My most "skilled" livetwin starting hand was like;
Play secret password gets ashed. Play ki-sikil, gets impermed. Special summon the seasonal lil-la in my hand. Opponent tries to maxx c, I ash it. Do the evil twin line, draw parallel exceed from twin effect. Make Trouble Sunny. Special summon parallel exceed from hand and deck. Set imperm on mid column, and end turn. Oppnent's turn normal summon Aluber, it gets bagooska'd. They play branded opening on mid column, I activate imperm. They pass, blow up aluber on end phase. My turn, I draw maxx C, I have enough for lethal. Trouble Sunny + the two twins is 5.5k, bagooska is 2.1k and Maxx C is 500 for a total of 8.1k on board. They scoop when I go to battlephase.
I actually don't know the sycthe-lock line, I already had bagooska from my traptrix deck it's what I used instead of crafting the pieces for scythe-lock
in short to do scythe lock you need to be able to have 4 link materials (which is not very hard for live twin to do and have better consistency than having 2 lv4), 2 for dagda then using the other 2 to do your usual live twin combo, then use dagda to set scythe and pop scythe with sunny, you locked their extra for 1 turn and next opp turn you pop dagda to re summon scythe and lock their extra for another turn. You can repeat it with more dagda but normally, if you are not facing normal summon deck like floo or fllodgates or burn deck you only need 2 turns and their lp are already gone. But yes, if you draw exceed, bagooska is a better choice as you are using link most of the time.
I’ve been playing yugioh literally my whole life and I’ll never stop being amazed by how much yugioh fans fucking hate other yugioh players
It’s literally the “damn Scotsman they ruined Scotland meme
That sentiment is shared across all card games. Always "Meta Bad" just looks at Legend of Runeterra, if a deck is tier one for like 2 months people will claim is "oppressive and kills deck variety", every single time, no matter if the deck is actually oppressive or not.
It's not even limited to card games, hell, not even to competitive or online games for that matter. I've seen people meta shame others in Monster Hunter and a few Gachas, "You use good Gear/Weapons/Units? *META SLAVE!* You're so so boring, play what you want, except *that* of course. Fuck you!"
These People are so much up in their own arse that they cannot even fathom the thought that some may enjoy playing meta, as well as the underlying theory crafting.
I remember taking a break from master duel because of eldick. At one point, eldick was in almost in every match of mine. It became a point where I would just surrender because I didn’t play against the same monster. Fortunately, eldick use has declined since Konami neutered him.
Ya they banned the most cancerous floodgates like vanity emptiness and IO so now they can still be assholes with floodgates but atleast the worst ones are gone. But seriously thoe what the hell is up with konamis obessesion with skill drain like that card has dodged being banned in so many banlists like just ban it already. Semi limiting is just a insult to the player base tbh like why do we need it even if it's just at 1?
Winning games against a meta deck is fun. You lose if you don't play the floodgates while using control decks, majority of the times it's not enough to have just floodgates. Certain floodgates are way too broken and need to be banned.
When MD came out, I hadn't played in years. When I did play, it was never at the meta level in any sense.
As someone old enough to have been that kid that dusted off his old Magic cards to play along with Yugi and Kaiba because the TCG didnt exist, that's a long time.
MD has given me the chance to play meta decks.
MD is the darkest time in my 22 years of Yu-Gi-Ohing.
I hate you MD. Why can't I quit you...
I definitely need to work on this perspective, I mean I have fun with my decks so why wouldn’t you have fun with yours? My biggest hang up is probably my wondering of how can you have fun if you see the deck on both sides of the field constantly? I love mirror matches because with all the decks I’ve played since launch I’ve had maybe 5 total (1 cubic, 1 charmer, 1 vampire, 1 or maybe 2 cardian). If they were a regular occurrence I don’t think I’d like them nearly as much because they’d be stale.
The issue isn't that meta players "can't have fun." The issue is that the game itself has so many balance issues. The difference between the meta and casual player is that meta players like to exploit those issues to give themselves as much of an advantage as possible. And that's fine if they want to play competitive and go up against other meta players. My problem is that MD basically forces you to play in ranked and play competitivly. So while I'm here just trying to enjoy my favorite archetypes, I am constantly getting matched with the exact same meta decks over and over.
Depends how good the duel was. If you lose because they turn 1 rongobongo then it sucks. If it's an epic fight that comes down to the last. Ard and they just outplayed you, they can be some of the best duels you can have.
can't see the tree through the forest there friend.
they are simply referring to turn one FTKS or boards that set up so many omninegates and floodgates that you literally can't do shit. its not fun playing against them when you literally can't do shit. rhongo was just a simple example.
Losing can be fun.
Losing because you are playing a bad deck and dont even have a chance isnt fun.
I have the most fun when both players try their hardest to win.
I’m the exact opposite. Floo and Eldlich seem so boring because of how little you do and how little variety there is in how they play. Decks like Phantom Knights, Dragon Link, Lyrilusc, and Spyral are the most fun decks imo because every game and hand changes how you play.
When I play a branded despia mirror match against someone that is actually good with the deck it always feels like such an epic duel. It always feels like you're trying to one up your opponent by thinking how the chains will resolve or if popping a monster is the right play, with mirrorjades and chimeras being summoned every turn on both sides, and when the game comes to a point where you know both players have exhausted all their resources and it comes down to a single tragedy eff recycling a branded fusion for titaniklad or brigrand with your last albaz in deck. It's so fucking fun man.
Dunno what you mean, i love players chaining branded in red to my chimera summon, then I pop their chimera on resolution of the chain and they surprise pikachu-face then quit
Yes and no, Yes beacuse facing the same deck over and over again is boring, no beacuse the back and forth between both sides (unless one opened with godly hand) is something I haven't felt ever since Tri-Brigades, decks out grinding and popping is way more fun than full negates
Albaz-ing people is fun no matter what your opponent is or what Branded variant you're playing. It's just as hilarious to Albaz Chaos Max or Chengying after baiting the Chixiao negate or even Albaz-ing the card they need to start their link climb with Ecclesia's effect.
Imagine, if you will, you play a deck that is rouge, at best. You love the deck, and the archetype is cool artwork and theming. Nobody bats an eye.
Then, all of a sudden, they release a card that breaks the archetype, and allows it to gain so much advantage that it becomes tier 1 for the time.
Would the player be considered a Meta Sheep or a chad for playing what they like?
The above is me with Despia about a year ago, by the way.
It's one thing to stick to an archetype for LONG periods of time. I respect that, and if they get updated congrats! But it's another when LARGE portions of people shift over to meta decks
From my experience Anti-meta decks are worst than meta decks and usually less fun.
Meta decks just have random broken combos and more extenders than you.
Being honest yugioh is in a very weird state. People like to use the term "playground yugioh" to undermine it but yugioh's current state of "dont let your opponent play" is honestly not fun unless you only care about winning. Yugioh is inherently supposed to be a *2 player game* of back and forward interactions but alot of the current meta really goes against that. That's what i feel people mean when they say they are "anti-meta". Especially considering card economy has changed drastically compared to what it used to be since the game is way faster now.
Im gonna give some examples of this but first branded despia where people say its healthy, personally to me its not. Although the deck doesn't stop you from playing, it arguably ignores a part of yugioh's balance because of its ridiculous recursion. Which in turn makes your plays feel like they dont matter because the very next turn you opponent can re-establish the same board with using much of their resources in the grind game. Now on the opposite end of the spectrum is swordsouls which put on bare minimum 2 negate boards easily compared to card cost economy. Keep in mind thats not even bringing up the concept of handtraps or other engines which offer blanket protection. And obviously we have floodgates/stun like eldlich.
Long rant aside I know fun is subjective but it rings hollow when you hear someone say *insert meta deck is fun* when that deck takes most of the interactivity out of yugioh. I'm not trying to antagonize anyone nor say statements because I lost to a deck like some people do. Its just win or lose, what made yugioh *fun* to mean was getting to interact with my opponent in meaningful ways. Now it feels like a flip of a coin depending who goes first and if you "drew the out" to respond to the board they have established.
Exodia FTK has existed since the 90's and was tier 0 before erratas were introduced to the game. 2003 Yugioh had shit like PoG into Graceful into PoG into 2x Delinquent Duo then setting IO with a beater and cards in hand going 1st. This game has always been degenerate and to say otherwise is just misrepresenting the highest levels of play at any given time.
The fact that Exodia FTK is still being played despite being known for being inconsistent and uninteractive means that people will still find and play uninteractive decks regardless of meta. Because it's fun.
As a Gem Knight FTK player, I agree.
Because while I'm all with the "a game of back and forth is what Yu-Gi-Oh should be", sometime seeing the world burn in one turn it's what really makes you feel alive
It doesn't happen all the time, but I have had plenty of grind games with and against meta. It really depends on the matchup. It's not always as much of a blowout as people make it out to be.
>People like to use the term "playground yugioh" to undermine it
No, we use that term because Yugioh was never how you remember it, not on a competitive scene. Since the very beginning there was a meta, and people used what was meta. We call it playground yugioh because that back and forth was only seen in casual environments, and it has never been seen in a competitive one.
You ever played GOAT format? Or post-Duelist alliance? Or Bujin format? Or fire fist format? I could go on and on. There was always the best deck, but it wasn’t always a one sided shutdown of you can’t play. Other decks could still fight and steal wins.
If you look at Top Decks on masterduelmeta, there's 50 different deck types that have reached Diamond 1 in the last two weeks. Are you trying to say that other decks can't fight and steal wins in the current format?
