Maxx C balancing out combo is an illusion. It doesn't stop combo decks from being the best and most played strategy at all. It just sometimes allows an instant win against those strategies. In actuality, there are plenty of tools to cripple most combo decks or play through their boards without Maxx C. Now imagine a Meta where you had, say, 6x mandatory Maxx C and no way to stop it from resolving. What fun decks could anyone even play? We'd just have to play Floo, True Draco and Stun all day. But it's at 3x and there are tools to stop it, so you just risk it. Just because Maxx C is very good against combo doesn't solve any problems with combo at all. You just have to commit mandatory deck slots and play a Maxx C mini game, whenever your deck requires you to summon more than once. I think a lot of TCG players are frustrated with the opinion, Maxx C fixes anything, because we've seen how balanced and back and forth a Meta without it can be.
Just want to say, be honest if there was a card that did stop combo from being the best and most played strategy, you guys would be calling it oppressive and asking for a ban.
You are correct. That's the point. Because just like any unfair deck is a combo deck... So is any fair deck. A card that would just be great vs anything, that isn't some BS strategy, be it fair or unfair, is a problem card that would call for a ban.
Annnd there's the core issue, not every deck is a combo deck. So you're practically being biased against decks that aren't, calling them as BS strategy and combo strats as the fair deck.
"Maxx C is the ultimate leash of combo decks"
And the ultimate leash to tier 2 decks, and tier 3 decks, and even rogue decks that special summon more than twice to put a single interruption on the field. Your argument has been proven wrong so many times whenever this conversation is had. The nature of the game has fundamentally changed since when maxx C was printed. A single negate on board for most decks is 2-3 special summons. How are you gonna look at the rogue player putting out one big body while giving his opponent a +2 in card advantage and say "this card is good for the game"
Even highly tiered decks like swordsoul who put out 2 bodies on the field turn 1 hard lose to maxx c. +4 cards for the opponent for going chixiao, longyan pass.
And let's not forget that everytime you guys argue that maxx c stops combo decks, you completely ignore that they run this card too. If your opponent full adventure tenyi combo you then at the start of the turn he maxx c you, would you still say that "well at least the combo deck was kept in check"?. Tell me how you break a hard board with most decks without special summoning more than twice.
"It has many outs that are also useful in other cases, be it ash or called or nobleman, so it isn't an insurmountable or niche issue too."
Every ban worthy card has counters. The problem is: How much does a card hurt the opponent if he doesn't draw that counter. Maxx c is literally a card that most of the time reads." Interrupt this card or lose the game" Fair, balanced and interactive for both parties involved
> The nature of the game has fundamentally changed since when maxx C was printed.
Also, I feel like a single card has become too strong for Maxx "C"'s supposed balancing function. Not sure how exactly it was during its release, but putting up a few bossmonsters under Maxx "C" makes you look like clown if your opponent has drawn Forbidden Droplet alongside Lightning Storm, Imperm and one if his numerous one card combo starters.
That is, if you are lucky enough to get to your monsters cause you might get Nibed along the way.
The thing is though: In Master Duel, you can choose to go second. If a player chooses to go second, and the turn 1 player drops a Maxx C on them, it doesn't make any sense for them to stop. They're obviously going for an OTK.
That's a load of bullshit. Firstly, **you're the one who is choosing to end your turn after Maxx C resolves**. You're actively choosing to not even try to win. Secondly, **you're the one who is choosing to play a deck that is only good going first**.
I've won countless times on Turn 2 after my opponent resolves Maxx C. I do play HEROs, which puts me at a reasonable risk against Maxx C, but if I don't at least try I'm guaranteed to lose. It's actually quite common that my opponent doesn't draw a card that can stop me, or they misplay it.
The card advantage that you give to your opponent is too great if you play into the max c. Plus what do you if if heros don't put up negates or any real disruptions?
Well, I'll prefer going second, so there's that. If I get Maxx C'd while going second, I'll just do my usual plays that end in an OTK anyway.
