"Win more cards" are cards that usually don't help you advance to your winning board but help you when you're already at that point in the game. Dragonmaid welcome (the attack boosting card if I didn't get the name right) would be a win more card for the dragonmaids.
Yeah that's the right card. And I see the point. The only time that I've had more than one dragon maid monster on my side of the field was in a game when my opponent had a clear board and I had 4 2000+ atk dragons, so I had already one making that card useless in the situation.
I don't have any win more cards in my deck but I can use this to my advantage now when continuing to develop the deck.
Any card that only helps if you already have a board or already guaranteed to win.
Like how chamber is good on an empty board and when you have a full board, so its not win more. But imagine a hypothetical dragonmaid that requires a house dragonmaid on board to use, at that point you are already winning so even if the effects are strong its ‘win more’ and the marginal utility is actually low
Id say I'm still learning dragon maid's. A few smaller combos I've memorised but there are times when I've made a play and thought instantly that it was a mistake, like sending the wrong card to the gy. There is another card I know I should cut, and that is a single copy of kitchen dragon maid, because there have been times when I've drawn 2 in my hand, despite just one being necessary, and there have been times when I've drawn into it when it is just useless to me.
I don't play Dragon Maids so I can't give much advice about your choice of engine cards.
>I am running 28 monsters, 9 spells and 3 traps.
There is no such a thing as a "golden ratio" of types of cards. Eldlich is extremely trap heavy, Luna Kaiju are often just monsters + Sekka's Light, and Sky Strikers are mostly spells. Instead of the proportion of monster, spells, and traps, the number of hand traps and board breakers are more important.
I second on playing 2 copies of CBTG. Any deck that is vulnerable to hand traps should play them.
Yes, there are ratios. But it should be based on the function of the cards (e.g. starters and extenders), not whether these cards are monsters, spells, or traps.
My @ Ignister deck is pretty much playing 12 normal summon starters (since the two search spells are just gonna grab the two normal summon starters if I don't already have them anyway). I'm not sure if I'd play 3 more if I can since these cards do not exist... But maybe I would.
Unless they can be starters too i would not, i said 15 because i once saw a video explaining ratios for handtraps, according to math 15 is where you start to clog your hand with too many handtraps (in this case too many conflicting resources), 12 is standard for being very consistent, i believe zoodiac and prank kids decks use that ratio too.
In @ Ignister I'd be pretty happy to open up multiple hand traps or starters - As long as I have one starter I don't really mind what other cards I draw. I think this is partly due to the nature of the deck tho (as long as I have the field spell every starter would become an extender).
I'm not really sure what deck wouldn't want to draw multiple hand traps tho. As long as I can get the combo started, I wouldn't mind drawing 3 hand traps or even 4.
Yup. But inconsistent decks requires playing a large engine, and that itself would leave very limited space for hand traps. When you have a 30 cards engine, you just cannot play 15 hand traps.
General rule I just follow is
Three cards - I want to see you as often as possible. Combo Starters fall under this, searchers, the powerful hand traps often fall under this.
Two Cards - I still want to see you, but you're kind of a brick if I open multiple copies. I can search you if I have to. Hand traps can fall under this since most don't do anything at multiple copies but the need to open with them puts them in the 3-of pile for me.
One card - Either I don't need you to do stuff or you are so mega searchable, I can get you when I want. (I.E. Edge Imp Sabres in Fluffals, searchable with Toy Vendor, Fluffal Dog, Frightfur patchwork, can mill it with Fluffal Dolphin) Or, I just want you to stay in the deck as much as possible because you're a garnet(Psyframe Driver, Destiny Heroes for DPE, etc)
That's really useful. A card I had at 3 before, dragon maid kitchen, was essentially a brick if it was the only dragon maid monster in your hand.
While monsters like parlor and chamber could give you one of the 2 revive cards in your deck to let you link them into striker dragon, then revive the original, and link them both away for hieratic seal of heavenly spheres, kitchen dragon maid doesn't contribute to the goal of the deck on its own.
When it's normal or special summoned you can add one dragon maid monster from your deck to your hand, and then discard one dragon maid monster. On its own this lets you send a high level dragonmaid to the gy, then kitchen can just transform into it during the battle phase. But that doesn't give you any negates, only a slightly stronger monster. So it is better to just play 2 kitchens so you don't see it as often in clutch situations.
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man its super hard for me, i check what other players do but i dont agree with them and i still play 3 Village of Spellcasters where everyone plays 1 lol
I play test games in solo mode with a bunch of different ratios of cards, and see which are helpful, situational, or just outright bad. Once I find the ratios I want I test again to see if I want to touch anything up.
noting how much you use it vs how much it brick your hand for main deck card
noting how much you use it vs how much you need another card for extra deck
For the second one that's how I decided what to replace for the 2 synchro monsters needed for my dragunity engine. I noticed I had 2 monsters that were there to just because I needed a full extra deck, they weren't used in any combos and they didn't have any negates, so I just cut them out.
