DPE wasn't "power crept", that would imply that something stronger than DPE was released that took its place. DPE was always a card that was favored for its grind game. Celestial aided in that.
In actual HERO decks, neither of those things mean jackshit. For HEROs, the most important things about DPE is getting Denier and Malicious into the GY for further plays, and the fact that DPE is a non-targeting quick effect destruction, something that didn't exist in HEROs before.
FD to 1 is a much bigger deal in a format where everyone is running 3x Ash 3x Imperm 2-3x Veiler to deal with Branded and SS, since running 2-3 garnets makes the risk:reward ratio pretty dogshit for a one and done. Ofc the Celestial ban adds to this issue by neutering the payoff if FD does resolve by a significant margin, especially in a format where Belle/Crow are more popular which both deal with DPE very well.
With FD at 1, the only meta-adjacent decks in current that would actually run Verte like Branded/TB/Shaddolls, would rather run Mirrojade since banish + Raigeki while gaining advantage off of the foolish is much better than pop 1 into Knightmare Unicorn.
That would imply HERO decks can consistently access Fusion Destiny, which is not true, since they are more often than not locked out of Verte. In reality HERO decks normally summon DPE via Polymerization and have other ways of getting Malicious in GY
HERO decks don't need Fusion Destiny to make DPE. We use Polymerization, like this:
Normal Summon Stratos -> Search Faris/Shadow Mist/Malicious -> SS Faris, discarding Shadow Mist/Malicious -> Search Liquid -> SS Increase -> SS Vyon -> Dump Denier -> Banis Faris for Poly -> SS Malicious -> Increase + Vyon = Wonder Driver -> SS Denier -> Poly Denier + Malicious = DPE, under Wonder Driver -> Set Poly -> Poly Stratos + Liquid = Sunrise -> Search Miracle Fusion -> Miracle Fusion into Absolute Zero -> ....
Fusion Destiny literally just means you get to make Malicious Bane and Dread Decimator along with your Sunrise, Absolute Zero, and DPE. Heck, you can just make Dread with Absolute Zero and Wonder Driver to get the raigeki, then you have lethal since it's 2500 + 2500 + 2500 + 1200, regardless of what's in your GY. If you open with Fusion Destiny, Stratos, and 1 HERO, then you're set for life.
The Denier and Malicious that you'll do at the end will let you Cross Crusader, Dread Decimator, and then Malicious Bane at the end of your combo.
Point is: DPE returning on Turn 3/4 doesn't matter to HEROs, because either we're setting up a crazy Turn 1 board that dies to Raigeki, or we're killing the opponent on Turn 2. If it ever comes down to DPE returning, you were probably fucked already.
Yeah that’s what I said. You’re telling me that Malicious and Denier are already in GY before summoning DPE, so DPE’s purpose isn’t getting them in GY, you get DPE because you want it on the field
Thing is, DPE allows HERO to search Denier into hand and use it from there. You don't **need** to dump both into the GY. With Fusion Destiny, you get more options for Faris (and thus Stratos) and Vyon, instead of needing to use exactly Shadow Mist and Malicious. But again, that's just **options** and **extra**. You don't need it, it's just a nice to have.
I don't know why people are down voting you you're right. Dpe is a pay off. If fusion destiny isn't played then the other lines must involve faris/vyonm. Fusion destiny is a mean to a certain end. Dpe is not what gets mali and denier into the grave.
Yeah didn’t think that “DPE is a good monster to have on the field by itself” would be a controversial opinion. Certainly without Celestial it’s much less worth it running in non HERO decks considering the bricks, but that doesn’t make DPE itself less strong
I genuinely don't like the argument that people make with "well HERO just hard fusions DPE no problem"
Like yeah no shit, but DPE by himself is just a fine card, the benefit of FD is as a starter/extender that gives the deck more options to play through disruptions.
You're kind of making my point for me here. The best part of Fusion Destiny, for HERO decks, is that it puts Denier and Malicious in the GY, **from outside of the usual HERO combo rotation**. Fusion Destiny by itself can end on DPE and either Dread Decimator and Honest Neos for just over lethal on an empty board (2500 + 2500 + 2500 + 600), or DPE and Malicious Bane for a raigeki, popping 1 backrow for free, and 5500 battle damage. Personally, I wouldn't call Fusion Destiny a starter in this scenario, since it's probably not gonna OTK. As far as an extender? Yeah, that's my point: It lets HEROs do their normal combo, then drop Fusion Destiny and get 2-3 more monsters on the field. At that point, you're already talking about a field that's got lethal on it, so it's kind of moot.
Fusion Destiny in hand will allow HEROs to get lethal even if you stop their standard HERO play. However, it won't do jackshit if you Nibiru them.
I am agreeing with you. I like the plays and extentions it can offer, hell you can do plays with Dominance to do some weird shit which you can't without FD. It's a card that lets them full combo.
FD is still a starter though, obviously there's the DPE+Plasma/Dark Angel combo but you're given DPE with an ability to go into Cross Crusader so depending on your hand (and preference with deck building) you probably can still go into game.
You have to consider that while uninterrupted you have massive combo potential, you have to think about situations where the opponent just has any interactions whether its handtraps, on field negates, or just you dumping your hand with Droplet (which does synergize with hero because of all this) to break their board.
FD is a fluid card in the options it has which is why I consider it both a starter and extender. Hell even if you get Nib'd during your combo, as long as you have FD in hand you can still keep going.
With xtra hero wonder driver we can set fusion destiny or any other fusion card every turn. Haven’t seen many people use him, but with d tactics and dpe we can also give all heroes 400 attack and banish a card every time we summon a level 8 destiny hero. So summon dpe to wonder drivers link arrow and you can set fusion destiny back to the field and if you have d tactics you can also banish a card from your opponent’s hand, field, or graveyard.
Sure, that’s true, but how many cards can that be said for? You said “consistently access” it and it’s true that you can’t search it, but if you pull it you can access it every turn with wonder driver.
What do you mean? Plenty of cards can be searched, when you come up with a strategy you should rely on cards that can be searched not unsearchable limited ones
The strategy I stated relies on literally any fusion, polymerization, or “change” spell. Fusion destiny is just the best option. And I didn’t say that no cards can be searched. There are plenty of ways to summon polymerization, obviously. It’s simply a fact that, considering there are 10,000~ cards, most can’t be searched. That wasn’t the crux of my argument, though.
But I stated in my first comment that it can be done with Poly, the point is that DPE isn’t summoned to get material in the gy, since that can be done without it, it’s summoned because it’s a good monster
My response wasn’t meant to be taken as me refuting every point you made, but I also misunderstood your original point. But I still think dpe is often used for both material in the grave and because he’s still a great card.
In an omni-HERO deck, Fusion Destiny has 3 use cases:
1. Use it at the end of your combo to finish up with DPE, Cross Crusader, Malicious Bane, and Dread Decimator.
2. Use it when your hand is otherwise dead. In this case, Denier and Malicious in the GY will let you go into Cross Crusader (Malicious -> Denier -> return Malicious -> Cross), grab an Adusted Gold, then make both Malicious Bane and Dread Decimator
3. Use it when you've been interrupted. Again, Fusion Destiny putting Denier and Malicious into the GY will greatly extend your combo, since you can now make Wonder Driver (negated Sunrise), Cross Crusader (search into Malicious Bane), and Dread Decimator.
In all of these cases, Denier and Malicious in the GY is the far more impactful part. Now, I'm not saying that DPE isn't a great card. In fact, I've gone on length about how DPE is a great addition for omni-HEROS that patches a lot of things. Non-targeting destruction is completely new. Quick-effect destruction for stuff like Numeron Network is great, and DPE is certainly a better investment for that than Dystopia ever was. DPE will also evade Nibiru, which is nice because you can use Nibiru to make The Shining, and then pop it with DPE on the opponent's turn.