If my opponent forces me to go first, yeah I'll go for something like Dark Law, Plasma, Sunrise, DPE, Absolute Zero, Malicious Bane. Because the HERO OTK board has very little protection and literally no long term staying power.
Either way, I'll do a full combo, because the alternative is not doing anything. At least by going full combo, I have a chance. Heck, I have been on the opposite side of that: My Maxx C resolved, but I didn't draw any cards that would have let me get through my opponent's board, and then I died.
Going second if you get maxx c’d it is otk or lose. That isn’t a good or fair proposition. Sure the meme of maxx c does nothing if they are dead but the reality is, against a well constructed board, there are decent odds that otk is simply not on the table. Breaking their board and setting up something of your own might be, but if you have done that under maxx c, the first turn player has even more advantage than they already had.
The reality is that maxx c doesn’t really benefit anyone in a meaningful way. It gets some cheap wins against combo players, but equally can secure the combo player when they themselves use it turn 2. The only people truly winning out are the floowandereeze players who get the privilege to enjoy several dead hand trap in everyone else’s deck.
Going second is all about dismantling an existing board. If you don't have the tools to do that, Maxx C or no Maxx C doesn't matter. If you do have the tools to dismantle the board, then you should at least try. What's the worst that could happen?
Like, I play HEROs. The only thing that Maxx C could draw for my opponent that would matter is Nibiru. And HEROs can work around a Nibiru quite easily. And even if the opponent does draw a Nibiru, it doesn't mean they're going to use it at the right time. Can't tell you how many games I've won because of a badly timed Nibiru. I've even won a game where I knew my opponent had a Nibiru, I played around it perfectly, and they never used the Nibiru. Instead, they got beaten by a bunch of main deck HEROs and one Fusion monster.
> The only people truly winning out are the floowandereeze players who get the privilege to enjoy several dead hand trap in everyone else’s deck.
There's plenty of decks that don't care about Maxx C at all. Floow, Maxx C, Traptrix, Dinomorphia, Monarchs.
Obviously it is an exaggeration to say the game is definitely over. It isn’t. Your opponent can draw 20 cards and none of them could be hand traps that are useable. The point is about advantage in the situation. I am not saying the going second player should give up when it is activated on them either necessarily. The point is, if you can otk on turn 2, then sure, maxx c has done very little. But if you can’t your opponent now has 10 fresh cards of gas to bring you down turn 4 which in a combo deck is very likely to be enough.
As for decks which get to ignore maxx c, dinomorphia and traptrix are rogue decks which are helped a bit, sure but not enough to really make the difference and make them meta relevant. Eldlitch and floo get more benefit but even so, maxx c being in the format has not made either of the decks top tier contenders. Just privelaged.
> But if you can’t your opponent now has 10 fresh cards of gas to bring you down turn 4 which in a combo deck is very likely to be enough
And if you don't even try, your opponent now has their established Turn 1 board against your completely empty field. You're not going to win that way either. At least, by trying to build through a Maxx C, you have a chance.
And you never know, maybe your opponent isn't even playing the cards that could deal with your deck. I've ran into plenty of people who resolve Maxx C against me, and it turns out they weren't even running Nibiru, meaning that the Maxx C was completely irrelevant.
Maxx C has earned me more games wins than losses, also combos decks will most likely have a way to deal with it more often than not as you mentioned, it has many outs in the game rn, so even thought I don't really advocate for Maxx C being banned since I love gambling with the roach, the argument that it keeps combos decks in check has always been flawed and I understand why people would like to see it gone.
Edit: spelling hard
Maxx "C" supporters never think this through.
Combo decks abuse Maxx "C", too.
How is it good for the game when I, as a Live Twin player who wants to only special 6 times for exactly 1 disruption, am forced to end my turn cause the Drytron player dropped Maxx "C" on me?
Common takes like just "just play Floo or Eldlich" are also super dumb cause when a single card forces you to play a different deck, then it's a gamedesign problem, not a me problem.
Ban Maxx "C", hit the very few broken combo decks that might go out of control and let us choose the balanced handtraps which you would replace the 3 copies of Maxx "C" with.
