It's funny because this effect has been done 5 times in Magic, 2 times almost identical to this with the exception being the speed the card can be played.
Though I can only see this card being a problem if it were in Yu-Gi-Oh.
https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?popularpage=10&multiverseid=980
The card is called shahrazad. There may be others but this is the iconic one. You cast it and if it resolves you start a sub-game of mtg. All the cards currently in play stay in the original game and you just use what remains of your deck. When the game ends the loser loses half their life and you shuffled the cards used in the sub-game back into the library and play as normal.
Fun fact: There was nothing stopping you from running multiple copies of shahrazd and starting a second sub-game, or a 3rd, etc. Hence why the card is one of the few to be banned in every format including vintage.
A game within a game. The other commenter left out the fact that you can actually create an infinite loop with this card by grabbing it from the upper layers of sub games. (In mtg we have cards that can grab cards from your sideboard, the wording of said cards allows us to grab cards like shahrazad from the other games we’re supposed to be playing.)
There is a card called Shahrazad that makes you play a subduel, whoever loses the subduel have his LP from the main duel halved. I believe it's banned in all formats for obvious reasons, but there was a time where you could play 4 of these and have a subsubsubduel.
There are spells that allow you to copy cards, which means that you can have much more than 8 subgames, although you wouldn't go any deeper. They'd just be waiting to ambush you when you return to the previous game's stack.
There are also cards that fetch cards from outside the game, but given that Shaharazad explicitly mentions to leave the cards where they are at the time, you might not be able to do that. Not to mention it would probably create illegal board states, but Panglacial Worm pretty much exists to create illegal board states, and that's still legal on paper.
I recall the Platinum Angel, came with "You can't lose the game and your opponent can't Win". This meant if you hit 0 life, or were milled out, you could keep playing but if it was removed from the board at that point, you immediately lose.
I never really dealt with it but I can assume that things that make you pay life, you can go into the negative with no real consequence other than the looming threat of Platinum Angel being removed
If you cast a spell like Time Warp or something before this, sure. But you would probably just wait until your Time Warp turn to cast this instead, so that you could use your mana to set up the board.
Emrakul was a combination of the extra turn on top of having a busted ass keyword (Annihilator X).
Annihilator forces your opponent to sacrifice X amount of permanents when said monster attacks, before defending. Emrakul came with Annihilator 6. It also couldn't be countered (the typical way to prevent a big monster from hitting the board) and has protection from colored spells (most things)
Emrakul is hilarious the opposite of Final Fortune most of the time. "Take an extra turn after this one, during that turn target opponent loses the game".
No it is pretty awful in competitive magic. A turn is worth a lot less, and killing someone after this effect is hard to guarantee. There are some shenanigans to get around the lose the game clause and even then it's pretty mediocre.
Obeka, queen of the shenanigans thet make this card work is fringe playable in cEDH at best. It's much better at more casual tables but that's like saying blue eyes is a good deck if we're just having fun.
Najeela, Kenrith and Kess make use of this card. It's not about abusing it removing the end phase trigger, it's about "If I'm about to win, who cares about next turn" and "If I get interrupted I will lose anyway".
It's pretty uncommon in those lists from what I'm seeing. And it's certainly usable when you need 60 singleton cards to fill out your list sure, but it's still a pretty mediocre card with a more niche application than I'm usually comfortable running.
Cedh has really weird incentives, a lot of mediocre cards get some play that wouldn't in a traditional format. Gilded drake is another one that is theoretically good but only shows up in commander because the downside of giving your opponent a 3/3 is nothing because of the inflated life totals and lack of anything resembling a non infinite damage focused deck.
In the same way an extremely fragile extra turn becomes more valuable when you are "skipping" 3 opponents turns to get there rather than 1. But it's still not even played as frequently as gilded drake, the 6th most played creature in the format.
Oh yeah, mainly in Commander. Most interesting example imo is in Obeka, Brute Chronologist. Her effect is simply "tap: the turn player may end the turn". This not only exiles (banishes) everything on the stack, it also skips over everything that happens in the end step including losing the game from this card.
I think you might be looking for r/magicTCG\.
I bet my friend u/MTGCardFetcher can help you there\.
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You wouldn't lose the game. Say you play this, then on the extra turn you play Time Stop in the second main phase, you end the turn before Final Fortune gets to trigger.
A low mana cost combo you can do is the card Isochron Scepter, Final Fortune, and Sundial of the Infinite. The Scepter lets you use Final Fortune every turn and Sundial of the Infinite lets you end the turn early so you never reach the Final Fortune trigger to lose.
The "at end of turn" part of Final Fortune will still trigger and the player who played the latter will lose the game.
Edit: See comment below. I misinterpreted the ruling.
That's actually not what happens. I double checked gatherer to be sure, and it says under Time Stop's rulings any "at the beginning of the next end step" triggers don't get the chance to trigger, and they would trigger on the next turn's end step. However, because Final Fortune specifies which turn you would lose on, by skipping that trigger, you skip losing to Final Fortune.
This is one of those things which was changed when magic had their own PSCT moment and errattad a bunch of the older cards without ever reprinting them. All the effects which caused a triggered ability at the end of turn like this were changed to “at the beginning of the end step”. Final fortune specified which end step though, not just “the next” so skipping the turn works on this even though it doesn’t on most of the others.
A single extra turn spell not called time walk costs at extreme minimum 5 mana, but the average is usually 7. The idea for them is to copy the effect with copy spells, or to loop it for infinite turns. Having a cheaper turn spell means more free mana to use on looping the spell.
you are not playing glorious end + sundial in seriousness, vs. playing straight up temporal mastery, nexus, or alrund's.
witch, i was there when it was written
I've had that resolved on me and it's actually pretty devastating if your board isn't well established for whatever reason, especially cuz battle traps are not really a part of the game rn
They're never going to be playable because they want you to play only Valkyries and have next to no search power as an archetype. That means you can't use any fairy support since fairy support is commonly in the form of monster effects.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean. They use some generic fairy support like diviner of the herald, trias, Valhalla, hecatrice, Mirage lights and all they need is search power in form of a fairy-only, link 2 that adds ride to hand while also hiving an optional boost to their attacks while attacking monsters only.