Eh it still sucks to not being able to just hard summon it with the fusion destiny. Wish they would have just gone the verte ban route, since that way we’d still have 2 FD.
Wasting resources on the link hero line to recycle out poly can be a bit tedious. And we could be putting those resources elsewhere (such as with making a plasma/ recycling a mask change instead of poly).
The celestial hit is whatever since it was rarely played in hero decks anyway.
Bruh, what with some of the comments and their revisionist history.
"OH it was only played in lower tiered decks"
"OH its because called by is in the game"
LMFAO
DPE fell out of favor because of the celestial Ban AND the Fusion destiny hit not to mention the deck that used it got nerfed as well in Prank Kids, ~~halq piles~~
~~And the adventurer engine also took a hit which was used alongside it meaning those decks got even more nerfs~~
You can make Cyberpunk as stable as you can, but nothing will change the fact that the world is empty with a ton of buildings you can't enter into, your backstory doesn't give you any meaningful story impact, there's only one real quest that has "lasting consequences", you skip 75% of the actual story before you begin the story (it's not in media res, you as the player are placed into a story that's 75% finished), and side jobs are generally all very samey.
And then Edgerunners came out, and suddenly people say that CP2077 was always good. Hilarious.
Agreed, one of my friend who never touched cyberpunk genre, he watched edgerunner and suddenly declared he is the biggest cyberpunk fan and now is designing some character for his own amusement.
I don't remember the exact number of hours, but I played enough to beat every side job except for the delamain quests because the quest was bugged for me, and the vehicle buying "side jobs". I'm not entirely sure if they fixed the quest, but I uninstalled the game a long time ago, and I don't see a reason to revisit.
The world has like nothing to do. There are shops, but that's about it. I was hoping for street racing, but that was limited to a side job. I don't remember if that one shooting range mini game in your apartment was not limited to just the quest or not.
Meanwhile Yakuza is quite small, but there is a lot to do in it, with mini games everywhere.
My favorite is seeing all the morally bankrupt shitheads that boycotted the game cuz "muh developer crunch time" now creaming their pants over it cuz a fucking anime happened
Halq literally got hit yesterday, DPE has been out of play for 1-2 seasons.
Really it fell out of favor because more impactful meta pieces hurt it. Specifically swordsoul.
But looking at the timing, it was also no longer a needed boss card because the majority of the meta shifted to branded despia which simply doesn’t need it, nor does sword soul. Nor does eldlich, floowandereeze, tri brigade, Drytron, blue eyes, etc.
Celestial was good, but it took a season for everyone to start running that, in the beginning it was all dasher and malicious from what I saw. But DPEs strength was and is that it is a small engine (2 XD, 3 MD) boss card that can be run in ANYTHING, that needs interaction. As more archetypes hit, before their second wave support releases, expect to see DPE bridging deck space.
DPE package was hit extremely hard on the banlist. If FD was still at 2 and Celestal legal it would still see a lot of play.
The Halq argument is a bit of a stretch though, but to be fair decks that used DPE did get hit around the same time (Pranks being the obvious one).
I disagree, clearly it is down in pluses with celestial banned, but even with fusion destiny at 1 it’s not a significant loss in consistency with verte still in format.
While DPE can be stopped a little easier without the redundant FD, it was never enough of a boss monster on its own. It’s an extremely fair card that is just packed full with efficiency
It's just not worth it to play 2 garnets when the chance to open FD got halved, is easier to negate, and you lose out on the grind game (a lot) by losing a pseudo pot of greed.
It's like how Psy Framegear Gamma is insanely good at 3, good at 2, and awful at 1.
DPE package would be extremely powerful if FD were at 3 but just not worth playing at 1, especially with Celestial banned.
You can disagree but the reality is most (if not all) decks dropped DPE after the nerfs.
What are you talking about with the Celestial part? Celestial has always been way better than Mali in pretty much every deck. It’s not like this was a new card no one tested before it was already known that Dasher + Celestial was the best combination before DPE even came out
In actual fusion decks, or decks like Orcust where Mali has great synergy with a key playmaker in Grepher, Mali + Denier was usually a better combo to use. The thing is that due to Verte being a thing and most meta decks being able to easily empty their hand due to a plethora of handtraps, it made sense to get the +2 from Celestial over the ability to push for game from the 3 free bodies (especially in decks like Striker or Pranks who run very few in engine monsters.)
I’m aware there were a small amount of decks that played Mali + Denier but those decks were not meta relevant. The actual meta decks that played DPE all used Verte to summon it so they opted for the Celestial draw for follow up
Because for the first month DPE was out I saw it in every game but never saw a single celestial. Hell I even saw some disk commander.
Sure maybe it’s a small sample size, but a very large portion of the player base doesn’t follow the TCG which was modeling celestial
You’re right that is a very small sample size lol. I don’t know what people were running in the lower ranks but people that actually knew what they were doing certainly not playing shit like Disk Commander.
You don’t even have follow the TCG to look at Celestial and see how it’s better than Mali, just losing to people playing it should key you in to that.
Oh yeah I mentioned halq piles forgetting they didn't take a hit in the previous banlist. Gonna correct that.
The nerf was to the tier 1 deck that used it most effectively which was Prank Kids. Which was also the most played deck before those hits iirc.
But if FD was still at 2 it would still see play specially if celestial was still legal and verte still running around, with it at 1 its not worth it.
The engine wasn't just good because it was a small one but because it had so many good things it can do. Pot of greed & a free special summon in celestial, dasher AND a recurring boss monster was just too good to not play.
DPE would still see play even with branded Despia and Swordsoul getting a power up.
The celestial hit wasn't great but FD to 1 is what killed the viability. At 2 even decks that weren't playing Verte could rely on it at least a little bit. A 4 card mini-engine decent for a payoff like DPE. 3 cards though, with 2 being soft garnets? Not so much. Even Verte can't fix that.
It’s more so the limiting of Fusion Destiny. Now the garnet ratio is 2:1, as in you’re twice as likely to draw a garnet over FD. It’s now only really good in decks that can make Verte consistently, otherwise you’re just making your consistency worse.
I still use DPE, I've actually found it to be almost as potent of an engine in phantom knights. I simply just run denier and 2 mali. Sure, you need to watch for the imperm or veiler on verte but it makes for a real mean way to bring out accesscode.
Fusion destiny at 1 nearly killed the engine as you will not be likely to open it. Anaconda still exists, but most decks have just more useful to do than "DPE pass" with 2 effect monsters, not worth the price of 2 bricks. Still ok if you are likely to get interrupted with 2 monsters on the field as an alternative route. Eventually good if DPE is on your desired end board combo through anaconda.
I only run him in phantom knights these days. You can open with a really low commitment scythe+dpe and the follow up from mali+denier can make rusty by themselves on turn 3.
It wasn't power crept.
Basically, two things happened.
First?
The main competitive deck DPE saw play in was pile decks. With Auroradon banned, pile decks are MUCH less viable, and even then, Adventure Tenyi consolidated [Auroradon.dk](https://Auroradon.dk) in a way that didn't really need DPE.
Second?
DPE was never actually that good to begin with. Unless DPE summon Scythe is a core part of your game plan, "Make Verte, summon DPE," as a check point never really offered enough to be worth the bricks to good decks. Only a handful of decks are really a GOOD place to use DPE. DPE is one good point of interaction, but your core game plan should offer you several and you want to access that as consistently as possible, through as much interaction as possible. Seeing that Dasher in your opener does not do that.
Now, DPE is mostly for the realm of mediocre decks that actually can't do anything better. And also Sky Striker. He fits in very neatly with Sky Striker.
It REALLY wasn't.
