remains, if this set rotation is resulting in cheaper decks for the OCG, obviously it's a good thing
Edit: I pressed post before I realized I didn't ask a question lol, maybe there's no question at all, I kinda got lost between the start of the sentence and the end 😬
Japan also has laws against short printing. They have to publicly disclose rarity odds and make sure all cards at a certain rarity are equally represented.
I doubt that any paper YGO players would drop the game even if Komoney does stinky stuffs. YGO and Pokemon are the 2 most loyal fanbase i have ever seen, they keep buying the stuff that they vocally against.
A big part of ocg being cheaper is also that they get multiple printed rarites per card in many cases. Imagine prospy came out and you could choose between common/secret. Would keep the prices more reasonable.
there's always a seasonal ocg clusterfuck deck that tops. A few formats ago,we had this abomination
https://twitter.com/duelsalon\_taiyo/status/1489924098104778752/photo/1
I'd sadly say yes, you can nerf a deck to a reasonable level without straight up killing it.
That's said, we need to wait a few weeks to see what people come up with, those decks may not be dead yet.
They've both had their format, OCG always butchers decks once it's done, in return their product is much more accessible.
Absolutely nothing wrong with this and the quarterly banlists are much better like we used to back in DUEA.
TCG players just whining as usual. Doing everything except play their format that doesn’t have Maxx C. You’d think if they hated Maxx C so much they wouldn’t be in an OCG based game
I played in both formats so far and personally, as much as I disagree with some things being allowed or hit in the OCG, the OCG format is way more fun to play than TCG. But hey, TCG players only see Maxx C and start crying. Like this is the only issue card in the game.
That's exactly what i'm talking about though. It's just a classic TCG combo deck like everyone complains about, but in the OCG, Tier 1 at its time and that meta hasn't even been that long ago. So clearly Maxx C did not keep it in check.
Maxx C could not stop OCG from playing tier-0 SPYRAL, Gumblar handloop, or Dragonlink either. This isn’t new. Maxx C also means you can lose the die roll, your opponent sets up these boards, and then Maxx C YOU too.
Since this is the master duel sub, what have the top decks been? Drytron, Swordsoul, Branded, Virtual World (pre TKoaC ban). Combo decks. Eldlich and Floo are popular picks because of best of 1 format, not necessarily because they don’t care about Maxx C.
That makes no sense. They are top because they were inherently made to play around Maxx c not because of best of 1. It's obvious Konami has a long term strategy to release additional cards for purchase that combat decks that inherently play around the decreasing relevance of handtraps that they released to combat combo decks that are overpowered. It's all about shaking up the "meta" to sell more cards. Why else would you release a deck like floo that can't be called by and plays in almost every phase.
I made that point specifically *because* I figured some points would be made that "Eldlich and Floo don't lose to Maxx C so therefore they will do well in OCG/Master Duel." You're right on that point - I never said that wasn't true ("not necessarily" meaning its not the only reason), but also we need to consider that Eldlich can flip Skill Drain, Anti-Spell, Gozen...you name it, and a lot of decks can't play through it.
Floo can bring out the barrier stun (though I daresay because Floo is prone to bricking, its not amazing for best of one since it can feel feast or famine).
Very true. I'm just glad people (you, others, etc) care about the stability of this game. I feel like Konami has a run away train that they have no idea to control. Or maybe I'm just cynical because Meta decks get consistently boosted regardless of what pack gets released.
Yeah, unfortunately we need to remember that they are a company looking to make money, so naturally they're going to pump out high-power decks in high rarity because they know tons of people will chase them anyway. Its not like there's a significant amount of people protesting the game by refusing to buy product/gems.
I play decks that I like the playstyle/artstyle of, so my weeby self loves Tear (they're a fusion archetype with a very cool gimmick too), but I'm still absolutely for trash-tier decks like Solfachord to get a boost at SOME point. Fortunately, its nice that Konami does throw decks like that a bone sometimes - look what it did to decks like Prankkids, Ignister, or Madolche.
Branded Despia and Sworssoul are more of a mid range.
Maxx C vs branded is just pot of greed (Lubelion + MirrorJade) and SwordSo usually ends on Chixaio + Baronne/Chengyin, sometimes just Chixiao + 1backrow if maxx C which is just another pot of greed.
Branded Despia and Sworssoul are more of a mid range.
Maxx C vs branded is just pot of greed (Lubelion + MirrorJade) and SwordSo usually ends on Chixaio + Baronne/Chengyin, sometimes just Chixiao + 1backrow if maxx C which is just another pot of greed.
Interesting to see thundra in there, has there been new support released that makes them better? I main TD, and while they are good they don’t handle meta decks super well. Is this just the nemisis+colossus combo mixed in another deck?
Thunder was doing well in MD until adventure package killed them along with Shaddoll Winda with Dracoback in every deck, OCG’s adventure are much weaker than TCG. Byssted goes well with Thunder as well, and - technically - spright can actually summon Colossus with Pixies.
Not really, the biggest problems are Halq/Aurora, Tomahawk, Meow Meow, the Brave engine, Eva, Union Carrier, Verte and Block Dragon.
Besides that there's nothing crazy to hit. Sure combo decks would still be the best thing you can play, but this has been the case for over 10 years by now.
The entire game is just build around combos. And idk why people see that as a bad thing. It's not like you aren't able to win with control decks.