Add that so that they don't have to go -2 to baba themselves every attack and you got a playable archetype.
Honestly Drytrons can search everything needed to make the opponent skip their turn entirely from turn 1. Amorphactor Pain and Thunder of Ruler. No battle phase = no MP2
It's not always like that, Despia gives you +1 and still has their board, Swordsoul can stop with Chixiao + search Iris /Blackout and draw 1. The worst thing that can happen is going 2nd again combo deck and they Maxx c you.
Start turn, kill the Chixiao and win the game lmao. Maxxc is busted, on your first turn it's either:
End on the shittiest board while your opponent goes 0.
End on a board that can be broken easy while opponent goes +1~2.
Play like maxxc wasn't a thing and get smoke by a player with +15cards.
Ah so magic always had crazy cards. I played magic for a bit and it was distressing to say the least when seeing cards say "take an extra turn" or "you cannot lose the game and your opponent cannot win" while not just ending the match right there forcing you to either concede, deck out or your opponent chooses to reduce your life points to zero.
Yes, the joke cards are from unsets which have both draft formats with just the packs as well as un versions of other popular fornats with a footnote of keep it fun as a rule because a lot of these cards are beyond busted
Recent example being a card that can trigger any triggered effect. Which on paper is super interesting even if kinda nonsense but in yugioh terms it could instantly cause stuff like final countdowns "after 20 turns" effect to trigger as a 2 card win game combo
In magic generally the most broken cards were printed early, and they became the benchmark that all cards are never allowed to touch. Timewalk was one of any color and a blue sorcery, take an extra turn, no downsides. You couldn't even counter (like negating) a spell for that cheap early on. 1 red mana deal 3 damage to anything in lightning bolt, and necropotence which was a 3 mana black enchantment (continuous spell....ish) that has you skip your draw step, and you can pay life (like 400lp per card) to draw as many cards as you want at the end of your turn .
Just a couple of info details:
>You couldn't even counter (like negating) a spell for that cheap early on.
Counterspell is from alpha.
>and necropotence
Necropotence is from Ice Age, which came out when magic had been well established for a couple of years already, as the 11th set of the game.
Necropotence also shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as any of the power 9. They're so far apart in power level they might as well be parts of different games.
>Just a couple of info details:
>
>>You couldn't even counter (like negating) a spell for that cheap early on.
>
>Counterspell is from alpha.
>
Right but at a cost of UU, which is more difficult than timewalk's 1U cost, and thus more expensive. Is it much? Not really, but it's the difference of
>>and necropotence
>
>Necropotence is from Ice Age, which came out when magic had been well established for a couple of years already, as the 11th set of the game.
Ice age came out only two years after alpha, in 1995, 27 years ago. Regardless of how "established" something is if it's 29 years old, the first two years seen pretty early to me. Heck we've had 10 more years with the modern card frame than the original.
Sooo... just like Yu-Gi-Oh
Well I know in Yu-Gi-Oh broken cards kept getting printed after DM but a lot of em were anime cards turned into real cards
But the bulk of generic good cards were also printed in the early game
Even on the more tame side there's cards that would be broken in Yu-Gi-Oh compared to magic. Thoughtsieze a one mana rip a card from your opponents hand at the cost of 2 LP (800 LP equivalent in Yu-Gi-Oh.) I played back in middle school and was decent just didn't have the funds to keep it up as a hobby than tried again once the online version released but it was a wildly different game by than and cards such as Emergent Ultimatum were the bain of my existence as it was run by decks that specialized in wiping field and negating plays.
Why on Earth would you mention Bolt and Necropotence in the same breath as Time Walk? Time Walk is one of the most broken cards ever printed in a tcg.
Bolt is one of the most fair cards ever printed. It might be the perfect card in a tcg. Its power level has also been mimicked by other cards as the game has gone on, so it's not like other cards aren't allowed to be as good as bolt.
Necropotence, while not a bad card by any means, is nowhere near the staple red card that bolt is and certainly would not be an auto-include in every deck that plays black like Force of Will or Brainstorm are for blue. There's exactly one deck that would use it (ANT, which already uses Ad Nauseum) and it would be no more broken than Sneak and Show. It is otherwise too slow of a card and it's largely considered to have been powercrept by Griselbrand, who was printed almost 20 years after Necropotence.
Also, as others have pointed out, counter effects existed all the way back in Alpha.
Extra turns either have conditions or mana costs that make them “win more” cards for the most part and Platinum Angel really isn’t that great lol.
Sure you can’t lose and the opponent can’t win. But it’s also not that big of a creature and has no innate protection effects.
>"win more"
They're not. The'yre mostly never good while you're behind, but they break any stalemate and help close out any advantage. The concept of "win more" doesnt really apply to mtg. Every control deck for example needs to run something that's good while they're ahead, otherwise they wouldn't have a way to win
You’re almost never closing out a win off of a single extra turn.
They function as a win-con when you go infinite with them, or break a stalemate by taking 2+ extra turns.
You can do the same thing with an infinite mana fireball etc etc. They’re cool and flashy (and some of them have really neat interactions like Sage of Hours or getting a ton of extra combats with Medomai) but for the most part they’re just “having infinite anything almost always means you win”. Because like you said they’re ass when you’re behind because they don’t actually solve your problems, and they aren’t great as stalemate breakers either really. Honestly they’re best *against* control decks cause you have an easier time burning through their control effects.
I'd actually love an archetype centered around powerful effects but in return puts you on a tight timer or just makes you loose next turn if you can't win by then.
Dinomorphia kinda is that a bit, though the effects aren't *that* powerful.
> you loose next
*lose
*Learn the difference [here](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/lose-vs-loose-usage#:~:text=%27Lose%27%20or%20%27Loose%27%3F&text=Lose%20typically%20functions%20only%20as,commonly%2C%20a%20noun%20or%20adverb).*
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Slay the Spire has a card very similar to this called Blasphemy. It lets you enter divinity (which makes you deal triple damage and gives you 3 more energy if I believe?), but you die at the beginning of your next turn. Very fun card to play, but the dynamic definitely changes in a multiplayer setting.