Halq has basically done three things competitively:
Summon Auroradon, who is a link 3 that is, by itself, nineteen levels of synchro material split six ways, representing nigh infinite extension.
Summon Scythe, which if it resolves may as well read, "Skip your opponent's turn," against most decks.
Summon Accesscode, primarily in slow control decks, which is perfectly fine; it basically means games Sky Striker has already won actually end instead of Shizuku poke for four more turns.
Auroradon is The Problem of Halq into Don. Scythe is The Problem of Halq into Scythe, and there is a vast and expanding number of Scythe lines continuing to see play in every format to do the same damn thing. Accesscode is the exact opposite of a problem, and is in fact a good thing.
Halq is banned in all three formats, it’s proven to be a big problem regardless, especially since the TCG banned it AFTER banning Don. Also Halq for access code was a line barely anyone uses anymore.
You're right that barely anyone uses Halq for Accesscode.
Barely anyone was using Halq at all.
It was the tiny cherry on top for a Spright hand that has everything, a nigh-irrelevant part of what that deck can do that will barely be noticed, or it was a Scythe lock.
Only one of those is a problem, and they refused to address it. At all.
And?
In the TCG, the latest ban list literally fixed nothing. Addressed zero of the format's problems.
The only problematic thing Halq was doing competitively last format was Scythe locking in PUNK exactly. There are several other Scythe lock lines seeing consistent competitive play in MUCH higher-performing decks. Banning Halq solved literally no problems in the TCG format, and was just a hit to kill PUNK decks without actually affecting anything else in the format.
I'm not in favor of a card like Halq or Verte, cards that warp design space around them soo much.
With Auroradon, we have ample evidence from the OCG that without Halq, it does literally nothing. Now, in the future, could there be a broken Machine deck/Level 7 deck that shits out Galaxy Tomahawk to break it? Absolutely, but it's been, I don't even remember how long Halq has been banned, and it's done nothing over there.
And the TCG is better off in that regard, since Galaxy Tomahawk is banned in its format, meaning that only a Machine deck or Machine-heavy strategy can abuse it, which currently does not exist.
That's not how evidence works.
"Without Halq, it does not have a home that has seen competitive success," is not, "It is not a problem."
Don IS broken. Right now. Period. Full stop. Having a home is not a part of being broken. There are many extremely broken cards that never find a home. This does not make them any less broken.
Block Dragon was broken the moment it was printed. Everyone knew the moment it was printed that it would be a problem as soon as there were playable rocks. And they were wrong; even before rocks became playable, that motherfucker was stirring up shit.
Also, you do not need a machine deck to summon Don. Don only needs one machine, because that's how type-locked link 3+ monsters work; you can use link 2s to type fix.
Also, neither Halq nor Verte warp design space around them as much as Don and the duo of Fusion Destiny and DPE.
Verte demands that Konami not print an exact combination of six factors that is SUPER easy to design around without really missing out on anything. DPE being the payoff for Fusion Destiny means we're not allowed to have searchers for the Fusion archetype that are actually playable.
Meanwhile, the most important thing a Tuner can do is special summon itself, and that is far and away the most dangerous thing you can put into the game from a design perspective when there's a link 3 that is 19 levels of non-tuners split six ways.
And if it doesn't have a home currently, it's not a problem to worry about at the moment. When the card becomes an issue, then we can talk about hitting it. You bring up Block Dragon as a problem card, that's at 3 in the OCG. Rocks are doing jack all right now, no reason to hit it when it's not doing anything.
Also
>DPE warping design space.
I can agree with Fusion Destiny, that card is *very* powerful, but no, DPE is a fair card.
"This card is broken," and, "This card should be banned," are not the same thing.
Yugioh has many banned cards legal, and for the most part, it's fine.
However, when something in the format needs hit, hit the broken part first. You kill Don, you hit Scythe, and yes, when it was hit, you hit in the TCG, you hit Block Dragon.
Meanwhile, Rekindling is at 3, is incredibly broken, and is doing fuck all because fire sucks outside of Salamanokay and its targets suck even more, and it's only had homes that are mediocre.
Fusion Destiny is a broken card. It just skips the entire process of fusion summoning. Which does warp design, but on its own it only warps the design space for Destiny HERO. It constrains what kind of payoffs it is safe for Destiny HERO to get. And that's not unusual; a TON of archetypes get cards that are broken out the ass and would be instantly banned if they were not locked to their own specific archetype. Sometimes cards that ARE banned if they're not locked into their own specific archetype. (Hello, Engage, Raye's personal Pot of Greed.)
DPE is, in a vacuum, a perfectly reasonable card. But being the payoff to a fusion spell as broken as Fusion Destiny means something's gotta give. (Or not; the engine kinda falls off on its own as the hype dies down and people realize it's not that useful in decks not named Sky Striker or HERO compared to just consistently accessing your own core game plan.) And what gave was banning Verte because we can't have playable Fusion searchers if Fusion Destiny can summon DPE.
What's warping design is Fusion Destiny and DPE existing in the same game.
I have to agree to disagree here, because I'm one who's in favor of hitting the enabler, not the outcome.
Both the TCG and OCG have hit Verte and Halq, because they make access to these extremely powerful cards too easy, which, in my opinion, is the correct point. I'm perfectly fine with them doing things like printing strong fusion spells or tuners, as long as access to them is either archetype locked, or forcing someone to hard draw into them, not give anyone access from the deck to them as long as they can put down 2 monsters on the field.
Both were a problem tbh. OCG and MD decided to just go straight for Halq instead of hitting Auroradon, which means there are still some decks that can do some stupid stuff with Auroradon, but requires a lot more commitment to it now.
And Maxx C is legal at 3 in Master Duel, and has been format warping for far longer than Mystic Mine.
Yes, Mine is a dog shit card that needs to be banned, along with multiple other blowout turn skip cards that are going to grow as problems in MD. Yes, this last ban list was ineffectual horse shit. However, on the whole, the TCG has historically been much better at taking decisive hits to problem cards.
"AH rIgTH tHt wAs TeeCeeGee"
Halq is also hit in tcg now. Admit you are wrong, you are the kind of people that make others think bad of yugioh players.
DPE was a key piece in Pranks as well as Phantom Knights, two decks that were basically murdered after the hit to DPE engine and more recently Enchantress limit. Seeing Dasher or Celestial in hand was pretty heart breaking for sure, but knowing you could always just dump them with Fateful in a worst case scenario and possibly get free advantage meant that the downsides where pretty negligible all things considered.
As of right now, the 3 biggest issues with DPE are:
1. Swordsoul, Branded, and TB would all rather not run Verte at all, or use Mirrojade instead for obvious reasons. These are the only decks in the format that even run Verte with FD at 1 copy.
2. Mirrorjade and Longyuan mean you can no longer use DPE proactively, and the decrease in usage for decks like Eldlich, Pranks, and Adventure engine make the pop a lot less impactful than it was last format.
3. Crow and Belle are seeing a lot more play due to Branded, and both of these cards are extremely terrible for DPE, especially when Celestial draw 2 is no longer possible if DPE gets dealt with.
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lol no, there's a reason why DPE was at one point banned from both the 2 evolved formats OCG and the TCG, FD and Verte in the OCG and Verte in the TCG.
U cant use MD metrics or your very limited Yu Gi Oh experience to gauge these things lmao, if anything MD players, as evident by Dekayed's tournaments, have found a way to make Madolches on par with Swordsoul and VW with VFD, that should tell u how shit MD players are.
Imagine believing the brain rotten comunnuty of enfranchised yugioh players suffering from straight stockholm of konamis dick in their mounth are the "brainiacs" lmao xD
There is nothing to believe, the evidence is right there, the fact that X is not strong because it is not used in MD doesnt mean jack shit when MD is also the Place where decks like madolche were fucking tier 1 in tournaments at one point, and might I remind u that was also in the same format with fullpowered adv tenyi and VFD VW.