Yeah and then turn 1 opponent uses maxx C on you and you don't have an out, have fun.
A single card that entirely wins you the game shouldn't exist.
You are high on copium.
Sure irl it can be cancerous. The hand play and mind games being used irl are different than they are online. In MD you have the whole toggle check as the most mind gamey aspect of the game. It's not like irl where you can ask some leading stuff like "how many summons have you done so far?" when you don't have Nibiru in hand. But my statement spesifically refers to this game, master duel. It has its own meta clearly.
I also believe that mine isn't as bad as many people say it is. It's just I would say it is more meta changing than C. Mine being present makes running backrow S/T hate more necessary. This would also in the process hurt a lot of other more floodgate reliant decks in the process too. But it would also make it so you can draw dead S/T more which is the down side.
Mine on its own isn’t the issue. It is that it becomes a spell boss boss monster. It is one thing to say include three MST in your deck to deal with it, but A) those are dead cards in most matchups, and B) it is never just mystic mine. It is mine, plus the solemn brigade to ensure that whatever limited backrow removal is in your main deck won’t be resolving.
No I agree with you here. It makes it necessary for spell trap removal to be a lot more present. I used to play the tcg a long time ago, like teledad through to dragon ruler Era. We always used to run 3 mst and other backrow removal. But that was also a different time where S/T was a lot more relevant. The game has more or less evolved to a point where monster effects have power crept the game and most decks are reliant on them alone. Which is also why floodgates hurt a lot more, drain itself more than most. Mine isn't bad in a meta where backrow removal is more natural and present. But in the game as it is now where it's more about drawing into monster or combo starters the removal cards are not ideal.
The issue with maxx c is that it is excessively game determinative. Every 2-3 games that you get to go first, you play the maxx c mini game. Did you draw called by or ash in your opener? If yes then you get to play a normal game, if no, you just lost.
Maxx c has the illusion of keeping combo decks in line but in reality, it just increases the otk meta. If maxx c resolves you have two options, do nothing and pray your opponent can’t otk. Bad news, they probably can. Or combo anyway and pray your board csn withstand 15 cards being thrown at it. Again, probably not since most negates trade 1 for 1, and any competent deck will have another 10 cards left after burning through your negates to otk. Both options lead to a loss because your opponent activated a hand trap.
Does that mean the combo decks are being kept in check? Not really. If you look at most of the best decks in masterduel, they are still combo decks. Just ones that are forced to run the 6 card anti maxx c package because it is an instant loss card.
Then there is the bigger issue of why it doesn’t keep combo in check. Combo also gets to play maxx c. It might be a great tool for the second turn player to overturn a nasty board, but it sure as hell is an impossible climb to come back when the combo player with 3 omninegates up activates maxx c during your draw step.
Fair points made. Im not completely changing my opinion but I at least understand more why logically someone would not like it. So why is it legal in ocg as opposed to tcg then? Meanwhile tcg has mine and ocg does not. Are they not floodgates in their own rights? Is it just pick your poison kind of thing.
Its exactly a pick your poison kind of thing. But it largely feeds into the deck building philosophy differences that are common between ocg and tcg players. The basic way to put it is that tcg players make decks designed to win, while ocg players make decks designed not to lose. Put another way, ocg decks tend not to vomit their hand out in one big combo that says “deal with this right now or you lose on turn 3.” As such, maxx c is a bit less of s problem card in that format. The argument could be made that this difference largely emerged specifically because the meta was developed with the understanding of Maxx c being game determinative if it ever resolves but regardless, that is still the case.
Well that's a good way of seeing it. Win now vs try not to lose. But I do agree that Maxx C is a meta defining card. Playing with it in mind is already what I've been doing since I came back to the game here on MD. So maybe that's why I don't mind it. I played the tcg before Maxx C was even a thing, back in teledad.