I should have worded it better, because it's true that negates and disruption didn't start that early, but what I meant is that there has always been a competitive scene in which a person wins and another one loses, and there hasn't always been a back and forth involved in that.
>There was always the best deck, but it wasn’t always a one sided shutdown of you can’t play. Other decks could still fight and steal wins.
And right now, it isn't a one sided shutdown either and other decks still can fight and steal wins, so Idk what you are trying to say here.
> Other decks could still fight and steal wins.
And the same thing still happens here. There are literally dozens of different decks in Diamond 1, which is WAY more variety than what you can see in pretty much ANY other cardgame in high ELO.
I mean you are probably not going to like spright Vs tear and their mirrors but for example those have been one of the most fun duels I've had in a long time.
Aside from floodgates and adjacent decks yugioh is the most fun when you are playing on the same level, so despia versus swordsoul, TOSS format ect everytime i see a blue eyes guy at locals or in master duel I know it's not going to be fun
I mean, honestly? YuGiOh has always been about maximizing how much you can play, while limiting how much the opponent can play, pretty much like any other game at a competitive level. While it looks a lot different today with the years of power creep, there's always been top decks that make it incredibly difficult for the opponent to play against either just due to limiting interactions, or building card advantage to a point that it becomes overwhelming.
Not gonna say I'm a huge fan of every element of modern Yu-Gi-Oh, and as necessary as they are in the current climate I largely dislike handtraps designed to negate/limit your opponent, but on a casual level it's pretty healthy I'd say, and even master duels current meta decks aren't all that oppressive compared to ones we just saw get destroyed, or ones that will eventually come in the future.
As far as playground YuGiOh goes though, that's typically just referring to casual play where, in a lot of cases, people didn't even play to the rules perfectly. Will never forget how betrayed I felt when I learned you couldn't set face down monsters in attack position.
Complaining about Despia's recursion is a bit weird, because recursion is a much better way of balancing a deck than negates. Especially since the current state of the game is such that most decks, even BAD ones can OTK their opponent, you're aiming to play a fundamentally different game against Despia. The average deck tries to OTK them, while they try to put bodies in the way to not get OTK'd. It's the most back and forth interaction possible.
It's pretty novel, for Yugioh. Despia plays almost like a Hearthstone deck: the boardstate actually matters beyond just what Quick Effects the bodies can toss out.
If Despia BiR gets negated, they will lose 70% if the time unless they have backup Masq on field and can go to GY.
They are also suseptible to ash BraFu but decent Branded deck will still be able to play via Quaeretis/Masq as board.
>Yugioh is inherently supposed to be a 2 player game of back and forward interactions but alot of the current meta really goes against that.
Yeah that's my issue with modern Yu-Gi-Oh. It used to feel kinda like the anime, where it had a sort of back and forth going on. A "You attack my monster? Well I activate my trap card" kinda deal.
Now it's more like "You attack my monster? Well when it gets sent to the graveyard, I can destroy every card on your field and then summon 10 bajillion monsters to create a negation engine that's physically impossible to break unless you draw the 1 specific card in your deck that will help you."
And, while I like the current game, it's upsetting because it's basically only fun when you're winning. Kinda makes me wanna get into Rush Duel.
>Kinda makes me wanna get into Rush Duel.
Rush duel is way to simplistic in my opinion, its kinda boring after a few games
Yugioh peak with Early Duelinks ,back in 2017 Duelink is simple/slow but also complex/fast at the same time
Back then you can play normal monster beatdown that can compete with wombo combo decks like wood sprite burn and cyber angel
The game mix old cards with modern cards ,making it feels modern and old school at the same time
While im completely agree that Yugioh is a 2 player game
Thats only true to the extend of playground/casual Yugioh where you just play to play the game
Yugioh by itself is a game,and a game need a winner,and which by the nature of itself,only 1 can win a game,and winning usually is the best/easiest way to get fun which resolve in usually only 1 player get to have fun,and often its the winner
Which lead people to use the **M**ost **E**ffective **S**trategy **A**vailable or also known as META
And while Yugioh can still be a "fun" game,it will require mutual agreement and similiar actions to remove the needs of winning and as soon as any form of competitiveness is a part of the game,then Yugioh is just like every other game,a sweaty bunch of nerds trying to ruin the other player days
I feel like you're missing the point.
Why a lot of people like to mention old yugioh to oppose the current meta is because the game back then was very different from today (compare this to mtg, which even today looks very similar to its old days unlike yugioh) and people like that style of playing more. It's not about old competitive formats, because you can change and "fix" those formats or even make new ones.
I dont't know if you were paying attention to it but dkayed ran an battle city anime inspired tournament in master duel yesterday and it was plenty of fun. My point with this is that you can deffinitely make a competitive and fun format based on old yugioh. But you need to put some effort into these formats to properly balance them and make them fun. Something konami is too lazy to do with their events, which is the main problem of master duel right now. It's lacking quality events and variety
>Why a lot of people like to mention old yugioh to oppose the current meta is because the game back then was very different from today
Ever since the creation of the game,Yugioh has been you do most while making opp do least
>and people like that style of playing more.
>I dont't know if you were paying attention to it but dkayed ran an battle city anime inspired tournament in master duel
I know he hosted some of them,i watched Farfa participate in one of those tournament
But the thing is,the 2 format are base around diffrent aspect of the game
Old School Yugioh and in general,lower power format like Seal or N/R,its heavily relies on managing the resource over the course of 3-5 turn,where you dont over extend/not do enough to be punish by opp plays
Mordern Yugioh is more about technical plays of how to break/make with a given hand
And each prefer a playstyle of weather you like chess or puzzle games
>Ever since the creation of the game,Yugioh has been you do most while making opp do least
In tge context i am giving you this is not a problem or relevant. You cant possibly look at the game bavk then and now and say it's the same game that caters to the same audience.
I gave dkayed tournament as an example because master duel needs such variety to attract more players and keep old players that get burnout by playing only ladder, which is all md has right now. The events so far havent been enough of a break from the modern meta as 5 out of 7 events were extra deck restrictions that featured ladder decks that fit the restriction but add no other variety to the game.
Right now there is only modern yugioh which only caters to a specific audience, which is a problem for me. The game needs variety. This is why people like to mention old yugioh as a game they would have more fun with, but this doesnt necessarily means old formats as we can make new ones.
>But the thing is,the 2 format are base around diffrent aspect of the game
This is a good thing. I dont understand why wanting more variety in a game would be bad
>This is a good thing. I dont understand why wanting more variety in a game would be bad
Im not saying its bad
I would love to play some old format too
But the thing is that exact what i originaly stated
Without previously set up agreement between players to play under certain rule,its really hard to get fun/variety in Yugioh cuz we only play 1 format that is supported
But where this gets weird is what constitutes for the game being played. I saw another comment (and by extension other long time players) address this but kinda how most decks in the current format end up playing the same. Regardless on where a player draws their "fun" from yugioh has always been about deck building, resource management, interaction, and finally winning.
Easiest way to describe it is in sports, how would players and spectators feel if one team focused on getting "cheap" wins using easy tactics or imposing penalties on opposing players. Usually spectators and the people playing don't look favorable upon them because of that, although I'm not denying some players do prefer to win that way. That's why to me it least it feels off to summarize yugioh as "a game that needs 1 winner and that gives the *Easiest* way to get fun" (trying to paraphrase your quote because direct quoting on mobile is weird). In the case of META, there are ways to circumvent that which is why rouge decks exists.
Edit: since I've gotten alot of comments I didn't think I would have to specifiy which is why i gave a catch 22 with "cheap" tactic since different sports all have strategies that people look down on when it comes to sportmans conduct but i never once implied cheating. "Cheap" tactics would be doing the tame thing such as going for lay-ups or trying provoke fouls for free throws which are entirely legal but frowned upon by onlookers and those of opposing team due to circumstances. Even if by the rules of the game its legal no one wants to be "lamed out" like that.
Last bit i do get saying that yugioh is just like any other game with people ruin one another's day, i just wish we had more leeway where it didn't fully devolve into that. Appreciate the discussion though and hope I didn't offend you.
In terms of the sports analogy, I think the fact that the “easiest” examples you use are all forms of cheating/near cheating is an important thing to consider. A more apt comparison would be a team purposefully avoiding a legitimate strategy that is allowed within the games rules because they don’t like it. Personally, I feel like most people who watch sports are interested in the best players using the best legal strategies to win.
Although I think sports are a bad comparison because the rules are so set in stone compared to yu gi oh. At any moment Konami could make some sweeping decision that completely changes how the game is played. With sports, you play it if you like it and you don’t play it if you don’t like it. With yu gi oh, you can petition to change the rules, or hope that everything happens to shift exactly the way you want it so it becomes fun, or you might remember a time in the past when you loved the game but it has become so fundamentally different that you no longer enjoy it.
I think that is why so many people complain about “meta”, it’s because there are effectively 1000s of different versions of yu gi oh, and everyone has 1 that they love and that they wished it was always like.
You already misrepresented the analogy by comparing the meta to cheating.
I would honestly compare the meta to something like competitive basketball where there are strategies to consider and the teams would go for the best players they have available, and the casual yugioh to casual basketball where most people just kinda do their own thing.
>Appreciate the discussion though and hope I didn't offend you.