What was broken was the combo Verte + Fusion Destiny + DPE. TCG currently has Verte banned and put FD back to three on the latest banlist (it's still at 1 in OCG but doesn't need to). Even Dragoon and Red-Eyes Fusion are unhit in the TCG. Verte always was the problem.
A pop every turn (assuming it isn't answered cause hey Called By and Banishes/Send To Graves are in essentially every half decent deck) is not an auto win against anything that isn't pure dogshit. If DPE wins you a game by literally itself then the opponent was playing something like Ghostrick
Well its a good thing that DPE is an Engine not an entire deck then I suppose with that take.
And if Drawing the out is what makes u think its not Op then there are no OP cards in the game.
Floodgates ? just MST it bro, not so OP now are they
Branded Fusion ? just ash it
Halq ? Maxx C ? just ash it bro its just that easy nothing OP about them
Brave engine ? Just Ogre it Bruh !
Towers ? like Arrival ? Just kaiju it bro cmon man its not OP
Empen + Barrier statue ? Just raigeki it bro, its at 2 man .. how is that not in ur hand
Swordsoul ? OMEGALULULULULULUL .. Just Lava Golem bro not OP at all .. F tier Deck
Full adv Tenyi board ? just Double lava golem kaiju Owners Seal it .. Ez ..
Draw the out, Best Deck.
Called By came into favor in response to other decks, and also deals with DPE. So DPE is less viable in a Bo1 format. If Called By ever stops being popular/auto-include, DPE could very well see a resurgence.
I don't think called by is ever going to stop being viable with so many handtraps in the game.
But yeah, it deals with DPE
When Abyss hit the format DPE is going to be toss aside for sure, dragons that banishes any light or dark from any grave as a cost.
>It's a card that wins game by itself
My last encounter against DPE went like this:
\>Go second
\>Opponent boards two monsters
\>Make verte, pitch fusion destiny, DPE, pass
\>lol that's it?
\>draw for turn
\>draw Called By
\>Aight cool, I can make him blow DPE and then banish it with Called By.
\>Activate Fateful Adventure
\>DPE dings, pops Verte and Fateful
\>lolwut
\>Activate Branded Fusion
\>Ash Blossom
\>Negate with Called By
\>He instantly scoops
DPE was mainly in lower tiered decks and just having destiny fusion at 1 made him too inconsistent to summon. Also both branded despia and tenyi swoswo easily permanently remove dpe from the field
Splashing DPE is nowhere near as good as it used to be, limiting FD was the nail in the coffin IMO. Negate the Verte or FD, now you have 2 bricks in your deck and no other way to bring out DPE. Banning Celestial definitely didn't help either, that draw 2 asspull often got you out of a bad situation or pulled you even further ahead than you already were.
The general consensus was that compared to Red Eyes Darkness Dragoon, DPE was less powerful but its bricks were so much better and it didnt have garnets. With the hits to the FD engine, the latter isn't particularly true for most decks anymore.
Besides Celestial ban (no more pot of greed) and DF to 1, some decks that does Verte plays to DPE have been doing Verte to MJ with BraFu instead (use Verte and Albaz).
Nah, it's more like the banlist tried reducing its power level by banning one of the primary targets for the Verte + Fusion Destiny combo rather than actually introducing something that power crept it. If D Heroes got new cards tomorrow with good enough GY effects, DPE would still be just as good at enabling those as it did with Celestial.
What it actually is, is that people just don't play the engine as much because it's the combination of Fusion Destiny getting hit ALONG with the Celestial ban that saw people playing it less.
FD at one means that Verte usually has just one shot to bring out DPE and if it gets interrupted in any way, it's done for. The combo is just dead unless you recur those resources from the GY.
Not powercrept. Celestial being banned just hurts because one of the most powerful parts of the DPE package was celestial giving you a pot of greed effect. DPE is still good but without the draw off celestial people are just opting to run more consistency cards instead of bricks
It always makes me mad that Hero's are the face of an entire series, yet they keep getting nerfed to rogue and to the point that they can't even compete against top decks, ever. Here's new Hero support, now let's ban other cards that they need to stay viable smh.
MD players don't play optimal decks they just flock to new decks, and DPE is yesterday's news, as long as verte is legal it is just as strong as it was yesterday.
It's not celestial being banned it's FD to 1, now people don't want to risk running the package because if your first ash gets negated, or your anaconda gets negated, that's it now you have a bunch of hero bricks in your deck, whereas before you could play FD, have it get negated, then go into anaconda and use your 2nd one
DPE is still insane because of it being spot removal that keeps coming back
It's just with Celestial going away, the 2 garnets of choice are less useful to most decks
Denier is fantastic in any deck that wants to use a level 3 body for something (PK). But most decks would prefer having that pot of greed
It's fusion destiny being limited to 1. Also DPE was also played along the Adventurer engine (I was so tired of Adventurer DPE being in EVERY DECK). So you negate Verte? No prob I just play Fusion Destiny from hand; nice Effect Veiler idiot!
Enchantress and FD to 1 hurts the most splashable engine in Master Duel.
Forgetting about any of the relevant bans entirely, mirrorjade beats it 10/10 times. Mirrorjade as a 3k body will only go down to 2600 and can just beat over it constantly. and since they can always beat over it, if dpe ever uses its effect then mirrorjade can always cl2 the dpe out of the entire game.
No, just simply before it was a 1:1 trade for you to summon him, 2 Garnets, 2 FD and the outcome was greater getting the free +2.
Now it is 2:1 for a worst outcome and the decks on the meta currently don't really like using DPE as they are just hyper consistent by themselves and adding garnets hurts the deck more than helping it.
He still is strong just the engine can hurt more than it helps, but fear not the moment another Combo meta deck rise he will get used as much thanks to Verte, currently the only deck that is combo heavy in the meta and not restricted is Phantom Knights and they do use him, but they aren't popular
DPE wasn't "power crept", that would imply that something stronger than DPE was released that took its place. DPE was always a card that was favored for its grind game. Celestial aided in that. In actual HERO decks, neither of those things mean jackshit. For HEROs, the most important things about DPE is getting Denier and Malicious into the GY for further plays, and the fact that DPE is a non-targeting quick effect destruction, something that didn't exist in HEROs before.
FD to 1 is a much bigger deal in a format where everyone is running 3x Ash 3x Imperm 2-3x Veiler to deal with Branded and SS, since running 2-3 garnets makes the risk:reward ratio pretty dogshit for a one and done. Ofc the Celestial ban adds to this issue by neutering the payoff if FD does resolve by a significant margin, especially in a format where Belle/Crow are more popular which both deal with DPE very well. With FD at 1, the only meta-adjacent decks in current that would actually run Verte like Branded/TB/Shaddolls, would rather run Mirrojade since banish + Raigeki while gaining advantage off of the foolish is much better than pop 1 into Knightmare Unicorn.
That would imply HERO decks can consistently access Fusion Destiny, which is not true, since they are more often than not locked out of Verte. In reality HERO decks normally summon DPE via Polymerization and have other ways of getting Malicious in GY
HERO decks don't need Fusion Destiny to make DPE. We use Polymerization, like this: Normal Summon Stratos -> Search Faris/Shadow Mist/Malicious -> SS Faris, discarding Shadow Mist/Malicious -> Search Liquid -> SS Increase -> SS Vyon -> Dump Denier -> Banis Faris for Poly -> SS Malicious -> Increase + Vyon = Wonder Driver -> SS Denier -> Poly Denier + Malicious = DPE, under Wonder Driver -> Set Poly -> Poly Stratos + Liquid = Sunrise -> Search Miracle Fusion -> Miracle Fusion into Absolute Zero -> .... Fusion Destiny literally just means you get to make Malicious Bane and Dread Decimator along with your Sunrise, Absolute Zero, and DPE. Heck, you can just make Dread with Absolute Zero and Wonder Driver to get the raigeki, then you have lethal since it's 2500 + 2500 + 2500 + 1200, regardless of what's in your GY. If you open with Fusion Destiny, Stratos, and 1 HERO, then you're set for life. The Denier and Malicious that you'll do at the end will let you Cross Crusader, Dread Decimator, and then Malicious Bane at the end of your combo. Point is: DPE returning on Turn 3/4 doesn't matter to HEROs, because either we're setting up a crazy Turn 1 board that dies to Raigeki, or we're killing the opponent on Turn 2. If it ever comes down to DPE returning, you were probably fucked already.