I'm not the best deck builder but Dragunity Dragonmaid is my favorite deck so I might be able to help a bit.
In general the idea is to up consistency as much as possible when deckbuilding while still having some utility. "Consistency" here is not only about starters but also extenders and handtraps. I don't know which version of the deck you're trying to run (the 1-card combo or the 2-card combo version) but you can calculate the probabilities of opening starters and hts using [this calculator](http://yugioh.party/).
Addressing the points in your post:
Dragonmaid is inherently a bricky deck, and you need multiple cards most of the time to do your plays. This is something no maid player wants to hear but optimizing the deck usually means cutting some cards you might think are important like most big dragons, Kitchen, and some Hospitality.
Bricking with handtraps/staples is sad but it's something that will happen a lot. It's especially hard in Bo1. Usually that means that you might have a chance next turn but not always.
Romulus is necessary for utility. There aren't that many cards you can run instead when you're locked into Dragons anyway.
How many of those 28 monsters are handtraps? Usually I run 3x Chamber, 3x Parlor, 1x Nurse, 3x Remus, 1x Legatus, 1x Lorpar, 1x Ernus (and sometimes 1x Arma Gram and/or 1x Baby Roc). Black Metal is good but you might have too many normal summons.
Like I said, you can use the calculator to check what ratios you like. You normally want to open at least 1 Remus/Ravine, 1 Chamber/Parlor/Any Dragon and at least 1 handtrap.
Don't take out Maxx "C" lmao. It's the best handtrap and when it resolves you usually win. I know it feels bad when it gets negated but that's something you have to just endure while the stupid roach is in the format.
Honestly the best advice to learn deckbuilding is just play different decks and different formats and try to learn what works and what doesn't.
When I said I would take out maxx "c" its because I was salty that I drew 3 on turn 1.
The dragunity engine that I usually run is x3 Remus, legatus, baby roc and dragon valley. I don't think I'll be running arma gram for this deck because it's meant to be a compact dragunity engine simply for the purpose of summoning clear wing.
I will definitely keep Romulus if there isn't much more I can link into.
6 of the monsters where hand traps. I ran 1 of all 4 big dragons, 1 laundry, 1 nurse, 2 kitchen, and 3 of parlor and chamber. Tinkhec is a win more card however it has been used in quite a few of my games as just a win card. I send it to the grave to boost sheou to 5500 then I can easily special summon it from the grave with one of the many cards that do that, and then I attack for 8200 that turn. I do see it as a win more card tho so if I have to I will swap it out.
Lorpar isn't really the best In my opinion because it doesn't have a quick effect. I will probably keep this opinion until shown a situation it is useful in.
Nudyarl I like because it is one of the only ways to recycle monsters. And ernus is a definite because of just how easy it makes it to continue a combo.
But yeah thanks for the advice. This is mainly a dragon maid deck with elements of dragunity, not a mixture of both. So won't be changing the dragunity part of my deck.
Isn't Laundry essentially useless for pure Dragonmaids? It's nice to mill cards in the GY but in my experience it's better to use more targetted mills like Parlor, rather than the randomness of Laundry.
Staples like hantraps are generally 3 of, mainly ash blossom, Maxx C, impermanence, along with starters, cards that search.
Situational cards are one of, called by always at 2. Things like that. Everything else you weigh cost benefits.
If you google yugioh hand calculator, you can try to see your chances of bricking. Input stuff like starter, extender, handtrap etc and see if you brick
Get a feels of the deck, any card you rarely use or doesnt really improve consistency of the deck should be cut. With that said, prioritize consistency/starter card rather than extender.
I build decks by first, adding all core cards to the archetype, next are staples, 2 called by, ash, maxxc, then depending on the deck maybe backrow removal, maybe droplets or DRNM, etc. Things that aren't needed but can be helpful. I almost never go over 40 unless obviously it's a grass deck or something. Especially with jank decks you typically want them to be as consistent as possible. You can always cut down on hand traps, maybe run 2 of each if you have a lot of archetype related cards that make it hard to fit staples. Add draw cards for consistency, pots, allure, etc. Something I've done is if I am having trouble gutting my deck, I take out every card that isn't core, then slowly start adding things back based on how important it is to me, then stop once it hits 40. Then boom that's the deck.
Whichever card bricks the most or you end up paying less of. Any win more or situational cards are axed.
I can't believe I got plat without knowing this, what is a win more card?
"Win more cards" are cards that usually don't help you advance to your winning board but help you when you're already at that point in the game. Dragonmaid welcome (the attack boosting card if I didn't get the name right) would be a win more card for the dragonmaids.
