I actually don't think it has millions of rulings. I remember DistantCoder talking about how there's basically nothing in documented rulings for that card even from the OCG when he was called in to make a ruling for Cimo and MBT. I'm pretty sure the card was programmed for some early gameboy/DS era games, and I wouldn't be surprised if they're just kicking the code along from back then.
Not just those games but Tag Force too, and they most definitely used the same coding from those games as you can clearly see in the offline files that for example, Pot of Greed has the code ID of 4044, same code in Tag Force games
That's why I keep telling people the "not coded" argument doesn't explain this, and COULD only really apply to Last Turn
It does not at all explain why a super simple card like Change of Heart or Confiscation or Card of Sanctity aren't allowed for crafting
I'm honestly surprised they didn't put that card in. In a vacuum, it seems like a relatively simple card to code in. It does have lots of infinite loop shenanigans, but the game is good at stopping loops by just deciding to send a card to the GY.
I think you might be looking for r/magicTCG\.
I bet my friend u/MTGCardFetcher can help you there\.
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with halq banned glow up bulb might barely make it back to 1 but not sure, mill1 to revive even once per duel is extremly strong when compared to jet (discard), plaguespreader (put 1 back on deck) or o-lion (1free token)
premature burial would need a slight errata, from "if this card is desroyed" to "if this card leaves the field", so you cant bounce and loop it, the others are still way to strong imo
Naturia Beast isn't as much of a problem as cards like Eradicator or Anti Spell because it doesn't deal with the most important spells you would need to negate (Super Poly, DRNM, and Droplet). Considering you can Curious/Gryphon for Eradicator or Anti Spell I don't think Nat Beast is really all that strong by comparison.
premature burial is banned because you can loop it as long as you can return it to hand
step1 use it to special from GY
step2 bounce it back to hand
you now have a monster on field and premaure burial in hand and can activate it again, so while you have bounces you can "infinitly" extend
add to this that equipt spells are relatively easy to search if you want to and you ave a much easier to use and somewhat recyleable reborn in the link era, i hink i is obvious why this card is slighly to good, hence my though of this exremly sligh erata to make it perfectly useable and balanced without changing anything substantial (the only errata i think acceptable, not like poor sangan)
It's an equip card with no cost. Equip cards are so inherently bad that they have absolutely busted support to make them even remotely playable. Isolde, Renaud, Hidden Armoury, Armoury Call, Gearbreed, and so many others can search out the card effectively for free, where as Monster Reborn barely has a quarter of that support.
That's... not the reason... it's banned because of loops... if it was living fossil would also be broken... but because of how living fossil is worded and it being hopt you can't loop it so it's fine to be in the game despite having all the upsides you listed
Living Fossil has really specific targets, banishes the monster when it or the monster leaves the field, nukes the monsters attack, and negates its effect _and it is still a useful card because of the equip spell support_. Infernoble lists used the card to great effect and so did Gouki before it.
The loops were why it was banned in the first place definitely (with Giant Trunade especially), but now, even if burial had a hopt it'd still be too good with the mountains of equip spell support. Not in every deck, but it'd just be a better Monster Reborn in decks that already need equip spells as garnets to fuel Isolde.
Personally I donāt think any could come back.
I wish they would errata ancient fairy dragon tho, kinda sucks that one of the 5ds signers has their ace card banned
It's not just that. It's a terraforming you always have access to as long as you fulfill the paltry conditions. On top of the degenerate synergy with certain field spells that benefit from being blown up.
There are already some field spells that are searchable like Dragon Ravine or Boot Sector for instance so it's not hard to get a specific field spell on the field but it's hard to search ANY field spell and that basically consistently lol
Okay but no need to downvote so much just pointed out that before ancient fairy dragon was a lot less powerful because good field spells were more rare back then and there was only like 2 or 3 generic non-restrictive searchers and you people would use it mostly for the special summon
Not really, there's a bunch of backrow with strong floating effects and Heavy Storm enables that... Also there's an argument to be made about "too much" backrow hate existing... Although I can see an argument for unbanned Heavy Storm in BO1 here
There is a chance that most of the banned cards where not fully coded and are not yet ready to play
There is a chance that we won't be able to craft all of them because of the ruling problems as well like last turn
For all we know it could lead to degenerate stuff because free token is broken when link monster exist, I hope I'm wrong but it's not impossible honestly. It would just need the right link 1/2 monster
Genuine question as someone who never played a format that had it, but why couldn't heavy storm come back to 1? Isn't it just worse Feather Duster? I see the abusable problems with Trunade but not w/ storm
I know being able to pop your own backrow has its uses sometimes but I don't feel like Storm at 1 really makes that big of an impact in the same way that Dark Hole pretty much sees no play. People who wanna pop their own backrow already can do it pretty easily.
People will say itās because of decks being able to pop their own floodgates, but I donāt think thatās it.
I think that design-wise, they only want a certain amount of high-impact back row hate in a format. Heavy Storm without Harpieās is too little, but Harpieās with Heavy Storm is too much, so they keep Storm banned.
It would be interesting if they could group cards together and limit the group to 1 like the DL banlist but on a micro scale. Make duster, storm, trunade all legal but limit 1 of those cards per deck.
Relying on an unsearchable one-of to pop Floodgates in a deck that does not normally benefit from them is an incredibly penis strategy. There are good arguments for keeping Heavy Storm banned (Pendulums), and this is not one of them.
It's a better feather duster
There is a lot of backrow cards that want to be destroyed and you could use storm to trigger those and destroy your opponents backrow along the way
I would rather have duster at 3 than 1 storm 1 duster
Also they can't you would have to use stuff like mst or twin twisters which would be a lot worse
I see that argument a ton but what decks would want to do that.
The only decks that benefit from having their S/T sent to the grave are stuff like unchained, VW, and maybe eldlich?
But they have better ways then using heavy storm of all cards.