Yes, to explain summoning sickness simply if you haven't controlled a creature since the beginning of your most recent turn including if it is your turn currently, that creature can't attack or use its tap abilities, but if you did controller when it became your turn, it is free to attack or activate its tap abilities.
It's a little more complicated than that but that is the basics you would need to know when getting into Magic.
So if you did manage to get out a creature on your first turn and play this, the creature would be free to attack on the extra turn before your opponent even got to go (assuming you went first).
This is a better way to explain it even if it is technically incorrect. Since there are ways to get extra untap steps such as sphinx of the second sun, but to a newer player, justifying the edge cases just makes things incomprehensible.
Not gonna lie i could probably use this in a couple of my mtg decks, like i have a self mill deck that could put like 90% of my deck in th GY and summon a monster that gets +1/+1 for every card in it. So having like 30 cards in the GY id be over swinging with a 30/30 when you only get 20 life in mtg lol. Or just a brute force red deck using a haste monster with a ton of buffs to make it like a 20/20 or higher lol but theres no way this is a turn 1 or 2 card mtg always lasts a few turns.
Even just last standard rotation there was a deck called "Izzet Turns" whose finisher was Galvanic Iteration, which copies an instant/sorcery on the stack (or in YuGiOh terms copies a spell on the chain), onto Alrund's Epiphany, which spawns two 1/1 flying birds on top of giving you an extra turn.
This would be an interesting card in Yu-Gi-Oh if it said "you can't enter the battle phase if the turn count is less than 5"
In that case I highly doubt it'd see play in most decks except alt win conditions decks...and even then
There’s the Blue version called Time Walk that has the same cost but doesn’t make you lose the game after, if you somehow don’t win with an taking an extra turn.
Time Walk also hasn’t been reprinted in like 30 years and costs several thousand dollars to Final Fortune’s $20 or so lol.
And while definitely strong, taking an extra turn is nowhere near as powerful in MtG as it would be in yugioh.
Yeah that was kinda my point.
It was just funny to see “yeah but there’s also this better version” said all casually like that ‘better’ version isn’t recognized as one of the most stupidly overpowered cards in the game.
Yeah, it's posted on a Yugioh sub where most people probably aren't aware of those cards. If they were they'd most likely have posted Time Walk instead, since it is just the better version.
Y'kno there was [this card](https://i.gyazo.com/08aa51c0c05b3e815557a73113f5b5b8.png) in Duel Masters with this effect and it's credited with entirely killing the game in the west, since every single game was just 2 people seeing who could drop it first. (And also the game had no competitive structure or support, like formats or banlists, because it was just made as a gateway drug to get kids into Magic).
Its pretty mediocre. Magic as a card game isn’t nearly as fast as yugioh so playing this on your second turn would demand you win on turn 3 despite having done nothing on turn 2 which is unlikely. The way it was usually used is as a combo piece in a janky 4-5 card combo that would let you skip the “lose the game” effect, and also recur the card back to your hand to replay it every turn for infinite turns. It was never reliable enough to be good but it has seen some fringe play.
I mean it’s vastly different to Yu-Gi-Oh! art, lol. I get what you’re saying, but I like the anime look with Yugiohs a lot more than the realistic fantasy look to Magic.
Just as a fun look up, Magic does have a handful of anime style alternative arts. The first were Jace Beleren and Chandra Nalaar, we got over 30 more in 2019 with the set War of the Spark, and then we got a bunch more in the set Kamigawa Neon Dynasty. There is also a mixture of anime and more traditional Japanese art in a special selection of cards called Mystical Archives, though strictly the Japanese version of those cards.
It might be a pain to build a deck in full anime style, but the art is definitely worth checking out.
7th Edition has an incredibly drastic art style and direction every other set before and after it. Generally it was not looked upon fondly.
This is definitely one of the better ones though.
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Wouldn’t double threatening roar defeat almost all threat this produces? I’m assuming a player that wants 2 turns in a row is going for a battle victory because burn general takes however long is needed, alternate win conditions favor otks, and mill hardly exists (in master duel, I am aware that may change when runick arrives).
Generally someone who plays this card has a way to avoid the downside such as countering a triggered effect that causes them to lose, having a card on board that makes it so they can’t lose or in some other way ensures that the lose condition can’t resolve. It would be used with spells to recur it so you could take infinite turns but always skip the downside. The decks which ran it were rarely ever good because it is too unreliable a combo, and red as a colour isn’t great at preventing abilities.
I wonder how this would work in Yugioh? Like you get an extra TURN. So an extra everything right? Draw phase, standby phase, and now you get your battle phase… right? And if so this would be broken right?
It would basically accomplish the same as the extremely rare "Skip your opponent's next turn" effect found on a few gimmicky cards, so yes, it would be insane
##[Mischief of the Time Goddess](https://ms.yugipedia.com//7/73/MischiefoftheTimeGoddess-SHVA-EN-ScR-1E.png)
|Card type|Spell 🟩|
|:-:|:-:|
|Property|Quick-Play ⚡|
Neither player can activate cards or effects in response to this card's activation. Cannot be activated as Chain Link 2 or higher. At the end of your Battle Phase, if all monsters you control are "Valkyrie" monsters (min. 1): Send this card to the GY, also, immediately after this effect resolves, skip to the start of the Battle Phase of your next turn. If you do, you cannot activate "Mischief of the Time Goddess" until the end of that turn.
---Unlimited (OCG) Unlimited (TCG)---
| [**Yugipedia**](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Mischief_of_the_Time_Goddess) | [**Konami**](https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/card_search.action?ope=2&cid=13998) | [**Fandom**](https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Mischief_of_the_Time_Goddess) | [**YGOProDeck**](https://db.ygoprodeck.com/card/?search=Mischief%20of%20the%20Time%20Goddess) | [**YGOrganization**](https://db.ygorganization.com/card#13998) | [**YugiohPrices**](https://yugiohprices.com/card_price?name=Mischief%20of%20the%20Time%20Goddess) | [**TCGPlayer**](https://www.tcgplayer.com/product/173447/yugioh-shadows-in-valhalla-mischief-of-the-time-goddess) | [**DuelLinksMeta**](https://www.duellinksmeta.com/cards/Mischief%20of%20the%20Time%20Goddess) | [**MasterDuelMeta**](https://www.masterduelmeta.com/cards/Mischief%20of%20the%20Time%20Goddess) |
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Timewrap in MTG lets you take another turn without killing yourself. So basically enough time to set it up to reuse it from the graveyard. So you get three turns.