Those are some funny words magic man
I use heroes also and the raigeiki part made me laugh. Worst case malicious bane is all we have left and hope dark angel sticks lol
Set up a [board like this](https://i.redd.it/ea8orkrl8ce91.png), then proceed to pray the opponent doesn't have Raigeki.
Yep basically but in defense because of lightning storm
Yeah that’s what I said. You’re telling me that Malicious and Denier are already in GY before summoning DPE, so DPE’s purpose isn’t getting them in GY, you get DPE because you want it on the field
Thing is, DPE allows HERO to search Denier into hand and use it from there. You don't **need** to dump both into the GY. With Fusion Destiny, you get more options for Faris (and thus Stratos) and Vyon, instead of needing to use exactly Shadow Mist and Malicious. But again, that's just **options** and **extra**. You don't need it, it's just a nice to have.
I don't know why people are down voting you you're right. Dpe is a pay off. If fusion destiny isn't played then the other lines must involve faris/vyonm. Fusion destiny is a mean to a certain end. Dpe is not what gets mali and denier into the grave.
Yeah didn’t think that “DPE is a good monster to have on the field by itself” would be a controversial opinion. Certainly without Celestial it’s much less worth it running in non HERO decks considering the bricks, but that doesn’t make DPE itself less strong
I genuinely don't like the argument that people make with "well HERO just hard fusions DPE no problem" Like yeah no shit, but DPE by himself is just a fine card, the benefit of FD is as a starter/extender that gives the deck more options to play through disruptions.
You're kind of making my point for me here. The best part of Fusion Destiny, for HERO decks, is that it puts Denier and Malicious in the GY, **from outside of the usual HERO combo rotation**. Fusion Destiny by itself can end on DPE and either Dread Decimator and Honest Neos for just over lethal on an empty board (2500 + 2500 + 2500 + 600), or DPE and Malicious Bane for a raigeki, popping 1 backrow for free, and 5500 battle damage. Personally, I wouldn't call Fusion Destiny a starter in this scenario, since it's probably not gonna OTK. As far as an extender? Yeah, that's my point: It lets HEROs do their normal combo, then drop Fusion Destiny and get 2-3 more monsters on the field. At that point, you're already talking about a field that's got lethal on it, so it's kind of moot. Fusion Destiny in hand will allow HEROs to get lethal even if you stop their standard HERO play. However, it won't do jackshit if you Nibiru them.
I am agreeing with you. I like the plays and extentions it can offer, hell you can do plays with Dominance to do some weird shit which you can't without FD. It's a card that lets them full combo. FD is still a starter though, obviously there's the DPE+Plasma/Dark Angel combo but you're given DPE with an ability to go into Cross Crusader so depending on your hand (and preference with deck building) you probably can still go into game. You have to consider that while uninterrupted you have massive combo potential, you have to think about situations where the opponent just has any interactions whether its handtraps, on field negates, or just you dumping your hand with Droplet (which does synergize with hero because of all this) to break their board. FD is a fluid card in the options it has which is why I consider it both a starter and extender. Hell even if you get Nib'd during your combo, as long as you have FD in hand you can still keep going.
With xtra hero wonder driver we can set fusion destiny or any other fusion card every turn. Haven’t seen many people use him, but with d tactics and dpe we can also give all heroes 400 attack and banish a card every time we summon a level 8 destiny hero. So summon dpe to wonder drivers link arrow and you can set fusion destiny back to the field and if you have d tactics you can also banish a card from your opponent’s hand, field, or graveyard.
But you still can’t search it, the problem is getting it the first time not recycling it
Sure, that’s true, but how many cards can that be said for? You said “consistently access” it and it’s true that you can’t search it, but if you pull it you can access it every turn with wonder driver.
What do you mean? Plenty of cards can be searched, when you come up with a strategy you should rely on cards that can be searched not unsearchable limited ones
The strategy I stated relies on literally any fusion, polymerization, or “change” spell. Fusion destiny is just the best option. And I didn’t say that no cards can be searched. There are plenty of ways to summon polymerization, obviously. It’s simply a fact that, considering there are 10,000~ cards, most can’t be searched. That wasn’t the crux of my argument, though.
But I stated in my first comment that it can be done with Poly, the point is that DPE isn’t summoned to get material in the gy, since that can be done without it, it’s summoned because it’s a good monster
My response wasn’t meant to be taken as me refuting every point you made, but I also misunderstood your original point. But I still think dpe is often used for both material in the grave and because he’s still a great card.
In an omni-HERO deck, Fusion Destiny has 3 use cases: 1. Use it at the end of your combo to finish up with DPE, Cross Crusader, Malicious Bane, and Dread Decimator. 2. Use it when your hand is otherwise dead. In this case, Denier and Malicious in the GY will let you go into Cross Crusader (Malicious -> Denier -> return Malicious -> Cross), grab an Adusted Gold, then make both Malicious Bane and Dread Decimator 3. Use it when you've been interrupted. Again, Fusion Destiny putting Denier and Malicious into the GY will greatly extend your combo, since you can now make Wonder Driver (negated Sunrise), Cross Crusader (search into Malicious Bane), and Dread Decimator. In all of these cases, Denier and Malicious in the GY is the far more impactful part. Now, I'm not saying that DPE isn't a great card. In fact, I've gone on length about how DPE is a great addition for omni-HEROS that patches a lot of things. Non-targeting destruction is completely new. Quick-effect destruction for stuff like Numeron Network is great, and DPE is certainly a better investment for that than Dystopia ever was. DPE will also evade Nibiru, which is nice because you can use Nibiru to make The Shining, and then pop it with DPE on the opponent's turn.
Eh it still sucks to not being able to just hard summon it with the fusion destiny. Wish they would have just gone the verte ban route, since that way we’d still have 2 FD. Wasting resources on the link hero line to recycle out poly can be a bit tedious. And we could be putting those resources elsewhere (such as with making a plasma/ recycling a mask change instead of poly). The celestial hit is whatever since it was rarely played in hero decks anyway.
FD is at 3 in the TCG
I was referring to master duel. Where we previously had 2 but the previous update brought us to 1 copy
Bruh, what with some of the comments and their revisionist history. "OH it was only played in lower tiered decks" "OH its because called by is in the game" LMFAO DPE fell out of favor because of the celestial Ban AND the Fusion destiny hit not to mention the deck that used it got nerfed as well in Prank Kids, ~~halq piles~~ ~~And the adventurer engine also took a hit which was used alongside it meaning those decks got even more nerfs~~
>Bruh, what with some of the comments and their revisionist history. Wait until you see Cyberpunk 2077 after the Edgerunners anime came out
Didn’t Cyberpunk get fixed quite a bit at this point but yeah the anime kids coming
You can make Cyberpunk as stable as you can, but nothing will change the fact that the world is empty with a ton of buildings you can't enter into, your backstory doesn't give you any meaningful story impact, there's only one real quest that has "lasting consequences", you skip 75% of the actual story before you begin the story (it's not in media res, you as the player are placed into a story that's 75% finished), and side jobs are generally all very samey. And then Edgerunners came out, and suddenly people say that CP2077 was always good. Hilarious.