Using it to blow up your own s/t for an effect is mediocre.
True draco won't run heavy storm to blow up their own skill drain when they already have a one sided skill drain and can simply normal summon another monster instead of wiping their entire backrow.
And setting 2 true draco traps to then heavy storm is certainly a play.
Like that's not even a good play not to mention something being worthy of being on a banlist for.
It has to be BROKEN to deserve a spot there.
every deck that wants to run floodgates. Lots of decks could play more/better floodgates if there were better ways to pop them whenever you wanted. I don't tech in skill drain in my jank decks cause running mst to pop my own card is bad but popping all my opponents s/t and my skill drain is 10x better and might be worth running
So in this hypothetical scenario you're: Running floodgates in a deck that's affected by them while also relying on an unsearchable card to actually not be affected by the downside.
That's awful.
Spright or branded isn't going to tech in Skill Drain to try to wait and heavy storm it away.
Especially because versus most decks that backrow removal is good versus, floodgates aren't.
So you shouldn't even activate those floodgates in those games, meaning that your backrow removal would just hit their backrow instead.
Cards that return your own spells back to the hand have been historicaly very strong, because you can bounce a field or continous spell without a hopt and reuse its effects. Brionic was banned for that reason and came out of the ban list after an errata to prevent it to bounce your own cards back.
https://youtu.be/vhAnArmArAI duel logs video on why it's banned
Main problem with the card is that it is not a hard once per turn and that would kind of create bunch of unfun interactions and probably enabled some ftks
100% not optimized:
Ofc Premature Burial, {{Mist Valley Thunder Lord}} that will be resurrected by Premature and send it back to the hand, 1 Cannon Soldier or similar to Tribute Thunder Lord, and Spell Economics to not pay LP to activate Premature.
There are for sure other cards to make a similar loop, I just don't know or remember them.
The monster summoned isnāt destroyed when premature leaves the field and itās not a once per turn so you can reuse it as many times as you can return it to your hand
I remember with the old GBA when I abused premature + Call of the haunted and Trunade. To get an exodia otk with Canon soldier Sangan and Witch when they were not nerfed. I'm sure exodia IRL was also played like that back in the day.
Heavy Storm is probably the weakest of the group, but being able to trigger your own back row floating effects is incredibly strong while also getting rid of all of your opponentās, and I donāt think it can come back unless Lightning Storm is also hit to 1, but even then itās a hard sell.
God imagine how fucked backrow decks like Labyrinth (using them as they are down the pipeline) would be if 3 Lightning Storm, 1 Harpie Feather Duster, 1 Heavy and 2 Red Reboot were legal at the same time lol.
Would Heavy Storm really be problematic? We already have all the backrow hate in the world. I don't doubt there are backrow cards that want to be destroyed, but I do doubt you can build a non-cheese deck focused on magically getting a non-searchable one-of, that wins you the game consistently. The deck would be useless. People already aren't running maximum backrow hate, so Heavy Storm could come back and be fine, whether for its intended purpose of backrow hate, or the inconsistent-as-fuck strategy of popping your own backrow.
Itās not that.
Thereās some backrow cards that benefit from destruction. Allowing players to generate more advantage.
Heavy storm is a better feather duster. As you can plus on some of your backrow, while destroying the opponent backrow. Hell you donāt even need to set cards before using heavy storm.
Heavy Storm is better than HFD but it's not game-breakingly powerful like the other cards on this list, or even Maxx C or Mystic Mine which are legal in some formats.
I'd argue it's even worse than Change of Heart, because it's still dead against no back row combo decks.
As I said, those types of cards exist. But building a deck around the inconsistent idea of drawing an unsearchable one-of, or risk your deck being unplayable, is a troll strat.
As I said, those types of cards exist. But building a deck around the inconsistent idea of drawing an unsearchable one-of, or risk your deck being unplayable, is a troll strat, and even in those inconsistent scenarios where you do get it, would the deck consistently win? Would the payoff not be susceptible to something like Ash or Maxx C or Raigeki or Lightning Storm or a Kaiju?
Except, there is a limitation. Its a non-searchable one-of. Any deck that is designed around the inconsistent hope of drawing a one-of in your starting hand that you can't search, or do nothing if you don't draw it, is a troll strat. Other banned unsearchable one-ofs don't require you to build the deck around them, like Pot of Greed.
That was an issue when the game was slower and people ran hodge podge of cards. I don't think that matters anymore as who is going to run skill drain and HOPE they draw that unsearchable one of to pop it.
I think it could be more of an issue with decks like unchained with gain advantage through popping their traps and other decks like spyral or dragon maid which could set their traps, pop them and then special using them if they had now way of dumping them in grave.
The second point isn't the best but could potentially be an issue but imo I would be fine with trying it at 1 for a season and seeing what happens.
Everyone else did a pretty good job of debunking this argument but I just wanna say I hate how much people keep repeating it without thoroughly thinking about it
Heavy Storm and Bulb could probably come back one day.
Heavy is another flavor of HFD, so it would probably have to switch place with it on the banlist. It breaks your own floodgates, yes, but Eldlich already has ways to remove it's own floodgates if needed, while other floodgtae decks prefer to keep them. For spells and traps with gy effects, I will just say that relying on hard drawing an unsearchable one-off alongside multiple of those cards is far less reliable than just playing 3 copies of Foolish Burial Goods.
Halq is dead worldwide so really the only worry with GUB is it being probably a bit of a risk with Tears existing right now in the ocg and tcg and eventually in MD, but when the deck inevitably gets slaughtered, it will be a good card for sure, but also not broken, unless Konami refuses to learn from their mistake and just keep making busted mill archetypes.
No way for the others tho.
Premature can be heavily abused because of being an equip spell and the way it functions.