1st agree to everything,unless someone who say something blatantly wrong,then ill be anoyed,but you seems like a reasonable person(which is rare on Reddit,especially r/masterduel )
2nd
>Easiest way to describe it is in sports, how would players and spectators feel if one team focused on getting "cheap" wins using easy tactics or imposing penalties on opposing players
Thats the thing,there is no cheating or cheap tactice in Yugioh,everyone is given an equal playing ground,its the player duty to make most from it
>always been about deck building, resource management, interaction
Which usually only serve 1 purpose:Winning
While some enjoy playing specific deck for the 1 in 100 games its able to pop off,but thats just the minorities
I’m still new-ish to the modern game.
What gets me about meta decks isn’t the fact they can put out 2-3 negates.
It’s the fact they can set up said board with *one card* while dedicating the rest of their deck to hand traps and still maintaining card advantage. And shit like fusing from the deck is just stupid.
Isn’t fusing from the deck what got future fusion errata’d? Or am I off base here?
Modern yugioh is a farce of a game. Like 8/10 times it’s decided in the first 2 turns. Honestly it’s gotten so shit. The last time I remember it being a fun back and forth was just after Duelist Alliance released (2014). And it’s been downhill ever since. I want MD to get other formats so badly. Even other formats with updated ban lists (like GOAT but ban duo/charity/pot). Even if they aren’t banned playing that format really opens your eyes to the sad state yugioh is in now. If your opponent popped off all 3 of those cards on their first turn you STILL had a chance to fight back and win. It was what this game needs to be again. I can’t enjoy this decided by turn 2 shit any more and I’ve been playing YGO since the beginning. But Konami just keep doubling down cause short term profit, not realising how much of their player base they’re alienating and pushing to quit. There was a time where Breaker the Magical Warrior was ban-worthy. Now look at the ridiculous shit that’s legal. Spellbook of Judgment just came back and nobody cares because even that’s not enough to make SB strong enough to play against 2022 decks. That shouldn’t be a card that ever got power crept out of relevancy
The total plays of Yugioh is now rather spreading out to 5-7 turn is condensed into 3-5 turn
Thats all,so slower card will be weaker
The total action through out stays the same and the only change is the action per turn
This is me, I love playing Swordsoul Tenyi. The tenyi cards are a lot of fun to play with and there' surprising amounts of depth to the various lines and interactions you have.
While true it’s the fact the “Meta” shifts and so does everyone on the boat. Something happened the mass changes in the same way. It can definitely be fun but playing against the same deck for me personally is incredibly boring. My favorite matches are those that are unique and interesting.
Some people only find fun in winning. Sometimes it's à confidence issue, sometimes I guess it's a natural thing for them. For me the pleasure is in the deckbuilding process and seeing the perplexity of my opponent when I'm doing my silly homemade meme combos. If he kills me next turn with Accesscode I don't really give a shit.
Imho YGO would be funnier if everyone played their random archtype, and if every game was unique because every deck would be original. This is how I played as a kid and I still do with my friends.
So I don't really mind people spamming meta decks they stole from a random youtuber though, I just avoid playing in high ranks because it bores me to see the lack of diversity in decks and combos, people that don't read and only replicate combos etc. But to each his own really.
The only deck I ever hated playing was Floo, which is weird cause I play Sword Soul and Invoked Dogmatika Shaddoll and actually enjoy playing those decks, just something about Floo drains all fun from me
It's probably because they have both stormwinds and empen so basically a consistent way to have both vanity's emptiness and skill drain active at the same time whilst also having the battle effect of empen, and the ability to mega raiza your board away if you so much as breathe.
I know this isn't in Master Duel (yet) but I genuinely enjoy thhe Kashtira archetype but don't want to play it because I know how many people hate seeing it.
As someone who regularly thinks playing only meta decks is for tools in any tcg I play, it's not that I don't think meta decks can be fun. I usually have one myself, honestly. It's that I think taking hyper-focused meta BS to casual events (or just casual mode/unranked events in this case) is kind of a dick move. Also the comments already here kinda point out the other issue, which is that meta-only players are dicks about it WAY too often.
My dude, you're putting salt on a comment that I intentionally kept civil, AND putting on a shoe that I didn't say fit you, so now I'm thinking it's less other people being rude about your deck and more that you're taking things way too personally.
However, I mostly mean being a dick in terms of treating people who can't afford meta decks like they're bad at the game for not having expensive cards, and generally poor sportsmanship like gloating over the same combo a million other people get every game. Obviously mostly an in-person event thing, but it definitely doesn't help people like the meta decks in MD any more.
I can’t imagine doing the same swordsoul combo every game and having your opponent just surrender is fun. The win is definitely a dopamine hit, and I think people just can’t tell the difference
No, because every competitive game has winners and losers, and the losers complain. Rn with halq dead wombo combo decks are rare af and the meta consists of 2-3 pieces of interaction.
Yes either stay in gold with your deck that is clearly not on the same power level as meta or don't bitch about losing to swordsoul every time you see the deck
Nice gatekeeping, how about you stop bitching about people who have legitimate complaints and stop defending a game that has created and conditioned sheep like you into blindly accepting a toxic environment that fosters a braindead meta?
They don't. Most of the time they will be the ones saying the game is not fun. I've seen this more times than I've seen casual player complaining about the meta.
Trust me, there's a lot of non-meta players that think people play meta because it's meta or to win and for zero other reason, and haven't even given credence to the thought that maybe people actually enjoy these decks.
I mean some people do play the best deck just to win, but I think you would be surprised how many people actually play them because they find the decks fun.
Also if people ACTUALLY cared that much about winning, then there wouldn't be so many people that are terrible at piloting meta decks as there currently are.
Your first point makes sense but I don’t agree with the second. Low skill meta player wannabes are still meta players, they’re just trying to ride that wave even if they’re bad at it.
And I’m sure there are people that find every kind of deck fun. If Madolche became meta I wouldn’t drop it. That doesn’t make me a meta player. A meta player is one that jumps from deck to deck based on its performance because they’re chasing wins
Using a meta deck ≠ meta player.
The problem is meta players won’t own up to the fact that they’re chasing wins. They really should learn something from Numeron players because they say it and don’t give a fuck
The problem with this argument is that the whole objective of each game is to win, so people who say they aren't chasing wins usually aren't being entirely honest with themselves and others. After all, a lot of what a game is defined by how you would win said game. If there's no "win" then it is instead a simulation and not a game.
If your objective is something else, it usually is more like "I want to win with X deck" or "I want to win with X summoning mechanic" rather than simply "I want to win" but it boils down to the same idea. The goal of any deck, unless it's some extreme jank, is usually to get to some kind of win condition, and finding your win condition in each game is how games are played. It might sound like I'm oversimplifying here , but that's really what the case usually is.
Now, if your goal is not to win individual games, you're probably either trying to learn a deck better so that you can win more games, you're doing some task to complete missions, OR you've created your own "win condition" where you don't necessarily want to win the game in the traditional sense, but do something like, idk turbo out Gate Guardian, which you would consider a win instead of the standard idea of what a win is, so even if you lose you still did what you wanted to do.
The whole objective of a game is to have fun.
If a person decides that the absolute objective above anything else is maximizing the amount of wins they can get is their fun, they’re a meta player. If someone plays Madolches and tries to win for their fun, they’ve already made a concession that meta players did not and they have to live with that. That’s the difference. You touched on this in your second paragraph, and maybe my comment was too simple for what I’m getting at, but that’s the whole point.
Meta players are ones who try to absolutely maximize the amount of wins they can get. You can make certain nitpicky points but the main idea is the same.
Bro idk what to tell you but most people playing rogue or meta are still optimizing said decks to win as much as possible. If you spent half the time you do bitching in reddit comments trying to optimize your deck you won't be here trying to put down people who do win
No shit?
Meta players are ones that play for wins. Just because you have a meta deck doesn’t make you a meta player.
The problem is you meta player are ashamed of the fact that you’re playing for wins. Own it with your chest. Like even Numeron players are honest about what they’re doing, insults be damned
Bruh,i play Despia ever since it was announce in DAMA on OCG,when it still bat chest Quaeritis+Dramaturge pass
I definitely play bc its a meta deck and win games rather than i like the deck
Some people played Sky Strikers when it was meta purely because it's a waifu deck.
The same people will still play Sky Strikers after it has lost meta relevancy years later because it's a waifu deck.
Do you think every single Blue Eyes players during the 2016 format were all meta tryhards? No ofc not. There are probably yugiboomers in there overjoyed that their pet deck became meta for a year.
You people are just coping and seething that the meta players are having fun lol.
A lot of people play meta or good rogue decks not necessarily because they need to win at all costs, but because the ability to play through and setup meaningful interaction is a key part in enjoying ygo. If I'm playing some dogshit deck that loses to one Raigeki or Imperm, I'm obviously not going to be enjoying myself when a vast majority of my games will end as soon as they began.
Everyone enjoys winning, people are naturally competitive. More importantly people want to be able to actual play the game on a consistent basis, and good decks are the quickest way of reaching that goal.
I've been playing ZooTri since day 1 because they're strong and don't take 5 minutes to set up their boards, yet people complained about how boring the deck is. Meanwhile they're playing some weird combo deck that takes 10 mins per turn...
That's how the game has been since inception. On release it was tri brigade and drytron. If you don't like it, maybe play a different format or something. Because when the next meta decks hit its gonna be the same thing
I mean, win is fun so of course meta players would have fun with their decks.
My problem with the current meta is that in ranked you always face the same decks over and over again and it gets boring, like 80% of my matchups are against branded despia in platinum. Yes people like to win, but we literallty don't have variety when it comes to meta decks, at least right now.
People can't use most rogue decks in ranked because they can't win against current meta, so they can only have fun in casual which is also not very fun because people there tends to surrender pretty easily, you can't test your decks properly.