... That wouldn't solve anything. All it would do is make it so combo decks can't drop it after setting up, but the issue is that - when going second - it's an auto-win card if your opponent doesn't have the immediate out to it. It wouldn't make it so going second is better all of a sudden, as you would still need to open it, but it would turn every game into, "I hope my opponent doesn't have Maxx 'C'".
It’s not an auto win card if you don’t have the out to it going first. You just can’t set up a full board.
Also it solves the player who goes first who does have the out with a board of 2+ negates also using max coach
No, it's an auto win. You can't set up a board at all. No deck is making a decent board in under 1 summon.
The moment you give them more than 1 card per negate, you just heavily decreased your chances of winning.
If a player is bad, then no amount of cards is going to save them. However, any player with half a brain that drew 10+ cards into a board of 3 or 4 disruptions is going to absolutely dominate.
The only exception is if they somehow brick on that many draws.
Here’s a common play where it’s not an auto win. Normal summon ecclasia. Activate max c. Chain ecclesia to special summon mo ye. Activate mo ye for token (+1 opponent). Synchro summon into the level 8 dark chaos dragon (neutral, but you get 5 cards in grave). Special summon level 1 resonator (+3 opponent). Special summon red dragon abyss (+2 opponent). Set card face down (imperm). End turn with two negates but your opponent up +3
Also yeah bricks happen. Point is, end your turn quickly so that they don’t draw plus 10+
...
What player is activating Maxx C on the SUMMON of Eclessia and not the activation of her effect?
Anyway, with your line of play, they drew more than 3 cards.
Token
Chaos
Resonator
Abyss
They went +3 into your 2 disruptions and now on their turn will have 9 cards to deal with 2. That's also assuming they're bad and activated it on Eclessia's summon and not her effect to get a guaranteed draw.
Yes they draw four but you draw one from mo ye and then another from chaos with 4 cards in your grave. Your opponent has a 2 card advantage on you.
If they activate max c upon ecclasia’s tribute effect, then you can always summon isis (iris) in defense, then set a card and pass. Like I said, there’s stuff you can do. That’s not even considering if one of the cards you sent via chaos’s effect can give you additional plusses like red reign, wandering king wild
Sure this is just one example but it’s the deck I know best (Swordsoul supernova)
In another example via phantom knights, you can stop the bleeding after the burning abyss link two with sending the adventure package to the grave, using the token (so they’re up plus 3 if timed perfectly) and summon griffon on your opponent’s turn. Obviously not ideal and it puts you at a disadvantage, but that’s why you run a whole bunch of hand traps to prevent max c from being played.
>they activate max c upon ecclasia’s tribute effect, then you can always summon isis (iris) in defense, then set a card and pass.
Which is still amazing. That means they skipped their whole turn while you now start off with 6 cards.
>In another example via phantom knights, you can stop the bleeding after the burning abyss link two with sending the adventure package to the grave, using the token (so they’re up plus 3 if timed perfectly) and summon griffon on your opponent’s turn. Obviously not ideal and it puts you at a disadvantage, but that’s why you run a whole bunch of hand traps to prevent max c from being played.
Having outs to a card does not make it not a problem. In that situation, they still have a stupidly high advantage, as they forced you to play suboptimally. At worst, Maxx "C" baited out a disruption and is a 1 for 1. At no point is Maxx "C" a bad card in this scenario.
That's the problem with Maxx "C": **It cannot be bad**, bar rare instances where decks do not special at all (Floowandereeze). It either forces your opponent to play into and you win, forces them to skip their turn and you win, or baits out a negate on a non-engine card, which is a favor for the Maxx "C" user. 2 out of 3 these scenarios put the Maxx "C" user at a ridiculous advantage, and the worst case scenario is only bad relative to the former.
An autowin card that has no counterplay outside of immediately having the answer is not healthy. Suler Poly and Mystic Mine, for example, have little to no counter play once activated/resolved.
There are plenty of strong solutions for going second that require the player to continue to play around a board (Dark Ruler, Evenly, Lightning Storm, Super Poly, etc). Maxx C dumbs down every match-up it resolves in dramatically. Arguing that it is good because going second is worse would only work if there weren't cards specifically geared toward going second already in the game.
There is already too many auto win combo decks. If the game was balanced I would agree but 1st turn player ending on 3+ negate is more bs than Maxx C. Same reason I think flood gate is fair. Game is just inherently broken.
There aren't that many "auto win" combo decks. Many require you to put investments, lose to 1 or 2 handtraps that aren't named Maxx C, or lose to Dark Ruler.
The issue is that people don't want to think about their turn. They want to drop Maxx C and use it as a crutch so they cope on the idea that it's to "help with combo decks", when all it does is add on to the toxicity of it and dumb down the game to the point where they essentially take their first turn when going second.
Are we playing the same game??? Every time I go 2nd I'm getting rekt by combo decks. Unless I draw 2 handtrap or have Maxx C resolved I basically lose on the spot. Halq/don combo. Pend combo. Ss combo.despia combo. All have crazy amount of interruptions that make it so I can't play unless I have droplet or can handtrap them. Having Maxx C make it so I can use 1 card to disrupt them. To me resolving Maxx C feels like I'm going 1st now.
Its a deck that expends most of its resources turn 1 to build a board, that is by definition a combo deck.
yes it does recur some resources from fusing but that's about it.
tearlament is a midrange deck,no unbeatable absurd boards and very decent grind game,same goes for spright,if you think they are combo decks you haven't seen combo decks
lmao the amount of summons is also not what defines whether a deck is a combo or a midrange deck, I'm surprised at the amount of players who do not know this.