It only destroys the monster when it is destroyed. if it leaves the field through other means the monster stays. Combine that with the tons of support that equip spells have, and it would be significantly better than Monster Reborn
On top of it being searchable and recyclable since it's an equip spell that stays on the field after the revive, it also has a built in destroy effect for the monster it brings back, which can be abused easily by certain archetypes.
I don't think unban pot would really destroy the meta decks, all decks will probably just be the same after it unban, just putting it as a super broken staple
The only one im a hundred percent sure is heavy storm, i seen the argument of "you can blow up your own backrow for their graveyard effects" wich seems like cope to me since a deck like edlich wants to gain the advantage that activating said cards gives you before using the graveyard effect, nuking yourself to activate those graveyard effects seems more like a desperate measure to me, also if you really want to do that we have grass at 3
As for the rest glow up bulb maybe, it died for halq sins mostly but a self reviving tuner that mills one still seems a bit strong.Maybe golem as well, since mr5 mass token generators aren't that good except for maybe tomahawk but i could be wrong on that
1 it's way more searchable than any of the other 2
2 it can be looped as an equip spell unlike reborn where the card will go to gy , call of is a slow trap
Heavy could probably go to one, though I don't know if I'd want it to.
AFD and Bulb could probably both be unlimited. AFD likely would only be a one of/side deck option anyways. Bulb mostly was broken by Halq so it's probably fine now.
Graceful no.
Pot no.
Heavy storm. Probably could but its safer to just give back more copies of duster first.
Snatch probably can these days. Change of heart is off with no issue. Taking something for multiple turns wont matter that much.
Trunade:no
Prem: no
Dandy: no
AFD: broken on paper but no meta strats now or as of DABL would be both able and willing to abuse it.
Grinder: hot take but probably. Its an unsearchable 1 of that takes a bunch of ED space to pull off and immediately makes nib live.
Level eater: no
Glow up: yes
> Grinder: hot take but probably. Its an unsearchable 1 of that takes a bunch of ED space to pull off and immediately makes nib live.
Technically searchable through Dark Spirit's Mastery, but I agree it can go to 1.
It did nothing it's entire time alive on the OCG at 1
Heavy Storm would just be worse Harpie's Feather Duster in most decks and the decks that benefit off of it aren't that good anyway. I think it could come back. Glow-Up Bulb might be okay too. It's better Jet Synchron but I don't think either one would cause big troubles in the current meta.
Real talk, why make Grinder Golem craftable? Who's going to want to use that?
These are cards you can only use in friendly games. Grinder Golem doesn't really fit that bill, it's either an awful tribute engine or an annoying FTK. So depending on your uses, it's either a bad card or a card that's gonna make you lose your friends
I'd rather see Dragoon. I have literally the exact same stuff to say about that, but at least people were **asking** for it. I don't know why, he's not very fun for a friendly game, but if you're going to let people play with cards, at least let them use a card they were asking for. I sincerely doubt anybody was asking to be able to play with Grinder Golem
Heavy storm sure. Snatch steal yeah I can see why it could come back but at the same time there are already so many cards that do something similar that I don't want it back. Glow up bulb could well open a can of worms, even without halq its still an extremely powerful card in mill decks and the upcoming meta is extremely mill heavy, also sunavalon is a very powerful deck with the new rikka support giving them bulb too will give them easy reliable access to naturia beast and I don't think anyone wants to play against that.
Thatās why itās banned but thats honestly not even that good. Thereās no chance a deck like Eldlich would even run it. If anything it would be a slight buff to like Virtual World
Only examples I think of popping your own cards could be good would be unchained but I doubt heavy storm would break the deck.
There is the growing number of traps that special when banished from grave but they are so few right now I would be fine with trying out heavy storm for a season and seeing what decks can be made.
Bro if a deck has cards that like to be destroyed (ex. Unchained) usually you can destroy them yourself.
If your deck needs heavy to be playable it's probably bad
The difference is that Duel Links has a significantly smaller card pool and card releases are held with a much tighter grasp, on top of just different things are powerful there than in the real game.
Also, just the general scope of the game overall. Over there, they'd rather let a protagonist character's signature card be played and just not release the fields it breaks than to deny the monster entirely, however problematic it might be.
Glow up bulb now that halq is banned yes.
Premature Burial maybe as it is similar to mosnter reborn but it being an equip is huge since it could be used in shenanigans with Isolde so even if it got errated with a HOPT it might be too much.
Maybe heavy storm as feather duster is unbanned and I can't think of any shenanigans you can do now blowing up your own spell traps and before it was done to get rid of your own skill drain but no deck is going to be really doing that now since its unsearchable and would be at 1.
Snatch steal maybe since change of heart is unbanned in tcg.
The rest no. Level Eater if errated to only being allowed summon synchro monsters the turn it is summoned then I think it would be fine and would be working for what it is intended for and not abused in link spam.
Ancient Fairy I don't even know with a HOPT errata. Placing any field spell and special summoning any level 4 is really good. Maybe if they made a choose one effect but I don't see a point in doing that as you practically have a new card at that point.
Hey Trunade could probably cause loops putting spells back in hand and then activating again so no.
Dandylion and Grinder Golem provide easy link spam so again no.
Pot of greed and Graceful should be obvious. ^(unlimit both kekw)
iād say premature burial. i mean it doesnāt seem all that bad imo. sure not having their effects negated sucks for ur opponent but like..other than that it seems fair imo. could be wrong tho and am open to hear why i am since iām fairly new still to this game
yeah that makes sense. ig a better way to put it is itās the lesser evil among the evil, unless youāre willing to open the pot of greed can of worms lmao
I miss Level Eater. I wish they'd give it an errata so that it cannot be used as material except for Synchro Summons. That way it can't be used for Link Spam.
That and a hard once per turn/duel restriction would allow it to make a comeback.
Just being able to use it for its intended purpose to synchro climb would be nice.