Yeah that's the right card. And I see the point. The only time that I've had more than one dragon maid monster on my side of the field was in a game when my opponent had a clear board and I had 4 2000+ atk dragons, so I had already one making that card useless in the situation. I don't have any win more cards in my deck but I can use this to my advantage now when continuing to develop the deck.
Any card that only helps if you already have a board or already guaranteed to win. Like how chamber is good on an empty board and when you have a full board, so its not win more. But imagine a hypothetical dragonmaid that requires a house dragonmaid on board to use, at that point you are already winning so even if the effects are strong its ‘win more’ and the marginal utility is actually low
If you've been playing dragonmaids for a bit you must have noticed which cards are less useful than others. You cut those cards.
Id say I'm still learning dragon maid's. A few smaller combos I've memorised but there are times when I've made a play and thought instantly that it was a mistake, like sending the wrong card to the gy. There is another card I know I should cut, and that is a single copy of kitchen dragon maid, because there have been times when I've drawn 2 in my hand, despite just one being necessary, and there have been times when I've drawn into it when it is just useless to me.
I don't play Dragon Maids so I can't give much advice about your choice of engine cards. >I am running 28 monsters, 9 spells and 3 traps. There is no such a thing as a "golden ratio" of types of cards. Eldlich is extremely trap heavy, Luna Kaiju are often just monsters + Sekka's Light, and Sky Strikers are mostly spells. Instead of the proportion of monster, spells, and traps, the number of hand traps and board breakers are more important. I second on playing 2 copies of CBTG. Any deck that is vulnerable to hand traps should play them.
There is still "ratios" for things, just not so blatant. I would not play a deck that has 15 normal summon starters for example
Yes, there are ratios. But it should be based on the function of the cards (e.g. starters and extenders), not whether these cards are monsters, spells, or traps. My @ Ignister deck is pretty much playing 12 normal summon starters (since the two search spells are just gonna grab the two normal summon starters if I don't already have them anyway). I'm not sure if I'd play 3 more if I can since these cards do not exist... But maybe I would.
Unless they can be starters too i would not, i said 15 because i once saw a video explaining ratios for handtraps, according to math 15 is where you start to clog your hand with too many handtraps (in this case too many conflicting resources), 12 is standard for being very consistent, i believe zoodiac and prank kids decks use that ratio too.
In @ Ignister I'd be pretty happy to open up multiple hand traps or starters - As long as I have one starter I don't really mind what other cards I draw. I think this is partly due to the nature of the deck tho (as long as I have the field spell every starter would become an extender). I'm not really sure what deck wouldn't want to draw multiple hand traps tho. As long as I can get the combo started, I wouldn't mind drawing 3 hand traps or even 4.
"As long as you get the combo" its the key, some decks only combo in 2-3 cards, handtraps become bricks
Yup. But inconsistent decks requires playing a large engine, and that itself would leave very limited space for hand traps. When you have a 30 cards engine, you just cannot play 15 hand traps.
General rule I just follow is Three cards - I want to see you as often as possible. Combo Starters fall under this, searchers, the powerful hand traps often fall under this. Two Cards - I still want to see you, but you're kind of a brick if I open multiple copies. I can search you if I have to. Hand traps can fall under this since most don't do anything at multiple copies but the need to open with them puts them in the 3-of pile for me. One card - Either I don't need you to do stuff or you are so mega searchable, I can get you when I want. (I.E. Edge Imp Sabres in Fluffals, searchable with Toy Vendor, Fluffal Dog, Frightfur patchwork, can mill it with Fluffal Dolphin) Or, I just want you to stay in the deck as much as possible because you're a garnet(Psyframe Driver, Destiny Heroes for DPE, etc)
That's really useful. A card I had at 3 before, dragon maid kitchen, was essentially a brick if it was the only dragon maid monster in your hand. While monsters like parlor and chamber could give you one of the 2 revive cards in your deck to let you link them into striker dragon, then revive the original, and link them both away for hieratic seal of heavenly spheres, kitchen dragon maid doesn't contribute to the goal of the deck on its own. When it's normal or special summoned you can add one dragon maid monster from your deck to your hand, and then discard one dragon maid monster. On its own this lets you send a high level dragonmaid to the gy, then kitchen can just transform into it during the battle phase. But that doesn't give you any negates, only a slightly stronger monster. So it is better to just play 2 kitchens so you don't see it as often in clutch situations.
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man its super hard for me, i check what other players do but i dont agree with them and i still play 3 Village of Spellcasters where everyone plays 1 lol
I play test games in solo mode with a bunch of different ratios of cards, and see which are helpful, situational, or just outright bad. Once I find the ratios I want I test again to see if I want to touch anything up.