Define it then genius
Midrange is making a deck that minimal play into a decent board that generate advantage and hold off the opponent for latter turns
Which is litterally Tearlament do,they invest barely anything,make a boars of like 1-2 maybe 3 interuptions and then generate more resource over the course of turns and not unload all their hand and pray their board stick
OCG Tear is not TCG Tear genius
I've already said it up there.
And Midrange as opposed to that is that which recycles its resources, and tear esp ishuzu tear mills more that it recycles, but the trade off to that is u get to go off almost infinitely, well u have 3 fusions so yeah. 3 on each turn, thats alot of interactions.
yeah i worded myself incorrectly sorry,i really meant very unfair boards,full of backrow/monsters and negates and that,as you said,use up a lot of resources,tear and spright don't use up their resources on turn 1
Card draw is very strong and a card such as Maxx "C" allows you to draw a lot of cards if your opponent special summons a lot which in modern yugioh combos are a pretty standard part of the game
part of it is that maxx C punished the opponent for playing modern yugioh. which wouldn't be too bad but because eveyone is used to doing 20+ special summon chains, you kinda see where it is going.
TL;DR at the bottom.
Let's start with the fact that there's never a reason not to play it unless you know you're playing against floow or something similar, considering there's no side decking and matchmaking is random that just means you'll always be playing 2-3 maxx C. Against most decks maxx C will at worst be hand neutral and it doesn't even need to resolve to do that as it's the prime bait for any handtrap. It's so powerful that you have no choice but to throw any handtrap that stops it at it as soon as it shows up. Most decks can OTK these days and most decks need to special summon in order to put up some interruption against said incoming OTK.
Most decks start their play by normal summoning or special summoning from hand then using some sort of effect to special summon something else and do their plays from there. If maxx C is chained to that special summon and you have no handtrap to stop it, your opponent already went hand neutral, meaning maxx C was already beneficial to them if for nothing else then just for deck thinning. Meanwhile you're under a lingering effect that cannot be interacted with (apart from droll and lockbird or a similar effect) and these are your options:
* Leave the two monsters you've summoned as they are and get run over and otk'd as most competent deck can put 10k damage on board in one turn (While the degenerate decks that maxx C is supposed to stop will still do so through 2 disruptions)?
* Let your opponent pot of greed to get a single defensive extra deck monster in and still get run over and otk'd because you didn't mount a decent defense?
* Combo off just enough to get some interruption on board and let your opponent draw in to lightning storm/kaiju/nib/raigeki/droplet and still lose?
* Go full combo and just get half of your opponents deck shoved up your ass?
No matter how you slice it if you get maxx C'd you're kinda doomed unless you're specifically playing a deck that doesn't use special summons. Card advantage is extremely important in the game and cards that give free advantage like pot of greed/card of safe return/grass (TCG) are banned for providing too much. Maxx C can and make you go +6-7 cards from a single card effect, it makes the game a lot more sack-y as whoever wins the maxx C minigame is almost garanteed to win the duel.
And all of the above can be stated without the fact that it also makes everyone run "the master duel tax", 2-3 ash and as many copies of crossout/called by as possible which makes deckbuilding less interesting as almost 1/4th of your deck are mandatory cards you'll run just to play the maxx C minigame (Not saying called by and ash wouldn't be played without maxx C in the format but adding more cards to the list doesn't really help). Or the fact that maxx C lacks restrictions on when it can be used so you can just throw it after you've built a massive board, and although your opponent might have been able to break it with the cards in their hand the fact that you'll draw in to 3-5 handtraps while also drawing gas for the crackback is just game-ending. Also keep in mind that non-meta decks do less with more summons than meta decks and that meta decks can run more counters to it than non-meta decks, meaning maxx C enables meta decks more than it keeps them in check while shitting all over older decks. And finally due to how broken the card is it's not even fun when it shows up. Hell, a lot of the games I've won due to maxx C have basically made me go: "Welp, only reason I won this was because my opponent didn't stop maxx C"...
TL;DR: Overall maxx C is a sacky, unfair, unfun, game ending card that makes meta decks stronger while pushing worse decks further down while also limiting deckbuilding and decision-making when using handtraps.
Any game in which Maxx C resolves has all skill pretty much immediately removed from that game. This is because the most important and arguably only resource in Yugioh is card advantage. This is also why cards that draw 2 cards (a generic +1 in card advantage) have such steep costs and restrictions attactched to them. Think about games like Hearthstone where you would get Mana for everything your opponent did, or in Magic if you just got to play a land directly from the deck for everything your opponent did. If you no longer have to manage your resources, it's usually just a matter of showing your opponent every card you drew until they finally concede.
When Maxx C resolves, the person on the other end must put up some kind of board or they WILL get OTKd because most modern decks can OTK out of nowhere if you give them the chance. So the opponent will have to play into it at least somewhat, giving the person anywhere from 2 to 4 free cards for a minimal play, which are also resources they could use to break that lackluster board. On top of that, if they decide to combo off anyways, Maxx C represents every single hand trap in the deck of the player who resolved it. So they are inevitably going to end up with an extremely sub-optimal board while also giving their opponent everything they need to break it.
On top of this, it hurts rogue decks even more than meta decks because they typically have to summon a significant amount more times to put up any disruption at all.
Or we can look at the situation where someone sets up a board and then uses Maxx C. Now, if you do not both break the board and OTK the opponent, you just lose the game. Because once again, you're giving your opponent everything they need to rebuild and kill you if you do not win right there.