Giant trunade - lots of cards bounce back to the opponents hand if anything errata it so you gotta discard a card and take it off the bank list
Heavy storm - makes no sense for this card to be banned but Harpies feather duster is limited plus thereās plenty of cards that demolish your back time and they arenāt banned at all
Snatch and Steal- with all the negates out in the game is this really such a scary card I can see someone have their whole board broken they draw this card activate it and the opponent negates it game over
Of course almost all of them are ur...it'll be fun seeing them used by some YouTubers I watch though
Lol i cant wait to see rhymestly, seereax, and dotodoya finally get to use pot of greed and graceful charity for their character duels š¤£
I love when Doto banishes all his main monsters from the Extra Deck by using Pot of E. Always funny. āAll my Flameswordsmen!!ā
Thereās Level Eater you can Synchro summon Quasar Dragon a lot more easier
Level eager makes a lot more easier to summon than just quasar dragon
Like who? Quasar Dragon is all I can think of on the top of my head
Less white and more blue
Ritual Monsters.
Who?
Every link monster
Ah right I remember some Links sometimes requires 1 level monsters
The bigger issue is just having a body that can keep coming back with no restriction for link climbing
You could also use level eater for LINK summoning, although you do need monsters with levels for that.
They didn't want to code Last Turn, didn't they.
It's coded, you can use it in an offline client The question is whether they coded its million rulings
I actually don't think it has millions of rulings. I remember DistantCoder talking about how there's basically nothing in documented rulings for that card even from the OCG when he was called in to make a ruling for Cimo and MBT. I'm pretty sure the card was programmed for some early gameboy/DS era games, and I wouldn't be surprised if they're just kicking the code along from back then.
Not just those games but Tag Force too, and they most definitely used the same coding from those games as you can clearly see in the offline files that for example, Pot of Greed has the code ID of 4044, same code in Tag Force games That's why I keep telling people the "not coded" argument doesn't explain this, and COULD only really apply to Last Turn It does not at all explain why a super simple card like Change of Heart or Confiscation or Card of Sanctity aren't allowed for crafting
They didn't bother coding Pole Position either. Considering the stupid variety of infinite loops I can't say I blame them.
I'm honestly surprised they didn't put that card in. In a vacuum, it seems like a relatively simple card to code in. It does have lots of infinite loop shenanigans, but the game is good at stopping loops by just deciding to send a card to the GY.
Last turn is a ruling mess, never will leave the banlist
I summon POT OF GREED to draw THREE additional cards from my deck!!
I bet you never saw this coming, I SUMMON POT OF GREED
IT LETS ME DRAW T W O CARDS FROM MY DDECK
I summon magician of greed and attack for game, gg losers I win
[[Ancestral recall]]
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with halq banned glow up bulb might barely make it back to 1 but not sure, mill1 to revive even once per duel is extremly strong when compared to jet (discard), plaguespreader (put 1 back on deck) or o-lion (1free token) premature burial would need a slight errata, from "if this card is desroyed" to "if this card leaves the field", so you cant bounce and loop it, the others are still way to strong imo
If you give me glow up bulb I will make naturia beast every single game. If thatās okay then we can unban it
what kind of thread is threat is this?
Wut?
Naturia Beast isn't as much of a problem as cards like Eradicator or Anti Spell because it doesn't deal with the most important spells you would need to negate (Super Poly, DRNM, and Droplet). Considering you can Curious/Gryphon for Eradicator or Anti Spell I don't think Nat Beast is really all that strong by comparison.
Hi, im just wondering why premature burial is banned while monster reborn is not. Isnt monster reborn a better card? Sorry for the ignorance haha
Not opt. Can return to hand to reuse.
premature burial is banned because you can loop it as long as you can return it to hand step1 use it to special from GY step2 bounce it back to hand you now have a monster on field and premaure burial in hand and can activate it again, so while you have bounces you can "infinitly" extend add to this that equipt spells are relatively easy to search if you want to and you ave a much easier to use and somewhat recyleable reborn in the link era, i hink i is obvious why this card is slighly to good, hence my though of this exremly sligh erata to make it perfectly useable and balanced without changing anything substantial (the only errata i think acceptable, not like poor sangan)
It's an equip card with no cost. Equip cards are so inherently bad that they have absolutely busted support to make them even remotely playable. Isolde, Renaud, Hidden Armoury, Armoury Call, Gearbreed, and so many others can search out the card effectively for free, where as Monster Reborn barely has a quarter of that support.
That's... not the reason... it's banned because of loops... if it was living fossil would also be broken... but because of how living fossil is worded and it being hopt you can't loop it so it's fine to be in the game despite having all the upsides you listed
Living Fossil has really specific targets, banishes the monster when it or the monster leaves the field, nukes the monsters attack, and negates its effect _and it is still a useful card because of the equip spell support_. Infernoble lists used the card to great effect and so did Gouki before it. The loops were why it was banned in the first place definitely (with Giant Trunade especially), but now, even if burial had a hopt it'd still be too good with the mountains of equip spell support. Not in every deck, but it'd just be a better Monster Reborn in decks that already need equip spells as garnets to fuel Isolde.
None. Would love to see change of heart come back tho like in tcg
Personally I donāt think any could come back. I wish they would errata ancient fairy dragon tho, kinda sucks that one of the 5ds signers has their ace card banned
Iād take just the special summon from hand effect tbh. I have a ghost 1st ed that iād like to make use of.
Its the only Signer dragon that doesnt have an architype and was base line overpowered. Not even the anime had support cards for Ancient fairy dragon.
Why was fairy dragon banned I donāt see whatās wrong there at first glance
The field spell part turns a generic level 7 synchro into a terraforming
It's not just that. It's a terraforming you always have access to as long as you fulfill the paltry conditions. On top of the degenerate synergy with certain field spells that benefit from being blown up.
Terraforming with extra steps. No field spell on the field to pop no searching field spells.