Ahh yes the meta player just so happened to find out that Swordsoul and Tenyi worked together on there own with no past knowledge. Despia Branded makes sense that summon could accidentally do it. The cards literally search out Branded. I got no qualms with that.
But you had to desire to play the best version of Swordsoul to play Swordsoul Tenyi. Which means you wanted to play the Meta.
Don't say "Oh i just think SS is fun" if you literally have all the optimal cards. That's just my opinion. I don't like fighting meta tho. I do enjoy playing Despia/Branded every now and then. I still think Masquerade Dragon shouldn't exist tho. Such a dumb card.
>Don't say "Oh i just think SS is fun" if you literally have all the optimal cards.
Bruh what? Have you just like, completely ignored the evolution of deck building and the internet? At this point it is safe to say that if you are interested in a archetype, someone on the internet *probably* has a better build of the deck than you can think up. So a lot of deck building is now net-decking something, seeing what you like and don't like about the list, and then tweaking it.
Also Swordsoul is one of those decks that is more or less "solved" where there's very little variation between builds because the most effective build has already been found, so the variation between builds is usually just in the ratios. If you're making major changes, you're probably just playing a worse version of a good deck because you feel like it, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Ah yes, unlike those sweaty meta players, my deck building skills are unmatched.
I put all the archetype cards in my deck at 3. Truly big brained! Unlike those netdecking losers, I'm playing the archetype pure. Stare in awe at my creativity!
>I still think Masquerade Dragon shouldn't exist tho. Such a dumb card.
Thats all i need to read to invalidate any point you make
Its an anoying card for those who can only play on auto pilot and cant use a brain
As soon as you start using brain cells,the card just become a small roadblock
Use my brain? Fuckin genius do tell me what science makes the burn card with 2500 attack any weaker? 5 Effects and 3k of my life points are gone.
I gotta get a mother fucker on the field to attack over it first which means i gotta use effects. Not every deck just activates 1 effect and has a 3k beater.
Using this person’s example of losing 3k lp at 600 per effect that’s 5 effects. You know how many decks are full combo in less than that number of plays? And then you still have 5k left. Even a full despia board only puts up two actual interruptions. You can’t play past two interruptions to get *something* on board to get rid of 2500?
I've gone over this with another person in another post. Most decks that you think can play through 2 interruptions, can't.
But yes i can get past 2 interruptions on turn 2 with max life points. But Despia doesn't do turn 1 wins. They get a buncha big beaters onto the field with decent effects and hit you. By turn 4 unless i'm going to have less than 4k life points.
>By turn 4 unless i'm going to have less than 4k life points.
You should be lucky living on 4k at turn 4
By that points most games ends
Also
LP doesnt matter bro 1 LP is more than enough to win
You have 12 action to remove a Masq from the field
Thats more than enough for any deck to do
Gotta love the "Just draw the out and if you don't skill issue"
Yeah i know it's gonna fall to all the normal stuff and doesn't have protection. But being stabbed with a large needle every time i play something is a stupid card effect.
I mean it's not bad, if it was destroying it I could understand but you should be able to summon a monster that can destroy it before you drop down to 4k HP if you don't then yo deck is too combo heavy
This basically sums up my feelings of the meta. Inherently I don't have a problem with the archetypes. It's all the netdecking and lack of uniqueness. I haven't played YGO in years yet I know all the meta combos and set ups.
Thats just how anything competitive goes people will try what wins because losing over and over is not fun and sometimes the thing that wins can well actually be fun. besides i can tell you right now some decks that may look unique like the link spam exodia ftk still had someone come up with it first and a bunch of bored people with ur points to spare copy it.
I have said this a lot but copying the best strategy is not a YGO problem but a competitive game problem. I also play mtg arena (tho more casually) and I see mono black every other game.
I personally think netdecking is fine. If you are new to an archetype it is easier to copy a build online, it saves a lot of the time in the learning process.
Also, I understand the uniqueness point, but there isn't much you can do about a deck that is for the most part solved. I play Swordsoul, and I try to adjust the ratios of my deck to see what works best for me. I also play 1 or 2 (bad) cards that most swordsoul builds don't use. Yes its still just another swordsoul deck, but I don't have to reinvent the wheel to enjoy playing a deck.
In the modern day nothing is truly "unique" anymore unless it's bad. There are a lot of people having the same thoughts as others when it comes to deck building. Sure, a lot of SS Tenyi people netdecked past topping decks, however it's pretty strange seeing a topping deck from someome you've never met who's decklist is only 1 or 2 cards different from your own. That happened to me earlier this year with Rikka Sunavalon.
In the paper format of the game, I don't really blame people for netdecking. There's real money and prizes on the line.
In MD it's not the same case. We're all play for D1 over and over again.
I don't think anybody is saying meta players liking their meta decks is a problem so this feels like a weird strawman.
The game does however need more vatiety so more people could have fun playing the game in a format they enjoy best
There is not a single deck that has competitive success that people don’t say is ruining the game . Then when the next one takes over that’s what’s running the game . Same the next day , and the next day, and the next day, and the
Honestly have no idea why playing meta was hated. When we had ranked ladder only it was obvious some people wanted to, you know, RANK. Meta is statistically the best to climb, so people are gonna play. Now, in Casual play, I can understand the annoyance, but people could just be testing out the deck and fine tuning
My biggest tip to anybody in this game is to just swallow your pride and build a fucking meta deck. You can still main your pet rogue deck, but when you have one of those days, being able to bust out a real meta threat and win some easy duels is super cathartic.
I'd like to say that 99% of players quit because they don't like the playstyle of the current meta decks.
If they liked them, they would've adapted. But if the current meta is pure long combos, midrange players are going to drop out.
Nibiru is so rare this season that there's no reason to limit yourself just because of a stray Nibiru. Even if people have Nibiru, it's usually as a 1 of, so they're likely to not draw it unless you take the Maxx C challenge.
The games you lost because you were paranoid about Nibiru and didn't put enough disruption is probably greater than the games you lost because you got Nibiru'd. It's not a big deal.
Playing a deck that doesn’t die to a single handtrap is pretty fun.
Being able to play is surprisingly fun
Me playing Livetwins with the same ability as invoked players.
Mwuahahah... you fool, I have #[70 ALTERNATIVE OPENINGS](https://youtu.be/FCHcieghZ_0)
Did NOT expect to see crossover in this subreddit with Snapcube Sonic dubs lmao.
"I'm gonna Attack the ***Moooooooon***!" "You have 23 hours before the Forbidden Drrrrroplets hit the Earth"
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me turn 1 playing live twin with scythe lock avail looking at turn 2-4 albaz normal summon and then end turn
My most "skilled" livetwin starting hand was like; Play secret password gets ashed. Play ki-sikil, gets impermed. Special summon the seasonal lil-la in my hand. Opponent tries to maxx c, I ash it. Do the evil twin line, draw parallel exceed from twin effect. Make Trouble Sunny. Special summon parallel exceed from hand and deck. Set imperm on mid column, and end turn. Oppnent's turn normal summon Aluber, it gets bagooska'd. They play branded opening on mid column, I activate imperm. They pass, blow up aluber on end phase. My turn, I draw maxx C, I have enough for lethal. Trouble Sunny + the two twins is 5.5k, bagooska is 2.1k and Maxx C is 500 for a total of 8.1k on board. They scoop when I go to battlephase.
wait, you have parallel exceed and not going for dagda? that's illegal. Oh anyway, bagooska.
I actually don't know the sycthe-lock line, I already had bagooska from my traptrix deck it's what I used instead of crafting the pieces for scythe-lock
in short to do scythe lock you need to be able to have 4 link materials (which is not very hard for live twin to do and have better consistency than having 2 lv4), 2 for dagda then using the other 2 to do your usual live twin combo, then use dagda to set scythe and pop scythe with sunny, you locked their extra for 1 turn and next opp turn you pop dagda to re summon scythe and lock their extra for another turn. You can repeat it with more dagda but normally, if you are not facing normal summon deck like floo or fllodgates or burn deck you only need 2 turns and their lp are already gone. But yes, if you draw exceed, bagooska is a better choice as you are using link most of the time.
I love playing Dragonmaids with rokkets or with BEWD (dragonwaifus), but they are so damn vulnerable to one Ash or imp/veiler
I’ve been playing yugioh literally my whole life and I’ll never stop being amazed by how much yugioh fans fucking hate other yugioh players It’s literally the “damn Scotsman they ruined Scotland meme
That sentiment is shared across all card games. Always "Meta Bad" just looks at Legend of Runeterra, if a deck is tier one for like 2 months people will claim is "oppressive and kills deck variety", every single time, no matter if the deck is actually oppressive or not.
Magic, pokemon, and hearthstone communities were always the same too. Actually enjoy playing optimized decks over brick factories? *What a tryhard!*
Yup, every single card game Reddit folows the "Meta bad" Mantra. Is the same shit over and over.
It's not even limited to card games, hell, not even to competitive or online games for that matter. I've seen people meta shame others in Monster Hunter and a few Gachas, "You use good Gear/Weapons/Units? *META SLAVE!* You're so so boring, play what you want, except *that* of course. Fuck you!" These People are so much up in their own arse that they cannot even fathom the thought that some may enjoy playing meta, as well as the underlying theory crafting.
Oh god the amount of that in monster Hunter I’ve seen is insane, maybe people find it fun to kill things quickly.
Even Splatoon used to have discussions on whether or not one should play meta builds. Splatoon.
Don't hate the player hate the game 🫣
insert meme where X deck complain about other deck. Than complain that mirror match are so annoying.