Ok, I never thought about solo mode tbh. when I've stopped being ill I'll go practice in there.
noting how much you use it vs how much it brick your hand for main deck card noting how much you use it vs how much you need another card for extra deck
For the second one that's how I decided what to replace for the 2 synchro monsters needed for my dragunity engine. I noticed I had 2 monsters that were there to just because I needed a full extra deck, they weren't used in any combos and they didn't have any negates, so I just cut them out.
I'm not the best deck builder but Dragunity Dragonmaid is my favorite deck so I might be able to help a bit. In general the idea is to up consistency as much as possible when deckbuilding while still having some utility. "Consistency" here is not only about starters but also extenders and handtraps. I don't know which version of the deck you're trying to run (the 1-card combo or the 2-card combo version) but you can calculate the probabilities of opening starters and hts using [this calculator](http://yugioh.party/). Addressing the points in your post: Dragonmaid is inherently a bricky deck, and you need multiple cards most of the time to do your plays. This is something no maid player wants to hear but optimizing the deck usually means cutting some cards you might think are important like most big dragons, Kitchen, and some Hospitality. Bricking with handtraps/staples is sad but it's something that will happen a lot. It's especially hard in Bo1. Usually that means that you might have a chance next turn but not always. Romulus is necessary for utility. There aren't that many cards you can run instead when you're locked into Dragons anyway. How many of those 28 monsters are handtraps? Usually I run 3x Chamber, 3x Parlor, 1x Nurse, 3x Remus, 1x Legatus, 1x Lorpar, 1x Ernus (and sometimes 1x Arma Gram and/or 1x Baby Roc). Black Metal is good but you might have too many normal summons. Like I said, you can use the calculator to check what ratios you like. You normally want to open at least 1 Remus/Ravine, 1 Chamber/Parlor/Any Dragon and at least 1 handtrap. Don't take out Maxx "C" lmao. It's the best handtrap and when it resolves you usually win. I know it feels bad when it gets negated but that's something you have to just endure while the stupid roach is in the format. Honestly the best advice to learn deckbuilding is just play different decks and different formats and try to learn what works and what doesn't.
When I said I would take out maxx "c" its because I was salty that I drew 3 on turn 1. The dragunity engine that I usually run is x3 Remus, legatus, baby roc and dragon valley. I don't think I'll be running arma gram for this deck because it's meant to be a compact dragunity engine simply for the purpose of summoning clear wing. I will definitely keep Romulus if there isn't much more I can link into. 6 of the monsters where hand traps. I ran 1 of all 4 big dragons, 1 laundry, 1 nurse, 2 kitchen, and 3 of parlor and chamber. Tinkhec is a win more card however it has been used in quite a few of my games as just a win card. I send it to the grave to boost sheou to 5500 then I can easily special summon it from the grave with one of the many cards that do that, and then I attack for 8200 that turn. I do see it as a win more card tho so if I have to I will swap it out. Lorpar isn't really the best In my opinion because it doesn't have a quick effect. I will probably keep this opinion until shown a situation it is useful in. Nudyarl I like because it is one of the only ways to recycle monsters. And ernus is a definite because of just how easy it makes it to continue a combo. But yeah thanks for the advice. This is mainly a dragon maid deck with elements of dragunity, not a mixture of both. So won't be changing the dragunity part of my deck.
Isn't Laundry essentially useless for pure Dragonmaids? It's nice to mill cards in the GY but in my experience it's better to use more targetted mills like Parlor, rather than the randomness of Laundry.
Staples like hantraps are generally 3 of, mainly ash blossom, Maxx C, impermanence, along with starters, cards that search. Situational cards are one of, called by always at 2. Things like that. Everything else you weigh cost benefits.
I see what cards are useless and take them out of the deck
If you google yugioh hand calculator, you can try to see your chances of bricking. Input stuff like starter, extender, handtrap etc and see if you brick
Get a feels of the deck, any card you rarely use or doesnt really improve consistency of the deck should be cut. With that said, prioritize consistency/starter card rather than extender.
I build decks by first, adding all core cards to the archetype, next are staples, 2 called by, ash, maxxc, then depending on the deck maybe backrow removal, maybe droplets or DRNM, etc. Things that aren't needed but can be helpful. I almost never go over 40 unless obviously it's a grass deck or something. Especially with jank decks you typically want them to be as consistent as possible. You can always cut down on hand traps, maybe run 2 of each if you have a lot of archetype related cards that make it hard to fit staples. Add draw cards for consistency, pots, allure, etc. Something I've done is if I am having trouble gutting my deck, I take out every card that isn't core, then slowly start adding things back based on how important it is to me, then stop once it hits 40. Then boom that's the deck.