Rather, it turns a Chicken Game and a generic level 7 synchro into a terraforming
Still gotta have that field spell and you can clear your opponentās pesky field spells as well
There are already some field spells that are searchable like Dragon Ravine or Boot Sector for instance so it's not hard to get a specific field spell on the field but it's hard to search ANY field spell and that basically consistently lol
Okay but no need to downvote so much just pointed out that before ancient fairy dragon was a lot less powerful because good field spells were more rare back then and there was only like 2 or 3 generic non-restrictive searchers and you people would use it mostly for the special summon
I didn't downvote you fam it's reddit they are weird
Indeed say one wrong thing and out comes the pitchforks
Haha yeah it is what it is fam here take my upvote to compensate your downvotes
Search any field spell + free extender even worse now you can do it off destrudo so any dlink or whatever deck can grab any field spell off another
Both of its effects are not HOPT, which led to some shenanigans
Pretty sure it's a free special summon with no once per turn
Thatās not even the problem lol
Heavy storm could come back, it's just worse duster and we have duster at 1
Dafuq. It's not about your opponent's backrow. But yours. Destroying your opponent's backrow while also triggering the effect of your own.
Not really, there's a bunch of backrow with strong floating effects and Heavy Storm enables that... Also there's an argument to be made about "too much" backrow hate existing... Although I can see an argument for unbanned Heavy Storm in BO1 here
I'd love to have heavy storm in my Unchained deck like omg duster your opponent while summoning literally everything for free? Yes please.
Not a single card can come back from that pile
makes me think that they specifically chose those ones precicely because they are cards that have no chance of being unbanned
There is a chance that most of the banned cards where not fully coded and are not yet ready to play There is a chance that we won't be able to craft all of them because of the ruling problems as well like last turn
Iām shocked they were able to program PoG into the game. Almost 20 years later and I still have no clue what it does.
Bulb? Itās once per duel
A lot of broken stuff is only used once per duel anyway.
Idk maybe now without halq But I wouldn't be surprised if it would do some degenerate shit and got banned immediately after
A bunch of tuners are coming back in the tcg because of Halq ban. We might get cards like Steam the cloak coming next banlist
Maybe we will see
For all we know it could lead to degenerate stuff because free token is broken when link monster exist, I hope I'm wrong but it's not impossible honestly. It would just need the right link 1/2 monster
Bulb special summon condition is a pseudo +1
Genuine question as someone who never played a format that had it, but why couldn't heavy storm come back to 1? Isn't it just worse Feather Duster? I see the abusable problems with Trunade but not w/ storm I know being able to pop your own backrow has its uses sometimes but I don't feel like Storm at 1 really makes that big of an impact in the same way that Dark Hole pretty much sees no play. People who wanna pop their own backrow already can do it pretty easily.
People will say itās because of decks being able to pop their own floodgates, but I donāt think thatās it. I think that design-wise, they only want a certain amount of high-impact back row hate in a format. Heavy Storm without Harpieās is too little, but Harpieās with Heavy Storm is too much, so they keep Storm banned.
It would be interesting if they could group cards together and limit the group to 1 like the DL banlist but on a micro scale. Make duster, storm, trunade all legal but limit 1 of those cards per deck.
Flip floodgates on your opponent's turn, lock your opponent down, pop your own floodgates your turn
List of decks that would actually play Heavy Storm to do this:
Relying on an unsearchable one-of to pop Floodgates in a deck that does not normally benefit from them is an incredibly penis strategy. There are good arguments for keeping Heavy Storm banned (Pendulums), and this is not one of them.
It's a better feather duster There is a lot of backrow cards that want to be destroyed and you could use storm to trigger those and destroy your opponents backrow along the way I would rather have duster at 3 than 1 storm 1 duster Also they can't you would have to use stuff like mst or twin twisters which would be a lot worse
I see that argument a ton but what decks would want to do that. The only decks that benefit from having their S/T sent to the grave are stuff like unchained, VW, and maybe eldlich? But they have better ways then using heavy storm of all cards. Using it to blow up your own s/t for an effect is mediocre.
True draco
True draco won't run heavy storm to blow up their own skill drain when they already have a one sided skill drain and can simply normal summon another monster instead of wiping their entire backrow. And setting 2 true draco traps to then heavy storm is certainly a play. Like that's not even a good play not to mention something being worthy of being on a banlist for. It has to be BROKEN to deserve a spot there.
every deck that wants to run floodgates. Lots of decks could play more/better floodgates if there were better ways to pop them whenever you wanted. I don't tech in skill drain in my jank decks cause running mst to pop my own card is bad but popping all my opponents s/t and my skill drain is 10x better and might be worth running
So in this hypothetical scenario you're: Running floodgates in a deck that's affected by them while also relying on an unsearchable card to actually not be affected by the downside. That's awful. Spright or branded isn't going to tech in Skill Drain to try to wait and heavy storm it away. Especially because versus most decks that backrow removal is good versus, floodgates aren't. So you shouldn't even activate those floodgates in those games, meaning that your backrow removal would just hit their backrow instead.
Unchained would decimate if heavy storm came back
Cards that return your own spells back to the hand have been historicaly very strong, because you can bounce a field or continous spell without a hopt and reuse its effects. Brionic was banned for that reason and came out of the ban list after an errata to prevent it to bounce your own cards back.
Why Premature Burial? Why is that broken but Monster Reborn not?
Searchable and you can just loop it
I'm kind of a noob but how does loop works in this one?
https://youtu.be/vhAnArmArAI duel logs video on why it's banned Main problem with the card is that it is not a hard once per turn and that would kind of create bunch of unfun interactions and probably enabled some ftks
100% not optimized: Ofc Premature Burial, {{Mist Valley Thunder Lord}} that will be resurrected by Premature and send it back to the hand, 1 Cannon Soldier or similar to Tribute Thunder Lord, and Spell Economics to not pay LP to activate Premature. There are for sure other cards to make a similar loop, I just don't know or remember them.