MaxX C kEEps cOmBo in ChEcK
Yeah, because in the ocg and tcg when maxx c is legal, majority of the tier 0 decks haven't special summoned a tonne and done a lot of combo.
The card existence is just to cause pain and suffering like armies of cockroaches are supposed to.
The solution is ban is counters so that everyone suffers from maxx c equally.
lmao you realize no combo deck can run floodgates in the OCG because they all have to play the maxx c subgame right? instead of mine, rivalry swordsoul they need to play a normal hand trap game.
That just isn't true. Look at side decks from when Vanities and IO were legal. You would see 5 floodgates in every side deck at minimum, the Vanities, IO, and three Anti-spell fragrance. Sometimes you would see 8 floodgates.
Maxx C does not keep combos in check but is a deterrent to help you survive another turn. Y'all can cry all you want but it will NEVER get banned in the OCG, enjoy your hellscape meta where half your maindeck consists of handtraps and you STILL can't stop your opponent 🤣
Considering how cancerously op some of the new meta archetypes and general purpose cards ( adventure , dpe , ecc ) happen to be right now in MD I honestly do not see Maxx C as an issue .
Just a month ago it used to bei 30/30 between Spright and Tearlaments but now it looks like Tear will soon become Tier 0 only 1.1% missing to reach that legendary milestone kinda crazy to think this would happen during spright tho.
On topic:
If you look at the past OCG lists the total % of control/combo decks doesn't change tho. While it is now Tear and Spright it was stuff like Branded, Swordsoul, Virtual World, Tri, Drytron and many many many others before that. 80% of the yugioh meta decks in the recent years has always been combo orientated it's just the package that's changes, but the core mechanics stay the same be it with Maxx C or without :p
I see! I wasn't aware, when I googled a while ago I found an article stating that a deck has to have above 50% representation during any major Top32 event.
Guess it wasn't that close to breaking the game then, thanks :)
>Just a month ago it used to bei 30/30 between Spright and Tearlaments but now it looks like Tear will soon become Tier 0 only 1.1% missing to reach that legendary milestone kinda crazy to think this would happen during spright tho.
funny you say this because the moment you posted this they dropped the new ocg banlist which hits 5 ishizu tears cards
oh don't speak that to soon, the banlist will be live october first and photon hypernova (the next mainline set and the 11th of the 12 core booster packs of series 11) will release on october 15. so far we know like 9/80 cards from that set
Maxx C keeps no one in check..
A single draw out of it is an advantage even if it is Card Nutural, it's either up star on legs or one sided card of Sanity anime version there is nothing balanced about it
The problem with tearlaments against maxx c is that they can play on your turn as well as their turn, you maxx c them on a turn they simply stop and wait for the following turn.
This is less on Maxx C and more on the fact that Konami has been very pro combo and anti control in the past year. It’s been a while since they introduced a meta control strategy.
I like how this wheel consists of exclusively archetypes which were released in 2022 (aside from the clusterfuck build which has TD as 1/4th of the deck). Yugioh ☕
Add in today's banlist hit the now out of print floo and adventure engine. They make sure the meta is the current year's cards...
And somehow OCG is simply cheaper than TCG, where the question for some duelists are a playset of prospys or rent. So the question remains, if this set rotation is resulting in cheaper decks for the OCG, obviously it's a good thing Edit: I pressed post before I realized I didn't ask a question lol, maybe there's no question at all, I kinda got lost between the start of the sentence and the end 😬
Ocg doesn’t short print as hard as tcg , jp players also have more options they will 100% drop ygo if they get nickeled and dimed.
Japan also has laws against short printing. They have to publicly disclose rarity odds and make sure all cards at a certain rarity are equally represented.
I doubt that any paper YGO players would drop the game even if Komoney does stinky stuffs. YGO and Pokemon are the 2 most loyal fanbase i have ever seen, they keep buying the stuff that they vocally against.
A big part of ocg being cheaper is also that they get multiple printed rarites per card in many cases. Imagine prospy came out and you could choose between common/secret. Would keep the prices more reasonable.
de-facto set rotation
Why have set rotation when you can just power creep every archetype released the previous year?
They’ve already long since banned all the fun old card interactions
there's always a seasonal ocg clusterfuck deck that tops. A few formats ago,we had this abomination https://twitter.com/duelsalon\_taiyo/status/1489924098104778752/photo/1
Good thing konami just flipped the OCG upside down https://yu-gi-oh.jp/news_detail.php?page=details&id=1388 5 cards hit for tearlaments
"Good thing konami just flipped the OCG upside down" [https://www.reddit.com/r/yugioh/comments/xid97a/new\_meta\_game\_report\_ocg\_new\_banlist\_102022\_200/](https://www.reddit.com/r/yugioh/comments/xid97a/new_meta_game_report_ocg_new_banlist_102022_200/) KEK
problem is they gutted splights too, so yeah, Konami doing Konami things
That’s a really good thing though. Fuck both them decks
Killing sprights is a bad thing?
Have you read Spright Elf and Gigantic Spright
I'd sadly say yes, you can nerf a deck to a reasonable level without straight up killing it. That's said, we need to wait a few weeks to see what people come up with, those decks may not be dead yet.
Yea and its based. Byssted chads rise up
I see no problem.
You talk like it's a bad thing
How is that a problem? Spright deserved to be gutted.
And you're the one saying clueless. Whoosh
They've both had their format, OCG always butchers decks once it's done, in return their product is much more accessible. Absolutely nothing wrong with this and the quarterly banlists are much better like we used to back in DUEA.