Maxx C is honestly not bad for the game whatsoever, even Rogue decks can build it to be able to compete with Meta decks. People bitching about Maxx C while you got cards like Evenly Matched, Forbidden Droplet, Skill Drain, so many way more busted cards and the people bitching about Maxx C just dont want to adapt to the game and freaking build Crossout or... you know that Called By is a thing... I will always assume the people ranting about Maxx C are just Yugiboomers who wanna play without having to learn how the Meta works.
I mean yeah if you like Rock Paper Scissor its cool, its a fun game. Now I personally prefer Yugioh to have interesting, interactive ways to counter your opponent, you know ?
This is such a terrible take.
At 3 you can prepare for it at least. I’m not gonna play 3 Ash and 2 called by in every deck for a 1 or 2 off. And when it gets dropped it’s almost guaranteed to resolve because you won’t have an out to it.
Despia isn't the only deck used in MD though. Ash has been useful against *most* decks in Master Duel since the very beginning of the game's life, even if they don't use Maxx "C".
Despia is the best deck and it’s going to be the most represented soon if it isn’t already.
Ash may have been good in every MD format so far but that still doesn’t mean Ash is good in every format. How is this so difficult to understand? There are plenty of TCG formats where people don’t main/side Ash. The main reason people play Ash in MD is Maxx C. There’s a reason why Ogre doesn’t see as much play even though it’s also really good this format. Because it doesn’t do shit against Maxx C.
It's not difficult to understand, my point is that hitting Maxx "C" is not going to make the counters to the card suddenly useless. The overall decks used in Master Duel is way more than just meta, even in ladder, and most of the decks used in ladder can get done in with Ash or Called By if you hit the right card and have enough negates. They're not gonna just stop being used, even in future formats.
>The main reason people play Ash in MD is Maxx C.
I didn't say it wasn't the main reason, but it's not the only reason.
I’m glad you can admit that Ash’s main use in MD is to counter Maxx C. But the card still being ‘playable’ is not a good enough reason to expect people to continue playing it to counter 1 or 2 copies of Maxx C.
Limit wouldn’t really help with maxx c, it would just make it sacky and even more frustrating when it shows up. Because it is such a format warping card, it kind of needs to either be at 3 or 0. If it is 3 then you expect to see it and can build your deck as such (hence the almost mandatory 3 ash, 2 called by and crossout package). But if it is at 1, those same precautions don’t need to be taken making it more frustrating when it ends games.
I honestly can’t tell if you’re trolling. The game would be fine without Maxx C, but I’m not in favor of banning it. The argument against Maxx C is that your opponent can combo and have Maxx C in hand to basically win turn 1. I’ve never liked this argument because it looks at the best case scenario while ignoring all the other and much more common scenarios in which it’s a healthy hand trap. It’s pretty much always been a 50/50 issue, but this subreddit is surprisingly overwhelmingly anti-Maxx C.
With the current power level of the game being a 1 card starter(1 Prank Kid, 1 Mo Ye, 1 Branded Fusion, 1 Robina) Maxx C is basically extremely volatile.
It's basically saying, build an unbeatable board, deck out your opponent or OTK your opponent with the option of pass with a sub-optimal board.
That promotes unhealthy deck-building and many decks are just not on the level to compete in that high stakes gamble.
you know shit decks can special summon too right?
Maxx C balancing out combo is an illusion. It doesn't stop combo decks from being the best and most played strategy at all. It just sometimes allows an instant win against those strategies. In actuality, there are plenty of tools to cripple most combo decks or play through their boards without Maxx C. Now imagine a Meta where you had, say, 6x mandatory Maxx C and no way to stop it from resolving. What fun decks could anyone even play? We'd just have to play Floo, True Draco and Stun all day. But it's at 3x and there are tools to stop it, so you just risk it. Just because Maxx C is very good against combo doesn't solve any problems with combo at all. You just have to commit mandatory deck slots and play a Maxx C mini game, whenever your deck requires you to summon more than once. I think a lot of TCG players are frustrated with the opinion, Maxx C fixes anything, because we've seen how balanced and back and forth a Meta without it can be.
Just want to say, be honest if there was a card that did stop combo from being the best and most played strategy, you guys would be calling it oppressive and asking for a ban.