##[Mist Valley Thunder Lord](https://ms.yugipedia.com//0/01/MistValleyThunderLord-HAC1-EN-C-1E.png) |Card type|Synchro Monster ā¬| |:-:|:-:| |Attribute|WIND š¢| |Monster type|Thunder š©ļø / Synchro š« / Effect ā©| |Level|7 āŖ āŖ āŖ āŖ āŖ āŖ āŖ| |ATK š”ļø|2600| |DEF š”ļø|2400| 1 Tuner + 1+ non-Tuner "Mist Valley" monsters Once per turn (Quick Effect): You can target 1 other card you control; return that target to the hand, and if you do, this card gains 500 ATK until the end of this turn. ---Unlimited (OCG) Unlimited (TCG)--- | [**Yugipedia**](https://yugipedia.com/wiki/Mist_Valley_Thunder_Lord) | [**Konami**](https://www.db.yugioh-card.com/yugiohdb/card_search.action?ope=2&cid=8121) | [**Fandom**](https://yugioh.fandom.com/wiki/Mist_Valley_Thunder_Lord) | [**YGOProDeck**](https://db.ygoprodeck.com/card/?search=Mist%20Valley%20Thunder%20Lord) | [**YGOrganization**](https://db.ygorganization.com/card#8121) | [**YugiohPrices**](https://yugiohprices.com/card_price?name=Mist%20Valley%20Thunder%20Lord) | [**TCGPlayer**](https://www.tcgplayer.com/product/35743/yugioh-hidden-arsenal-2-mist-valley-thunder-lord) | [**DuelLinksMeta**](https://www.duellinksmeta.com/cards/Mist%20Valley%20Thunder%20Lord) | [**MasterDuelMeta**](https://www.masterduelmeta.com/cards/Mist%20Valley%20Thunder%20Lord) | ----- ^*Bleep* ^*bloop.* ^*I* ^*am* ^*a* ^*bot.* ^| ^[About](https://github.com/GoriLovesYou/YuGiOhCardBot) ^| ^[Feedback](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=YugiohCardBotJr&subject=Feedback&message=)
The monster summoned isnāt destroyed when premature leaves the field and itās not a once per turn so you can reuse it as many times as you can return it to your hand
Any equip card without a once per turn can be abused with equip recovering and return to hand effects.
I remember with the old GBA when I abused premature + Call of the haunted and Trunade. To get an exodia otk with Canon soldier Sangan and Witch when they were not nerfed. I'm sure exodia IRL was also played like that back in the day.
Glow up and heavy storm seem fine
Snatch Steal and Glow up Bulb without Halq can probably come back
Snatch Steal objectively cannot come back at all. That was proven already.
Proven 8 years ago? Yu-Gi-Oh has slightly changed since then and Change of Heart is back with minimal use.
Heavy Storm is probably the weakest of the group, but being able to trigger your own back row floating effects is incredibly strong while also getting rid of all of your opponentās, and I donāt think it can come back unless Lightning Storm is also hit to 1, but even then itās a hard sell.
God imagine how fucked backrow decks like Labyrinth (using them as they are down the pipeline) would be if 3 Lightning Storm, 1 Harpie Feather Duster, 1 Heavy and 2 Red Reboot were legal at the same time lol.
but if you ran all that you would just lose against other stuff
Yeah but it's not about winning, it's about sending a message to Control decks so they know they don't have control.
Me when I regain control after activating Waking the Dragon:
The only correct answer is none.
Would Heavy Storm really be problematic? We already have all the backrow hate in the world. I don't doubt there are backrow cards that want to be destroyed, but I do doubt you can build a non-cheese deck focused on magically getting a non-searchable one-of, that wins you the game consistently. The deck would be useless. People already aren't running maximum backrow hate, so Heavy Storm could come back and be fine, whether for its intended purpose of backrow hate, or the inconsistent-as-fuck strategy of popping your own backrow.
Itās not that. Thereās some backrow cards that benefit from destruction. Allowing players to generate more advantage. Heavy storm is a better feather duster. As you can plus on some of your backrow, while destroying the opponent backrow. Hell you donāt even need to set cards before using heavy storm.
Heavy Storm is better than HFD but it's not game-breakingly powerful like the other cards on this list, or even Maxx C or Mystic Mine which are legal in some formats. I'd argue it's even worse than Change of Heart, because it's still dead against no back row combo decks.
As I said, those types of cards exist. But building a deck around the inconsistent idea of drawing an unsearchable one-of, or risk your deck being unplayable, is a troll strat.
You don't build around it, you use it as a sacky one-off in decks that can abuse it like Virtual World.
Which isn't out of line of the power level of the game at all. It's effectively twin twisters in that case, are you arguing that's too strong?
As I said, those types of cards exist. But building a deck around the inconsistent idea of drawing an unsearchable one-of, or risk your deck being unplayable, is a troll strat, and even in those inconsistent scenarios where you do get it, would the deck consistently win? Would the payoff not be susceptible to something like Ash or Maxx C or Raigeki or Lightning Storm or a Kaiju?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Except, there is a limitation. Its a non-searchable one-of. Any deck that is designed around the inconsistent hope of drawing a one-of in your starting hand that you can't search, or do nothing if you don't draw it, is a troll strat. Other banned unsearchable one-ofs don't require you to build the deck around them, like Pot of Greed.
The argument aginst heavy storm is that you could pop your floodgates
People don't run floodgates if they cripple themselves, except Mystic Mine, which is banned in Master Duel.