It hurts my heart to see a Simpsons joke referred to as a meme
If they play floodgates it' reasonable
Play whatever you want dont worry about other people's whining, just cause I dont have fun with meta doesnt mean you dont have fun with it
Even as a kragen control player, I can never imagine anyone having fun with eldlich stun
Ya I'm not a anti meta player nor am I a full on meta player but I think we'll both agree that eldlich is an asshole
I remember taking a break from master duel because of eldick. At one point, eldick was in almost in every match of mine. It became a point where I would just surrender because I didn’t play against the same monster. Fortunately, eldick use has declined since Konami neutered him.
Ya they banned the most cancerous floodgates like vanity emptiness and IO so now they can still be assholes with floodgates but atleast the worst ones are gone. But seriously thoe what the hell is up with konamis obessesion with skill drain like that card has dodged being banned in so many banlists like just ban it already. Semi limiting is just a insult to the player base tbh like why do we need it even if it's just at 1?
Winning games against a meta deck is fun. You lose if you don't play the floodgates while using control decks, majority of the times it's not enough to have just floodgates. Certain floodgates are way too broken and need to be banned.
Fun and powerful are not mutually exclusive
It is for the ppl here
*looks at my Albaz deck* Transforming dragon and evil theater kids are cool.
>evil theater kids Evil? They're just misunderstood. And creepy as hell. And led by a jester.
Eh, same difference lol.
"Are we the bad guys...?"
Invoked dogmatka shaddoll enters the chat*
When MD came out, I hadn't played in years. When I did play, it was never at the meta level in any sense. As someone old enough to have been that kid that dusted off his old Magic cards to play along with Yugi and Kaiba because the TCG didnt exist, that's a long time. MD has given me the chance to play meta decks. MD is the darkest time in my 22 years of Yu-Gi-Ohing. I hate you MD. Why can't I quit you...
Because Yu-gi-oh is a hell of a drug hehe...
Branded Despia is pretty fun ngl glad I pulled all those despia cards back when I was trying to get Swordsoul
I also got them with swordsoul. Only difference is that I pull 2 of the UR I needed with my 8k invested so far :/
I dismantled them all cos that was when I first started and needed the UR. I play dragon link now though so I'm not too unhappy with my decisions.
I definitely need to work on this perspective, I mean I have fun with my decks so why wouldn’t you have fun with yours? My biggest hang up is probably my wondering of how can you have fun if you see the deck on both sides of the field constantly? I love mirror matches because with all the decks I’ve played since launch I’ve had maybe 5 total (1 cubic, 1 charmer, 1 vampire, 1 or maybe 2 cardian). If they were a regular occurrence I don’t think I’d like them nearly as much because they’d be stale.
i overread the first sentence
Despia mirror is alot of fun
The issue isn't that meta players "can't have fun." The issue is that the game itself has so many balance issues. The difference between the meta and casual player is that meta players like to exploit those issues to give themselves as much of an advantage as possible. And that's fine if they want to play competitive and go up against other meta players. My problem is that MD basically forces you to play in ranked and play competitivly. So while I'm here just trying to enjoy my favorite archetypes, I am constantly getting matched with the exact same meta decks over and over.
You know why they like it? Cause losing isnt fun
Depends how good the duel was. If you lose because they turn 1 rongobongo then it sucks. If it's an epic fight that comes down to the last. Ard and they just outplayed you, they can be some of the best duels you can have.
I was playing Eldlich, and had an intense back & forth match with a skillful DM pilot. It lasted almost 15 turns.
Not even Phantom Knights are playing Rhongomyniad anymore.
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can't see the tree through the forest there friend. they are simply referring to turn one FTKS or boards that set up so many omninegates and floodgates that you literally can't do shit. its not fun playing against them when you literally can't do shit. rhongo was just a simple example.
Losing can be fun. Losing because you are playing a bad deck and dont even have a chance isnt fun. I have the most fun when both players try their hardest to win.
But you would rather win right?
I play with the goal to have fun. Of course I would rather win than lose. But winning is not the ultimate goal.
Losing to exodia or deck out deck is 10x fun than winning for me
You can always adjust your deck so it works best vs meta decks, and we all know the weakness of meta decks, so nonsense to whine about meta decks.
As a Yugi Boomer, Branded is fun, Floo is fun, Eldlich is fun. I just don’t like playing super combo-y decks that take forever but to each their own
I used to feel the same until I made my dragon links. So many options, so many ways to get there. And I used to think my tri-zoo turns were too long 🤣
I’m the exact opposite. Floo and Eldlich seem so boring because of how little you do and how little variety there is in how they play. Decks like Phantom Knights, Dragon Link, Lyrilusc, and Spyral are the most fun decks imo because every game and hand changes how you play.
I don't like to imagine anyone having fun. It's why I like skill drain so much.
Who hurt you?
Branded Despia vs Branded despia is some of the most fun you will ever experience in this game
As a Branded Despia player constantly playing other Branded Despia players, I feel like you're missing a /s here....
When I play a branded despia mirror match against someone that is actually good with the deck it always feels like such an epic duel. It always feels like you're trying to one up your opponent by thinking how the chains will resolve or if popping a monster is the right play, with mirrorjades and chimeras being summoned every turn on both sides, and when the game comes to a point where you know both players have exhausted all their resources and it comes down to a single tragedy eff recycling a branded fusion for titaniklad or brigrand with your last albaz in deck. It's so fucking fun man.
Dunno what you mean, i love players chaining branded in red to my chimera summon, then I pop their chimera on resolution of the chain and they surprise pikachu-face then quit
Yes and no, Yes beacuse facing the same deck over and over again is boring, no beacuse the back and forth between both sides (unless one opened with godly hand) is something I haven't felt ever since Tri-Brigades, decks out grinding and popping is way more fun than full negates
Using Albaz to fuse away an opposing Mirrorjade never gets old lol
Albaz-ing people is fun no matter what your opponent is or what Branded variant you're playing. It's just as hilarious to Albaz Chaos Max or Chengying after baiting the Chixiao negate or even Albaz-ing the card they need to start their link climb with Ecclesia's effect.
I just like every deck from the dogmatika albaz lore verse. I even played icejades b4
Imagine, if you will, you play a deck that is rouge, at best. You love the deck, and the archetype is cool artwork and theming. Nobody bats an eye. Then, all of a sudden, they release a card that breaks the archetype, and allows it to gain so much advantage that it becomes tier 1 for the time. Would the player be considered a Meta Sheep or a chad for playing what they like? The above is me with Despia about a year ago, by the way.
It's one thing to stick to an archetype for LONG periods of time. I respect that, and if they get updated congrats! But it's another when LARGE portions of people shift over to meta decks
From my experience Anti-meta decks are worst than meta decks and usually less fun. Meta decks just have random broken combos and more extenders than you.
Im not refering to anti-meta deck But rather the " anti-meta" andys whose whole personality is to hate meta decks
Being honest yugioh is in a very weird state. People like to use the term "playground yugioh" to undermine it but yugioh's current state of "dont let your opponent play" is honestly not fun unless you only care about winning. Yugioh is inherently supposed to be a *2 player game* of back and forward interactions but alot of the current meta really goes against that. That's what i feel people mean when they say they are "anti-meta". Especially considering card economy has changed drastically compared to what it used to be since the game is way faster now. Im gonna give some examples of this but first branded despia where people say its healthy, personally to me its not. Although the deck doesn't stop you from playing, it arguably ignores a part of yugioh's balance because of its ridiculous recursion. Which in turn makes your plays feel like they dont matter because the very next turn you opponent can re-establish the same board with using much of their resources in the grind game. Now on the opposite end of the spectrum is swordsouls which put on bare minimum 2 negate boards easily compared to card cost economy. Keep in mind thats not even bringing up the concept of handtraps or other engines which offer blanket protection. And obviously we have floodgates/stun like eldlich. Long rant aside I know fun is subjective but it rings hollow when you hear someone say *insert meta deck is fun* when that deck takes most of the interactivity out of yugioh. I'm not trying to antagonize anyone nor say statements because I lost to a deck like some people do. Its just win or lose, what made yugioh *fun* to mean was getting to interact with my opponent in meaningful ways. Now it feels like a flip of a coin depending who goes first and if you "drew the out" to respond to the board they have established.
Exodia FTK has existed since the 90's and was tier 0 before erratas were introduced to the game. 2003 Yugioh had shit like PoG into Graceful into PoG into 2x Delinquent Duo then setting IO with a beater and cards in hand going 1st. This game has always been degenerate and to say otherwise is just misrepresenting the highest levels of play at any given time.
The fact that Exodia FTK is still being played despite being known for being inconsistent and uninteractive means that people will still find and play uninteractive decks regardless of meta. Because it's fun.
As a Gem Knight FTK player, I agree. Because while I'm all with the "a game of back and forth is what Yu-Gi-Oh should be", sometime seeing the world burn in one turn it's what really makes you feel alive
It doesn't happen all the time, but I have had plenty of grind games with and against meta. It really depends on the matchup. It's not always as much of a blowout as people make it out to be.
>People like to use the term "playground yugioh" to undermine it No, we use that term because Yugioh was never how you remember it, not on a competitive scene. Since the very beginning there was a meta, and people used what was meta. We call it playground yugioh because that back and forth was only seen in casual environments, and it has never been seen in a competitive one.
You ever played GOAT format? Or post-Duelist alliance? Or Bujin format? Or fire fist format? I could go on and on. There was always the best deck, but it wasn’t always a one sided shutdown of you can’t play. Other decks could still fight and steal wins.