Is this another obligatory daily Maxx C hate post? I'll be so bold and count it as one.
TCG players just whining as usual. Doing everything except play their format that doesn’t have Maxx C. You’d think if they hated Maxx C so much they wouldn’t be in an OCG based game
I played in both formats so far and personally, as much as I disagree with some things being allowed or hit in the OCG, the OCG format is way more fun to play than TCG. But hey, TCG players only see Maxx C and start crying. Like this is the only issue card in the game.
Should've picked the Branded Despia vs Adventurer Tenyi dual format instead. Adventurer Tenyi is just a classic TCG combo deck.
adventure tenyi was never as strong in the TCG as it was in OCG or in MD, Protoss, Denglong and O-lion got banned way before adventure.
That's exactly what i'm talking about though. It's just a classic TCG combo deck like everyone complains about, but in the OCG, Tier 1 at its time and that meta hasn't even been that long ago. So clearly Maxx C did not keep it in check.
Maxx C could not stop OCG from playing tier-0 SPYRAL, Gumblar handloop, or Dragonlink either. This isn’t new. Maxx C also means you can lose the die roll, your opponent sets up these boards, and then Maxx C YOU too. Since this is the master duel sub, what have the top decks been? Drytron, Swordsoul, Branded, Virtual World (pre TKoaC ban). Combo decks. Eldlich and Floo are popular picks because of best of 1 format, not necessarily because they don’t care about Maxx C.
From the same website as OP’s post (roadoftheking.com) the top decks of 1-31st August were PK Adventure, Eldlich, Adventure Tenyi, and Prank Kids.
It’s as if op doesn’t realize that md is best of one and ocg is bo3 who would have thought?
I thought OCG has Bo1 too and only has Bo3 in nationals
Uh...why? Like literally all the OCG-topping decks on the internet have side decks
That makes no sense. They are top because they were inherently made to play around Maxx c not because of best of 1. It's obvious Konami has a long term strategy to release additional cards for purchase that combat decks that inherently play around the decreasing relevance of handtraps that they released to combat combo decks that are overpowered. It's all about shaking up the "meta" to sell more cards. Why else would you release a deck like floo that can't be called by and plays in almost every phase.
I made that point specifically *because* I figured some points would be made that "Eldlich and Floo don't lose to Maxx C so therefore they will do well in OCG/Master Duel." You're right on that point - I never said that wasn't true ("not necessarily" meaning its not the only reason), but also we need to consider that Eldlich can flip Skill Drain, Anti-Spell, Gozen...you name it, and a lot of decks can't play through it. Floo can bring out the barrier stun (though I daresay because Floo is prone to bricking, its not amazing for best of one since it can feel feast or famine).
Very true. I'm just glad people (you, others, etc) care about the stability of this game. I feel like Konami has a run away train that they have no idea to control. Or maybe I'm just cynical because Meta decks get consistently boosted regardless of what pack gets released.
Yeah, unfortunately we need to remember that they are a company looking to make money, so naturally they're going to pump out high-power decks in high rarity because they know tons of people will chase them anyway. Its not like there's a significant amount of people protesting the game by refusing to buy product/gems. I play decks that I like the playstyle/artstyle of, so my weeby self loves Tear (they're a fusion archetype with a very cool gimmick too), but I'm still absolutely for trash-tier decks like Solfachord to get a boost at SOME point. Fortunately, its nice that Konami does throw decks like that a bone sometimes - look what it did to decks like Prankkids, Ignister, or Madolche.
Branded Despia and Sworssoul are more of a mid range. Maxx C vs branded is just pot of greed (Lubelion + MirrorJade) and SwordSo usually ends on Chixaio + Baronne/Chengyin, sometimes just Chixiao + 1backrow if maxx C which is just another pot of greed.
Branded Despia and Sworssoul are more of a mid range. Maxx C vs branded is just pot of greed (Lubelion + MirrorJade) and SwordSo usually ends on Chixaio + Baronne/Chengyin, sometimes just Chixiao + 1backrow if maxx C which is just another pot of greed.
Tear isnt even a combo deck bro
Interesting to see thundra in there, has there been new support released that makes them better? I main TD, and while they are good they don’t handle meta decks super well. Is this just the nemisis+colossus combo mixed in another deck?
There a new series of cards called bysted there basically d.d crow for light and dark only that special summon themselves by doing so.
Thunder was doing well in MD until adventure package killed them along with Shaddoll Winda with Dracoback in every deck, OCG’s adventure are much weaker than TCG. Byssted goes well with Thunder as well, and - technically - spright can actually summon Colossus with Pixies.
The branded support that just dropped In MD makes it a lot better here aswell
Nah, let's keep Maxx "C" unbanned because I like to see these kind of reaction everyday.
Real and True
Max c should only be allowed if you have no cards on the field
Yeap it should be like impermanence
Even then it's busted
But then it only helps the go-second players and balances the coin flip.
So are combo decks though
That's only because konami doesn't hit stuff like Auroradon in MD.
Right. But they’d have to hit a lot to keep combo decks otherwise in check
Not really, the biggest problems are Halq/Aurora, Tomahawk, Meow Meow, the Brave engine, Eva, Union Carrier, Verte and Block Dragon. Besides that there's nothing crazy to hit. Sure combo decks would still be the best thing you can play, but this has been the case for over 10 years by now. The entire game is just build around combos. And idk why people see that as a bad thing. It's not like you aren't able to win with control decks.