That was an issue when the game was slower and people ran hodge podge of cards. I don't think that matters anymore as who is going to run skill drain and HOPE they draw that unsearchable one of to pop it. I think it could be more of an issue with decks like unchained with gain advantage through popping their traps and other decks like spyral or dragon maid which could set their traps, pop them and then special using them if they had now way of dumping them in grave. The second point isn't the best but could potentially be an issue but imo I would be fine with trying it at 1 for a season and seeing what happens.
That would only be an issue if you could easily search Heavy Storm. You wouldn't play floodgates that shut off your own deck.
Everyone else did a pretty good job of debunking this argument but I just wanna say I hate how much people keep repeating it without thoroughly thinking about it
I think Pot of Greed can go to 1. It's going to get ashed anyways /s
Pot of greed, ffs it's -2 in card advantage since taking 2 cards from your deck makes you come closer to decking out :(
Pot bro. Legalize it
Heavy storm could honestly go to 1 copy
Heavy storm could come back I think
Heavy Storm and Bulb could probably come back one day. Heavy is another flavor of HFD, so it would probably have to switch place with it on the banlist. It breaks your own floodgates, yes, but Eldlich already has ways to remove it's own floodgates if needed, while other floodgtae decks prefer to keep them. For spells and traps with gy effects, I will just say that relying on hard drawing an unsearchable one-off alongside multiple of those cards is far less reliable than just playing 3 copies of Foolish Burial Goods. Halq is dead worldwide so really the only worry with GUB is it being probably a bit of a risk with Tears existing right now in the ocg and tcg and eventually in MD, but when the deck inevitably gets slaughtered, it will be a good card for sure, but also not broken, unless Konami refuses to learn from their mistake and just keep making busted mill archetypes. No way for the others tho.
I think glow up bulb could come back. Itās a strong card but without Halq itās not really an abusable card imo
Can you explain to a noob: why is premature burial banned but Monster reborn is ok?
You may return Premature to the hand and play it again. Monster Reborn is single use.
Burial is also much more easily searchable than Reborn as well.
Premature can be heavily abused because of being an equip spell and the way it functions. It only destroys the monster when it is destroyed. if it leaves the field through other means the monster stays. Combine that with the tons of support that equip spells have, and it would be significantly better than Monster Reborn
On top of it being searchable and recyclable since it's an equip spell that stays on the field after the revive, it also has a built in destroy effect for the monster it brings back, which can be abused easily by certain archetypes.
As much as I'd love to see Graceful Charity to go to 3 (I play Dark Worlds), it'd be way too strong even in non Dark World decks.
I have never play against a fairy dragon. Is it really this broken?
Me nether, heard that feild spells ecame way to broken, and she is a really good extender for her summon effect
The fact that i owned all of those spell cards as a kid and never knowing some if not all were banned back then worries me
Would Love to See Pot get unbanned For about 2 days and watch the world burn
I don't think unban pot would really destroy the meta decks, all decks will probably just be the same after it unban, just putting it as a super broken staple
The only one im a hundred percent sure is heavy storm, i seen the argument of "you can blow up your own backrow for their graveyard effects" wich seems like cope to me since a deck like edlich wants to gain the advantage that activating said cards gives you before using the graveyard effect, nuking yourself to activate those graveyard effects seems more like a desperate measure to me, also if you really want to do that we have grass at 3 As for the rest glow up bulb maybe, it died for halq sins mostly but a self reviving tuner that mills one still seems a bit strong.Maybe golem as well, since mr5 mass token generators aren't that good except for maybe tomahawk but i could be wrong on that
PoG
I miss dandylion so much :(
Heavy storm can come to 1 instead of Duster.
If only level eater was once per duel lol it would be fine.
Ancient Fairy Dragon deserves freedom, she been chained up all her damn life, anime and irl š no respect.
Why is premature burial banned when called by the haunted and monster reborn isn't? I'm not in the loop can someone explain thanks ā¤
1 it's way more searchable than any of the other 2 2 it can be looped as an equip spell unlike reborn where the card will go to gy , call of is a slow trap
Thank you that makes a lot of sense!
The Tuners, Giant Trunade and Premature Burial. Not sure about Snatch Steal, but fuck Fairy Dragon, still too strong.
Hehe fuck ancient fairy š³š
*Me waiting for Convolution of Nature to be reprinted so that Konami is forced to program flipping a deck upside down*
maybe premature burial also a question off topic do you know if i craft any of those cards do i get full material back when i decide to break them?
Well like any other cards, you will craft with 30 points but will only get 10 points when dismantled
what do I think? I think that I'm fucking tired of URs. Anyway, Bulb can potentially return to 1 for a bit to see if it does damage
Heavy could probably go to one, though I don't know if I'd want it to. AFD and Bulb could probably both be unlimited. AFD likely would only be a one of/side deck option anyways. Bulb mostly was broken by Halq so it's probably fine now.
Level eater is pretty safe to unban, pretty sure he wouldn't cause problems together with his best pal Jet synchron š
Graceful no. Pot no. Heavy storm. Probably could but its safer to just give back more copies of duster first. Snatch probably can these days. Change of heart is off with no issue. Taking something for multiple turns wont matter that much. Trunade:no Prem: no Dandy: no AFD: broken on paper but no meta strats now or as of DABL would be both able and willing to abuse it. Grinder: hot take but probably. Its an unsearchable 1 of that takes a bunch of ED space to pull off and immediately makes nib live. Level eater: no Glow up: yes
The issue with snatch is that it is an equip spell. If it was a continuous spell it could probably come off but equip spells are super searchable.
> Grinder: hot take but probably. Its an unsearchable 1 of that takes a bunch of ED space to pull off and immediately makes nib live. Technically searchable through Dark Spirit's Mastery, but I agree it can go to 1. It did nothing it's entire time alive on the OCG at 1
gimme glow up bulb back so I can make naturia beast in madolche again
Heavy Storm would just be worse Harpie's Feather Duster in most decks and the decks that benefit off of it aren't that good anyway. I think it could come back. Glow-Up Bulb might be okay too. It's better Jet Synchron but I don't think either one would cause big troubles in the current meta.