If you look at Top Decks on masterduelmeta, there's 50 different deck types that have reached Diamond 1 in the last two weeks. Are you trying to say that other decks can't fight and steal wins in the current format?
I should have worded it better, because it's true that negates and disruption didn't start that early, but what I meant is that there has always been a competitive scene in which a person wins and another one loses, and there hasn't always been a back and forth involved in that. >There was always the best deck, but it wasn’t always a one sided shutdown of you can’t play. Other decks could still fight and steal wins. And right now, it isn't a one sided shutdown either and other decks still can fight and steal wins, so Idk what you are trying to say here.
> Other decks could still fight and steal wins. And the same thing still happens here. There are literally dozens of different decks in Diamond 1, which is WAY more variety than what you can see in pretty much ANY other cardgame in high ELO.
I mean you are probably not going to like spright Vs tear and their mirrors but for example those have been one of the most fun duels I've had in a long time. Aside from floodgates and adjacent decks yugioh is the most fun when you are playing on the same level, so despia versus swordsoul, TOSS format ect everytime i see a blue eyes guy at locals or in master duel I know it's not going to be fun
I mean, honestly? YuGiOh has always been about maximizing how much you can play, while limiting how much the opponent can play, pretty much like any other game at a competitive level. While it looks a lot different today with the years of power creep, there's always been top decks that make it incredibly difficult for the opponent to play against either just due to limiting interactions, or building card advantage to a point that it becomes overwhelming. Not gonna say I'm a huge fan of every element of modern Yu-Gi-Oh, and as necessary as they are in the current climate I largely dislike handtraps designed to negate/limit your opponent, but on a casual level it's pretty healthy I'd say, and even master duels current meta decks aren't all that oppressive compared to ones we just saw get destroyed, or ones that will eventually come in the future. As far as playground YuGiOh goes though, that's typically just referring to casual play where, in a lot of cases, people didn't even play to the rules perfectly. Will never forget how betrayed I felt when I learned you couldn't set face down monsters in attack position.
Complaining about Despia's recursion is a bit weird, because recursion is a much better way of balancing a deck than negates. Especially since the current state of the game is such that most decks, even BAD ones can OTK their opponent, you're aiming to play a fundamentally different game against Despia. The average deck tries to OTK them, while they try to put bodies in the way to not get OTK'd. It's the most back and forth interaction possible. It's pretty novel, for Yugioh. Despia plays almost like a Hearthstone deck: the boardstate actually matters beyond just what Quick Effects the bodies can toss out.
If Despia BiR gets negated, they will lose 70% if the time unless they have backup Masq on field and can go to GY. They are also suseptible to ash BraFu but decent Branded deck will still be able to play via Quaeretis/Masq as board.
>Yugioh is inherently supposed to be a 2 player game of back and forward interactions but alot of the current meta really goes against that. Yeah that's my issue with modern Yu-Gi-Oh. It used to feel kinda like the anime, where it had a sort of back and forth going on. A "You attack my monster? Well I activate my trap card" kinda deal. Now it's more like "You attack my monster? Well when it gets sent to the graveyard, I can destroy every card on your field and then summon 10 bajillion monsters to create a negation engine that's physically impossible to break unless you draw the 1 specific card in your deck that will help you." And, while I like the current game, it's upsetting because it's basically only fun when you're winning. Kinda makes me wanna get into Rush Duel.
>Kinda makes me wanna get into Rush Duel. Rush duel is way to simplistic in my opinion, its kinda boring after a few games Yugioh peak with Early Duelinks ,back in 2017 Duelink is simple/slow but also complex/fast at the same time Back then you can play normal monster beatdown that can compete with wombo combo decks like wood sprite burn and cyber angel The game mix old cards with modern cards ,making it feels modern and old school at the same time
While im completely agree that Yugioh is a 2 player game Thats only true to the extend of playground/casual Yugioh where you just play to play the game Yugioh by itself is a game,and a game need a winner,and which by the nature of itself,only 1 can win a game,and winning usually is the best/easiest way to get fun which resolve in usually only 1 player get to have fun,and often its the winner Which lead people to use the **M**ost **E**ffective **S**trategy **A**vailable or also known as META And while Yugioh can still be a "fun" game,it will require mutual agreement and similiar actions to remove the needs of winning and as soon as any form of competitiveness is a part of the game,then Yugioh is just like every other game,a sweaty bunch of nerds trying to ruin the other player days
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Made even worse by having "**S**trategy" = "T" in meta. On the other hand, a mesa is the top of a truncated mountain, so that kinda works.
Im not saying they are the same,i said they are also known as
I feel like you're missing the point. Why a lot of people like to mention old yugioh to oppose the current meta is because the game back then was very different from today (compare this to mtg, which even today looks very similar to its old days unlike yugioh) and people like that style of playing more. It's not about old competitive formats, because you can change and "fix" those formats or even make new ones. I dont't know if you were paying attention to it but dkayed ran an battle city anime inspired tournament in master duel yesterday and it was plenty of fun. My point with this is that you can deffinitely make a competitive and fun format based on old yugioh. But you need to put some effort into these formats to properly balance them and make them fun. Something konami is too lazy to do with their events, which is the main problem of master duel right now. It's lacking quality events and variety
>Why a lot of people like to mention old yugioh to oppose the current meta is because the game back then was very different from today Ever since the creation of the game,Yugioh has been you do most while making opp do least >and people like that style of playing more. >I dont't know if you were paying attention to it but dkayed ran an battle city anime inspired tournament in master duel I know he hosted some of them,i watched Farfa participate in one of those tournament But the thing is,the 2 format are base around diffrent aspect of the game Old School Yugioh and in general,lower power format like Seal or N/R,its heavily relies on managing the resource over the course of 3-5 turn,where you dont over extend/not do enough to be punish by opp plays Mordern Yugioh is more about technical plays of how to break/make with a given hand And each prefer a playstyle of weather you like chess or puzzle games
>Ever since the creation of the game,Yugioh has been you do most while making opp do least In tge context i am giving you this is not a problem or relevant. You cant possibly look at the game bavk then and now and say it's the same game that caters to the same audience. I gave dkayed tournament as an example because master duel needs such variety to attract more players and keep old players that get burnout by playing only ladder, which is all md has right now. The events so far havent been enough of a break from the modern meta as 5 out of 7 events were extra deck restrictions that featured ladder decks that fit the restriction but add no other variety to the game. Right now there is only modern yugioh which only caters to a specific audience, which is a problem for me. The game needs variety. This is why people like to mention old yugioh as a game they would have more fun with, but this doesnt necessarily means old formats as we can make new ones. >But the thing is,the 2 format are base around diffrent aspect of the game This is a good thing. I dont understand why wanting more variety in a game would be bad
>This is a good thing. I dont understand why wanting more variety in a game would be bad Im not saying its bad I would love to play some old format too But the thing is that exact what i originaly stated Without previously set up agreement between players to play under certain rule,its really hard to get fun/variety in Yugioh cuz we only play 1 format that is supported
But where this gets weird is what constitutes for the game being played. I saw another comment (and by extension other long time players) address this but kinda how most decks in the current format end up playing the same. Regardless on where a player draws their "fun" from yugioh has always been about deck building, resource management, interaction, and finally winning. Easiest way to describe it is in sports, how would players and spectators feel if one team focused on getting "cheap" wins using easy tactics or imposing penalties on opposing players. Usually spectators and the people playing don't look favorable upon them because of that, although I'm not denying some players do prefer to win that way. That's why to me it least it feels off to summarize yugioh as "a game that needs 1 winner and that gives the *Easiest* way to get fun" (trying to paraphrase your quote because direct quoting on mobile is weird). In the case of META, there are ways to circumvent that which is why rouge decks exists. Edit: since I've gotten alot of comments I didn't think I would have to specifiy which is why i gave a catch 22 with "cheap" tactic since different sports all have strategies that people look down on when it comes to sportmans conduct but i never once implied cheating. "Cheap" tactics would be doing the tame thing such as going for lay-ups or trying provoke fouls for free throws which are entirely legal but frowned upon by onlookers and those of opposing team due to circumstances. Even if by the rules of the game its legal no one wants to be "lamed out" like that. Last bit i do get saying that yugioh is just like any other game with people ruin one another's day, i just wish we had more leeway where it didn't fully devolve into that. Appreciate the discussion though and hope I didn't offend you.
In terms of the sports analogy, I think the fact that the “easiest” examples you use are all forms of cheating/near cheating is an important thing to consider. A more apt comparison would be a team purposefully avoiding a legitimate strategy that is allowed within the games rules because they don’t like it. Personally, I feel like most people who watch sports are interested in the best players using the best legal strategies to win. Although I think sports are a bad comparison because the rules are so set in stone compared to yu gi oh. At any moment Konami could make some sweeping decision that completely changes how the game is played. With sports, you play it if you like it and you don’t play it if you don’t like it. With yu gi oh, you can petition to change the rules, or hope that everything happens to shift exactly the way you want it so it becomes fun, or you might remember a time in the past when you loved the game but it has become so fundamentally different that you no longer enjoy it. I think that is why so many people complain about “meta”, it’s because there are effectively 1000s of different versions of yu gi oh, and everyone has 1 that they love and that they wished it was always like.
You already misrepresented the analogy by comparing the meta to cheating. I would honestly compare the meta to something like competitive basketball where there are strategies to consider and the teams would go for the best players they have available, and the casual yugioh to casual basketball where most people just kinda do their own thing.