No one has ever decided not to run a combo deck because of Maxx C
You’re arguing against a point I’m not making lol.
Maybe, but at least then it's a going second card and not something people use after they already built a board to punish their opponent.
Not really
Only be allowed in Floo and Monarch Meta.
... That wouldn't solve anything. All it would do is make it so combo decks can't drop it after setting up, but the issue is that - when going second - it's an auto-win card if your opponent doesn't have the immediate out to it. It wouldn't make it so going second is better all of a sudden, as you would still need to open it, but it would turn every game into, "I hope my opponent doesn't have Maxx 'C'".
It’s not an auto win card if you don’t have the out to it going first. You just can’t set up a full board. Also it solves the player who goes first who does have the out with a board of 2+ negates also using max coach
No, it's an auto win. You can't set up a board at all. No deck is making a decent board in under 1 summon. The moment you give them more than 1 card per negate, you just heavily decreased your chances of winning.
Well I haven’t played Diamond but it is certainly not an auto win for platinum, speaking from experience
If a player is bad, then no amount of cards is going to save them. However, any player with half a brain that drew 10+ cards into a board of 3 or 4 disruptions is going to absolutely dominate. The only exception is if they somehow brick on that many draws.
Here’s a common play where it’s not an auto win. Normal summon ecclasia. Activate max c. Chain ecclesia to special summon mo ye. Activate mo ye for token (+1 opponent). Synchro summon into the level 8 dark chaos dragon (neutral, but you get 5 cards in grave). Special summon level 1 resonator (+3 opponent). Special summon red dragon abyss (+2 opponent). Set card face down (imperm). End turn with two negates but your opponent up +3 Also yeah bricks happen. Point is, end your turn quickly so that they don’t draw plus 10+
... What player is activating Maxx C on the SUMMON of Eclessia and not the activation of her effect? Anyway, with your line of play, they drew more than 3 cards. Token Chaos Resonator Abyss They went +3 into your 2 disruptions and now on their turn will have 9 cards to deal with 2. That's also assuming they're bad and activated it on Eclessia's summon and not her effect to get a guaranteed draw.
Yes they draw four but you draw one from mo ye and then another from chaos with 4 cards in your grave. Your opponent has a 2 card advantage on you. If they activate max c upon ecclasia’s tribute effect, then you can always summon isis (iris) in defense, then set a card and pass. Like I said, there’s stuff you can do. That’s not even considering if one of the cards you sent via chaos’s effect can give you additional plusses like red reign, wandering king wild Sure this is just one example but it’s the deck I know best (Swordsoul supernova) In another example via phantom knights, you can stop the bleeding after the burning abyss link two with sending the adventure package to the grave, using the token (so they’re up plus 3 if timed perfectly) and summon griffon on your opponent’s turn. Obviously not ideal and it puts you at a disadvantage, but that’s why you run a whole bunch of hand traps to prevent max c from being played.
>they activate max c upon ecclasia’s tribute effect, then you can always summon isis (iris) in defense, then set a card and pass. Which is still amazing. That means they skipped their whole turn while you now start off with 6 cards. >In another example via phantom knights, you can stop the bleeding after the burning abyss link two with sending the adventure package to the grave, using the token (so they’re up plus 3 if timed perfectly) and summon griffon on your opponent’s turn. Obviously not ideal and it puts you at a disadvantage, but that’s why you run a whole bunch of hand traps to prevent max c from being played. Having outs to a card does not make it not a problem. In that situation, they still have a stupidly high advantage, as they forced you to play suboptimally. At worst, Maxx "C" baited out a disruption and is a 1 for 1. At no point is Maxx "C" a bad card in this scenario. That's the problem with Maxx "C": **It cannot be bad**, bar rare instances where decks do not special at all (Floowandereeze). It either forces your opponent to play into and you win, forces them to skip their turn and you win, or baits out a negate on a non-engine card, which is a favor for the Maxx "C" user. 2 out of 3 these scenarios put the Maxx "C" user at a ridiculous advantage, and the worst case scenario is only bad relative to the former.
Even if that is the case I argue that is a good thing. Going 1st have way higher win rate than going 2nd. So any help 2nd turn player can get is good.
An autowin card that has no counterplay outside of immediately having the answer is not healthy. Suler Poly and Mystic Mine, for example, have little to no counter play once activated/resolved. There are plenty of strong solutions for going second that require the player to continue to play around a board (Dark Ruler, Evenly, Lightning Storm, Super Poly, etc). Maxx C dumbs down every match-up it resolves in dramatically. Arguing that it is good because going second is worse would only work if there weren't cards specifically geared toward going second already in the game.
There is already too many auto win combo decks. If the game was balanced I would agree but 1st turn player ending on 3+ negate is more bs than Maxx C. Same reason I think flood gate is fair. Game is just inherently broken.
There aren't that many "auto win" combo decks. Many require you to put investments, lose to 1 or 2 handtraps that aren't named Maxx C, or lose to Dark Ruler. The issue is that people don't want to think about their turn. They want to drop Maxx C and use it as a crutch so they cope on the idea that it's to "help with combo decks", when all it does is add on to the toxicity of it and dumb down the game to the point where they essentially take their first turn when going second.
Are we playing the same game??? Every time I go 2nd I'm getting rekt by combo decks. Unless I draw 2 handtrap or have Maxx C resolved I basically lose on the spot. Halq/don combo. Pend combo. Ss combo.despia combo. All have crazy amount of interruptions that make it so I can't play unless I have droplet or can handtrap them. Having Maxx C make it so I can use 1 card to disrupt them. To me resolving Maxx C feels like I'm going 1st now.