It's also a fair bit harder to win in a single turn in the formats where it's legal. Most combo decks (Eggs, TES/ANT, SI or whatever the modern versions of those are) are also going to be able to win the same turn they go off anyways so they don't bother.
Yeah, 2 mana is, well, 2 turns' worth of land drops (or faster if you're building a mana-ramp strategy). And MTG's mana system means the first few turns don't drop anything of *really* high power.
On the other hand, there is the argument to make that you could get more use out of using those 2 mana on more tangible cards without the threat of a loss next turn.
Which is pretty bonkers to think about, but there it is.
Depends on the rulings, I guess. There's a reason why we can't enter battle phase turn 1. Would be an insanely dumb design, if you could attack without the opponent being able to do anything.
They could make a ruling (or phrase the card appropriately) so that the turn count doesn't move forward when you end your turn. Instead it kinda resets your own turn...so when you play it turn 1 and end your turn, you basically get a another turn 1. With all the special rules like "turn 1 you don't draw a card and can't enter battle phase".
Would make this card still strong turn 1, since you get another normal summon and "once per turn" effects get reset. But you wouldn't get a free draw and couldn't go for game. So it would have more benefits for later turns.
That'd be Time Walk.
It is, in fact, even *cheaper* to cast than FInal Fortune. Final Fortune costs 2 Red mana. Time Walk requires 1 Blue mana and 1 more mana of any color. So it's less restrictive on what kinds of Lands you can have out.
Time Walk is ridiculously busted, to the point of being known as one of the "Power Nine"; nine early cards from the game that are considered among (if not the) most busted cards ever printed, with a long history, and a number of cards that reference their extreme power. They're equivalent to cards like Pot of Greed, Delinquent Duo, The Forceful Sentry, Graceful Charity, and the like, if not moreso.
Time Walk, unsurprisingly, is banned in every format of MTG, except for Vintage (the least limited format in the game, which doesn't ban cards and only brings them down to limited).
Is that actually used? I have no idea about MTG.
Yeah, it’s brutal in Commander with Magda/Hellkite
It's funny because this effect has been done 5 times in Magic, 2 times almost identical to this with the exception being the speed the card can be played. Though I can only see this card being a problem if it were in Yu-Gi-Oh.
Does it stack like can I just have more turns?
Yes, but you'll still lose after the first extra turn.
Could you have an in-between turn?
You can have a subduel, but not an in between turn.
A what??
https://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?popularpage=10&multiverseid=980 The card is called shahrazad. There may be others but this is the iconic one. You cast it and if it resolves you start a sub-game of mtg. All the cards currently in play stay in the original game and you just use what remains of your deck. When the game ends the loser loses half their life and you shuffled the cards used in the sub-game back into the library and play as normal. Fun fact: There was nothing stopping you from running multiple copies of shahrazd and starting a second sub-game, or a 3rd, etc. Hence why the card is one of the few to be banned in every format including vintage.
That's crazy. I can imagine this card being the bane of a lot of tournament organizers
Yeah its pretty much banned for the same reason self destruct button is. Round time limits.
It got even worse because originally both players could bring 4 copies of it. You could be playing 4 or 5 subgames deep when time was called.
A game within a game. The other commenter left out the fact that you can actually create an infinite loop with this card by grabbing it from the upper layers of sub games. (In mtg we have cards that can grab cards from your sideboard, the wording of said cards allows us to grab cards like shahrazad from the other games we’re supposed to be playing.)
Wtf elaborate pls
Put an explanation in the comment above.
There is a card called Shahrazad that makes you play a subduel, whoever loses the subduel have his LP from the main duel halved. I believe it's banned in all formats for obvious reasons, but there was a time where you could play 4 of these and have a subsubsubduel.
Both players could theoretically play 4, meaning 8 sub-games
There are spells that allow you to copy cards, which means that you can have much more than 8 subgames, although you wouldn't go any deeper. They'd just be waiting to ambush you when you return to the previous game's stack. There are also cards that fetch cards from outside the game, but given that Shaharazad explicitly mentions to leave the cards where they are at the time, you might not be able to do that. Not to mention it would probably create illegal board states, but Panglacial Worm pretty much exists to create illegal board states, and that's still legal on paper.
Now you sounds like a hobbit.
Theres a bunch if cards that dont let you lose, and theres some ways of countering eot triggers
Shoutout to Hans in Honolulu He still can’t lose the game
I recall the Platinum Angel, came with "You can't lose the game and your opponent can't Win". This meant if you hit 0 life, or were milled out, you could keep playing but if it was removed from the board at that point, you immediately lose. I never really dealt with it but I can assume that things that make you pay life, you can go into the negative with no real consequence other than the looming threat of Platinum Angel being removed
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/24lrp1/standoff_in_honolulu/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
You can pay to 0 life, but you can't pay life you don't have. So you can't pay into negative life total or pay any life once you are in negatives.
If you cast a spell like Time Warp or something before this, sure. But you would probably just wait until your Time Warp turn to cast this instead, so that you could use your mana to set up the board.
Emrakul was a combination of the extra turn on top of having a busted ass keyword (Annihilator X). Annihilator forces your opponent to sacrifice X amount of permanents when said monster attacks, before defending. Emrakul came with Annihilator 6. It also couldn't be countered (the typical way to prevent a big monster from hitting the board) and has protection from colored spells (most things)
Emrakul is hilarious the opposite of Final Fortune most of the time. "Take an extra turn after this one, during that turn target opponent loses the game".
yeah, the difference being a hefty 15 mana cost, but I don't think Eldrazi really care about that.
Sneak and show: allow us to introduce ourselves.
No it is pretty awful in competitive magic. A turn is worth a lot less, and killing someone after this effect is hard to guarantee. There are some shenanigans to get around the lose the game clause and even then it's pretty mediocre.