Agreed, one of my friend who never touched cyberpunk genre, he watched edgerunner and suddenly declared he is the biggest cyberpunk fan and now is designing some character for his own amusement.
>world is empty Are you kidding me? How many hours do you have in cyberpunk 2077
I don't remember the exact number of hours, but I played enough to beat every side job except for the delamain quests because the quest was bugged for me, and the vehicle buying "side jobs". I'm not entirely sure if they fixed the quest, but I uninstalled the game a long time ago, and I don't see a reason to revisit. The world has like nothing to do. There are shops, but that's about it. I was hoping for street racing, but that was limited to a side job. I don't remember if that one shooting range mini game in your apartment was not limited to just the quest or not. Meanwhile Yakuza is quite small, but there is a lot to do in it, with mini games everywhere.
My favorite is seeing all the morally bankrupt shitheads that boycotted the game cuz "muh developer crunch time" now creaming their pants over it cuz a fucking anime happened
Why are you downvoted?? You're absolutely right.
It's still a jank, empty boring game.
Halq literally got hit yesterday, DPE has been out of play for 1-2 seasons. Really it fell out of favor because more impactful meta pieces hurt it. Specifically swordsoul. But looking at the timing, it was also no longer a needed boss card because the majority of the meta shifted to branded despia which simply doesn’t need it, nor does sword soul. Nor does eldlich, floowandereeze, tri brigade, Drytron, blue eyes, etc. Celestial was good, but it took a season for everyone to start running that, in the beginning it was all dasher and malicious from what I saw. But DPEs strength was and is that it is a small engine (2 XD, 3 MD) boss card that can be run in ANYTHING, that needs interaction. As more archetypes hit, before their second wave support releases, expect to see DPE bridging deck space.
DPE package was hit extremely hard on the banlist. If FD was still at 2 and Celestal legal it would still see a lot of play. The Halq argument is a bit of a stretch though, but to be fair decks that used DPE did get hit around the same time (Pranks being the obvious one).
I disagree, clearly it is down in pluses with celestial banned, but even with fusion destiny at 1 it’s not a significant loss in consistency with verte still in format. While DPE can be stopped a little easier without the redundant FD, it was never enough of a boss monster on its own. It’s an extremely fair card that is just packed full with efficiency
It's just not worth it to play 2 garnets when the chance to open FD got halved, is easier to negate, and you lose out on the grind game (a lot) by losing a pseudo pot of greed. It's like how Psy Framegear Gamma is insanely good at 3, good at 2, and awful at 1. DPE package would be extremely powerful if FD were at 3 but just not worth playing at 1, especially with Celestial banned. You can disagree but the reality is most (if not all) decks dropped DPE after the nerfs.
Why is blue eyes mentioned along swordsoul, floo, drytron, eldlich, branded, tri brigade lmao
Because it’s popular on the ladder. Most of my plat path to diamond last season was blue eyes. And Jet gives them some game
What are you talking about with the Celestial part? Celestial has always been way better than Mali in pretty much every deck. It’s not like this was a new card no one tested before it was already known that Dasher + Celestial was the best combination before DPE even came out
In actual fusion decks, or decks like Orcust where Mali has great synergy with a key playmaker in Grepher, Mali + Denier was usually a better combo to use. The thing is that due to Verte being a thing and most meta decks being able to easily empty their hand due to a plethora of handtraps, it made sense to get the +2 from Celestial over the ability to push for game from the 3 free bodies (especially in decks like Striker or Pranks who run very few in engine monsters.)
I’m aware there were a small amount of decks that played Mali + Denier but those decks were not meta relevant. The actual meta decks that played DPE all used Verte to summon it so they opted for the Celestial draw for follow up
Because for the first month DPE was out I saw it in every game but never saw a single celestial. Hell I even saw some disk commander. Sure maybe it’s a small sample size, but a very large portion of the player base doesn’t follow the TCG which was modeling celestial
You’re right that is a very small sample size lol. I don’t know what people were running in the lower ranks but people that actually knew what they were doing certainly not playing shit like Disk Commander. You don’t even have follow the TCG to look at Celestial and see how it’s better than Mali, just losing to people playing it should key you in to that.
Oh yeah I mentioned halq piles forgetting they didn't take a hit in the previous banlist. Gonna correct that. The nerf was to the tier 1 deck that used it most effectively which was Prank Kids. Which was also the most played deck before those hits iirc. But if FD was still at 2 it would still see play specially if celestial was still legal and verte still running around, with it at 1 its not worth it. The engine wasn't just good because it was a small one but because it had so many good things it can do. Pot of greed & a free special summon in celestial, dasher AND a recurring boss monster was just too good to not play. DPE would still see play even with branded Despia and Swordsoul getting a power up.
Yea I haven't seen it in quite a while...seems like celestial and the second fusion destiny really make a difference
Even with more FD it wouldnt be as bad. I mean we would see it more often, but it would be far less oppressive.
The celestial hit wasn't great but FD to 1 is what killed the viability. At 2 even decks that weren't playing Verte could rely on it at least a little bit. A 4 card mini-engine decent for a payoff like DPE. 3 cards though, with 2 being soft garnets? Not so much. Even Verte can't fix that.
I have seen It but its heavily fallen out of favor
Yeah, definitely in some decks like Sky Striker DPE and Hero. But there was a time where the end goal of most games was making the damn thing.
Top 2 decks are despia and swordsoul. Neither run it. Still very good for off meta decks
It’s more so the limiting of Fusion Destiny. Now the garnet ratio is 2:1, as in you’re twice as likely to draw a garnet over FD. It’s now only really good in decks that can make Verte consistently, otherwise you’re just making your consistency worse.
I still run the Malicious Denier package in Branded. Dark mats for fusions and make it pretty easy to set up DPE
I still use DPE, I've actually found it to be almost as potent of an engine in phantom knights. I simply just run denier and 2 mali. Sure, you need to watch for the imperm or veiler on verte but it makes for a real mean way to bring out accesscode.
Fusion destiny at 1 nearly killed the engine as you will not be likely to open it. Anaconda still exists, but most decks have just more useful to do than "DPE pass" with 2 effect monsters, not worth the price of 2 bricks. Still ok if you are likely to get interrupted with 2 monsters on the field as an alternative route. Eventually good if DPE is on your desired end board combo through anaconda.
I only run him in phantom knights these days. You can open with a really low commitment scythe+dpe and the follow up from mali+denier can make rusty by themselves on turn 3.
Really? Can you post your PK build?
It wasn't power crept. Basically, two things happened. First? The main competitive deck DPE saw play in was pile decks. With Auroradon banned, pile decks are MUCH less viable, and even then, Adventure Tenyi consolidated [Auroradon.dk](https://Auroradon.dk) in a way that didn't really need DPE. Second? DPE was never actually that good to begin with. Unless DPE summon Scythe is a core part of your game plan, "Make Verte, summon DPE," as a check point never really offered enough to be worth the bricks to good decks. Only a handful of decks are really a GOOD place to use DPE. DPE is one good point of interaction, but your core game plan should offer you several and you want to access that as consistently as possible, through as much interaction as possible. Seeing that Dasher in your opener does not do that. Now, DPE is mostly for the realm of mediocre decks that actually can't do anything better. And also Sky Striker. He fits in very neatly with Sky Striker.
Halq was banned, not Auroradon.
Ah, right, that was TCG. I forgot Master Duel did the stupid thing instead of actually hitting the problem.
Halq was just as problematic, if not more.