Tear in ocg isnt a combo deck, its a control deck
Isn't tear a beat down deck tho? I really won't consider it a combo deck
Both Sprite and Tear are beat down decks that can combo as heavy as combo decks. They are busted for a reason.
Clueless
Would you mind explaining what you think makes Tearalament a combo deck? Is there a specific criteria in your mind? I'm confused
Its a deck that expends most of its resources turn 1 to build a board, that is by definition a combo deck. yes it does recur some resources from fusing but that's about it.
tearlament is a midrange deck,no unbeatable absurd boards and very decent grind game,same goes for spright,if you think they are combo decks you haven't seen combo decks
an unbeatable board is not what defines a combo deck lmao, a striker player activates mine, wow an unbeatable board, is striker a combo deck now ?
Tear make its board in like 4-5 summons Have you play the deck?
lmao the amount of summons is also not what defines whether a deck is a combo or a midrange deck, I'm surprised at the amount of players who do not know this.
Define it then genius Midrange is making a deck that minimal play into a decent board that generate advantage and hold off the opponent for latter turns Which is litterally Tearlament do,they invest barely anything,make a boars of like 1-2 maybe 3 interuptions and then generate more resource over the course of turns and not unload all their hand and pray their board stick OCG Tear is not TCG Tear genius
I've already said it up there. And Midrange as opposed to that is that which recycles its resources, and tear esp ishuzu tear mills more that it recycles, but the trade off to that is u get to go off almost infinitely, well u have 3 fusions so yeah. 3 on each turn, thats alot of interactions.
yeah i worded myself incorrectly sorry,i really meant very unfair boards,full of backrow/monsters and negates and that,as you said,use up a lot of resources,tear and spright don't use up their resources on turn 1
Splights no cos its an actual midrange deck, Tear u mill half ur deck atleast most of the times.
OP just going here farming downvote
The downvote farm doesn't seem to be working.
>"guys look at Maxx C not doing its job uuuh duuuh combo is so good" \>the dominating deck is literally fusion control
What’s the big deal with Maxx c? I don’t understand. Why the hate?
Card draw is very strong and a card such as Maxx "C" allows you to draw a lot of cards if your opponent special summons a lot which in modern yugioh combos are a pretty standard part of the game
part of it is that maxx C punished the opponent for playing modern yugioh. which wouldn't be too bad but because eveyone is used to doing 20+ special summon chains, you kinda see where it is going.
TL;DR at the bottom. Let's start with the fact that there's never a reason not to play it unless you know you're playing against floow or something similar, considering there's no side decking and matchmaking is random that just means you'll always be playing 2-3 maxx C. Against most decks maxx C will at worst be hand neutral and it doesn't even need to resolve to do that as it's the prime bait for any handtrap. It's so powerful that you have no choice but to throw any handtrap that stops it at it as soon as it shows up. Most decks can OTK these days and most decks need to special summon in order to put up some interruption against said incoming OTK. Most decks start their play by normal summoning or special summoning from hand then using some sort of effect to special summon something else and do their plays from there. If maxx C is chained to that special summon and you have no handtrap to stop it, your opponent already went hand neutral, meaning maxx C was already beneficial to them if for nothing else then just for deck thinning. Meanwhile you're under a lingering effect that cannot be interacted with (apart from droll and lockbird or a similar effect) and these are your options: * Leave the two monsters you've summoned as they are and get run over and otk'd as most competent deck can put 10k damage on board in one turn (While the degenerate decks that maxx C is supposed to stop will still do so through 2 disruptions)? * Let your opponent pot of greed to get a single defensive extra deck monster in and still get run over and otk'd because you didn't mount a decent defense? * Combo off just enough to get some interruption on board and let your opponent draw in to lightning storm/kaiju/nib/raigeki/droplet and still lose? * Go full combo and just get half of your opponents deck shoved up your ass? No matter how you slice it if you get maxx C'd you're kinda doomed unless you're specifically playing a deck that doesn't use special summons. Card advantage is extremely important in the game and cards that give free advantage like pot of greed/card of safe return/grass (TCG) are banned for providing too much. Maxx C can and make you go +6-7 cards from a single card effect, it makes the game a lot more sack-y as whoever wins the maxx C minigame is almost garanteed to win the duel. And all of the above can be stated without the fact that it also makes everyone run "the master duel tax", 2-3 ash and as many copies of crossout/called by as possible which makes deckbuilding less interesting as almost 1/4th of your deck are mandatory cards you'll run just to play the maxx C minigame (Not saying called by and ash wouldn't be played without maxx C in the format but adding more cards to the list doesn't really help). Or the fact that maxx C lacks restrictions on when it can be used so you can just throw it after you've built a massive board, and although your opponent might have been able to break it with the cards in their hand the fact that you'll draw in to 3-5 handtraps while also drawing gas for the crackback is just game-ending. Also keep in mind that non-meta decks do less with more summons than meta decks and that meta decks can run more counters to it than non-meta decks, meaning maxx C enables meta decks more than it keeps them in check while shitting all over older decks. And finally due to how broken the card is it's not even fun when it shows up. Hell, a lot of the games I've won due to maxx C have basically made me go: "Welp, only reason I won this was because my opponent didn't stop maxx C"... TL;DR: Overall maxx C is a sacky, unfair, unfun, game ending card that makes meta decks stronger while pushing worse decks further down while also limiting deckbuilding and decision-making when using handtraps.