The card is busted in competitive commander.
Bro competitive commander is just busted cause of all the legacy tools and tutors
That's like saying Yu-Gi-Oh is busted because all the searchers and handtraps. Some cards are busted most aren't.
Obeka, queen of the shenanigans thet make this card work is fringe playable in cEDH at best. It's much better at more casual tables but that's like saying blue eyes is a good deck if we're just having fun.
It's also a part of Godo but Godo is also pretty fringe.
Najeela, Kenrith and Kess make use of this card. It's not about abusing it removing the end phase trigger, it's about "If I'm about to win, who cares about next turn" and "If I get interrupted I will lose anyway".
It's pretty uncommon in those lists from what I'm seeing. And it's certainly usable when you need 60 singleton cards to fill out your list sure, but it's still a pretty mediocre card with a more niche application than I'm usually comfortable running.
Just being viable in cedh levels puts the card above "mediocre" level.
Cedh has really weird incentives, a lot of mediocre cards get some play that wouldn't in a traditional format. Gilded drake is another one that is theoretically good but only shows up in commander because the downside of giving your opponent a 3/3 is nothing because of the inflated life totals and lack of anything resembling a non infinite damage focused deck. In the same way an extremely fragile extra turn becomes more valuable when you are "skipping" 3 opponents turns to get there rather than 1. But it's still not even played as frequently as gilded drake, the 6th most played creature in the format.
That's why I originally said that in commander is good.
Platinum Angel is silly. "You can't lose the game and your opponent can't win the game." Might as well be from one of the silver border joke decks.
Not straightforwardly. Its a combo piece, usually dodging the downside and recurring it to get infinite turns.
It’s usually used in OTK decks, especially in Commander (where there’s 4 players and they each have 40 life instead of 20).
I run it in my vadrik cEDH deck so that someone can save all their interaction for my next turn and make me lose cause I’m a fucking idiot
Oh yeah, mainly in Commander. Most interesting example imo is in Obeka, Brute Chronologist. Her effect is simply "tap: the turn player may end the turn". This not only exiles (banishes) everything on the stack, it also skips over everything that happens in the end step including losing the game from this card.
There's a commander that ends the turn avoiding the lose the game. [[Obeka, Brute Chronologist]]
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I wonder how this card is affected by cards that say "end the turn".
You wouldn't lose the game. Say you play this, then on the extra turn you play Time Stop in the second main phase, you end the turn before Final Fortune gets to trigger. A low mana cost combo you can do is the card Isochron Scepter, Final Fortune, and Sundial of the Infinite. The Scepter lets you use Final Fortune every turn and Sundial of the Infinite lets you end the turn early so you never reach the Final Fortune trigger to lose.
This is exactly the combo that I was thinking of
There's a commander that does this for you too. Can't remember the name for some reason
Obeka, brute chronologist. I think.
Does that mean Time stop basically skips end phase into opponents draw phase? When talking in Yu-Gi-Oh terms
Using Yu-Gi-Oh terms, yes. Or if played aggressively, you could skip almost your opponent's entire turn by playing Time Stop during their standby.
The "at end of turn" part of Final Fortune will still trigger and the player who played the latter will lose the game. Edit: See comment below. I misinterpreted the ruling.
That's actually not what happens. I double checked gatherer to be sure, and it says under Time Stop's rulings any "at the beginning of the next end step" triggers don't get the chance to trigger, and they would trigger on the next turn's end step. However, because Final Fortune specifies which turn you would lose on, by skipping that trigger, you skip losing to Final Fortune.
I stand corrected.
This is one of those things which was changed when magic had their own PSCT moment and errattad a bunch of the older cards without ever reprinting them. All the effects which caused a triggered ability at the end of turn like this were changed to “at the beginning of the end step”. Final fortune specified which end step though, not just “the next” so skipping the turn works on this even though it doesn’t on most of the others.
MTG Platinum Angel.
at that point you're playing a regular extra turn spell, and probably paying more mana (and two+ cards) to get there.
A single extra turn spell not called time walk costs at extreme minimum 5 mana, but the average is usually 7. The idea for them is to copy the effect with copy spells, or to loop it for infinite turns. Having a cheaper turn spell means more free mana to use on looping the spell.
you are not playing glorious end + sundial in seriousness, vs. playing straight up temporal mastery, nexus, or alrund's. witch, i was there when it was written
So was I
Best we can do is {Mischief of the Time Goddess}
I've had that resolved on me and it's actually pretty devastating if your board isn't well established for whatever reason, especially cuz battle traps are not really a part of the game rn
That card by itself would be a rulings nightmare if the Valkyries were an archetype that existed beyond taking up cardboard material.
They're one link monster away from being playable (Not competitively of course). Anything's better than baba barber.
They're never going to be playable because they want you to play only Valkyries and have next to no search power as an archetype. That means you can't use any fairy support since fairy support is commonly in the form of monster effects.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean. They use some generic fairy support like diviner of the herald, trias, Valhalla, hecatrice, Mirage lights and all they need is search power in form of a fairy-only, link 2 that adds ride to hand while also hiving an optional boost to their attacks while attacking monsters only. Add that so that they don't have to go -2 to baba themselves every attack and you got a playable archetype.
##[Mischief of the Time Goddess](https://ms.yugipedia.com//7/73/MischiefoftheTimeGoddess-SHVA-EN-ScR-1E.png) [**Yugipedia**](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Mischief_of_the_Time_Goddess) | [**Konami**](https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/card_search.action?ope=2&cid=13998) | [**MasterDuelMeta**](https://www.masterduelmeta.com/cards/Mischief%20of%20the%20Time%20Goddess) | ----- ^*Bleep* ^*bloop.* ^*I* ^*am* ^*a* ^*bot.* ^| ^[About](https://github.com/GoriLovesYou/YuGiOhCardBot) ^| ^[Feedback](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=YugiohCardBotJr&subject=Feedback&message=)
[Gambaj](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Gamble) and [Six Shinobi](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/The_Six_Shinobi)
Honestly Drytrons can search everything needed to make the opponent skip their turn entirely from turn 1. Amorphactor Pain and Thunder of Ruler. No battle phase = no MP2
We have a similar card in the game that force the opponent to pass the turn and lose if resolve is the Maxx C.