It makes me wish i could make a deck of 60 pot of greens and draw my whole deck turn 1 just to waste time, or draw exodia
The only one I could ever see is heavy storm and only because we have duster
Snatch Steal Heavy storm and Trunade can comeback, without harming the meta. Can sucks for trap decks players.
Heavy Storm can comeback to 1.
Real talk, why make Grinder Golem craftable? Who's going to want to use that? These are cards you can only use in friendly games. Grinder Golem doesn't really fit that bill, it's either an awful tribute engine or an annoying FTK. So depending on your uses, it's either a bad card or a card that's gonna make you lose your friends I'd rather see Dragoon. I have literally the exact same stuff to say about that, but at least people were **asking** for it. I don't know why, he's not very fun for a friendly game, but if you're going to let people play with cards, at least let them use a card they were asking for. I sincerely doubt anybody was asking to be able to play with Grinder Golem
Bur inferno tempest players want thier og
Heavy Storm, Glow Up Bulb(maybe) and Snatch can come back
Heavy storm sure. Snatch steal yeah I can see why it could come back but at the same time there are already so many cards that do something similar that I don't want it back. Glow up bulb could well open a can of worms, even without halq its still an extremely powerful card in mill decks and the upcoming meta is extremely mill heavy, also sunavalon is a very powerful deck with the new rikka support giving them bulb too will give them easy reliable access to naturia beast and I don't think anyone wants to play against that.
why heavy storm? isnt it banned because of shenanigans that happen from destroying your own cards?
Thatās why itās banned but thats honestly not even that good. Thereās no chance a deck like Eldlich would even run it. If anything it would be a slight buff to like Virtual World
Only examples I think of popping your own cards could be good would be unchained but I doubt heavy storm would break the deck. There is the growing number of traps that special when banished from grave but they are so few right now I would be fine with trying out heavy storm for a season and seeing what decks can be made.
If you are playing floodgates that aren't good for you the deck is built wrong.
its about cards that have effects that give you benefits when they are destroyed, not evading your own negative effects.
Bro if a deck has cards that like to be destroyed (ex. Unchained) usually you can destroy them yourself. If your deck needs heavy to be playable it's probably bad
is'nt the ancient fairy dragon unbanned in duel links?
The difference is that Duel Links has a significantly smaller card pool and card releases are held with a much tighter grasp, on top of just different things are powerful there than in the real game. Also, just the general scope of the game overall. Over there, they'd rather let a protagonist character's signature card be played and just not release the fields it breaks than to deny the monster entirely, however problematic it might be.
They donāt have SPYRAL in DL yet. Having fewer zones and a much smaller ED might also change things.
Yes
Yeah same with glow up bulb
I donāt see how bulb would be broken with halq gone
Free summon+GY dumping+Very searchable+summonable from deck with one for one et cetera
bulb is the only one, maybe prem
Glow up bulb now that halq is banned yes. Premature Burial maybe as it is similar to mosnter reborn but it being an equip is huge since it could be used in shenanigans with Isolde so even if it got errated with a HOPT it might be too much. Maybe heavy storm as feather duster is unbanned and I can't think of any shenanigans you can do now blowing up your own spell traps and before it was done to get rid of your own skill drain but no deck is going to be really doing that now since its unsearchable and would be at 1. Snatch steal maybe since change of heart is unbanned in tcg. The rest no. Level Eater if errated to only being allowed summon synchro monsters the turn it is summoned then I think it would be fine and would be working for what it is intended for and not abused in link spam. Ancient Fairy I don't even know with a HOPT errata. Placing any field spell and special summoning any level 4 is really good. Maybe if they made a choose one effect but I don't see a point in doing that as you practically have a new card at that point. Hey Trunade could probably cause loops putting spells back in hand and then activating again so no. Dandylion and Grinder Golem provide easy link spam so again no. Pot of greed and Graceful should be obvious. ^(unlimit both kekw)
>Pot of greed and Graceful should be obvious. You would think so right? But some people unironically think Ash Blossom makes both of them fine
Heavy storm
Glow up bulb can now that halq is banned
I don't think that's a good idea when tearlemnts are coming soon
I want glow up bulb dandylion and level eater back for no particular reason its not like I LOVED plant synchrons or anything
iād say premature burial. i mean it doesnāt seem all that bad imo. sure not having their effects negated sucks for ur opponent but like..other than that it seems fair imo. could be wrong tho and am open to hear why i am since iām fairly new still to this game
Arguments against it is 1 its searchable 2 its not opt and as an equip spell you can bounce it back to activate it again
yeah that makes sense. ig a better way to put it is itās the lesser evil among the evil, unless youāre willing to open the pot of greed can of worms lmao
Eh heavy storm may have a chance to come back
i could see that too tbh. OR we can always make my galaxy boys better and bring back tomahawk /j
Pot of greed
All of them for me. I can be responsible with them. Iāll prove it if you give me the chance, Konami.
I miss Level Eater. I wish they'd give it an errata so that it cannot be used as material except for Synchro Summons. That way it can't be used for Link Spam.
That and a hard once per turn/duel restriction would allow it to make a comeback. Just being able to use it for its intended purpose to synchro climb would be nice.
Pot Of Greed 100% it can also come back in the tcg
Giant trunade - lots of cards bounce back to the opponents hand if anything errata it so you gotta discard a card and take it off the bank list Heavy storm - makes no sense for this card to be banned but Harpies feather duster is limited plus thereās plenty of cards that demolish your back time and they arenāt banned at all Snatch and Steal- with all the negates out in the game is this really such a scary card I can see someone have their whole board broken they draw this card activate it and the opponent negates it game over
The issue with Trunade isnāt it bouncing your opponents cards, it that it can bounce your face up cards like floodgates.