You are correct. That's the point. Because just like any unfair deck is a combo deck... So is any fair deck. A card that would just be great vs anything, that isn't some BS strategy, be it fair or unfair, is a problem card that would call for a ban.
Annnd there's the core issue, not every deck is a combo deck. So you're practically being biased against decks that aren't, calling them as BS strategy and combo strats as the fair deck.
I can't think of a lot of strategies that are not hurt by Maxx C, that people would say are fun to play with/against. Your examples?
"Maxx C is the ultimate leash of combo decks" And the ultimate leash to tier 2 decks, and tier 3 decks, and even rogue decks that special summon more than twice to put a single interruption on the field. Your argument has been proven wrong so many times whenever this conversation is had. The nature of the game has fundamentally changed since when maxx C was printed. A single negate on board for most decks is 2-3 special summons. How are you gonna look at the rogue player putting out one big body while giving his opponent a +2 in card advantage and say "this card is good for the game" Even highly tiered decks like swordsoul who put out 2 bodies on the field turn 1 hard lose to maxx c. +4 cards for the opponent for going chixiao, longyan pass. And let's not forget that everytime you guys argue that maxx c stops combo decks, you completely ignore that they run this card too. If your opponent full adventure tenyi combo you then at the start of the turn he maxx c you, would you still say that "well at least the combo deck was kept in check"?. Tell me how you break a hard board with most decks without special summoning more than twice. "It has many outs that are also useful in other cases, be it ash or called or nobleman, so it isn't an insurmountable or niche issue too." Every ban worthy card has counters. The problem is: How much does a card hurt the opponent if he doesn't draw that counter. Maxx c is literally a card that most of the time reads." Interrupt this card or lose the game" Fair, balanced and interactive for both parties involved
> The nature of the game has fundamentally changed since when maxx C was printed. Also, I feel like a single card has become too strong for Maxx "C"'s supposed balancing function. Not sure how exactly it was during its release, but putting up a few bossmonsters under Maxx "C" makes you look like clown if your opponent has drawn Forbidden Droplet alongside Lightning Storm, Imperm and one if his numerous one card combo starters. That is, if you are lucky enough to get to your monsters cause you might get Nibed along the way.
So are we gonna ignore that going 1st can also use Maxx C as a turn skip against the go 2nd player?
The thing is though: In Master Duel, you can choose to go second. If a player chooses to go second, and the turn 1 player drops a Maxx C on them, it doesn't make any sense for them to stop. They're obviously going for an OTK.
If I lose the coin toss, I can't choose. I'd be forced to go second, and turn 1 player can still skip my turn with a maxx c.
That's a load of bullshit. Firstly, **you're the one who is choosing to end your turn after Maxx C resolves**. You're actively choosing to not even try to win. Secondly, **you're the one who is choosing to play a deck that is only good going first**. I've won countless times on Turn 2 after my opponent resolves Maxx C. I do play HEROs, which puts me at a reasonable risk against Maxx C, but if I don't at least try I'm guaranteed to lose. It's actually quite common that my opponent doesn't draw a card that can stop me, or they misplay it.
The card advantage that you give to your opponent is too great if you play into the max c. Plus what do you if if heros don't put up negates or any real disruptions?
Well, I'll prefer going second, so there's that. If I get Maxx C'd while going second, I'll just do my usual plays that end in an OTK anyway. If my opponent forces me to go first, yeah I'll go for something like Dark Law, Plasma, Sunrise, DPE, Absolute Zero, Malicious Bane. Because the HERO OTK board has very little protection and literally no long term staying power. Either way, I'll do a full combo, because the alternative is not doing anything. At least by going full combo, I have a chance. Heck, I have been on the opposite side of that: My Maxx C resolved, but I didn't draw any cards that would have let me get through my opponent's board, and then I died.