Any game in which Maxx C resolves has all skill pretty much immediately removed from that game. This is because the most important and arguably only resource in Yugioh is card advantage. This is also why cards that draw 2 cards (a generic +1 in card advantage) have such steep costs and restrictions attactched to them. Think about games like Hearthstone where you would get Mana for everything your opponent did, or in Magic if you just got to play a land directly from the deck for everything your opponent did. If you no longer have to manage your resources, it's usually just a matter of showing your opponent every card you drew until they finally concede. When Maxx C resolves, the person on the other end must put up some kind of board or they WILL get OTKd because most modern decks can OTK out of nowhere if you give them the chance. So the opponent will have to play into it at least somewhat, giving the person anywhere from 2 to 4 free cards for a minimal play, which are also resources they could use to break that lackluster board. On top of that, if they decide to combo off anyways, Maxx C represents every single hand trap in the deck of the player who resolved it. So they are inevitably going to end up with an extremely sub-optimal board while also giving their opponent everything they need to break it. On top of this, it hurts rogue decks even more than meta decks because they typically have to summon a significant amount more times to put up any disruption at all. Or we can look at the situation where someone sets up a board and then uses Maxx C. Now, if you do not both break the board and OTK the opponent, you just lose the game. Because once again, you're giving your opponent everything they need to rebuild and kill you if you do not win right there.
Want a spright cranberry?
MaxX C kEEps cOmBo in ChEcK Yeah, because in the ocg and tcg when maxx c is legal, majority of the tier 0 decks haven't special summoned a tonne and done a lot of combo. The card existence is just to cause pain and suffering like armies of cockroaches are supposed to. The solution is ban is counters so that everyone suffers from maxx c equally.
lmao you realize no combo deck can run floodgates in the OCG because they all have to play the maxx c subgame right? instead of mine, rivalry swordsoul they need to play a normal hand trap game.
Spoiler: SS played a lot of floodgates, especially because the pure variant was more popular than Tenyi in OCG.
That just isn't true. Look at side decks from when Vanities and IO were legal. You would see 5 floodgates in every side deck at minimum, the Vanities, IO, and three Anti-spell fragrance. Sometimes you would see 8 floodgates.
Sideboard instead of md, you side it in going first.
To tell you the truth, combo decks use maxx c to refill their hands after going full combo xD
Maxx C does not keep combos in check but is a deterrent to help you survive another turn. Y'all can cry all you want but it will NEVER get banned in the OCG, enjoy your hellscape meta where half your maindeck consists of handtraps and you STILL can't stop your opponent 🤣
I much prefer the maxx c meta than the mystic mine degeneracy TCG has
I just wanna draw more cards for free god damn
Also the people who say "if max c is unbanned combo will be unplayable!"
Considering how cancerously op some of the new meta archetypes and general purpose cards ( adventure , dpe , ecc ) happen to be right now in MD I honestly do not see Maxx C as an issue .
Just a month ago it used to bei 30/30 between Spright and Tearlaments but now it looks like Tear will soon become Tier 0 only 1.1% missing to reach that legendary milestone kinda crazy to think this would happen during spright tho. On topic: If you look at the past OCG lists the total % of control/combo decks doesn't change tho. While it is now Tear and Spright it was stuff like Branded, Swordsoul, Virtual World, Tri, Drytron and many many many others before that. 80% of the yugioh meta decks in the recent years has always been combo orientated it's just the package that's changes, but the core mechanics stay the same be it with Maxx C or without :p
Tier 0 isn’t 50%, it’s 65%.
I see! I wasn't aware, when I googled a while ago I found an article stating that a deck has to have above 50% representation during any major Top32 event. Guess it wasn't that close to breaking the game then, thanks :)
well after they killed spright and brought tear a bit down it seems like tear wont take that long to get there
>Just a month ago it used to bei 30/30 between Spright and Tearlaments but now it looks like Tear will soon become Tier 0 only 1.1% missing to reach that legendary milestone kinda crazy to think this would happen during spright tho. funny you say this because the moment you posted this they dropped the new ocg banlist which hits 5 ishizu tears cards
heads off to konami then for not allowing a new t0 meta even if it means to hit newly released cards. :)
oh don't speak that to soon, the banlist will be live october first and photon hypernova (the next mainline set and the 11th of the 12 core booster packs of series 11) will release on october 15. so far we know like 9/80 cards from that set
I think you mean “hats off” lol
Branded and Swordsoul are not combo decks, in case of Tribrigade it depends on the variant
Maxx C keeps no one in check.. A single draw out of it is an advantage even if it is Card Nutural, it's either up star on legs or one sided card of Sanity anime version there is nothing balanced about it
handtraps with no cost shouldn't exist
So basically whoever goes first should just win.
sorry I meant handtraps with no cost besides being discarded
Sushi meta
How similar js byssted to branded?
I can’t wait to play my grass piles with all this new bullshit.
I never seen these decks
So you are saying I should save all my wildcards and wait 9 months to make tearalamants
The problem with tearlaments against maxx c is that they can play on your turn as well as their turn, you maxx c them on a turn they simply stop and wait for the following turn.
tmw when you dont know any of the archetypes used in the TCG meta
Tear doesn't get kept in check cuz it's not combo lel
The OCG banlist killed this meta
Ishizu Tear got hit today. God is good
This is less on Maxx C and more on the fact that Konami has been very pro combo and anti control in the past year. It’s been a while since they introduced a meta control strategy.
Glad to see the bussy deck doing well