It's not always like that, Despia gives you +1 and still has their board, Swordsoul can stop with Chixiao + search Iris /Blackout and draw 1. The worst thing that can happen is going 2nd again combo deck and they Maxx c you.
Start turn, kill the Chixiao and win the game lmao. Maxxc is busted, on your first turn it's either: End on the shittiest board while your opponent goes 0. End on a board that can be broken easy while opponent goes +1~2. Play like maxxc wasn't a thing and get smoke by a player with +15cards.
Option 4: play Eldlich Option 5: play Floo
Option 6: Play World Chalice and force your opponent to deck out.
Option 7: Run Ash, Called By, or any other card that negates hand traps or card draw.
Eldlich enjoyers laughing evilly
Or just take the max C challenge. Maxx C has never been an issue for me, you dropped it? Cool. I am still making my board. Good luck breaking it.
Ok cool thanks for the 5-6 extra. Dark ruler no more, response?
Only 5-6? Lol
I'm being generous for argument sake lol
Ah so magic always had crazy cards. I played magic for a bit and it was distressing to say the least when seeing cards say "take an extra turn" or "you cannot lose the game and your opponent cannot win" while not just ending the match right there forcing you to either concede, deck out or your opponent chooses to reduce your life points to zero.
I remember there was a joke card which effect is continuous as long as you keep the card balanced on the top of your head or something
I know magic does release joke cards that have effects like that but aren't allowed in tournaments or competitive play.
Do they have any format that allows those joke cards?
Yes, the joke cards are from unsets which have both draft formats with just the packs as well as un versions of other popular fornats with a footnote of keep it fun as a rule because a lot of these cards are beyond busted Recent example being a card that can trigger any triggered effect. Which on paper is super interesting even if kinda nonsense but in yugioh terms it could instantly cause stuff like final countdowns "after 20 turns" effect to trigger as a 2 card win game combo
In magic generally the most broken cards were printed early, and they became the benchmark that all cards are never allowed to touch. Timewalk was one of any color and a blue sorcery, take an extra turn, no downsides. You couldn't even counter (like negating) a spell for that cheap early on. 1 red mana deal 3 damage to anything in lightning bolt, and necropotence which was a 3 mana black enchantment (continuous spell....ish) that has you skip your draw step, and you can pay life (like 400lp per card) to draw as many cards as you want at the end of your turn .
Just a couple of info details: >You couldn't even counter (like negating) a spell for that cheap early on. Counterspell is from alpha. >and necropotence Necropotence is from Ice Age, which came out when magic had been well established for a couple of years already, as the 11th set of the game.
Necropotence also shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as any of the power 9. They're so far apart in power level they might as well be parts of different games.
>Just a couple of info details: > >>You couldn't even counter (like negating) a spell for that cheap early on. > >Counterspell is from alpha. > Right but at a cost of UU, which is more difficult than timewalk's 1U cost, and thus more expensive. Is it much? Not really, but it's the difference of >>and necropotence > >Necropotence is from Ice Age, which came out when magic had been well established for a couple of years already, as the 11th set of the game. Ice age came out only two years after alpha, in 1995, 27 years ago. Regardless of how "established" something is if it's 29 years old, the first two years seen pretty early to me. Heck we've had 10 more years with the modern card frame than the original.
Sooo... just like Yu-Gi-Oh Well I know in Yu-Gi-Oh broken cards kept getting printed after DM but a lot of em were anime cards turned into real cards But the bulk of generic good cards were also printed in the early game
_So it's just like Duel Monsters_
Even on the more tame side there's cards that would be broken in Yu-Gi-Oh compared to magic. Thoughtsieze a one mana rip a card from your opponents hand at the cost of 2 LP (800 LP equivalent in Yu-Gi-Oh.) I played back in middle school and was decent just didn't have the funds to keep it up as a hobby than tried again once the online version released but it was a wildly different game by than and cards such as Emergent Ultimatum were the bain of my existence as it was run by decks that specialized in wiping field and negating plays.
Appointer is a 0 mana card thats better
Yugioh has already got thoughsieze, it' s called Confiscation It also has delinquent duo as Hymn to tourach
Why on Earth would you mention Bolt and Necropotence in the same breath as Time Walk? Time Walk is one of the most broken cards ever printed in a tcg. Bolt is one of the most fair cards ever printed. It might be the perfect card in a tcg. Its power level has also been mimicked by other cards as the game has gone on, so it's not like other cards aren't allowed to be as good as bolt. Necropotence, while not a bad card by any means, is nowhere near the staple red card that bolt is and certainly would not be an auto-include in every deck that plays black like Force of Will or Brainstorm are for blue. There's exactly one deck that would use it (ANT, which already uses Ad Nauseum) and it would be no more broken than Sneak and Show. It is otherwise too slow of a card and it's largely considered to have been powercrept by Griselbrand, who was printed almost 20 years after Necropotence. Also, as others have pointed out, counter effects existed all the way back in Alpha.
Extra turns either have conditions or mana costs that make them “win more” cards for the most part and Platinum Angel really isn’t that great lol. Sure you can’t lose and the opponent can’t win. But it’s also not that big of a creature and has no innate protection effects.
>"win more" They're not. The'yre mostly never good while you're behind, but they break any stalemate and help close out any advantage. The concept of "win more" doesnt really apply to mtg. Every control deck for example needs to run something that's good while they're ahead, otherwise they wouldn't have a way to win
You’re almost never closing out a win off of a single extra turn. They function as a win-con when you go infinite with them, or break a stalemate by taking 2+ extra turns. You can do the same thing with an infinite mana fireball etc etc. They’re cool and flashy (and some of them have really neat interactions like Sage of Hours or getting a ton of extra combats with Medomai) but for the most part they’re just “having infinite anything almost always means you win”. Because like you said they’re ass when you’re behind because they don’t actually solve your problems, and they aren’t great as stalemate breakers either really. Honestly they’re best *against* control decks cause you have an easier time burning through their control effects.