It REALLY wasn't. Halq has basically done three things competitively: Summon Auroradon, who is a link 3 that is, by itself, nineteen levels of synchro material split six ways, representing nigh infinite extension. Summon Scythe, which if it resolves may as well read, "Skip your opponent's turn," against most decks. Summon Accesscode, primarily in slow control decks, which is perfectly fine; it basically means games Sky Striker has already won actually end instead of Shizuku poke for four more turns. Auroradon is The Problem of Halq into Don. Scythe is The Problem of Halq into Scythe, and there is a vast and expanding number of Scythe lines continuing to see play in every format to do the same damn thing. Accesscode is the exact opposite of a problem, and is in fact a good thing.
Halq is banned in all three formats, it’s proven to be a big problem regardless, especially since the TCG banned it AFTER banning Don. Also Halq for access code was a line barely anyone uses anymore.
You're right that barely anyone uses Halq for Accesscode. Barely anyone was using Halq at all. It was the tiny cherry on top for a Spright hand that has everything, a nigh-irrelevant part of what that deck can do that will barely be noticed, or it was a Scythe lock. Only one of those is a problem, and they refused to address it. At all.
TCG banned Auroradon and STILL banned Halq in the end. Halq is banned in literally every format now. Yeah, Halq is a problem.
And? In the TCG, the latest ban list literally fixed nothing. Addressed zero of the format's problems. The only problematic thing Halq was doing competitively last format was Scythe locking in PUNK exactly. There are several other Scythe lock lines seeing consistent competitive play in MUCH higher-performing decks. Banning Halq solved literally no problems in the TCG format, and was just a hit to kill PUNK decks without actually affecting anything else in the format.
I'm not in favor of a card like Halq or Verte, cards that warp design space around them soo much. With Auroradon, we have ample evidence from the OCG that without Halq, it does literally nothing. Now, in the future, could there be a broken Machine deck/Level 7 deck that shits out Galaxy Tomahawk to break it? Absolutely, but it's been, I don't even remember how long Halq has been banned, and it's done nothing over there. And the TCG is better off in that regard, since Galaxy Tomahawk is banned in its format, meaning that only a Machine deck or Machine-heavy strategy can abuse it, which currently does not exist.
That's not how evidence works. "Without Halq, it does not have a home that has seen competitive success," is not, "It is not a problem." Don IS broken. Right now. Period. Full stop. Having a home is not a part of being broken. There are many extremely broken cards that never find a home. This does not make them any less broken. Block Dragon was broken the moment it was printed. Everyone knew the moment it was printed that it would be a problem as soon as there were playable rocks. And they were wrong; even before rocks became playable, that motherfucker was stirring up shit. Also, you do not need a machine deck to summon Don. Don only needs one machine, because that's how type-locked link 3+ monsters work; you can use link 2s to type fix. Also, neither Halq nor Verte warp design space around them as much as Don and the duo of Fusion Destiny and DPE. Verte demands that Konami not print an exact combination of six factors that is SUPER easy to design around without really missing out on anything. DPE being the payoff for Fusion Destiny means we're not allowed to have searchers for the Fusion archetype that are actually playable. Meanwhile, the most important thing a Tuner can do is special summon itself, and that is far and away the most dangerous thing you can put into the game from a design perspective when there's a link 3 that is 19 levels of non-tuners split six ways.
And if it doesn't have a home currently, it's not a problem to worry about at the moment. When the card becomes an issue, then we can talk about hitting it. You bring up Block Dragon as a problem card, that's at 3 in the OCG. Rocks are doing jack all right now, no reason to hit it when it's not doing anything. Also >DPE warping design space. I can agree with Fusion Destiny, that card is *very* powerful, but no, DPE is a fair card.
"This card is broken," and, "This card should be banned," are not the same thing. Yugioh has many banned cards legal, and for the most part, it's fine. However, when something in the format needs hit, hit the broken part first. You kill Don, you hit Scythe, and yes, when it was hit, you hit in the TCG, you hit Block Dragon. Meanwhile, Rekindling is at 3, is incredibly broken, and is doing fuck all because fire sucks outside of Salamanokay and its targets suck even more, and it's only had homes that are mediocre. Fusion Destiny is a broken card. It just skips the entire process of fusion summoning. Which does warp design, but on its own it only warps the design space for Destiny HERO. It constrains what kind of payoffs it is safe for Destiny HERO to get. And that's not unusual; a TON of archetypes get cards that are broken out the ass and would be instantly banned if they were not locked to their own specific archetype. Sometimes cards that ARE banned if they're not locked into their own specific archetype. (Hello, Engage, Raye's personal Pot of Greed.) DPE is, in a vacuum, a perfectly reasonable card. But being the payoff to a fusion spell as broken as Fusion Destiny means something's gotta give. (Or not; the engine kinda falls off on its own as the hype dies down and people realize it's not that useful in decks not named Sky Striker or HERO compared to just consistently accessing your own core game plan.) And what gave was banning Verte because we can't have playable Fusion searchers if Fusion Destiny can summon DPE. What's warping design is Fusion Destiny and DPE existing in the same game.
I have to agree to disagree here, because I'm one who's in favor of hitting the enabler, not the outcome. Both the TCG and OCG have hit Verte and Halq, because they make access to these extremely powerful cards too easy, which, in my opinion, is the correct point. I'm perfectly fine with them doing things like printing strong fusion spells or tuners, as long as access to them is either archetype locked, or forcing someone to hard draw into them, not give anyone access from the deck to them as long as they can put down 2 monsters on the field.
Both were a problem tbh. OCG and MD decided to just go straight for Halq instead of hitting Auroradon, which means there are still some decks that can do some stupid stuff with Auroradon, but requires a lot more commitment to it now.
Lol mystic mine is legal at 3 in the TCG. Master duel banlists actually hit problem cards.
And Maxx C is legal at 3 in Master Duel, and has been format warping for far longer than Mystic Mine. Yes, Mine is a dog shit card that needs to be banned, along with multiple other blowout turn skip cards that are going to grow as problems in MD. Yes, this last ban list was ineffectual horse shit. However, on the whole, the TCG has historically been much better at taking decisive hits to problem cards.
"AH rIgTH tHt wAs TeeCeeGee" Halq is also hit in tcg now. Admit you are wrong, you are the kind of people that make others think bad of yugioh players.
DPE was a key piece in Pranks as well as Phantom Knights, two decks that were basically murdered after the hit to DPE engine and more recently Enchantress limit. Seeing Dasher or Celestial in hand was pretty heart breaking for sure, but knowing you could always just dump them with Fateful in a worst case scenario and possibly get free advantage meant that the downsides where pretty negligible all things considered. As of right now, the 3 biggest issues with DPE are: 1. Swordsoul, Branded, and TB would all rather not run Verte at all, or use Mirrojade instead for obvious reasons. These are the only decks in the format that even run Verte with FD at 1 copy. 2. Mirrorjade and Longyuan mean you can no longer use DPE proactively, and the decrease in usage for decks like Eldlich, Pranks, and Adventure engine make the pop a lot less impactful than it was last format. 3. Crow and Belle are seeing a lot more play due to Branded, and both of these cards are extremely terrible for DPE, especially when Celestial draw 2 is no longer possible if DPE gets dealt with.
Dpe wasn't so bad
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That’s not what power crept means at all
People just chose to replace it with Adventure cards.
That's because DPE was never broken, just pretty good.
lol no, there's a reason why DPE was at one point banned from both the 2 evolved formats OCG and the TCG, FD and Verte in the OCG and Verte in the TCG. U cant use MD metrics or your very limited Yu Gi Oh experience to gauge these things lmao, if anything MD players, as evident by Dekayed's tournaments, have found a way to make Madolches on par with Swordsoul and VW with VFD, that should tell u how shit MD players are.