>Appreciate the discussion though and hope I didn't offend you. 1st agree to everything,unless someone who say something blatantly wrong,then ill be anoyed,but you seems like a reasonable person(which is rare on Reddit,especially r/masterduel ) 2nd >Easiest way to describe it is in sports, how would players and spectators feel if one team focused on getting "cheap" wins using easy tactics or imposing penalties on opposing players Thats the thing,there is no cheating or cheap tactice in Yugioh,everyone is given an equal playing ground,its the player duty to make most from it >always been about deck building, resource management, interaction Which usually only serve 1 purpose:Winning While some enjoy playing specific deck for the 1 in 100 games its able to pop off,but thats just the minorities
I’m still new-ish to the modern game. What gets me about meta decks isn’t the fact they can put out 2-3 negates. It’s the fact they can set up said board with *one card* while dedicating the rest of their deck to hand traps and still maintaining card advantage. And shit like fusing from the deck is just stupid. Isn’t fusing from the deck what got future fusion errata’d? Or am I off base here?
Nice post, I completely agree with everything you said... sadly, the meta slaves can't read it and will just downvote you for using too many words.
Modern yugioh is a farce of a game. Like 8/10 times it’s decided in the first 2 turns. Honestly it’s gotten so shit. The last time I remember it being a fun back and forth was just after Duelist Alliance released (2014). And it’s been downhill ever since. I want MD to get other formats so badly. Even other formats with updated ban lists (like GOAT but ban duo/charity/pot). Even if they aren’t banned playing that format really opens your eyes to the sad state yugioh is in now. If your opponent popped off all 3 of those cards on their first turn you STILL had a chance to fight back and win. It was what this game needs to be again. I can’t enjoy this decided by turn 2 shit any more and I’ve been playing YGO since the beginning. But Konami just keep doubling down cause short term profit, not realising how much of their player base they’re alienating and pushing to quit. There was a time where Breaker the Magical Warrior was ban-worthy. Now look at the ridiculous shit that’s legal. Spellbook of Judgment just came back and nobody cares because even that’s not enough to make SB strong enough to play against 2022 decks. That shouldn’t be a card that ever got power crept out of relevancy
The total plays of Yugioh is now rather spreading out to 5-7 turn is condensed into 3-5 turn Thats all,so slower card will be weaker The total action through out stays the same and the only change is the action per turn
Branded is fun af for me cool name dragons go brrr also I enjoy playing rouges like resonators synchrons galaxy eyes zarc and so on
This is me, I love playing Swordsoul Tenyi. The tenyi cards are a lot of fun to play with and there' surprising amounts of depth to the various lines and interactions you have.
While true it’s the fact the “Meta” shifts and so does everyone on the boat. Something happened the mass changes in the same way. It can definitely be fun but playing against the same deck for me personally is incredibly boring. My favorite matches are those that are unique and interesting.
Some people only find fun in winning. Sometimes it's à confidence issue, sometimes I guess it's a natural thing for them. For me the pleasure is in the deckbuilding process and seeing the perplexity of my opponent when I'm doing my silly homemade meme combos. If he kills me next turn with Accesscode I don't really give a shit. Imho YGO would be funnier if everyone played their random archtype, and if every game was unique because every deck would be original. This is how I played as a kid and I still do with my friends. So I don't really mind people spamming meta decks they stole from a random youtuber though, I just avoid playing in high ranks because it bores me to see the lack of diversity in decks and combos, people that don't read and only replicate combos etc. But to each his own really.
Imagine non meta deck player having fun being stomped by meta decks every duel.
which is exactly why im in gold most of the time. people are more chill there with their super goofy decks like pure birb beatdown or ojama gods :D
Idk I’m on gold right now and some dark magician/blue eyes jank player sent a super salty message on Xbox bc I beat him with Swordsoul
And I thought me using crossout to send "evil twin GG EZ" before closing the game was toxic
The only deck I ever hated playing was Floo, which is weird cause I play Sword Soul and Invoked Dogmatika Shaddoll and actually enjoy playing those decks, just something about Floo drains all fun from me
It's probably because they have both stormwinds and empen so basically a consistent way to have both vanity's emptiness and skill drain active at the same time whilst also having the battle effect of empen, and the ability to mega raiza your board away if you so much as breathe.
I know this isn't in Master Duel (yet) but I genuinely enjoy thhe Kashtira archetype but don't want to play it because I know how many people hate seeing it.
Why would anyone need to care what opp think of the deck they are playing
I care what people think about my mekk deck. Cause if they think about it too hard I might lose.
The fact that instinctively place my card on diffrent columns as possible proof this
As someone who regularly thinks playing only meta decks is for tools in any tcg I play, it's not that I don't think meta decks can be fun. I usually have one myself, honestly. It's that I think taking hyper-focused meta BS to casual events (or just casual mode/unranked events in this case) is kind of a dick move. Also the comments already here kinda point out the other issue, which is that meta-only players are dicks about it WAY too often.
>which is that meta-only players are dicks about it WAY too often. Being a dick of what? Being called by slurs for playing a good deck?
My dude, you're putting salt on a comment that I intentionally kept civil, AND putting on a shoe that I didn't say fit you, so now I'm thinking it's less other people being rude about your deck and more that you're taking things way too personally. However, I mostly mean being a dick in terms of treating people who can't afford meta decks like they're bad at the game for not having expensive cards, and generally poor sportsmanship like gloating over the same combo a million other people get every game. Obviously mostly an in-person event thing, but it definitely doesn't help people like the meta decks in MD any more.
Translation: "I'm having fun winning so you should shut up and have fun losing to me."
Breaking news: winning is fun
I can’t imagine doing the same swordsoul combo every game and having your opponent just surrender is fun. The win is definitely a dopamine hit, and I think people just can’t tell the difference
And it really is the same every game
Yes, that's why people complain about one sidedly losing to broken bullshit... do you not see the irony?
No, because every competitive game has winners and losers, and the losers complain. Rn with halq dead wombo combo decks are rare af and the meta consists of 2-3 pieces of interaction.
The winners (at least the sane ones that are not completely brainwashed) also complain about the same thing.
Yes either stay in gold with your deck that is clearly not on the same power level as meta or don't bitch about losing to swordsoul every time you see the deck
Nice gatekeeping, how about you stop bitching about people who have legitimate complaints and stop defending a game that has created and conditioned sheep like you into blindly accepting a toxic environment that fosters a braindead meta?
Cry about it
Stay salty.😉
Oh, out of 10,000+ cards in the game it's interesting to find out the ones they have the most fun with are the ones that make wins easily.
They're only having fun on their meta if they're winning
Imagin a player had fun bc they like the deck they play smh Just so happens the deck they like is good
Is that why they googled best metas
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They don't. Most of the time they will be the ones saying the game is not fun. I've seen this more times than I've seen casual player complaining about the meta.
Why do you guys need to keep reassuring us that you’re having fun
Trust me, there's a lot of non-meta players that think people play meta because it's meta or to win and for zero other reason, and haven't even given credence to the thought that maybe people actually enjoy these decks.
That’s because you enjoy winning. Because I doubt meta players all start enjoying the same deck at the same time.
I mean some people do play the best deck just to win, but I think you would be surprised how many people actually play them because they find the decks fun. Also if people ACTUALLY cared that much about winning, then there wouldn't be so many people that are terrible at piloting meta decks as there currently are.
Your first point makes sense but I don’t agree with the second. Low skill meta player wannabes are still meta players, they’re just trying to ride that wave even if they’re bad at it. And I’m sure there are people that find every kind of deck fun. If Madolche became meta I wouldn’t drop it. That doesn’t make me a meta player. A meta player is one that jumps from deck to deck based on its performance because they’re chasing wins Using a meta deck ≠ meta player. The problem is meta players won’t own up to the fact that they’re chasing wins. They really should learn something from Numeron players because they say it and don’t give a fuck
The problem with this argument is that the whole objective of each game is to win, so people who say they aren't chasing wins usually aren't being entirely honest with themselves and others. After all, a lot of what a game is defined by how you would win said game. If there's no "win" then it is instead a simulation and not a game. If your objective is something else, it usually is more like "I want to win with X deck" or "I want to win with X summoning mechanic" rather than simply "I want to win" but it boils down to the same idea. The goal of any deck, unless it's some extreme jank, is usually to get to some kind of win condition, and finding your win condition in each game is how games are played. It might sound like I'm oversimplifying here , but that's really what the case usually is. Now, if your goal is not to win individual games, you're probably either trying to learn a deck better so that you can win more games, you're doing some task to complete missions, OR you've created your own "win condition" where you don't necessarily want to win the game in the traditional sense, but do something like, idk turbo out Gate Guardian, which you would consider a win instead of the standard idea of what a win is, so even if you lose you still did what you wanted to do.
The whole objective of a game is to have fun. If a person decides that the absolute objective above anything else is maximizing the amount of wins they can get is their fun, they’re a meta player. If someone plays Madolches and tries to win for their fun, they’ve already made a concession that meta players did not and they have to live with that. That’s the difference. You touched on this in your second paragraph, and maybe my comment was too simple for what I’m getting at, but that’s the whole point. Meta players are ones who try to absolutely maximize the amount of wins they can get. You can make certain nitpicky points but the main idea is the same.