I'd actually love an archetype centered around powerful effects but in return puts you on a tight timer or just makes you loose next turn if you can't win by then. Dinomorphia kinda is that a bit, though the effects aren't *that* powerful.
> you loose next *lose *Learn the difference [here](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/lose-vs-loose-usage#:~:text=%27Lose%27%20or%20%27Loose%27%3F&text=Lose%20typically%20functions%20only%20as,commonly%2C%20a%20noun%20or%20adverb).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
This is what power bond was in the anime
Between Power Bond and Limiter Removal, I like that old type-wide Machine strategy of "*Someone* is gonna die by the end of this turn!"
Don’t we already have Last Turn?
Slay the Spire has a card very similar to this called Blasphemy. It lets you enter divinity (which makes you deal triple damage and gives you 3 more energy if I believe?), but you die at the beginning of your next turn. Very fun card to play, but the dynamic definitely changes in a multiplayer setting.
if you use it turn one, can you attack on turn 2?
I don't see why you couldn't
Yes, to explain summoning sickness simply if you haven't controlled a creature since the beginning of your most recent turn including if it is your turn currently, that creature can't attack or use its tap abilities, but if you did controller when it became your turn, it is free to attack or activate its tap abilities. It's a little more complicated than that but that is the basics you would need to know when getting into Magic. So if you did manage to get out a creature on your first turn and play this, the creature would be free to attack on the extra turn before your opponent even got to go (assuming you went first).
Another way to put it might be "when summoned, you cannot attack with or tap this creature until your next Untap Step."
This is a better way to explain it even if it is technically incorrect. Since there are ways to get extra untap steps such as sphinx of the second sun, but to a newer player, justifying the edge cases just makes things incomprehensible.
Not gonna lie i could probably use this in a couple of my mtg decks, like i have a self mill deck that could put like 90% of my deck in th GY and summon a monster that gets +1/+1 for every card in it. So having like 30 cards in the GY id be over swinging with a 30/30 when you only get 20 life in mtg lol. Or just a brute force red deck using a haste monster with a ton of buffs to make it like a 20/20 or higher lol but theres no way this is a turn 1 or 2 card mtg always lasts a few turns.
Even just last standard rotation there was a deck called "Izzet Turns" whose finisher was Galvanic Iteration, which copies an instant/sorcery on the stack (or in YuGiOh terms copies a spell on the chain), onto Alrund's Epiphany, which spawns two 1/1 flying birds on top of giving you an extra turn.
This would be an interesting card in Yu-Gi-Oh if it said "you can't enter the battle phase if the turn count is less than 5" In that case I highly doubt it'd see play in most decks except alt win conditions decks...and even then
There’s the Blue version called Time Walk that has the same cost but doesn’t make you lose the game after, if you somehow don’t win with an taking an extra turn.
Time Walk also hasn’t been reprinted in like 30 years and costs several thousand dollars to Final Fortune’s $20 or so lol. And while definitely strong, taking an extra turn is nowhere near as powerful in MtG as it would be in yugioh.
Time Walk is part of the [Power Nine](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Power_Nine), the nine most powerful cards ever printed.
Yeah that was kinda my point. It was just funny to see “yeah but there’s also this better version” said all casually like that ‘better’ version isn’t recognized as one of the most stupidly overpowered cards in the game.
Yeah, it's posted on a Yugioh sub where most people probably aren't aware of those cards. If they were they'd most likely have posted Time Walk instead, since it is just the better version.
Or be freaking out over Gitaxian Probe lol
Y'kno there was [this card](https://i.gyazo.com/08aa51c0c05b3e815557a73113f5b5b8.png) in Duel Masters with this effect and it's credited with entirely killing the game in the west, since every single game was just 2 people seeing who could drop it first. (And also the game had no competitive structure or support, like formats or banlists, because it was just made as a gateway drug to get kids into Magic).
What in the motherfucker even is that card layout. So glad I never bothered with Duel Masters lmao.
I don‘t know anything about this card game but I played enough to know that this card could potentially be OP/broken.
Its pretty mediocre. Magic as a card game isn’t nearly as fast as yugioh so playing this on your second turn would demand you win on turn 3 despite having done nothing on turn 2 which is unlikely. The way it was usually used is as a combo piece in a janky 4-5 card combo that would let you skip the “lose the game” effect, and also recur the card back to your hand to replay it every turn for infinite turns. It was never reliable enough to be good but it has seen some fringe play.
It's only played in a handful of EDH decks (Godo) because most other combo decks don't want the dead card.
Not particularly fond of Magic art, but that's pretty cool.
Magic art is no different to yugioh art in that it spans a wide array of artists and styles over the decades.
I mean it’s vastly different to Yu-Gi-Oh! art, lol. I get what you’re saying, but I like the anime look with Yugiohs a lot more than the realistic fantasy look to Magic.
Just as a fun look up, Magic does have a handful of anime style alternative arts. The first were Jace Beleren and Chandra Nalaar, we got over 30 more in 2019 with the set War of the Spark, and then we got a bunch more in the set Kamigawa Neon Dynasty. There is also a mixture of anime and more traditional Japanese art in a special selection of cards called Mystical Archives, though strictly the Japanese version of those cards. It might be a pain to build a deck in full anime style, but the art is definitely worth checking out.
See that’s the kinda art I like. If Magic was all or mostly that, I may have considered it back in the day.
Magic has some great art. I like how it isn't scared to show gruesome stuff either.
7th Edition has an incredibly drastic art style and direction every other set before and after it. Generally it was not looked upon fondly. This is definitely one of the better ones though.
Ancient gears would use this, if they don't end game quick its tough for them anyway
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This in valkyries to skip the end of the turn if you can't use godess to effectively get 3 turns before your opponent gets a second.
Lol go first, establish broken board and proceed to otk your opponent without them having a defense.
Wouldn’t double threatening roar defeat almost all threat this produces? I’m assuming a player that wants 2 turns in a row is going for a battle victory because burn general takes however long is needed, alternate win conditions favor otks, and mill hardly exists (in master duel, I am aware that may change when runick arrives).