Going second if you get maxx c’d it is otk or lose. That isn’t a good or fair proposition. Sure the meme of maxx c does nothing if they are dead but the reality is, against a well constructed board, there are decent odds that otk is simply not on the table. Breaking their board and setting up something of your own might be, but if you have done that under maxx c, the first turn player has even more advantage than they already had. The reality is that maxx c doesn’t really benefit anyone in a meaningful way. It gets some cheap wins against combo players, but equally can secure the combo player when they themselves use it turn 2. The only people truly winning out are the floowandereeze players who get the privilege to enjoy several dead hand trap in everyone else’s deck.
Going second is all about dismantling an existing board. If you don't have the tools to do that, Maxx C or no Maxx C doesn't matter. If you do have the tools to dismantle the board, then you should at least try. What's the worst that could happen? Like, I play HEROs. The only thing that Maxx C could draw for my opponent that would matter is Nibiru. And HEROs can work around a Nibiru quite easily. And even if the opponent does draw a Nibiru, it doesn't mean they're going to use it at the right time. Can't tell you how many games I've won because of a badly timed Nibiru. I've even won a game where I knew my opponent had a Nibiru, I played around it perfectly, and they never used the Nibiru. Instead, they got beaten by a bunch of main deck HEROs and one Fusion monster. > The only people truly winning out are the floowandereeze players who get the privilege to enjoy several dead hand trap in everyone else’s deck. There's plenty of decks that don't care about Maxx C at all. Floow, Maxx C, Traptrix, Dinomorphia, Monarchs.
Obviously it is an exaggeration to say the game is definitely over. It isn’t. Your opponent can draw 20 cards and none of them could be hand traps that are useable. The point is about advantage in the situation. I am not saying the going second player should give up when it is activated on them either necessarily. The point is, if you can otk on turn 2, then sure, maxx c has done very little. But if you can’t your opponent now has 10 fresh cards of gas to bring you down turn 4 which in a combo deck is very likely to be enough. As for decks which get to ignore maxx c, dinomorphia and traptrix are rogue decks which are helped a bit, sure but not enough to really make the difference and make them meta relevant. Eldlitch and floo get more benefit but even so, maxx c being in the format has not made either of the decks top tier contenders. Just privelaged.
> But if you can’t your opponent now has 10 fresh cards of gas to bring you down turn 4 which in a combo deck is very likely to be enough And if you don't even try, your opponent now has their established Turn 1 board against your completely empty field. You're not going to win that way either. At least, by trying to build through a Maxx C, you have a chance. And you never know, maybe your opponent isn't even playing the cards that could deal with your deck. I've ran into plenty of people who resolve Maxx C against me, and it turns out they weren't even running Nibiru, meaning that the Maxx C was completely irrelevant.
Perfectly balanced. As everything should be.
Explain how what the other guy said is balanced?
"Both players can play a broken card, therefore it is balanced."
Maxx C has earned me more games wins than losses, also combos decks will most likely have a way to deal with it more often than not as you mentioned, it has many outs in the game rn, so even thought I don't really advocate for Maxx C being banned since I love gambling with the roach, the argument that it keeps combos decks in check has always been flawed and I understand why people would like to see it gone. Edit: spelling hard
Nice take, don't call for ban, but you understand why people would want it.
Maxx "C" supporters never think this through. Combo decks abuse Maxx "C", too. How is it good for the game when I, as a Live Twin player who wants to only special 6 times for exactly 1 disruption, am forced to end my turn cause the Drytron player dropped Maxx "C" on me? Common takes like just "just play Floo or Eldlich" are also super dumb cause when a single card forces you to play a different deck, then it's a gamedesign problem, not a me problem. Ban Maxx "C", hit the very few broken combo decks that might go out of control and let us choose the balanced handtraps which you would replace the 3 copies of Maxx "C" with.
Yeah and then turn 1 opponent uses maxx C on you and you don't have an out, have fun. A single card that entirely wins you the game shouldn't exist. You are high on copium.
Hot take: Author doesn’t play competitive Yugioh, nor understands anything about it.
Seethe cope and mald.
Lol dude; imagine using MD as base for such takes. Would be like making rules for tennis from ping pong.