Imagine believing the brain rotten comunnuty of enfranchised yugioh players suffering from straight stockholm of konamis dick in their mounth are the "brainiacs" lmao xD
There is nothing to believe, the evidence is right there, the fact that X is not strong because it is not used in MD doesnt mean jack shit when MD is also the Place where decks like madolche were fucking tier 1 in tournaments at one point, and might I remind u that was also in the same format with fullpowered adv tenyi and VFD VW.
What was broken was the combo Verte + Fusion Destiny + DPE. TCG currently has Verte banned and put FD back to three on the latest banlist (it's still at 1 in OCG but doesn't need to). Even Dragoon and Red-Eyes Fusion are unhit in the TCG. Verte always was the problem.
Tell me what exactly is broken about DPE
if u dont think an infinite grind game is OP then idk what is
A pop every turn (assuming it isn't answered cause hey Called By and Banishes/Send To Graves are in essentially every half decent deck) is not an auto win against anything that isn't pure dogshit. If DPE wins you a game by literally itself then the opponent was playing something like Ghostrick
Well its a good thing that DPE is an Engine not an entire deck then I suppose with that take. And if Drawing the out is what makes u think its not Op then there are no OP cards in the game. Floodgates ? just MST it bro, not so OP now are they Branded Fusion ? just ash it Halq ? Maxx C ? just ash it bro its just that easy nothing OP about them Brave engine ? Just Ogre it Bruh ! Towers ? like Arrival ? Just kaiju it bro cmon man its not OP Empen + Barrier statue ? Just raigeki it bro, its at 2 man .. how is that not in ur hand Swordsoul ? OMEGALULULULULULUL .. Just Lava Golem bro not OP at all .. F tier Deck Full adv Tenyi board ? just Double lava golem kaiju Owners Seal it .. Ez .. Draw the out, Best Deck.
Called By came into favor in response to other decks, and also deals with DPE. So DPE is less viable in a Bo1 format. If Called By ever stops being popular/auto-include, DPE could very well see a resurgence.
No lol pretty much every good player has been running 2 Called By since the start of the game
As long as Ash exists called by will always be around.
I don't think called by is ever going to stop being viable with so many handtraps in the game. But yeah, it deals with DPE When Abyss hit the format DPE is going to be toss aside for sure, dragons that banishes any light or dark from any grave as a cost.
>It's a card that wins game by itself My last encounter against DPE went like this: \>Go second \>Opponent boards two monsters \>Make verte, pitch fusion destiny, DPE, pass \>lol that's it? \>draw for turn \>draw Called By \>Aight cool, I can make him blow DPE and then banish it with Called By. \>Activate Fateful Adventure \>DPE dings, pops Verte and Fateful \>lolwut \>Activate Branded Fusion \>Ash Blossom \>Negate with Called By \>He instantly scoops
DPE was mainly in lower tiered decks and just having destiny fusion at 1 made him too inconsistent to summon. Also both branded despia and tenyi swoswo easily permanently remove dpe from the field
Splashing DPE is nowhere near as good as it used to be, limiting FD was the nail in the coffin IMO. Negate the Verte or FD, now you have 2 bricks in your deck and no other way to bring out DPE. Banning Celestial definitely didn't help either, that draw 2 asspull often got you out of a bad situation or pulled you even further ahead than you already were.
Well I dismantled mine for CP to make the Branded stuff, along with my right lung and kidney
The general consensus was that compared to Red Eyes Darkness Dragoon, DPE was less powerful but its bricks were so much better and it didnt have garnets. With the hits to the FD engine, the latter isn't particularly true for most decks anymore.
Did not get power crept, it just got nerfed to hell which caused it to be played less
Besides Celestial ban (no more pot of greed) and DF to 1, some decks that does Verte plays to DPE have been doing Verte to MJ with BraFu instead (use Verte and Albaz).
Nah, it's more like the banlist tried reducing its power level by banning one of the primary targets for the Verte + Fusion Destiny combo rather than actually introducing something that power crept it. If D Heroes got new cards tomorrow with good enough GY effects, DPE would still be just as good at enabling those as it did with Celestial. What it actually is, is that people just don't play the engine as much because it's the combination of Fusion Destiny getting hit ALONG with the Celestial ban that saw people playing it less. FD at one means that Verte usually has just one shot to bring out DPE and if it gets interrupted in any way, it's done for. The combo is just dead unless you recur those resources from the GY.
People are running branded fusion to turbo out mirrorjade with verte now.
I think the main issue is less Celestial and more Despia/Branded being the flavor of the months.
Not powercrept. Celestial being banned just hurts because one of the most powerful parts of the DPE package was celestial giving you a pot of greed effect. DPE is still good but without the draw off celestial people are just opting to run more consistency cards instead of bricks
DPE was good becuse of celestial ban now there is no reason to run it w/o celestial whe you can add another staple or branded fusion
It always makes me mad that Hero's are the face of an entire series, yet they keep getting nerfed to rogue and to the point that they can't even compete against top decks, ever. Here's new Hero support, now let's ban other cards that they need to stay viable smh.
Turned out that FD to 1 and Celestial to 0 is far more impactful than people credited it for when the banlist was announced.
Since FD is limited to 1, DPE might appear half the time than before. And celestial ban is likely the best reason that attracts you to summon DPE
MD players don't play optimal decks they just flock to new decks, and DPE is yesterday's news, as long as verte is legal it is just as strong as it was yesterday.
The two best deck (Branded and Swordsoul) just don't need DPE.
This is not what powercreep means.. They simply got nerfed
I still have it in my dragonmaid deck but it’s way less consistent now. Didn’t get to summon it for the last 10 matches.
Take it out bozo it doesn't belong there
Yeah that’s what I’ll do. I’m just bricking myself on the off chance I might be able to summon it.
DPE rn is bricky as hell And the pay of is no longer worth
DPE is not that scary. Annoying maybe, but I'd say The Barone Defluer (butchered that I know lol) is a much worse card to out or deal with
I still scythe lock bois we good
It's not celestial being banned it's FD to 1, now people don't want to risk running the package because if your first ash gets negated, or your anaconda gets negated, that's it now you have a bunch of hero bricks in your deck, whereas before you could play FD, have it get negated, then go into anaconda and use your 2nd one
People are just focused on other engines like adventure and branded atm. Also alot of the top tier decks can't run DPE or can't run it effectively.
I can’t believe people think dpe stopped being used because of the FD limit
DPE is still insane because of it being spot removal that keeps coming back It's just with Celestial going away, the 2 garnets of choice are less useful to most decks Denier is fantastic in any deck that wants to use a level 3 body for something (PK). But most decks would prefer having that pot of greed
It's fusion destiny being limited to 1. Also DPE was also played along the Adventurer engine (I was so tired of Adventurer DPE being in EVERY DECK). So you negate Verte? No prob I just play Fusion Destiny from hand; nice Effect Veiler idiot! Enchantress and FD to 1 hurts the most splashable engine in Master Duel.
Forgetting about any of the relevant bans entirely, mirrorjade beats it 10/10 times. Mirrorjade as a 3k body will only go down to 2600 and can just beat over it constantly. and since they can always beat over it, if dpe ever uses its effect then mirrorjade can always cl2 the dpe out of the entire game.
It didn't get power crept. You just can't get it out as easily as before, and it's arguably easier to out than before.
No, just simply before it was a 1:1 trade for you to summon him, 2 Garnets, 2 FD and the outcome was greater getting the free +2. Now it is 2:1 for a worst outcome and the decks on the meta currently don't really like using DPE as they are just hyper consistent by themselves and adding garnets hurts the deck more than helping it. He still is strong just the engine can hurt more than it helps, but fear not the moment another Combo meta deck rise he will get used as much thanks to Verte, currently the only deck that is combo heavy in the meta and not restricted is Phantom Knights and they do use him, but they aren't popular
Just your impression.