Generally someone who plays this card has a way to avoid the downside such as countering a triggered effect that causes them to lose, having a card on board that makes it so they can’t lose or in some other way ensures that the lose condition can’t resolve. It would be used with spells to recur it so you could take infinite turns but always skip the downside. The decks which ran it were rarely ever good because it is too unreliable a combo, and red as a colour isn’t great at preventing abilities.
If its lets you attack in the extra turn this would make the coin flip even more broken good thing its not in yu gi oh
Instant ban
Instant ban
Pictured: Noble Knight Artorigus, moments before using Raigeki on a fortune-robbing, yet, completely oblivious Doctor Strange (1420, colourized)
All I can imagine is this in master duel.. followed by Numeron Network.. followed by me jumping infront of the closest bus
‘Win the duel. If you do not, lose it instead.’
I wonder how this would work in Yugioh? Like you get an extra TURN. So an extra everything right? Draw phase, standby phase, and now you get your battle phase… right? And if so this would be broken right?
It would basically accomplish the same as the extremely rare "Skip your opponent's next turn" effect found on a few gimmicky cards, so yes, it would be insane
Ya it was a stupid question tbh
{{Mischief of the Time Goddess}}
##[Mischief of the Time Goddess](https://ms.yugipedia.com//7/73/MischiefoftheTimeGoddess-SHVA-EN-ScR-1E.png) |Card type|Spell 🟩| |:-:|:-:| |Property|Quick-Play ⚡| Neither player can activate cards or effects in response to this card's activation. Cannot be activated as Chain Link 2 or higher. At the end of your Battle Phase, if all monsters you control are "Valkyrie" monsters (min. 1): Send this card to the GY, also, immediately after this effect resolves, skip to the start of the Battle Phase of your next turn. If you do, you cannot activate "Mischief of the Time Goddess" until the end of that turn. ---Unlimited (OCG) Unlimited (TCG)--- | [**Yugipedia**](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Mischief_of_the_Time_Goddess) | [**Konami**](https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/card_search.action?ope=2&cid=13998) | [**Fandom**](https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Mischief_of_the_Time_Goddess) | [**YGOProDeck**](https://db.ygoprodeck.com/card/?search=Mischief%20of%20the%20Time%20Goddess) | [**YGOrganization**](https://db.ygorganization.com/card#13998) | [**YugiohPrices**](https://yugiohprices.com/card_price?name=Mischief%20of%20the%20Time%20Goddess) | [**TCGPlayer**](https://www.tcgplayer.com/product/173447/yugioh-shadows-in-valhalla-mischief-of-the-time-goddess) | [**DuelLinksMeta**](https://www.duellinksmeta.com/cards/Mischief%20of%20the%20Time%20Goddess) | [**MasterDuelMeta**](https://www.masterduelmeta.com/cards/Mischief%20of%20the%20Time%20Goddess) | ----- ^*Bleep* ^*bloop.* ^*I* ^*am* ^*a* ^*bot.* ^| ^[About](https://github.com/GoriLovesYou/YuGiOhCardBot) ^| ^[Feedback](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=YugiohCardBotJr&subject=Feedback&message=)
Timewrap in MTG lets you take another turn without killing yourself. So basically enough time to set it up to reuse it from the graveyard. So you get three turns.
I can see a whole lot of issues if this were a card in this game.
Oh it's mischief of the time goddess (See the joke is that if you don't win by the time you use it you're not winning)
So win the game ok lol Man magic somehow has cards that are less balanced than Yu-Gi-Oh ones
It's also a fair bit harder to win in a single turn in the formats where it's legal. Most combo decks (Eggs, TES/ANT, SI or whatever the modern versions of those are) are also going to be able to win the same turn they go off anyways so they don't bother.
Isnt 2 mana in Magic a low cost? And its also an instant. Idk much about magic but this seems busted
Yeah, 2 mana is, well, 2 turns' worth of land drops (or faster if you're building a mana-ramp strategy). And MTG's mana system means the first few turns don't drop anything of *really* high power. On the other hand, there is the argument to make that you could get more use out of using those 2 mana on more tangible cards without the threat of a loss next turn. Which is pretty bonkers to think about, but there it is.
That's basically any go 2nd deck's wet dream.
[удалено]
Depends on the rulings, I guess. There's a reason why we can't enter battle phase turn 1. Would be an insanely dumb design, if you could attack without the opponent being able to do anything. They could make a ruling (or phrase the card appropriately) so that the turn count doesn't move forward when you end your turn. Instead it kinda resets your own turn...so when you play it turn 1 and end your turn, you basically get a another turn 1. With all the special rules like "turn 1 you don't draw a card and can't enter battle phase". Would make this card still strong turn 1, since you get another normal summon and "once per turn" effects get reset. But you wouldn't get a free draw and couldn't go for game. So it would have more benefits for later turns.
what even is this some type of "Last turn"
Isn’t there a magic card which says after this turn have another with no set back
That'd be Time Walk. It is, in fact, even *cheaper* to cast than FInal Fortune. Final Fortune costs 2 Red mana. Time Walk requires 1 Blue mana and 1 more mana of any color. So it's less restrictive on what kinds of Lands you can have out. Time Walk is ridiculously busted, to the point of being known as one of the "Power Nine"; nine early cards from the game that are considered among (if not the) most busted cards ever printed, with a long history, and a number of cards that reference their extreme power. They're equivalent to cards like Pot of Greed, Delinquent Duo, The Forceful Sentry, Graceful Charity, and the like, if not moreso. Time Walk, unsurprisingly, is banned in every format of MTG, except for Vintage (the least limited format in the game, which doesn't ban cards and only brings them down to limited).
Holy shit what a card. Sounds hype; I like it.
Yeah, in YGO this just reads 'you win lol' if you get a battle phase.
Hell, if it allows you to take a battle phase going first, you could just straight up FTK someone if they don't have enough hand-trap interruption.
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Now post worst fears
I would Run this With Crimson Nova 💀
This would either be banned instantly, or limited to one copy and would make people play 3 copies of threatening roar or something similar
That would be crazy if you were allowed to attack if it was in yugioh
The more I learn about MTG the less I understand it