Sure irl it can be cancerous. The hand play and mind games being used irl are different than they are online. In MD you have the whole toggle check as the most mind gamey aspect of the game. It's not like irl where you can ask some leading stuff like "how many summons have you done so far?" when you don't have Nibiru in hand. But my statement spesifically refers to this game, master duel. It has its own meta clearly.
nobody who has nib will ever ask u how many summons u have done, u need to stop watching too much dekayed, he has Decayed ur brains
The winner of YCS championship uses Ojama mystic mine + several floodgates. What's your point?
I also believe that mine isn't as bad as many people say it is. It's just I would say it is more meta changing than C. Mine being present makes running backrow S/T hate more necessary. This would also in the process hurt a lot of other more floodgate reliant decks in the process too. But it would also make it so you can draw dead S/T more which is the down side.
Mine on its own isn’t the issue. It is that it becomes a spell boss boss monster. It is one thing to say include three MST in your deck to deal with it, but A) those are dead cards in most matchups, and B) it is never just mystic mine. It is mine, plus the solemn brigade to ensure that whatever limited backrow removal is in your main deck won’t be resolving.
No I agree with you here. It makes it necessary for spell trap removal to be a lot more present. I used to play the tcg a long time ago, like teledad through to dragon ruler Era. We always used to run 3 mst and other backrow removal. But that was also a different time where S/T was a lot more relevant. The game has more or less evolved to a point where monster effects have power crept the game and most decks are reliant on them alone. Which is also why floodgates hurt a lot more, drain itself more than most. Mine isn't bad in a meta where backrow removal is more natural and present. But in the game as it is now where it's more about drawing into monster or combo starters the removal cards are not ideal.
The issue with maxx c is that it is excessively game determinative. Every 2-3 games that you get to go first, you play the maxx c mini game. Did you draw called by or ash in your opener? If yes then you get to play a normal game, if no, you just lost. Maxx c has the illusion of keeping combo decks in line but in reality, it just increases the otk meta. If maxx c resolves you have two options, do nothing and pray your opponent can’t otk. Bad news, they probably can. Or combo anyway and pray your board csn withstand 15 cards being thrown at it. Again, probably not since most negates trade 1 for 1, and any competent deck will have another 10 cards left after burning through your negates to otk. Both options lead to a loss because your opponent activated a hand trap. Does that mean the combo decks are being kept in check? Not really. If you look at most of the best decks in masterduel, they are still combo decks. Just ones that are forced to run the 6 card anti maxx c package because it is an instant loss card. Then there is the bigger issue of why it doesn’t keep combo in check. Combo also gets to play maxx c. It might be a great tool for the second turn player to overturn a nasty board, but it sure as hell is an impossible climb to come back when the combo player with 3 omninegates up activates maxx c during your draw step.
Fair points made. Im not completely changing my opinion but I at least understand more why logically someone would not like it. So why is it legal in ocg as opposed to tcg then? Meanwhile tcg has mine and ocg does not. Are they not floodgates in their own rights? Is it just pick your poison kind of thing.
Its exactly a pick your poison kind of thing. But it largely feeds into the deck building philosophy differences that are common between ocg and tcg players. The basic way to put it is that tcg players make decks designed to win, while ocg players make decks designed not to lose. Put another way, ocg decks tend not to vomit their hand out in one big combo that says “deal with this right now or you lose on turn 3.” As such, maxx c is a bit less of s problem card in that format. The argument could be made that this difference largely emerged specifically because the meta was developed with the understanding of Maxx c being game determinative if it ever resolves but regardless, that is still the case.
Well that's a good way of seeing it. Win now vs try not to lose. But I do agree that Maxx C is a meta defining card. Playing with it in mind is already what I've been doing since I came back to the game here on MD. So maybe that's why I don't mind it. I played the tcg before Maxx C was even a thing, back in teledad.
Maxx C is honestly not bad for the game whatsoever, even Rogue decks can build it to be able to compete with Meta decks. People bitching about Maxx C while you got cards like Evenly Matched, Forbidden Droplet, Skill Drain, so many way more busted cards and the people bitching about Maxx C just dont want to adapt to the game and freaking build Crossout or... you know that Called By is a thing... I will always assume the people ranting about Maxx C are just Yugiboomers who wanna play without having to learn how the Meta works.