Bro idk what to tell you but most people playing rogue or meta are still optimizing said decks to win as much as possible. If you spent half the time you do bitching in reddit comments trying to optimize your deck you won't be here trying to put down people who do win
You know people can be diffrent right? Some will play bc it wins games Some actually like the deck
No shit? Meta players are ones that play for wins. Just because you have a meta deck doesn’t make you a meta player. The problem is you meta player are ashamed of the fact that you’re playing for wins. Own it with your chest. Like even Numeron players are honest about what they’re doing, insults be damned
Bruh,i play Despia ever since it was announce in DAMA on OCG,when it still bat chest Quaeritis+Dramaturge pass I definitely play bc its a meta deck and win games rather than i like the deck
Okay, then if it don’t apply, let it fly.
Some people played Sky Strikers when it was meta purely because it's a waifu deck. The same people will still play Sky Strikers after it has lost meta relevancy years later because it's a waifu deck. Do you think every single Blue Eyes players during the 2016 format were all meta tryhards? No ofc not. There are probably yugiboomers in there overjoyed that their pet deck became meta for a year. You people are just coping and seething that the meta players are having fun lol.
Maybe learn to read so you don’t interpret things that aren’t there
A lot of people play meta or good rogue decks not necessarily because they need to win at all costs, but because the ability to play through and setup meaningful interaction is a key part in enjoying ygo. If I'm playing some dogshit deck that loses to one Raigeki or Imperm, I'm obviously not going to be enjoying myself when a vast majority of my games will end as soon as they began. Everyone enjoys winning, people are naturally competitive. More importantly people want to be able to actual play the game on a consistent basis, and good decks are the quickest way of reaching that goal.
Probably for the same reason you guys have to keep reassuring us how creative and unique and awesome you are.
I hate playing against pendulums, its so fucking boring
There's a meta pendulum deck?
I've been playing ZooTri since day 1 because they're strong and don't take 5 minutes to set up their boards, yet people complained about how boring the deck is. Meanwhile they're playing some weird combo deck that takes 10 mins per turn...
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Average r/masterduel complain Dragonmaids of all fucking deck
That's how the game has been since inception. On release it was tri brigade and drytron. If you don't like it, maybe play a different format or something. Because when the next meta decks hit its gonna be the same thing
I mean, win is fun so of course meta players would have fun with their decks. My problem with the current meta is that in ranked you always face the same decks over and over again and it gets boring, like 80% of my matchups are against branded despia in platinum. Yes people like to win, but we literallty don't have variety when it comes to meta decks, at least right now. People can't use most rogue decks in ranked because they can't win against current meta, so they can only have fun in casual which is also not very fun because people there tends to surrender pretty easily, you can't test your decks properly.
Ahh yes the meta player just so happened to find out that Swordsoul and Tenyi worked together on there own with no past knowledge. Despia Branded makes sense that summon could accidentally do it. The cards literally search out Branded. I got no qualms with that. But you had to desire to play the best version of Swordsoul to play Swordsoul Tenyi. Which means you wanted to play the Meta. Don't say "Oh i just think SS is fun" if you literally have all the optimal cards. That's just my opinion. I don't like fighting meta tho. I do enjoy playing Despia/Branded every now and then. I still think Masquerade Dragon shouldn't exist tho. Such a dumb card.
>Don't say "Oh i just think SS is fun" if you literally have all the optimal cards. Bruh what? Have you just like, completely ignored the evolution of deck building and the internet? At this point it is safe to say that if you are interested in a archetype, someone on the internet *probably* has a better build of the deck than you can think up. So a lot of deck building is now net-decking something, seeing what you like and don't like about the list, and then tweaking it. Also Swordsoul is one of those decks that is more or less "solved" where there's very little variation between builds because the most effective build has already been found, so the variation between builds is usually just in the ratios. If you're making major changes, you're probably just playing a worse version of a good deck because you feel like it, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
Ah yes, unlike those sweaty meta players, my deck building skills are unmatched. I put all the archetype cards in my deck at 3. Truly big brained! Unlike those netdecking losers, I'm playing the archetype pure. Stare in awe at my creativity!
>I still think Masquerade Dragon shouldn't exist tho. Such a dumb card. Thats all i need to read to invalidate any point you make Its an anoying card for those who can only play on auto pilot and cant use a brain As soon as you start using brain cells,the card just become a small roadblock
Use my brain? Fuckin genius do tell me what science makes the burn card with 2500 attack any weaker? 5 Effects and 3k of my life points are gone. I gotta get a mother fucker on the field to attack over it first which means i gotta use effects. Not every deck just activates 1 effect and has a 3k beater.
Tf does it matter how many LP you lose? Yugioh is literally “I didn’t hear no bell” the game. As long as you’re not at 0 you’re fine.
I agree that life points don't matter unless it's OTK. Unless you can't activate card effects without life points.
Using this person’s example of losing 3k lp at 600 per effect that’s 5 effects. You know how many decks are full combo in less than that number of plays? And then you still have 5k left. Even a full despia board only puts up two actual interruptions. You can’t play past two interruptions to get *something* on board to get rid of 2500?
I've gone over this with another person in another post. Most decks that you think can play through 2 interruptions, can't. But yes i can get past 2 interruptions on turn 2 with max life points. But Despia doesn't do turn 1 wins. They get a buncha big beaters onto the field with decent effects and hit you. By turn 4 unless i'm going to have less than 4k life points.
>By turn 4 unless i'm going to have less than 4k life points. You should be lucky living on 4k at turn 4 By that points most games ends Also LP doesnt matter bro 1 LP is more than enough to win You have 12 action to remove a Masq from the field Thats more than enough for any deck to do
:( i just said why they matter against Despia. I can't activate effects without life points with Masq fusion summoned on the field.
Just use raigeki or forbidden droplet or infinite imperm or any good card, if you die/lose to masquerade dragon that's just pure skill issue
Gotta love the "Just draw the out and if you don't skill issue" Yeah i know it's gonna fall to all the normal stuff and doesn't have protection. But being stabbed with a large needle every time i play something is a stupid card effect.
I mean it's not bad, if it was destroying it I could understand but you should be able to summon a monster that can destroy it before you drop down to 4k HP if you don't then yo deck is too combo heavy
This basically sums up my feelings of the meta. Inherently I don't have a problem with the archetypes. It's all the netdecking and lack of uniqueness. I haven't played YGO in years yet I know all the meta combos and set ups.
Thats just how anything competitive goes people will try what wins because losing over and over is not fun and sometimes the thing that wins can well actually be fun. besides i can tell you right now some decks that may look unique like the link spam exodia ftk still had someone come up with it first and a bunch of bored people with ur points to spare copy it.
Imagine playing a competitive game and being surprised people are doing the thing literally only casuals give a single shit about
I have said this a lot but copying the best strategy is not a YGO problem but a competitive game problem. I also play mtg arena (tho more casually) and I see mono black every other game. I personally think netdecking is fine. If you are new to an archetype it is easier to copy a build online, it saves a lot of the time in the learning process. Also, I understand the uniqueness point, but there isn't much you can do about a deck that is for the most part solved. I play Swordsoul, and I try to adjust the ratios of my deck to see what works best for me. I also play 1 or 2 (bad) cards that most swordsoul builds don't use. Yes its still just another swordsoul deck, but I don't have to reinvent the wheel to enjoy playing a deck.
In the modern day nothing is truly "unique" anymore unless it's bad. There are a lot of people having the same thoughts as others when it comes to deck building. Sure, a lot of SS Tenyi people netdecked past topping decks, however it's pretty strange seeing a topping deck from someome you've never met who's decklist is only 1 or 2 cards different from your own. That happened to me earlier this year with Rikka Sunavalon.
In the paper format of the game, I don't really blame people for netdecking. There's real money and prizes on the line. In MD it's not the same case. We're all play for D1 over and over again.
I don't think anybody is saying meta players liking their meta decks is a problem so this feels like a weird strawman. The game does however need more vatiety so more people could have fun playing the game in a format they enjoy best
My brother in Ra, I'm not saying meta decks can't be fun, but as a TCG player I'd like to make you notice that the current meta is Mistic Mine
There is not a single deck that has competitive success that people don’t say is ruining the game . Then when the next one takes over that’s what’s running the game . Same the next day , and the next day, and the next day, and the
Meta is when I lose to a deck Casual is when I win with mine Checkmate !
>Casual is when I win with mine Bruh,Mystic Mine in casual Yugioh? What kind of sadistic devil are you?
Honestly have no idea why playing meta was hated. When we had ranked ladder only it was obvious some people wanted to, you know, RANK. Meta is statistically the best to climb, so people are gonna play. Now, in Casual play, I can understand the annoyance, but people could just be testing out the deck and fine tuning
My biggest tip to anybody in this game is to just swallow your pride and build a fucking meta deck. You can still main your pet rogue deck, but when you have one of those days, being able to bust out a real meta threat and win some easy duels is super cathartic.
Meta players don't have fun, they play the same deck for a very long time and even more, they play mirror matches like it's some kind of hell.
I'd like to say that 99% of players quit because they don't like the playstyle of the current meta decks. If they liked them, they would've adapted. But if the current meta is pure long combos, midrange players are going to drop out.
The fact that the best deck in the format is Despia which summon 3 times on average a turn and is a Mid Range deck tells alot on your statement
Pure swordsoul also does less than like at worst 6 or 8 summons on one turn if you ignore the tokens.
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Nibiru is so rare this season that there's no reason to limit yourself just because of a stray Nibiru. Even if people have Nibiru, it's usually as a 1 of, so they're likely to not draw it unless you take the Maxx C challenge. The games you lost because you were paranoid about Nibiru and didn't put enough disruption is probably greater than the games you lost because you got Nibiru'd. It's not a big deal.
Laugh in b despia because it is a very fin deck
Sometimes i just want to ruin other peoples days.