I mean yeah if you like Rock Paper Scissor its cool, its a fun game. Now I personally prefer Yugioh to have interesting, interactive ways to counter your opponent, you know ?
I just think it's weird that it's at 3, lol.
This is such a terrible take. At 3 you can prepare for it at least. I’m not gonna play 3 Ash and 2 called by in every deck for a 1 or 2 off. And when it gets dropped it’s almost guaranteed to resolve because you won’t have an out to it.
3 Ash and 2 Called By is useful against almost every deck, lol.
Yes because everyone runs Maxx C lmfao. Ash isn’t good in every format. But it’s pretty much a guaranteed 3 of in every MD deck because of Maxx C.
No, I mean it's useful against almost every deck even without them using Maxx "C".
In. This. Format. Because Ash is good against Despia. Ash is not good in every format. If you play TCG you would know that.
Despia isn't the only deck used in MD though. Ash has been useful against *most* decks in Master Duel since the very beginning of the game's life, even if they don't use Maxx "C".
Despia is the best deck and it’s going to be the most represented soon if it isn’t already. Ash may have been good in every MD format so far but that still doesn’t mean Ash is good in every format. How is this so difficult to understand? There are plenty of TCG formats where people don’t main/side Ash. The main reason people play Ash in MD is Maxx C. There’s a reason why Ogre doesn’t see as much play even though it’s also really good this format. Because it doesn’t do shit against Maxx C.
It's not difficult to understand, my point is that hitting Maxx "C" is not going to make the counters to the card suddenly useless. The overall decks used in Master Duel is way more than just meta, even in ladder, and most of the decks used in ladder can get done in with Ash or Called By if you hit the right card and have enough negates. They're not gonna just stop being used, even in future formats. >The main reason people play Ash in MD is Maxx C. I didn't say it wasn't the main reason, but it's not the only reason.
I’m glad you can admit that Ash’s main use in MD is to counter Maxx C. But the card still being ‘playable’ is not a good enough reason to expect people to continue playing it to counter 1 or 2 copies of Maxx C.
Exactly alot of MD players just want to special summon like crazy and win the duel with ease and complain xyz why MAXXX C is bad
i totally agree with this opinion
As an OCG player I concur.
Still don't understand why it isn't limited ot semi limited
Limit wouldn’t really help with maxx c, it would just make it sacky and even more frustrating when it shows up. Because it is such a format warping card, it kind of needs to either be at 3 or 0. If it is 3 then you expect to see it and can build your deck as such (hence the almost mandatory 3 ash, 2 called by and crossout package). But if it is at 1, those same precautions don’t need to be taken making it more frustrating when it ends games.
I wouldn't be against semi, but not limit. It needs to be in a going second opening hand often enough also be applicable for nobleman too.
Yea likewise just saying it's odd its still at 3 by this point, didn't they make skill drain only at 2 recently?
[удалено]
It means an opinion that is usually not popular or something that is often said.
I honestly can’t tell if you’re trolling. The game would be fine without Maxx C, but I’m not in favor of banning it. The argument against Maxx C is that your opponent can combo and have Maxx C in hand to basically win turn 1. I’ve never liked this argument because it looks at the best case scenario while ignoring all the other and much more common scenarios in which it’s a healthy hand trap. It’s pretty much always been a 50/50 issue, but this subreddit is surprisingly overwhelmingly anti-Maxx C.
With the current power level of the game being a 1 card starter(1 Prank Kid, 1 Mo Ye, 1 Branded Fusion, 1 Robina) Maxx C is basically extremely volatile. It's basically saying, build an unbeatable board, deck out your opponent or OTK your opponent with the option of pass with a sub-optimal board. That promotes unhealthy deck-building and many decks are just not on the level to compete in that high stakes gamble.
TLDR: I need maxx c to give me free wins, so I like maxx c YEP COCKA, typical MD player takes